From thelist at lists.evolt.org  Mon Aug 12 00:02:00 2002
From: thelist at lists.evolt.org (Tip Harvester)
Date: Mon Aug 12 00:02:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Tip Harvest for the Week of Monday Aug 05, 2002
Message-ID: <200208120501.g7C51FZx006824@leo.evolt.org>

The tip harvest for the Week of Monday Aug 05, 2002 has been added
to the lists.evolt.org site.  Get it at:

   http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/show/c/Week-of-Mon-20020805.html

Week at a glance listing at:

   http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/week/c/Week-of-Mon-20020805.html

Search the tips at:

   http://lists.evolt.org/index.cfm/a/harvest/b/search/


Harvest Summary
---------------

Number of messages: 449
Number of tips    : 23

Tip Authors
-----------

aardvark (1)
Chris Blessing (1)
Daniel Medley (1)
Dave Cantrell (1)
David Kaufman (1)
Drew Shiel (1)
Erika Meyer (1)
Janet Nabring-Stager (1)
Jay Blanchard (1)
jeduthun (1)
jon steele (1)
Madhu Menon (1)
mark at mark.ac (1)
Nicole (1)
Pat Meeks (1)
R.Livsey (1)
Rob Sylvan (1)
Shashank Tripathi (1)
Simon Willison (1)
spinhead (1)
tony crockford (1)
Wade Armstrong (1)

Tip Types
---------

asp components, xmlhttp (1)
Credit cards (1)
Free XML Training Class (1)
how to behave as a customer service rep (1)
How to email a company (1)
HTML, forms and overlapping tags (1)
Javascript in multiple frameset environments (1)
learning css (1)
Linux Server (1)
PHP (1)
reset (2)
search engines (1)
testing (1)
TextPad workspaces (1)
useful resources (1)
user experience (1)
Working out problems (1)


From dbindel at austin.rr.com  Mon Aug 12 00:10:01 2002
From: dbindel at austin.rr.com (David Bindel)
Date: Mon Aug 12 00:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Trying to center using CSS
In-Reply-To: <MBBBKCIHDGAIONCKNKJJOECJCDAA.amy@rocky-hills.com>
Message-ID: <KFEDKCDLJCPGIDGACLAOAEJECAAA.dbindel@austin.rr.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amy Johnson
>
> I have embedded DIVS set up and am able to
> center things as I need to.  However, I can't center the primary
> DIV.  I would like it to center within different size screens, 17",
> 19", 21", etc.
>
> DIV.ht contains all of my web page.  So I want for
> DIV.ht, which is a set width, to always be centered in DIV.main.
> I don't think percentages will work for the left value of DIV.ht
> since it is a fixed width.  But left:auto doesn't work either.
> This seems like it should be obvious.  What am I missing?
>
> DIV.ht          {position: absolute;
>                 height: 550px;
>                 width: 600px;
>                 top: 70px;
>                 left:  auto;
>                 }


The CSS you need is as follows:

div.ht {
	width: 600px;
	height: 550px;
	margin-left: auto;
	margin-right: auto;
}

HTH,
David Bindel
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From lists at leto.co.nz  Mon Aug 12 00:16:01 2002
From: lists at leto.co.nz (Sarah Wedde)
Date: Mon Aug 12 00:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Trying to center using CSS
In-Reply-To: <MBBBKCIHDGAIONCKNKJJOECJCDAA.amy@rocky-hills.com>
Message-ID: <B97D9CDD.30D8%lists@leto.co.nz>

Amy,

I think it may be because you have an absolutely positioned div. You could
try -

DIV.ht { width: 600px;
         height: 550px;
         margin: 70px auto 0px auto;}

to get the same positioning.

Sarah



From axe at suburbia.com.au  Mon Aug 12 00:31:01 2002
From: axe at suburbia.com.au (Chris)
Date: Mon Aug 12 00:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] <FORM> Whitespace
Message-ID: <CIECIHOGKFJMEOBCJOMKGENACCAA.axe@suburbia.com.au>

Hello,

Is there any 'correct' way to avoid <form> & <input type='hidden'> from
adding whitespace to a given HTML doc?

On my page I have something along the lines of:

<div id="1">Some Heading</div>
<form action="process" method="post">
<input type="hidden" name="a" value="1" />
<input type="hidden" name="b" value="2" />
<table>
....
</table>
</form>

And the problem is between the <div> and the <table> I am seeing a large gap
where no gap was before I inserted the <form>.

Is there any way to prevent this?

Oh, and good to see thelist messages flowing again. :)

Regards,
Chris




From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug 12 01:14:01 2002
From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr)
Date: Mon Aug 12 01:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Running msxml
In-Reply-To: <000a01c24186$b8167da0$b1276844@beldamar>
Message-ID: <000001c241c7$210b9620$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>

How are you running msxml?
Are you trying to do an XSL conversion from the command prompt? If so
you need the MSXML command line program. You can download it from
Microsoft's web site. Otherwise you will need to providse a little more
information.

__________

Hi

I've downloaded the command line prompt (msxsl.exe) from Microsoft's
site.  Then gone to the command line and typed something like:

C:\xmlstuff xpath.xml xpath.xsl

Xmlstuff is a directory on my c drive, xpath.xml and the equivalent .xsl
file are the 2 files I want msxml to play with.  All I ever get back is:

'msxml' is not recoginized an an internal or external command, operable
program or batch file.

This happens on any file, trying to do any operation.

Thanks!

Francis






From szh at softhome.net  Mon Aug 12 01:27:45 2002
From: szh at softhome.net (Syed Zeeshan Haider)
Date: Mon Aug 12 01:27:45 2002
Subject: [thelist] Customizing E-Mail Link
Message-ID: <01a101c241c9$250df9a0$280987cb@haidersystem>

Hello Experts,
I just forgot the way to customizing mailto link. I looked in some books
but couldn't find.
How to customize a mailto link so that it opens a window for new mail
with subject and content already written?

Thank you,
Syed Zeeshan Haider.
http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/




From szh at softhome.net  Mon Aug 12 01:36:41 2002
From: szh at softhome.net (Syed Zeeshan Haider)
Date: Mon Aug 12 01:36:41 2002
Subject: [thelist] Line Break in Titles
References: <20020812013047.53886.qmail@web13508.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <019f01c241c9$1fb85040$280987cb@haidersystem>

From: "jon steele" <jjsteele22 at yahoo.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: August 12, 2002, Monday 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Line Break in Titles


> Alternative (js enabled only)
>
> <a href="file.html"
onmouseover="this.title='title\nwith\nbreak'">link2</a>

It worked very well. I love JS. What a language...
Thanks for the help.

Syed Zeeshan Haider.
http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/




From sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com  Mon Aug 12 01:43:01 2002
From: sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com (Sharon F. Malone)
Date: Mon Aug 12 01:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript on the fly ... not flying
References: <007501c24187$a8360c60$7398b2d1@oemcomputer> <002701c2419f$dc28ebb0$0201a8c0@yoda>
Message-ID: <001101c241c9$2bc41d60$7b9eb2d1@oemcomputer>

On Sunday, August 11, 2002 6:30 PM Ion wrote:

> The image is not relatively in the same place. You're working from a
> different directory (and 1 level deeper) than the original. You are also
> losing the background color by removing the stylesheet reference (I get
> my "remind-me" ugly color).

    No, I made an image subdirectory in the newhtml dir and copied all the images into it. So it's an identical setup (just 1 level deeper). Interesting. Testing in IE5.5, N6.2 and NN4.7, I get the correctly sized window  to display in which is the close window link and a white background ... and just the little square box with the red "x" (which is the major problem here).

    Could you tell me which browser/version you're using and if it's a Mac (re the icky background color you're getting?). I'm not even sure that it's a problem of determining which style sheet to include in the code (I deleted any reference to either one). Just experimenting, trying to figure out why the images won't display.

> > Boy, I'm in deep yogurt and really need some JS help. I took over a
> site to make various revisions and have a deadline of 8/20 to finish
> them all. Have a ~major~ problem with one page only, a page that calls
> images on the fly (in the lefthand column underneath the navigation). I
> can't get the images to display. Tried going with a simple openWindow
> function listing the width, height, etc. in the <head> then an <a href
> blah blah> in the body, but that doesn't resize the images.
> >
> > The original page is at: http://www.sur-sys.com
> >  and select Services from the menu.
> >
> > My revised page is at:
> http://www.sur-sys.com/newhtml/services_new.html
> >
> > The site pages had no DTD so I selected 4.01 Trans. Also I added an
> imported stylesheet as well as making a remote.js file. So I only left
> the JS that refers to this function in the <head> tag on the Services
> page. You'll notice in the JS on the Services page I removed the
> reference in the content to any style sheet (thinking the script got
> confused wondering which sheet to refer to) ... but that didn't do any
> good.
> >
> > ????????
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com
sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com



From mark at cyberfuddle.com  Mon Aug 12 01:47:13 2002
From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher)
Date: Mon Aug 12 01:47:13 2002
Subject: [thelist] Line Break in Titles
References: <008301c24144$5e059180$c50987cb@haidersystem> <002f01c2418d$f4d3a360$0201a8c0@yoda>
Message-ID: <3D5758C1.9040002@cyberfuddle.com>

lon.kraemer wrote:
>>Is it possible to add line breaks in the titles of links and images?
>
> Here's two ways I know of:
> #1 Using ASP.
> <% title="This title " & vbCrLf & "should break" %>
> <a href="file.html" title="<%= title %>">link1</a>

Won't that simply send option 2?

> #2 A hard return in your actual markup.
> <a href="file.html" title="This title
> should break
> twice">link2</a>

Which is actually a bug (AIUI) in Internet Explorer.  You'll notice that
(AFAICT) no other browser supports this.  Opera treats the line break as
a space, and Mozilla puts in ugly pipe thingies.

A line break shouldn't affect the title.


--
Mark Gallagher
Desperately attempting - and failing - to stay on topic since 1999
fuddleriffic - http://cyberfuddle.com/
blog - http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/



From sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com  Mon Aug 12 01:52:24 2002
From: sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com (Sharon F. Malone)
Date: Mon Aug 12 01:52:24 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript on the fly ... not flying
References: <007501c24187$a8360c60$7398b2d1@oemcomputer> <a05111b02b97c9b53f06e@[68.35.112.212]>
Message-ID: <001701c241ca$466ddec0$7b9eb2d1@oemcomputer>

On Sunday, August 11, 2002 3:54 PM Kid wrote:

> I found that many image rotating javascripts worked in IE or NS only.
>
> That could be the problem.  Another thing is some javascript code
> breaks if it line wraps.

    Don't think that's the problem. It is already a working script on the present site which I tested out in IE5.5, N6.2 and NN4.7. I just can't get it to work now. I essentially haven't even touched the script except to separate it from the rest of the scripting code on the current Services page (which code has nothing to do with this script from what I can tell) ... and all that code is now in a remote.js file. By the way, I tried this out leaving all the present scripts intact in the <head> tag, erasing the remote.js file from the <head>, etc. In other words, leaving it the same except taking out any reference to a .css file (which shouldn't affect calling the images, I think). Won't work.

    A real mystery at this point. I'm thinking of removing the DTD and seeing what happens.
>
> At 3:37 PM -0700 8/11/02, Sharon F. Malone wrote:
> >Have a ~major~ problem with one page only, a page that calls images
> >on the fly (in the lefthand column underneath the navigation). I
> >can't get the images to display.
>
>
> --



From szh at softhome.net  Mon Aug 12 01:56:40 2002
From: szh at softhome.net (Syed Zeeshan Haider)
Date: Mon Aug 12 01:56:40 2002
Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver 4: Layout Tables
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812022539.01fe2cb8@203.197.12.4>
Message-ID: <019b01c241c9$1838c200$280987cb@haidersystem>

From: "Madhu Menon" <webguru at vsnl.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: August 12, 2002, Monday 1:56 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Dreamweaver 4: Layout Tables


> Use fixed width cells? Or perhaps only for the columns where you don't
want
> the text to expand beyond a point.

I always use fixed width cells but it does not always work.

Syed Zeeshan Haider.
http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/




From kstevens89 at comcast.net  Mon Aug 12 02:03:01 2002
From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens)
Date: Mon Aug 12 02:03:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Customizing E-Mail Link
In-Reply-To: <01a101c241c9$250df9a0$280987cb@haidersystem>
References: <01a101c241c9$250df9a0$280987cb@haidersystem>
Message-ID: <a05111b03b97d0a41861f@[68.35.112.212]>

<a href="mailto:info at somestore.com?subject=Information Request&body=I'd like
more information on your product $product_name">Email</a> us for more
information about this product.

At 11:17 AM +0500 8/12/02, Syed Zeeshan Haider wrote:
>Hello Experts,
>I just forgot the way to customizing mailto link. I looked in some books
>but couldn't find.
>How to customize a mailto link so that it opens a window for new mail
>with subject and content already written?
>
>Thank you,
>Syed Zeeshan Haider.
>http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/
>
>
>--
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens

"Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man."
-Francis Bacon


From szh at softhome.net  Mon Aug 12 02:08:03 2002
From: szh at softhome.net (Syed Zeeshan Haider)
Date: Mon Aug 12 02:08:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver 4: Layout Tables
References: <NGBBIGGPFKHKBADDJGNOOEJBCFAA.webdad@tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <019c01c241c9$1a304c40$280987cb@haidersystem>

From: "Bob Boisvert" <webdad at tampabay.rr.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: August 12, 2002, Monday 2:58 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Dreamweaver 4: Layout Tables



> Have you tried setting the height of the <TD> in the properties panel?

Yes, but it does not always work. Works sometimes but mostly not.

>or tried to controlling it with CSS?

No, I didn't but now I wonder why I didn't think of it earlier. It has
solved the problem. Thanks to you.

>I don't usually have this problem when laying out table in Dreamweaver
4.

How do you avoid the problems? Do you use CSS for controling the
dimensions of cells?

>Are you by any chance using MX?

Not at all, man. I think new versions come as early as we (at least me)
have not become enough experts of older versions.

Thanks again, Bob.

Syed Zeeshan Haider.
http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/




From szh at softhome.net  Mon Aug 12 02:12:27 2002
From: szh at softhome.net (Syed Zeeshan Haider)
Date: Mon Aug 12 02:12:27 2002
Subject: [thelist] Line Break in Titles
References: <008301c24144$5e059180$c50987cb@haidersystem> <002f01c2418d$f4d3a360$0201a8c0@yoda>
Message-ID: <019e01c241c9$1de3de60$280987cb@haidersystem>

From: "lon.kraemer" <lwkraemer at directvinternet.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: August 12, 2002, Monday 4:22 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Line Break in Titles


> #1 Using ASP.
> <% title="This title " & vbCrLf & "should break" %>
> <a href="file.html" title="<%= title %>">link1</a>

Sorry, I don't know ASP.

> #2 A hard return in your actual markup.
> <a href="file.html" title="This title
> should break
> twice">link2</a>

Yes it worked very well. Thank you for the help.

Syed Zeeshan Haider.
http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/




From szh at softhome.net  Mon Aug 12 02:13:20 2002
From: szh at softhome.net (Syed Zeeshan Haider)
Date: Mon Aug 12 02:13:20 2002
Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver 4: Layout Tables
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812022539.01fe2cb8@203.197.12.4> <a05111b01b97c8ce28b39@[68.35.112.212]>
Message-ID: <019d01c241c9$1c0644c0$280987cb@haidersystem>

From: "Kid Stevens" <kstevens89 at comcast.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: August 12, 2002, Monday 2:55 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Dreamweaver 4: Layout Tables


> I set my cells with CSS.
>
> tbody.tricell {width: 460px
> }
> .fcell {width: 120px;
> }
> .scell {width: 140px;
> }
> .tcell {width: 220px;
> }

CSS has solved the problem. Thank you, Kid Stevens.

Thanks again!

Syed Zeeshan Haider.
http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/




From php at erasinar.com  Mon Aug 12 02:20:01 2002
From: php at erasinar.com (Wahyu Harsono)
Date: Mon Aug 12 02:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] dynamic dns server software?
References: <3D52E585.36FA2822@nlcnet.org>
Message-ID: <000b01c241cc$58bb5100$0400a8c0@bb>

Try DNS2GO ( Windows ), on http://www.deerfield.com

G'Luck

----- Original Message -----
From: "Benjamin C. Varadi" <bvaradi at nlcnet.org>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 4:41 AM
Subject: [thelist] dynamic dns server software?


> Had no luck with this on webdesign-l.  Y'all have any thoughts?
>
> -BEN
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> >> Anyone know what software exists to provide dynamic dns hosting
(y'know,
> >> like ods.org or dyndns.org)?  Web searches just show me a ton of
> >> providers.
>
> I guess I didn't phrase my question well enough.  I'm looking for
> software to *provide* dynamic service.  My understanding of how this
> works is that a client program sends a sort of "authenticated ping"
> periodically to the server, which checks the client IP address against
> Apache's DNS records & makes changes if necessary.
>
> I feel like this is probably more complex than it seems, though, and if
> turnkey or (ideally) open-source scripts existed to set up a server in
> this manner, I'd love to know about it.
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>




From webguru at vsnl.net  Mon Aug 12 02:24:24 2002
From: webguru at vsnl.net (Madhu Menon)
Date: Mon Aug 12 02:24:24 2002
Subject: [thelist] Customizing E-Mail Link
In-Reply-To: <01a101c241c9$250df9a0$280987cb@haidersystem>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812121939.01f53b50@203.197.12.4>

At 11:47 AM 12-08-02, Syed Zeeshan Haider wrote:
>How to customize a mailto link so that it opens a window for new mail
>with subject and content already written?

<a href="mailto:somebody at example?Subject=SubjectLine&Body=BodyText">Send me
email</a>

Will not work reliably across all systems and e-mail clients. Use a
server-side script to do this if you want reliability.

Regards,

Madhu

<<<   *   >>>
Madhu Menon
User Experience Consultant
e-mail: webguru at vsnl.net

Weblog: http://madman.weblogs.com



From kstevens89 at comcast.net  Mon Aug 12 02:29:01 2002
From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens)
Date: Mon Aug 12 02:29:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver 4: Layout Tables
In-Reply-To: <019b01c241c9$1838c200$280987cb@haidersystem>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812022539.01fe2cb8@203.197.12.4>
 <019b01c241c9$1838c200$280987cb@haidersystem>
Message-ID: <a05111b04b97d10c90f2f@[68.35.112.212]>

Depends on the browser and the OS and yes it still does break once
and awhile.  True CSS support is still a ways off.  By the time it
gets to be perfect someone will come along and make a mess by getting
a new standard going.

At 10:57 AM +0500 8/12/02, Syed Zeeshan Haider wrote:
>
>>  > Use fixed width cells? Or perhaps only for the columns where you don't
>>want
>>  > the text to expand beyond a point.
>
>I always use fixed width cells but it does not always work.
>
>Syed Zeeshan Haider.
>http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/


--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens

"Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man."
-Francis Bacon


From mark at cyberfuddle.com  Mon Aug 12 02:41:00 2002
From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher)
Date: Mon Aug 12 02:41:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Trying to center using CSS
References: <MBBBKCIHDGAIONCKNKJJOECJCDAA.amy@rocky-hills.com>
Message-ID: <3D5768A4.90404@cyberfuddle.com>

Amy Johnson wrote:
 > I am creating my first tableless site using CSS.  In general, I think
 >  it is going ok.  I have embedded DIVS set up and am able to center
 > things as I need to.  However, I can't center the primary DIV.  I
 > would like it to center within different size screens, 17", 19", 21",
 >  etc.
 >
 > Below is some of my CSS code.  DIV.main is meant to be the entire
 > screen.  DIV.ht contains all of my web page.  So I want for DIV.ht,
 > which is a set width, to always be centered in DIV.main.  I don't
 > think percentages will work for the left value of DIV.ht since it is
 > a fixed width.  But left:auto doesn't work either.  This seems like
 > it should be obvious.  What am I missing?

First off, why do they have fixed heights?  Why does DIV.main's height:
statement give no unit for its value?  Why is DIV.main positioned
absolutely?  Why have you set a background-color, but no foreground
color?  Sorry if that seems too inquisitve, but if this is your first
time, it's good to start thinking of these issues straight away :-).  Oh
yeah, why are .main and .ht classes instead of ids?

Try this:

body {
   margin: 0;
   padding: 0;
}

div.main {
   background-color: black;
   color: white;
   width: 100%;
   margin: 0;
   text-align: center;
}

div.ht {
   height: 550px;
   width: 600px;
   margin-top: 70px;
}

That should work.  Here the "text-align: center;" statement comes into
play, as div.ht being relatively positioned means that it can, in fact,
be affected by the text-alignment of its container element (presumably
div.main).

You can also try:

div.main {
   background-color: black;
   color: white;
   position: absolute;
   top: 0px;
   right: 0px;
   bottom: 0px;
   left: 0px;
   width: 100%;
   text-align: center;
}

div.ht {
   position: absolute;
   top: 70px;
   width: 600px;
   height: 550px;
   margin: auto;
}

Here the "margin: auto;" statement tells the browser "automatically
calculate symmetrical values for the margin".

 > DIV.main        {background-color: black; position: absolute; height:
 >  700; width: 100%; top: 0px; bottom: 0px; left: 0px; right: 0px;
 > text-align: center; }
 >
 > DIV.ht          {position: absolute; height: 550px; width: 600px;
 > top: 70px; left:  auto; }

In future, it'd be easier to see this sort of thing if you posted a URL
- that way we can *see* what the problem is, but can still find the
stylesheet if need be :-)


<tip type="structuring CSS" author="Mark Gallagher" reason="I'm sure I
owe somewhere">
The order in which you place each statement within an element's
definition in your CSS is not particularly important (unless you're
trying to take advantage of cascades within an element, which is not
very useful[0]), but it can make it easier to find stuff.  Personally, I
usually structure my definitions like so:

element {
   color/background statements;
   positional statements (position, top, right, bottom, left);
   width/height statements;
   alignment statements (float, text-align, vertical-align);
   margin/padding statements;
   other non-fonty statements;
   border statements;
   font-related matters[1] (font-size, font-style, font-weight,
   font-family);
}

This way if I'm looking for information on what colours I've defined, I
can look at the top of each definition.  Fonts, the bottom, and so on.

[0] Except where exploiting browser bugs, of course.
[1] IE3 has a bug that occurs whenever font-family is included in a
     definition, but not as the very last statement. Unfortunately, I
     don't remember what it is exactly.
</tip>

--
Mark Gallagher
Desperately attempting - and failing - to stay on topic since 1999
fuddleriffic - http://cyberfuddle.com/
blog - http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Mon Aug 12 02:48:00 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Mon Aug 12 02:48:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript on the fly ... not flying
In-Reply-To: <007501c24187$a8360c60$7398b2d1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPEEPJGJAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

sharon,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Sharon F. Malone
>
> My revised page is at:
> http://www.sur-sys.com/newhtml/services_new.html
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

the first step to debugging this setup is to view the source of the document in the popup.  if you're using ie, also check the properties for the image and the properties for the document.  this will give you an idea of whether or not things are being setup like you expect.  clicking the top image, here's what i get:

view-source:

<html> <head> <title> Survey Systems, Inc. - Form Sample </title> </head><body> <center> <p> <img src='images/formdesign_l.gif' name='sample' border='0'> <br><a href='javascript:opener.closeImgWindow()'>Close this window</a> </p> </center></body> </html>

image properties:

http://www.sur-sys.com/newhtml/images/formdesign_l.gif

page properties:

http://www.sur-sys.com/newhtml/services_new.html

i can't view the contents of the /newhtml/images directory so i can't tell if that image actually exists, but with a different name, or not.

you could save yourself a lot of headache by using root relative references instead.  simply precede the src path with a leading slash.  that'll force the browser to look in the /images directory instead.

now, some general comments about the site and the scripting.

you need to class the links around the images or remove any transparency placed on the images wrapped with links.  the way it is now there's an ugly background color change when hovering over the images for the popup links.

the scripting for the popups is needlessly keeping non-javascript users from viewing the large images.  take a look at the following article to some ideas on how to avoid this.

Links & JavaScript Living Together in Harmony
http://www.evolt.org/article/thelist/17/20938/

now, to apply the concepts in the article above to your specific situation, this is what i'd do.

1)  move the makeImgWindow() function call from
    the href attribute to the onclick event
    handler.

2)  add a "return false" to the onclick event
    handler after the makeImgWindow() function
    call to cancel the href for javascript
    enabled browsers.

3)  add a target attribute to the <a> tag.

4)  change the href attribute value to the
    path to the image that will be shown in the
    popup.

5)  change the makeImgWindow() function call
    so the image name isn't hardcoded, instead
    using this.href.

6)  alter the makeImgWindow() function so it
    doesn't have a partially hardcoded path to
    the image to be displayed in the popup.

the result will be a more flexible function, a link that non-javascript users can use to view the large image, and a function call in the <a> tag that'll be easier to maintain later on.

the altered makeImgWindow() function:

function makeImgWindow(imgPath, heading)
{
  // Assemble content for the new window.
  content = '<html><head><title>Survey Systems, Inc. - '
          + heading + '</title></head><body><center><p>'
          + '<img src="' + imgPath + '" name="sample"'
          + ' border="0"><br><a'
          + ' href="javascript:opener.closeImgWindow()"'
          + '>Close this window</a></p></center>'
          + '</body></html>';
  // If imgWindow does not exist or is closed, define
  // imgWindow as a new window.
  if(!imgWindow || imgWindow.closed)
  {
    imgWindow = window.open('', '', 'width=525,height=700');
  }
  else
  {
    // If the imgWindow already exists, bring it to
    // the front.
    imgWindow.focus();
  }
  // Write the content to the new window.
  imgWindow.document.write(content)
  // End writing content.
  imgWindow.document.close();
}

an example altered <a> tag:

<a href="/images/formdesign_l.gif"
   target="_blank"
   onclick="makeImgWindow(this.href, 'Form Design'); return false"
>

the following tip will also prove useful i hope.

<tip type="JavaScript" author=".jeff">

when building strings in javascript, force yourself to wrap them with single-quotes.  when you end up writing out long strings of html you'll be glad you did.  so, instead of this:

content = "<a href='javascript:opener.closeImgWindow()'>Close this window</a>"

you'll end up with this:

content = '<a href="javascript:opener.closeImgWindow()">Close this window</a>';

now the html will be more recognizable and you won't have to bother with nearly as much quote escaping.

</tip>

good luck,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From mark at cyberfuddle.com  Mon Aug 12 02:54:41 2002
From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher)
Date: Mon Aug 12 02:54:41 2002
Subject: [thelist] Customizing E-Mail Link
References: <01a101c241c9$250df9a0$280987cb@haidersystem> <a05111b03b97d0a41861f@[68.35.112.212]>
Message-ID: <3D5769F8.3000005@cyberfuddle.com>

Kid Stevens wrote:
> <a href="mailto:info at somestore.com?subject=Information Request&body=I'd
> like
> more information on your product $product_name">Email</a> us for more
> information about this product.

<http://www.htmlhelp.com/faq/html/all.html#mailto-subject>
<http://www.vortex-webdesign.com/help/faq.htm#mailtosubject>
<http://sbrady.com/hotsource/faqs/alt-html-faq.html#7>

--
Mark Gallagher
Desperately attempting - and failing - to stay on topic since 1999
fuddleriffic - http://cyberfuddle.com/
blog - http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/



From sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com  Mon Aug 12 02:58:01 2002
From: sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com (Sharon F. Malone)
Date: Mon Aug 12 02:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript on the fly ... not flying - SOLUTION sorta and question
References: <007501c24187$a8360c60$7398b2d1@oemcomputer> <a05111b02b97c9b53f06e@[68.35.112.212]> <001701c241ca$466ddec0$7b9eb2d1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <00ae01c241d5$78432120$7b9eb2d1@oemcomputer>

I changed the name of my test file (services_new.html) back to services.html and uploaded it quickly to the site early this morn. Considering the hour, I thought 'twould be a good time to do this. Well, voila, on the fly ~is~ flying again. So it did have something to do with both the html and images dir files being situated at the root level rather than 1 level down. How confusing. Seems the calling is being done from the root level only.

It's because I don't understand how these files are being generated. As an example, the code below creates a MUCH bigger version of the formdesign.gif image (whose size is 200x245). When I first looked in the Images dir I couldn't find a formdesign_I.gif or any of its fellow _I gifs that end up being called. No such animals! Are they lurking somewhere?

<a href="javascript:makeImgWindow('formdesign_l.gif','Form Design')">

Could someone explain how this works?

And thanks for your help, Ion and Kid.

Best,
Sharon

> On Sunday, August 11, 2002 3:54 PM Kid wrote:
>
> > I found that many image rotating javascripts worked in IE or NS only.
> >
> > That could be the problem.  Another thing is some javascript code
> > breaks if it line wraps.
>
>     Don't think that's the problem. It is already a working script on the present site which I tested out in IE5.5, N6.2 and NN4.7. I just can't get it to work now. I essentially haven't even touched the script except to separate it from the rest of the scripting code on the current Services page (which code has nothing to do with this script from what I can tell) ... and all that code is now in a remote.js file. By the way, I tried this out leaving all the present scripts intact in the <head> tag, erasing the remote.js file from the <head>, etc. In other words, leaving it the same except taking out any reference to a .css file (which shouldn't affect calling the images, I think). Won't work.
>
>     A real mystery at this point. I'm thinking of removing the DTD and seeing what happens.
> >
> > At 3:37 PM -0700 8/11/02, Sharon F. Malone wrote:
> > >Have a ~major~ problem with one page only, a page that calls images
> > >on the fly (in the lefthand column underneath the navigation). I
> > >can't get the images to display.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com
sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com



From sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com  Mon Aug 12 03:45:01 2002
From: sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com (Sharon F. Malone)
Date: Mon Aug 12 03:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript on the fly ... not flying -  reply to Jeff
References: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPEEPJGJAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <00fc01c241db$f6d6a2e0$7b9eb2d1@oemcomputer>

On: Monday, August 12, 2002 12:48 AM, Jeff wrote:

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > From: Sharon F. Malone
> >
> > My revised page is at:
> > http://www.sur-sys.com/newhtml/services_new.html
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
[snippet]

    I just sent a "SOLVED sorta" message relating how I got it to work at the first level setup. I was working at the second level (newhtml dir with accompanying Images subdir). And am still wondering why it didn't work at the 2nd level (an exact replication of the 1st level).
>
> <html> <head> <title> Survey Systems, Inc. - Form Sample </title> </head><body> <center> <p> <img src='images/formdesign_l.gif' name='sample' border='0'> <br><a href='javascript:opener.closeImgWindow()'>Close this window</a> </p> </center></body> </html>

    This brings up something else. I removed the Content instruction on the first line of the script referring to a stylesheet in the original coding. That's because I created an additional css file as an import file. I decided to leave out any CSS reference because some browsers would not be able to read the stylesheet ... that is, unless I could name both style sheets here. But, wasn't sure how to write that correctly in a JS context.

    As the present site stands now, this is the first line of the Content:
// Assemble content for the new window.
 content = "<html> <head> <link rel='stylesheet' type='text/css' href='ssi_style.css'>"

    So if I wanted to refer to both here, would that be:

 content = "<html> <head> <link rel='stylesheet' type='text/css' href='ssi_style.css'> <style type='text/css' media='all'>@import url('ssi_styleimport.css');</style>"

> i can't view the contents of the /newhtml/images directory so i can't tell if that image actually exists, but with a different name, or not.

    That's the mystery to me. No, the formdesign_I.gif does not exist. However, the formdesign.gif does.

> you could save yourself a lot of headache by using root relative references instead.  simply precede the src path with a leading slash.  that'll force the browser to look in the /images directory instead.

    Thanks.

> now, some general comments about the site and the scripting.
>
> you need to class the links around the images or remove any transparency placed on the images wrapped with links.  the way it is now there's an ugly background color change when hovering over the images for the popup links.

    Yes, thanks. I'll do that. Noticed that too, but wanted to get this first problem solved (the most essential one!!!).
>
> the scripting for the popups is needlessly keeping non-javascript users from viewing the large images.  take a look at the following article to some ideas on how to avoid this.

    Yes, noticed that too, have done that an other sites, and will correct that. This is a site I just took over so I decided to leave the present scripting untouched until I could get it working again!!!
>
> now, to apply the concepts in the article above to your specific situation, this is what i'd do.

    And, thank you ~so~ much for the code steps you listed (and I snipped) and leading me through this.

Best,
Sharon
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon F. Malone
"web design and Internet writing services"
http://www.24caratdesign.com
sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com



From Ashok at MagicalKenya.com  Mon Aug 12 05:18:01 2002
From: Ashok at MagicalKenya.com (Ashok at MagicalKenya.com)
Date: Mon Aug 12 05:18:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Page Render condition
Message-ID: <OF152E00F6.5F6F194A-ON43256C13.00382DB3@symphony.co.ke>

You could try doing a 'soft' reload of your page when its load ing by using
the <body> onLoad event ,
something like :

<body onLoad="history.go(0);">

HTH
Ashok

------
Ashok Hariharan
http://www.hazard0us.org
------







From kris at midtempo.net  Mon Aug 12 05:43:01 2002
From: kris at midtempo.net (kris burford)
Date: Mon Aug 12 05:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] css to print landscape
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020812113524.016b9440@mail.btinternet.com>

hi all,

is there a way you can set a print stylesheet to output as landscape?

tia

kris


From steve.cook at evitbe.com  Mon Aug 12 06:08:01 2002
From: steve.cook at evitbe.com (Steve Cook)
Date: Mon Aug 12 06:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] css to print landscape
Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D523078A3@SBS>

http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-CSS2-19980512/page.html#page-size-prop

That should answer your question. I'm not sure what browser support is like
for these properties though.


.steve


-------------------------------------
 Cookstour - http://www.cookstour.org
-------------------------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: kris burford [mailto:kris at midtempo.net]
> Sent: den 12 augusti 2002 12:40
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] css to print landscape
>
>
> hi all,
>
> is there a way you can set a print stylesheet to output as landscape?
>
> tia
>


From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Mon Aug 12 06:16:01 2002
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Mon Aug 12 06:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Data Protection Act
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020812113524.016b9440@mail.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAECEAIEOAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>

Hi all

As our webservers are now UK based we feel we need to make our clients aware
of the Data Protection Act and it's impact on them.  To this end I've
written a brief primer to the subject and was hoping for some feedback on
it.

http://www.anansi.co.uk/dpa.html

Cheers in advance

Norman



From jyee at vt.edu  Mon Aug 12 06:37:00 2002
From: jyee at vt.edu (Jackson Yee)
Date: Mon Aug 12 06:37:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] <FORM> Whitespace
Message-ID: <3D57E258@zathras>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris" <axe at suburbia.com.au>
To: "Thelist" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 01:30
Subject: [thelist] <FORM> Whitespace


> Is there any 'correct' way to avoid <form> & <input type='hidden'> from
> adding whitespace to a given HTML doc?

Have you tried adding the CSS styles

form
{
  margin: 0px;
  padding: 0px;
}

to the page?  <form> is a block-level element like <p> and <h1>, so it might
come with default margins.

Regards,
Jackson Yee
jyee at vt.edu
http://www.jacksonyee.com/



From Ashok at MagicalKenya.com  Mon Aug 12 06:43:01 2002
From: Ashok at MagicalKenya.com (Ashok at MagicalKenya.com)
Date: Mon Aug 12 06:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Running msxml
Message-ID: <OFBAFCA170.37B4E7C8-ON43256C13.003FC68D@symphony.co.ke>

Msxsl.exe makes use of the msxml4.dll component (part of the MSXML parser)
...
you execute it like :

c:\> msxsl.exe file.xml file.xsl ....

Do you have the MSXML parser installed on your computer ?

------
Ashok Hariharan
http://www.hazard0us.org
------





From webdad at tampabay.rr.com  Mon Aug 12 07:36:01 2002
From: webdad at tampabay.rr.com (Bob Boisvert)
Date: Mon Aug 12 07:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver 4: Layout Tables
In-Reply-To: <019c01c241c9$1a304c40$280987cb@haidersystem>
Message-ID: <NGBBIGGPFKHKBADDJGNOCEKBCFAA.webdad@tampabay.rr.com>

Syed Zeeshan Haider wrote:

<snip>

How do you avoid the problems? Do you use CSS for controling the
dimensions of cells?

</snip>

Make sure you have an &nbsp; in the cell to keep it open.

<table>
<tr>
<td>&nbsp;</td>
</tr>
</table>

I do use CSS occasionally.

HTH
Bob




From adhawan at balaram.com  Mon Aug 12 08:29:01 2002
From: adhawan at balaram.com (Amit Dhawan)
Date: Mon Aug 12 08:29:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Query on Internet Explorer Browser
Message-ID: <000e01c241c2$4d0b4400$0200a8c0@server3.com>

Hi there,

I would really appreciate if you could answer my query.

Whenever I view an image in Internet Explorer Browser version 6.0, it
appears to be blurred. Whereas the same image appears absolutely perfect
under Internet Explorer Browser version 5.0 or Internet Explorer Browser
version 5.5. I am using 800X600 pixels as the resolution to view the
results. What could be the reason for the difference in the results in two
different versions of the same browser?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Amit Dhawan
Software Engineer.




From david_kutcher at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 12 08:47:01 2002
From: david_kutcher at hotmail.com (David Kutcher)
Date: Mon Aug 12 08:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] MS Action Pack
Message-ID: <LAW2-OE22cew8k69RKL00003d6f@hotmail.com>

So I've been looking into legitimizing some of the software I've been using
for "testing purposes" and I came across Microsoft's Action Pack for $299

http://members.microsoft.com/partner/SalesMarketing/partnermarket/actionpack
/actionpack_standard.aspx

This pack gives you licenses as follows for 1 yr:

Product Title, Number Of Licenses, Number of Client Access Licenses


Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server, 1, 5

Microsoft Exchange 2000 Enterprise Server, 1, 5

Microsoft SQL Server 2000, 1, 5

Microsoft Small Business Server 2000, 1, 5

Microsoft Internet Security and Acceleration Server, 1

Microsoft Mobile Information Server 2002, 1

Microsoft SharePoint Portal Server 2001, 1, 5

Microsoft Windows XP Professional, 5

Microsoft Office XP Professional with FrontPage, 5

Microsoft Visio 2002, 5

Microsoft Project 2000, 5

Microsoft Publisher 2002, 5

Microsoft MapPoint 2002, 5

Have any of you used this service from MS? Besides going open source, have
any of you found cost-effective alternatives (like buying licenses on ebay)?

Thank you,

David



From chris at webbtech.co.uk  Mon Aug 12 08:54:01 2002
From: chris at webbtech.co.uk (Chris Marsh)
Date: Mon Aug 12 08:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Web Hosting
Message-ID: <000801c24207$8a2ec380$effea8c0@development.idlenet.com>

Dear all

Firstly, apologies if I caused any annoying bounce mayhem some time ago.
I found myself unable to access the web at all, and lost my domain to
boot.

Secondly, I have a client that is looking for hosting in the UK. They
need a SQLServer database, ASP, and an admin console that allows them to
create user accounts and modify permissions on files and directories
accordingly. Any recommendations would be gratefully received.

TIA

Regards

Chris Marsh




From cd-ml at aardvark.net.au  Mon Aug 12 09:00:01 2002
From: cd-ml at aardvark.net.au (Craig)
Date: Mon Aug 12 09:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Query on Internet Explorer Browser
References: <000e01c241c2$4d0b4400$0200a8c0@server3.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c24208$4f5ef530$370302c0@max1>

IE might be resizing it. To turn it off, in Internet Options, under
Multimedia, uncheck 'Enable Automatic Image Resizing'.

Craig.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Amit Dhawan" <adhawan at balaram.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 3:07 PM
Subject: [thelist] Query on Internet Explorer Browser


> Hi there,
>
> I would really appreciate if you could answer my query.
>
> Whenever I view an image in Internet Explorer Browser version 6.0, it
> appears to be blurred. Whereas the same image appears absolutely perfect
> under Internet Explorer Browser version 5.0 or Internet Explorer Browser
> version 5.5. I am using 800X600 pixels as the resolution to view the
> results. What could be the reason for the difference in the results in two
> different versions of the same browser?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Regards,
>
> Amit Dhawan
> Software Engineer.
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From eric.d.means at boeing.com  Mon Aug 12 09:19:01 2002
From: eric.d.means at boeing.com (Means, Eric D)
Date: Mon Aug 12 09:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Query on Internet Explorer Browser
Message-ID: <9CFB687ADA93234DB835E8E4CA98B92803D6C6D5@XCH-STL-07.mw.nos.boeing.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: Amit Dhawan [mailto:adhawan at balaram.com]
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 12:37 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Query on Internet Explorer Browser

> Whenever I view an image in Internet Explorer Browser version 6.0, it
> appears to be blurred. Whereas the same image appears absolutely perfect
> under Internet Explorer Browser version 5.0 or Internet Explorer Browser
> version 5.5. I am using 800X600 pixels as the resolution to view the
> results. What could be the reason for the difference in the results in two
> different versions of the same browser?

The images may have been shrunk:
IE 6.0 automatically resizes images so that they fit in the current window
size.  If you hover over the image with your mouse, a small toolbar and a
button should appear (the tool bar in the top left, the button in the bottom
right of the image).  If you click on the button in the bottom right, the
image will return to its actual size.  (You can turn off this behavior in
Tools->Options->Advanced, IIRC.)


From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Mon Aug 12 09:27:45 2002
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Mon Aug 12 09:27:45 2002
Subject: [thelist] Query on Internet Explorer Browser
In-Reply-To: <000b01c24208$4f5ef530$370302c0@max1>
References: <000e01c241c2$4d0b4400$0200a8c0@server3.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020812092340.01a4fd78@mail.imaginuity.com>

At 08:57 AM 8/12/2002, Craig wrote:
>IE might be resizing it. To turn it off, in Internet Options, under
>Multimedia, uncheck 'Enable Automatic Image Resizing'.

<tip type="MSIE Meta Tags" author="Ben Dyer">
To disable this behavior for images on your page, add in this <meta> tag:

<meta http-equiv="Autosize" content="Off" />

and it will supress that behavior for any images on the page (but,
obviously, not if you link directly to an image).
</tip>

--Ben


Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive
http://www.imaginuity.com/

Not an Emergency: "AudioGalaxy doesn't work anymore."
Emergency: "The server is on fire, bring the extinguisher!"
Please adjust your e-mail priorities accordingly.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
         http://www.radicalbender.com/     http://www.evolt.org/



From VHeilman at eAngler.com  Mon Aug 12 09:30:01 2002
From: VHeilman at eAngler.com (Vince Heilman)
Date: Mon Aug 12 09:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] css to print landscape
Message-ID: <D39757C7453DD411A08E00508BD6A3EC0615EBA5@EA_MAIL>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]

<style>
	@PAGE landscape	{size: LANDSCAPE;}
	TABLE 		{PAGE: landscape;}
</style>

This is from the "CORE CSS" book, but it also says that this is not
supported yet in either Netscape or IE. I've tried it for applications in
both NN6 & IE6 with no luck.

-Vince



> -----Original Message-----
> From: kris burford [mailto:kris at midtempo.net]
> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 6:40 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] css to print landscape
>
>
> hi all,
>
> is there a way you can set a print stylesheet to output as landscape?
>
> tia
>
> kris
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>


From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 12 09:32:45 2002
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Mon Aug 12 09:32:45 2002
Subject: [thelist] <FORM> Whitespace
In-Reply-To: <CIECIHOGKFJMEOBCJOMKGENACCAA.axe@suburbia.com.au>
Message-ID: <20020812142837.80474.qmail@web13506.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Chris <axe at suburbia.com.au> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Is there any 'correct' way to avoid <form> & <input type='hidden'> from
> adding whitespace to a given HTML doc?
>
> On my page I have something along the lines of:
>
> <div id="1">Some Heading</div>
> <form action="process" method="post">
> <input type="hidden" name="a" value="1" />
> <input type="hidden" name="b" value="2" />
> <table>
> ....
> </table>
> </form>
>
> And the problem is between the <div> and the <table> I am seeing a large gap
> where no gap was before I inserted the <form>.
>
> Is there any way to prevent this?

That is a margin problem with respect to the form tag.

<form action="process" method="post" style="margin:0px">

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 12 10:03:01 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Aug 12 10:03:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] N6 bug -- form labels overlapping form fields
Message-ID: <200208121501.g7CF1kB4022139@leo.evolt.org>

on this page:
http://lenderconsulting.com/order_form/
(please don't fill out the form, there's no reason to for this)

in some versions of Netscape (so far, not 6.01, 6.2, or mozilla 1.0)
the form labels overlaps the form fields -- or rather sit behind them
a bit... as if all the text was pushed to the right 30px or so... the
page is valid HTML 4.01 Transitional and valid CSS...

i cannot reproduce it, but i have seen this before... i was convinced
it's a bug, and know i had heard of it as one, but can't find the
documentation i need to prove it...

looking to see if anyone with N6 can reproduce it, and let me know
what version they have... then i have to get that version and start
hacking away...


--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035


From edc at wnc.quik.co.nz  Mon Aug 12 10:11:13 2002
From: edc at wnc.quik.co.nz (michael ensor)
Date: Mon Aug 12 10:11:13 2002
Subject: [thelist] css to print landscape
References: <D39757C7453DD411A08E00508BD6A3EC0615EBA5@EA_MAIL>
Message-ID: <014901c24211$a8a72a00$246237d2@oemcomputer>

Use the media attributes in CSS, check out this:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html14/
hth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Heilman" <VHeilman at eAngler.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 2:24 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] css to print landscape


> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>
> <style>
> @PAGE landscape {size: LANDSCAPE;}
> TABLE {PAGE: landscape;}
> </style>
>
> This is from the "CORE CSS" book, but it also says that this is not
> supported yet in either Netscape or IE. I've tried it for applications in
> both NN6 & IE6 with no luck.
>
> -Vince
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: kris burford [mailto:kris at midtempo.net]
> > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 6:40 AM
> > To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> > Subject: [thelist] css to print landscape
> >
> >
> > hi all,
> >
> > is there a way you can set a print stylesheet to output as landscape?
> >
> > tia
> >
> > kris
> > --
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
> >
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 2/08/02


From brad at beldamar.com  Mon Aug 12 10:15:21 2002
From: brad at beldamar.com (Brad Miller)
Date: Mon Aug 12 10:15:21 2002
Subject: [thelist] Running msxml
In-Reply-To: <000001c241c7$210b9620$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>
Message-ID: <000201c2420f$9a7a1570$b1276844@beldamar>

First off you need to call the program properly.
>From your command prompt (where ever the fies reside) you should type:
msxsl xpath.xml xpath.xsl -o output.html

Notice the "-o output.html" This tells the parser what your output is.
Without that it won't know what to do with the transformation. You can get a
list of all the switches for MSXSL here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/Dnxslgen/ht
ml/msxsl.asp

If you are typing this in correctly and still getting the error then it
sounds like you don't have the MSXML 4.0 parser installed. The MSXSL command
line program requires msxml4.dll which can be obtained from this link.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/default.asp?url=/downloads/sample.asp?ur
l=/msdn-files/027/001/766/msdncompositedoc.xml

Watch for wrappig on that URL.

Brad Miller
www.beldamar.com
www.x-etc.com
brad at beldamar.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A virus in a document is OK
(provided the DTD allows it)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From AWilliams at rfbd.org  Mon Aug 12 11:07:01 2002
From: AWilliams at rfbd.org (Williams, Alice)
Date: Mon Aug 12 11:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Web Hosting
Message-ID: <1819AC6AEA6DFE41B2406903CB5674670132C166@20SEXCH1.RFBD.org>

--
Hi Chris,
Check out azc.com, I'm using it for a site and can access file directories, upload files and set permissions, setting permissions may have some limit on number of accounts but it's a start.
Thanks
Alice

	-----Original Message-----
	From: Chris Marsh [mailto:chris at webbtech.co.uk]
	Sent: Mon 8/12/2002 9:52 AM
	To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
	Cc:
	Subject: [thelist] Web Hosting



	Dear all

	Firstly, apologies if I caused any annoying bounce mayhem some time ago.
	I found myself unable to access the web at all, and lost my domain to
	boot.

	Secondly, I have a client that is looking for hosting in the UK. They
	need a SQLServer database, ASP, and an admin console that allows them to
	create user accounts and modify permissions on files and directories
	accordingly. Any recommendations would be gratefully received.

	TIA

	Regards

	Chris Marsh


	--
	For unsubscribe and other options, including
	the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
	http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


--
[ winmail.dat was deleted, please don't send attachments with your message. ]


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 12 11:19:14 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Mon Aug 12 11:19:14 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript on the fly ... not flying
In-Reply-To: <001701c241ca$466ddec0$7b9eb2d1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <20020812161328.48208.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>

Sharon,

Not sure if you solved this yet, but when I run into problems like
this I take a "Back to basics" approach.

I pull the javascript out and place it in a new document, and put
anything its supposed to effect in as well - a simple skeleton
document, no css, no nothing else. But in the DTD you want to use.

Clean the code up and format it the way it should be.

Then go from there, I find I make much better progress this way. Then
you can add in elements and find the problem.

Tom
--- "Sharon F. Malone" <sfmalo at 24caratdesign.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, August 11, 2002 3:54 PM Kid wrote:
>
> > I found that many image rotating javascripts worked in IE or NS
> only.
> >
> > That could be the problem.  Another thing is some javascript code
> > breaks if it line wraps.
>
>     Don't think that's the problem. It is already a working script
> on the present site which I tested out in IE5.5, N6.2 and NN4.7. I
> just can't get it to work now. I essentially haven't even touched
> the script except to separate it from the rest of the scripting
> code on the current Services page (which code has nothing to do
> with this script from what I can tell) ... and all that code is now
> in a remote.js file. By the way, I tried this out leaving all the
> present scripts intact in the <head> tag, erasing the remote.js
> file from the <head>, etc. In other words, leaving it the same
> except taking out any reference to a .css file (which shouldn't
> affect calling the images, I think). Won't work.
>
>     A real mystery at this point. I'm thinking of removing the DTD
> and seeing what happens.
> >
> > At 3:37 PM -0700 8/11/02, Sharon F. Malone wrote:
> > >Have a ~major~ problem with one page only, a page that calls
> images
> > >on the fly (in the lefthand column underneath the navigation). I
> > >can't get the images to display.
> >
> >
> > --
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov  Mon Aug 12 11:27:05 2002
From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov (Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov)
Date: Mon Aug 12 11:27:05 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS max-width question.
Message-ID: <C6B2C319C76C7A498CC6AE908EAEC5C3EA23F0@apexch10.rl.gov>

All,

I'm designing my first site of any considerable size since I first started
frequenting evolt/thelist, and I'm trying to get a table-free layout
going...

I want my site to be wrapped in a centered box no wider than 800px. (I'm
developing this on a 1600x1200 flatscreen, so I'm keenly aware of how
unreadable text gets when the lines become longer). I want the box to size
to less than 800px if the browser window gets smaller (i.e. if the user
doesn't like to browse fullscreen or has a lower-res display -- 800x600,
640x480).

"max-width: 800px;" works beautifully in Mozilla -- but in IE, it lets the
site expand indefinitely, allowing the lines of text to become almost
unreadably long in higher resolutions.

"width: 800px;" stops it from expanding, but also constrains it so that it
doesn't contract properly in lower resolutions.

"width: 75%;" makes it too wide for high resolutions and too narrow at low
resolutions.

Any suggestions? I'm sure this is a common quandary..

--
Jonathan McPherson, LMIT/SD&I
Software Engineer & Web Systems Analyst
email / jonathan_a_mcpherson at rl dot gov


From contact at hepi.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Aug 12 11:41:01 2002
From: contact at hepi.fsnet.co.uk (Jason Hepi)
Date: Mon Aug 12 11:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Web Hosting
In-Reply-To: <000801c24207$8a2ec380$effea8c0@development.idlenet.com>
Message-ID: <ICEPJABPMPGHLICPJCHFKEMBCBAA.contact@hepi.fsnet.co.uk>

Chris wrote :

> I have a client that is looking for hosting in the UK. They
> need a SQLServer database, ASP, and an admin console that allows them to
> create user accounts and modify permissions on files and directories
> accordingly. Any recommendations would be gratefully received.

Chris,

The best hosting package I have been able to find is at www.catalyst2.com.
They really are very good - ASP, SQL2000, IIS5, MSXML, Register Custom DLL,
.Net,  mySQL, PHP4, Perl, CGI, lots of email accounts, secure SSL folders
and 5000mb packages.

Also - if there is a feature that you want and it isn't part of a package I
think they'll generally try to sort it out for you.

Jason.




From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 12 11:58:01 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Aug 12 11:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS max-width question.
In-Reply-To: <C6B2C319C76C7A498CC6AE908EAEC5C3EA23F0@apexch10.rl.gov>
Message-ID: <200208121656.g7CGuaB4024186@leo.evolt.org>

> From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov
[...]
> "max-width: 800px;" works beautifully in Mozilla -- but in IE, it lets
> the site expand indefinitely, allowing the lines of text to become
> almost unreadably long in higher resolutions.
[...]

i'm sitcking with that in a few of mine, only because i know the
support will come at some point, and the alternatives (as you cite)
are unacceptable by either the client or me...


--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035


From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Aug 12 12:24:20 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon Aug 12 12:24:20 2002
Subject: [thelist] N6 bug -- form labels overlapping form fields
In-Reply-To: <200208121501.g7CF1kB4022139@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <200208121708.g7CH8pB4024348@leo.evolt.org>

well, i got one reply offlist with a suggestion to just reformat the
form... but while tracking down bugs, i think i've narrowed it down a
bit thanks to bugzilla:

bug #85306, reported June 11, 2001
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85306
'use of label within th with text-align: right style doesn't render
correctly'

looks like it was fixed in the august 25, 2001 nightly build, meaning
the first milestone/version release that would have seen the fix
would have been mozilla 0.9.4, completed Sept. 14, 2001...

so, given that information, what versions of Netscape run what
versions of mozilla?  or what versions of Netscape would have pre-
0.9.3 versions of mozilla under the hood?


it seems the <label> has gone through a colorful implementation
history with the mozilla developers...

http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96813
'LABEL element always treated as inline'

http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=47149
'[LBL]label element is treated as inline-block'


> From: "aardvark" <roselli at earthlink.net>
[...]
> http://lenderconsulting.com/order_form/
> (please don't fill out the form, there's no reason to for this)
>
> in some versions of Netscape (so far, not 6.01, 6.2, or mozilla 1.0)
> the form labels overlaps the form fields -- or rather sit behind them
> a bit... as if all the text was pushed to the right 30px or so... the
> page is valid HTML 4.01 Transitional and valid CSS...
[...]


--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035


From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Mon Aug 12 12:59:14 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Mon Aug 12 12:59:14 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS max-width question.
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BA94@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov
> [mailto:Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov]

> become longer). I want the box to size to less than 800px if
> the browser window gets smaller (i.e. if the user doesn't
> like to browse fullscreen or has a lower-res display --
> 800x600, 640x480).

Best bet is JavaScript, unfortunately. I've worked up an example that
should work in IE 4+ using JavaScript and Gecko-based browsers using
max-width. Feel free to scalp.
<http://www.saila.com/usage/tips/examples/max-width.html>

Basically detects the page width, if its greater than 800 the container
is given a style of 800px, otherwise it's set to 100%.

> Any suggestions? I'm sure this is a common quandary..

Unfortunately, it is...

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From cds at orizont.net  Mon Aug 12 13:08:01 2002
From: cds at orizont.net (Catalin Salagean)
Date: Mon Aug 12 13:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] business cards resources
Message-ID: <000801c2422b$0abc8870$110369c2@jimmy>

I am faced with a new situation (for me): how to design a successful,
professional business card. I know that general principles are the same in
designing the look of a website and designing a business card, but there are
major
differences, and i'm absolutely clueless what a good card should containt,
and how it should look like.
Any good resources about this?

Catalin




From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 12 13:14:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Mon Aug 12 13:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] DOM: accessing properties of "group" array
Message-ID: <20020812180810.6120.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com>

Listers,

I'm working on a script that will allow me to highlight a row in a
table with styles. In doing this, I'm grabbing the ID of the row I
want to highlight. I then want to apply my CSS changes to the
children of that row, the TD cells themselves.

So far so good, but a bit of a snag. I'm using this function:

---------------------------

function walkChildren(objRef)
{
var obj = document.getElementById(objRef)
var i, group

group = obj.children
  for (i = 0; i < group.length; i++)
    {
      alert(group[i].id);
    }
}

---------------------------

I can pass my TR ID to this function. It grabs it fine, and "group"
becomes an array of each child under that TR, using the read-only
children method.

I can access individual properties of a child using:

group[i].property (you could read this child.1.property)

So in the above example, if all those TDs had IDs they would each pop
up in the alert.

I don't care about that, what I DO want to do is alter the styles.
(There is a style rule set for TD). I have tried:

group[i].style.color
group[i].color

to no avail. I cannot seem to find any reference in my books or
otherwise on what properties of the object are reachable via the
children property. I realize its a read-only property itself, but the
properties of the CHILD it references shouldn't be.

I CAN attach a method, and it will fire effectively, such as the
contains() method:

group[i].contains(document.getElementById('e'))

will return true for any td that has <em id='e'>blah</em> in it.

TIA

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 12 13:28:00 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Mon Aug 12 13:28:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] DOM: accessing properties of "children" array
In-Reply-To: <20020812180810.6120.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020812182647.33853.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com>

Oops, that should be the CHILDREN array - group is the variable name
I gave it..sorry bout the confusion.

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From betou at terra.com.br  Mon Aug 12 13:41:01 2002
From: betou at terra.com.br (betou)
Date: Mon Aug 12 13:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP OO + UML
Message-ID: <H0QUGF$82BFAE60F3C84B1982E30AEF96D57DDC@terra.com.br>

Hello,

Can anyone recommend a good PHP OO + UML reference material?

Sincerely,

Luis R Ulbrich
luis.r.ulbrich at terra.com.br






From beau at cubeinc.ca  Mon Aug 12 13:45:35 2002
From: beau at cubeinc.ca (Beau Hartshorne)
Date: Mon Aug 12 13:45:35 2002
Subject: [thelist] mySQL queries
Message-ID: <000201c2422b$0287b3f0$cd71fea9@Cube>

Hi,

I'm building an online time/billing application for myself with
php/mysql. I've set up a billing_job table, and a billing_invoice table.
Each job can have one or more invoices associated with it (deposit,
milestones, final).

The tables are set up something like this:

Table: billing_invoice
invoice_id
job_id
number
date
amount

Table: billing_job
job_id
client_id
name
amount
date
active

I want to display a list of jobs that have not been fully paid, and I
want the list to show how much is still owing on each job.

I've come up with a query that returns all of the jobs that have one or
more invoice, and that returns how much has been invoiced for these
jobs:

SELECT
	billing_invoice.*,
	billing_job.*,
	SUM(billing_invoice.amount)
FROM
	billing_invoice,billing_job
WHERE
	(billing_job.job_id = billing_invoice.job_id)
GROUP BY
	billing_job.job_id

There are a couple problems with the query (aside from the .*'s, I'll
fix those later):

1. It does not return jobs that have zero invoices. (I can hack around
this by running another query to find all the jobs without invoices.
Yuk.)

2. It will return jobs that have been fully invoiced. The SUM function
doesn't seem to work in the WHERE clause. (I can hack around this by
using PHP to ignore rows where the amount still owing is a positive
number. Yuk.)

3. All my worries would go away if each billing_job row kept its own
track of how much money had been paid and how much was owing. (Yuk. I'm
trying to do this properly.)

Will I have to resort to these hacks, assuming that I'm stuck with
mySQL? Or is there some other way to deal with this?

Thanks,

Beau




From beau at members.evolt.org  Mon Aug 12 13:55:01 2002
From: beau at members.evolt.org (Beau Hartshorne)
Date: Mon Aug 12 13:55:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mySQL queries
Message-ID: <000401c24231$86a3d5f0$cd71fea9@Cube>

Hi,

I'm building an online time/billing application for myself with
php/mysql. I've set up a billing_job table, and a billing_invoice table.
Each job can have one or more invoices associated with it (deposit,
milestones, final).

The tables are set up something like this:

Table: billing_invoice
invoice_id
job_id
number
date
amount

Table: billing_job
job_id
client_id
name
amount
date
active

I want to display a list of jobs that have not been fully paid, and I
want the list to show how much is still owing on each job.

I've come up with a query that returns all of the jobs that have one or
more invoice, and that returns how much has been invoiced for these
jobs:

SELECT
	billing_invoice.*,
	billing_job.*,
	SUM(billing_invoice.amount)
FROM
	billing_invoice,billing_job
WHERE
	(billing_job.job_id = billing_invoice.job_id)
GROUP BY
	billing_job.job_id

There are a couple problems with the query (aside from the .*'s, I'll
fix those later):

1. It does not return jobs that have zero invoices. (I can hack around
this by running another query to find all the jobs without invoices.
Yuk.)

2. It will return jobs that have been fully invoiced. The SUM function
doesn't seem to work in the WHERE clause. (I can hack around this by
using PHP to ignore rows where the amount still owing is a positive
number. Yuk.)

3. All my worries would go away if each billing_job row kept its own
track of how much money had been paid and how much was owing. (Yuk. I'm
trying to do this properly.)

Will I have to resort to these hacks, assuming that I'm stuck with
mySQL? Or is there some other way to deal with this?

Thanks,

Beau




From chuck at project27.com  Mon Aug 12 14:14:01 2002
From: chuck at project27.com (Chuck Gartland)
Date: Mon Aug 12 14:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP OO + UML
References: <H0QUGF$82BFAE60F3C84B1982E30AEF96D57DDC@terra.com.br>
Message-ID: <3D5808F3.1010007@project27.com>

betou wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a good PHP OO + UML reference material?

Building Web Applications with UML by Jim Conallen. It uses asp in its
sample code but if you can see through the asp it is a very good book.

Chuck
chuck at project27.com



From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Mon Aug 12 14:19:01 2002
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Mon Aug 12 14:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mySQL queries
In-Reply-To: <000201c2422b$0287b3f0$cd71fea9@Cube>
Message-ID: <001a01c24234$8d974970$8102a8c0@000347D72515>

[snip]
Table: billing_invoice
invoice_id
job_id
number
date
amount

Table: billing_job
job_id
client_id
name
amount
date
active

I want to display a list of jobs that have not been fully paid, and I
want the list to show how much is still owing on each job.

I've come up with a query that returns all of the jobs that have one or
more invoice, and that returns how much has been invoiced for these
jobs:

SELECT
	billing_invoice.*,
	billing_job.*,
	SUM(billing_invoice.amount)
FROM
	billing_invoice,billing_job
WHERE
	(billing_job.job_id = billing_invoice.job_id)
GROUP BY
	billing_job.job_id

1. It does not return jobs that have zero invoices. (I can hack around
this by running another query to find all the jobs without invoices.
Yuk.)

2. It will return jobs that have been fully invoiced. The SUM function
doesn't seem to work in the WHERE clause. (I can hack around this by
using PHP to ignore rows where the amount still owing is a positive
number. Yuk.)

3. All my worries would go away if each billing_job row kept its own
track of how much money had been paid and how much was owing. (Yuk. I'm
trying to do this properly.)
[/snip]

Try something like this; (some pseudo-code)

SELECT billing_job.*, billing_invoice.*, SUM(billing_invoice.amount) AS
total_invoice, SUM(billing_job.amount) AS total_job
FROM billing_job LEFT OUTER JOIN billing_invoice
ON (billing_job.id = billing_invoice.id)
GROUP BY billing_job
HAVING total_job > total_invoice


On second thought, it seems as if your tables lack the proper information or
you haven't given all of the information -- like which table is the base
table or parent table in this case, so this may not be correct. I hope that
this points you in the right direction though. Using a left join will show
jobs where no invoices exist. Where is the payment table(s)?

HTH!

Jay




From Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov  Mon Aug 12 14:25:01 2002
From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov (Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov)
Date: Mon Aug 12 14:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mySQL queries
Message-ID: <C6B2C319C76C7A498CC6AE908EAEC5C3EA23F4@apexch10.rl.gov>

Beau,

> 1. It does not return jobs that have zero invoices. (I can hack around
this by running another query to find all the jobs without invoices.
Yuk.)

To do this, you'll need to use an outer join. I'm not certain what the
syntax is for that in MySQL, but in Microsoft's SQL, it'd be something like
this:

old -
FROM
	billing_invoice,billing_job
WHERE
	(billing_job.job_id = billing_invoice.job_id)

new -
FROM
	billint_invoice
	LEFT OUTER JOIN billing_job
	ON billing_job.job_id = billing_invoice.job_id

Essentially, you're saying "Return all the records from billing_job (the
'left' or first table), even if they don't have any matching records in
billing_invoice." The fields that would come from billing_invoice will be
NULL on the unmatched records.

> 2. It will return jobs that have been fully invoiced. The SUM function
doesn't seem to work in the WHERE clause. (I can hack around this by using
PHP to ignore rows where the amount still owing is a positive number. Yuk.)

That's because SUM is an aggregate function, and those aren't allowed in the
WHERE clause. They *are*, however, allowed in the "HAVING" clause. Add a
HAVING clause to your query and put your SUM criteria there.

(Again, I use Microsoft SQL here at work -- YMMV.)

> 3. All my worries would go away if each billing_job row kept its own track
of how much money had been paid and how much was owing. (Yuk. I'm trying to
do this properly.)

Bravo! (-:

--
Jonathan McPherson, LMIT/SD&I
Software Engineer & Web Systems Analyst
email / jonathan_a_mcpherson at rl dot gov


-----Original Message-----
From: Beau Hartshorne [mailto:beau at cubeinc.ca]
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 11:07 AM
To: 'thelist'
Subject: [thelist] mySQL queries


Hi,

I'm building an online time/billing application for myself with php/mysql.
I've set up a billing_job table, and a billing_invoice table. Each job can
have one or more invoices associated with it (deposit, milestones, final).

The tables are set up something like this:

Table: billing_invoice
invoice_id
job_id
number
date
amount

Table: billing_job
job_id
client_id
name
amount
date
active

I want to display a list of jobs that have not been fully paid, and I want
the list to show how much is still owing on each job.

I've come up with a query that returns all of the jobs that have one or more
invoice, and that returns how much has been invoiced for these
jobs:

SELECT
	billing_invoice.*,
	billing_job.*,
	SUM(billing_invoice.amount)
FROM
	billing_invoice,billing_job
WHERE
	(billing_job.job_id = billing_invoice.job_id)
GROUP BY
	billing_job.job_id

There are a couple problems with the query (aside from the .*'s, I'll fix
those later):

1. It does not return jobs that have zero invoices. (I can hack around this
by running another query to find all the jobs without invoices.
Yuk.)

2. It will return jobs that have been fully invoiced. The SUM function
doesn't seem to work in the WHERE clause. (I can hack around this by using
PHP to ignore rows where the amount still owing is a positive number. Yuk.)

3. All my worries would go away if each billing_job row kept its own track
of how much money had been paid and how much was owing. (Yuk. I'm trying to
do this properly.)

Will I have to resort to these hacks, assuming that I'm stuck with mySQL? Or
is there some other way to deal with this?

Thanks,

Beau


--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !


From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug 12 14:28:47 2002
From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr)
Date: Mon Aug 12 14:28:47 2002
Subject: [thelist] Running msxml
In-Reply-To: <000201c2420f$9a7a1570$b1276844@beldamar>
Message-ID: <000001c24234$c72839b0$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>

First off you need to call the program properly.
>From your command prompt (where ever the fies reside) you should type:
msxsl xpath.xml xpath.xsl -o output.html

Notice the "-o output.html" This tells the parser what your output is.
Without that it won't know what to do with the transformation. You can
get a list of all the switches for MSXSL here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/Dnxslge
n/ht
ml/msxsl.asp

If you are typing this in correctly and still getting the error then it
sounds like you don't have the MSXML 4.0 parser installed. The MSXSL
command line program requires msxml4.dll which can be obtained from this
link.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/default.asp?url=/downloads/sample.as
p?ur
l=/msdn-files/027/001/766/msdncompositedoc.xml

________________________________________

Hi Brad.

Mmmm, I had already downloaded and ran the installer from that URL.  Is
there anything else I should be downloading (I'm new at this XML thing,
as you might have guessed...)

I tried calling the program as you suggested and got the same error
message, so now I'm stumped.

Any more ideas would be greatly appreiciated.

Francis




From wade_lists at runstrong.com  Mon Aug 12 14:31:01 2002
From: wade_lists at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong)
Date: Mon Aug 12 14:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mySQL queries
In-Reply-To: <000201c2422b$0287b3f0$cd71fea9@Cube>
Message-ID: <B97D5A08.270A9%wade_lists@runstrong.com>

on 8/12/02 11:06 AM, Beau Hartshorne at beau at cubeinc.ca wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm building an online time/billing application for myself with
> php/mysql. I've set up a billing_job table, and a billing_invoice table.
> Each job can have one or more invoices associated with it (deposit,
> milestones, final).

> Table: billing_invoice
> invoice_id
> job_id
> number
> date
> amount
>
> Table: billing_job
> job_id
> client_id
> name
> amount
> date
> active
>
> I want to display a list of jobs that have not been fully paid, and I
> want the list to show how much is still owing on each job.

How about:
(warning: didn't test)

SELECT
    bi.invoice_id,
    bi.job_id,
    bj.job_id,
    SUM(bj_amount) AS total_cost,
    SUM(bi.amount) AS total_invoiced
FROM
    billing_jobs bj
LEFT JOIN
    billing_invoices bi
    ON bj.job_id = bi.job_id
WHERE
    (total_cost - total_invoiced) > 0

Wade



From slewis at macrovista.net  Mon Aug 12 14:35:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Mon Aug 12 14:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mySQL queries
References: <000401c24231$86a3d5f0$cd71fea9@Cube>
Message-ID: <3D580E9E.6050701@macrovista.net>

Beau Hartshorne wrote:

> I want to display a list of jobs that have not been fully paid, and I
> want the list to show how much is still owing on each job.

> 1. It does not return jobs that have zero invoices. (I can hack around
> this by running another query to find all the jobs without invoices.
> Yuk.)
Begin by exploring the syntax of Outer Joins.  You are currently
performing an implicit join which I would recommend against, and this
implicit join acts as an inner join which doesn't return what you really
want to find.

Making an outer join explicit will allow you to add an appropriate
condition to your WHERE clause such as 'OR COUNT(billing_invoice.amount)
= 0' or such.

> 2. It will return jobs that have been fully invoiced. The SUM function
> doesn't seem to work in the WHERE clause. (I can hack around this by
> using PHP to ignore rows where the amount still owing is a positive
> number. Yuk.)

Add another condition to your WHERE clause, being explicit with
parenthesis use to control order of operations, that excludes rows where
SUM(billing_invoice.amount) = billing_job.amount

> 3. All my worries would go away if each billing_job row kept its own
> track of how much money had been paid and how much was owing. (Yuk. I'm
> trying to do this properly.)

One way to address this concern, while sacrificing minimal
normalization, would be to save after_invoice_balance_due as another
column in the invoice table.

A second way, which may make your query significantly easier to
conceptualize, but at the cost of a bit more normalization, would be to
store the current balance_due as another column in the job table
(instead or in addition to the above after_invoice_balance_due column).

> Will I have to resort to these hacks, assuming that I'm stuck with
> mySQL? Or is there some other way to deal with this?

MySQL is a very adequate database manager, and this sort of work can and
  should be done in the database as you know.  The trade-off in my
opinion of working with MySQL is that you are forced to be more careful
and explicit than when working with some other database managers (MS SQL
for example is 'easier' to work in sometimes), but this forces you to
learn the 'right way' to do things, which is valuable no matter what DB
you use.

Here is how I would start writting this query... I havn't actively
developed in MySQL for a year so please excuse if I am a bit rusty.

SELECT client.name as client_name, billing_job.job_id, billing_job.name,
billing_job.amount - SUM(billing_invoice.amount) AS balance_due
FROM billing_job INNER JOIN client
     ON billing_job.client_id = client.client_id
   LEFT OUTER JOIN billing_invoice
     ON billing_job.job_id = billing_invoice.job_id
WHERE billing_job.amount - SUM(billing_invoice.amount) > 0
GROUP BY billing_job.job_id, billing_job.name, billing_job.client_id

HTH

--Steve



From slewis at macrovista.net  Mon Aug 12 14:39:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Mon Aug 12 14:39:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] business cards resources
References: <000801c2422b$0abc8870$110369c2@jimmy>
Message-ID: <3D580F4C.4010205@macrovista.net>

Catalin Salagean wrote:
> I am faced with a new situation (for me): how to design a successful,
> professional business card. I know that general principles are the same in
> designing the look of a website and designing a business card, but there are
> major
> differences, and i'm absolutely clueless what a good card should containt,
> and how it should look like.
> Any good resources about this?

At risk of being less-than-helpful remember that web folks hate it when
print designers treat web design as an interchangable medium.  Do a
favor and call a local print shop and ask to work with one of their
print designers on a business card. :)

--Steve



From bocmaxima at wtez.net  Mon Aug 12 14:47:01 2002
From: bocmaxima at wtez.net (colin)
Date: Mon Aug 12 14:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] layer and div in ns4
Message-ID: <001901c24237$f1216f90$66ec0781@FACULTY05>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
I've noticed that when you have a <layer> with the src attribute defined to some external page, Netscape 4x will either not recognize <div> tags, or ignores all of their attributes. As a result of this, I've just stopped using the <div> whenever possible.
An example is here:
http://www.tech.uh.edu/administration.htm

Is this is a documented error in the Netscape browser? I've never been able to find anything on it.

Thanks for reading,

colin
bocmaxima at wtez.net
http://www.tech.uh.edu
http://www.shuaige.net


From beau at members.evolt.org  Mon Aug 12 14:52:54 2002
From: beau at members.evolt.org (Beau Hartshorne)
Date: Mon Aug 12 14:52:54 2002
Subject: [thelist] mySQL queries
In-Reply-To: <001a01c24234$8d974970$8102a8c0@000347D72515>
Message-ID: <000901c24238$6645fde0$cd71fea9@Cube>

Jay, Jonathan: thank you!

Here's the working mySQL query (it does exactly what I want):

SELECT
	billing_job.*,
	billing_invoice.*,
	SUM(billing_invoice.amount) AS total_invoice,
	billing_job.amount AS j_amount
FROM
	billing_job
LEFT JOIN
	billing_invoice
ON
	(billing_job.job_id = billing_invoice.job_id)
GROUP BY
	billing_job.job_id
HAVING
	j_amount > total_invoice

Jay: there's a bunch of other tables (payment, client, etc), but I
didn't want to make the question any more complicated than it needed to
be.

All: sorry about the double post (I sent it originally via the wrong
email account, so I re-sent it with the right one, but both showed up).

<tip type="php">

If you are a php programmer (of any skill level) go read this article
(there are three parts):

http://www.zend.com/zend/art/mistake.php
http://www.zend.com/zend/art/mistake1.php
http://www.zend.com/zend/art/mistake2.php

It should help you learn or re-learn the best way to write code with
php.

</tip>

Thanks,

Beau




From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov  Mon Aug 12 15:01:29 2002
From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S)
Date: Mon Aug 12 15:01:29 2002
Subject: [thelist] AOL Version for Mac Uses Netscape Technology
Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C440@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
The link:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2
<http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=569&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/200
20812/tc_nm/tech_aol_mac_dc_3>
&cid=569&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20020812/tc_nm/tech_aol_mac_dc_3

Josh



From bvaradi at nlcnet.org  Mon Aug 12 15:10:00 2002
From: bvaradi at nlcnet.org (Benjamin C. Varadi)
Date: Mon Aug 12 15:10:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] dynamic dns server software?
References: <3D52E585.36FA2822@nlcnet.org> <000b01c241cc$58bb5100$0400a8c0@bb>
Message-ID: <3D5809CE.C674EF79@nlcnet.org>

Wahyu Harsono wrote:
>
> Try DNS2GO ( Windows ), on http://www.deerfield.com

Yeah, once again, this looks like client software.  I'm looking to
PROVIDE this sort of service.

Thx,

-BEN

--
Benjamin C. Varadi
Webmaster, National Labor Committee
275 7th Ave, 15th Floor.  NYC 10001
pager: bengoesbeep at vesana.com
phone: (212) 242-3002 x387
www.nlcnet.org


From slewis at macrovista.net  Mon Aug 12 15:13:43 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Mon Aug 12 15:13:43 2002
Subject: [thelist] mySQL queries
References: <000401c24231$86a3d5f0$cd71fea9@Cube>
Message-ID: <3D58126D.50102@macrovista.net>

Beau Hartshorne wrote:

> 2. It will return jobs that have been fully invoiced. The SUM function
> doesn't seem to work in the WHERE clause. (I can hack around this by
> using PHP to ignore rows where the amount still owing is a positive
> number. Yuk.)
It occurs to me now that I didn't read this part carefully enough.  If
you want to use an aggregate function (SUM AVG COUNT etc) in a WHERE
clause, look at HAVING in the MySQL documentation.  Essentially you will
use a HAVING clause instead of a WHERE clause.

My excuse: I'm still on vacation till tomorrow.  :)

--Steve

> 3. All my worries would go away if each billing_job row kept its own
> track of how much money had been paid and how much was owing. (Yuk. I'm
> trying to do this properly.)

And as Jay said, where is your 'payments' table.. just because you
mailed an invoice doesn't mean you got the check yet.  :)




From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Mon Aug 12 15:21:47 2002
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Mon Aug 12 15:21:47 2002
Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver DHTML Menus
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020812143854.04992d50@mail.imaginuity.com>

A client passed us some Dreamweaver templates they wanted used for a
design.  Anyways, they altered some images and now the DHTML menu <div>s
don't line up with them anymore.

Does anybody happen to know, in the litany of JavaScript functions that
Dreamweaver uses, where it hides the top and left position values for these
menu layers?  I thought it would be in the function that actually defines
the menu and its menu items but it's not there anywhere.

I'd post the code for the JavaScript people out there, but it's 700 lines
long.  However, if you can help and want to see it, please let me know and
I can e-mail you off-list.

(And please don't berate me on the evils of absolute positioning.  I
know.  But this seems to be a client for whom, 'Time travel hasn't been
invented yet' is not an adequate enough excuse for why this wasn't done
yesterday.)

Thanks all.

--Ben

Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive
http://www.imaginuity.com/

Not an Emergency: "AudioGalaxy doesn't work anymore."
Emergency: "The server is on fire, bring the extinguisher!"
Please adjust your e-mail priorities accordingly.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
         http://www.radicalbender.com/     http://www.evolt.org/



From andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk  Mon Aug 12 15:43:01 2002
From: andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Mon Aug 12 15:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <B97D5A08.270A9%wade_lists@runstrong.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEBJDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>

Hi all

glad we are back online, is it just me or is everyoner getting 2-3 mails of the
same post?

anyway here is the question, I have a form that I would like to get the email
inserted into a MySQL db is this possible?  I mean possible to use the existing
form elements and adding a tick box sent me a weekly newsletter?

Thank you

Andrew
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02



From noah at tookish.net  Mon Aug 12 16:02:01 2002
From: noah at tookish.net (noah)
Date: Mon Aug 12 16:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] virtual private server recommendations
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020812154234.0260d4b0@tookish.net>

I'm looking for a reasonable solution for hosting and administrating
multiple sites (about 10 right now, hopefully continuing to grow).

I am currently using a Vserver, but in the year or so that I've had it the
company has changed hands twice -- I'm now, through no choice of my own, a
typically unimpressed Interland customer (example: my server runs a
three-year old beta version of PHP4 which Interland won't upgrade because
they're not supporting "legacy" hosts).

I'm leaning toward a "virtual private server" -- I've done some research,
and so far I've been most impressed by Remarkable Hosting
(http://www.remarkablehosting.com/) and OnSmart (http://www.onsmart.net/).
Does anyone have any experience (good or bad) with either of these companies?

Rackshack (http://www.rackshack.net/) has dedicated servers for not much
more money, but all of the sites I'm currently hosting are fairly
low-traffic, and a dedicated server might be overkill. Also, as far as I
can tell from the Rackshack site, I would be responsible for software
updates, etc. -- that stuff is taken care of with a virtual private server,
which is nice.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Noah



From brad at beldamar.com  Mon Aug 12 16:04:13 2002
From: brad at beldamar.com (Brad Miller)
Date: Mon Aug 12 16:04:13 2002
Subject: [thelist] Running msxml
In-Reply-To: <000001c24234$c72839b0$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>
Message-ID: <000a01c2423e$7c619250$b1276844@beldamar>

Do you remember how you did the install? I believe there are 2 options for
installing MSXML 4.0 where one of them allows you to keep the old MSXML 3.0
and install 4.0 side by side. If I remember correctly this will cause
problems with the MSXSL program from running properly. You may need to
re-install 4.0 and choose the option that makes 4.0 the only version
available. Not sure if you can do a re-install or if you need to remove it
completely first. Probably better just to remove it.

If that doesn't fix it I would suggest checking out the Mulberry
Technology's XSL email list. There are a few people on that list that I know
will be able to help.
http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list/

The other option you have is to download a different parser. Apache makes a
really good one called Xalan. There is a Java version and a C++ version. I
use the Java version because it has more descriptive errors than the C++
version.

HTH,
Brad Miller
www.beldamar.com
www.x-etc.com
brad at beldamar.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A virus in a document is OK
(provided the DTD allows it)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Mon Aug 12 16:10:00 2002
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Mon Aug 12 16:10:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Dreamweaver DHTML Menus
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020812143854.04992d50@mail.imaginuity.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020812160144.01a51da0@mail.imaginuity.com>

Never mind, I found it.  It was in the frelling onmouseover function.  Argh.

I tipped earlier today.  That covers this "post of boneheaded
realization"(TM).  Boy, I'm off my game since we came back online...

--Ben

At 02:48 PM 8/12/2002, you wrote:
>Does anybody happen to know, in the litany of JavaScript functions that
>Dreamweaver uses, where it hides the top and left position values for these
>menu layers?  I thought it would be in the function that actually defines
>the menu and its menu items but it's not there anywhere.

Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive
http://www.imaginuity.com/

Not an Emergency: "AudioGalaxy doesn't work anymore."
Emergency: "The server is on fire, bring the extinguisher!"
Please adjust your e-mail priorities accordingly.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
         http://www.radicalbender.com/     http://www.evolt.org/



From r937 at interlog.com  Mon Aug 12 16:13:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Mon Aug 12 16:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mySQL queries
Message-ID: <01c24244$d0a55260$21eb059a@rudy>

> The trade-off in my opinion of working with MySQL is that
> you are forced to be more careful and explicit than when
> working with some other database managers

sorry to disagree but it's the other way round

mysql lets you get away with crap that other databases don't

for example, in standard sql, every non-aggregate column in the SELECT list
must be explicitly mentioned in the GROUP BY clause, but in mysql you can
group by whatever you damned well please and devil take the hindmost (i.e.
sometimes you get results different from what you intended)

case in point:  beau's "working" solution

SELECT
billing_job.*,
billing_invoice.*,
SUM(billing_invoice.amount)
...
GROUP BY
billing_job.job_id


you cannot get away with that in a real database

if there are multiple invoices per job, which one provides the individual
column values (billing_invoice.*)?  no individual values from the invoice
table should be available in the job_id groups...


rudy



From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 12 16:23:01 2002
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Mon Aug 12 16:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Graphic/Flash Designer-Toronto Job Opportunity - asap :)
Message-ID: <20020812212217.56467.qmail@web13506.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi guys and gals,

A job opportunity has come up for anyone interested. I'd thought I'd post a quick note on the
list. I'll keep this brief. Any interested applicants should contact recruit at everysolution.com for
more details.

Description:
A creative and experienced web graphic specialist needed to design a fun yet professional web
interface.

Period: 2-3 weeks
Type: contract (full-time), possible to work from home

- Experience and Creativity in interface design (ease-of-use, functionality)
- Understanding of web layouts, colours, navigation, design
- Excellent graphic skills for the web
- Fluent in: Flash, HTML, JavaScript, CSS
- Knowledge of: Photoshop, Fireworks or other advanced graphic application
- Must be based in Toronto

This is pretty urgent so if you're available for the next 2 or 3 weeks contact
recruit at everysolution.com.

Later,
Jon


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 12 16:33:01 2002
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Mon Aug 12 16:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEBJDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20020812213217.91322.qmail@web13503.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey Andrew,

Sure you can.

Create a checkbox in the form:

<input type="checkbox" name="addToList" value="yes">

Then on the receiving page...

if(isset($addToList) && $addToList == "yes"){
   //assuming there's a form field called email
   $throwItIn = mysql_query("insert into mylistofemails values('".$_POST['email']."');
}


--- Andrew Maynes <andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> glad we are back online, is it just me or is everyoner getting 2-3 mails of the
> same post?
>
> anyway here is the question, I have a form that I would like to get the email
> inserted into a MySQL db is this possible?  I mean possible to use the existing
> form elements and adding a tick box sent me a weekly newsletter?
>
> Thank you
>
> Andrew
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


__________________________________________________
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HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov  Mon Aug 12 16:46:01 2002
From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov (Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov)
Date: Mon Aug 12 16:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS max-width question.
Message-ID: <C6B2C319C76C7A498CC6AE908EAEC5C3EA23F7@apexch10.rl.gov>

Craig,

Thanks for the information/script... *sigh* I really hate resorting to JS
manipulation of the DOM, but it does appear to be the best we can do for
now.

BTW, these comment sequences intrigued me...
<!--/*--><![CDATA[/*><!--*/
[ ... ]
/*]]>*/-->

<!--//--><![CDATA[//><!--
[ ... ]
//--><!]]>

I do believe I'll rip those off for when I use inline JavaScript/CSS.

I wonder if the above is a result of a subtle effort by the W3C to make
escaping inline scripts/style sheets so tricky that everyone links them
externally? (-;

--
Jonathan McPherson, LMIT/SD&I
Software Engineer & Web Systems Analyst
email / jonathan_a_mcpherson at rl dot gov

-----Original Message-----
From: Saila, Craig [mailto:Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com]
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 10:58 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] CSS max-width question.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov [mailto:Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov]

> become longer). I want the box to size to less than 800px if the
> browser window gets smaller (i.e. if the user doesn't like to browse
> fullscreen or has a lower-res display -- 800x600, 640x480).

Best bet is JavaScript, unfortunately. I've worked up an example that should
work in IE 4+ using JavaScript and Gecko-based browsers using max-width.
Feel free to scalp.
<http://www.saila.com/usage/tips/examples/max-width.html>

Basically detects the page width, if its greater than 800 the container is
given a style of 800px, otherwise it's set to 100%.

> Any suggestions? I'm sure this is a common quandary..

Unfortunately, it is...

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From arogers at attbi.com  Mon Aug 12 16:54:01 2002
From: arogers at attbi.com (Amy Rogers)
Date: Mon Aug 12 16:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Popup window opens slowly under IE 6.0 for PC
Message-ID: <3D582E42.1277097B@attbi.com>

I need help with a popup window issue that is showing up only under
IE 6.0 PC.  I am not experiencing this problem with other browsers
including IE 5.5 on the Mac.

http://arosheaf.com//hip/hipchatpals/index.html

The popup window is linked to the highlighted words on the page.
Basically it opens a new pre-defined sized window.

Problem: In IE 6.0 PC, the new window opens much more slowly than
in other browsers. What is causing this? (Operating system: Win XP)

On another but related subject, I like for these pop-up windows to
auto-resize based on the contents. In other words, adjust the
dimensions of the window according to the amount of the content
within, rather than a fixed size. Is this possible?  I will have
several similar windows, each varying in length.

I welcome any suggestions. Thanks,


Amy


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 12 17:00:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Mon Aug 12 17:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] DOM: accessing properties of "children" array SOLVED
In-Reply-To: <20020812180810.6120.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020812215437.48507.qmail@web12605.mail.yahoo.com>

In short, my problem was getting to the properties of each child in
the children array, using the DOM. The answer is using the attributes
collection.

You can get a list of all of one elements children like this:

var nodeObj = document.getElementById(rowID);
group = nodeObj.children;

To get at each individual child:

for (i = 0; i < group.length; i++)
{
   var attrMax = group[i].attributes.length;  //size of ALL
attributes
   var TDnodeObj = group[i];  //each child in group

for(var j = 0; j < attrMax; j++)
{
   if(TDnodeObj.attributes.item(j).nodeName == "class")
   {
      if(TDnodeObj.attributes.item(j).nodeValue == "rowTD")
      {
         TDnodeObj.style.color = "#003366";
      }
   }
}

You step through each attribute until you find the desired one (I
wanted the class). If its the class you want (I wanted rowTD) then,
do some desired actions to it. I changed the color.

My next question is how to make this cross-browser. It doesn't do
squiddly in NN6.2 or Mozilla 1, or Opera. Seems odd, I would figure
that at least SOMETHING would happen, since this is DOM code...

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
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HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Mon Aug 12 17:14:01 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Mon Aug 12 17:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS max-width question.
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BA97@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov
> [mailto:Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov]
> Sent: August 12, 2002 5:36 PM

> BTW, these comment sequences intrigued me...
> <!--/*--><![CDATA[/*><!--*/ [ ... ] /*]]>*/-->
>
> <!--//--><![CDATA[//><!--
> [ ... ]
> //--><!]]>
>
> I do believe I'll rip those off for when I use inline JavaScript/CSS.
>
> I wonder if the above is a result of a subtle effort by the
> W3C to make escaping inline scripts/style sheets so tricky
> that everyone links them externally? (-;

Actually, I think they were proposed by, I think, Andrew Clover on WD-L
as means of having valid comments in XHTML documents. But you're right,
they definitely encourage you to take that stuff external!

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From peterl at standingwave.org  Mon Aug 12 17:20:01 2002
From: peterl at standingwave.org (Peter Loron)
Date: Mon Aug 12 17:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] virtual private server recommendations
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020812154234.0260d4b0@tookish.net>
Message-ID: <3D583386.906@standingwave.org>

You would be responsible for your own software, but for a virtual
"dedicated" box, check out:

http://www.johncompanies.com/collocation/

-Pete

noah wrote:
> I'm looking for a reasonable solution for hosting and administrating
> multiple sites (about 10 right now, hopefully continuing to grow).
>
> I am currently using a Vserver, but in the year or so that I've had it the
> company has changed hands twice -- I'm now, through no choice of my own, a
> typically unimpressed Interland customer (example: my server runs a
> three-year old beta version of PHP4 which Interland won't upgrade because
> they're not supporting "legacy" hosts).
>
> I'm leaning toward a "virtual private server" -- I've done some research,
> and so far I've been most impressed by Remarkable Hosting
> (http://www.remarkablehosting.com/) and OnSmart (http://www.onsmart.net/).
> Does anyone have any experience (good or bad) with either of these
> companies?
>
> Rackshack (http://www.rackshack.net/) has dedicated servers for not much
> more money, but all of the sites I'm currently hosting are fairly
> low-traffic, and a dedicated server might be overkill. Also, as far as I
> can tell from the Rackshack site, I would be responsible for software
> updates, etc. -- that stuff is taken care of with a virtual private server,
> which is nice.
>
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Cheers,
> Noah
>



From framar at interlog.com  Mon Aug 12 17:25:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Mon Aug 12 17:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: CMS Tips and Tricks?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812181219.00a9bd68@mail.interlog.com>

A couple of years back, I had written a content management system. Very
good for a first try, but now I feel like starting from scratch with to
apply what I've learned since then. There are two issues that have
always  vexed me, and I was wondering if someone could offer some suggestions.

1) Images in the body of an article.
Up to this date, my system permitted one image per article, as defined by a
template. I would like to allow the non-technical user to simply choose to
upload an image and have it inserted in the middle of an article. (The
article is typed or pasted into a large text-area, right now.) How can I
have multiple images intermingled with copy, that is not based on a hard
coded template?

One solution I thought of, but seems a too clumsy to me is to return a
'code' (eg:   [[261-2.jpg]]  ) and have the user paste it in, but that
seems a little complex for some of my users (trust me, they would muck it up).

2) Javascript: Getting a selection.
I've wanted to allow the user to bold, or italicise text by selecting
the  the string, and clicking a button or image. Much like your typical
text editor UI. I know I can use MS specific code. Not good enough. Cross
browser compatible is necessary. I can certainly manipulate the string,
it's a matter of getting the current selection that stumps me.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Thansk



Frank Marion
framar at interlog.com





From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug 12 17:31:00 2002
From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr)
Date: Mon Aug 12 17:31:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Running msxml
In-Reply-To: <000a01c2423e$7c619250$b1276844@beldamar>
Message-ID: <000001c2424e$d0134000$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>

> Do you remember how you did the install? I believe there are 2 options
for installing MSXML 4.0 where one of them allows > you to keep the old
MSXML 3.0 and install 4.0 side by side. If I remember correctly this
will cause problems with the    > MSXSL program from running properly.
You may need to re-install 4.0 and choose the option that makes 4.0 the
only version > available. Not sure if you can do a re-install or if you
need to remove it completely first. Probably better just to      >
remove it.

Hi Brad

Yeah - I downloaded the .msi file, right clicked and selected "install".
I didn't get any options about which version to make avaialble - just a
quick install.

I've tried uninstall and re-install and it's there in my program files
directory, but I still get the same error message.

If you've got no ideas about this, I'll wander off and try a different
parser.

Cheers

Francis





From Greg.Cymbala at Den.Galileo.com  Mon Aug 12 17:38:00 2002
From: Greg.Cymbala at Den.Galileo.com (Cymbala, Greg)
Date: Mon Aug 12 17:38:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] DOM: accessing properties of "children" array SOLVE
	D
Message-ID: <200208122235.g7CMZGB4030501@leo.evolt.org>

<snip>My next question is how to make this cross-browser. It doesn't do
squiddly in NN6.2 or Mozilla 1, or Opera. Seems odd, I would figure that at
least SOMETHING would happen, since this is DOM code...</snip>

In Mozilla or Netscape, type "JavaScript:" (w/o the quotes) into the address
bar and hit Enter to bring up the JavaScript console.  That'll at least let
you see any errors that they're (quietly) complaining about.



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From jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu  Mon Aug 12 17:44:56 2002
From: jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu (Jonathon Isaac Swiderski)
Date: Mon Aug 12 17:44:56 2002
Subject: [thelist] quick [label] question
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0208121831340.31889-100000@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>

can anyone tell me quickly why the <label> on
http://cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders/f2o/other/volmatch.htm
doesn't show up in NS 6.2?  It works in IE5/6 and NC4
(sortof) but there's no <label> (the "Enter ZIP" text)
in NS 6.

--
Jonathon Isaac Swiderski       jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu
cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders  \\  www.dangercat.net/?id=mt

Reason number #113 to use Linux: You get to see the
guts of your OS.



From AWilliams at rfbd.org  Mon Aug 12 17:47:01 2002
From: AWilliams at rfbd.org (Williams, Alice)
Date: Mon Aug 12 17:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] virtual private server recommendations
Message-ID: <1819AC6AEA6DFE41B2406903CB5674679B257F@20SEXCH1.RFBD.org>

Here's another great company I personally use.  AITcom.net.  I've been with them for 4 years now and they have only increased their tools and support.
Thanks,
Alice

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Loron [mailto:peterl at standingwave.org]
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 6:16 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] virtual private server recommendations


You would be responsible for your own software, but for a virtual
"dedicated" box, check out:

http://www.johncompanies.com/collocation/

-Pete

noah wrote:
> I'm looking for a reasonable solution for hosting and administrating
> multiple sites (about 10 right now, hopefully continuing to grow).
>
> I am currently using a Vserver, but in the year or so that I've had it the
> company has changed hands twice -- I'm now, through no choice of my own, a
> typically unimpressed Interland customer (example: my server runs a
> three-year old beta version of PHP4 which Interland won't upgrade because
> they're not supporting "legacy" hosts).
>
> I'm leaning toward a "virtual private server" -- I've done some research,
> and so far I've been most impressed by Remarkable Hosting
> (http://www.remarkablehosting.com/) and OnSmart (http://www.onsmart.net/).
> Does anyone have any experience (good or bad) with either of these
> companies?
>
> Rackshack (http://www.rackshack.net/) has dedicated servers for not much
> more money, but all of the sites I'm currently hosting are fairly
> low-traffic, and a dedicated server might be overkill. Also, as far as I
> can tell from the Rackshack site, I would be responsible for software
> updates, etc. -- that stuff is taken care of with a virtual private server,
> which is nice.
>
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Cheers,
> Noah
>

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 12 17:56:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Mon Aug 12 17:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] quick [label] question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0208121831340.31889-100000@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>
Message-ID: <20020812225506.56047.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com>

NN6.2, Win2000pro - looks fine.
--- Jonathon Isaac Swiderski <jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu> wrote:
> can anyone tell me quickly why the <label> on
> http://cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders/f2o/other/volmatch.htm
> doesn't show up in NS 6.2?  It works in IE5/6 and NC4
> (sortof) but there's no <label> (the "Enter ZIP" text)
> in NS 6.
>
> --
> Jonathon Isaac Swiderski       jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu
> cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders  \\  www.dangercat.net/?id=mt
>
> Reason number #113 to use Linux: You get to see the
> guts of your OS.
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Mon Aug 12 18:13:56 2002
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Mon Aug 12 18:13:56 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: CMS Tips and Tricks?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812181219.00a9bd68@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020812175116.049f0d30@mail.imaginuity.com>

Sounds like you might want to consider using a browser-based WYSIWYG
editor.  They are *far* from perfect (as you might imagine), but they can
do things like this.  They also integrate well with ColdFusion.

Try:

eWebEditPro
<http://www.ektron.com/ewebeditpro.cfm>

ActivEdit
<http://www.cfdev.com/activedit/>

Plus many more are out there, I just can't remember them off-hand.

--Ben

At 05:23 PM 8/12/2002, Frank wrote:
>A couple of years back, I had written a content management system. Very
>good for a first try, but now I feel like starting from scratch with to
>apply what I've learned since then. There are two issues that have
>always  vexed me, and I was wondering if someone could offer some suggestions.

Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive
http://www.imaginuity.com/

Not an Emergency: "AudioGalaxy doesn't work anymore."
Emergency: "The server is on fire, bring the extinguisher!"
Please adjust your e-mail priorities accordingly.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
         http://www.radicalbender.com/     http://www.evolt.org/



From jonhall at ozline.net  Mon Aug 12 18:16:01 2002
From: jonhall at ozline.net (jon hall)
Date: Mon Aug 12 18:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Running msxml
In-Reply-To: <000001c2424e$d0134000$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>
References: <000001c2424e$d0134000$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>
Message-ID: <48869528035.20020812190522@ozline.net>

You need to download both of the files he linked. MsXSL is a
standalone program and not distributed with MSXML, it comes in a zip
all by itself, and it's named msxsl.exe conveniently :).
You will want to run msxsl.exe with the command line that Brad posted.

What's the end goal here? Are you just learning XSL or are you
implementing something based using the command line program?
I've never done it that way...I prefer not to shell out for
anything, too much overhead (on Windows anyway).

I think most people prefer to interface with MSXML via the COM
interface, for which you can find many examples of how to transform an
XML doc using XSL (hint: transformNode()).

My fav msxml reference.
http://www.devguru.com/Technologies/xmldom/quickref/xmldom_intro.html

--
 jon
 mailto:jonhall at ozline.net

Monday, August 12, 2002, 6:22:18 PM, you wrote:
>> Do you remember how you did the install? I believe there are 2 options
f> for installing MSXML 4.0 where one of them allows > you to keep the old
f> MSXML 3.0 and install 4.0 side by side. If I remember correctly this
f> will cause problems with the    > MSXSL program from running properly.
f> You may need to re-install 4.0 and choose the option that makes 4.0 the
only version >> available. Not sure if you can do a re-install or if you
f> need to remove it completely first. Probably better just to      >
f> remove it.

f> Hi Brad

f> Yeah - I downloaded the .msi file, right clicked and selected "install".
f> I didn't get any options about which version to make avaialble - just a
f> quick install.

f> I've tried uninstall and re-install and it's there in my program files
f> directory, but I still get the same error message.

f> If you've got no ideas about this, I'll wander off and try a different
f> parser.

f> Cheers

f> Francis



From Gary at star-chaser.com  Mon Aug 12 18:24:01 2002
From: Gary at star-chaser.com (Gary Bland)
Date: Mon Aug 12 18:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEBJDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3D584351.7070902@star-chaser.com>

Andrew Maynes wrote:
> Hi all
>
> glad we are back online, is it just me or is everyoner getting 2-3 mails of the
> same post?
>
> anyway here is the question, I have a form that I would like to get the email
> inserted into a MySQL db is this possible?  I mean possible to use the existing
> form elements and adding a tick box sent me a weekly newsletter?
>
> Thank you
>
> Andrew
> ---

Yes but you really need to check to see if the email address is already
there so you don't end up with someone putting the same email address in
several times. Here is one Of mine just adjust the INSERT to fit your need.

$sql = "SELECT email FROM TableName WHERE
          email='$email'";
         $result=mysql_query($sql);
         $num=mysql_numrows($result);
         if ($num > 0)
             echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        else {

$sql = "INSERT INTO TableName(name,email,phone,company,message) VALUES
('$name','$email','$phone','$company','$message')";



--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today



From john at evolt.org.uk  Mon Aug 12 18:31:52 2002
From: john at evolt.org.uk (John Handelaar)
Date: Mon Aug 12 18:31:52 2002
Subject: [thelist] virtual private server recommendations
In-Reply-To: <3D583386.906@standingwave.org>
Message-ID: <BEEMIMHGMNIOGNMGICNAAEDFCBAA.john@evolt.org.uk>

% -----Original Message-----
% From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
% [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Peter Loron
% Sent: 12 August 2002 23:16
% To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
% Subject: Re: [thelist] virtual private server recommendations
%
%
% You would be responsible for your own software, but for a virtual
% "dedicated" box, check out:
%
% http://www.johncompanies.com/collocation/

Me, I'm not ever going to give my co-location money
to a guy who can't even spell it.

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 8933 1494       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------


From Anthony at Baratta.com  Mon Aug 12 18:40:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Mon Aug 12 18:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Quick and Dirty Numerical Padding w/ASP....
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812163221.0286d918@mail.areamail.net>

<tip author="Anthony Baratta" subject="Padding Numbers with leading Zeros
in ASP">

I used to run numbers I wanted to pad through a function that checked to
see if the number was less than 9 or 99, and padded with leading zeros
accordingly. The other day I stumbled across a more simple and straight
forward way. (Believe it or not it was at the Microsoft MSDN site.)

_Padding with a Leading Zero the Day and Month_

strDay = Right("00" & CStr(Day(Now())),2)
strMonth = Right("00" & CStr(Month(Now())),2)

If you want two leading zeros for hundreds just change the 2 to a 3.

Piece of pie.

</tip>
--
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From jonhall at ozline.net  Mon Aug 12 18:56:01 2002
From: jonhall at ozline.net (jon hall)
Date: Mon Aug 12 18:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: CMS Tips and Tricks?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812181219.00a9bd68@mail.interlog.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812181219.00a9bd68@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <139872566293.20020812195600@ozline.net>

Check these guys out. Don't know if it fits your needs but it's the
coolest looking wysiwyg cms I've seen. IE5.5+/Moz

http://www.xopus.org/index.jsp?menu=mozce
Demo
http://q42.nl/xopus/

When you say cross browser, do you need NS4, and Opera as well? NS4
really makes things like this difficult...Opera just makes them
impossible :)

You may want to think about working with some kind of Blog software.
The next time I need to do a CMS, that's one thing I want to
investigate. I'm sure that some blog software out there can be
programmed to interface with a CGI script like CF.

--
 jon
 mailto:jonhall at ozline.net

Monday, August 12, 2002, 6:23:01 PM, you wrote:

F> A couple of years back, I had written a content management system. Very
F> good for a first try, but now I feel like starting from scratch with to
F> apply what I've learned since then. There are two issues that have
F> always  vexed me, and I was wondering if someone could offer some suggestions.

F> 1) Images in the body of an article.
F> Up to this date, my system permitted one image per article, as defined by a
F> template. I would like to allow the non-technical user to simply choose to
F> upload an image and have it inserted in the middle of an article. (The
F> article is typed or pasted into a large text-area, right now.) How can I
F> have multiple images intermingled with copy, that is not based on a hard
F> coded template?

F> One solution I thought of, but seems a too clumsy to me is to return a
F> 'code' (eg:   [[261-2.jpg]]  ) and have the user paste it in, but that
F> seems a little complex for some of my users (trust me, they would muck it up).

F> 2) Javascript: Getting a selection.
F> I've wanted to allow the user to bold, or italicise text by selecting
F> the  the string, and clicking a button or image. Much like your typical
F> text editor UI. I know I can use MS specific code. Not good enough. Cross
F> browser compatible is necessary. I can certainly manipulate the string,
F> it's a matter of getting the current selection that stumps me.



From erick_papadakis at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 12 19:23:01 2002
From: erick_papadakis at yahoo.com (Erick Papadakis)
Date: Mon Aug 12 19:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL help -- replacing OR to use index
Message-ID: <20020813002148.75710.qmail@web10704.mail.yahoo.com>

 p.s., if you reply, kindly CC me as well.

hi, i have the following SQL query

  select col1 from table1
  where
  col2 = 'xxx' or col3 = 'xxx'

how can i get rid of this OR? due to my table design and the logic
involved, i have to check both these 2 columns (in a search function). i
cannot concaneate them to make a third column because i need to check for
exact match but for both the columns.

the EXPLAIN in mysql gives me the "ALL" type, which of course is not
optimal. if i remove the OR in the above SQL, and make only one
condition, then this EXPLAIN comes back as "const". this is ideal! and
what i want.

so what can i do to replace the OR? in a curious fit i tried :

  select col1 from table1
  where
  'xxx' in (col2, col3)

and to my surprise this works!!! but the EXPLAIN returns "ALL" again. so
it is useless..

thanks in advance for any insight/ideas!

.ep



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From wallace.wayne at usa.net  Mon Aug 12 19:26:10 2002
From: wallace.wayne at usa.net (Wallace Design)
Date: Mon Aug 12 19:26:10 2002
Subject: [thelist] [OT] looking for volunteers to take my survey - for a school paper
In-Reply-To: <200208122310.g7CNAw905718@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <B6461CA0-AE52-11D6-9DFF-00039384AB02@usa.net>

Hello,

I'm doing a paper for school and need to survey as many people as
possible about computers and software. It doesn't matter how experienced
you are or what you do for a living. Just answer the questions as
completely and as honestly as possible.  Please send your completed
survey to me @ wallace.wayne at usa.net. Thank you for you time. This
information will only be used for my paper and you may be quoted if you
have something particularly good to say so let me know if it is ok to
quote and cite you in my paper. If the paper turns out well enough it
may be posted on my web site www.waynewallace.com

I would need you input by 8/14/2002 if possible, thanks.

Survey
1 . Can I qoute and cite you in my paper?
2. What is your name?
3. What do you do for a living?
4. What type of computer do you prefer to use Mac, PC or Other?
5. Why did you choose the computer platform that you use?
6. Do you think that software in general is to expensive?
7. Why do you generally upgrade your software?
8. Have you had problems migrating data from one software system to
another?
9. Have you ever been stuck with a product that is no longer made or
supported?
10. Do you know what open standards are? Y/N
11. Do you believe that open standards are a good thing? Why?
12. Do you think it's ethical or right that a software company can force
you to continue to use and or upgrade their software because of
compatibility with their old software or that no other software will
reliably read and write their closed and proprietary data format?
13. Do you think companies should make their software available to
non-profits for no or little charge? Y/N
14. Do you think companies should make their software available to
students for no or little charge? Y/N
15. Do you use any Microsoft software in your business or home? What
software and Why?
16. What do you feel are the pros and cons of using Microsoft software?
17. Do you think that Microsoft is a Monopoly? Explain?
18. Do you think that Microsoft employs and unfair business tactics?
Explain?
19. Any general comments that you would like to make about Microsoft?
20. Do you know what OpenSource software is? Yes/No
21. Do you know of any companies that support the OpenSource Software
Initiative? Name some.
22. What do you think about the OpenSource movement?
23. What do you feel are the pros and cons of OpenSource software?
24. Do you think OpenSource is more cost effective for the end user and
why?
25. Do you feel that Microsoft is against the OpenSource movement and
why?
26. Do you think OpenSource software is as good or better than
commercial software? Why?
27. What types of software do you feel are valid for the OpenSource
style of development?
28. Does OpenSource hurt software compaines that want to make money?
Explain?
29. Do you use any OpenSource software in your business or home? What
and Why?
30. Any general comments that you would like to make about OpenSource?


<tip type="Graphics - Roll overs" author="Wayne Wallace">
Use plenty of contrast difference in for roll over items so color blind
people can see your effect. Did you know men are the most prone to color
blindness.
</tip>



From evoltlist at rogers.com  Mon Aug 12 20:52:01 2002
From: evoltlist at rogers.com (Ingrid Z)
Date: Mon Aug 12 20:52:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL 2000 update statement
Message-ID: <01eb01c2426c$83333e70$33c52a18@userf1xcwzruul>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Hi all,

Been lurking around, and haved learned so much from everybody!
I am stuck on a SQL update.
The scenario:
I am pulling product sales from my shopping cart table and inserting into another table. Each day, I grab the previous day's sales and copy into a summary table. This table gets downloaded daily to a text file. I want to subtotal the order for each user, but I don't do that in the original shopping cart table (orders are to be processed manually, not on-line).
I am trying to update the summary table with the order total for one user, in one column, even though that user may have bought 3 products, thus having 3 rows.

Right now, I can put the order total in each row with that user name. Is there a way to update only ONE column that has the same 'LastName", instead of updating all ?
Currently, am using this...
Update ProdSummary Set TheTotalOrder = @total where LastName = @last

I want to update only ONE row that has that LastName..

I have scanned the on-line help, but find no answers... and I really hate deadlines.

Can anyone (Rudy) help?

Thanks so much in advance for any/all replies,
Ingrid


--




From beau at members.evolt.org  Mon Aug 12 20:59:00 2002
From: beau at members.evolt.org (Beau Hartshorne)
Date: Mon Aug 12 20:59:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] mySQL queries
In-Reply-To: <01c24244$d0a55260$21eb059a@rudy>
Message-ID: <000f01c2426c$17b62770$cd71fea9@Cube>

> you cannot get away with that in a real database
>
> if there are multiple invoices per job, which one provides the
individual
> column values (billing_invoice.*)?  no individual values from the
invoice
> table should be available in the job_id groups...

OK, here's what I ended up with after adding client references, and
proper column names:



SELECT
	billing_client.name AS c_name,
	billing_job.name AS j_name,
	billing_job.amount AS j_amount,
	SUM(billing_invoice.amount) AS i_amount_sum
FROM
	billing_client
LEFT JOIN
	billing_job
ON
	(billing_client.client_id = billing_job.client_id)
LEFT JOIN
	billing_invoice
ON
	(billing_job.job_id = billing_invoice.job_id)
GROUP BY
	billing_job.job_id
HAVING
	j_amount > i_amount_sum



There can be more than one invoice per job, and more than one job per
customer.

This is what the mySQL docs say:



MySQL has extended the use of GROUP BY. You can use columns or
calculations in the SELECT expressions that don't appear in the GROUP BY
part. This stands for any possible value for this group. You can use
this to get better performance by avoiding sorting and grouping on
unnecessary items. For example, you don't need to group on customer.name
in the following query:

mysql> SELECT order.custid,customer.name,MAX(payments)
    ->        FROM order,customer
    ->        WHERE order.custid = customer.custid
    ->        GROUP BY order.custid;

In ANSI SQL, you would have to add customer.name to the GROUP BY clause.
In MySQL, the name is redundant if you don't run in ANSI mode.



For the sake of interest, what's the Best Way to write this query?
Should I add more detail to my GROUP BY clause? Or is that unnecessary
because I haven't SELECTed any non-aggregate columns from the invoice
table?

BTW, I'd like to make it clear that my goal here is to be educated, not
to be a pain in the ass.

Thanks,

Beau




From toddmanaze at ev1.net  Mon Aug 12 21:01:57 2002
From: toddmanaze at ev1.net (ToddManaze)
Date: Mon Aug 12 21:01:57 2002
Subject: [thelist] Invoice and Timeline for Web site
Message-ID: <000001c24249$aff637f0$82614442@AUBREYTODDATX>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
I have landed my first "freelance" job and I am unfamiliar with the
business side. It is a lot harder than I expected, they client has asked
for an invoice containing pricing for everything and time line for the
project. What should the invoice look like? I would like to see an
example! I am looking for any helpful information. Thanks



Todd

--



From framar at interlog.com  Mon Aug 12 21:23:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Mon Aug 12 21:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: CMS Tips and Tricks?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020812175116.049f0d30@mail.imaginuity.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812181219.00a9bd68@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812221950.00a9fc20@mail.interlog.com>

At 05:55 PM 8/12/2002 -0500, you wrote:
 > Sounds like you might want to consider using a
 > browser-based WYSIWYG editor. They are *far* from perfect
 > (as you might imagine), but they can do things like this.
 > They also integrate well with ColdFusion.

Thanks, but they both break the cardinal rule: Cross browser compatibility
(Neither work in Moz or NS6+). But I'll do a search for the terms
"browser-based WYSIWYG editor"


Frank Marion
framar at interlog.com





From evolt at funkwit.com  Mon Aug 12 21:28:01 2002
From: evolt at funkwit.com (Paul Cowan)
Date: Mon Aug 12 21:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL 2000 update statement
References: <01eb01c2426c$83333e70$33c52a18@userf1xcwzruul>
Message-ID: <02df01c24270$7ea15d70$3e02a8c0@cusack>

Ingrid Z wrote:
> Right now, I can put the order total in each row with that user name.
> Is there a way to update only ONE column that has the same 'LastName",
> instead of updating all ?
> Currently, am using this...
> Update ProdSummary Set TheTotalOrder = @total where LastName = @last
>
> I want to update only ONE row that has that LastName..

Well, that kind of depends. So you've got a table (ProdSummary) with
something like:
   TheTotalOrder   FirstName   LastName
   -------------   ---------   --------
   $151.90         Mary        Smith
   $75.20          Mary        Smith
   $11.10          Joe         Jones
   $58.95          Mary        Smith

yes?

And you want to update, say, the second row from $75.20 to $78.50? Is this
the kind of thing we're talking about?

To do this kind of thing, you really need more data in the table. What's
the primary key into the "Sales" table (or whatever)? Is there a "SalesID"
or something like that? As it stands, there's no real way of (reliably)
doing
this, unless there are other fields that uniquely identify a given sale.

Unless I've misinterpreted what you want, in which case, sorry.

Paul Cowan



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Mon Aug 12 21:40:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Mon Aug 12 21:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: CMS Tips and Tricks?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812221950.00a9fc20@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPEECJGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

frank,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Frank
>
> Thanks, but they both break the cardinal rule: Cross
> browser compatibility (Neither work in Moz or NS6+).
> But I'll do a search for the terms "browser-based
> WYSIWYG editor"
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

you're searching for the holy grail.  it just doesn't exist yet in any sort of mature form.  there are a few examples you'll find of some *very* basic offerings that provide similar support in ns6/moz, but i promise you'll be highly disappointed (believe me, i've been looking for a *long* time).

for the sort of functionality you're seeking you're stuck with one of two options -- java and flash.

all the java ones i've seen have left me less than impressed.  i have seen two flash implementations but they're far from complete.

http://www.active-web.cc/html/wysiwyg/
http://www.illogicz.com/flashmx/texteditor/

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From r937 at interlog.com  Mon Aug 12 21:44:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Mon Aug 12 21:44:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mySQL queries
Message-ID: <01c24272$9d59acc0$b2e6059a@rudy>

> For the sake of interest, what's the Best Way to write this query?

always match the GROUP BY to the SELECT

> Should I add more detail to my GROUP BY clause? Or is that
> unnecessary because I haven't SELECTed any non-aggregate
> columns from the invoice table?

doesn't matter where they come from, all non-aggregate columns in the
SELECT list should be in the GROUP BY

i'm pretty sure your query will still work right if you fix it

it's a good habit to get into, and will avoid those situations where "any
possible value for this group" are not what you expect -- which could
happen easily when one-to-many relationships are involved

rudy



From r937 at interlog.com  Mon Aug 12 21:51:00 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Mon Aug 12 21:51:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL 2000 update statement
Message-ID: <01c24274$257d3f80$b2e6059a@rudy>

what's the query to create each day's data in the summary table? do you
need to keep the detail rows in the summary table?

if not, try

  insert into summary (custname, ordertotal)
    select custname, sum(orderamt)
  from orders
     group by custname

rudy



From pkaulbak at idirect.ca  Mon Aug 12 21:58:01 2002
From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback)
Date: Mon Aug 12 21:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Table title and table summary usage
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020812225427.035be7c8@mail.idirect.ca>

What is the acceptance of table title and summary in new browsers across
the platforms and also is there any conflicts one should be aware of before
including them into code?
A client wishes to cover as many possible groups as we can with the code.
Thanks,

Peter Kaulback



From jobcoach at bellatlantic.net  Mon Aug 12 22:24:01 2002
From: jobcoach at bellatlantic.net (Dona)
Date: Mon Aug 12 22:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] virtual private server recommendations
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020812154234.0260d4b0@tookish.net>
Message-ID: <02b901c24278$726007c0$39e9c797@DONADAVIS>

Try http://www.m6.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "noah" <noah at tookish.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 4:16 PM
Subject: [thelist] virtual private server recommendations


> I'm looking for a reasonable solution for hosting and administrating
> multiple sites (about 10 right now, hopefully continuing to grow).
>
> I am currently using a Vserver, but in the year or so that I've had it the
> company has changed hands twice -- I'm now, through no choice of my own, a
> typically unimpressed Interland customer (example: my server runs a
> three-year old beta version of PHP4 which Interland won't upgrade because
> they're not supporting "legacy" hosts).
>
> I'm leaning toward a "virtual private server" -- I've done some research,
> and so far I've been most impressed by Remarkable Hosting
> (http://www.remarkablehosting.com/) and OnSmart (http://www.onsmart.net/).
> Does anyone have any experience (good or bad) with either of these
companies?
>
> Rackshack (http://www.rackshack.net/) has dedicated servers for not much
> more money, but all of the sites I'm currently hosting are fairly
> low-traffic, and a dedicated server might be overkill. Also, as far as I
> can tell from the Rackshack site, I would be responsible for software
> updates, etc. -- that stuff is taken care of with a virtual private
server,
> which is nice.
>
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Cheers,
> Noah
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From g1notami at zoominternet.net  Mon Aug 12 23:00:07 2002
From: g1notami at zoominternet.net (D. Bruce Saurer)
Date: Mon Aug 12 23:00:07 2002
Subject: [thelist] OT updating bios in win2kpro
Message-ID: <00bd01c24297$333680a0$6c7ba8c0@zoominternet.net>

I need to update the bios on an older MB.  The OS is Win2kPro.
I've used a boot disk and flash utility for Win98 but, that doesn't seem to
be an option with W2k.
Can anyone steer me in the right direction here?

<tip type="Custom Hotkeys in Photoshop">

While customized shortcuts have yet to make it into Photoshops repertoire,
frequently used commands can be recorded as actions, assigned a hotkey and
grouped into a set.

1. From the flyout at the top right of the actions palette choose "New Set",
name it and click OK.
2. Next choose "New Action", name it, choose your new set from the
drop-down, assign a function key, click "Record".
3. Execute a command(s) then click the stop button at the bottom-left of the
Actions palette.
4. Save the new set of "hotkeys" by highlighting the set and choosing "Save
Actions" from the flyout.

</tip>

thanks,
bruce
g1notami at zoominternet.net




From framar at interlog.com  Mon Aug 12 23:45:00 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Mon Aug 12 23:45:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: CMS Tips and Tricks?
In-Reply-To: <139872566293.20020812195600@ozline.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812181219.00a9bd68@mail.interlog.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020812181219.00a9bd68@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812222522.00a75a98@mail.interlog.com>

At 07:56 PM 8/12/2002 -0400, you wrote:
 > When you say cross browser, do you need NS4, and Opera as
 > well? NS4 really makes things like this difficult...Opera
 > just makes them impossible )

At least Explorer and NS/Moz. NS4.x is not an issue.

 > You may want to think about
 > working with some kind of Blog software. The next time I
 > need to do a CMS, that's one thing I want to investigate.
 > I'm sure that some blog software out there can be
 > programmed to interface with a CGI script like CF.

That's an interesting idea. I hadn't thought of that. The exercise is
really more about building the system myself. My job is not particularly
challenging, and so I'm looking to see how far I can push my skills.

Even though the example you've provided isn't Moz/NS compatible, it's
pretty darned cool. That's what I love about the net! I never would have
thought of that sort of implementation.



Frank Marion
framar at interlog.com





From framar at interlog.com  Tue Aug 13 00:08:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Tue Aug 13 00:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: CMS Tips and Tricks?
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPEECJGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812221950.00a9fc20@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020813005957.00adfad8@mail.interlog.com>

At 07:40 PM 8/12/2002 -0700, you wrote:
 > all the java ones i've seen have left me less than impressed.
 > i have  seen two flash implementations but they're far from complete.
 > http://www.illogicz.com/flashmx/texteditor/

This one completely rocks! You're right, it's incomplete. If it were, I'd
be happy to shell out a few buck for it.


Frank Marion
framar at interlog.com





From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Aug 13 00:48:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue Aug 13 00:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] OT updating bios in win2kpro
In-Reply-To: <00bd01c24297$333680a0$6c7ba8c0@zoominternet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812224512.01cb9410@baratta.com>

At 12:01 AM 8/13/2002, D. Bruce Saurer wrote:
>I need to update the bios on an older MB.  The OS is Win2kPro.
>I've used a boot disk and flash utility for Win98 but, that doesn't seem to
>be an option with W2k.
>Can anyone steer me in the right direction here?

You'll need a friend with Win98, create a new one. I always carry a Win98
DOS Boot diskette around for things like these.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 01:19:01 2002
From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr)
Date: Tue Aug 13 01:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Running msxml
In-Reply-To: <48869528035.20020812190522@ozline.net>
Message-ID: <000001c24290$503b1b90$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>

> You need to download both of the files he linked. MsXSL is a
standalone program and not distributed with MSXML, it comes  > in a zip
all by itself, and it's named msxsl.exe conveniently :). You will want
to run msxsl.exe with the command line    > that Brad posted.

I've got that too!  Argh??!!

So far, I've got msxml.msi (this gives me a Windows style installer),
msxsl.exe (this gives me a microsecond glimpse of my command prompt box,
and then nothing) and msxmlmsn.exe (this asks me where I want to place
my extracted files, and then gives me a .msn file).  Surely there can't
be anything else?  Maybe there is, because I can't find anything that
has asked me whether I want to run it side by side.

> What's the end goal here? Are you just learning XSL or are you
implementing something based using the command line       > program?
I've never done it that way...I prefer not to shell out for anything,
too much overhead (on Windows anyway).

I'm just trying to learn it, that's all.  Trying to run it as msxml.exe
(as has also been suggested, doesn't work)

> I think most people prefer to interface with MSXML via the COM
interface, for which you can find many examples of how to > transform an
XML doc using XSL (hint: transformNode()).

Hmm, learning here - that bit's over my head!

> My fav msxml reference.
http://www.devguru.com/Technologies/xmldom/quickref/xmldom_intro.html

Thanks, I'll have a read!

Regards

Francis




From jonhall at ozline.net  Tue Aug 13 01:44:01 2002
From: jonhall at ozline.net (Jon Hall)
Date: Tue Aug 13 01:44:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: CMS Tips and Tricks?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812222522.00a75a98@mail.interlog.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812181219.00a9bd68@mail.interlog.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020812181219.00a9bd68@mail.interlog.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020812222522.00a75a98@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <46165266771.20020813024244@ozline.net>

It does work in a nightly from about a week ago...I just checked.

--
jon
mailto:jonhall at ozline.net

Tuesday, August 13, 2002, 12:43:41 AM, you wrote:

F> Even though the example you've provided isn't Moz/NS compatible, it's
F> pretty darned cool. That's what I love about the net! I never would have
F> thought of that sort of implementation.



F> Frank Marion
F> framar at interlog.com



From jonhall at ozline.net  Tue Aug 13 02:05:00 2002
From: jonhall at ozline.net (Jon Hall)
Date: Tue Aug 13 02:05:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Running msxml
In-Reply-To: <000001c24290$503b1b90$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>
References: <000001c24290$503b1b90$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>
Message-ID: <65166550406.20020813030407@ozline.net>

Good, sounds like you have everything then. MsXSL is a command line
program, there is no GUI. You need to run it from a dos window.

Another way to play with XSL is to use IE to show the output. IE6
comes with MsXML 3 embedded. That's what it uses to parse XML/XSL.
In your XML document link you xsl document just like you would a css
page for html. IE will automatically parse and display your
transformed XML. I'd say you should start out using IE, and not worry
about the parsers right now.

Example:
<?xml:stylesheet type="text/xsl" href="myxsldoc.xsl"?>

Great XSL Tutorial. Lots more at this site too.
http://www.topxml.com/xsl/tutorials/intro/xsl1.asp


You really should get a book though, I highly recommend Beginning XML
from Wrox. It covers all the bases, and doesn't get crazy. There is a
command line XSL parser that he uses in the book to guide you through
the basics that is very easy to figure out. Unfortunately the book is
at work and I am not, or I'd give you a link to it :)
O'Reilly's XSLT is a good XSLT book when you want to get deep into
XSLT.

--
jon
mailto:jonhall at ozline.net

Tuesday, August 13, 2002, 2:11:48 AM, you wrote:

>> You need to download both of the files he linked. MsXSL is a
f> standalone program and not distributed with MSXML, it comes  > in a zip
f> all by itself, and it's named msxsl.exe conveniently :). You will want
f> to run msxsl.exe with the command line    > that Brad posted.

f> I've got that too!  Argh??!!

f> So far, I've got msxml.msi (this gives me a Windows style installer),
f> msxsl.exe (this gives me a microsecond glimpse of my command prompt box,
f> and then nothing) and msxmlmsn.exe (this asks me where I want to place
f> my extracted files, and then gives me a .msn file).  Surely there can't
f> be anything else?  Maybe there is, because I can't find anything that
f> has asked me whether I want to run it side by side.

>> What's the end goal here? Are you just learning XSL or are you
f> implementing something based using the command line       > program?
f> I've never done it that way...I prefer not to shell out for anything,
f> too much overhead (on Windows anyway).

f> I'm just trying to learn it, that's all.  Trying to run it as msxml.exe
f> (as has also been suggested, doesn't work)

>> I think most people prefer to interface with MSXML via the COM
f> interface, for which you can find many examples of how to > transform an
f> XML doc using XSL (hint: transformNode()).

f> Hmm, learning here - that bit's over my head!

>> My fav msxml reference.
f> http://www.devguru.com/Technologies/xmldom/quickref/xmldom_intro.html

f> Thanks, I'll have a read!

f> Regards

f> Francis



From framar at interlog.com  Tue Aug 13 02:30:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Tue Aug 13 02:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Data Protection Act
In-Reply-To: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAECEAIEOAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>
References: <4.2.0.58.20020812113524.016b9440@mail.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020813032314.00aba190@mail.interlog.com>

At 12:14 PM 8/12/2002 +0100, you wrote:
 > As our webservers are now UK based we feel we need to make
 > our clients aware of the Data Protection Act and it's
 > impact on them. To this end I've written a brief primer to
 > the subject and was hoping for some feedback on it...

 From Canada: I found it to be very accessible. It's brief, salient and
easy to read. It's nice to have such a primer. Even though I'm in Canada,
it keeps me up to date.

<tip type="Internet Legal Issues" author="Frank Marion">

It's a good idea to keep up to date on the laws and regulations concerning
the net and development from other countries. Not only does it impress the
heck out of clients, but if you choose to voluntarily adopt or conform to
them, you're in good shape should your country adopt similar measures.
Furthermore, it's a simple act of good-will towards them-over-there that
shares this here little chunk o' space known as "Earth".

</tip>



Frank Marion
framar at interlog.com





From luminosity at members.evolt.org  Tue Aug 13 02:37:00 2002
From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Tue Aug 13 02:37:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] quick [label] question
References: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0208121831340.31889-100000@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>
Message-ID: <3D58B614.10707@members.evolt.org>


Jonathon Isaac Swiderski wrote:
> can anyone tell me quickly why the <label> on
> http://cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders/f2o/other/volmatch.htm
> doesn't show up in NS 6.2?  It works in IE5/6 and NC4
> (sortof) but there's no <label> (the "Enter ZIP" text)
> in NS 6.

There was a bug with styling label in one version of N6.. it makes the
label disappear. To bve safe you have to surround the label with a span
and style that.

--
Lach
__________________________________________
Web: http://illuminosity.net/
E-mail: lach at illuminosity.net
MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
__________________________________________




From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Tue Aug 13 03:18:01 2002
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Tue Aug 13 03:18:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Invoice and Timeline for Web site
References: <000001c24249$aff637f0$82614442@AUBREYTODDATX>
Message-ID: <072e01c242a1$915638b0$c703c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

Hi,
I expect they want a document breaking the project down into deliverables.
The actual invoices follow later.

You should basically put together a document scoping the project. This
should be quite detailed, and should be done with the necessary care. when
finished they will review it, maybe suggest some changes, and finally both
parties should sign this. An example layout would be:

CustomerX Website Proposal:

a)Introduction:
This document represents the scope and timeline for
completing the companyX website project etc etc

Project timeline:
1) Research (deliverable) 16 hours
    A two day factory visit + brainstorming sessions
    with section managers etc

2) Planning (deliverable) 20 hours
    The basic site architecture will be decided + sketches etc

3) etc etc

If scoping the whole project is hard, you can break it down into separate
phases.

Payment:
    An hourly rate is set at: $X
    CustomerX agrees to pay $2000 advance at the signing
    of this document.
    CustomerX agrees to pay monthly invoices for deliverables
    completed in that month, as submitted by contractorY.
    Invoices are to be paid within a 30 day period.

 Security:
    ContractorY assumes no liability for system security
    outside of it?s direct control. etc ect

Hardware and Domain Name:
    Who pays for and arranges the server, and the domain name?

Other legal provisions might be necessary, depending on the scope of the
project you might want to check with a layer, especially if e-commerce is
involved.

--------

When I send an actual invoice for payment, I don't write much detail on the
invoice, just something like:

CompanyX website project, deliverable 6, 7 and 8 as agreed in
cumentX -   -   -   $XXXX

(Plus your company details, preferred payment method (checks should be made
payable to ....), payment period etc)
The above are just some points... more is involved, so some help from a
local "starting business help" might be required.

Cheers,
Richard.

----- Original Message -----
From: "ToddManaze" <toddmanaze at ev1.net>
I have landed my first "freelance" job and I am unfamiliar with the
business side. It is a lot harder than I expected, they client has asked
for an invoice containing pricing for everything and time line for the
project. What should the invoice look like? I would like to see an
example! I am looking for any helpful information. Thanks




From robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 03:26:01 2002
From: robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk (Rob Wilson)
Date: Tue Aug 13 03:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] OT updating bios in win2kpro
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812224512.01cb9410@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <00b901c242a2$deb90dc0$2c01020a@Beanstalk>

>You'll need a friend with Win98, create a new one. I always carry a Win98
>DOS Boot diskette around for things like these.

Or alternatively you can get bootdisk images from http://www.bootdisk.com

HTH

Rob




From minid at weblogs.com.ar  Tue Aug 13 03:35:01 2002
From: minid at weblogs.com.ar (Minid Weblogs)
Date: Tue Aug 13 03:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] problem using divs with moz
In-Reply-To: <00b901c242a2$deb90dc0$2c01020a@Beanstalk>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812224512.01cb9410@baratta.com>
 <00b901c242a2$deb90dc0$2c01020a@Beanstalk>
Message-ID: <1277127812.20020715103341@weblogs.com.ar>

Estimate List,

I don't know if someone can correct me, I'm testing new ways of make
websites using divs... the problem is on IE i get all I want... but in
Mozilla jeez!.

www.minid.net/2 this is a test... as you can see in IE 6 or 5.5 all
the divs nest perfectly, IE respects almost all margins rules... but
in Mozilla everything overlaps, and some above divs goes on top... i
want something fluid and I've tried many ways to get a good result and
nothing...

Maybe you can see what i am doing wrong....

cheers



--
Salutes,
 Diego                            mailto:diego at cercleweb.com



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Tue Aug 13 03:57:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Tue Aug 13 03:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: CMS Tips and Tricks?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812222522.00a75a98@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPCECPGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

frank,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Frank
>
> Even though the example you've provided isn't Moz/NS
> compatible, it's pretty darned cool. That's what I love
> about the net! I never would have thought of that sort
> of implementation.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

actually, if you follow the directions exactly, it works.  you have to turn on the system caret so you can see when you click into the editable fields (purple rectangles).

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From adrinux at ntlworld.com  Tue Aug 13 04:30:01 2002
From: adrinux at ntlworld.com (Adrian Simmons)
Date: Tue Aug 13 04:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] The great gecko swtich begins - AOL for OS X released
Message-ID: <3D58D178.4050609@ntlworld.com>

Since no one else has mentioned it yet...

AOL has just released their AOL software for OS X, this is based on the
Gecko layout engine (the prefs look scarily like those in Mozilla on X),
   so it looks like the resurgence of 'Netscape' browsers is about to
begin - and that standards compliant cross browser coding really is
about to get more important.

Download page:
<http://free.aol.com/tryaolfree/dnld_aol/download_aol.adp#mac_os_x>

Adrian



From carole at pixeltable.com  Tue Aug 13 06:04:00 2002
From: carole at pixeltable.com (carole guevin)
Date: Tue Aug 13 06:04:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] back web?
In-Reply-To: <3D563F27.16134.B63ECE0C@localhost>
Message-ID: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJGEFPEEAA.carole@pixeltable.com>

hi everyone,

can somebody explain what a registry key referring to *Backweb* means? Which
programs use this - the only reference I see in the multiple keys is to
Logitech (mouse and keyboard). I've made a google search and I don't like
what I read about the company.  Is this part of the infiltrating .exe that
dumps code on our machine and channel back some info? Can I safely delete
this.  Also there were a couple other weird entries relating to simcard???
I run XP.

altogether on another matter - I had the pleasure of interviewing a great
innovator that sheds light on what business around the world is made of -
staggering figures that shows that over 80% of companies are 20 and less
employees in size.  Since I am an avid promoter and believer that small is
beautiful and that YES we can make a difference.  If you are interested url
to interview is - http://netdiver.net/interviews/renebarsalo.php

.c



From dbaxo at ihug.co.nz  Tue Aug 13 06:13:01 2002
From: dbaxo at ihug.co.nz (Duncan O'Neill)
Date: Tue Aug 13 06:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] DOM: accessing properties of "group" array
References: <20020812180810.6120.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3D58E9E3.9070404@ihug.co.nz>

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
> Listers,
>
> I'm working on a script that will allow me to highlight a row in a
> table with styles. In doing this, I'm grabbing the ID of the row I
> want to highlight. I then want to apply my CSS changes to the
> children of that row, the TD cells themselves.
>

Tom,

this might give you some ideas.
Works in PC/ IE5.5, Moz 1.0, Opera 6.0

<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>Changing bgColor</title>
<script language="Javascript" type="text/javascript">
<!--

function changeBgColor(hue){
   var TRobj = document.getElementById("therow");
   var TDobj = TRobj.getElementsByTagName("td");
   for (var i=0;i<TDobj.length;i++){
         TDobj.item(i).style.backgroundColor = '#' + hue;
     }
}

//-->
</script>
</head>
<body>

<table width="300" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tr id="therow" onmouseover="changeBgColor('ff0000');"
onmouseout="changeBgColor('0000ff');"><td>blah</td>
                 <td>blah</td>
	            <td>blah</td>
	            <td>blah</td></tr></table>

</body>
</html>

hth,
--
=====================================================
Duncan O'Neill
"Smith The Reporter"
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dbaxo/urban_legend.htm
=====================================================



From ben at inchima.com  Tue Aug 13 06:23:01 2002
From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips)
Date: Tue Aug 13 06:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] back web?
In-Reply-To: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJGEFPEEAA.carole@pixeltable.com>
Message-ID: <000801c242bb$b75b0b70$0300a8c0@BS>

> can somebody explain what a registry key referring to
> *Backweb* means? Which programs use this - the only reference
> I see in the multiple keys is to Logitech (mouse and
> keyboard). I've made a google search and I don't like what I
> read about the company.  Is this part of the infiltrating
> .exe that dumps code on our machine and channel back some
> info? Can I safely delete this.  Also there were a couple
> other weird entries relating to simcard??? I run XP.

<tip type="removing spyware" author="benji">
download lavasoft's ad-aware:
http://www.lsfileserv.com/aaw.html

it scans your memory, registry and drives for spyware and zaps most of
them.
</tip>

benji
inchima.com




From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Tue Aug 13 06:30:01 2002
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Tue Aug 13 06:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: CMS Tips and Tricks?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812181219.00a9bd68@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c242bc$c3db4fd0$8102a8c0@000347D72515>

[snip]
1) Images in the body of an article.
Up to this date, my system permitted one image per article, as defined by a
template. I would like to allow the non-technical user to simply choose to
upload an image and have it inserted in the middle of an article. (The
article is typed or pasted into a large text-area, right now.) How can I
have multiple images intermingled with copy, that is not based on a hard
coded template?

One solution I thought of, but seems a too clumsy to me is to return a
'code' (eg:   [[261-2.jpg]]  ) and have the user paste it in, but that
seems a little complex for some of my users (trust me, they would muck it
up).
[/snip]

If you are maintaining the images (image URL's actually) and the article in
a database you could do something such as this; (template pseudo-code, using
PHP)

<?php
print($ArticleTitle . "<br>\n");
print($Author . "<br>\n");

print($Image1URL . "<br>"\n); // first image at top of article

$paragraph_break = 1;

while(print($ArticleBody)){
   if($thisline == double_line_break){
      $paragraph_break++;
      if($paragraph_break == 3){
         print($Image2URL . "<br>\n"); // second image before paragraph 3
      }
   }
}
?>

I hope this gives you some ideas. Count the paragraph breaks and insert
images where you want them between paragraphs. You could also do the sam
thing for small images that are "within" paragraphs by counting lines in the
body.

HTH!

Jay




From luminosity at members.evolt.org  Tue Aug 13 06:37:00 2002
From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Tue Aug 13 06:37:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mozilla is giving me strange errors
Message-ID: <3D58EDF5.9000109@members.evolt.org>

Does anyone know why Mozilla isn't displaying my page
http://luminosity.f2o.org/thoughts/admin/add/ ?

PS Yes I'm aware that not delivering the file as application/xhtml+xml
will 'solve' the problem.. I want to know what's causing it, and be able
to fix that.

Thanks,
--
Lach
__________________________________________
Web: http://illuminosity.net/
E-mail: lach at illuminosity.net
MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
__________________________________________




From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Tue Aug 13 06:54:01 2002
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Tue Aug 13 06:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: CMS Tips and Tricks?
In-Reply-To: <000b01c242bc$c3db4fd0$8102a8c0@000347D72515>
Message-ID: <000c01c242c0$19f42560$8102a8c0@000347D72515>

[snip]
I would like to allow the non-technical user to simply choose to
upload an image and have it inserted in the middle of an article.
[/snip]

Dang, I should read this more closely, I missed the point which is allowing
the user to choose an image. The pseudo-code I provided before will send you
in the right direction for placing the image, but selection is a horse of a
different color.

Let's say the article has no images associated with it through some ID
column between tables. So we want to do this...

+---------+     +--------+     +---------+
| Article |     | Select |     | Output  |
|  Input  |---->| Images |---->| Article |
|         |     |        |     |         |
+---------+     +--------+     +---------+

Article could be submitted to hidden form fields until images (actually
image URL's) are selected and then all can be written to the database.
Images could be thumbs with checkboxes or number lists (1st Pic, 2nd Pic,
etc.) so that images could be selected independent of the article. Can also
serve for update purposes.

HTH!

Jay




From andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 07:06:01 2002
From: andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Aug 13 07:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <20020812213217.91322.qmail@web13503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEDDDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>

this is really useful and helped alot, however I had better run this by you.

The form I am using already has an email field which I dont want to change,
except to add a little tick box next to it.  This is the existing form element
in form 1.

<TR><TD>E-mail Address</TD><TD><input name="Email" size="30"></TD></TR>


I have added some code into the form 2 but everything else doesn't work!  the
form is being used as an order form so when the code is added the order info
isn't being sent, which indicated the adding to a mailing list code is disabling
the other code?  Which doesn't seem logical!

Andrew


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of jon steele
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 10:32
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


Hey Andrew,

Sure you can.

Create a checkbox in the form:

<input type="checkbox" name="addToList" value="yes">

Then on the receiving page...

if(isset($addToList) && $addToList == "yes"){
   //assuming there's a form field called email
   $throwItIn = mysql_query("insert into mylistofemails
values('".$_POST['email']."');
}


--- Andrew Maynes <andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> glad we are back online, is it just me or is everyoner getting 2-3 mails of
the
> same post?
>
> anyway here is the question, I have a form that I would like to get the email
> inserted into a MySQL db is this possible?  I mean possible to use the
existing
> form elements and adding a tick box sent me a weekly newsletter?
>
> Thank you
>
> Andrew
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
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--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02



From andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 07:45:01 2002
From: andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Aug 13 07:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <3D584351.7070902@star-chaser.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEDFDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>

this is really useful too, however it is kicking out this

Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result resource

any ideas?

Thank you

Andrew



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Gary Bland
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 12:23
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


Andrew Maynes wrote:
> Hi all
>
> glad we are back online, is it just me or is everyoner getting 2-3 mails of
the
> same post?
>
> anyway here is the question, I have a form that I would like to get the email
> inserted into a MySQL db is this possible?  I mean possible to use the
existing
> form elements and adding a tick box sent me a weekly newsletter?
>
> Thank you
>
> Andrew
> ---

Yes but you really need to check to see if the email address is already
there so you don't end up with someone putting the same email address in
several times. Here is one Of mine just adjust the INSERT to fit your need.

$sql = "SELECT email FROM TableName WHERE
          email='$email'";
         $result=mysql_query($sql);
         $num=mysql_numrows($result);
         if ($num > 0)
             echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        else {

$sql = "INSERT INTO TableName(name,email,phone,company,message) VALUES
('$name','$email','$phone','$company','$message')";



--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From list01 at theparagon.org  Tue Aug 13 08:11:13 2002
From: list01 at theparagon.org ({ schaapy })
Date: Tue Aug 13 08:11:13 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS: colour attributes
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020810024508.00a8e688@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <B97E77A2.996%list01@theparagon.org>

All it is - is shorthand.

#ffffff = #fff
#ff0000 = #f00
#336699 = #369

What's happening is your six digit hex numbers are being but down into
simpler terms.

You're browser knows that #fff means #ffffff.

This isn't really a big deal unless you're writing ALOT of CSS - then it's
nice to cut out characters to save space.

Or course things like #c5ccdf; can't really be shortened so they are simply
left in their full state.


---------------------
Aaron Schaap
www.theparagon.org


> From: Frank <framar at interlog.com>
> Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 03:20:55 -0400
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] CSS: colour attributes
>
>
> As far as I understand, colour can be specified in a number of ways in HTML
> and CSS
>
> "white"   a limited number of named colours.
>
> "#FFFFFF" hexadecimal, three groups of two.
>
> rgb(255,255,255) three groups representing, red, green blue.
>
> I've been seeing this "#FFF" all over the place for a long time. At first,
> I thought that it was simply sloppy code. Then I found Eric Meyer using it.
> I can't seem to find a reference that details the composition of the
> statement, even on the w3c. I'm feeling kind'a stumped, kind'a dumb.
>
> Can someone point me in the right direction?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Frank Marion
> framar at interlog.com
>
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>



From mliotta at r337.com  Tue Aug 13 08:17:45 2002
From: mliotta at r337.com (Matt Liotta)
Date: Tue Aug 13 08:17:45 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: CMS Tips and Tricks?
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPEECJGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <001b01c2428f$1bd1b540$6401a8c0@FREEWILL>

My company has a Flash MX based front-end for our CMS/Portal system that
includes a WYSIWYG HTML editor.

Matt Liotta
President & CEO
Montara Software, Inc.
http://www.montarasoftware.com/
V: 415-577-8070
F: 415-341-8906
P: 4155778070 at messaging.sprintpcs.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]
> On Behalf Of .jeff
> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 7:40 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] CF: CMS Tips and Tricks?
>
> frank,
>
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > From: Frank
> >
> > Thanks, but they both break the cardinal rule: Cross
> > browser compatibility (Neither work in Moz or NS6+).
> > But I'll do a search for the terms "browser-based
> > WYSIWYG editor"
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> you're searching for the holy grail.  it just doesn't exist yet in any
> sort of mature form.  there are a few examples you'll find of some
*very*
> basic offerings that provide similar support in ns6/moz, but i promise
> you'll be highly disappointed (believe me, i've been looking for a
*long*
> time).
>
> for the sort of functionality you're seeking you're stuck with one of
two
> options -- java and flash.
>
> all the java ones i've seen have left me less than impressed.  i have
seen
> two flash implementations but they're far from complete.
>
> http://www.active-web.cc/html/wysiwyg/
> http://www.illogicz.com/flashmx/texteditor/
>
> .jeff
>
> http://evolt.org/
> jeff at members.evolt.org
> http://members.evolt.org/jeff/
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From nansmith at heritageconcord.org  Tue Aug 13 08:20:37 2002
From: nansmith at heritageconcord.org (Nan Smith)
Date: Tue Aug 13 08:20:37 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEDFDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BDEGINKLKKDNIMKNAMKNCEGDCAAA.nansmith@heritageconcord.org>

Why don't you try:

$sql = "SELECT email FROM TableName WHERE
          email='$email'";
         $result=mysql_query($sql);
         if ($result){

             echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
{
        else {

$sql = "INSERT INTO TableName(name,email,phone,company,message) VALUES
('$name','$email','$phone','$company','$message')";
}
If there is a match, then there is a result, and the number of rows does
not matter.

Nan

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 8:47 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


this is really useful too, however it is kicking out this

Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result
resource

any ideas?

Thank you

Andrew



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Gary Bland
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 12:23
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


Andrew Maynes wrote:
> Hi all
>
> glad we are back online, is it just me or is everyoner getting 2-3
mails of
the
> same post?
>
> anyway here is the question, I have a form that I would like to get the
email
> inserted into a MySQL db is this possible?  I mean possible to use the
existing
> form elements and adding a tick box sent me a weekly newsletter?
>
> Thank you
>
> Andrew
> ---

Yes but you really need to check to see if the email address is already
there so you don't end up with someone putting the same email address in
several times. Here is one Of mine just adjust the INSERT to fit your
need.

$sql = "SELECT email FROM TableName WHERE
          email='$email'";
         $result=mysql_query($sql);
         $num=mysql_numrows($result);
         if ($num > 0)
             echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        else {

$sql = "INSERT INTO TableName(name,email,phone,company,message) VALUES
('$name','$email','$phone','$company','$message')";



--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

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From richardgray at onetel.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 08:22:46 2002
From: richardgray at onetel.co.uk (Rich Gray)
Date: Tue Aug 13 08:22:46 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEDFDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <EDEGIPFFGBJHCIJCMPKOEEMDCFAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>

You've probably got a syntax error somewhere in your sql query so can you
post the code before the error?
What does echo mysql_error() just after the mysql_query line display?

Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: 13 August 2002 05:47
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


this is really useful too, however it is kicking out this

Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result
resource

any ideas?

Thank you

Andrew



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Gary Bland
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 12:23
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


Andrew Maynes wrote:
> Hi all
>
> glad we are back online, is it just me or is everyoner getting 2-3 mails
of
the
> same post?
>
> anyway here is the question, I have a form that I would like to get the
email
> inserted into a MySQL db is this possible?  I mean possible to use the
existing
> form elements and adding a tick box sent me a weekly newsletter?
>
> Thank you
>
> Andrew
> ---

Yes but you really need to check to see if the email address is already
there so you don't end up with someone putting the same email address in
several times. Here is one Of mine just adjust the INSERT to fit your need.

$sql = "SELECT email FROM TableName WHERE
          email='$email'";
         $result=mysql_query($sql);
         $num=mysql_numrows($result);
         if ($num > 0)
             echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        else {

$sql = "INSERT INTO TableName(name,email,phone,company,message) VALUES
('$name','$email','$phone','$company','$message')";



--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02

--
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the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 08:30:01 2002
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Tue Aug 13 08:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] US based ASP hosting
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEDFDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEOEEEEOAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>

Hi all

Could someone recommend some ASP hosting where the servers are in the US.
It's for a few simple sites, just needs to support SSL for one of the sites.
Ideally cheap but with good support.

Norman



From Gary at star-chaser.com  Tue Aug 13 08:36:00 2002
From: Gary at star-chaser.com (Gary Bland)
Date: Tue Aug 13 08:36:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEDFDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3D590AFC.3000302@star-chaser.com>

Andrew Maynes wrote:
> this is really useful too, however it is kicking out this
>
> Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result resource
>
> any ideas?
>
> Thank you
>
> Andrew
>

I didn't know you needed all the code.I posted it as an example. Just
add this line to the end of it

$result = mysql_query($sql) or die ("couldn't execute query");

Gary


--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today



From andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 08:44:55 2002
From: andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Aug 13 08:44:55 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <BDEGINKLKKDNIMKNAMKNCEGDCAAA.nansmith@heritageconcord.org>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKEDKDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>

this produces this

Parse error: parse error, unexpected T_ELSE in

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Nan Smith
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 02:13
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


Why don't you try:

$sql = "SELECT email FROM TableName WHERE
          email='$email'";
         $result=mysql_query($sql);
         if ($result){

             echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
{
        else {

$sql = "INSERT INTO TableName(name,email,phone,company,message) VALUES
('$name','$email','$phone','$company','$message')";
}
If there is a match, then there is a result, and the number of rows does
not matter.

Nan

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 8:47 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


this is really useful too, however it is kicking out this

Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result
resource

any ideas?

Thank you

Andrew



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Gary Bland
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 12:23
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


Andrew Maynes wrote:
> Hi all
>
> glad we are back online, is it just me or is everyoner getting 2-3
mails of
the
> same post?
>
> anyway here is the question, I have a form that I would like to get the
email
> inserted into a MySQL db is this possible?  I mean possible to use the
existing
> form elements and adding a tick box sent me a weekly newsletter?
>
> Thank you
>
> Andrew
> ---

Yes but you really need to check to see if the email address is already
there so you don't end up with someone putting the same email address in
several times. Here is one Of mine just adjust the INSERT to fit your
need.

$sql = "SELECT email FROM TableName WHERE
          email='$email'";
         $result=mysql_query($sql);
         $num=mysql_numrows($result);
         if ($num > 0)
             echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        else {

$sql = "INSERT INTO TableName(name,email,phone,company,message) VALUES
('$name','$email','$phone','$company','$message')";



--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
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From andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 08:52:00 2002
From: andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Aug 13 08:52:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <EDEGIPFFGBJHCIJCMPKOEEMDCFAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEDMDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>

this 'Parse error: parse error, unexpected T_VARIABLE ' is displayed when I put
this
mysql_error() in and when its out this

Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result resource

is displayed

this is the code


include("settings.inc");

mysql_connect("$dbhost","$dbuser","$dbpass");

$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE
          email='$email'";
         $result=mysql_query($sql);
         $num=mysql_numrows($result);
         if ($num > 0)
             echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        else {

mysql_error()

$sql = "INSERT INTO mailinglux(email) VALUES
('$name')";


if(!EmailOK($email)) {

echo "The email address you submitted is not valid.";

exit;
}

mysql_db_query($dbname, "insert into mailinglux values('','$email')");
}


Thank you

Andrew





---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02



From stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com  Tue Aug 13 09:00:42 2002
From: stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com (DESCHAMPS =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?= DvSI/SICoR)
Date: Tue Aug 13 09:00:42 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: CMS Tips and Tricks?
In-Reply-To: <001b01c2428f$1bd1b540$6401a8c0@FREEWILL>
Message-ID: <004401c242cf$f9d7d410$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw>

Jeff,

As for Java, I've been presented Instranet, it's done through a Java applet,
and it's really impressive, although very expensive. Cut-and-paste complex
data (tables PLUS images PLUS formatted text) and there was no
layman-perceivable loss.

(of course what I say represents my opinion and not my company's and blah
blah blah, and I'm not affiliated in any way blah blah blah)

> > all the java ones i've seen have left me less than
> impressed.  i have
> seen
> > two flash implementations but they're far from complete.
> >
> > http://www.active-web.cc/html/wysiwyg/
> > http://www.illogicz.com/flashmx/texteditor/



From auguste at mac.com  Tue Aug 13 09:09:01 2002
From: auguste at mac.com (Androse)
Date: Tue Aug 13 09:09:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] back web?
In-Reply-To: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJGEFPEEAA.carole@pixeltable.com>
References: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJGEFPEEAA.carole@pixeltable.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b08b97ec0c80e59@[192.168.0.10]>

Vu "[thelist] back web?", du 13/08/02 ? 7:02 -0400 :
>can somebody explain what a registry key referring to *Backweb* means? Which
>programs use this - the only reference I see in the multiple keys is to
>Logitech (mouse and keyboard).

Any connection with the 'BackWeb' application that pionneered Push
technology (remember that ? the huge Wired mag cover and all ? ah!)
along with comcast (i think)... ?


From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 13 09:15:16 2002
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Tue Aug 13 09:15:16 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEDDDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20020813135516.17162.qmail@web13501.mail.yahoo.com>

In this situation you could add the email to the database using another caller of some kind, like
a pop-up window.

<form name="myForm" onsubmit="if(documnet.myForm.addToEmailList.checked)
window.open('addToEmailList.php?email='+document.myform.email.value">

I don't understand how adding the code to insert the email into database on the next page in the
order will screw up the order code...you are simply adding an extra query to the rest of the php
script.

Anyway, hth.

--- Andrew Maynes <andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk> wrote:
> this is really useful and helped alot, however I had better run this by you.
>
> The form I am using already has an email field which I dont want to change,
> except to add a little tick box next to it.  This is the existing form element
> in form 1.
>
> <TR><TD>E-mail Address</TD><TD><input name="Email" size="30"></TD></TR>
>
>
> I have added some code into the form 2 but everything else doesn't work!  the
> form is being used as an order form so when the code is added the order info
> isn't being sent, which indicated the adding to a mailing list code is disabling
> the other code?  Which doesn't seem logical!
>
> Andrew
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of jon steele
> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 10:32
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
>
>
> Hey Andrew,
>
> Sure you can.
>
> Create a checkbox in the form:
>
> <input type="checkbox" name="addToList" value="yes">
>
> Then on the receiving page...
>
> if(isset($addToList) && $addToList == "yes"){
>    //assuming there's a form field called email
>    $throwItIn = mysql_query("insert into mylistofemails
> values('".$_POST['email']."');
> }
>
>
> --- Andrew Maynes <andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk> wrote:
> > Hi all
> >
> > glad we are back online, is it just me or is everyoner getting 2-3 mails of
> the
> > same post?
> >
> > anyway here is the question, I have a form that I would like to get the email
> > inserted into a MySQL db is this possible?  I mean possible to use the
> existing
> > form elements and adding a tick box sent me a weekly newsletter?
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Andrew
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02
> >
> > --
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
> http://www.hotjobs.com
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From chris at webbtech.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 09:22:06 2002
From: chris at webbtech.co.uk (Chris Marsh)
Date: Tue Aug 13 09:22:06 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKEDKDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000201c242d0$728206b0$effea8c0@development.idlenet.com>

Andrew

> this produces this
>
> Parse error: parse error, unexpected T_ELSE in

[..]

Not that I'm a PHP programmer, but I suspect a mere typo (the second
curlybrace is the wrong way round) is the culprit.

Regards

Chris Marsh




From andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 09:31:13 2002
From: andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Aug 13 09:31:13 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <3D590AFC.3000302@star-chaser.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEDNDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>

nope, now getting...

Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result resource
in /usr/home/public_html/demo/order2.php on line 12
couldn't execute query


with

include("settings.inc");

mysql_connect("$dbhost","$dbuser","$dbpass");

$$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE
          email='$email'";
         $result=mysql_query($sql);
         $num=mysql_numrows($result);
         if ($num > 0)
             echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        else {

$sql = "INSERT INTO mailinglux(email) VALUES
('$email')";


$result = mysql_query($sql) or die ("couldn't execute query");


if(!EmailOK($email)) {

echo "The email address you submitted is not valid.";

exit;
}

mysql_db_query($dbname, "insert into mailinglux values('','$email')");
}

----------


Andrew

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From nansmith at heritageconcord.org  Tue Aug 13 09:34:01 2002
From: nansmith at heritageconcord.org (Nan Smith)
Date: Tue Aug 13 09:34:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKEDKDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BDEGINKLKKDNIMKNAMKNEEGECAAA.nansmith@heritageconcord.org>

oh, sorry. In my haste, I put in a backwards bracket. The bracket in
front of the else should face the other way.
Nan

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 9:38 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


this produces this

Parse error: parse error, unexpected T_ELSE in

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Nan Smith
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 02:13
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


Why don't you try:

$sql = "SELECT email FROM TableName WHERE
          email='$email'";
         $result=mysql_query($sql);
         if ($result){

             echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
{
        else {

$sql = "INSERT INTO TableName(name,email,phone,company,message) VALUES
('$name','$email','$phone','$company','$message')";
}
If there is a match, then there is a result, and the number of rows does
not matter.

Nan

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 8:47 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


this is really useful too, however it is kicking out this

Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result
resource

any ideas?

Thank you

Andrew



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Gary Bland
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 12:23
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


Andrew Maynes wrote:
> Hi all
>
> glad we are back online, is it just me or is everyoner getting 2-3
mails of
the
> same post?
>
> anyway here is the question, I have a form that I would like to get the
email
> inserted into a MySQL db is this possible?  I mean possible to use the
existing
> form elements and adding a tick box sent me a weekly newsletter?
>
> Thank you
>
> Andrew
> ---

Yes but you really need to check to see if the email address is already
there so you don't end up with someone putting the same email address in
several times. Here is one Of mine just adjust the INSERT to fit your
need.

$sql = "SELECT email FROM TableName WHERE
          email='$email'";
         $result=mysql_query($sql);
         $num=mysql_numrows($result);
         if ($num > 0)
             echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        else {

$sql = "INSERT INTO TableName(name,email,phone,company,message) VALUES
('$name','$email','$phone','$company','$message')";



--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today

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From kstevens89 at comcast.net  Tue Aug 13 09:36:12 2002
From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens)
Date: Tue Aug 13 09:36:12 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mozilla is giving me strange errors
In-Reply-To: <3D58EDF5.9000109@members.evolt.org>
References: <3D58EDF5.9000109@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <a05111b01b97ebf65cbf2@[68.35.112.212]>

What OS are you on?

At 9:31 PM +1000 8/13/02, Lachlan Cannon wrote:
>Does anyone know why Mozilla isn't displaying my page
>http://luminosity.f2o.org/thoughts/admin/add/ ?
>
>PS Yes I'm aware that not delivering the file as application/xhtml+xml
>will 'solve' the problem.. I want to know what's causing it, and be able
>to fix that.
>
>Thanks,
>--
>Lach
>__________________________________________
>Web: http://illuminosity.net/
>E-mail: lach at illuminosity.net
>MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
>__________________________________________
>
>
>--
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens

"Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people....
Let us dare to read, think, speak and write."
-John Adams


From kstevens89 at comcast.net  Tue Aug 13 09:40:10 2002
From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens)
Date: Tue Aug 13 09:40:10 2002
Subject: [thelist] US based ASP hosting
In-Reply-To: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEOEEEEOAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>
References: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEOEEEEOAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a05111b02b97ec0b21a03@[68.35.112.212]>

Do you need SSL or ASP?  They are not related.

At 2:20 PM +0100 8/13/02, Norman Beresford wrote:
>Hi all
>
>Could someone recommend some ASP hosting where the servers are in the US.
>It's for a few simple sites, just needs to support SSL for one of the sites.
>Ideally cheap but with good support.
>
>Norman
>
>--
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens

"Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people....
Let us dare to read, think, speak and write."
-John Adams


From richardgray at onetel.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 09:48:00 2002
From: richardgray at onetel.co.uk (Rich Gray)
Date: Tue Aug 13 09:48:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEDMDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <EDEGIPFFGBJHCIJCMPKOKEMICFAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>

You forgot the echo mysql_error() ... and you don't seem to have selected
the database ...

Try something like this...

$link = mysql_connect("$dbhost","$dbuser","$dbpass") or die("Can't
connect");

if (mysql_select_db("mydatabase",$link)) {

	$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE  email='$email'";
	$result=mysql_query($sql);
         	if (mysql_num_rows($result) > 0)
             		echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        	else {
		if(!EmailOK($email)) {
			echo "The email address you submitted is not valid.";
			exit;
		}
		mysql_query("insert into mailinglux values('$email')");
	}
}
else {
	echo "Can't select the database";
	exit;
}

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: 13 August 2002 06:46
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


this 'Parse error: parse error, unexpected T_VARIABLE ' is displayed when I
put
this
mysql_error() in and when its out this

Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result
resource

is displayed

this is the code


include("settings.inc");

mysql_connect("$dbhost","$dbuser","$dbpass");

$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE
          email='$email'";
         $result=mysql_query($sql);
         $num=mysql_numrows($result);
         if ($num > 0)
             echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        else {

mysql_error()

$sql = "INSERT INTO mailinglux(email) VALUES
('$name')";


if(!EmailOK($email)) {

echo "The email address you submitted is not valid.";

exit;
}

mysql_db_query($dbname, "insert into mailinglux values('','$email')");
}


Thank you

Andrew





---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02

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From richardgray at onetel.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 09:59:00 2002
From: richardgray at onetel.co.uk (Rich Gray)
Date: Tue Aug 13 09:59:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEDMDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <EDEGIPFFGBJHCIJCMPKOKEMICFAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>

You forgot the echo mysql_error() ... and you don't seem to have selected
the database ...

Try something like this...

$link = mysql_connect("$dbhost","$dbuser","$dbpass") or die("Can't
connect");

if (mysql_select_db("mydatabase",$link)) {

	$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE  email='$email'";
	$result=mysql_query($sql);
         	if (mysql_num_rows($result) > 0)
             		echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        	else {
		if(!EmailOK($email)) {
			echo "The email address you submitted is not valid.";
			exit;
		}
		mysql_query("insert into mailinglux values('$email')");
	}
}
else {
	echo "Can't select the database";
	exit;
}

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: 13 August 2002 06:46
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


this 'Parse error: parse error, unexpected T_VARIABLE ' is displayed when I
put
this
mysql_error() in and when its out this

Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result
resource

is displayed

this is the code


include("settings.inc");

mysql_connect("$dbhost","$dbuser","$dbpass");

$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE
          email='$email'";
         $result=mysql_query($sql);
         $num=mysql_numrows($result);
         if ($num > 0)
             echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        else {

mysql_error()

$sql = "INSERT INTO mailinglux(email) VALUES
('$name')";


if(!EmailOK($email)) {

echo "The email address you submitted is not valid.";

exit;
}

mysql_db_query($dbname, "insert into mailinglux values('','$email')");
}


Thank you

Andrew





---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02

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From richardgray at onetel.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 10:04:00 2002
From: richardgray at onetel.co.uk (Rich Gray)
Date: Tue Aug 13 10:04:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEDMDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <EDEGIPFFGBJHCIJCMPKOKEMICFAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>

You forgot the echo mysql_error() ... and you don't seem to have selected
the database ...

Try something like this...

$link = mysql_connect("$dbhost","$dbuser","$dbpass") or die("Can't
connect");

if (mysql_select_db("mydatabase",$link)) {

	$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE  email='$email'";
	$result=mysql_query($sql);
         	if (mysql_num_rows($result) > 0)
             		echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        	else {
		if(!EmailOK($email)) {
			echo "The email address you submitted is not valid.";
			exit;
		}
		mysql_query("insert into mailinglux values('$email')");
	}
}
else {
	echo "Can't select the database";
	exit;
}

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: 13 August 2002 06:46
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


this 'Parse error: parse error, unexpected T_VARIABLE ' is displayed when I
put
this
mysql_error() in and when its out this

Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result
resource

is displayed

this is the code


include("settings.inc");

mysql_connect("$dbhost","$dbuser","$dbpass");

$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE
          email='$email'";
         $result=mysql_query($sql);
         $num=mysql_numrows($result);
         if ($num > 0)
             echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        else {

mysql_error()

$sql = "INSERT INTO mailinglux(email) VALUES
('$name')";


if(!EmailOK($email)) {

echo "The email address you submitted is not valid.";

exit;
}

mysql_db_query($dbname, "insert into mailinglux values('','$email')");
}


Thank you

Andrew





---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 10:06:29 2002
From: andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Aug 13 10:06:29 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <20020813135516.17162.qmail@web13501.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEEADHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>

this is what I had originally thought, I must be missing something.  The rest of
the code checks a couple of form fields and then emails the results to both the
site admin and the form filler.  I did have a problem with a conflict there but
that is sorted now as it was a mail problem.

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of jon steele
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 02:55
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


In this situation you could add the email to the database using another caller
of some kind, like
a pop-up window.

<form name="myForm" onsubmit="if(documnet.myForm.addToEmailList.checked)
window.open('addToEmailList.php?email='+document.myform.email.value">

I don't understand how adding the code to insert the email into database on the
next page in the
order will screw up the order code...you are simply adding an extra query to the
rest of the php
script.

Anyway, hth.

--- Andrew Maynes <andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk> wrote:
> this is really useful and helped alot, however I had better run this by you.
>
> The form I am using already has an email field which I dont want to change,
> except to add a little tick box next to it.  This is the existing form element
> in form 1.
>
> <TR><TD>E-mail Address</TD><TD><input name="Email" size="30"></TD></TR>
>
>
> I have added some code into the form 2 but everything else doesn't work!  the
> form is being used as an order form so when the code is added the order info
> isn't being sent, which indicated the adding to a mailing list code is
disabling
> the other code?  Which doesn't seem logical!
>
> Andrew
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of jon steele
> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 10:32
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
>
>
> Hey Andrew,
>
> Sure you can.
>
> Create a checkbox in the form:
>
> <input type="checkbox" name="addToList" value="yes">
>
> Then on the receiving page...
>
> if(isset($addToList) && $addToList == "yes"){
>    //assuming there's a form field called email
>    $throwItIn = mysql_query("insert into mylistofemails
> values('".$_POST['email']."');
> }
>
>
> --- Andrew Maynes <andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk> wrote:
> > Hi all
> >
> > glad we are back online, is it just me or is everyoner getting 2-3 mails of
> the
> > same post?
> >
> > anyway here is the question, I have a form that I would like to get the
email
> > inserted into a MySQL db is this possible?  I mean possible to use the
> existing
> > form elements and adding a tick box sent me a weekly newsletter?
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Andrew
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02
> >
> > --
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
> http://www.hotjobs.com
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02
>
> --
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> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com
--
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---
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---
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From pinyo at greatnexus.com  Tue Aug 13 10:09:39 2002
From: pinyo at greatnexus.com (Pinyo Bhulipongsanon)
Date: Tue Aug 13 10:09:39 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mozilla is giving me strange errors
Message-ID: <20020813150729.68219.qmail@wm1.netfirms.com>

On Tue, 13 Aug 2002 07:51:50 -0600, Kid Stevens
<kstevens89 at comcast.net> wrote :

> What OS are you on?
>
> At 9:31 PM +1000 8/13/02, Lachlan Cannon wrote:
> >Does anyone know why Mozilla isn't displaying my page
> >http://luminosity.f2o.org/thoughts/admin/add/ ?
> >
> >PS Yes I'm aware that not delivering the file as
application/xhtml+xml
> >will 'solve' the problem.. I want to know what's causing it, and
be able
> >to fix that.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >--
> >Lach
> >__________________________________________
> >Web: http://illuminosity.net/
> >E-mail: lach at illuminosity.net
> >MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
> >__________________________________________
> >
> >
> >--
> >For unsubscribe and other options, including
> >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Kid Stevens
>
> "Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the
people....
> Let us dare to read, think, speak and write."
> -John Adams
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>

Mozilla does not deal with linked stylesheet well when doing DIV
positioning. You must include the positioning CSS tags inline on the
DIV tag.

--
pinyo at greatnexus.com

Looking for tutorials and articles on web site development, visit us
at http://greatnexus.com  While you are there, drop by and join our
web community at http://greatnexus.com/edgeboard/



From andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 10:12:04 2002
From: andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Aug 13 10:12:04 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <20020813135516.17162.qmail@web13501.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEEADHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>

this is what I had originally thought, I must be missing something.  The rest of
the code checks a couple of form fields and then emails the results to both the
site admin and the form filler.  I did have a problem with a conflict there but
that is sorted now as it was a mail problem.

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of jon steele
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 02:55
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


In this situation you could add the email to the database using another caller
of some kind, like
a pop-up window.

<form name="myForm" onsubmit="if(documnet.myForm.addToEmailList.checked)
window.open('addToEmailList.php?email='+document.myform.email.value">

I don't understand how adding the code to insert the email into database on the
next page in the
order will screw up the order code...you are simply adding an extra query to the
rest of the php
script.

Anyway, hth.

--- Andrew Maynes <andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk> wrote:
> this is really useful and helped alot, however I had better run this by you.
>
> The form I am using already has an email field which I dont want to change,
> except to add a little tick box next to it.  This is the existing form element
> in form 1.
>
> <TR><TD>E-mail Address</TD><TD><input name="Email" size="30"></TD></TR>
>
>
> I have added some code into the form 2 but everything else doesn't work!  the
> form is being used as an order form so when the code is added the order info
> isn't being sent, which indicated the adding to a mailing list code is
disabling
> the other code?  Which doesn't seem logical!
>
> Andrew
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of jon steele
> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 10:32
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
>
>
> Hey Andrew,
>
> Sure you can.
>
> Create a checkbox in the form:
>
> <input type="checkbox" name="addToList" value="yes">
>
> Then on the receiving page...
>
> if(isset($addToList) && $addToList == "yes"){
>    //assuming there's a form field called email
>    $throwItIn = mysql_query("insert into mylistofemails
> values('".$_POST['email']."');
> }
>
>
> --- Andrew Maynes <andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk> wrote:
> > Hi all
> >
> > glad we are back online, is it just me or is everyoner getting 2-3 mails of
> the
> > same post?
> >
> > anyway here is the question, I have a form that I would like to get the
email
> > inserted into a MySQL db is this possible?  I mean possible to use the
> existing
> > form elements and adding a tick box sent me a weekly newsletter?
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Andrew
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02
> >
> > --
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including
> > the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> > http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
> http://www.hotjobs.com
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com
--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02



From ben at inchima.com  Tue Aug 13 10:30:50 2002
From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips)
Date: Tue Aug 13 10:30:50 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEDMDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <001001c242d6$6cc59d80$0300a8c0@BS>

there are a few syntax errors in the code. i've altered them below:

> this is the code:
>
> include("settings.inc");
>
> mysql_connect("$dbhost","$dbuser","$dbpass");
>
> $sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE
>           email='$email'";
>          $result=mysql_query($sql);
>          $num=mysql_numrows($result);

mysql_numrows() should be mysql_num_rows().

>          if ($num > 0)

when using if statements, surround all blocks in curly brackets. so:

if ($num > 0) {

  // do stuff when $num > 0
  echo "...";

} else {

  // do stuff when $num isn't > 0
  mysql_error()
  ...

}

it's a lot easier to read, for you and for others, and will also make
spotting errors easier.

benji.
inchima.com




From evolt at accessibleinter.net  Tue Aug 13 10:33:41 2002
From: evolt at accessibleinter.net (Bill Mason)
Date: Tue Aug 13 10:33:41 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mozilla is giving me strange errors
In-Reply-To: <200208131307.g7DD7sN09525@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020813071737.009f4190@accessibleinter.net>

At 06:07 AM 08/13/2002, Lachlan Cannon wrote:
>Does anyone know why Mozilla isn't displaying my page
>http://luminosity.f2o.org/thoughts/admin/add/ ?
>
>PS Yes I'm aware that not delivering the file as application/xhtml+xml
>will 'solve' the problem.. I want to know what's causing it, and be able
>to fix that.

It's working fine in my 1.1b nightly build, 2002080614.  What version are
you having a problem in?

Bill Mason
Accessible Internet
evolt at accessibleinter.net
http://www.accessibleinter.net/




From bill at webmarketingworx.com  Tue Aug 13 10:34:32 2002
From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel)
Date: Tue Aug 13 10:34:32 2002
Subject: [thelist] MySQL/PHP - copy record?
Message-ID: <NEBBKJHBCLFCFFMCEMFIAENLECAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>

Howdy all -

I'll bet someone on this list has had to do this before - more than once
even. (I can think of one person who's probably done it many times -
hmmmm...)

Anyway, I have a record in a MySQL DB and I want to put a button on my form
that says 'copy this record'.

I can think of several ways this can be done using PHP, but what I'd really
like to do it make it happen almost (if not) 100% by query, to avoid messy
coding. Is there a way to do this all via SQL? All info from one record to
the other would be duped except for date (not datestamp) and id.

BH



From bill at webmarketingworx.com  Tue Aug 13 10:37:52 2002
From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel)
Date: Tue Aug 13 10:37:52 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEDNDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NEBBKJHBCLFCFFMCEMFIEENLECAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>

> Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL
> result resource
> in /usr/home/public_html/demo/order2.php on line 12
> couldn't execute query
>
> $$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE

Extra '$' on $sql?

"$$sql" --  (see above)

BH


From evoltlist at rogers.com  Tue Aug 13 10:45:32 2002
From: evoltlist at rogers.com (Ingrid Z)
Date: Tue Aug 13 10:45:32 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL 2000 update statement - thanks
References: <01c24274$257d3f80$b2e6059a@rudy>
Message-ID: <00ee01c242d7$184bd520$33c52a18@userf1xcwzruul>

Thanks Rudy and Paul,

Rudy, your suggestion has helped. All I have to do now is re-sort the order
before I dump into the text file, so the order total column appears with the
orders for that user.
The shopping cart will be re-structured anyway, this is an interim solution.


Thanks very much,
Ingrid

> if not, try
>
>   insert into summary (custname, ordertotal)
>     select custname, sum(orderamt)
>   from orders
>      group by custname
>
> rudy
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 10:57:44 2002
From: andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Aug 13 10:57:44 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <EDEGIPFFGBJHCIJCMPKOKEMICFAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEEMDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>

Excellent


This works but there are still a few problems and this isnt using a tick box
which was the original plan!

Thak you all for the help I will try to get the tick box working but I think it
cant work because the form element is the email?

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Rich Gray
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 11:32
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


You forgot the echo mysql_error() ... and you don't seem to have selected
the database ...

Try something like this...

$link = mysql_connect("$dbhost","$dbuser","$dbpass") or die("Can't
connect");

if (mysql_select_db("mydatabase",$link)) {

	$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE  email='$email'";
	$result=mysql_query($sql);
         	if (mysql_num_rows($result) > 0)
             		echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        	else {
		if(!EmailOK($email)) {
			echo "The email address you submitted is not valid.";
			exit;
		}
		mysql_query("insert into mailinglux values('$email')");
	}
}
else {
	echo "Can't select the database";
	exit;
}

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: 13 August 2002 06:46
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


this 'Parse error: parse error, unexpected T_VARIABLE ' is displayed when I
put
this
mysql_error() in and when its out this

Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result
resource

is displayed

this is the code


include("settings.inc");

mysql_connect("$dbhost","$dbuser","$dbpass");

$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE
          email='$email'";
         $result=mysql_query($sql);
         $num=mysql_numrows($result);
         if ($num > 0)
             echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        else {

mysql_error()

$sql = "INSERT INTO mailinglux(email) VALUES
('$name')";


if(!EmailOK($email)) {

echo "The email address you submitted is not valid.";

exit;
}

mysql_db_query($dbname, "insert into mailinglux values('','$email')");
}


Thank you

Andrew





---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 13 11:06:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] DOM: accessing properties of "children" array - another solution
In-Reply-To: <3D58E9E3.9070404@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <20020813160033.68575.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks Duncan - I see the key here is being able to grab all the TD
elements using getElementsByTagName coming off the TR - great! I
didn't know you could do that. I may adjust my other script now, I
think this is better!

Tom

--- Duncan O'Neill <dbaxo at ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> Tom,
>
> this might give you some ideas.
> Works in PC/ IE5.5, Moz 1.0, Opera 6.0
>
> <!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
> <html>
> <head>
> <title>Changing bgColor</title>
> <script language="Javascript" type="text/javascript">
> <!--
>
> function changeBgColor(hue){
>    var TRobj = document.getElementById("therow");
>    var TDobj = TRobj.getElementsByTagName("td");
>    for (var i=0;i<TDobj.length;i++){
>          TDobj.item(i).style.backgroundColor = '#' + hue;
>      }
> }
>
> //-->
> </script>
> </head>
> <body>
>
> <table width="300" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
> <tr id="therow" onmouseover="changeBgColor('ff0000');"
> onmouseout="changeBgColor('0000ff');"><td>blah</td>
>                  <td>blah</td>
> 	            <td>blah</td>
> 	            <td>blah</td></tr></table>
>
> </body>
> </html>
>
> hth,


=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 13 11:17:04 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:17:04 2002
Subject: [thelist] US based ASP hosting
In-Reply-To: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEOEEEEOAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20020813160222.7965.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com>

I've had great success with ORCSWEB:

www.orcsweb.com

Tom
--- Norman Beresford <n.beresford at anansi.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Could someone recommend some ASP hosting where the servers are in
> the US.
> It's for a few simple sites, just needs to support SSL for one of
> the sites.
> Ideally cheap but with good support.
>
> Norman
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From framar at interlog.com  Tue Aug 13 11:24:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] back web?
In-Reply-To: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJGEFPEEAA.carole@pixeltable.com>
References: <3D563F27.16134.B63ECE0C@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020813121729.00ae7688@mail.interlog.com>

At 07:02 AM 8/13/2002 -0400, you wrote:
 > can somebody explain what a registry key referring to
 > *Backweb* means?

Spy-ware. If you are running some sort of 'free' peer to peer client (such
as Kazaa, Audio Galaxy, etc...) This is usually installed without the
user's knowledge or consent. May I suggest an excellent piece of software
to remove this, and most other spy-ware?

http://www.lavasoftusa.com/

Further information on the matter...
http://www.simplythebest.net/info/spyware.html
http://www.kimsoft.com/kim-spy.htm
http://boards.cexx.org/spytech/
http://www.spychecker.com/




Frank Marion
framar at interlog.com





From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov  Tue Aug 13 11:37:25 2002
From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:37:25 2002
Subject: [thelist] How does Google access protected sites
Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C446@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
I noticed that Google gets access to sites that usually need a username and
password to enter.  Does anyone know how Google manages to do this?

Josh


From Ashok at MagicalKenya.com  Tue Aug 13 11:41:27 2002
From: Ashok at MagicalKenya.com (Ashok at MagicalKenya.com)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:41:27 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL 2000 update statement
Message-ID: <OFE30F7059.EF9191E1-ON43256C14.0050066D@symphony.co.ke>

<bounced ! - repost>

>Currently, am using this...
>Update ProdSummary Set TheTotalOrder = @total where LastName = @last
>
>I want to update only ONE row that has that LastName..

>From what i can guess you have multiple rows in the table that have
the same LastName key, but you would like to update only a single row....

I hope you have an additional unique identifier on each row containing
sale information...

If you dont maybe this could help you :

if your update is done in a stored procedure , you can use the SQL Server
'set rowcount' property to update a single row...

for example :
if your table is like this :

last-name value
--------- ------
smith          50
smith          20
johnson   30
jameson   20

normally an update like :

update table set value=100 where last-name='smith'

will update both the 'smith' rows to the value 100...

BUT if you do this within a stored procedure, with a set rowcount:

create procedure update_proc
as
begin
--....code....
Set rowcount 1 -- set sql rowcount to 1
update table set value=100 where last-name='smith'
Set rowcount 0 -- reset rowcount to all
--....more code....
end

the command 'set rowcount 0' instructs sql server to return/update
just a single row of any subsequent query....
this procedure above will update only a single row containing the last-name
'smith' ,

the difficult question for you now is , how do you know which 'smith' the
query has updated...?!

I used Set Rowcount in this way a long time back with SQL Server 4.2 to
simulate a sequential
cursor....(they didnt have t-sql cursors in that version...)








------
Ashok Hariharan
http://www.hazard0us.org
------











From evoltlist at rogers.com  Tue Aug 13 11:42:29 2002
From: evoltlist at rogers.com (Ingrid Z)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:42:29 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL 2000 update statement - thanks
References: <01c24274$257d3f80$b2e6059a@rudy>
Message-ID: <00ee01c242d7$184bd520$33c52a18@userf1xcwzruul>

Thanks Rudy and Paul,

Rudy, your suggestion has helped. All I have to do now is re-sort the order
before I dump into the text file, so the order total column appears with the
orders for that user.
The shopping cart will be re-structured anyway, this is an interim solution.


Thanks very much,
Ingrid

> if not, try
>
>   insert into summary (custname, ordertotal)
>     select custname, sum(orderamt)
>   from orders
>      group by custname
>
> rudy
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From Gary at star-chaser.com  Tue Aug 13 11:42:38 2002
From: Gary at star-chaser.com (Gary Bland)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:42:38 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEDNDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3D591E11.2020800@star-chaser.com>

Andrew Maynes wrote:
> nope, now getting...
>
> Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result resource
> in /usr/home/public_html/demo/order2.php on line 12
> couldn't execute query
>
>
> with
>
> include("settings.inc");
>
> mysql_connect("$dbhost","$dbuser","$dbpass");
>
> $$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE
>           email='$email'";
>          $result=mysql_query($sql);
>          $num=mysql_numrows($result);
>          if ($num > 0)
>              echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
>         else {
>
> $sql = "INSERT INTO mailinglux(email) VALUES
> ('$email')";
>
>
> $result = mysql_query($sql) or die ("couldn't execute query");
>
>
> if(!EmailOK($email)) {
>
> echo "The email address you submitted is not valid.";
>
> exit;
> }
>
> mysql_db_query($dbname, "insert into mailinglux values('','$email')");
> }
>
> ----------
>
You have a typo
$$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE


--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today



From garrett at polytechnic.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 11:43:12 2002
From: garrett at polytechnic.co.uk (Garrett Coakley)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:43:12 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mozilla is giving me strange errors
In-Reply-To: <20020813150729.68219.qmail@wm1.netfirms.com>
References: <20020813150729.68219.qmail@wm1.netfirms.com>
Message-ID: <20020813164827.0eee9283.garrett@polytechnic.co.uk>

On 13 Aug 2002 15:07:29 -0000 "Pinyo Bhulipongsanon"
<pinyo at greatnexus.com> wrote:

(please remember to trim your replies to thelist)

> Mozilla does not deal with linked stylesheet well when doing DIV
> positioning. You must include the positioning CSS tags inline on the
> DIV tag.

Do you have a citation or a link to a bugzilla entry for this? Can't say
I've ever come across any problems using positioning with a linked
stylesheet.

G.



--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
WORK: http://www.gencon.co.uk
PLAY: http://polytechnic.co.uk


From Ashok at MagicalKenya.com  Tue Aug 13 11:43:35 2002
From: Ashok at MagicalKenya.com (Ashok at MagicalKenya.com)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:43:35 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL 2000 update statement
Message-ID: <OFE30F7059.EF9191E1-ON43256C14.0050066D@symphony.co.ke>

>Currently, am using this...
>Update ProdSummary Set TheTotalOrder = @total where LastName = @last
>
>I want to update only ONE row that has that LastName..

>From what i can guess you have multiple rows in the table that have
the same LastName key, but you would like to update only a single row....

I hope you have an additional unique identifier on each row containing
sale information...

If you dont maybe this could help you :

if your update is done in a stored procedure , you can use the SQL Server
'set rowcount' property to update a single row...

for example :
if your table is like this :

last-name value
--------- ------
smith          50
smith          20
johnson   30
jameson   20

normally an update like :

update table set value=100 where last-name='smith'

will update both the 'smith' rows to the value 100...

BUT if you do this within a stored procedure, with a set rowcount:

create procedure update_proc
as
begin
--....code....
Set rowcount 1 -- set sql rowcount to 1
update table set value=100 where last-name='smith'
Set rowcount 0 -- reset rowcount to all
--....more code....
end

the command 'set rowcount 0' instructs sql server to return/update
just a single row of any subsequent query....
this procedure above will update only a single row containing the last-name
'smith' ,

the difficult question for you now is , how do you know which 'smith' the
query has updated...?!

I used Set Rowcount in this way a long time back with SQL Server 4.2 to
simulate a sequential
cursor....(they didnt have t-sql cursors in that version...)


















From pinyo at greatnexus.com  Tue Aug 13 11:44:01 2002
From: pinyo at greatnexus.com (Pinyo Bhulipongsanon)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:44:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] US based ASP hosting
Message-ID: <20020813151048.47925.qmail@wm3.netfirms.com>

On Tue, 13 Aug 2002 07:58:45 -0600, Kid Stevens
<kstevens89 at comcast.net> wrote :

> Do you need SSL or ASP?  They are not related.
>
> At 2:20 PM +0100 8/13/02, Norman Beresford wrote:
> >Hi all
> >
> >Could someone recommend some ASP hosting where the servers are in
the US.
> >It's for a few simple sites, just needs to support SSL for one of
the sites.
> >Ideally cheap but with good support.
> >
> >Norman
> >
> >--
> >For unsubscribe and other options, including
> >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Kid Stevens
>
> "Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the
people....
> Let us dare to read, think, speak and write."
> -John Adams
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
>

This is a current topic on my forum
http://greatnexus.com/edgeboard/index.php?a=topic&forum=3&topic=1

I think the best recommendation so far is to use the search engine at
http://www.hostsearch.com/

--
pinyo at greatnexus.com

Looking for tutorials and articles on web site development, visit us
at http://greatnexus.com  While you are there, drop by and join our
web community at http://greatnexus.com/edgeboard/



From ben at inchima.com  Tue Aug 13 11:44:10 2002
From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:44:10 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEDNDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <001201c242d9$141b5ff0$0300a8c0@BS>

> $$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE
>           email='$email'";
>          $result=mysql_query($sql);
>          $num=mysql_numrows($result);

try $sql = "SELECT ...
instead of $$sql = "SELECT ...

and it's mysql_num_rows not mysql_numrows.

benji.




From andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 11:44:13 2002
From: andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:44:13 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <EDEGIPFFGBJHCIJCMPKOKEMICFAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEEKDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>

Thgis has done the job

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Rich Gray
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 11:32
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


You forgot the echo mysql_error() ... and you don't seem to have selected
the database ...

Try something like this...

$link = mysql_connect("$dbhost","$dbuser","$dbpass") or die("Can't
connect");

if (mysql_select_db("mydatabase",$link)) {

	$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE  email='$email'";
	$result=mysql_query($sql);
         	if (mysql_num_rows($result) > 0)
             		echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        	else {
		if(!EmailOK($email)) {
			echo "The email address you submitted is not valid.";
			exit;
		}
		mysql_query("insert into mailinglux values('$email')");
	}
}
else {
	echo "Can't select the database";
	exit;
}

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: 13 August 2002 06:46
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


this 'Parse error: parse error, unexpected T_VARIABLE ' is displayed when I
put
this
mysql_error() in and when its out this

Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result
resource

is displayed

this is the code


include("settings.inc");

mysql_connect("$dbhost","$dbuser","$dbpass");

$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE
          email='$email'";
         $result=mysql_query($sql);
         $num=mysql_numrows($result);
         if ($num > 0)
             echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        else {

mysql_error()

$sql = "INSERT INTO mailinglux(email) VALUES
('$name')";


if(!EmailOK($email)) {

echo "The email address you submitted is not valid.";

exit;
}

mysql_db_query($dbname, "insert into mailinglux values('','$email')");
}


Thank you

Andrew





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From andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 11:44:26 2002
From: andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:44:26 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <001001c242d6$6cc59d80$0300a8c0@BS>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEELDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>

excellent thank you

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Ben Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 03:34
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


there are a few syntax errors in the code. i've altered them below:

> this is the code:
>
> include("settings.inc");
>
> mysql_connect("$dbhost","$dbuser","$dbpass");
>
> $sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE
>           email='$email'";
>          $result=mysql_query($sql);
>          $num=mysql_numrows($result);

mysql_numrows() should be mysql_num_rows().

>          if ($num > 0)

when using if statements, surround all blocks in curly brackets. so:

if ($num > 0) {

  // do stuff when $num > 0
  echo "...";

} else {

  // do stuff when $num isn't > 0
  mysql_error()
  ...

}

it's a lot easier to read, for you and for others, and will also make
spotting errors easier.

benji.
inchima.com


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From roblgs at cscoms.com  Tue Aug 13 11:44:30 2002
From: roblgs at cscoms.com (Rob Schumann)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:44:30 2002
Subject: [thelist] Accessibility and (browser-based) wysiwyg editors
Message-ID: <20020813223450-r01010800-a12587a1-0910-0108@210.203.180.27>

Hi,

I'm constructing a small CMS and have been toying with how to handle in text style changes by the client editing their site content through whatever the given interface turns out to be.

The choice seems simple:

Develop my own simplified tagging system and allow editing through the standard <input> and <textarea> tags

Use one of the wysiwyg offerings that are beginning to appear

Dump everything and move over to a blog

I don't have very much experience of the wysiwyg browser based editors, largely because I run/develop on a Mac, thus precluding the use of the vast majority of those available.... so the opinion formed here is necessarily based upon a very limited sample, however...

The principal of these editors appears GREAT from the client point of view, since they look and work like the word processors everyone is used to, so would likely be greeted with great enthusiasm in that quarter.

But what about accessibility and the need for the html generated to carry structural meaning as opposed to merely affecting affect appearance (which should anyway be the task of css).... from this perspective these same wysiwyg editors would appear to be a giant step backwards... certainly there should be some caveats to their use.

Gone is the use of <H#> tags, gone are <em>, <strong> and a host of others... What we are left with are <p> tags and changes to font face, colour, weight, size and style, and perhaps the ability to add lists and tables.

So, as the groundswell towards accessibility gathers momentum and becomes a legal necessity in some countries, along comes a tool with the potential to significantly hobble that evolution... I know that I can impose some structure on the page by breaking the content down into sections within the databased and styling those separately using structural tags... but these editors allow the client to write lengthy texts that, while potentially visually ok, contain not a single structural tag beyond <p>.

At the moment and for my own purposes I am tending towards developing my own simplified tagging system (unless someone can point me to one that can be easily plugged into a different working environment). Those of you with greater experience on the available wysiwyg editors might like to take issue with my above concerns... I would love that I am wrong...

Regards


Rob


From kstevens89 at comcast.net  Tue Aug 13 11:44:53 2002
From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:44:53 2002
Subject: [thelist] back web?
In-Reply-To: <a05111b08b97ec0c80e59@[192.168.0.10]>
References: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJGEFPEEAA.carole@pixeltable.com>
 <a05111b08b97ec0c80e59@[192.168.0.10]>
Message-ID: <a05111b04b97ec763ad36@[68.35.112.212]>

You can pick on comcast all you want! High speed connection ton of problems

At 3:59 PM +0200 8/13/02, Androse wrote:
>Vu "[thelist] back web?", du 13/08/02 ? 7:02 -0400 :
>>can somebody explain what a registry key referring to *Backweb* means? Which
>>programs use this - the only reference I see in the multiple keys is to
>>Logitech (mouse and keyboard).
>
>Any connection with the 'BackWeb' application that pionneered Push
>technology (remember that ? the huge Wired mag cover and all ? ah!)
>along with comcast (i think)... ?
>--
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens

"Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people....
Let us dare to read, think, speak and write."
-John Adams


From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 11:45:06 2002
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:45:06 2002
Subject: [thelist] US based ASP hosting
In-Reply-To: <a05111b02b97ec0b21a03@[68.35.112.212]>
Message-ID: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEIEEMEOAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>

Hi Kid

Need both.  One of the sites has an ASP driven shopping system that uses SSL
at the checkout

Norman


> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Kid Stevens
> Sent: 13 August 2002 14:59
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] US based ASP hosting
>
>
> Do you need SSL or ASP?  They are not related.
>
> At 2:20 PM +0100 8/13/02, Norman Beresford wrote:
> >Hi all
> >
> >Could someone recommend some ASP hosting where the servers are in the US.
> >It's for a few simple sites, just needs to support SSL for one
> of the sites.
> >Ideally cheap but with good support.
> >
> >Norman
> >
> >--
> >For unsubscribe and other options, including
> >the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> >http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Kid Stevens
>
> "Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among
> the people....
> Let us dare to read, think, speak and write."
> -John Adams
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From wes at pmason.karoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 11:54:00 2002
From: wes at pmason.karoo.co.uk (**1st Vamp**)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:54:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] back web?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020813121729.00ae7688@mail.interlog.com>
References: <3D563F27.16134.B63ECE0C@localhost>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020813121729.00ae7688@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <8199762771.20020813175309@pmason.karoo.co.uk>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: MD5

FYI: If you are running KaZaA and you remove the adware/spyware components KaZaA may complain about it and not
start as it checks for the components it installs before booting. Don't know if there are any hacks around
this, but there might be.

- - Vamp

Tuesday, August 13, 2002, 5:22:43 PM, Frank wrote:

> At 07:02 AM 8/13/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>  > can somebody explain what a registry key referring to
>  > *Backweb* means?

> Spy-ware. If you are running some sort of 'free' peer to peer client (such
> as Kazaa, Audio Galaxy, etc...) This is usually installed without the
> user's knowledge or consent. May I suggest an excellent piece of software
> to remove this, and most other spy-ware?

> http://www.lavasoftusa.com/
<snip>

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Version: 2.6

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DX3/kvf//7Xre+E8f1Jx16WTuQV9LH2InyfPaAlYXwvdJvmdwFrm9wHykg4PxROB
fN3b6PVnwy1zkklXVrqrFrdDniZYg4JYoPXMCJRG8PDLs8PNznWctH61SCQPXvQU
oNoqD/2n7SBVcVkBuRVAC6R8UaWWKp5+dzbzYTpm6o+XRBY5KiqrtPeXav//b5w=
=Br7m
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From wirehead at poorrabbit.com  Tue Aug 13 11:57:00 2002
From: wirehead at poorrabbit.com (j.cortmaior)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:57:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] virtual private server recommendations
In-Reply-To: <200208131300.g7DD0hI31128@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20020813090938.A53027-100000@fox.poorrabbit.com>

He spells collocation differently because it's a different kind of
service tham co-location. Very different. I think mention of the spelling
is even in an FAQ somewhere.

It's a top notch service. I'm sending email from it right now.

>>% To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>>% Subject: Re: [thelist] virtual private server recommendations
>>%
>>%
>>% You would be responsible for your own software, but for a virtual
>>% "dedicated" box, check out:
>>%
>>% http://www.johncompanies.com/collocation/
>>

>Me, I'm not ever going to give my co-location money
>to a guy who can't even spell it.


___________________________________________________________________
  Jon Cortmaior | poor rabbit consulting | unix geek | web monkey
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man
 who cannot read them."  -- Mark Twain
___________________________________________________________________
        rabbit at poorrabbit.com http://www.poorrabbit.com




From brad at beldamar.com  Tue Aug 13 11:58:34 2002
From: brad at beldamar.com (Brad Miller)
Date: Tue Aug 13 11:58:34 2002
Subject: [thelist] Running msxml
In-Reply-To: <65166550406.20020813030407@ozline.net>
Message-ID: <000401c242da$10760930$b1276844@beldamar>

It does sound like you have everything you need. I am not sure why it isn't
working for you.

~Another way to play with XSL is to use IE to show the output. IE6
~comes with MsXML 3 embedded. That's what it uses to parse XML/XSL.
~In your XML document link you xsl document just like you would a css
~page for html. IE will automatically parse and display your
~transformed XML. I'd say you should start out using IE, and not worry
~about the parsers right now.

The only problem with this method is that you cannot see the transformed
code. It will display the file correctly in the browser but if you view
source you will only see the original XML file. This makes it difficult to
debug your stylesheet.

~You really should get a book though, I highly recommend Beginning XML
~from Wrox. It covers all the bases, and doesn't get crazy. There is a
~command line XSL parser that he uses in the book to guide you through
~the basics that is very easy to figure out. Unfortunately the book is
~at work and I am not, or I'd give you a link to it :)
~O'Reilly's XSLT is a good XSLT book when you want to get deep into
~XSLT.

I believe you are refering to James Clark's XT. I have never used it but I
know there are several books out there that use it as an example.
http://www.jclark.com/xml/xt-old.html


Brad Miller
www.beldamar.com
www.x-etc.com
brad at beldamar.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A virus in a document is OK
(provided the DTD allows it)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From ben at inchima.com  Tue Aug 13 12:21:01 2002
From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips)
Date: Tue Aug 13 12:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] back web?
In-Reply-To: <8199762771.20020813175309@pmason.karoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002901c242ed$b1b9c760$0300a8c0@BS>

> FYI: If you are running KaZaA and you remove the
> adware/spyware components KaZaA may complain about it and not
> start as it checks for the components it installs before
> booting. Don't know if there are any hacks around this, but
> there might be.

sure, run kazaalite instead!

http://www.kazaalite.nl

benji.




From pinyo at greatnexus.com  Tue Aug 13 12:24:00 2002
From: pinyo at greatnexus.com (Pinyo Bhulipongsanon)
Date: Tue Aug 13 12:24:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mozilla is giving me strange errors
Message-ID: <20020813172149.41305.qmail@wm2.netfirms.com>

On Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:48:27 +0100, Garrett Coakley
<garrett at polytechnic.co.uk> wrote :
>
> Do you have a citation or a link to a bugzilla entry for this?
Can't say
> I've ever come across any problems using positioning with a linked
> stylesheet.
>
> G.
>

No link or citation. This is just based on my experience. The
original poster can give it a try...or not.


--
pinyo at greatnexus.com

Looking for tutorials and articles on web site development, visit us
at http://greatnexus.com  While you are there, drop by and join our
web community at http://greatnexus.com/edgeboard/



From richardgray at onetel.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 12:26:01 2002
From: richardgray at onetel.co.uk (Rich Gray)
Date: Tue Aug 13 12:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEEMDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <EDEGIPFFGBJHCIJCMPKOEENKCFAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>

Andrew
Sorry I was a bit late in on this thread - what is the problem with tick
boxes?
Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: 13 August 2002 08:49
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db



Excellent


This works but there are still a few problems and this isnt using a tick box
which was the original plan!

Thak you all for the help I will try to get the tick box working but I think
it
cant work because the form element is the email?

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Rich Gray
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 11:32
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


You forgot the echo mysql_error() ... and you don't seem to have selected
the database ...

Try something like this...

$link = mysql_connect("$dbhost","$dbuser","$dbpass") or die("Can't
connect");

if (mysql_select_db("mydatabase",$link)) {

	$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE  email='$email'";
	$result=mysql_query($sql);
         	if (mysql_num_rows($result) > 0)
             		echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        	else {
		if(!EmailOK($email)) {
			echo "The email address you submitted is not valid.";
			exit;
		}
		mysql_query("insert into mailinglux values('$email')");
	}
}
else {
	echo "Can't select the database";
	exit;
}

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: 13 August 2002 06:46
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


this 'Parse error: parse error, unexpected T_VARIABLE ' is displayed when I
put
this
mysql_error() in and when its out this

Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result
resource

is displayed

this is the code


include("settings.inc");

mysql_connect("$dbhost","$dbuser","$dbpass");

$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE
          email='$email'";
         $result=mysql_query($sql);
         $num=mysql_numrows($result);
         if ($num > 0)
             echo "<center><h3>You are already in our system</h3>";
        else {

mysql_error()

$sql = "INSERT INTO mailinglux(email) VALUES
('$name')";


if(!EmailOK($email)) {

echo "The email address you submitted is not valid.";

exit;
}

mysql_db_query($dbname, "insert into mailinglux values('','$email')");
}


Thank you

Andrew





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From joshua at waetech.com  Tue Aug 13 12:29:01 2002
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Tue Aug 13 12:29:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] How does Google access protected sites
References: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C446@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>
Message-ID: <028901c242ee$a4ca0d70$0200a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Feingold Josh S" <Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 12:11 PM


> I noticed that Google gets access to sites that usually need a username
and
> password to enter.  Does anyone know how Google manages to do this?
>
> Josh

I have a theory.  Perhaps they actually open the door for the google spider
using it's IP or something else.  Porno sites, for example, would benefit
from indexing by the search engines.

-joshua



From susanhw at webcastle.com  Tue Aug 13 12:33:01 2002
From: susanhw at webcastle.com (Susan Wallace)
Date: Tue Aug 13 12:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: Using CFFile, upload with Streaming Media
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020813122547.00c15100@pop-server.houston.rr.com>

Greetings!

I am hoping someone can shed some light on this for me. (After searching on
Google, I posted to MM Forums and got no response, so I decided to post here.)

I have an application that I inherited, the purpose of which is to upload a
file to the server.
The page uses CFFILE Action=Upload

This all works just fine with Large and small files in many different
formats - except Streaming Media files...(.WMF)

It appears that the receiving server interprets the file as something that
needs to stream, so it reads the encoding in the file and pauses before
changing "slides" or what have you.

The servers are CF5, NT4, SP6a IIS4.0,

Workstation is: IE6 on XP and uploading .wmf files

(On a Workstation not running XP, a .wmf file will transfer without
bombing, but it takes an inordinate amount of time to do so)

The specific error is:


Error Diagnostic Information
Error reading remainder of content stream (total bytes = 5078212, available
= 49152)

Windows NT error number 10060 occurred.

NT error 10060 is a network timeout
If a file transfer takes longer than 5 minutes, it stops the transfer and
throws an error.

Is it called a "content stream" because it's the standard terminology? Or
because it's a WMF file?

The CF Page has a "RequestTimeOut" in the URL, of 999999 (at the highest),
but that has not helped.

Changing the MIME properties in the server for that file type might fix the
upload issue, but then once on the server, it needs to behave as a
streaming file, and that wouldn't work correctly..

I was wondering if there would be some way to encrypt the file on the fly -
because the ONE user this is happening to is not cooperating or willing to
learn anything new - he's literally whining... (although the same thing
would happen if he had to upload to encrypt, unless I can have it encrypt
on the client side....?)

Suggestions? (See code below)

Thanks for the help!

  <cffile action="UPLOAD"
            filefield="docfile#this#"
            destination="W:\InetPub\wwwroot\Departments\#GetPath.ProdPath#\files\"
            nameconflict="MAKEUNIQUE">

<Tip type="Cold Fusion and File Transfers">
When you need to transfer a file from a client machine to a server, it
seems that you would use CFFTP - however, CFFTP is only for transferring
files from a CF server to an FTP server. In order to transfer files from a
client (browser) to a CF server, use CFFILE Action="upload". See MM
documentation for further information.
</tip>



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Tue Aug 13 12:34:14 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Tue Aug 13 12:34:14 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: CMS Tips and Tricks?
In-Reply-To: <001b01c2428f$1bd1b540$6401a8c0@FREEWILL>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPOEEMGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

matt,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Matt Liotta
>
> My company has a Flash MX based front-end for our
> CMS/Portal system that includes a WYSIWYG HTML editor.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

is the wysiwyg editor available by itself?  is there a demo somewhere online where i can see it?

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From slewis at macrovista.net  Tue Aug 13 12:38:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Tue Aug 13 12:38:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mySQL queries
References: <01c24244$d0a55260$21eb059a@rudy>
Message-ID: <3D59450F.4050606@macrovista.net>

rudy wrote:
> sorry to disagree but it's the other way round
>
> mysql lets you get away with crap that other databases don't

touche, but we can play tit-for-tat with examples.  That can introduce
ambiguity (however uncommonly it does happen, figuring out what happened
to your query in this case would be a pain).

specifically I was thinking about how mySQL won't let you just throw a
bunch of things into a series of subqueries and hope for the best.  The
highly irritating lack of subquery support forces the user to think more
carefully about what is really wanted -- that greater understanding of
the goal is valuable learning imho.

--Steve



From judah at wiredotter.com  Tue Aug 13 12:40:00 2002
From: judah at wiredotter.com (Judah McAuley)
Date: Tue Aug 13 12:40:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL help -- replacing OR to use index
References: <20020813002148.75710.qmail@web10704.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3D594407.10007@wiredotter.com>

Erick Papadakis wrote:
>  p.s., if you reply, kindly CC me as well.
>
> hi, i have the following SQL query
>
>   select col1 from table1
>   where
>   col2 = 'xxx' or col3 = 'xxx'
>
> how can i get rid of this OR? due to my table design and the logic
> involved, i have to check both these 2 columns (in a search function). i
> cannot concaneate them to make a third column because i need to check for
> exact match but for both the columns.

You most likely can't get rid of the OR statement and you should have
to.  OR is a basic boolean operator and is fundamental to SQL.  There
isn't any shame in using it.
>
> the EXPLAIN in mysql gives me the "ALL" type, which of course is not
> optimal. if i remove the OR in the above SQL, and make only one
> condition, then this EXPLAIN comes back as "const". this is ideal! and
> what i want.

The most ideal query would be something like SELECT '1' but that isn't
very useful is it?  No table scans, no boolean logic, nice simple plan.
  But the point is that if it doesn't get you what you want, it doesn't
matter how efficient the query is.  If you've got solid database design
then you shouldn't have to worry about using simple operators like OR
and AND.  The SQL engine is optimized to handle these sorts of
statements and should perform quite well.

> so what can i do to replace the OR? in a curious fit i tried :
>
>   select col1 from table1
>   where
>   'xxx' in (col2, col3)
>
> and to my surprise this works!!! but the EXPLAIN returns "ALL" again. so
> it is useless..

This is essentially the same WHERE statement just written with different
notation.  It gets parsed out to WHERE col2 = 'xxx' OR col3 = 'xxx'.

One thing that will speed up your query is to make sure that you have an
index on both col2 and col3.  If you have an index, then the engine will
scan the index first, find the proper row(s) and directly return those
rows.  This descreases the amount of time spent in the table itself.
Good index use and database tuning will help this situation a lot more
than trying to get rid of the OR in your SQL statement.

Hope this helps,
Judah



From andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 12:40:13 2002
From: andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Aug 13 12:40:13 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <EDEGIPFFGBJHCIJCMPKOEENKCFAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEFLDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>

Hi Rich

Basically I have an order form that submits client info and I want to give the
user the option to subscribe to a newsletter, the email is already in the form

<TR><TD>E-mail Address</TD><TD><input name="email" size="30"></TD></TR>

The form at the moments inserts the email into a mysql database without asking
if the visitor wants to be join the db for future newsletters, so a tick box
would be the best thing.  Unfortunately the same email field is also being used
to send the visitor a confirmation of their order so I am not sure what is the
best way forward on this one?  Maybe forget about the tick box!

Thank you

Andrew

PS  Is everyone else getting two of the same posts or is just me?
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02



From andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 12:40:31 2002
From: andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Aug 13 12:40:31 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <NEBBKJHBCLFCFFMCEMFIEENLECAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEFLDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>

cheers bob

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Bill Haenel
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 03:48
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


> Warning: mysql_numrows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL
> result resource
> in /usr/home/public_html/demo/order2.php on line 12
> couldn't execute query
>
> $$sql = "SELECT email FROM mailinglux WHERE

Extra '$' on $sql?

"$$sql" --  (see above)

BH
--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

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Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02



From mliotta at r337.com  Tue Aug 13 12:59:00 2002
From: mliotta at r337.com (Matt Liotta)
Date: Tue Aug 13 12:59:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: CMS Tips and Tricks?
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPOEEMGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <004c01c242f1$9b1cc260$6401a8c0@FREEWILL>

> is the wysiwyg editor available by itself?  is there a demo somewhere
> online where i can see it?
>
The editor is not available by itself as it is heavily integrated with
our product suite. Our front-end was designed with non-technical users
in mind, so the editor actually produces very specific markup fragments
meant to work within our system. The editor couldn't possibly stand
alone without significant work.

Demos are currently available only for prospective beta customers as our
product suite hasn't been released. However, when it is released in
September our Director of Sales will be holding weekly WebEx demos for
anyone who is interested.

-Matt



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Aug 13 13:02:00 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue Aug 13 13:02:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] MySQL/PHP - copy record?
In-Reply-To: <NEBBKJHBCLFCFFMCEMFIAENLECAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020813105802.01e7ebd0@baratta.com>

At 07:45 AM 8/13/2002, Bill Haenel wrote:

>Anyway, I have a record in a MySQL DB and I want to put a button on my form
>that says 'copy this record'.
>
>I can think of several ways this can be done using PHP, but what I'd really
>like to do it make it happen almost (if not) 100% by query, to avoid messy
>coding. Is there a way to do this all via SQL? All info from one record to
>the other would be duped except for date (not datestamp) and id.

Something like this??

Form passes Row ID (##) to PHP Script.

insert into Table1 (Fld1, Fld2, Fld3)
values (select Fld1, Fld2, Fld3 from table1 where ID = ##)


---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From Gary at star-chaser.com  Tue Aug 13 13:04:00 2002
From: Gary at star-chaser.com (Gary Bland)
Date: Tue Aug 13 13:04:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mozilla is giving me strange errors
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020813071737.009f4190@accessibleinter.net>
Message-ID: <3D5949BB.6020807@star-chaser.com>

Bill Mason wrote:
> At 06:07 AM 08/13/2002, Lachlan Cannon wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know why Mozilla isn't displaying my page
>> http://luminosity.f2o.org/thoughts/admin/add/ ?
>>
>> PS Yes I'm aware that not delivering the file as application/xhtml+xml
>> will 'solve' the problem.. I want to know what's causing it, and be able
>> to fix that.
>
>
> It's working fine in my 1.1b nightly build, 2002080614.  What version are
> you having a problem in?
>

in Mozilla 1.0 it is displaying an error for line 57 for &nbsp

<div class="formrow"><span class="label">&nbsp;</span><input
-----------------------------------------^

Gary



--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today



From bill at webmarketingworx.com  Tue Aug 13 13:13:01 2002
From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel)
Date: Tue Aug 13 13:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] MySQL/PHP - copy record?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020813105802.01e7ebd0@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBKJHBCLFCFFMCEMFIMEOGECAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>

> > All info from one record to
> > the other would be duped except for date (not datestamp) and id.
>
> Something like this??
>
> Form passes Row ID (##) to PHP Script.
>
> insert into Table1 (Fld1, Fld2, Fld3)
> values (select Fld1, Fld2, Fld3 from table1 where ID = ##)

Yes, that's great! That would definitely do it.

I wonder, though, is there a way to do this without specifying each field
name? It would be nice to not have to go back and edit the code much later
if I decide to add fields or something. Plus, I have many fields in this
particular table, so it would be cool to somehow shorten it. '*' wouldn't
work of course, because it would copy the entire record, and I need a new
date and id. Is there an "ALL BUT" or something?

If there is no other way, this is certainly do-able.

Bill



From freda.lockert at btinternet.com  Tue Aug 13 13:31:01 2002
From: freda.lockert at btinternet.com (Freda Lockert)
Date: Tue Aug 13 13:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] The great gecko swtich begins - AOL for OS X
 released
In-Reply-To: <3D58D178.4050609@ntlworld.com>
References: <3D58D178.4050609@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b01b97effea9103@[62.7.124.116]>

How did you get it? None of the links on that page are live!

Freda

>AOL has just released their AOL software for OS X, this is based on the
>Gecko layout engine (the prefs look scarily like those in Mozilla on X),
>   so it looks like the resurgence of 'Netscape' browsers is about to
>begin - and that standards compliant cross browser coding really is
>about to get more important.
>
>Download page:
><http://free.aol.com/tryaolfree/dnld_aol/download_aol.adp#mac_os_x>




From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 13:50:01 2002
From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr)
Date: Tue Aug 13 13:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Running msxml
In-Reply-To: <000401c242da$10760930$b1276844@beldamar>
Message-ID: <000001c242f9$552abf70$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>

> It does sound like you have everything you need. I am not sure why it
isn't working for you.

Tell me about it - it's driving me mad!

~Another way to play with XSL is to use IE to show the output. IE6
~comes with MsXML 3 embedded. That's what it uses to parse XML/XSL. ~In
your XML document link you xsl document just like you would a css ~page
for html. IE will automatically parse and display your ~transformed XML.
I'd say you should start out using IE, and not worry ~about the parsers
right now.

Yep - this is why I want to run the parser.  I've actually got both
Beginning XML and also Beginning XSLT, and both are starting to get into
the whole parsing thing as opposed to just viewing in the browser.

 > The only problem with this method is that you cannot see the
transformed code. It will display the file correctly in the >  browser
but if you view source you will only see the original XML file. This
makes it difficult to debug your            >  stylesheet.

<snip>

> I believe you are refering to James Clark's XT. I have never used it
but I know there are several books out there that   > use it as an
example. http://www.jclark.com/xml/xt-old.html

Thanks for the help.  Something's obviously wrong somewhere.  Stupid XP
Professional.

Regards

Francis




From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Aug 13 13:58:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue Aug 13 13:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] MySQL/PHP - copy record?
In-Reply-To: <NEBBKJHBCLFCFFMCEMFIMEOGECAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020813105802.01e7ebd0@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020813115323.01e7aff8@baratta.com>

At 11:12 AM 8/13/2002, Bill Haenel wrote:

>I wonder, though, is there a way to do this without specifying each field
>name? It would be nice to not have to go back and edit the code much later
>if I decide to add fields or something. Plus, I have many fields in this
>particular table, so it would be cool to somehow shorten it. '*' wouldn't
>work of course, because it would copy the entire record, and I need a new
>date and id. Is there an "ALL BUT" or something?

Not that I'm aware of. If you want to make it a bit easier in yourself, you
could put all the column names in an array and build the SQL statement with
that.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From amy at rocky-hills.com  Tue Aug 13 14:11:00 2002
From: amy at rocky-hills.com (Amy Johnson)
Date: Tue Aug 13 14:11:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Trying to center using CSS
Message-ID: <MBBBKCIHDGAIONCKNKJJEECPCDAA.amy@rocky-hills.com>

Hi all.  Thanks for the input on my problem (especially thanks to Mark G for pointing out other problems).  With your help I have
gotten my web page to center on the screen in IE6.  But, I still can't get it to center in Netscape 6.  I have put some very simple
files together to illustrate the problem.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

(and to explain...DIV.NSbug seems to be the only way I can get Netscape to read my BODY attributes.	And I believe that I *have* to
set DIV.box to position:relative since I have items with absolute positioning within DIV.box.)


Thanks!
Amy


===============================================
STYLE.CSS
===============================================
<style>
<!--
DIV.NSbug       {background-color: black;}

BODY            {background-color: black;
                margin: 0;
                padding: 0;}

DIV.main        {color:white;
                width: 100%;
                margin: 0;
                text-align: center;}

DIV.box         {position: relative;
                height: 550px;
                width: 600px;
                margin-top: 70px;
                margin-bottom: 70px;
                border-style: outset;
                border-width: 5px;}

P.text          {position: absolute;
                top: 50px;
                right: 50px;}
-->
</style>

============================================
TEST.HTML
============================================
<html lang="en-US">
<head>
<link rel=stylesheet type="text/css"
      href="style.css">

</head>
<body>
  <div class=main>
    <div class=box>
	<p class=text>This is a test. This is a test</p>
    </div>
  </div>
</body>
</html>
=============================================




From wil at inaridesign.com  Tue Aug 13 14:25:00 2002
From: wil at inaridesign.com (Wil Cone)
Date: Tue Aug 13 14:25:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Windows Exchange Server 2000 form mail?
Message-ID: <000001c242f7$64545940$7d0deb43@PBJELLY>

I'm used to working with small sites running on Unix hosts. Therefore I
usually use formmail.pl (and by extension, sendmail) to process a simple
"contact us" form.

Formmail.pl processes the submitted data and a nicely formatted email is
sent via sendmail.

Now I'm working with a company using Windows Exchange Server 2000. I
have no idea how to process a similar "contact us" email form.

Any help would be much appreciated...

- Wil



From slewis at macrovista.net  Tue Aug 13 14:33:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Tue Aug 13 14:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: Using CFFile, upload with Streaming Media
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020813122547.00c15100@pop-server.houston.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3D59602D.3050301@macrovista.net>

Susan Wallace wrote:

> The specific error is:
 >
> Error reading remainder of content stream (total bytes = 5078212, available
> = 49152)
>
> Windows NT error number 10060 occurred.

> Is it called a "content stream" because it's the standard terminology? Or
> because it's a WMF file?
Looks like you are getting a network timeout error, but that very little
data was transfering before it 'paused', as you said.  I would bet that
it would be called a content stream regardless of file extension or MIME
property.  This is an artifact of the programming language used to
develop NT.

 > Suggestions? (See code below)
I think you will need more conclusive evidence to identify the cause.

As an experiment, try uploading the WMF file after ZIPping it with
WinZip or whatever.  You can monkey with your CF upload script to make
use of something like CFXZip to extract it on the server-side if needed.

You may also be able to get some success, if the 'streaming media'
theory is correct for causing the failure to upload properly, by
renaming the file to a ._WMF at the client side then uploading.  You
could test for the _WMF extension and remove the underscore after upload
or something.

If you are still getting these errors after trying these sort of
work-arounds than its time to go hunting for another cause.

--Steve



From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Tue Aug 13 14:52:01 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Tue Aug 13 14:52:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Windows Exchange Server 2000 form mail?
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A127@fsjubj09>

>Formmail.pl processes the submitted data and a nicely formatted email is
>sent via sendmail.
>
>Now I'm working with a company using Windows Exchange Server 2000. I
>have no idea how to process a similar "contact us" email form.

Can the web server run Perl? If so you can plug in formmail.pl and use it
just fine. The users have standard SMTP addresses, right?

-dave


From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Aug 13 15:16:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue Aug 13 15:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] US based ASP hosting
Message-ID: <01c24306$018a49a0$b2e6059a@rudy>

> Could someone recommend some ASP hosting
> where the servers are in the US.

http://crystaltech.com/ is in the middle of the country somewhere

dunno how cheap they are (SSL starts in plan II) but i can vouch for their
service, it is stellar

rudy
http://rudy.ca/



From headlemur at clearskymail.com  Tue Aug 13 15:30:01 2002
From: headlemur at clearskymail.com (the head lemur)
Date: Tue Aug 13 15:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] US based ASP hosting
References: <01c24306$018a49a0$b2e6059a@rudy>
Message-ID: <004201c24308$6b5f4400$0400a8c0@clearskybroadband.com>

> http://crystaltech.com/ is in the middle of the country somewhere

> dunno how cheap they are (SSL starts in plan II) but i can vouch for their
> service, it is stellar
+1
Located in Phoenix Arizona about a mile from my place...

I am moving every one of my domains over there as fast as I can.
They are a WIN2000 Host and really really know what they are doing!

The only oddball thing is the statistics package reports every hack attempt
as errors by domain....

the head lemur
News: http://www.lemurzone.com/news/
Interviews: http://www.lemurzone.com/pixelview/
Standards: http://webstandards.org
Community: http://www.evolt.org




From framar at interlog.com  Tue Aug 13 15:40:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Tue Aug 13 15:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] back web?
In-Reply-To: <8199762771.20020813175309@pmason.karoo.co.uk>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020813121729.00ae7688@mail.interlog.com>
 <3D563F27.16134.B63ECE0C@localhost>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020813121729.00ae7688@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020813163654.00b0d330@mail.interlog.com>

At 05:53 PM 8/13/2002 +0100, you wrote:
 > FYI If you are running KaZaA and you remove the
 > adware/spyware components KaZaA may complain about it and
 > not start as it checks for the components it installs
 > before booting. Don't know if there are any hacks around
 > this, but there might be.

http://www.kazaalite.tk/

http://www.cleanclients.tk/



Frank Marion
framar at interlog.com





From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 13 15:53:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Tue Aug 13 15:53:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] image submit button with text field issue
Message-ID: <20020813205230.62176.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm using a image as a submit button. Its next to a text input like
so:

<input type="text" size="30" name="searchEntry" style="width: 200px">
<input type="image" name="submitStart" src="images/Find.gif"
border="0" />

However, when you click the text box - it acts just as though you
clicked the submit image...no idea why. Can I fix this?

I'm looking at it in ie5.5..

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Aug 13 15:55:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue Aug 13 15:55:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] MySQL/PHP - copy record?
Message-ID: <01c2430b$69c64d20$b2e6059a@rudy>

>  Is there an "ALL BUT" or something?

nope, but i like how you think  ;o)

you're right, you'll just have to grit your teeth and list all the columns
except for the date...

... and the auto_increment column

<tip type="sql">
if your INSERT sql statement permits you to omit the name of a column, and
have its value be automatically generated, do so rather than providing the
default value in the INSERT statement
</tip>

some people write mysql INSERT statements supplying NULL for auto_increment
columns, a naughty practice (double entendre pun definitely intended) that
will not work in other databases

the tip applies equally well to any columns defined NOT NULL with DEFAULT

just leave them out of the INSERT statement altogether

sadly, mysql, unlike most databases, won't let you use a function in a
DEFAULT clause, so you must set it yourself if it's a DATETIME data type,
e.g.

  insert into yourtable ( foo, credate, bar)
     values ('foo', now(), 'bar')

however, if you make it a TIMESTAMP...

  "The TIMESTAMP column type provides a type that you can use
   to automatically mark INSERT or UPDATE operations with the
   current date and time. If you have multiple TIMESTAMP columns,
   only the first one is updated automatically."

http://www.mysql.com/documentation/mysql/bychapter/index.html#DATETIME

i've used timestamp as follows --

create table foo
 ( id integer not null auto_increment primary key
 , credate timestamp not null
 , revdate timestamp null
 ...

my initial INSERT statement mentions neither credate nor revdate, so
credate gets set to the current timestamp automatically, while revdate is
set to null (meaning that the row hasn't been updated yet)

subsequent updates always start off with

    set revdate=now()

thus explicitly setting the revised date and time using the database's
timestamp

(other assignments follow, each starting with a comma  ;o) )

in neither case is it necessary to pass in the date and time from the
calling script


helps?


rudy






From richardgray at onetel.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 15:58:01 2002
From: richardgray at onetel.co.uk (Rich Gray)
Date: Tue Aug 13 15:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEFLDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <EDEGIPFFGBJHCIJCMPKOIEOGCFAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>

Andrew
So does this not work?
Rich

<TR><TD>E-mail Address</TD><TD><input name="email" size="30"></TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Subscribe?</TD><TD><input type="checkbox"
name="subscribe"></TD></TR>

And in the PHP code...

<?

if (isset($_POST['subscribe'])) {
	// Do the database stuff
}
?>
-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: 13 August 2002 10:42
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php add email to a mysql db


Hi Rich

Basically I have an order form that submits client info and I want to give
the
user the option to subscribe to a newsletter, the email is already in the
form

<TR><TD>E-mail Address</TD><TD><input name="email" size="30"></TD></TR>

The form at the moments inserts the email into a mysql database without
asking
if the visitor wants to be join the db for future newsletters, so a tick box
would be the best thing.  Unfortunately the same email field is also being
used
to send the visitor a confirmation of their order so I am not sure what is
the
best way forward on this one?  Maybe forget about the tick box!

Thank you

Andrew

PS  Is everyone else getting two of the same posts or is just me?
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02

--
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the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
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From andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 16:00:06 2002
From: andrew at uk-webdeveloper.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Tue Aug 13 16:00:06 2002
Subject: [thelist] Virus
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEGFDHAA.andrew@uk-webdeveloper.co.uk>

I have received a couple of emails and replied to them the latest one when I
scroll down tabs across the page untill the screen is full of black horizontal
lines....

My immediate thought was virus, then I thought no it cant be I am running avg
and its upo to date!

Then I just received an email blank with Tabindex in the subject and it was from
one of my sites?

Any ideas please

Andrew

Tel: +44 (0) 777 55 212 95

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Information in this email is confidential and may be privileged.
It is intended for the addressee only. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your system.
You should not otherwise copy it, retransmit it or use or disclose its
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**********************************************************************
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02



From fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk  Tue Aug 13 16:01:01 2002
From: fffrancis at fstorr.demon.co.uk (fstorr)
Date: Tue Aug 13 16:01:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Map element for grouping navigation
Message-ID: <000001c2430b$8b05a760$4363989e@DHGQCD0J>

Hi all

Stupid msxml woes aside (and I can seem to run Joe Clarke's stuff
either, so it must be my pc...), I was just reading up on the HTML Map
element.

The W3C says that it can be used to group navigational elements together
(not just image maps).

http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#group-bypass (the accessibility
stuff)

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/objects.html#edef-MAP (the spec
stuff)


I've never seen this used anywhere other than for image maps - is there
a reason for this?

Are there any pros and cons to this?

Cheers

Francis




From scotts at rci-nv.com  Tue Aug 13 16:06:01 2002
From: scotts at rci-nv.com (Scott Schrantz)
Date: Tue Aug 13 16:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Windows Exchange Server 2000 form mail?
Message-ID: <D719D61D4BD8D311A26700A0C9E0E7B649EBA9@SERVER1>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wil Cone [mailto:wil at inaridesign.com]
>
> I'm used to working with small sites running on Unix hosts.
> Therefore I usually use formmail.pl (and by extension, sendmail)
> to process a simple "contact us" form.
>
> Now I'm working with a company using Windows Exchange Server 2000. I
> have no idea how to process a similar "contact us" email form.

On Windows, instead of SendMail you'd use CDONTS.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;Q186204
http://www.4guysfromrolla.com/webtech/faq/Email/faq2.shtml

It takes a little configuration to get CDONTS to work through Exchange
Server, but there's not much to it. Talk with your Exchange administrator
about that. ASP can communicate directly with Exchange through CDO, but
that's much more complicated, and overkill for  sending simple e-mails.
http://www.microsoft.com/exchange/techinfo/development/55/CDO.asp

Someone might even be able to point you to drop-in ASP replacements for
formmail; I'm not familiar with any. Your best bet is to customize the mail
script yourself.

--
Scott Schrantz
work: www.rci-nv.com
play: www.computer-vet.com


From r937 at interlog.com  Tue Aug 13 16:07:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Tue Aug 13 16:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mySQL queries
Message-ID: <01c2430d$34996860$b2e6059a@rudy>

> The highly irritating lack of subquery support forces the user
> to think more carefully about what is really wanted -- that greater
> understanding of the goal is valuable learning imho.

totally agree

sadly, many people just use scripting logic to compensate

that's not necessarily bad, it could just perhaps be better

on the whole, i really like mysql


rudy





From jyee at vt.edu  Tue Aug 13 16:58:01 2002
From: jyee at vt.edu (Jackson Yee)
Date: Tue Aug 13 16:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] image submit button with text field issue
Message-ID: <3D61008C@zathras>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Dell'Aringa" <pixelmech at yahoo.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 16:52
Subject: [thelist] image submit button with text field issue


> I'm using a image as a submit button. Its next to a text input like
> so:
>
> <input type="text" size="30" name="searchEntry" style="width: 200px">
> <input type="image" name="submitStart" src="images/Find.gif"
> border="0" />
>
> However, when you click the text box - it acts just as though you
> clicked the submit image...no idea why. Can I fix this?
>
> I'm looking at it in ie5.5..

Tom, I'm looking at the code in IE6 on Windows 2000, and the text field and
image buttons work just fine.

Might this have something to do with your width: declaration?

Regards,
Jackson Yee
jyee at vt.edu
http://www.jacksonyee.com/



From sam.richardson at outwide.co.nz  Tue Aug 13 17:10:01 2002
From: sam.richardson at outwide.co.nz (Sam Richardson)
Date: Tue Aug 13 17:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Resample Image / Thumbnail creation
References: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPCEFIGFAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <00d501c24315$cb7cc080$0102060a@studio.toolbox.co.nz>

I've been trying to write a function that will take an existing image and
resize for a thumbnail. The thumbnail must have a set width but scale the
height in proportation to the width.

I can create the thumbnail ok but the image quality is very very poor, it's
quite blocky with strange patches/blocks of color on it.

I've tried using the following function: ImageCopyResampled
(http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.imagecopyresampled.php)

and also located on the same page: ImageCopyResampledBicubic

but both produce similar looking thumbnails. It almost seems that the JPGs
that are being produced have a very low quality set to them. Is there
anything obvious that I might be doing wrong? Or can anyone point me in the
direction of a function that will take an existing image and scale it to a
set width (keep the height in ratio to the width).



From joshua at waetech.com  Tue Aug 13 17:46:01 2002
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Tue Aug 13 17:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ActiveX FTP Object
Message-ID: <039c01c2431a$da96ecd0$0200a8c0@client1>

Does anybody know of an FTP object that will allow for multiple GETs to be
performed in realtime with a single connection?  I've looked at some of the
Freeware utilities that get files one at a time, but they incur an overhead
when the connection is created.

TIA,

-joshua



From slewis at macrovista.net  Tue Aug 13 18:17:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Tue Aug 13 18:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ActiveX FTP Object
References: <039c01c2431a$da96ecd0$0200a8c0@client1>
Message-ID: <3D5994BB.4010907@macrovista.net>

Joshua Olson wrote:
> Does anybody know of an FTP object that will allow for multiple GETs to be
> performed in realtime with a single connection?  I've looked at some of the
> Freeware utilities that get files one at a time, but they incur an overhead
> when the connection is created.

By design, you cannot perform multiple simultaneous GETs by FTP.  The
FTP protocol does not support this behavior.  Multiple concurrent GETS
require one connection each.

BTW, the behavior known as 'leeching' is generally not appreciated by
hosts, which is why many modern FTP servers will limit anonymous users
to a small # of concurrent connections (sometimes only 1!) and/or
throttle bandwidth of each connection... which is probably why you find
yourself in this dilemna.  I will also point out that the way TCP/IP is
designed you are not supposed to be able to get 5 files faster by doing
them all at once than you would by downloading them in serial (one at a
time).

With that understanding, you could create a new protocol (it's not that
hard) that stands on the shoulders of giants ... and create a toy client
and server app easily in Java as proof of concept ... which would accept
a list of files to GET, dump them into a JAR/ZIP archive, transfer the
archive on one TCP connection, and unJAR/ZIP them on the client end, in
realtime.  The only benefit you would have over an automated/scripted
traditional FTP is when you were working with large numbers of small
files where the handshaking and setup for each file becomes prohibitive
(when deploying a large static website for example with lots and lots of
relatively small-- < 20k --text files).

Of course there are shortcomings you would need to deal with. Such as,
if the archive was not completely xfered or errors were introduced you
could recover NONE of the component files because the archive would be
invalid (an artifact of how ZIP and most every file compression/archive
algorithm works).  This is generally how we xfered fidomail (email)
messages and echomail (newsgroups) back in my BBS days.



From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org  Tue Aug 13 18:17:13 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Tue Aug 13 18:17:13 2002
Subject: [thelist] Icon Extraction
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020813160235.00b13c00@members.evolt.org>

Hello All :

Does anyone know what file (.dll, .exe) contains the icons for Office XP? I
am looking to extract them for a control panel applet that I am building
for a site.


Thanks again,
Burhan




From jlucido at version4.com  Tue Aug 13 18:24:00 2002
From: jlucido at version4.com (Jeff Lucido)
Date: Tue Aug 13 18:24:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Icon Extraction
Message-ID: <F25E370D676C0542A2C662E9A6EA0883144921@fs1.v4tech.org>

Burhan:

I am not too sure you want to do that since there may be copyright
issues involved with Microsoft. A great solution can be found by using
these guys from Australia. They have excellent sets:

http://www.glyfx.com/

Good luck!
-JSLucido

-----Original Message-----
From: Burhan Khalid [mailto:burhankhalid at members.evolt.org]
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 6:03 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Icon Extraction


Hello All :

Does anyone know what file (.dll, .exe) contains the icons for Office
XP? I am looking to extract them for a control panel applet that I am
building for a site.


Thanks again,
Burhan


--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !


From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 13 18:29:00 2002
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Tue Aug 13 18:29:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Icon Extraction
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020813160235.00b13c00@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20020813232800.76181.qmail@web13504.mail.yahoo.com>

> Does anyone know what file (.dll, .exe) contains the icons for Office XP? I
> am looking to extract them for a control panel applet that I am building
> for a site.

Isn't just the .exe file for each sub-app of XP (word.exe, access.exe)?


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org  Tue Aug 13 18:33:01 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Tue Aug 13 18:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Icon Extraction
In-Reply-To: <F25E370D676C0542A2C662E9A6EA0883144921@fs1.v4tech.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020813161824.00b3add0@members.evolt.org>

At 06:23 PM 8/13/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Burhan:
>
>I am not too sure you want to do that since there may be copyright
>issues involved with Microsoft. A great solution can be found by using
>these guys from Australia. They have excellent sets:
>
>http://www.glyfx.com/
>
>Good luck!
>-JSLucido


Thanks for the link! I found the icons that I needed in the free section!

One question though. Say I was to create an icon (such as the B for bold
that is almost universal). Would I then be violating copyright?




From francoisconstantineau at videotron.ca  Tue Aug 13 20:17:00 2002
From: francoisconstantineau at videotron.ca (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Constantineau?=)
Date: Tue Aug 13 20:17:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Justify with NS 4.x
Message-ID: <3D59C9D3.4050509@videotron.ca>

Hi,
Checking the following url:
http://www.shogix.net/lexique-d-k.html
with NS 4.79, the browser refuses obstinately to justify the text, which
is styled  with CSS p {text-align: justify;}.
But I have three other pages made exactly like this one (same code and
structure, only the  text is different). and NS 4 renders these ones the
way I want, namely with justify text. Compare with:
http://www.shogix.net/lexique-abc.html

When I  reduce the window,  NS 4 now justifies the text!

The test was made on 1024-768 screen and everything is fine with other
browser.

Did I miss anything?



From evolt at funkwit.com  Tue Aug 13 20:54:01 2002
From: evolt at funkwit.com (Paul Cowan)
Date: Tue Aug 13 20:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [maybe OT] mozilla question
Message-ID: <066501c24335$39a3a9b0$3e02a8c0@cusack>

OK all,

I've finally made the switch from "using mozilla as a backup/test browser"
to "using mozilla as main browser" (fingers crossed).

One question, the answer which is probably enormously obvious, but it
has me stumped. How can I make links executed externally (e.g. clicking
links in Outlook, or entering them in Start -> Run), open in new windows
(or tabs).

In other words, don't reuse the same window: start a new one. The IE
equivalent is "Internet Options -> Advanced -> Browsing -> Reuse windows
for launching shortcuts", but buggered if I can find it mozilla.

Help please.

Paul

<tip type="IIS">
Keep getting a "printers" virtual directory added to your IIS default
web site every time you reboot? It's annoying AND a security risk. To
kill it:

- Nuke %SystemRoot%\web\printers

- Remove the .printer ISAPI extension

- Use the MMC Group Policy snap-in to turn off the "web based printing"
  option, or it'll all be re-created again on reboot.
</tip>



From dbaxo at ihug.co.nz  Tue Aug 13 21:08:01 2002
From: dbaxo at ihug.co.nz (Duncan O'Neill)
Date: Tue Aug 13 21:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] javascript pre-loads slow in IE
Message-ID: <3D59BD01.6090401@ihug.co.nz>

Hi all,

would someone (or two) be kind enough to check
whether the javascript rollover images pre-loads
on the following page (and one linked off it)
are working.

http://members.evolt.org/dbo/rumours/

They work fine in Moz 1.0, Opera 6.0, NN4.7, but
not in IE5.5. In that browser, the rollovers are
happening, but the rollover images don't appear to
be pre-loading, rather they seem to be loading
only on mouseover. i.e. they're there, just not
pre-loading.

The .js is in a different directory to the pages,
but the images are called with reference to the
page itself, which has worked fine until now.

This is the javascript file:
http://members.evolt.org/dbo/rumours/js/mouseovers.js

thanks in advance,
--
=====================================================
Duncan O'Neill
"Smith The Reporter"
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dbaxo/urban_legend.htm
=====================================================



From dbaxo at ihug.co.nz  Tue Aug 13 21:15:01 2002
From: dbaxo at ihug.co.nz (Duncan O'Neill)
Date: Tue Aug 13 21:15:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [maybe OT] mozilla question
References: <066501c24335$39a3a9b0$3e02a8c0@cusack>
Message-ID: <3D59BEC0.8020406@ihug.co.nz>

Paul Cowan wrote:
> OK all,
>
> I've finally made the switch from "using mozilla as a backup/test browser"
> to "using mozilla as main browser" (fingers crossed).
>
> One question, the answer which is probably enormously obvious, but it
> has me stumped. How can I make links executed externally (e.g. clicking
> links in Outlook, or entering them in Start -> Run), open in new windows
> (or tabs).
>
Paul,

One way to do it is, if you're on Windows,
right-click links, and chose either "open
in new window", or "open in new tab" from
the pop-up.

There are also options in Edit -> Preferences
-> Navigator / Tabbed browsing, but not all
of them are effective (at least in 1.0)

hth,
--
=====================================================
Duncan O'Neill
"Smith The Reporter"
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dbaxo/urban_legend.htm
=====================================================



From dbaxo at ihug.co.nz  Tue Aug 13 21:22:00 2002
From: dbaxo at ihug.co.nz (Duncan O'Neill)
Date: Tue Aug 13 21:22:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Justify with NS 4.x
References: <3D59C9D3.4050509@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <3D59C06E.6070607@ihug.co.nz>

Fran?ois Constantineau wrote:
> Hi,
> Checking the following url:
> http://www.shogix.net/lexique-d-k.html
> with NS 4.79, the browser refuses obstinately to justify the text, which
> is styled  with CSS p {text-align: justify;}.
> But I have three other pages made exactly like this
<snip>
> When I  reduce the window,  NS 4 now justifies the text!
> The test was made on 1024-768 screen and everything is fine with other
> browser.
> Did I miss anything?

Not as far as I can tell. It works fine for me
PC/ NN4.7. Text is justified, and displayed.
--
=====================================================
Duncan O'Neill
"Smith The Reporter"
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dbaxo/urban_legend.htm
=====================================================



From jonathon at quotidian.org  Tue Aug 13 21:33:00 2002
From: jonathon at quotidian.org (Jonathon Jongsma)
Date: Tue Aug 13 21:33:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] [maybe OT] mozilla question
In-Reply-To: <3D59BEC0.8020406@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <000201c2433a$982c7610$0201a8c0@jonner2>

I think what you want is this:

Edit > Preferences... > Advanced > System

Then click the boxes telling mozilla to handle the http: protocol

Jonathon

> Paul Cowan wrote:
> > OK all,
> >
> > I've finally made the switch from "using mozilla as a backup/test
> > browser" to "using mozilla as main browser" (fingers crossed).
> >
> > One question, the answer which is probably enormously
> obvious, but it
> > has me stumped. How can I make links executed externally (e.g.
> > clicking links in Outlook, or entering them in Start ->
> Run), open in
> > new windows (or tabs).
> >
> Paul,




From evolt at accessibleinter.net  Tue Aug 13 21:36:01 2002
From: evolt at accessibleinter.net (Bill Mason)
Date: Tue Aug 13 21:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [maybe OT] mozilla question
In-Reply-To: <20020814021706.7FCC63A47@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020813193008.009f8250@accessibleinter.net>

At 07:17 PM 08/13/2002, Paul Cowan wrote:
>One question, the answer which is probably enormously obvious, but it
>has me stumped. How can I make links executed externally (e.g. clicking
>links in Outlook, or entering them in Start -> Run), open in new windows
>(or tabs).
>
>In other words, don't reuse the same window: start a new one. The IE
>equivalent is "Internet Options -> Advanced -> Browsing -> Reuse windows
>for launching shortcuts", but buggered if I can find it mozilla.

There is no control in the UI for that.  It actually used to work that way
automatically, then suddenly shortly after the 1.1 alpha milestone, it
started working the other way for no clear reason.  What to do about it
(and some workarounds to get it working the way you might want) is
discussed in this Bugzilla bug:
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155402

Bill Mason
Accessible Internet
evolt at accessibleinter.net
http://www.accessibleinter.net/




From pkaulbak at idirect.ca  Tue Aug 13 21:44:01 2002
From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback)
Date: Tue Aug 13 21:44:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] The great gecko swtich begins - AOL for OS X
  released
In-Reply-To: <a05111b01b97effea9103@[62.7.124.116]>
References: <3D58D178.4050609@ntlworld.com>
 <3D58D178.4050609@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020813224305.02ac9d28@mail.idirect.ca>

Go here:
ftp://ftp.newaol.com/aol6.0/253646/install_aol_osx.hqx

Peter Kaulback

In the hour of 07:29 PM 8/13/2002 +0100, Freda Lockert spoke this:

>How did you get it? None of the links on that page are live!
>
>Freda
>
>>AOL has just released their AOL software for OS X, this is based on the
>>Gecko layout engine (the prefs look scarily like those in Mozilla on X),
>>   so it looks like the resurgence of 'Netscape' browsers is about to
>>begin - and that standards compliant cross browser coding really is
>>about to get more important.
>>
>>Download page:
>><http://free.aol.com/tryaolfree/dnld_aol/download_aol.adp#mac_os_x>



From joshua at waetech.com  Tue Aug 13 22:26:00 2002
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Tue Aug 13 22:26:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] ActiveX FTP Object
References: <039c01c2431a$da96ecd0$0200a8c0@client1> <3D5994BB.4010907@macrovista.net>
Message-ID: <03c301c24341$ff138600$0200a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Lewis" <slewis at macrovista.net>
Subject: Re: [thelist] ActiveX FTP Object


> Joshua Olson wrote:
> > Does anybody know of an FTP object that will allow for multiple GETs to
be
> > performed in realtime with a single connection?  I've looked at some of
the
> > Freeware utilities that get files one at a time, but they incur an
overhead
> > when the connection is created.
>
> By design, you cannot perform multiple simultaneous GETs by FTP.  The
> FTP protocol does not support this behavior.  Multiple concurrent GETS
> require one connection each.

It's probably my request wasn't necessarily very well stated.  I'm trying to
download a large number of files.  The utilities I've found go through the
entire process for every file.  That is: connect, authenticate, change
directory, then download.  I'm looking for a utility that will simulate the
following FTP commands:

ftp www.domain.com
user foo
pass bar
"cd myfolder"
"get file1"
"get file2"
"get file3"
...etc...
quit

I'm looking for it to minimize the time by not reauthenticating for every
file.

Thanks for all the good info so far.

-joshua



From evolt at funkwit.com  Tue Aug 13 22:41:00 2002
From: evolt at funkwit.com (Paul Cowan)
Date: Tue Aug 13 22:41:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] [maybe OT] mozilla question
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020813193008.009f8250@accessibleinter.net>
Message-ID: <067701c24344$2d4d8f50$3e02a8c0@cusack>

Bill Mason wrote:
> There is no control in the UI for that.  It actually used to work that way
> automatically, then suddenly shortly after the 1.1 alpha milestone, it
> started working the other way for no clear reason.  What to do about it
> (and some workarounds to get it working the way you might want) is
> discussed in this Bugzilla bug:
> http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155402

Grrraargh.

That worked a treat. Thanks Bill.

<tip type="Mozilla">
Sick of windows being reused when clicking on a mail link with mozilla
1.x as your default browser? To force "open all external links in a new
window"-type behaviour, add the following lines to your user.js file
(create it if it doesn't exist, in the same place as prefs.js):

user_pref("browser.always_reuse_window", false);
user_pref("advanced.system.supportDDEExec", false);
</tip>



From php at erasinar.com  Tue Aug 13 22:52:01 2002
From: php at erasinar.com (Wahyu Harsono)
Date: Tue Aug 13 22:52:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] How does Google access protected sites
References: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C446@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>
Message-ID: <001b01c24342$e603b3a0$0400a8c0@bb>

Google / GoogleBot Could Not Type Pass And UserName, They Could Not Crawl
Those Page..

Thx

----- Original Message -----
From: "Feingold Josh S" <Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 11:11 PM
Subject: [thelist] How does Google access protected sites


> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> I noticed that Google gets access to sites that usually need a username
and
> password to enter.  Does anyone know how Google manages to do this?
>
> Josh
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>




From jlucido at version4.com  Tue Aug 13 23:25:00 2002
From: jlucido at version4.com (Jeff Lucido)
Date: Tue Aug 13 23:25:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Icon Extraction
Message-ID: <F25E370D676C0542A2C662E9A6EA0883144922@fs1.v4tech.org>

Burhan:

I wouldn't think so but I am not a lawyer. We have created several icons
in the past which were based very closely on standard icon sets. A great
book that I have used in the past for helping with the layout of letters
is the following: (watch for the wrap)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0823025225/qid=1029298835/sr=1-1/
ref=sr_1_1/103-3584276-2711059

Good luck!
-JSLucido

-----Original Message-----
From: Burhan Khalid [mailto:burhankhalid at members.evolt.org]
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 6:20 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Icon Extraction

At 06:23 PM 8/13/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Burhan:
>
>I am not too sure you want to do that since there may be copyright
>issues involved with Microsoft. A great solution can be found by using
>these guys from Australia. They have excellent sets:
>
>http://www.glyfx.com/
>
>Good luck!
>-JSLucido


Thanks for the link! I found the icons that I needed in the free
section!

One question though. Say I was to create an icon (such as the B for bold
that is almost universal). Would I then be violating copyright?


--
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the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
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From headlines at lists.evolt.org  Wed Aug 14 00:11:01 2002
From: headlines at lists.evolt.org (Headlines)
Date: Wed Aug 14 00:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Headlines from evolt.org for 13-AUG-02
Message-ID: <200208140510.g7E5A1vI025871@leo.evolt.org>

evolt.org headlines for 13-AUG-02

Hi evolters!

We have some fresh content on evolt.org today, contributed by our
members. Learn something new or review the perspective of someone
else:

Backend: Using XML with PHP without any apache changes (Author: codepo8)
http://www.evolt.org/article/headline/18/35930/index.html

XML is sexy, PHP and XML is a cheap and good way to create and
syndicate your website. Now, when you have your own server, you can
set up all the necessary apache add-ons to explore the PHP-XML
relationship to the full extend. When you own a virtual server at an
ISP, you can't do that. Still, there is a way to use XML with PHP
without doing any changes to the server, the answer is a small but
fine PHP script.




Authors really appreciate feedback from their peers; you can leave a
comment and rate articles by logging into the evolt.org web site.

Happy reading!

evolt.org



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Wed Aug 14 01:11:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Wed Aug 14 01:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ActiveX FTP Object
In-Reply-To: <03c301c24341$ff138600$0200a8c0@client1>
References: <039c01c2431a$da96ecd0$0200a8c0@client1>
 <3D5994BB.4010907@macrovista.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020813230717.01fa10b8@baratta.com>

At 08:23 PM 8/13/2002, Joshua Olson wrote:
> >
> > By design, you cannot perform multiple simultaneous GETs by FTP.  The
> > FTP protocol does not support this behavior.  Multiple concurrent GETS
> > require one connection each.
>
>It's probably my request wasn't necessarily very well stated.  I'm trying to
>download a large number of files.  The utilities I've found go through the
>entire process for every file.  That is: connect, authenticate, change
>directory, then download.  I'm looking for a utility that will simulate the
>following FTP commands:

If you turn off prompting first, you can grab multiple files using the
'mget' command quite easily.

e.g.

prompt
(turns prompting off, it's on by default)

bin
(changes to binary transport, default)
OR
ascii
(changes to ascii transport)

mget file*
(will grab all files that start with "file".)
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Wed Aug 14 01:13:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Wed Aug 14 01:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ActiveX FTP Object
In-Reply-To: <03c301c24341$ff138600$0200a8c0@client1>
References: <039c01c2431a$da96ecd0$0200a8c0@client1>
 <3D5994BB.4010907@macrovista.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020813231023.01fbde10@baratta.com>

At 08:23 PM 8/13/2002, Joshua Olson wrote:

> > Joshua Olson wrote:
> > > Does anybody know of an FTP object that will allow for multiple GETs to
>be
> > > performed in realtime with a single connection?  I've looked at some of
>the
> > > Freeware utilities that get files one at a time, but they incur an
>overhead
> > > when the connection is created.

You might want to try this too....

http://www.serverobjects.com/products.htm#free

AspInet?

This component allows you to remotely GET and PUT files via FTP from ASP.
Note: This is a server-side component and does not read client-side files.
This is for strictly server-side file transfer.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From szh at softhome.net  Wed Aug 14 01:57:01 2002
From: szh at softhome.net (Syed Zeeshan Haider)
Date: Wed Aug 14 01:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Importance of Keywords, Description
Message-ID: <000e01c2435f$f6564c00$44dc3fca@haidersystem>

Hello Experts,
I have more than a hundred web pages of an under-construction web site
on my hard drive. All of them have same keywords and description in
<meta> tags. I was thinking about changing them according to the page
content, which is quite cumbersome for such large number of pages.
Before doing all this, I want to know that:
What is the importance of keywords and description in <meta> tags for
the search engines?
To what extent search engines depend on keywords and description in
<meta> tags while searching?
Thank you,
Syed Zeeshan Haider.
http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/



From magic32 at jps.net  Wed Aug 14 02:17:01 2002
From: magic32 at jps.net (Roger Harness)
Date: Wed Aug 14 02:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] formmail prob...com vs net??
In-Reply-To: <20020814021706.7FCC63A47@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCEEDILGAA.magic32@jps.net>

My mom's isp (www.skyq.com) gives her 'free' 20 megs of webspace. We have a
simple form that users can check some choices/radio buttons/text areas and
submit it. Unfortunately, skyq doesn't allow a cgi-bin, so on 'submission',
the info is sent to matts formmail.pl in my cgi-bin.

In the form itself, i have:

<FORM METHOD=POST ACTION="http://www.rogers_domain.com/cgi-bin/formmail.pl">
<input type=hidden name="recipient" value="my_mom at skyq.com">
<input type=hidden name="subject" value="whatevermomssubjectis">
<input type=hidden name="redirect"
value="http://www.skyq.net/my_mom/menieres_checklist/thank_you.html">

The user IS redirected to the thank_you page, but she can't seem to recieve
any of the form submissions. None.

I know the form works, because i can change the "recipient"
value="my_mom at skyq.com" to *anything* else, and it seems to work fine. even
a hotmail or yahoo account. I did put skyq in the @referers deal in the
formmail, so im pretty sure im ok there.

Now for the wierd part...(or maybe not so wierd...apparently I dont know
much about this part)...anyways, the address is
http://www.skyq.net/my_mom/menieres_checklist/ .

notice the skyq.NET instead of skyq.COM? And again, her email address is
my_mom at skyq.com .

Could that have anything to do with our problem?? It shouldn't, right? But
do some servers (?) not like formmail submitted emails? And for the record,
she *is* able to recieve regular emails to her skyq.com email address just
fine.

as always, tia,

-Roger Harness






From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 02:29:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Mesnay)
Date: Wed Aug 14 02:29:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php email verify weird problem
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEHHDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

Here is a very strange problem....

Following on from the add email to MySQL and checking for a duplicate email
address... I now have this little puzzle.

The form that checks for an existing email will not submit the email if it
doesn't exist?

I have uploaded the form that does not check and it will sunmitt as many of the
same address you you like.

When the form is replaced by the email checker form it will tell you that the
email exists?

However it not submit

H9ow strange is this?  Any ides why this is happening

Tel: +44 (0) 777 55 212 95

**********************************************************************
Information in this email is confidential and may be privileged.
It is intended for the addressee only. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your system.
You should not otherwise copy it, retransmit it or use or disclose its
contents to anyone.
Thank you for your co-operation.
**********************************************************************
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02



From richardgray at onetel.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 02:56:01 2002
From: richardgray at onetel.co.uk (Rich Gray)
Date: Wed Aug 14 02:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php email verify weird problem
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEHHDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKAEEFOCKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>

Andrew
Can you post the code that is causing the problem?
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Mesnay
Sent: 14 August 2002 08:31
To: Thelist at Lists. Evolt. Org
Subject: [thelist] php email verify weird problem


Here is a very strange problem....

Following on from the add email to MySQL and checking for a duplicate email
address... I now have this little puzzle.

The form that checks for an existing email will not submit the email if it
doesn't exist?

I have uploaded the form that does not check and it will sunmitt as many of
the
same address you you like.

When the form is replaced by the email checker form it will tell you that
the
email exists?

However it not submit

H9ow strange is this?  Any ides why this is happening

Tel: +44 (0) 777 55 212 95

**********************************************************************
Information in this email is confidential and may be privileged.
It is intended for the addressee only. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your system.
You should not otherwise copy it, retransmit it or use or disclose its
contents to anyone.
Thank you for your co-operation.
**********************************************************************
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From david at gigawatt.com  Wed Aug 14 03:21:01 2002
From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman)
Date: Wed Aug 14 03:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Justify with NS 4.x
References: <3D59C9D3.4050509@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <002901c2436b$6b82efa0$0100a8c0@snowwhite>

Fran?ois Constantineau <francoisconstantineau at videotron.ca> wrote:
> Hi,
> Checking the following url:
> http://www.shogix.net/lexique-d-k.html
> with NS 4.79, the browser refuses obstinately to justify the text,
> which is styled  with CSS p {text-align: justify;}.

works perfectly for me, on NS 4.5, both in maximized (1024 X 768) and
smaller-sized windows.

btw, nice design, too!

-dave

---
Minimalism is sometimes just *too* much.



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 03:30:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Mesnay)
Date: Wed Aug 14 03:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php email verify weird problem
In-Reply-To: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKAEEFOCKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKEHLDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

silly silly me, having just pasted the two lots of code I noticed the problem, I
did think it was something other than this but is was simply this:

$dbname, was omitted from the following.

mysql_db_query($dbname, "insert into mailinglux values('','$email')");


I still have the problem of not incorporatting the tick boxes for this email
submit, and I have seen one of the obvious senarios for this.  If a visitor
returns to make another purchase they aren't going to subscribe to the same
newsletter but will still have the same email address to receive normal
correspondence order confirmation etc, so the tick box is fairly important!

Any ideas how one should go about this?

Andrew

I am still getting 2 of every post and I have tried all sorts to stop it!!
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 04:10:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Mesnay)
Date: Wed Aug 14 04:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php settings for DB access
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEHNDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

Interestingly I was looking through a couple of folers and came across a folder
that contqined all the settings to connect to the DB, I put an index.html file
in the folder but that didnt work everything still gets displayed??

whats the most secure way to counter this, any ideas

Andrew

$sitename = "htpp://www.name.co.uk"; #Insert your site name
$support = "support at name.co.uk"; #Insert your support's email address
$remove_url = "http://www.name.co.uk/mailing/remove.php3"; #Insert the url of
the remove.php3 script
$dbhost = "localhost"; #Insert your database host
$dbname = "name"; #Insert your database name
$dbuser = "user"; #Insert your database username
$dbpass = "pass"; #Insert your database password


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02



From richardgray at onetel.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 04:17:01 2002
From: richardgray at onetel.co.uk (Rich Gray)
Date: Wed Aug 14 04:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php email verify weird problem
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKEHLDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKAMEGECKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>

Andrew,

FYI mysql_db_query is deprecated now in PHP - you should use
mysql_select_db() and mysql_query()

I did post a suggested solution (see below) for the checkbox issue
yesterday... however this was to another guy called Andrew Maynes - who he?
:)
Did you try that?

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<TR><TD>E-mail Address</TD><TD><input name="email" size="30"></TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Subscribe?</TD><TD><input type="checkbox"
name="subscribe"></TD></TR>

And in the PHP code...

<?

if (isset($_POST['subscribe'])) {
	// Do the database stuff
}
?>
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Mesnay
Sent: 14 August 2002 09:32
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php email verify weird problem


silly silly me, having just pasted the two lots of code I noticed the
problem, I
did think it was something other than this but is was simply this:

$dbname, was omitted from the following.

mysql_db_query($dbname, "insert into mailinglux values('','$email')");


I still have the problem of not incorporatting the tick boxes for this email
submit, and I have seen one of the obvious senarios for this.  If a visitor
returns to make another purchase they aren't going to subscribe to the same
newsletter but will still have the same email address to receive normal
correspondence order confirmation etc, so the tick box is fairly important!

Any ideas how one should go about this?

Andrew

I am still getting 2 of every post and I have tried all sorts to stop it!!
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 04:31:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 04:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php email verify weird problem
In-Reply-To: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKAMEGECKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKEHODHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

cool, so - mysql_db_query($dbname, "insert into mailinglux
values('','$email')");

should be- mysql_select_db($dbname, "insert into mailinglux
values('','$email')");

?

Thanks for the tick bx stuff, I will put the code in and juggle accordingly!
Thank you kindly.

I have been getitng 2 posts for everyones post!  So I unsubscribed and setup
another mail account but still getting two so something isn't right?  I ahve
mailed admin and haven't heard yet

Andrew Maynes

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Rich Gray
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 10:15
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php email verify weird problem


Andrew,

FYI mysql_db_query is deprecated now in PHP - you should use
mysql_select_db() and mysql_query()

I did post a suggested solution (see below) for the checkbox issue
yesterday... however this was to another guy called Andrew Maynes - who he?
:)
Did you try that?

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<TR><TD>E-mail Address</TD><TD><input name="email" size="30"></TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Subscribe?</TD><TD><input type="checkbox"
name="subscribe"></TD></TR>

And in the PHP code...

<?

if (isset($_POST['subscribe'])) {
	// Do the database stuff
}
?>
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Mesnay
Sent: 14 August 2002 09:32
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php email verify weird problem


silly silly me, having just pasted the two lots of code I noticed the
problem, I
did think it was something other than this but is was simply this:

$dbname, was omitted from the following.

mysql_db_query($dbname, "insert into mailinglux values('','$email')");


I still have the problem of not incorporatting the tick boxes for this email
submit, and I have seen one of the obvious senarios for this.  If a visitor
returns to make another purchase they aren't going to subscribe to the same
newsletter but will still have the same email address to receive normal
correspondence order confirmation etc, so the tick box is fairly important!

Any ideas how one should go about this?

Andrew

I am still getting 2 of every post and I have tried all sorts to stop it!!
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02



From robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 04:43:00 2002
From: robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk (Rob Wilson)
Date: Wed Aug 14 04:43:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php email verify weird problem
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKEHODHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <00a501c24376$e4b87150$2c01020a@Beanstalk>

>cool, so - mysql_db_query($dbname, "insert into mailinglux
>values('','$email')");

>should be- mysql_select_db($dbname, "insert into mailinglux
>values('','$email')");

No

mysql_select_db( $dbname );
mysql_query( "insert into mailinglux values( '' , '$email')");

Rob




From jonhall at ozline.net  Wed Aug 14 05:27:01 2002
From: jonhall at ozline.net (Jon Hall)
Date: Wed Aug 14 05:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ActiveX FTP Object
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020813231023.01fbde10@baratta.com>
References: <039c01c2431a$da96ecd0$0200a8c0@client1>
 <3D5994BB.4010907@macrovista.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020813231023.01fbde10@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <19265055199.20020814062552@ozline.net>

The AspInet control is not asynchronous...that's what he needs.
Joshua if you do find a free ansync ftp control let me know...I've
never seen one. There are a few cheap ($50) ones out there, and of
course dart.com and nsoftware.com if you feel like paying through the
nose. :)

--
jon
mailto:jonhall at ozline.net

Wednesday, August 14, 2002, 2:12:04 AM, you wrote:

AB> At 08:23 PM 8/13/2002, Joshua Olson wrote:

>> > Joshua Olson wrote:
>> > > Does anybody know of an FTP object that will allow for multiple GETs to
>>be
>> > > performed in realtime with a single connection?  I've looked at some of
>>the
>> > > Freeware utilities that get files one at a time, but they incur an
>>overhead
>> > > when the connection is created.

AB> You might want to try this too....

AB> http://www.serverobjects.com/products.htm#free

AB> AspInet?

AB> This component allows you to remotely GET and PUT files via FTP from ASP.
AB> Note: This is a server-side component and does not read client-side files.
AB> This is for strictly server-side file transfer.
AB> ---



From mark at cyberfuddle.com  Wed Aug 14 06:38:00 2002
From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher)
Date: Wed Aug 14 06:38:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] [maybe OT] mozilla question
References: <066501c24335$39a3a9b0$3e02a8c0@cusack>
Message-ID: <3D5A432D.2060204@cyberfuddle.com>

Paul Cowan wrote:
> I've finally made the switch from "using mozilla as a backup/test browser"
> to "using mozilla as main browser" (fingers crossed).
>
> One question, the answer which is probably enormously obvious, but it
> has me stumped. How can I make links executed externally (e.g. clicking
> links in Outlook, or entering them in Start -> Run), open in new windows
> (or tabs).
>
> In other words, don't reuse the same window: start a new one. The IE
> equivalent is "Internet Options -> Advanced -> Browsing -> Reuse windows
> for launching shortcuts", but buggered if I can find it mozilla.

If you've a three-button mouse, then use the middle button.

If you've not a three button mouse, then use CTRL-leftclick


--
Mark Gallagher
Desperately attempting - and failing - to stay on topic since 1999
fuddleriffic - http://cyberfuddle.com/
blog - http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/



From carole at pixeltable.com  Wed Aug 14 06:46:01 2002
From: carole at pixeltable.com (carole guevin)
Date: Wed Aug 14 06:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] back web?
In-Reply-To: <a05111b08b97ec0c80e59@[192.168.0.10]>
Message-ID: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJMEIDEEAA.carole@pixeltable.com>

:Any connection with the 'BackWeb' application that pionneered Push
:technology (remember that ? the huge Wired mag cover and all ? ah!)
:along with comcast (i think)... ?

tx to all that replied and for link to ad-ware. the fact is, that I don't
use any *freeware* only bought soft. But definitely one of these has altered
my registry.

.c

...new media culture_magazine + portal + http://netdiver.net
..communication design + http://pixeltable.com





From ben at inchima.com  Wed Aug 14 06:51:01 2002
From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips)
Date: Wed Aug 14 06:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] back web?
In-Reply-To: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJMEIDEEAA.carole@pixeltable.com>
Message-ID: <001201c24388$d199dc50$0300a8c0@BS>

> tx to all that replied and for link to ad-ware. the fact is,
> that I don't use any *freeware* only bought soft. But
> definitely one of these has altered my registry.

spyware can also be installed if you visit a site and agree to install
something like CometCursor or some other dodgy internet explorer
'add-on'.

just keep using ad-aware and scan regularly - in the same way you scan
for virii. you should be fine.

benji.
inchima.com




From carole at pixeltable.com  Wed Aug 14 06:55:01 2002
From: carole at pixeltable.com (carole guevin)
Date: Wed Aug 14 06:55:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] back web?
In-Reply-To: <002901c242ed$b1b9c760$0300a8c0@BS>
Message-ID: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJIEIEEEAA.carole@pixeltable.com>

:sure, run kazaalite instead!
:
:http://www.kazaalite.nl

I tried that url whereas they suggest visiting http://www.kazaalite.com
forum for answers to questions and 4 pop-under appeared instantly.  Is this
my machine (yepp will install ad-aware today) pushing these - or is the site
doing this?

.c

...new media culture_magazine + portal + http://netdiver.net
..communication design + http://pixeltable.com



From ben at inchima.com  Wed Aug 14 07:04:00 2002
From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips)
Date: Wed Aug 14 07:04:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] back web?
In-Reply-To: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJIEIEEEAA.carole@pixeltable.com>
Message-ID: <001501c2438a$963b9430$0300a8c0@BS>

> I tried that url whereas they suggest visiting
> http://www.kazaalite.com forum for answers to > questions and 4
> pop-under appeared instantly.  Is this my machine (yepp will
> install ad-aware today) pushing these - or is the site doing this?

nope, that's kazaalite.com - loads of popups! if you can stand them,
then the site itself is fine.




From wes at pmason.karoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 07:22:01 2002
From: wes at pmason.karoo.co.uk (**1st Vamp**)
Date: Wed Aug 14 07:22:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Importance of Keywords, Description
In-Reply-To: <000e01c2435f$f6564c00$44dc3fca@haidersystem>
References: <000e01c2435f$f6564c00$44dc3fca@haidersystem>
Message-ID: <4169811596.20020814132037@pmason.karoo.co.uk>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: MD5

I don't know about any other search engines, but Google has a policy of only indexing keywords that appear
within the page itself.

- - Vamp

Wednesday, August 14, 2002, 7:56:02 AM, Syed Zeeshan Haider wrote:

> Hello Experts,
> I have more than a hundred web pages of an under-construction web site
> on my hard drive. All of them have same keywords and description in
> <meta> tags. I was thinking about changing them according to the page
> content, which is quite cumbersome for such large number of pages.
> Before doing all this, I want to know that:
> What is the importance of keywords and description in <meta> tags for
> the search engines?
> To what extent search engines depend on keywords and description in
> <meta> tags while searching?
> Thank you,
> Syed Zeeshan Haider.
> http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/

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From joshua at waetech.com  Wed Aug 14 07:26:01 2002
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Wed Aug 14 07:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ActiveX FTP Object
References: <039c01c2431a$da96ecd0$0200a8c0@client1> <3D5994BB.4010907@macrovista.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020813231023.01fbde10@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <044701c2438d$8faf5f40$0200a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Baratta" <Anthony at Baratta.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 2:12 AM


> You might want to try this too....
>
> http://www.serverobjects.com/products.htm#free
>
> AspInetT
>
> This component allows you to remotely GET and PUT files via FTP from ASP.
> Note: This is a server-side component and does not read client-side files.
> This is for strictly server-side file transfer.

Anthony, et al,

That's one of the components I've tried. Unfortunately, a file that takes
perhaps 1/2 second to actually download incurs approximately 1.5 seconds of
overhead as it authenticates to the server.  Obviously that is none too
efficient.  The component I am looking for would be similar to that one,
only I would issue it a series of commands such as:

oFTP.Connect(host, username, password)
oFTP.Download(filename, local_destination)
oFTP.Download(filename, local_destination)
oFTP.Download(filename, local_destination)
oFTP.Download(filename, local_destination)
oFTP.Disconnect()

I found an async FTP component for ASP.NET, but have also found it difficult
to work with.  Web pages are not very well suited, it seems, to asyncronous
development.  The problem I faced was that the main page thread would die
before the async events finished.  Since the page was the glue to fire one
event after another finished, the process never went from start to finish.
How I fixed this was to put the main page thread to sleep or put a spin lock
on it until a semaphore was set indicating the file was done downloading.
The async code I found was at:

http://www.codeproject.com/csharp/FTP.asp

I believe it may be possible to rewrite the Socket interface code so that it
all runs in a single thread.  Any takers?  A *good* server-side FTP client,
capable of being programmatically controlled, would be an invaluable
resource.

Anyways, thanks all!

-joshua



From simon at incutio.com  Wed Aug 14 07:26:28 2002
From: simon at incutio.com (Simon Willison)
Date: Wed Aug 14 07:26:28 2002
Subject: [thelist] Importance of Keywords, Description
In-Reply-To: <000e01c2435f$f6564c00$44dc3fca@haidersystem>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020814131831.01d05970@mail.incutio.com>

At 11:56 14/08/2002 +0500, Syed Zeeshan Haider wrote:
>I have more than a hundred web pages of an under-construction web site
>on my hard drive. All of them have same keywords and description in
><meta> tags. I was thinking about changing them according to the page
>content, which is quite cumbersome for such large number of pages.
>Before doing all this, I want to know that:
>What is the importance of keywords and description in <meta> tags for
>the search engines?
>To what extent search engines depend on keywords and description in
><meta> tags while searching?

IANASEO[0] but as far as I know most search engines ignore these completely
- they have been abused so much in the past (people putting irrelevant
terms in there to increase their rankings and other silly tricks) that the
majority of search engines don't even notice them any more. They definitely
have no effect on Google.

The meta description tag is used by some non-search engine tools. As an
example, I am a Dmoz editor and the Dmoz "add URL" wizard takes a URL and
grabs the meta description (if it exists) as a suggested description for
the page, although I tend to edit these any way.

On the whole though it isn't really worth going overboard with keywords and
descriptions - they aren't nearly as important now as they were a few years
ago (especially with Google taking the lead as the most used search
engine). They're nice to have but definitely not essential.

Regards,

Simon Willison
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~cs1spw/blog/
[0] I Am Not A Search Engine Optimizer







From richardgray at onetel.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 07:27:00 2002
From: richardgray at onetel.co.uk (Rich Gray)
Date: Wed Aug 14 07:27:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php settings for DB access
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEHNDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKAGEHBCKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>

Andrew

You could move the connection info outside the web document tree and include
it in your php scripts using an absolute path...e.g.

Web server root is /home/httpdocs so you put config file in /home/phpconfigs
and your scripts include('/home/phpconfigs/whatever.php');
NB If you have to run PHP with open_basedir and safe_mode  enabled then this
won't work

My 0.02p
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Mesnay
Sent: 14 August 2002 10:12
To: Thelist at Lists. Evolt. Org
Subject: [thelist] php settings for DB access


Interestingly I was looking through a couple of folers and came across a
folder
that contqined all the settings to connect to the DB, I put an index.html
file
in the folder but that didnt work everything still gets displayed??

whats the most secure way to counter this, any ideas

Andrew

$sitename = "htpp://www.name.co.uk"; #Insert your site name
$support = "support at name.co.uk"; #Insert your support's email address
$remove_url = "http://www.name.co.uk/mailing/remove.php3"; #Insert the url
of
the remove.php3 script
$dbhost = "localhost"; #Insert your database host
$dbname = "name"; #Insert your database name
$dbuser = "user"; #Insert your database username
$dbpass = "pass"; #Insert your database password


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From ben at inchima.com  Wed Aug 14 07:33:00 2002
From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips)
Date: Wed Aug 14 07:33:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php settings for DB access
In-Reply-To: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKAGEHBCKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <001601c2438e$b2a092c0$0300a8c0@BS>

> You could move the connection info outside the web document
> tree and include it in your php scripts using an absolute path...e.g.
>
> Web server root is /home/httpdocs so you put config file in
> /home/phpconfigs and your scripts
> include('/home/phpconfigs/whatever.php');
> NB If you have to run PHP with open_basedir and safe_mode
> enabled then this won't work

if you can't put anything outside the web document tree and you are
using apache, then simply name the include file .whatever.php. apache
will never send anything beginning with a . (full stop/period) afaik, so
it can't be downloaded, but can be included.

benji
inchima.com




From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 07:34:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 07:34:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php settings for DB access
In-Reply-To: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKAGEHBCKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEIJDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

Thank you

Andrew



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Rich Gray
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 01:26
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php settings for DB access


Andrew

You could move the connection info outside the web document tree and include
it in your php scripts using an absolute path...e.g.

Web server root is /home/httpdocs so you put config file in /home/phpconfigs
and your scripts include('/home/phpconfigs/whatever.php');
NB If you have to run PHP with open_basedir and safe_mode  enabled then this
won't work

My 0.02p
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Mesnay
Sent: 14 August 2002 10:12
To: Thelist at Lists. Evolt. Org
Subject: [thelist] php settings for DB access

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02



From nan at heritageconcord.org  Wed Aug 14 08:01:00 2002
From: nan at heritageconcord.org (Nan Smith)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:01:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Security Issue
Message-ID: <BDEGINKLKKDNIMKNAMKNKEHDCAAA.nan@heritageconcord.org>

Hi,
A guy in my neighborhood has put together a directory of everyone in the
neighborhood, names, addresses, phones, kids, email addresses, etc, etc.
Of course, he did not hear from everyone, and there will be constant
changes as people move in and out, so  the directory he gave to all of us
already needed to be updated.
I offered to upload the db and put all the information on one of my
websites, and make it so neighbors can go in and see the info and change
their own profiles. This way we save the printing and mailing costs, and
it is always up to date, as long as people update it when it changes. Of
course I would protect the pages, either with htaccess files or coding in
a username and password to view the pages. We actually went ahead and
registered a domain name for this, so it can be its own website, or can
point to a folder in one of my existing sites. We would not add any
metatags or do anything to be found by search engines. But there are
people who are worried about putting their info on the web. I think this
issue has been discussed on the list, I think we were talking about
putting photos of kids out there. Does putting this on the web put people
at risk? I assume someone could hack into our information, but who would
even know it was there with all of the thousands of websites out there?
And if it is safe enough (we would leave out the kids names) would it be
better to protect it with htaccess files or coding in an if statement:
if (($username=="name") and $password=="password")) { show stuff.
These pages would not be found by search engines would they?
TIA
Nan




From richard.b at gritechnologies.com  Wed Aug 14 08:01:10 2002
From: richard.b at gritechnologies.com (Richard Bennett)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:01:10 2002
Subject: [thelist] access pop3 - perl script
Message-ID: <098001c2438e$fc84bdd0$c703c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

Hi,
Has anyone come across a Perl script that will access a pop3 mailbox,
extract the attachments, and save them on the server for downloading, like
an "attachments archive"?

(Apache/Linux of course.)

Thanks,
Richard



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 08:16:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEIODHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

Hi Rich el al

Something is very wrong here!  I have a cart running with a problem, some extra
code is put in to show how many items have been ordered and the total cost -

Your order contains 2 items costing a total of ?1748.00

Problem is that as soon as the cart adds a second item the first items subtotal
is being doubled any ideas?? This has only just stated to happen which doesn't
make sense (to me) or it has always happened and I haven't noticed it for the
last 2 months!!

Andrew
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From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Wed Aug 14 08:21:01 2002
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEIODHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002601c24395$70c2d500$8102a8c0@000347D72515>

[snip]
Something is very wrong here!  I have a cart running with a problem, some
extra
code is put in to show how many items have been ordered and the total cost -

Your order contains 2 items costing a total of ?1748.00

Problem is that as soon as the cart adds a second item the first items
subtotal
is being doubled any ideas??
[/snip]

Can you show us the code? I can only guess that you may have an array
containing the items ordered and you are inadvertently placing the value of
the first item twice to the array.

Jay




From anne at beerintheevening.com  Wed Aug 14 08:25:01 2002
From: anne at beerintheevening.com (Anne Thorniley)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] access pop3 - perl script
In-Reply-To: <098001c2438e$fc84bdd0$c703c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj>; from richard.b@gritechnologies.com on Wed, Aug 14, 2002 at 02:34:49PM +0200
References: <098001c2438e$fc84bdd0$c703c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <20020814142340.B18840@riffraff.plig.net>

Hi Richard,

I don't know of any pre-written scripts that you can just download
and configure, but I've just written a custom one that does pretty
much exactly what you describe for a project at work, and if you
know a bit of Perl you should have no problem writing your own.

Basically, you'll need[1] to use Mail::POP3Client and MIME::Parser at
a minimum, I'm also using MIME::Head, and File::Copy to make life
easier. Looking at the docs for these modules should give you
enough examples to get one up and running.

If you need more detailed help let me know.

Anne

[1] As with any Perl script, there's bound to be loads of ways to
do it, but I'd suggest these modules.

On Wed, Aug 14, 2002 at 02:34:49PM +0200, Richard Bennett wrote:
> Hi,
> Has anyone come across a Perl script that will access a pop3 mailbox,
> extract the attachments, and save them on the server for downloading, like
> an "attachments archive"?
>
> (Apache/Linux of course.)
>
> Thanks,
> Richard
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

--
Now you've reached the point where she sees through you -
Your low esteem and lack of self-control


From richardgray at onetel.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 08:28:00 2002
From: richardgray at onetel.co.uk (Rich Gray)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:28:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Security Issue
In-Reply-To: <BDEGINKLKKDNIMKNAMKNKEHDCAAA.nan@heritageconcord.org>
Message-ID: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKAAEHGCKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>

Nan

You could put a robots.txt file in the root of your site with

User-agent: *
Disallow: /

This will stop compliant spiders from indexing your site.

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Nan Smith
Sent: 14 August 2002 11:43
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Security Issue


Hi,
A guy in my neighborhood has put together a directory of everyone in the
neighborhood, names, addresses, phones, kids, email addresses, etc, etc.
Of course, he did not hear from everyone, and there will be constant
changes as people move in and out, so  the directory he gave to all of us
already needed to be updated.
I offered to upload the db and put all the information on one of my
websites, and make it so neighbors can go in and see the info and change
their own profiles. This way we save the printing and mailing costs, and
it is always up to date, as long as people update it when it changes. Of
course I would protect the pages, either with htaccess files or coding in
a username and password to view the pages. We actually went ahead and
registered a domain name for this, so it can be its own website, or can
point to a folder in one of my existing sites. We would not add any
metatags or do anything to be found by search engines. But there are
people who are worried about putting their info on the web. I think this
issue has been discussed on the list, I think we were talking about
putting photos of kids out there. Does putting this on the web put people
at risk? I assume someone could hack into our information, but who would
even know it was there with all of the thousands of websites out there?
And if it is safe enough (we would leave out the kids names) would it be
better to protect it with htaccess files or coding in an if statement:
if (($username=="name") and $password=="password")) { show stuff.
These pages would not be found by search engines would they?
TIA
Nan


--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From richardgray at onetel.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 08:28:14 2002
From: richardgray at onetel.co.uk (Rich Gray)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:28:14 2002
Subject: [thelist] access pop3 - perl script
In-Reply-To: <098001c2438e$fc84bdd0$c703c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKACEHGCKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>

Hi Richard
I'm sure you'll find some examples at http://hotscripts.com
HTH
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Richard Bennett
Sent: 14 August 2002 13:35
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] access pop3 - perl script


Hi,
Has anyone come across a Perl script that will access a pop3 mailbox,
extract the attachments, and save them on the server for downloading, like
an "attachments archive"?

(Apache/Linux of course.)

Thanks,
Richard

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 08:30:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <002601c24395$70c2d500$8102a8c0@000347D72515>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEIPDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

not a 100% which code it is! Without it all?  Here is the first bit, I thought
it maybe something else!  Not sure whether it help but do you want to seee the
site?



/* Lets get the total of products and the total cost */
function status($cart) {
	if($cart) {
		foreach ($cart as $item => $value) {
			$number += $cart[$item][qty];
			$total += $total + ($cart[$item][qty] * $cart[$item][unit_price]);
		}
		$total = correct($total);
		$return = "Your order contains <strong>".$number." </strong>";
        $return .= "items costing a total of
<strong>&pound;".$total."</strong>";
	}

	return($return);
}


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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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From evoltlist at rogers.com  Wed Aug 14 08:33:01 2002
From: evoltlist at rogers.com (Ingrid Z)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL 2000 auto create ID's
Message-ID: <004401c24397$7e25e2d0$33c52a18@userf1xcwzruul>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Hello again evolters,

I need your assistance again !

I promise to give some tips, after this project is over.

I want SQL 2000 to automatically create unique ID's and passwords for users to have access to a website.
They go to one site, sign up, that then allows them access to a different site, with this new ID and password.
(currently, we are creating the ID's and passwords manually and email notifications are sent out using CDONTS).

Each unique ID must start with 'AB'.
Then I want to add after the 'AB' seven random alpha and/or numeric characters.

The password can be anything, six characters.

Any suggestions for resources, sample scripts? Or even someone in Toronto who wants to earn some extra money?

Any ideas appreciated !!

Thanks,
Ingrid



--




From robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 08:38:00 2002
From: robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk (Rob Wilson)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:38:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEIPDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <012701c24397$b2e85b10$2c01020a@Beanstalk>

>/* Lets get the total of products and the total cost */
>function status($cart) {
>if($cart) {
>foreach ($cart as $item => $value) {
>$number += $cart[$item][qty];
>$total += $total + ($cart[$item][qty] * $cart[$item][unit_price]);

This without the shortcuts comes out at

$total = $total + $total + ( $cart[$item][qty] * $cart[$item][unit_price]);

Since x += y is equivalent to x = x + y

This is, I would suggest, where you problem lies.

Rob



From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Wed Aug 14 08:39:01 2002
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:39:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEIPDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002901c24397$ed43a030$8102a8c0@000347D72515>

[snip]
/* Lets get the total of products and the total cost */
function status($cart) {
	if($cart) {
		foreach ($cart as $item => $value) {
			$number += $cart[$item][qty];
			$total += $total + ($cart[$item][qty] * $cart[$item][unit_price]);
		}
		$total = correct($total);
		$return = "Your order contains <strong>".$number." </strong>";
        $return .= "items costing a total of
<strong>&pound;".$total."</strong>";
	}

	return($return);
}
[/snip]

At first blush this appears to be ok, so is the quantity for the first item
'2' or '1'? Insert a print statement to print out your key/value pairs and
see what is going on there first. If the quantity of the first item is '1'
then the problem is within this code, if it is not '1' then we'll have to
look beyond here.

HTH!

Jay




From richardgray at onetel.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 08:43:01 2002
From: richardgray at onetel.co.uk (Rich Gray)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEIPDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKACEHJCKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>

Adding to your total s/b $total += ($cart[$item][qty] *
$cart[$item][unit_price]);

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: 14 August 2002 14:32
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] PHP Doubling up


not a 100% which code it is! Without it all?  Here is the first bit, I
thought
it maybe something else!  Not sure whether it help but do you want to seee
the
site?



/* Lets get the total of products and the total cost */
function status($cart) {
	if($cart) {
		foreach ($cart as $item => $value) {
			$number += $cart[$item][qty];
			$total += $total + ($cart[$item][qty] * $cart[$item][unit_price]);
		}
		$total = correct($total);
		$return = "Your order contains <strong>".$number." </strong>";
        $return .= "items costing a total of
<strong>&pound;".$total."</strong>";
	}

	return($return);
}


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From steve.cook at evitbe.com  Wed Aug 14 08:45:01 2002
From: steve.cook at evitbe.com (Steve Cook)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL 2000 auto create ID's
Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D523078B5@SBS>

Personally I always do this bit in the ASP. Here's a nice general function
you can use - you feed it a string of 0's, 1's and 2's as follows:

	0 = vowel
	1 = consonant
	2 = number

You could mocify it easily to pick randomly any alphanumeric character by
simply putting all the characters you want available in a single string and
taking out the functionality for the other types.

password = "AB" & funCreatePass "111102"

The example above would create a password beginning with AB and consisting
of 4 consonants followed by a vowel and a number.

Oh - and all the variable names and stuff are in Swedish - sorry! ;-)



function funCreatePass(format)

	konsonant	=	"bcdfghjklmnprstv"
	vokal		=	"aeiouy"
	nummer	=	"0123456789"

	randomize

	for j= 1 to Len(format)
		bokstav = mid(format, j, 1)
		if bokstav = 1 then ' If the character is a 1 then pick a
consonant
			password=password &
mid(konsonant,cInt(rnd*(len(konsonant)-1)+1),1)
		elseif bokstav = 2 then ' If the character is a 2 then pick
a number
			password=password &
mid(nummer,cInt(rnd*(len(nummer)-1)+1 ),1)
		else ' If the character is anything else then pick a vowel
			password=password &
mid(vokal,cInt(rnd*(len(vokal)-1)+1 ),1)
		end if
	next
	funCreatePass = password
end function 'funCreatePass



.steve


-------------------------------------
 Cookstour - http://www.cookstour.org
-------------------------------------

<SNIP>
>
> Each unique ID must start with 'AB'.
> Then I want to add after the 'AB' seven random alpha and/or
> numeric characters.
>
> The password can be anything, six characters.



From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Wed Aug 14 08:50:01 2002
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL 2000 auto create ID's
In-Reply-To: <004401c24397$7e25e2d0$33c52a18@userf1xcwzruul>
Message-ID: <002e01c24399$87b9c030$8102a8c0@000347D72515>

[snip]
I want SQL 2000 to automatically create unique ID's and passwords for users
to have access to a website.
They go to one site, sign up, that then allows them access to a different
site, with this new ID and password.
(currently, we are creating the ID's and passwords manually and email
notifications are sent out using CDONTS).

Each unique ID must start with 'AB'.
Then I want to add after the 'AB' seven random alpha and/or numeric
characters.

The password can be anything, six characters.

Any suggestions for resources, sample scripts? Or even someone in Toronto
who wants to earn some extra money?
[/snip]

SQL 2k cannot do this well, but there is another option which I have used
over time. Your scripting language can do the creation for you, here is an
example in pseudo-code

//--variables received from registration form-->
$userName
$anotherVariableA
$anotherVariableB
// create user ID
$prefix == "AB"
$initials == "process to extract initials from $userName"
$randomNumber == "math to get a 5 digit wide random number"

$userID = $prefix concatenate $randomNumber concatenate $initials
so therefore $userID would be something like AB020359JB

Do something similar with the password.

HTH!

Jay




From john at evolt.org.uk  Wed Aug 14 08:51:01 2002
From: john at evolt.org.uk (John Handelaar)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php settings for DB access
In-Reply-To: <001601c2438e$b2a092c0$0300a8c0@BS>
Message-ID: <BEEMIMHGMNIOGNMGICNAIEGICBAA.john@evolt.org.uk>

% -----Original Message-----
% From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
% [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Ben Phillips
% Sent: 14 August 2002 13:33
% To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
% Subject: RE: [thelist] php settings for DB access
%
% > You could move the connection info outside the web document
% > tree and include it in your php scripts using an absolute path...e.g.
% >
% > Web server root is /home/httpdocs so you put config file in
% > /home/phpconfigs and your scripts
% > include('/home/phpconfigs/whatever.php');
% > NB If you have to run PHP with open_basedir and safe_mode
% > enabled then this won't work
%
% if you can't put anything outside the web document tree and you are
% using apache, then simply name the include file .whatever.php. apache
% will never send anything beginning with a . (full stop/period) afaik, so
% it can't be downloaded, but can be included.

That will work, but if the files are named *.php already, then
the real problem is that that directory isn't executing PHP
files correctly.

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 8933 1494       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------


From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 08:51:39 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:51:39 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKACEHJCKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEJCDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

Rich are you just saying take out the second $total ?




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From john at evolt.org.uk  Wed Aug 14 08:51:50 2002
From: john at evolt.org.uk (John Handelaar)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:51:50 2002
Subject: [thelist] formmail prob...com vs net??
In-Reply-To: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCEEDILGAA.magic32@jps.net>
Message-ID: <BEEMIMHGMNIOGNMGICNAGEGICBAA.john@evolt.org.uk>

% -----Original Message-----
% From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
% [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Roger Harness
% Sent: 14 August 2002 08:18
% To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
% Subject: [thelist] formmail prob...com vs net??
%
% My mom's isp (www.skyq.com) gives her 'free' 20 megs of webspace.
% We have a
% simple form that users can check some choices/radio buttons/text areas and
% submit it. Unfortunately, skyq doesn't allow a cgi-bin, so on
% 'submission',
% the info is sent to matts formmail.pl in my cgi-bin.

BZZZT.  There's the problem.

Matt's formmail.pl, in its original forms, allows anyone at
all to send any message at all to any address at all.  ISPs
who allow its use on their web servers, therefore, often find
themselves on the receiving end of a blackhole listing.

What you're describing is one of the things Matt's formmail
is notorious for allowing 'illegally'.

The London Perlmongers have an ongoing project to replace
everything in Matt's Script Archive with secure drop-in
replacements.  They live at http://london.pm.org

As for a solution to your ma's problem, I'm not sure I
can help, other than to recommend calling Skyq and asking
whether they have any shared scripts available.


------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 8933 1494       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------



From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Wed Aug 14 08:58:01 2002
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEJCDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <003301c2439a$ace0bf70$8102a8c0@000347D72515>

[snip]
Rich are you just saying take out the second $total ?
[/snip]

I think he is saying change this;

$total += $total + ($cart[$item][qty] * $cart[$item][unit_price]);

to this

$total += ($cart[$item][qty] * $cart[$item][unit_price]);

Yep, I should have looked more closely, but this appears it could be the
problem.

Jay




From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 08:58:16 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 08:58:16 2002
Subject: [thelist] php settings for DB access
In-Reply-To: <BEEMIMHGMNIOGNMGICNAIEGICBAA.john@evolt.org.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKEJDDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

There must be something with the refresh!  The index.html has kicked in now so
none of the files residing within that directory are showing now.

if search engines pick up these files then there is a potential security scare
for alot of sites out there.

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of John Handelaar
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 02:50
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php settings for DB access


% -----Original Message-----
% From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
% [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Ben Phillips
% Sent: 14 August 2002 13:33
% To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
% Subject: RE: [thelist] php settings for DB access
%
% > You could move the connection info outside the web document
% > tree and include it in your php scripts using an absolute path...e.g.
% >
% > Web server root is /home/httpdocs so you put config file in
% > /home/phpconfigs and your scripts
% > include('/home/phpconfigs/whatever.php');
% > NB If you have to run PHP with open_basedir and safe_mode
% > enabled then this won't work
%
% if you can't put anything outside the web document tree and you are
% using apache, then simply name the include file .whatever.php. apache
% will never send anything beginning with a . (full stop/period) afaik, so
% it can't be downloaded, but can be included.

That will work, but if the files are named *.php already, then
the real problem is that that directory isn't executing PHP
files correctly.

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 8933 1494       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------
--
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http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

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From evoltlist at rogers.com  Wed Aug 14 09:02:08 2002
From: evoltlist at rogers.com (Ingrid Z)
Date: Wed Aug 14 09:02:08 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL 2000 auto create ID's
References: <002e01c24399$87b9c030$8102a8c0@000347D72515>
Message-ID: <008d01c2439b$8d575d20$33c52a18@userf1xcwzruul>

This list is such an awesome resource.
I was thinking days of struggling, (which may still happen anyway), but you
are getting me on the right track.
I think asp is definitely the way to go.
I really appreciate all your help and ideas, always !!

Ingrid

> SQL 2k cannot do this well, but there is another option which I have used
> over time. Your scripting language can do the creation for you, here is an
> example in pseudo-code
>
> //--variables received from registration form-->
> $userName
> $anotherVariableA
> $anotherVariableB
> // create user ID
> $prefix == "AB"
> $initials == "process to extract initials from $userName"
> $randomNumber == "math to get a 5 digit wide random number"
>
> $userID = $prefix concatenate $randomNumber concatenate $initials
> so therefore $userID would be something like AB020359JB
>
> Do something similar with the password.
>
> HTH!
>
> Jay






From Ron.Luther at hp.com  Wed Aug 14 09:04:01 2002
From: Ron.Luther at hp.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Wed Aug 14 09:04:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A0603CDD7C4@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>

Hi Andrew,

[I'm not Rich ... but I might have played him on tv.]

Yeah - that's what he's saying.

Rob's post explains that the "+=" operator appends the value from the
right rather than assigns it.

So,

"total = total + new_value"

would be okay or

"total += new_value "

would be okay.

But the "total += total + new_value" is actually equivalent to

"total = total + total + new_value"

which is where the "doubling up" comes in and is probably not what you want.


HTH,


RonL.

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Maynes [mailto:andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk]

Rich are you just saying take out the second $total ?



From richardgray at onetel.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 09:08:02 2002
From: richardgray at onetel.co.uk (Rich Gray)
Date: Wed Aug 14 09:08:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEJCDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKAOEHKCKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>

Yes - remove the '$total +' on the RHS of the += sign and you should be OK
Cheers
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: 14 August 2002 14:53
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] PHP Doubling up


Rich are you just saying take out the second $total ?




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From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 09:10:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 09:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <003301c2439a$ace0bf70$8102a8c0@000347D72515>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEJFDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

nope :( still doubling the first items sub total as soon as another item is
added to the cart.

as long as there is only one item the quantities can be changed as many times,
it is as soon as another item is added.


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Jay Blanchard
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 02:59
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] PHP Doubling up


[snip]
Rich are you just saying take out the second $total ?
[/snip]

I think he is saying change this;

$total += $total + ($cart[$item][qty] * $cart[$item][unit_price]);

to this

$total += ($cart[$item][qty] * $cart[$item][unit_price]);

Yep, I should have looked more closely, but this appears it could be the
problem.

Jay


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From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Wed Aug 14 09:16:01 2002
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Wed Aug 14 09:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEJFDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <003701c2439d$1d5b89e0$8102a8c0@000347D72515>

[snip]
nope :( still doubling the first items sub total as soon as another item is
added to the cart.
[/snip]

I think it's time to print out those key/value pairs ..

Jay



From robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 09:20:00 2002
From: robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk (Rob Wilson)
Date: Wed Aug 14 09:20:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEJFDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <016b01c2439d$90b23600$2c01020a@Beanstalk>

If that's happened once (+= confused with = ) it's possible it's happened
again .... it would be worth checking the rest of the code to make sure that
this hasn't happened.

Removing the 2nd $total should have resolved it there but you might have the
same / similar errors elsewhere.  Sorry if my first reply was a little light
on explanation :o]  I was furiously trying to fix what I thought was a table
error but which turned out to be a missing CSS style.

/me slaps designers

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Maynes
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 3:11 PM
Subject: RE: [thelist] PHP Doubling up


nope :( still doubling the first items sub total as soon as another item is
added to the cart.

as long as there is only one item the quantities can be changed as many
times,
it is as soon as another item is added.





From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 09:20:12 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 09:20:12 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKAOEHKCKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEJFDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

ok removed it to leave this and no joy, going to sound thick now but how do I
php Insert a print statement to print out your key/value pairs?



/* Lets get the total of products and the total cost */

function status($cart) {
	if($cart) {
		foreach ($cart as $item => $value) {

		$number += $cart[$item][qty];

		$total += ($cart[$item][qty] * $cart[$item][unit_price]);

		}

		$total = correct($total);

		$return = "Your order contains <strong>".$number." </strong>";

        $return .= "items costing a total of
<strong>&pound;".$total."</strong>";

	}
	return($return);
}


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From Ron.Luther at hp.com  Wed Aug 14 09:22:00 2002
From: Ron.Luther at hp.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Wed Aug 14 09:22:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A0602F4BAA6@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>

And to look for multiple calls to the function.

And to look for a potentially similar problem in the "decrement" function -
when a customer removes an item from their cart.

And to look for 'additional' total functions.


HTH,

RonL.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Blanchard [mailto:jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com]

I think it's time to print out those key/value pairs ..


From Ron.Luther at hp.com  Wed Aug 14 09:24:14 2002
From: Ron.Luther at hp.com (Luther, Ron)
Date: Wed Aug 14 09:24:14 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
Message-ID: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A0603CDD7C6@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>

Hi Andrew,

I'm guessing this is where you do your 'currency' rounding, but
is it possible this "correct($total)" function has another "+=" in it?

RonL.

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Maynes [mailto:andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk]

		$total = correct($total);



From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Wed Aug 14 09:25:02 2002
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Wed Aug 14 09:25:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEJFDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <003d01c2439e$78f96820$8102a8c0@000347D72515>

[snip]
ok removed it to leave this and no joy, going to sound thick now but how do
I
php Insert a print statement to print out your key/value pairs?
[/snippish]


/* Lets get the total of products and the total cost */

function status($cart) {
	if($cart) {
		foreach ($cart as $item => $value) {

		$number += $cart[$item][qty];

		$total += ($cart[$item][qty] * $cart[$item][unit_price]);
print($number . ", " . $total . "<br>\n"); // <----- HERE!
		}

		$total = correct($total);

		$return = "Your order contains <strong>".$number." </strong>";

        $return .= "items costing a total of
<strong>&pound;".$total."</strong>";

	}
	return($return);
}


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From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 09:32:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 09:32:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <016b01c2439d$90b23600$2c01020a@Beanstalk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEJHDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

The cart works ok except this little display bit of code and I didn't do it!

If I take this code out and the  <?=status($cart);?> the cart works and I dont
get the wrong -

Your order contains 2 items costing a total of ?665.00

=8(

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Rob Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 03:19
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] PHP Doubling up


If that's happened once (+= confused with = ) it's possible it's happened
again .... it would be worth checking the rest of the code to make sure that
this hasn't happened.

Removing the 2nd $total should have resolved it there but you might have the
same / similar errors elsewhere.  Sorry if my first reply was a little light
on explanation :o]  I was furiously trying to fix what I thought was a table
error but which turned out to be a missing CSS style.

/me slaps designers

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Maynes
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 3:11 PM
Subject: RE: [thelist] PHP Doubling up


nope :( still doubling the first items sub total as soon as another item is
added to the cart.

as long as there is only one item the quantities can be changed as many
times,
it is as soon as another item is added.



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From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 09:34:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 09:34:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <8958135993102D479F1CA2351F370A0602F4BAA6@cceexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEJIDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

basically the whole cart works except this code, this code was an addon just to
display at the top of each page the total items and total amount

Your order contains 1 items costing a total of ?465.00

Thats why I thought showing this code would be the problem, although it must be
:(

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Luther, Ron
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 03:21
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] PHP Doubling up


And to look for multiple calls to the function.

And to look for a potentially similar problem in the "decrement" function -
when a customer removes an item from their cart.

And to look for 'additional' total functions.


HTH,

RonL.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Blanchard [mailto:jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com]

I think it's time to print out those key/value pairs ..
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From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org  Wed Aug 14 09:45:01 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan)
Date: Wed Aug 14 09:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mac Site Check [ members.evolt.org/burhankhalid ]
Message-ID: <200208140727.48392.burhankhalid@members.evolt.org>

Hello All :

I was working on a new layout for my website this week, and was wondering any
of you fine folks can have a look at it on a Mac. I have viewed it on both
Linux (Moz 1.1/Konqueror 3.0.x) and Windows (IE, Moz 1.1b) -- all at
1024x768.

I *sigh* have no access to a Mac, so I am looking for people who can help me
out on that front. Specifically, I am wondering if there are any display
issues with the text (also please try the expand collapse on the menu and the
2/3 column toggle at the top of the page).

A few point that I am aware of :

NN4.x -- Don't get me started
Konqueror - bullets display as *
No space between the You Are Here : and the bottom content.

Let me know if anything else you guys can see.
URL is in my signature [ http://members.evolt.org/burhankhalid ]

Thanks

<tip type="Platforms" author="Burhan">
  Curious about how something will look on different platforms? Got a few
hours to burn? Try your local Kinkos -- where you will find Mac/IBM stations
with a variety of screens. Plus they are open 24hrs. If you are quick, they
won't charge you for usage. Also great if you are stuck in a remote location
where your ISP doesn't have a local access number.
</tip>
--
*---------------*
| Burhan Khalid |
*---------------*---------------------------*
| Email : burhankhalid[at]members.evolt.org |
| Web   : members.evolt.org/burhankhalid    |
| ICQ   : 6016166                           |
| AIM   : digitz0819                        |
| MSN   : burhankh[at]hotmail.com           |
| Yahoo : burhan_khalid                     |
*-------------------------------------------*
Never go to a doctor whose office plants have died.
		-- Erma Bombeck



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 09:53:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 09:53:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKAOEHKCKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEJJDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

sorry everyone this did work only I was looking at two different sites when
testing!!  upload file to one site and check a different one!  I need a
holiday... what with getting two posts for each post and two different sites my
head is spinning.

Whats the best way to run scripts without having to upload them to a server, ie
working in a local environment?

:)


Yes - remove the '$total +' on the RHS of the += sign and you should be OK
Cheers
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: 14 August 2002 14:53
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] PHP Doubling up


Rich are you just saying take out the second $total ?




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From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 09:55:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 09:55:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Insert Print Statement
In-Reply-To: <003d01c2439e$78f96820$8102a8c0@000347D72515>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEJJDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

This is really verc useful thank you

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Jay Blanchard
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 03:26
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] PHP Doubling up


[snip]
ok removed it to leave this and no joy, going to sound thick now but how do
I
php Insert a print statement to print out your key/value pairs?
[/snippish]


/* Lets get the total of products and the total cost */

function status($cart) {
	if($cart) {
		foreach ($cart as $item => $value) {

		$number += $cart[$item][qty];

		$total += ($cart[$item][qty] * $cart[$item][unit_price]);
print($number . ", " . $total . "<br>\n"); // <----- HERE!
		}

		$total = correct($total);

		$return = "Your order contains <strong>".$number." </strong>";

        $return .= "items costing a total of
<strong>&pound;".$total."</strong>";

	}
	return($return);
}



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From fconstantineau at netscape.net  Wed Aug 14 09:57:01 2002
From: fconstantineau at netscape.net (François Constantineau)
Date: Wed Aug 14 09:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Justify with NS 4.x
Message-ID: <3EE2D4DD.61569A03.31DDD80A@netscape.net>

"Duncan O'Neill" <dbaxo at ihug.co.nz> wrote:

>Fran?ois Constantineau wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Checking the following url:
>> http://www.shogix.net/lexique-d-k.html
>> with NS 4.79, the browser refuses obstinately to justify the text, which
>> is styled  with CSS p {text-align: justify;}.
>> But I have three other pages made exactly like this
><snip>
>> When I  reduce the window,  NS 4 now justifies the text!
>> The test was made on 1024-768 screen and everything is fine with other
>> browser.
>> Did I miss anything?
>
>Not as far as I can tell. It works fine for me
>PC/ NN4.7. Text is justified, and displayed.

Very strange, this browser has not finished to surprise me. I resolved the problem by setting a margin-right: 10px to my main div and now the text is justified.

Thanks,


--
Fran?ois Constantineau



__________________________________________________________________
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From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Wed Aug 14 09:58:01 2002
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Wed Aug 14 09:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEJJDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <003f01c243a2$fde19ea0$8102a8c0@000347D72515>

[snip]
Whats the best way to run scripts without having to upload them to a server,
ie
working in a local environment?
[/snip]

Zend Studio has a built in debugger environment, and will run and show
output. http://www.zend.com

HTH

Jay

***********************************************************
* Texas PHP Developers Conf  Spring 2003                  *
* T Bar M Resort & Conference Center                      *
* New Braunfels, Texas                                    *
* San Antonio Area PHP Developers Group                   *
* Interested? Contact jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com *
***********************************************************




From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org  Wed Aug 14 09:58:18 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan)
Date: Wed Aug 14 09:58:18 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
Message-ID: <200208140741.07848.burhankhalid@members.evolt.org>

Hello :

Recently I was thinking -- wouldn't it be nice to have a history display on
the page that displays hierarchy? Basically, a dynamically updating tree,
that tracks your path thru the site.

Here is what I'm thinking :

On Load, Tree is = [ Home ] (or Index, or whatever)
Say the user navigates to a page that is under the section thoughts.

Now, the tree would say =
[ Home ]
  [ Thoughts ]
    ..U R here...

Then, if the user were to go to another parent's child, it would display :
[ Home ]
  [ Thoughts ]
  [ Parent ]
    ..U R here...

I have the logic figured out in my head. However, my problem is how would I
store the relative information? In a database? How would I link each link to
its parent? Has anyone ever done this? Any thoughts? At first I thought that
this is sorta like the breadcrumb approach. However, most users are
accustomed to a tree-like structure. So, I was thinking of creating a history
tree that updates as a user travels through a site would be a neat idea.

Input is always appreciated.
--
*---------------*
| Burhan Khalid |
*---------------*---------------------------*
| Email : burhankhalid[at]members.evolt.org |
| Web   : members.evolt.org/burhankhalid    |
| ICQ   : 6016166                           |
| AIM   : digitz0819                        |
| MSN   : burhankh[at]hotmail.com           |
| Yahoo : burhan_khalid                     |
*-------------------------------------------*
Never go to a doctor whose office plants have died.
		-- Erma Bombeck



From robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 10:07:00 2002
From: robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk (Rob Wilson)
Date: Wed Aug 14 10:07:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP Doubling up
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCGEJJDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <01ed01c243a4$351325a0$2c01020a@Beanstalk>

Or depending whether you feel up to doing it you could install a
webserver/php/mysql locally .... depends how confortable you'd feel doing
it.

Rob
.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 10:07:15 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 10:07:15 2002
Subject: [thelist] Zend was PHP Doubling up 
In-Reply-To: <003f01c243a2$fde19ea0$8102a8c0@000347D72515>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEJLDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

looks briliant, is this what most php developers use?  Is there a free version
:)

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Jay Blanchard
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 03:58
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] PHP Doubling up


[snip]
Whats the best way to run scripts without having to upload them to a server,
ie
working in a local environment?
[/snip]

Zend Studio has a built in debugger environment, and will run and show
output. http://www.zend.com

HTH

Jay

***********************************************************
* Texas PHP Developers Conf  Spring 2003                  *
* T Bar M Resort & Conference Center                      *
* New Braunfels, Texas                                    *
* San Antonio Area PHP Developers Group                   *
* Interested? Contact jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com *
***********************************************************


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From list01 at theparagon.org  Wed Aug 14 10:11:01 2002
From: list01 at theparagon.org ({ schaapy })
Date: Wed Aug 14 10:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
In-Reply-To: <200208140741.07848.burhankhalid@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <B97FEB01.A34%list01@theparagon.org>

Response below
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hello :
>
> Recently I was thinking -- wouldn't it be nice to have a history display on
> the page that displays hierarchy? Basically, a dynamically updating tree,
> that tracks your path thru the site.
>
> Here is what I'm thinking :
>
> On Load, Tree is = [ Home ] (or Index, or whatever)
> Say the user navigates to a page that is under the section thoughts.
>
> Now, the tree would say =
> [ Home ]
> [ Thoughts ]
> ..U R here...
>
> Then, if the user were to go to another parent's child, it would display :
> [ Home ]
> [ Thoughts ]
> [ Parent ]
> ..U R here...
>
> I have the logic figured out in my head. However, my problem is how would I
> store the relative information? In a database? How would I link each link to
> its parent? Has anyone ever done this? Any thoughts? At first I thought that
> this is sorta like the breadcrumb approach. However, most users are
> accustomed to a tree-like structure. So, I was thinking of creating a history
> tree that updates as a user travels through a site would be a neat idea.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------




That sounds like a great idea - if you find anything let me know. I could
really use that on a project I'm working on.

---------------------
Aaron Schaap
www.theparagon.org



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 10:13:14 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 10:13:14 2002
Subject: [thelist] Locally PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <01ed01c243a4$351325a0$2c01020a@Beanstalk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCEEJMDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

what would the difference between that and using zend (is there anythng else
other than zend)?

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Rob Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 04:07
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] PHP Doubling up


Or depending whether you feel up to doing it you could install a
webserver/php/mysql locally .... depends how confortable you'd feel doing
it.

Rob
.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

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From robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 10:21:01 2002
From: robw at enigma-interactive.co.uk (Rob Wilson)
Date: Wed Aug 14 10:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Locally PHP Doubling up
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCEEJMDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <01fd01c243a6$1f6b8f10$2c01020a@Beanstalk>

>what would the difference between that and using zend (is there anythng
else
>other than zend)?

I've not used Zend to any great extent so I can't really comment on the
differences, but reasons I would suggest would be to be able to work with
other server side tech (perl,SSI,coldfusion).  Equally I don't know whether
the Zend suite deals with Database connections as well ... this might not be
something you're looking to do but it's nice to have the capability.  It
would also allow you to gain experience dealing with running you own
Webserver which is a useful skill to obtain (IMHO natch).

If Zend does everything you want in one handy-dandy package then you might
as well use that, if you think you might want to do more than it does then
it's probably worthwhile going the other route.

YMMV as always :o]

Rob




From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Wed Aug 14 10:30:01 2002
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Wed Aug 14 10:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Zend was PHP Doubling up 
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEJLDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <004001c243a7$736e67d0$8102a8c0@000347D72515>

[snip]
looks briliant, is this what most php developers use?  Is there a free
version
:)
[/snip]

v2.0 is free at http://www.zend.com/store/products/zend-studio-personal.php
but lacks a few things. You should find all that you need though to use it.

HTH!

Jay




From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Wed Aug 14 10:32:04 2002
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Wed Aug 14 10:32:04 2002
Subject: [thelist] Locally PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCEEJMDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <004101c243a7$dd149bf0$8102a8c0@000347D72515>

[snip]
Or depending whether you feel up to doing it you could install a
webserver/php/mysql locally .... depends how confortable you'd feel doing
it.
[/snip]

This is the ideal way to go, and you could couple it with use of the Zend
Studio. If you have an old PC laying around you can set up either a Linux,
FreeBSD, or Windows server, configure it to run Apache, PHP and MySQL rather
easily. There are lots of tutorials out there for doing this.

Jay

***********************************************************
* Texas PHP Developers Conf  Spring 2003                  *
* T Bar M Resort & Conference Center                      *
* New Braunfels, Texas                                    *
* San Antonio Area PHP Developers Group                   *
* Interested? Contact jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com *
***********************************************************




From lists at pinetree.net  Wed Aug 14 10:35:07 2002
From: lists at pinetree.net (Oren Levin)
Date: Wed Aug 14 10:35:07 2002
Subject: [thelist] access pop3 - perl script
In-Reply-To: <098001c2438e$fc84bdd0$c703c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <LPBBLPEJOJDELLBIKBMOEEBICMAA.lists@pinetree.net>

Roll your own with a combination of Net::POP3, MIME::Parser, and
HTML::Parser?

Oren
-----
Oren Levin, Web Developer
olevin at audible.com, 973.837.2811
Get free digital audio - www.audible.com/spreadthewords

-----Original Message-----
Has anyone come across a Perl script that will access a pop3 mailbox,
extract the attachments, and save them on the server for downloading, like
an "attachments archive"?




From webdev at mountain.ch  Wed Aug 14 10:36:01 2002
From: webdev at mountain.ch (Mark Howells)
Date: Wed Aug 14 10:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Looking for info on units of measurement
Message-ID: <B9804546.5016%webdev@mountain.ch>

Does anyone know where I can find a website which details the units of
measurement (miles/feet or metres) in different countries of the world?

Please reply off-list, thanks.

Thanks and regards
Mark Howells
<http://www.mark.ac/>



From fortune_elkins at summithq.com  Wed Aug 14 10:38:01 2002
From: fortune_elkins at summithq.com (Fortune Elkins)
Date: Wed Aug 14 10:38:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] diaster recovery with WAP and palm pilots. . .
Message-ID: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F50635A12A@nyexchange01.summithq.com>

hiya!

as some of you may know, my company was dislocated on 9-11. we have since
returned to ground zero. we are looking at making some web pages that people
can log into in case of another event, so that even if people flee in
disorder they can log in somewhere and we can know everyone is safe. as you
may recall, on 9-11, the land phones in nyc were mostly down but many
internet-dedicatd phone numbers were still working so that many people could
still access the web.

obviously this means these dynamic pages (probably .asp) should be
accessible somehow to laptops, phones, and palm pilots. i've never made wap
pages -- is wap still alive? is the  Nokia WML Studio Extension compatible
with dwmx? will the nokia studio work for most web phone? how can i do this
for palm pilots as well *without* avantgo?

i've been over to the macromedia support pages and downloaded some reference
material, the nokia extension, etc. before i start i'd love some advice and
direction from those of you who have actually done such a thing, if it's
possible. . .i don't even know if the palm pilot can do dynamic pages. . .

i guess palm pages have to be html 3, while WAP pages are WAP1.1??

tia,

f

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own, and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Summit
Systems Inc.



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 10:38:16 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 10:38:16 2002
Subject: [thelist] Locally PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <004101c243a7$dd149bf0$8102a8c0@000347D72515>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEJPDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

I've setup a debian server and got as far as the X environment with a mouse
working!  It does run but setting it up is sooo time consuming

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Jay Blanchard
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 04:33
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Locally PHP Doubling up


[snip]
Or depending whether you feel up to doing it you could install a
webserver/php/mysql locally .... depends how confortable you'd feel doing
it.
[/snip]

This is the ideal way to go, and you could couple it with use of the Zend
Studio. If you have an old PC laying around you can set up either a Linux,
FreeBSD, or Windows server, configure it to run Apache, PHP and MySQL rather
easily. There are lots of tutorials out there for doing this.

Jay

***********************************************************
* Texas PHP Developers Conf  Spring 2003                  *
* T Bar M Resort & Conference Center                      *
* New Braunfels, Texas                                    *
* San Antonio Area PHP Developers Group                   *
* Interested? Contact jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com *
***********************************************************


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From andrew at andrewlavallee.com  Wed Aug 14 10:41:01 2002
From: andrew at andrewlavallee.com (Andrew LaVallee)
Date: Wed Aug 14 10:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] industry-standard browser width?
Message-ID: <200208141140.AA625475950@andrewlavallee.com>

What is the generally accepted standard width when designing for 800x600 screen resolutions? I've seen 778x409 (which seems on the short side) and am wondering how much leeway, esp. heightwise, there is.

Thanks,
Andrew


..............................
Andrew LaVallee
andrew at andrewlavallee.com
http://www.andrewlavallee.com



From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Wed Aug 14 10:49:01 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Wed Aug 14 10:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A12B@fsjubj09>

>Now, the tree would say =
>[ Home ]
>  [ Thoughts ]
>    ..U R here...
>
>Then, if the user were to go to another parent's child, it would display :
>[ Home ]
>  [ Thoughts ]
>  [ Parent ]
>    ..U R here...

Would this history be persistent? In other words, if I am at Home > Thoughts
and go to Home > Rants, does the tree look like this:

	[ Home ]
		[ Thoughts ]
		[ Rants ]

Or does it look like this:

	[ Home ]
		[ Rants ]

If the latter, it's just a breadcrumb in a different layout. I've seen this
layout on some sites, search engines, etc but can't recall any off-hand.

If the former, be aware it could become unweildy very quickly if the user
visits a lot of pages.

As for storage, either a database or a cookie would probably work. I prefer
the cookie off-hand because with the database you would need to deal with
deleting the information when a user leaves.

-dave


From davidu at everydns.net  Wed Aug 14 10:57:01 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David U.)
Date: Wed Aug 14 10:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Locally PHP Doubling up
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEJPDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <003401c243ab$61400790$3d19fc80@pravda>

Andrew Maynes wrote:
> I've setup a debian server and got as far as the X environment with a
> mouse working!  It does run but setting it up is sooo time consuming
>

Correction: Setting it up is time consuming for a new user who has not yet
moved up along the steep learning curve.  I am sure if you tried again it
would go much faster.  I think it takes me about 20-30 minutes to have a
debian machine up and running as a webserver these days.

There used to be some tools for windows that would download, install and
configure apache/php/mysql on a windows machine.  It was called PHPtriad if
I remember right (but the author stopped working on it, afaik).

-davidu




From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org  Wed Aug 14 10:57:12 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan)
Date: Wed Aug 14 10:57:12 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
In-Reply-To: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A12B@fsjubj09>
References: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A12B@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <200208140839.33924.burhankhalid@members.evolt.org>

On Wednesday 14 August 2002 08:47 am, David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil wrote:
[ snip ]
> Would this history be persistent? In other words, if I am at Home >
> Thoughts and go to Home > Rants, does the tree look like this:
>
> 	[ Home ]
> 		[ Thoughts ]
> 		[ Rants ]
>
> Or does it look like this:
>
> 	[ Home ]
> 		[ Rants ]
>
> If the latter, it's just a breadcrumb in a different layout. I've seen this
> layout on some sites, search engines, etc but can't recall any off-hand.
>
> If the former, be aware it could become unweildy very quickly if the user
> visits a lot of pages.
>
[ /snip ]

Well, I am hoping that something like this to happen :
[ Home ]
  [ Thoughts ]
  [ Rants ]

Now if a user clicks on a page that is under thoughts, then this should happen
:

[ Home ]
  [ Thoughts ]
    ...page...
  [ Rants ]

Basically, if a user enters the page for a parent that is not listed, it is
appended, other than that, the tree is updated (and expanded/contracted) as
needed.

--
*---------------*
| Burhan Khalid |
*---------------*---------------------------*
| Email : burhankhalid[at]members.evolt.org |
| Web   : members.evolt.org/burhankhalid    |
| ICQ   : 6016166                           |
| AIM   : digitz0819                        |
| MSN   : burhankh[at]hotmail.com           |
| Yahoo : burhan_khalid                     |
*-------------------------------------------*
Never go to a doctor whose office plants have died.
		-- Erma Bombeck



From dbindel at austin.rr.com  Wed Aug 14 11:02:01 2002
From: dbindel at austin.rr.com (David Bindel)
Date: Wed Aug 14 11:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Locally PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <003401c243ab$61400790$3d19fc80@pravda>
Message-ID: <KFEDKCDLJCPGIDGACLAOGELOCAAA.dbindel@austin.rr.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> -----Original Message-----
> David U. wrote:
> There used to be some tools for windows that would download, install and
> configure apache/php/mysql on a windows machine.  It was called
> PHPtriad if
> I remember right (but the author stopped working on it, afaik).

I just did a search for PHP Triad and it appears as though the author (or
someone else) has picked up working on it.

Here's it's website on SourceForge:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/phptriad
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From hassan at webtuitive.com  Wed Aug 14 11:02:38 2002
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Wed Aug 14 11:02:38 2002
Subject: [thelist] Locally PHP Doubling up
References: <004101c243a7$dd149bf0$8102a8c0@000347D72515>
Message-ID: <3D5A7EBD.5020407@webtuitive.com>

Jay Blanchard wrote:
> [snip]
> Or depending whether you feel up to doing it you could install a
> webserver/php/mysql locally .... depends how confortable you'd feel doing
> it.
> [/snip]
>
> This is the ideal way to go, and you could couple it with use of the Zend
> Studio. If you have an old PC laying around ...

? Why bother with another machine? Install on your desktop system,
and away you go ...

--
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

     -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --




From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 14 11:05:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Wed Aug 14 11:05:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] industry-standard browser width?
In-Reply-To: <200208141140.AA625475950@andrewlavallee.com>
Message-ID: <20020814160346.84332.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>

Andrew, there really is no standard. The width of the screen has too
many variables to call any one width "standard". The OS, the browser,
resolution settings, is the window maximized and on and on.

If you want a fixed layout for 800 x 600 (which I would advise
against) I would try and find out what the likliest smallest width
might be, and take 10 pixels off that, and use it. You might end up
with something close to 700 pixels, but again, if somebody has a
window not maximized, they won't get it all.

Think liquid..

HTH.

Tom


--- Andrew LaVallee <andrew at andrewlavallee.com> wrote:
> What is the generally accepted standard width when designing for
> 800x600 screen resolutions? I've seen 778x409 (which seems on the
> short side) and am wondering how much leeway, esp. heightwise,
> there is.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew


=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Wed Aug 14 11:07:01 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Wed Aug 14 11:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A12E@fsjubj09>

>Well, I am hoping that something like this to happen :
>[ Home ]
>  [ Thoughts ]
>  [ Rants ]
>
>Now if a user clicks on a page that is under thoughts, then this should
happen
>:
>
>[ Home ]
>  [ Thoughts ]
>    ...page...
>  [ Rants ]
>
>Basically, if a user enters the page for a parent that is not listed, it is
>appended, other than that, the tree is updated (and expanded/contracted) as
>needed.

Sounds slick - I like it! :)

Also sounds like a job for XML -- I know in IE you could build this on the
client as a data island, and the MSXML DOM is tailor-made for this kind of
tree manipulation.

	xmldata.getElement( "/Home/Thoughts" ).appendChild( this.value )

Or something similar, I'm just a bit rusty on my MSXML (been a couple
months) and haven't had a need to build it on the client, but it's there. Of
course the above would work best in a frameset (because you need to persist
the tree between page loads) but you get the idea.

I'm assuming Mozilla has a similar capability to IE (client-side XML)? Am I
wrong?

-dave


From Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov  Wed Aug 14 11:10:01 2002
From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov (Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov)
Date: Wed Aug 14 11:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
Message-ID: <C6B2C319C76C7A498CC6AE908EAEC5C3EA23FE@apexch10.rl.gov>

Burhan,

I'm a tree-based structure junkie. (-:

The easiest way to represent a tree of the type you are suggesting is (IMHO)
to use the datatypes of your server-side scripting language of choice to
build an actual tree and write a few functions to traverse it and get the
information you need. I've done this successfully with PHP.

It's my personal opinion that history trees aren't as helpful to users as
"breadcrumbs" or site hierarchy trees. I think that "recently viewed pages"
(a la Amazon.com) can be useful on larger sites, but I'm not sure what
benefit a tree of such pages would have.

--
Jonathan McPherson, LMIT/SD&I
Software Engineer & Web Systems Analyst
email / jonathan_a_mcpherson at rl dot gov


-----Original Message-----
From: Burhan [mailto:burhankhalid at members.evolt.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:41 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions


Hello :

Recently I was thinking -- wouldn't it be nice to have a history display on
the page that displays hierarchy? Basically, a dynamically updating tree,
that tracks your path thru the site.

Here is what I'm thinking :

On Load, Tree is = [ Home ] (or Index, or whatever)
Say the user navigates to a page that is under the section thoughts.

Now, the tree would say =
[ Home ]
  [ Thoughts ]
    ..U R here...

Then, if the user were to go to another parent's child, it would display : [
Home ]
  [ Thoughts ]
  [ Parent ]
    ..U R here...

I have the logic figured out in my head. However, my problem is how would I
store the relative information? In a database? How would I link each link to
its parent? Has anyone ever done this? Any thoughts? At first I thought that
this is sorta like the breadcrumb approach. However, most users are
accustomed to a tree-like structure. So, I was thinking of creating a
history tree that updates as a user travels through a site would be a neat
idea.

Input is always appreciated.
--
*---------------*
| Burhan Khalid |
*---------------*---------------------------*
| Email : burhankhalid[at]members.evolt.org |
| Web   : members.evolt.org/burhankhalid    |
| ICQ   : 6016166                           |
| AIM   : digitz0819                        |
| MSN   : burhankh[at]hotmail.com           |
| Yahoo : burhan_khalid                     |
*-------------------------------------------*


From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Wed Aug 14 11:14:01 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Wed Aug 14 11:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] industry-standard browser width?
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BA9F@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew LaVallee [mailto:andrew at andrewlavallee.com]
> Sent: August 14, 2002 11:40 AM

> What is the generally accepted standard width when designing
> for 800x600 screen resolutions? I've seen 778x409 (which

As Tom said, there is no real "standard", but Webmonkey has done a
fairly comprehensive analysis of the various browser canvas sizes out
there:
<http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/99/41/index3a_page2.html>

The results suggest:
- safest choice: 744 X 410
- 5.0+ Win & Mac: 748 X 410
- Windows only: 776 X 410

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From danfascia at totalise.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 11:27:01 2002
From: danfascia at totalise.co.uk (Daniel Fascia)
Date: Wed Aug 14 11:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] diaster recovery with WAP and palm pilots. . .
In-Reply-To: <1449413DA482D311B67000508B5A12F50635A12A@nyexchange01.summithq.com>
Message-ID: <96IC9454JHMKF0NHNK2ZPQOHGUQBHC.3d5a8424@DANFASCIA-21>

>accessible somehow to laptops, phones, and palm pilots. i've never made wap
>pages -- is wap still alive? is the  Nokia WML Studio Extension compatible
>with dwmx? will the nokia studio work for most web phone? how can i do this
>for palm pilots as well *without* avantgo?

WAP is still very much alive in Europe at least, but I think things are going to move
towards using XHTML Basic rather than WML.

You shouldnt need to bother with WML studio. For starters, its crap and also WML
is SOoo simple that you can learn it in about 5 minutes...

For this kind of project, I would personally create something in XML and make a
script which would gracefully downgrade to whatever device is in use. I guess the
emphasis is not on glamourous pages but rapid and efficient communication




From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 11:30:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 11:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Locally PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <KFEDKCDLJCPGIDGACLAOGELOCAAA.dbindel@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEKDDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

ok this looks cool, but I have a question... How will this be different from
Zend and is it going to help me?

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of David Bindel
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 05:01
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Locally PHP Doubling up



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> -----Original Message-----
> David U. wrote:
> There used to be some tools for windows that would download, install and
> configure apache/php/mysql on a windows machine.  It was called
> PHPtriad if
> I remember right (but the author stopped working on it, afaik).

I just did a search for PHP Triad and it appears as though the author (or
someone else) has picked up working on it.

Here's it's website on SourceForge:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/phptriad
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=BuKD
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the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

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From Ashok at MagicalKenya.com  Wed Aug 14 11:32:01 2002
From: Ashok at MagicalKenya.com (Ashok at MagicalKenya.com)
Date: Wed Aug 14 11:32:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL 2000 auto create ID's
Message-ID: <OF450B2F1B.0B3A933A-ON43256C15.00573030@symphony.co.ke>

>I want SQL 2000 to automatically create unique ID's
>and passwords for users to have access to a website.
>Each unique ID must start with 'AB'.
>Then I want to add after the 'AB' seven random
>alpha and/or numeric characters.
>The password can be anything, six characters.

You can do this very easily using SQL Server , try the following  TSQL in a
sqlserver stored procedure :

<code>
declare @rndpass varchar(10) -- random password
declare @rnduser varchar(255) -- random user id

select @rndpass = CAST( Rand() as varchar(10))
select @rndpass = substring(@rndpass,3,7)

select @rnduser = CONVERT(varchar(255), NEWID())
select @rnduser = 'AB'+substring(@rnduser,1,7)

--rnduser & rndpass have the generated username & password
select @rnduser, @rndpass

--- insert into table .....code.....

</code>

the password is a six digit number generated using the RAND() function.
the user name is a random alpha-numeric combination (NEWID() returns a GUID
value)
prefixed with an 'AB'

HTH
Ashok

------
Ashok Hariharan
http://www.hazard0us.org
------





From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 11:32:33 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 11:32:33 2002
Subject: [thelist] Locally PHP Doubling up
In-Reply-To: <3D5A7EBD.5020407@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEKEDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

Do you mean Zend or http://sourceforge.net/projects/phptriad

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Hassan Schroeder
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 05:01
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Locally PHP Doubling up


Jay Blanchard wrote:
> [snip]
> Or depending whether you feel up to doing it you could install a
> webserver/php/mysql locally .... depends how confortable you'd feel doing
> it.
> [/snip]
>
> This is the ideal way to go, and you could couple it with use of the Zend
> Studio. If you have an old PC laying around ...

? Why bother with another machine? Install on your desktop system,
and away you go ...

--
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

     -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --


--
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From josh at eaccessit.com  Wed Aug 14 11:43:01 2002
From: josh at eaccessit.com (Josh Spiegel)
Date: Wed Aug 14 11:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Flash Drawing Question
In-Reply-To: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC2032FCB22@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <000201c243b2$570af210$6801a8c0@AccessIT4>

A client has these black and white line art cartoons.  He wants people
to be able to fill them in with color on the website.  He has about 80
images.  Is there any way to do this in Flash without making each white
spot a movie clip?

Here is an example of what I want to do.
http://pbskids.org/sagwa/color/paint/index_paint.html

Again, it would be really nice if I didn't have to make each little
white space its own object.

Thanks,
Josh







From mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com  Wed Aug 14 11:50:01 2002
From: mspiegler at lightbulbpress.com (Matt S.)
Date: Wed Aug 14 11:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Flash Drawing Question
References: <000201c243b2$570af210$6801a8c0@AccessIT4>
Message-ID: <3D5A89DD.2A01396E@lightbulbpress.com>

You'll need to make them into MC's. This example probably uses a function
similar to:

function changeColor(col, clip){
var myColor = new Color(clip);
myColor.setRGB(col);
}

which sets the color of the MC specified.

The book "Flash 5 Magic with Actionscript" has a tutorial built around
creating a coloring tool like the example you sent, you could probably
also find something at http://www.flashkit.com .

.matt

Josh Spiegel wrote:

> A client has these black and white line art cartoons.  He wants people
> to be able to fill them in with color on the website.  He has about 80
> images.  Is there any way to do this in Flash without making each white
> spot a movie clip?
>
> Here is an example of what I want to do.
> http://pbskids.org/sagwa/color/paint/index_paint.html
>
> Again, it would be really nice if I didn't have to make each little
> white space its own object.
>
> Thanks,
> Josh
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From hassan at webtuitive.com  Wed Aug 14 11:53:01 2002
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Wed Aug 14 11:53:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Locally PHP Doubling up
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCAEKEDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3D5A8ABE.2020906@webtuitive.com>

Andrew Maynes wrote:
> Do you mean Zend or http://sourceforge.net/projects/phptriad

>> Install on your desktop system,

The latter; I just think it facilitates development if you have
your desktop system running the same server software you use in
production -- no copying files back and forth, etc.

But as far as Zend does, that's a desktop app anyway, so sure,
install it, try it, remove if it doesn't suit you ...

FWIW!
--
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

     -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --




From brad at beldamar.com  Wed Aug 14 11:54:01 2002
From: brad at beldamar.com (Brad Miller)
Date: Wed Aug 14 11:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
In-Reply-To: <200208140741.07848.burhankhalid@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <001201c243a6$a1e02a50$b1276844@beldamar>

Rather than using a database I would write an XML file to store the tree
structure.
Since it is already in a hierarchal format it wouldn't be very difficult to
transpose it to the browser.
and if you were just supporting IE browsers you could just have the browser
render the file, but that isn't too likely.

This wouldn't be a bad idea for some sites that are very large and all the
pages look the same. Or sites that have sections that are seperated from
each other, like microsoft.com where you could be in the Windows section of
the site or you could be in the Office section. It is sometimes confusing
after clicking through a few links to figure out exactly where you are. In
this situation it would be nice to see that if you navigated to the Windows
section the index page of that section would display as a top level element
in the tree structure then everything below it would be a child of that and
if you went to the Office section that would become a new top level element.

This might be really kewl as a plugin or something that you can turn on or
off in your browser and would work for any site. Kinda like the little
search frame in IE.

Brad Miller
www.beldamar.com
www.x-etc.com
brad at beldamar.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A virus in a document is OK
(provided the DTD allows it)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From mark at mountain.ch  Wed Aug 14 11:54:27 2002
From: mark at mountain.ch (Mark Howells)
Date: Wed Aug 14 11:54:27 2002
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Looking for info on units of measurement
Message-ID: <B980443A.5012%mark@mountain.ch>

Does anyone know where I can find a website which details the units of
measurement (miles/feet or metres) in different countries of the world?

Please reply off-list, thanks.

Thanks and regards
Mark Howells
<http://www.mark.ac/>



From judah at wiredotter.com  Wed Aug 14 12:09:00 2002
From: judah at wiredotter.com (Judah McAuley)
Date: Wed Aug 14 12:09:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] websitegarage.com dead.  now what?
Message-ID: <3D5A8E70.6010408@wiredotter.com>

I wanted to check the weight of a page I was viewing so I went to my old
standby, websitegarage.com.  It turns out they they are officially off
the web as of tomorrow (9/15) and the tools aren't available as of
today.  Well nuts.

So I need an alternative that does roughly the same thing: feed it a URL
and get back a breakdown of images, text, etc. and its size.

I tried googling for "calculating page size" but didn't come up with
anything useful.  Anyone have any favorite tools or better search phrases?

TIA,
Judah



From roselli at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 14 12:13:01 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Wed Aug 14 12:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] industry-standard browser width?
In-Reply-To: <200208141140.AA625475950@andrewlavallee.com>
Message-ID: <200208141712.g7EHC9B4002457@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Andrew LaVallee" <andrew at andrewlavallee.com>
>
> What is the generally accepted standard width when designing for
> 800x600 screen resolutions? I've seen 778x409 (which seems on the
> short side) and am wondering how much leeway, esp. heightwise, there
> is.

first, you're assuming that users at 8x6 surf full-screen...

then you have to guess how many toolbars they have open...
height is usually harder to nail than width...

however, i can offer you the means to answer your own question:

Real-World Browser Size Stats, Part I
http://evolt.org/Screen_Stats_1
- it's a tutorial on how to capture the window and screen sizes (and
bit-depths) of your users...

my results:

Real-World Browser Size Stats, Part II
http://evolt.org/Screen_Stats_2

at the time of the article (2 years ago), the breakdown of 8x6 users
at *my* site was this:

	width	height	bit-depth
Mean	719	397	20
Median	779	420	16
Mode	780	434	16

Highest	843	524	32
Lowest	80	96	8

(use a monospace font to see the pseudo-chart)


--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035


From ben_dyer at imaginuity.com  Wed Aug 14 12:21:01 2002
From: ben_dyer at imaginuity.com (Ben Dyer)
Date: Wed Aug 14 12:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] websitegarage.com dead.  now what?
In-Reply-To: <3D5A8E70.6010408@wiredotter.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020814121744.0475a580@mail.imaginuity.com>

You could try Paessler's IE Booster (Windows only, though).  It's not a
site where you can plug in a URL, but a right-click contextual menu.

If you select "Show Images" on the menu, it gives you a list of them all
with their sizes plus a total and another total + the file size of the source.

<http://www.paessler.com/products/ieb/index.html>

Works for me when I need it.

--Ben

At 12:08 PM 8/14/2002, you wrote:
>So I need an alternative that does roughly the same thing: feed it a URL
>and get back a breakdown of images, text, etc. and its size.


Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive
http://www.imaginuity.com/

Not an Emergency: "AudioGalaxy doesn't work anymore."
Emergency: "The server is on fire, bring the extinguisher!"
Please adjust your e-mail priorities accordingly.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
         http://www.radicalbender.com/     http://www.evolt.org/



From spambait at onpointsolutions.com  Wed Aug 14 12:29:00 2002
From: spambait at onpointsolutions.com (Bob Haroche)
Date: Wed Aug 14 12:29:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] javascript pre-loads slow in IE
References: <3D59BD01.6090401@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <003801c243b7$e1d56510$9865fea9@Laptop>

> would someone (or two) be kind enough to check
> whether the javascript rollover images pre-loads
> on the following page (and one linked off it)


They roll fine for me in IE 6.

<tip type = "preloading rollover images in IE">

Certain versions of IE have a "bug" where rollovers would appear not to
preload if the browser's settings were not set right. The browser should be
set to check for new files "automatically" -- fortunately, I think that's
the default.

</tip>

HTH.

Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
www.OnPointSolutions.com



From bill at webmarketingworx.com  Wed Aug 14 12:33:01 2002
From: bill at webmarketingworx.com (Bill Haenel)
Date: Wed Aug 14 12:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] websitegarage.com dead.  now what?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020814121744.0475a580@mail.imaginuity.com>
Message-ID: <OGEGLPOAALPOBHGOPHFIKEPDDMAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>

There's also a great tool that will do that sort of stuff and quite a bit
more called WebTool. Find it and a couple of other cool tools at
http://www.iconico.com/webtool/.

BH

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Ben Dyer
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 1:20 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] websitegarage.com dead. now what?
>
>
> You could try Paessler's IE Booster (Windows only, though).  It's not a
> site where you can plug in a URL, but a right-click contextual menu.
>
> If you select "Show Images" on the menu, it gives you a list of them all
> with their sizes plus a total and another total + the file size
> of the source.
>
> <http://www.paessler.com/products/ieb/index.html>
>
> Works for me when I need it.
>
> --Ben
>
> At 12:08 PM 8/14/2002, you wrote:
> >So I need an alternative that does roughly the same thing: feed it a URL
> >and get back a breakdown of images, text, etc. and its size.
>
>
> Ben Dyer, Senior Internet Developer, Imaginuity Interactive
> http://www.imaginuity.com/
>
> Not an Emergency: "AudioGalaxy doesn't work anymore."
> Emergency: "The server is on fire, bring the extinguisher!"
> Please adjust your e-mail priorities accordingly.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>          http://www.radicalbender.com/     http://www.evolt.org/
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>



From simon at incutio.com  Wed Aug 14 12:35:01 2002
From: simon at incutio.com (Simon Willison)
Date: Wed Aug 14 12:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] websitegarage.com dead.  now what?
In-Reply-To: <3D5A8E70.6010408@wiredotter.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020814182927.01d161b8@mail.incutio.com>

At 10:08 14/08/2002 -0700, Judah McAuley wrote:
>I wanted to check the weight of a page I was viewing so I went to my old
>standby, websitegarage.com.  It turns out they they are officially off
>the web as of tomorrow (9/15) and the tools aren't available as of
>today.  Well nuts.
>
>So I need an alternative that does roughly the same thing: feed it a URL
>and get back a breakdown of images, text, etc. and its size.
>
>I tried googling for "calculating page size" but didn't come up with
>anything useful.  Anyone have any favorite tools or better search phrases?

I have an IE bookmarklet that attempts to calculate page weight, but
unfortunately it only deals with the size of the HTML page and any images
included with the <img> tag - it doesn't include the sizes of CSS files,
external javascripts and background images attached using CSS. Still, you
might find it useful (word wrap warning):

javascript:void((function(){var
element=document.createElement('script');element.setAttribute('src','http://www.gazingus.org/js/pageWeight.js');document.body.appendChild(element)})())

Regards,

Simon Willison
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~cs1spw/blog/



From hershelr at netvision.net.il  Wed Aug 14 12:41:01 2002
From: hershelr at netvision.net.il (Hershel Robinson)
Date: Wed Aug 14 12:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
Message-ID: <3D5ABFA2.15730.14A5CFA@localhost>

I have just had the pleasure (sic) of rebuilding my Win 2K box from
scratch after a little virus ate the previous system.  I am now
prepared to give up Outlook Express (which I actually like) and try
another email client.  I have Pegasus now but so far I don't like it
so much.

Anyone have any recommendations as to a full-featured, somewhat
secure Win 2K email client?

Thanks,
Hershel


From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Wed Aug 14 12:42:01 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Wed Aug 14 12:42:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A130@fsjubj09>

>This might be really kewl as a plugin or something that you can turn on or
>off in your browser and would work for any site. Kinda like the little
>search frame in IE.

I was thinking the same thing. :)

The problem I'd see though, is how do you specify parent/child page
relationships in HTML? Go from a page deep in Windows to a page deep in
Office in one click, how does the tree know that the Office page is five
levels down in the Office section?

-dave


From evolt at david.us-lot.org  Wed Aug 14 12:45:01 2002
From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward)
Date: Wed Aug 14 12:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <3D5ABFA2.15730.14A5CFA@localhost>
References: <3D5ABFA2.15730.14A5CFA@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020814184612.04a6cefe.evolt@david.us-lot.org>

On Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:37:54 +0200
Hershel Robinson <hershelr at netvision.net.il> wrote:

> I have just had the pleasure (sic) of rebuilding my Win 2K box from
> scratch after a little virus ate the previous system.  I am now
> prepared to give up Outlook Express (which I actually like) and try
> another email client.  I have Pegasus now but so far I don't like it
> so much.
>
> Anyone have any recommendations as to a full-featured, somewhat
> secure Win 2K email client?

I've heard good things about The Bat: http://www.ritlabs.com/the_bat/


--
David Dorward                                   http://david.us-lot.org/
HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV.


From judah at wiredotter.com  Wed Aug 14 12:46:00 2002
From: judah at wiredotter.com (Judah McAuley)
Date: Wed Aug 14 12:46:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
References: <3D5ABFA2.15730.14A5CFA@localhost>
Message-ID: <3D5A9730.2010302@wiredotter.com>

Hershel Robinson wrote:
> Anyone have any recommendations as to a full-featured, somewhat
> secure Win 2K email client?

I really love Mozilla.  Multiple accounts, threaded mail, really fast
search function, ability to block javascript and such in emails, PGP
integration, blah blah blah.

Good stuff and free.

Judah



From slewis at macrovista.net  Wed Aug 14 12:46:36 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Wed Aug 14 12:46:36 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
References: <001201c243a6$a1e02a50$b1276844@beldamar>
Message-ID: <3D5A987E.2010606@macrovista.net>

Brad Miller wrote:

I personally think the usability value of this tree is not very high,
but it will depend on the audience (a more technical audience with a
large site of technical content could help improve adoption).  It is an
interesting investigation.

> Rather than using a database I would write an XML file to store the tree
> structure.
> Since it is already in a hierarchal format it wouldn't be very difficult to
> transpose it to the browser.
> and if you were just supporting IE browsers you could just have the browser
> render the file, but that isn't too likely.

I agree that XML would be an idea storage mechanism.  Keep the XML
structure in server-side session variables if it is only intended to
remain for the current session (unless you are a hot-shot using an
object-relational database storing and accessing tree structures in DBs
can be a pain).  Try to get access to some XSLT tools or do some regex
(See the latest article on evolt for an example) to transform the XML
structure to diplay-able HTML.

> This might be really kewl as a plugin or something that you can turn on or
> off in your browser and would work for any site. Kinda like the little
> search frame in IE.
I could swear I saw something like this in some transitory old Netscape
(maybe it was one of the potential NS 5 features I saw demo'ed?)
version.  Anyone?

--Steve



From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Wed Aug 14 12:54:01 2002
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Wed Aug 14 12:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <3D5A9730.2010302@wiredotter.com>
Message-ID: <013f01c243bb$7d64d260$6561a8c0@vader>

I as well would like to move from Outlook - but does Mozilla Mail (or
any of the other suggestions) have a decent Contact DB/Calendar program
as well?

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire

Email    : jedimaster at macromedia.com
Yahoo IM : cfjedimaster

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Judah McAuley
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 1:45 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
>
>
> Hershel Robinson wrote:
> > Anyone have any recommendations as to a full-featured, somewhat
> > secure Win 2K email client?
>
> I really love Mozilla.  Multiple accounts, threaded mail, really fast
> search function, ability to block javascript and such in emails, PGP
> integration, blah blah blah.
>




From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 14 12:55:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Wed Aug 14 12:55:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] great web tool (was death of garagesite)
In-Reply-To: <OGEGLPOAALPOBHGOPHFIKEPDDMAA.bill@webmarketingworx.com>
Message-ID: <20020814175400.98117.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>

Wow, let me give a big +1 for this tool. I just installed it and this
thing is great. Lots of really helpful stuff, and free to boot.

T
--- Bill Haenel <bill at webmarketingworx.com> wrote:
> There's also a great tool that will do that sort of stuff and quite
> a bit
> more called WebTool. Find it and a couple of other cool tools at
> http://www.iconico.com/webtool/.


=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From chris at fuzzylizard.com  Wed Aug 14 12:59:01 2002
From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Wed Aug 14 12:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
References: <3D5ABFA2.15730.14A5CFA@localhost> <3D5A9730.2010302@wiredotter.com>
Message-ID: <3D5AA837.80402@fuzzylizard.com>

I have to put in another vote for Mozilla. I have found it to be an
excellent mail package and I have yet to find anything missing that I
could do in Outlook. I really like the threaded view, very easy to
follow and to use. This is a feature that was very poorly done in Outlook

The multiple email accounts takes a little bit to get used to I found
after using Outlook, but it does make separating the email much nicer.

It also handles reply mail a lot better then Outlook and evens knows to
remove the added bits at the end of an email (ie. the stuff after the
two dashes and the space -- )

And it's free.

//chris

Judah McAuley wrote:

> Hershel Robinson wrote:
>
>> Anyone have any recommendations as to a full-featured, somewhat
>> secure Win 2K email client?
>
>
> I really love Mozilla.  Multiple accounts, threaded mail, really fast
> search function, ability to block javascript and such in emails, PGP
> integration, blah blah blah.
>
> Good stuff and free.
>
> Judah
>





From chris at fuzzylizard.com  Wed Aug 14 13:05:01 2002
From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:05:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
References: <013f01c243bb$7d64d260$6561a8c0@vader>
Message-ID: <3D5AA999.8080402@fuzzylizard.com>

Mozilla has a moderately good address/contact DB and the Calendar is in
the works. One nice thing about mozilla is that it can import email and
contacts from outlook so you can run the two side-by-side to see which
one you like the best.

One thing to remember with mozilla is that everything is a separate
application. So, although email can access the address book and actually
stores all email addresses that get sent to you, it is in fact a
separate application. I have found that this can be a benefit. The
calendar will be a plug-in that you can download separately for mozilla.

Raymond Camden wrote:

>I as well would like to move from Outlook - but does Mozilla Mail (or
>any of the other suggestions) have a decent Contact DB/Calendar program
>as well?
>
>=======================================================================
>Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire
>
>Email    : jedimaster at macromedia.com
>Yahoo IM : cfjedimaster
>
>"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda
>
>
>





From evolt at david.us-lot.org  Wed Aug 14 13:06:01 2002
From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <013f01c243bb$7d64d260$6561a8c0@vader>
References: <3D5A9730.2010302@wiredotter.com>
	<013f01c243bb$7d64d260$6561a8c0@vader>
Message-ID: <20020814190713.705d9100.evolt@david.us-lot.org>

On Wed, 14 Aug 2002 13:53:20 -0400
"Raymond Camden" <jedimaster at macromedia.com> wrote:

> I as well would like to move from Outlook - but does Mozilla Mail (or
> any of the other suggestions) have a decent Contact DB/Calendar
> program as well?

I've no idea how good it is but...

     http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/


--
David Dorward                                   http://david.us-lot.org/
HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV.


From kstevens89 at comcast.net  Wed Aug 14 13:15:01 2002
From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:15:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] formmail prob...com vs net??
In-Reply-To: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCEEDILGAA.magic32@jps.net>
References: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCEEDILGAA.magic32@jps.net>
Message-ID: <a05111b03b9804ba29cc6@[68.35.112.212]>

Have you tried to e-mail her at skyq.net?  Does it go through?

>My mom's isp (www.skyq.com) gives her 'free' 20 megs of webspace. We have a
>simple form that users can check some choices/radio buttons/text areas and
>submit it. Unfortunately, skyq doesn't allow a cgi-bin, so on 'submission',
>the info is sent to matts formmail.pl in my cgi-bin.
>
>notice the skyq.NET instead of skyq.COM? And again, her email address is
>my_mom at skyq.com .
>
>Could that have anything to do with our problem?? It shouldn't, right? But
>do some servers (?) not like formmail submitted emails? And for the record,
>she *is* able to recieve regular emails to her skyq.com email address just
>fine.
>
>as always, tia,
>


--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens

"Warning,
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons.
They will make you crunchy and eat you with ketchup."
-Unknown Author


From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 14 13:19:00 2002
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:19:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php settings for DB access
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKEJDDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20020814181805.45177.qmail@web13505.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Andrew Maynes <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk> wrote:
> There must be something with the refresh!  The index.html has kicked in now so
> none of the files residing within that directory are showing now.
>
> if search engines pick up these files then there is a potential security scare
> for alot of sites out there.

So what if search engines pick it up? It is a php script with a .php extension, so the server will
parse the file. And since it is just a variable include, the output will be nothing :).

There is a scare for those people who name files .inc or .txt or no extension at all, and the
server doesn't parse the file and opens or prompts for download :|


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From Gary at star-chaser.com  Wed Aug 14 13:24:01 2002
From: Gary at star-chaser.com (Gary Bland)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] websitegarage.com dead.  now what?
References: <3D5A8E70.6010408@wiredotter.com>
Message-ID: <3D5AA022.4010907@star-chaser.com>

Judah McAuley wrote:

>
> So I need an alternative that does roughly the same thing: feed it a URL
> and get back a breakdown of images, text, etc. and its size.


If you have Mozilla  click on view>pageinfo, all that info is there.

gary


--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 13:24:23 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:24:23 2002
Subject: [thelist] php settings for DB access
In-Reply-To: <20020814181805.45177.qmail@web13505.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEKLDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

sorry I meant .inc files with user name and passwords included.  I did a search
last night and I came a cross at least 5 files with this type of information, I
was shocked.

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of jon steele
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 07:18
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] php settings for DB access


--- Andrew Maynes <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk> wrote:
> There must be something with the refresh!  The index.html has kicked in now so
> none of the files residing within that directory are showing now.
>
> if search engines pick up these files then there is a potential security scare
> for alot of sites out there.

So what if search engines pick it up? It is a php script with a .php extension,
so the server will
parse the file. And since it is just a variable include, the output will be
nothing :).

There is a scare for those people who name files .inc or .txt or no extension at
all, and the
server doesn't parse the file and opens or prompts for download :|


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com
--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
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From cd-ml at aardvark.net.au  Wed Aug 14 13:27:00 2002
From: cd-ml at aardvark.net.au (Craig)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:27:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Passing &amp; thru a form using ASP
Message-ID: <002701c243c0$23d0e630$370302c0@max1>

Hi, does anyone know why the ASP code below doesn't pass the string '&amp;' thru when submitting the form. Even though '&amp;' is
the value for the text field, only '&' gets submitted

note: remove the first dot after <

<.!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<.html>
<.head>
<.title>Untitled Document<./title>
<.meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<./head>

<.body>
<.form action="test2.asp" method="post">
<.input type="text" value="&amp;" name="testtext">
<.input type="submit" value="submit">
<./form>
<%=request.form("testtext")%>
<./body>
<./html>


Thanks,
Craig.




From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Wed Aug 14 13:28:00 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:28:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] great web tool (was death of garagesite)
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A131@fsjubj09>

>Wow, let me give a big +1 for this tool. I just installed it and this
>thing is great. Lots of really helpful stuff, and free to boot.

> http://www.iconico.com/webtool/.

Ditto +1 -- the caliper tool is slick too, once you install the FruityLight
skin anyway... :)

-dave


From amoore at mooresystems.com  Wed Aug 14 13:33:01 2002
From: amoore at mooresystems.com (Andrew Moore)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] dynamic dns server software?
In-Reply-To: <3D52E585.36FA2822@nlcnet.org>; from bvaradi@nlcnet.org on Thu, Aug 08, 2002 at 05:41:25PM -0400
References: <3D52E585.36FA2822@nlcnet.org>
Message-ID: <20020814133229.I19938@cow.mooresystems.com>

Hi Ben -

I wrote the software for dynodns.net that deerfield now runs. I'm
not sure if they've changed the software that they're running or not,
but I'm still distributing the stuff I wrote about 2 years ago. It's in

http://www.mooresystems.com/~amoore/scripts/

And you can get dynodns-0.1.tgz or dynodns-0.2.tgz  there. A lot
has changed in the 2 years since I wrote it, but this is a start.
I also have a page at:
http://www.mooresystems.com/~amoore/scripts/dnsprimer.html
that tells a bit about it.

Also, there used to be gnudip that was a sofware package that did
this. I think it's the same stuff I see at:
http://gnudip2.sourceforge.net/

Hope it helps you out, and let me know (offlist) if you have any
questions or anything.

-Andy


On Thu, Aug 08, 2002 at 05:41:25PM -0400, Benjamin C. Varadi wrote:
> Had no luck with this on webdesign-l.  Y'all have any thoughts?
>
> -BEN
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> >> Anyone know what software exists to provide dynamic dns hosting (y'know,
> >> like ods.org or dyndns.org)?  Web searches just show me a ton of
> >> providers.
>
> I guess I didn't phrase my question well enough.  I'm looking for
> software to *provide* dynamic service.  My understanding of how this
> works is that a client program sends a sort of "authenticated ping"
> periodically to the server, which checks the client IP address against
> Apache's DNS records & makes changes if necessary.
>
> I feel like this is probably more complex than it seems, though, and if
> turnkey or (ideally) open-source scripts existed to set up a server in
> this manner, I'd love to know about it.
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 14 13:37:01 2002
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:37:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <3D5AA999.8080402@fuzzylizard.com>
Message-ID: <20020814183551.73738.qmail@web13504.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm afraid I will have to burst the Mozilla bubble and vote for Outlook 2000 (not the Express) ;).
I don't know if it's a fair competition with Outlook's price tag...

I used to use the Netscape 6 mail client (which I imagine is the same as Mozilla) and it really
annoyed me. It was slow loading, had a slow interface, minimal address book features, and I didn't
even know it had a calendar (does it?). It also had a tendency to crash on me a lot. I found it to
be very basic.

Outlook on the other hand is fast and very stable. I love the tasks feature and use it excessively
:D. The address book and calendar are great and the notes feature is pretty handy. I guess the
reason I like it so much is that everything is integrated nicely in one little package. It is one
application (contrary to Mozilla which someone mentioned entails several). The customizable
"Outlook Today" page lets you access popular tools in one screen (top 10 tasks, calendar, popular
mail folders, etc.)

It's also got pretty useful mail templating and archiving features. And as for separating emails,
it has powerful filtering which does the trick. It also allows you to access My Computer and My
Documents directly from within itself (I know, that is a pretty lazy feature...) The search is not
too shabby either. Oh and since it's MS, updates are available with the Windows Update feature
(advantage? I'm leaning towards yes :)

I think it is by far the best office app at acheiving it's goal.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From scotts at rci-nv.com  Wed Aug 14 13:40:01 2002
From: scotts at rci-nv.com (Scott Schrantz)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Passing &amp; thru a form using ASP
Message-ID: <D719D61D4BD8D311A26700A0C9E0E7B649EBAC@SERVER1>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig [mailto:cd-ml at aardvark.net.au]
>
> Hi, does anyone know why the ASP code below doesn't pass the
> string '&amp;' thru when submitting the form. Even though '&amp;' is
> the value for the text field, only '&' gets submitted

Try this:

<input type="text" value="&amp;amp;" name="testtext">

--
Scott Schrantz
work: www.rci-nv.com
play: www.computer-vet.com


From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 14 13:41:00 2002
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:41:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php settings for DB access
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEKLDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20020814183958.10654.qmail@web13507.mail.yahoo.com>

Yeah that's a pretty big issue. Although since the .inc extension is a standard most servers are
automatically configured to parse it.

Should always name your includes .inc.php

<tip type="php repetitive - read it til you learn :)">
always name your includes *.inc.php
</tip>

--- Andrew Maynes <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk> wrote:
> sorry I meant .inc files with user name and passwords included.  I did a search
> last night and I came a cross at least 5 files with this type of information, I
> was shocked.
>
> Andrew

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From slewis at macrovista.net  Wed Aug 14 13:41:10 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:41:10 2002
Subject: [thelist] websitegarage.com dead.  now what?
References: <3D5A8E70.6010408@wiredotter.com> <3D5AA022.4010907@star-chaser.com>
Message-ID: <3D5AA560.2090905@macrovista.net>

Gary Bland wrote:


> If you have Mozilla  click on view>pageinfo, all that info is there.

Not that I can see in 1.0 (I'm remiss for not upgrading)... what am I
doing wrong?

Page weight = page size + all media objects referenced through page +
all stylesheets linked + all media objects referenced in stylesheets +
all client-side scripts linked + all media objects referenced in
client-side scripts .... finding out how much HTML there is doesn't help
very much, neither does this list of images that doesn't even provide a
subtotal.

--Steve



From nzelnick at engine9.org  Wed Aug 14 13:45:01 2002
From: nzelnick at engine9.org (nate zelnick)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Java applet for file reading problem
Message-ID: <000101c243c3$46dd30e0$8b07d286@zelnickn>

<in the voice of the Simpson's Dr. Nick>
Hello Everybody!

For reasons I won't go into at the moment I find myself in a weird
little jam. I have to read a set of little text files from a single page
and use the file's contents to populate a textarea. I _cannot_ use ASP,
CFM or any other server-side transformation engine, everything must be
done on the page (ie. no http gets or posts) and the text files consist
of one item per line.

The process has to look like this:

[text input box]
- user enters filename
[onSubmitForm]
- pass filename value to function that reads filename passed from form
- function parses contents line-by-line and adds it to select box
options

I found a nifty little Java applet from AcuteSoft that solves my
"Javascript can't read server-side files" problem, but it is limited to
reading the first 100 characters of any file. That's too short.

AcuteSoft appears to be gone--its web site is dead.

Anybody know of any other applets like the AcuteSoft WebKit that work
with longer files? Or a way around the applet's limitations?

*sigh*

--------------------------------------------
Nate Zelnick
nzelnick at engine9.org OR nate.zelnick at stockton.edu
609 652-4448 (work phone)
646 263-8693 (cell phone)*
--------------------------------------------
*please note this is a NYC area code


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From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Wed Aug 14 13:47:01 2002
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Passing &amp; thru a form using ASP
In-Reply-To: <002701c243c0$23d0e630$370302c0@max1>
Message-ID: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJGECJCKAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

Craig, are you checking the submitted data via a response.write?  If so,
your browser will interpret &amp; as just the "&" character.  If you view
the source you should see "&amp;".

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

> note: remove the first dot after <
>
> <.!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
> <.html>
> <.head>
> <.title>Untitled Document<./title>
> <.meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
> <./head>
>
> <.body>
> <.form action="test2.asp" method="post">
> <.input type="text" value="&amp;" name="testtext">
> <.input type="submit" value="submit">
> <./form>
> <%=request.form("testtext")%>
> <./body>
> <./html>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Craig.



From Gary at star-chaser.com  Wed Aug 14 13:47:24 2002
From: Gary at star-chaser.com (Gary Bland)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:47:24 2002
Subject: [thelist] php settings for DB access
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEKLDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3D5AA588.6@star-chaser.com>

Andrew Maynes wrote:
> sorry I meant .inc files with user name and passwords included.  I did a search
> last night and I came a cross at least 5 files with this type of information, I
> was shocked.
>
> Andrew
   Rename them .inc.php  and change them to include("bla.inc.php"); on
the pages that include them or put them in a protected directory.
Then put the path in include("/path/to/bla.inc"); on the pages that use
them.

Gary

--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today



From r937 at interlog.com  Wed Aug 14 13:49:03 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:49:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] Passing &amp; thru a form using ASP
Message-ID: <01c243c2$a7dead20$1a5e1dd1@rudy>

><.input type="text" value="&amp;" name="testtext">

i don't know asp but you could try    value="&amp;amp"

rudy
http://rudy.ca/





From JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com  Wed Aug 14 13:49:28 2002
From: JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com (Janet Green)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:49:28 2002
Subject: [thelist] "Include" an HTML page?
Message-ID: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE5D37A1@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com>

I have a calendar of events page that needs to appear in several different places - on our intranet, on a "member services" page of our site, and in the general "about us/events" section of our main site. It's an HTML page. The info is the same in all three areas, and the formatting can remain the same as far as text treatment, but the stuff surrounding it is different each time. Is there any way to write an "include"-type statement (or something that will achieve the same purpose) for an HTML page so I don't have to update this page three different times when I make my daily changes? If not, what's the best way to get this page into a format that can be "included"? (Turn it into a functioning ASP page, perhaps?)

Thanks.
Janet


From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 13:54:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php settings for DB access
In-Reply-To: <3D5AA588.6@star-chaser.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEKPDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

from now on I will definately be doing this :)

Andrew
Andrew Maynes wrote:
> sorry I meant .inc files with user name and passwords included.  I did a
search
> last night and I came a cross at least 5 files with this type of information,
I
> was shocked.
>
> Andrew
   Rename them .inc.php  and change them to include("bla.inc.php"); on
the pages that include them or put them in a protected directory.
Then put the path in include("/path/to/bla.inc"); on the pages that use
them.

Gary

--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today



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From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Wed Aug 14 13:58:00 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Wed Aug 14 13:58:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] "Include" an HTML page?
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A132@fsjubj09>

>Is there any way to write an "include"-type statement (or something that
will achieve the same purpose) for an HTML page so >I don't have to update
this page three different times when I make my daily changes? If not, what's
the best way to get this >page into a format that can be "included"? (Turn
it into a functioning ASP page, perhaps?)

Yep.

	<!--#include file="calendar.html"-->
	or
	<!--#include virtual="/calendar.html"-->

More info: http://www.wdvl.com/Authoring/SSI/

HTH,
-dave


From Anthony at Baratta.com  Wed Aug 14 14:00:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Wed Aug 14 14:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] "Include" an HTML page?
In-Reply-To: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE5D37A1@gdmp03.desmoinesmet
 ro.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020814115536.02858af8@baratta.com>

At 11:48 AM 8/14/2002, Janet Green wrote:
>I have a calendar of events page that needs to appear in several different
>places - on our intranet, on a "member services" page of our site, and in
>the general "about us/events" section of our main site. It's an HTML page.
>The info is the same in all three areas, and the formatting can remain the
>same as far as text treatment, but the stuff surrounding it is different
>each time. Is there any way to write an "include"-type statement (or
>something that will achieve the same purpose) for an HTML page so I don't
>have to update this page three different times when I make my daily
>changes? If not, what's the best way to get this page into a format that
>can be "included"? (Turn it into a functioning ASP page, perhaps?)

Basically you need to chop up the calendar page so that the calendar
content is isolated in one file, like calendar.ssi. Then call it with an
SSI command on the target page where you want the content to appear...

         <!-- #include virtual="/path/to/file/calendar.ssi" -->

You'll have add the shtml or asp extension to the target page in order for
the SSI directive to be used.You can force IIS to parse HTML as sHTML or
ASP. That would save you renaming your pages.

That's about it.
--
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From kstevens89 at comcast.net  Wed Aug 14 14:00:18 2002
From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens)
Date: Wed Aug 14 14:00:18 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <20020814183551.73738.qmail@web13504.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020814183551.73738.qmail@web13504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b0ab9805807872a@[68.35.112.212]>

I will burst the bubble and vote for Eudora!  It has outlook beaten
by a mile even 2000.  http://www.eudora.com.  24 million users not
forced by the OS to use it must know something real about it.  3
flavors, light(no support), sponsored(some support, little add) and
paid(paid full support no add).

At 11:35 AM -0700 8/14/02, jon steele wrote:
>I'm afraid I will have to burst the Mozilla bubble and vote for
>Outlook 2000 (not the Express) ;).
>I don't know if it's a fair competition with Outlook's price tag...
>

--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens

"Warning,
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons.
They will make you crunchy and eat you with ketchup."
-Unknown Author


From JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com  Wed Aug 14 14:01:01 2002
From: JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com (Janet Green)
Date: Wed Aug 14 14:01:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] "Include" an HTML page?
Message-ID: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FEA4E2DB@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com>

>>><!--#include file="calendar.html"--><<<

This one I tried and it didn't work.

>>><!--#include virtual="/calendar.html"--><<<

This one I'm going to try now. THanks.
J.



From cd-ml at aardvark.net.au  Wed Aug 14 14:02:01 2002
From: cd-ml at aardvark.net.au (Craig)
Date: Wed Aug 14 14:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Passing &amp; thru a form using ASP
References: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJGECJCKAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <003f01c243c4$e6aa59d0$370302c0@max1>

That's just it, if you view-source you don't see the '&amp;'  just the '&'.

Craig.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Blessing" <webguy at mail.rit.edu>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 4:20 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] Passing &amp; thru a form using ASP


> Craig, are you checking the submitted data via a response.write?  If so,
> your browser will interpret &amp; as just the "&" character.  If you view
> the source you should see "&amp;".
>
> Chris Blessing
> webguy at mail.rit.edu
> http://www.330i.net
>
> > note: remove the first dot after <
> >
> > <.!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
> > <.html>
> > <.head>
> > <.title>Untitled Document<./title>
> > <.meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
> > <./head>
> >
> > <.body>
> > <.form action="test2.asp" method="post">
> > <.input type="text" value="&amp;" name="testtext">
> > <.input type="submit" value="submit">
> > <./form>
> > <%=request.form("testtext")%>
> > <./body>
> > <./html>
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Craig.
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov  Wed Aug 14 14:02:09 2002
From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S)
Date: Wed Aug 14 14:02:09 2002
Subject: [thelist] "Include" an HTML page?
Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C45E@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> Yep.
>
>	<!--#include file="calendar.html"-->
>	or
>	<!--#include virtual="/calendar.html"-->
>
> More info: http://www.wdvl.com/Authoring/SSI/

Keep in mind that this only will work if the web server is configured to
include the file.

Josh


From hershelr at netvision.net.il  Wed Aug 14 14:08:00 2002
From: hershelr at netvision.net.il (Hershel Robinson)
Date: Wed Aug 14 14:08:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] great web tool (was death of garagesite)
In-Reply-To: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A131@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <3D5AD39E.6528.198703B@localhost>

> >Wow, let me give a big +1 for this tool. I just installed it and this
> >thing is great. Lots of really helpful stuff, and free to boot.
>
> > http://www.iconico.com/webtool/.

Agreed it's a fabulous tool.  While we're on the subject, perhaps not
everyone is familiar with DOMBrowser, it's an amazing tool that
allows you to explore and edit the entire DOM object tree of an HTML
page.  A *must* for serious JavaScript programmers.

http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/dombrowser

(Check out the weird temporary license too--very interesting.)

Hershel


From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Wed Aug 14 14:19:01 2002
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Wed Aug 14 14:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Passing &amp; thru a form using ASP
In-Reply-To: <003f01c243c4$e6aa59d0$370302c0@max1>
Message-ID: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJIECLCKAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

Perhaps like others have suggested it is being parsed by the browser upon
form submission into the real character equiv.  That would be why the
"&amp;amp;" would work, since you're added the "&" to the "amp;".  That's my
best guess anyhow! :)

HTH!

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Craig
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 3:00 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Passing &amp; thru a form using ASP
>
>
> That's just it, if you view-source you don't see the '&amp;'
> just the '&'.
>
> Craig.
>
> -



From K_HEYTINK at winebow.com  Wed Aug 14 14:27:01 2002
From: K_HEYTINK at winebow.com (Kathleen Heytink)
Date: Wed Aug 14 14:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
Message-ID: <06154D6549B7D5119FC100508BB02DED27AC87@nj10-exchange.winebow.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kid Stevens [mailto:kstevens89 at comcast.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 2:59 PM

> I will burst the bubble and vote for Eudora!  It has outlook beaten
> by a mile even 2000.  http://www.eudora.com.

1+ on Eudora.

I'm still using version 3.x (not sure of the release #).  Been using it for
many years, through 3 operating system upgrades (Win 58, 98 and now 2000)
and it still works like a champ!

I've considering getting the upgrade, but the old one has every feature I
want.  IMO its sort feature runs rings around the Outlook one.   It also
dumps all the attachments in a separate folder, so I can double check them
for viruses.  Makes managing the attachments easier as well.  All in one
place for easy sorting.

Doesn't have a calendar or task function, but I'm not interested in having
that as a part of my e-mail program.

And no - I don't work for Qualcomm.

<tip type="Homesite">
There is a handy feature that will calculate the weight of a document. It
lists the size of the HTML file and all images, but not linked or imported
CSS (maybe the newest version does - I'm using 4.5.2).  It also gives you an
approximate download time at several modem speeds - not exact, by any means,
but not a bad guideline.

To access  - Tools > document weight
</tip>

-- Kath Heytink
Web Designer
Winebow, Inc
www.winebow.com --


From kristina at kfx-design.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 14:30:00 2002
From: kristina at kfx-design.co.uk (~kristina)
Date: Wed Aug 14 14:30:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <3D5ABFA2.15730.14A5CFA@localhost>
References: <3D5ABFA2.15730.14A5CFA@localhost>
Message-ID: <7214553171.20020814202911@kfx-design.co.uk>

on Wednesday, August 14, 2002, 7:37:54 PM, Hershel declared:

<:>
> Anyone have any recommendations as to a full-featured, somewhat
> secure Win 2K email client?
<:>
  The bat! is king

  ;o)

--
bfn
~kristina

kristina at kfx-design.co.uk
http://kfx-design.co.uk/




From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 14 14:45:01 2002
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Wed Aug 14 14:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <a05111b0ab9805807872a@[68.35.112.212]>
Message-ID: <20020814194426.32036.qmail@web13503.mail.yahoo.com>

Never personally used Eudora but have heard good things.

Anything specific you like about it over Outlook 2k?

--- Kid Stevens <kstevens89 at comcast.net> wrote:
> I will burst the bubble and vote for Eudora!  It has outlook beaten
> by a mile even 2000.  http://www.eudora.com.  24 million users not
> forced by the OS to use it must know something real about it.  3
> flavors, light(no support), sponsored(some support, little add) and
> paid(paid full support no add).


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Wed Aug 14 14:47:01 2002
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Wed Aug 14 14:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] access pop3 - perl script
References: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKACEHGCKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <0a7201c243cb$16c0c770$c703c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

Thanks for the tips Anne and Rich -
I've started experimenting...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Gray" <richardgray at onetel.co.uk>
Hi Richard
I'm sure you'll find some examples at http://hotscripts.com
HTH



From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Wed Aug 14 14:55:01 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Wed Aug 14 14:55:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] "Include" an HTML page?
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A133@fsjubj09>

>>>><!--#include file="calendar.html"--><<<
>
>This one I tried and it didn't work.
>
>>>><!--#include virtual="/calendar.html"--><<<
>
>This one I'm going to try now. THanks.

Well, be sure to read the documentation on SSIs as well as your specific
server configuration first. Since I just made up filenames and didn't add
any paths, I'm 99.999% certain the above will not work "as-is" on your site.
You need to read the docs and write the code that works for your
installation.

Again, see:  http://www.wdvl.com/Authoring/SSI/

-dave


From roselli at earthlink.net  Wed Aug 14 14:58:01 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Wed Aug 14 14:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] "Include" an HTML page?
In-Reply-To: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE5D37A1@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com>
Message-ID: <200208141957.g7EJvAB4005292@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Janet Green" <JGreen at desmoinesmetro.com>
[...]
> surrounding it is different each time. Is there any way to write an
> "include"-type statement (or something that will achieve the same
> purpose) for an HTML page so I don't have to update this page three
> different times when I make my daily changes? If not, what's the best
> way to get this page into a format that can be "included"? (Turn it
> into a functioning ASP page, perhaps?)

if you are going to make it into an ASP page, then here is the
syntax you need to do that...

Including Files in ASP
http://evolt.org/ASP_Includes


--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035


From kstevens89 at comcast.net  Wed Aug 14 14:59:01 2002
From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens)
Date: Wed Aug 14 14:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] "Include" an HTML page?
In-Reply-To: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE5D37A1@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com>
References: <7245DCF24646B944B6BE516574FA54FE5D37A1@gdmp03.desmoinesmetro.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b0db98062b60aa5@[68.35.112.212]>

Add an IFRAME to each place you want thee calender to appear.  Set
the height and width attribute for your calender.  Make a directory
if you want, say thecalender.  Everytime the calender needs a change
drop the new calender into there with the same name.  The page on
refresh or load will grab the new calender.

You can add class="calend" for example to effect the look and feel of
the calender in the iframe

example:
<iframe src="file:///Nwyvre/ff8_walk.html" width="480" height="600"
marginwidth="5" marginheight="5" scrolling="no" align="top"></iframe>


At 1:48 PM -0500 8/14/02, Janet Green wrote:
>I have a calendar of events page that needs to appear in several
>different places - on our intranet, on a "member services" page of
>our site, and in the general "about us/events" section of our main
>site. It's an HTML page. The info is the same in all three areas,
>and the formatting can remain the same as far as text treatment, but
>the stuff surrounding it is different each time. Is there any way to
>write an "include"-type statement (or something that will achieve
>the same purpose) for an HTML page so I don't have to update this
>page three different times when I make my daily changes? If not,
>what's the best way to get this page into a format that can be
>"included"? (Turn it into a functioning ASP page, perhaps?)

--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens

"Warning,
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons.
They will make you crunchy and eat you with ketchup."
-Unknown Author


From ebennett at ecasd.k12.wi.us  Wed Aug 14 15:01:02 2002
From: ebennett at ecasd.k12.wi.us (Erik Bennett)
Date: Wed Aug 14 15:01:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] Domain Names...
Message-ID: <000c01c243cc$af25bab0$3d0010ac@coawg110c01>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
I have an interesting query, and wonder if anyone on here has an answer for
me. :-)

I am the webmaster for about 20 schools, including the administration
office. Until we unified under one domain (www.ecasd.k12.wi.us) we had all
of the email and web going to separate addresses for the schools (i.e.
www.north.ecasd.k12.wi.us). Now everything is under one umbrella (except
individual pages) and there is a web domain out there
(www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us - the address for the administration building)
that only points to www.ecasd.k12.wi.us. I'm still seeing over 1100 requests
a day for that address, and we want to get rid of it eventually. Is there a
way for me to catch any requests going into www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us and
give them a page that says 'hey... our address has changed... bookmark the
new one, this one will expire in 30 days' or something like that?

I've heard (maybe) that there's a way to do this with apache. We,
unfortunately, are running IIS though. Any ideas? No idea is too much, I
have full access to the servers, and we tend to us ASP for any scripting.

Also, I wonder, would it just be easier to set it up on a site with nothing
in it and make the 404 custom page the redirect? Anyway... I'm curious to
see what people have to say! Thanks in advance!

Erik
------------------------------------------------------

      Erik Bennett
      ECASD Webmaster  Network Accounts
      ebennett at ecasd.k12.wi.us accounts at ecasd.k12.wi.us
      http://www.ecasd.k12.wi.us
http://www.ecasd.k12.wi.us/webmaster/accounts

      500 Main Street
      Eau Claire, WI 54701
     Phone:  715-839-6290 x551
      Fax:    715-833-3481


--



From kstevens89 at comcast.net  Wed Aug 14 15:08:01 2002
From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens)
Date: Wed Aug 14 15:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <06154D6549B7D5119FC100508BB02DED27AC87@nj10-exchange.winebow.com>
References: <06154D6549B7D5119FC100508BB02DED27AC87@nj10-exchange.winebow.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b0eb98066ed0869@[68.35.112.212]>

Right on, the new version has so many features above you version and
upgrading is flawless you don't have to even delete the old version
just in case.

I have 5 mail accounts normally and then two as security admin for 2
companies, 2 as webmaster and postmaster for a site and server I am
doing.  It expands with my needs and needs no add ons.  It also can
be as simple as a beginner would need with no effort.

I have some spam filters programmed plus I send email to many
different boxes depending on who sent it or something in the subject
or body that I can trigger a filter on

At 3:22 PM -0400 8/14/02, Kathleen Heytink wrote:
>
>1+ on Eudora.
>
>I'm still using version 3.x (not sure of the release #).  Been using it for
>many years, through 3 operating system upgrades (Win 58, 98 and now 2000)
>and it still works like a champ!
>
>I've considering getting the upgrade, but the old one has every feature I
>want.  IMO its sort feature runs rings around the Outlook one.   It also
>dumps all the attachments in a separate folder, so I can double check them
>for viruses.  Makes managing the attachments easier as well.  All in one
>place for easy sorting.

--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens

"Warning,
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons.
They will make you crunchy and eat you with ketchup."
-Unknown Author


From kalos at carolina.rr.com  Wed Aug 14 15:32:01 2002
From: kalos at carolina.rr.com (Benjamin)
Date: Wed Aug 14 15:32:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re:A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <20020814200059.75BD93A72@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020814161858.00a9dc90@pop-server.carolina.rr.com>

At 03:00 PM 8/14/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>I as well would like to move from Outlook - but does Mozilla Mail (or
>any of the other suggestions) have a decent Contact DB/Calendar program
>as well?


That's my main gripe with most conceptions of email clients.  First being
that anything over 2 megs should never be sent as an attachment
however*.  Outlook is more of an Office Management client than an email
client given the aforementioned calendar/contact list.

I've used Eudora for years as an email client and had no problems.

If you truly need all of the office integration utilities and don't like
the macro trojans/viruses that the MS product has I recommend Open Office
at http://www.openoffice.org/ .

* Having worked at an ISP during the Pam & Tommy Lee video hayday I've
throttled anyone attempting to use email for file transfer. Normal users I
have them ftp it to their ISP's provided website and corporate users post
it to an intranet.



From liss at frameshift.com  Wed Aug 14 15:43:01 2002
From: liss at frameshift.com (Melissa Phelps Firestone)
Date: Wed Aug 14 15:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Netscape rendering issues
Message-ID: <B98038E9.199BD%liss@frameshift.com>

I have a page that displays perfectly in IE (5+), decently enough (for now)
in NS4.7, and like utter garbage in NS6. It's mostly validated XHTML 1.0.

The page is at http://66.247.98.6/mBLAST/index.html

The problem seems to be that Netscape is putting in spaces and otherwise
resizing page elements at its own whim, and nothing that we do can change
it. (For example, there's a break within the logo in the top left and
another below the tagline).

We've run into this on other pages when we wanted to put different parts of
an image in separate table cells, but we've thus far been able to work
around it by combining images. We have some designs, though, where that
won't work. And we're stumped.

I've had three people pounding at this page all day long, and none of us has
been able to find a solution yet. Since we're all at the "insane" point,
we're beginning to wonder if there is no solution!

Thanks for any help you can give!
--Liss



From agau at Softchoice.com  Wed Aug 14 15:57:01 2002
From: agau at Softchoice.com (Andre Gaulin)
Date: Wed Aug 14 15:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Netscape rendering issues
Message-ID: <9775B40AA87F7543A8538BAF206E0F357931A7@TORMAIL01.softchoice.com>

Try putting all your lines of code on one line... meaning, take out any
extra line breaks.  Keep your open and close tag on the same line and it
should help... NS is weird like that

Andre
________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: Melissa Phelps Firestone [mailto:liss at frameshift.com]
Sent: August 14, 2002 4:42 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Netscape rendering issues

I have a page that displays perfectly in IE (5+), decently enough (for
now)
in NS4.7, and like utter garbage in NS6. It's mostly validated XHTML
1.0.

The page is at http://66.247.98.6/mBLAST/index.html

The problem seems to be that Netscape is putting in spaces and otherwise
resizing page elements at its own whim, and nothing that we do can
change
it. (For example, there's a break within the logo in the top left and
another below the tagline).

We've run into this on other pages when we wanted to put different parts
of
an image in separate table cells, but we've thus far been able to work
around it by combining images. We have some designs, though, where that
won't work. And we're stumped.

I've had three people pounding at this page all day long, and none of us
has
been able to find a solution yet. Since we're all at the "insane" point,
we're beginning to wonder if there is no solution!

Thanks for any help you can give!
--Liss

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 14 16:11:01 2002
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Wed Aug 14 16:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] event handlers through CSS
Message-ID: <20020814210955.77627.qmail@web13509.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello

I think I read somewhere that you could integrate your event handlers through CSS. Can this be
done?

So instead of:

<td class="myClass" onmouseover="this()" onmouseout="that()">a</td>
<td class="myClass" onmouseover="this()" onmouseout="that()">b</td>

I could specifiy the onmouse events in the head tag:

.myClass {
   ??what to do??
   onmouseover = this()
   onmouseout  = that()
   ??what to do??

}

and then just use

<td class="myClass">a</td>
<td class="myClass">b</td>

for my table.

Should be compatible in DOM browsers (IE 5+, NS6+).

jon

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From jeff at members.evolt.org  Wed Aug 14 16:11:10 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Wed Aug 14 16:11:10 2002
Subject: [thelist] Passing &amp; thru a form using ASP
In-Reply-To: <002701c243c0$23d0e630$370302c0@max1>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPOEJOGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

craig,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Craig
>
> Hi, does anyone know why the ASP code below doesn't
> pass the string '&amp;' thru when submitting the form.
> Even though '&amp;' is the value for the text field,
> only '&' gets submitted
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

this is not a server-side problem, but a problem with how browsers treat encoded characters in form elements.  take a look at this to see the problem and the solution:

<http://members.evolt.org/jeff/code/character_converting_textarea.cfm>

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/





From jeff at members.evolt.org  Wed Aug 14 16:18:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Wed Aug 14 16:18:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <06154D6549B7D5119FC100508BB02DED27AC87@nj10-exchange.winebow.com>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPIEJPGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Kathleen Heytink
>
> 1+ on Eudora.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

-1 to eudora here.

i used it when i had a problem with outlook and found it *highly* annoying for the way i work.  it's signature "feature" is probably the most annoying aspect of the application.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> IMO its sort feature runs rings around the Outlook one.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

That it may, but it can't handle the volume of email that outlook can.  i tried importing my outlook pst file and it puked partway through it every time.

that's not really an issue if you're not bringing any of your old mail across, but for me it's huge.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> It also dumps all the attachments in a separate folder,
> so I can double check them for viruses.  Makes managing
> the attachments easier as well.  All in one place for
> easy sorting.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

i find this aspect of eudora very difficult to use.  i like having the attachments with the message.  i don't have to look at a folder full of attachments and try to figure out which email message a particular attachment belongs to.  i dislike that attachment names are changed or a file by the same name is overwritten (can't recall which happens) if another file by the same name is already in the attachments directory.  if i want my attachments separate, i'll save them out of the email to a spot on my harddrive, but please, please, please don't do it for me.

my 2?,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From ethanol at mathlab.sunysb.edu  Wed Aug 14 17:25:01 2002
From: ethanol at mathlab.sunysb.edu (Sean G.)
Date: Wed Aug 14 17:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Looking for info on units of measurement
In-Reply-To: <B980443A.5012%mark@mountain.ch>
Message-ID: <PBEAKGFHGHNAHBAPLFODKEHNCAAA.ethanol@mathlab.sunysb.edu>

Howdy,

A Dictionary of Units of Measurement <http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/>


US customary & metric conversions for unit measurements by
SCIENCE MADE SIMPLE, INC <http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/conversions.html>

HTH,

Sean G.

<tip>
If you want a reply off-list, include your email address in the message =)

</tip>

>-----Original Message-----
>Does anyone know where I can find a website which details the units of
>measurement (miles/feet or metres) in different countries of the world?
>
>Please reply off-list, thanks.
>



From ethanol at mathlab.sunysb.edu  Wed Aug 14 17:25:10 2002
From: ethanol at mathlab.sunysb.edu (Sean G.)
Date: Wed Aug 14 17:25:10 2002
Subject: [thelist] ActiveX FTP Object
In-Reply-To: <03c301c24341$ff138600$0200a8c0@client1>
Message-ID: <PBEAKGFHGHNAHBAPLFODMEHNCAAA.ethanol@mathlab.sunysb.edu>

Howdy,

I haven't been following this thread too closely, and I'm not generally a BMOA
(big man on ActiveX) so I may be way off base (and if I am, all flames to
bill.g at microsoft.com please), but...

1) Mabry Software's "FTP ActiveX Control and COM Object"
<http://www.mabry.com/ftpx/index.htm> might be the ticket.  It's not free nor
Free, though they do have "complete, fully functional samples"
<http://www.mabry.com/proddown.htm>

B) If you can run a command line command from your application, you might get
some use from "ftp -i -s:filename"  The -i switch will turn off prompts (i.e.,
"Do you want to download this file(y/n)"), and the file is just text with each
command, including login and password, that you want to send just as you would
type them in a live session.  While I believe that file must be plain text, you
can have it generated dynamically at run time.

HTH,

Sean G.





>-----Original Message-----
>> > Does anybody know of an FTP object that will allow for multiple GETs to
>be
>> > performed in realtime with a single connection?  I've looked at some of
>the
>> > Freeware utilities that get files one at a time, but they incur an
>overhead
>> > when the connection is created.
>>
>> By design, you cannot perform multiple simultaneous GETs by FTP.  The
>> FTP protocol does not support this behavior.  Multiple concurrent GETS
>> require one connection each.
>
>It's probably my request wasn't necessarily very well stated.  I'm trying to
>download a large number of files.  The utilities I've found go through the
>entire process for every file.  That is: connect, authenticate, change
>directory, then download.  I'm looking for a utility that will simulate the
>following FTP commands:
>
>ftp www.domain.com
>user foo
>pass bar
>"cd myfolder"
>"get file1"
>"get file2"
>"get file3"
>...etc...
>quit
>



From info at windyhilldesign.com  Wed Aug 14 17:51:01 2002
From: info at windyhilldesign.com (Heather Quinn)
Date: Wed Aug 14 17:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Netscape rendering issues
References: <B98038E9.199BD%liss@frameshift.com>
Message-ID: <3D5ADF08.4080707@windyhilldesign.com>

Netscape is applying a default font size within your TD's.  You can test
this  by doing Ctrl+ or Ctrl- to up- or down-size the page's fonts:
You'll see that as you increase the font sizes, the space under your
logo will increase, too, and as you decrease the page's fonts, the extra
space will reduce and eventually disappear.

If you create a style class with a small font and apply it to TD's
containing images, your problem should be solved.

During the past year, I've been setting up style sheets with a default
TD font size (and color) appropriate for displaying alt texts in
NN6+/Mozilla, for those times when images don't load.  I use an 8-point
font.  While my main purpose in doing this was to make sure that alt
text's would be readable yet not break the layout if images didn't load,
I discovered there was an added bonus, in that no extra space seems to
be created within TD's containing images.  Also, supplying a default
size to TD also seems to remove TD from the font up-size/down-size loop
in NN6+/Mozilla, as long as there's no visible text in the table cell --
thus the graphical portion of the layout doesn't break as the page
rerenders when users change the font size with Ctrl+ or Ctrl-.

HTH

Melissa Phelps Firestone wrote:

>I have a page that displays perfectly in IE (5+), decently enough (for now)in NS4.7, and like utter garbage in NS6. It's mostly validated XHTML 1.0.
>
>The page is at http://66.247.98.6/mBLAST/index.html
>
>The problem seems to be that Netscape is putting in spaces and otherwise resizing page elements at its own whim, and nothing that we do can change it. (For example, there's a break within the logo in the top left and another below the tagline)...
>
>Thanks for any help you can give!
>--Liss
>
>
>

--
Cheers,

Heather Quinn
info at windyhilldesign.com
http://www.windyhilldesign.com





From stem at stemofficial.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 18:00:01 2002
From: stem at stemofficial.co.uk (Dave Stevens)
Date: Wed Aug 14 18:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Styling form objects with CSS
Message-ID: <002101c243e6$2e475100$b02de150@brodie>

Hi all,

Is it possible to style the button with the arrow on it in a select box in a
form?

If so, how?

example:
http://www.stemofficial.co.uk/list/1/

Cheers,
Dave Stevens
[e : ds at stemofficial.co.uk]
[w: http://www.stemofficial.co.uk]




From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 14 18:23:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Wed Aug 14 18:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Styling form objects with CSS
In-Reply-To: <002101c243e6$2e475100$b02de150@brodie>
Message-ID: <20020814232145.25552.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Dave Stevens <stem at stemofficial.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Is it possible to style the button with the arrow on it in a select
> box in a
> form?
>
> If so, how?
>
> example:
> http://www.stemofficial.co.uk/list/1/

Dave, I'm going to guess that you don't care that your example is in
XP - because non-xp gui does not render like that. (I do like it
nicer though.) Anyway, I have tried this before and as far as my
tests went, I was not successful in coloring that part of the drop. I
believe its rendered by the OS. (thus, the XP change.)

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From cparker at swatgear.com  Wed Aug 14 18:32:00 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Wed Aug 14 18:32:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] NTWRK ADMNSTRTN: [OT] a desperate plea to all you network administrators, i need your advice!
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE03307C@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

hi.

i have a problem. i'd like to know what all the network administrators
out there do. how many 1 man teams are there on this list besides
myself? what do you do on a daily basis? how do you keep up with
everything? how do you schedule your day and how do you apportion your
time (i.e. time management.) i'm a young guy with little experience and
i need to get organized and learn some things from the more experienced
players here.

let me tell you what i do here at work...

* maintain network
    * set up new computers
    * keep servers patched and up to date
    * monitor our backups
    * virus stuff
    * exchange server
    * domain controller
    * storage
* website(s)
    * website1.com
        * add/delete products
        * create pages
    * website2.com
        * add/delete products
        * create pages
* i'm tech support for about 20 people
* i also get any other job/assignment that has to do with technology.


referring back to the questions i gave above, what duties do you have
and how does an average day/week for you run? how many hours a week do
you work? 40? 50? 60? what time do you get to work and what time do you
leave?

any advice/recommendations/flames/etc. are welcome. i need to some input
from someone other than myself.


thanks a lot!!
chris.

p.s. if need be, just reply to my email address instead of the list.


From stem at stemofficial.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 18:36:01 2002
From: stem at stemofficial.co.uk (Dave Stevens)
Date: Wed Aug 14 18:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Styling form objects with CSS
References: <20020814232145.25552.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003b01c243eb$48f81a70$b02de150@brodie>

Yea, I feared as much.

Never mind, thanks anyway.

Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Dell'Aringa" <pixelmech at yahoo.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Styling form objects with CSS


> --- Dave Stevens <stem at stemofficial.co.uk> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Is it possible to style the button with the arrow on it in a select
> > box in a
> > form?
> >
> > If so, how?
> >
> > example:
> > http://www.stemofficial.co.uk/list/1/
>
> Dave, I'm going to guess that you don't care that your example is in
> XP - because non-xp gui does not render like that. (I do like it
> nicer though.) Anyway, I have tried this before and as far as my
> tests went, I was not successful in coloring that part of the drop. I
> believe its rendered by the OS. (thus, the XP change.)
>
> Tom
>
> =====
> var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();
>
> http://www.pixelmech.com/
> http://www.maccaws.com/
> [Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
> http://www.hotjobs.com
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 14 18:50:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Wed Aug 14 18:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] NTWRK ADMNSTRTN: [OT] a desperate plea to all you network administrators, i need your advice!
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE03307C@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <20020814234934.29238.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>

#1. Chris, ask for more money...holy cow!

--- "Chris W. Parker" <cparker at swatgear.com> wrote:
> hi.
>
> i have a problem. i'd like to know what all the network
> administrators<snip>

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From shaggy at vip.bg  Wed Aug 14 18:56:01 2002
From: shaggy at vip.bg (Martin Tsachev)
Date: Wed Aug 14 18:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] site critique/check
Message-ID: <200208150254.42721.shaggy@vip.bg>

Hello evolters,

I would like to hear what you think about this site:
http://martin.f2o.org

Any feedback is welcome.
--
Martin Tsachev
Web developer

http://martin.f2o.org



From cparker at swatgear.com  Wed Aug 14 18:59:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Wed Aug 14 18:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] NTWRK ADMNSTRTN: [OT] a desperate plea to all you network administrators, i need your advice!
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE078342@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

well ok recently i did get a raise (about 2 months ago). but the reason
i'm writing this post is because (recently, like last week) bossman has
come to the near conclusion that i am possibly not "cost effective".
therefore my job is almost on the line. he doesn't want to fire me
because so he's given me the opportunity to try and restructure my job
position and maybe move into the marketing department.

all the things i listed are not daily job duties, however some of them
are. and also, if anything goes wrong with any of those, i'm the one
that gets to fix it.

seeing as how i haven't been doing this very long (almost 2 years with
almost no mentoring) and am spread really thing i am not able to focus
on one subject for very long and thus my knowledge is most areas is more
than some people, but definitely not at any level where i could go to
another company and say "here is what i can do! give me a job!"

please anyone and everyone chime in with your .02!


chris.

p.s. i'm really confused by the whole thing so forgive me if this post
is difficult to follow.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Dell'Aringa [mailto:pixelmech at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 4:50 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] NTWRK ADMNSTRTN: [OT] a desperate plea
> to all you
> network administrators, i need your advice!
>
>
> #1. Chris, ask for more money...holy cow!
>
> --- "Chris W. Parker" <cparker at swatgear.com> wrote:
> > hi.
> >
> > i have a problem. i'd like to know what all the network
> > administrators<snip>
>
> =====
> var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();
>
> http://www.pixelmech.com/
> http://www.maccaws.com/
> [Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
> http://www.hotjobs.com
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 14 19:03:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Wed Aug 14 19:03:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] site critique/check
In-Reply-To: <200208150254.42721.shaggy@vip.bg>
Message-ID: <20020815000238.29414.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>

Martin,

Looks good on PC IE5.5. You do have the wierd extended dashed lines
thing going on on some sides, I've seen this before but don't know
how to fix it. You get it when you have a box with a dashed line,
then you have a box inside -- but that's all I know, I don't know
what causes it.

Tom


--- Martin Tsachev <shaggy at vip.bg> wrote:
> Hello evolters,
>
> I would like to hear what you think about this site:
> http://martin.f2o.org


=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From wes at pmason.karoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 19:09:01 2002
From: wes at pmason.karoo.co.uk (**1st Vamp**)
Date: Wed Aug 14 19:09:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <20020814184612.04a6cefe.evolt@david.us-lot.org>
References: <3D5ABFA2.15730.14A5CFA@localhost>
 <20020814184612.04a6cefe.evolt@david.us-lot.org>
Message-ID: <153212249238.20020815010755@pmason.karoo.co.uk>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: MD5

I can testify that The Bat! is a superb e-mail client. Using it right now to read thelist posts.
Remember of course its only as good as the user using it (/me remembering his mispost to the list a while
back, which he still needs to post a tip for but just hasn't had anything useful to contribute).

It includes great filtering options, such as using perl compatible regex's, and a few other hundred powerful
features that it would be a waste of my time (and not my job as I don't sell the damn thing) to list here.

In  short: good e-mail client. ;)

- - Vamp

Wednesday, August 14, 2002, 6:46:12 PM, David Dorward wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:37:54 +0200
> Hershel Robinson <hershelr at netvision.net.il> wrote:

>> I have just had the pleasure (sic) of rebuilding my Win 2K box from
>> scratch after a little virus ate the previous system.  I am now
>> prepared to give up Outlook Express (which I actually like) and try
>> another email client.  I have Pegasus now but so far I don't like it
>> so much.
>>
>> Anyone have any recommendations as to a full-featured, somewhat
>> secure Win 2K email client?

> I've heard good things about The Bat: http://www.ritlabs.com/the_bat/


> --
> David Dorward                                   http://david.us-lot.org/
> HTML email is a bit like using coloured paper and glitter ink on a CV.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6

iQINAwUAPVrw3utR7En81eJTAQEaIA+5AVMig1QwfqnwZCBdhmnVTEfVyPameVDo
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Wed Aug 14 19:15:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Wed Aug 14 19:15:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] NTWRK ADMNSTRTN: [OT] a desperate plea to all
  you network administrators, i need your advice!
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE03307C@ati-ex-01.ati.local
 >
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020814165519.028ba2a8@baratta.com>

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer here for a 10 person company. This includes
internal and external co-lo/client machines as well as coding web solutions
that the design teams come up with.

The biggest solution to going crazy is planning your time. And planning
time for a crisis. ;-)

You need to make sure that you plan for maintenance to all the machines
under your care. Otherwise a machine will fail and it could have been
noticed if you were checking them all out regularly.

Also make sure that people schedule with you to get your time. Minimize the
"this will take just a second" stuff. There is time for that, but stick to
your schedule as much as possible.

Lastly when making your schedule make sure you prioritize between Important
and Emergency

		Emergency		Non-Emergency

Important	These Come First	Second Tier


Not Important	Second Tier		Third Tier

(Read a few of the Covey Books, 7 Habits, Putting First Things First.)

You don't have to be a slave to your schedule - maybe you just need to plan
on a week to week basis. But if you don't fill up your schedule with the
important things, the un-important things creep in and take over.
--
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From shaggy at vip.bg  Wed Aug 14 19:17:01 2002
From: shaggy at vip.bg (Martin Tsachev)
Date: Wed Aug 14 19:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] site critique/check
In-Reply-To: <20020815000238.29414.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020815000238.29414.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200208150314.59611.shaggy@vip.bg>

On Thu August 15 2002 3:02 am, Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
> Martin,
>
> Looks good on PC IE5.5. You do have the wierd extended dashed lines
> thing going on on some sides, I've seen this before but don't know
> how to fix it. You get it when you have a box with a dashed line,
> then you have a box inside -- but that's all I know, I don't know
> what causes it.

Thanks for the review Tom,

I don't know what you're talking about, can you provide a screenshot or
something (PNG would do)?

> --- Martin Tsachev <shaggy at vip.bg> wrote:
> > Hello evolters,
> >
> > I would like to hear what you think about this site:
> > http://martin.f2o.org

--
Martin Tsachev
Web developer

http://martin.f2o.org



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 14 19:22:00 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Wed Aug 14 19:22:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] site critique/check
In-Reply-To: <200208150314.59611.shaggy@vip.bg>
Message-ID: <20020815002131.72775.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Martin Tsachev <shaggy at vip.bg> wrote:
> On Thu August 15 2002 3:02 am, Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
> > Martin,
> >
> > Looks good on PC IE5.5. You do have the wierd extended dashed
> lines
> > thing going on on some sides, I've seen this before but don't
> know
> > how to fix it. You get it when you have a box with a dashed line,
> > then you have a box inside -- but that's all I know, I don't know
> > what causes it.
>
> Thanks for the review Tom,
>
> I don't know what you're talking about, can you provide a
> screenshot or
> something (PNG would do)?

Well, tried to take a screen shot of it - and get this - the screen
shot looks FINE. Crazy. Picture it as that some of the dashes get
elongated vertically. Maybe its an IE/Win2k thing, I don't know.
Anyway, I didn't use dashes for around boxes for this very reason. It
must be a funky display thing, since the screenshot looked
fine..maybe somebody else knows what I am talking about...

Tom


=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From shaggy at vip.bg  Wed Aug 14 19:22:17 2002
From: shaggy at vip.bg (Martin Tsachev)
Date: Wed Aug 14 19:22:17 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <153212249238.20020815010755@pmason.karoo.co.uk>
References: <3D5ABFA2.15730.14A5CFA@localhost> <20020814184612.04a6cefe.evolt@david.us-lot.org> <153212249238.20020815010755@pmason.karoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200208150320.24805.shaggy@vip.bg>

On Thu August 15 2002 3:07 am, **1st Vamp** wrote:
> I can testify that The Bat! is a superb e-mail client. Using it right now
> to read thelist posts. Remember of course its only as good as the user
> using it (/me remembering his mispost to the list a while back, which he
> still needs to post a tip for but just hasn't had anything useful to
> contribute).
>
> It includes great filtering options, such as using perl compatible regex's,
> and a few other hundred powerful features that it would be a waste of my
> time (and not my job as I don't sell the damn thing) to list here.
>
> In  short: good e-mail client. ;)
>

Ya, The Bat is a good one. The only other email client I've find usable is
PocoMail, it's a bit strange though and freezes sometimes.

> Wednesday, August 14, 2002, 6:46:12 PM, David Dorward wrote:
> > On Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:37:54 +0200
> >
> > Hershel Robinson <hershelr at netvision.net.il> wrote:
> >> I have just had the pleasure (sic) of rebuilding my Win 2K box from
> >> scratch after a little virus ate the previous system.  I am now
> >> prepared to give up Outlook Express (which I actually like) and try
> >> another email client.  I have Pegasus now but so far I don't like it
> >> so much.
> >>
> >> Anyone have any recommendations as to a full-featured, somewhat
> >> secure Win 2K email client?
> >
> > I've heard good things about The Bat: http://www.ritlabs.com/the_bat/

--
Martin Tsachev
Web developer

http://martin.f2o.org



From framar at interlog.com  Wed Aug 14 20:27:00 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Wed Aug 14 20:27:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: Moving a struct to a session.var
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020814210658.00a9c898@mail.interlog.com>

Help! I'm stuck. I'm playing around with structs. The user has completed a
form with some basic information. I want to set it to a struct in the
session scope that I can move from page to page without losing the data.

The code below (formatted this way just to deal with wrapping) is an
example of what I'm using. I keep getting the "can't resolve parameter"
error. All my other session variables carry through.

(Tangent: How *does* one output in a cfscript?)

Many thanks.

<!--- User has submitted details, set to session.struct --->

<cflock timeout="10"
         throwontimeout="No"
         type="Exclusive"
         scope="Session">

    <cfscript>

       <cfoutput>

          ContactDetails=StructNew();

          StructInsert(ContactDetails
                       ,"EmailAddress"
                       ,"#Form.EmailAddress#");

          StructInsert(ContactDetails
                       ,"FirstName"
                       ,"#Form.FirstName#");

          StructInsert(ContactDetails
                       ,"LastName"
                       ,"#Form.LastName#");

          // Copy this struct to a session variable
          Session.ContactDetails=StructNew();

          Session.ContactDetails=StructCopy(ContactDetails);

       </cfoutput>

    </cfscript>

</cflock>


<!---

Feedback page: (Here's what you told us)
This will then be prettied up, to confirm to the user that this is what
they've entered, then later used in an email, then inserted into the db

--->


<cflock type="readonly"
         scope="session"
         timeout="10"
         throwontimeout="no">

    <cfloop collection="#Session.ContactDetails#" item="key">

       <cfoutput>
         Session.ContactDetails['#key#']:
         #Session.ContactDetails[key]#
       </cfoutput><br>

    </cfloop>
</cflock>




Frank Marion
framar at interlog.com





From kstevens89 at comcast.net  Wed Aug 14 20:31:00 2002
From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens)
Date: Wed Aug 14 20:31:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] NTWRK ADMNSTRTN: [OT] a desperate plea to all you
 network administrators, i need your advice!
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE078342@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE078342@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <a05111b19b980ae25c893@[68.35.112.212]>

Very typical, that is why I no longer work for companies.  I dropped
everything but consulting work since most companies can't figure out
why I have so much time to goof off when I am on the payroll.  You
have to show that you are a profit center and not a loss center if
you want to keep your job.  I told my last boss to stick the attitude
5 minutes before HR was to deliver the goodbye notice.  They hired me
because the last guy ripped them off and never got anything done.  I
got his year all done in 3 months.  I knew I was history.  I only get
hired to solve major problems I charge too much.

So now I remotely control servers and firewall systems and design web pages.

Every day, walk past every user, at least once and ask how the
network connection is or how their PC is doing.  In meetings, have
usage and repair full color charts and be prepared to speak about the
positive changes for 5 minutes, outside vendor solutions for 1 or 2
minutes then internal problems for 2 to 5 minutes followed by your
conclusion with an emphasis on the up time that you(don't mention
just yourself) have improved.  See ways to make low tech work not
high tech.

Case in point I walked past a server with the company president one
day.  I remarked that one of the drives was failing by the pitch the
computer was putting out.  He complained about having to spend
$11,000 on a clone server.

I told him I could rebuild the raid to match the existing hardware or
when the drive failed I could rebuild it to be more reliable for a
lot less money.  I kept my job long enough to give my son a Christmas
because I gave him a cheaper alternative.  Better than getting laid
off before Christmas.

Last time I worked for a company.

At 4:58 PM -0700 8/14/02, Chris W. Parker wrote:
>well ok recently i did get a raise (about 2 months ago). but the reason
>i'm writing this post is because (recently, like last week) bossman has
>come to the near conclusion that i am possibly not "cost effective".
>therefore my job is almost on the line. he doesn't want to fire me
>because so he's given me the opportunity to try and restructure my job
>position and maybe move into the marketing department.
>
>all the things i listed are not daily job duties, however some of them
>are. and also, if anything goes wrong with any of those, i'm the one
>that gets to fix it.
>
>seeing as how i haven't been doing this very long (almost 2 years with
>almost no mentoring) and am spread really thing i am not able to focus
>on one subject for very long and thus my knowledge is most areas is more
>than some people, but definitely not at any level where i could go to
>another company and say "here is what i can do! give me a job!"
>
>please anyone and everyone chime in with your .02!
>
>
>chris.
>
>p.s. i'm really confused by the whole thing so forgive me if this post
>is difficult to follow.

--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens

"Warning,
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons.
They will make you crunchy and eat you with ketchup."
-Unknown Author


From james at adam.com.au  Wed Aug 14 20:32:01 2002
From: james at adam.com.au (James Mclean)
Date: Wed Aug 14 20:32:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Executing local .exe from Website
Message-ID: <20020815110201.1578f017.james@adam.com.au>

All,

I am building a website where I would like the ability  to launch a
executable from the website, by clicking on a link.

I understand this could be a huge security hole, and therefore may not
be able to be done.

Basically the site is an Online Gaming community, and it has the
abilit to to view who is playing in a game, frags, time online etc.
Currently, the user can click the "connect" link, which contains a URL
such as this - hls-game://cs.adam.com.au:27015/ , and this launches an
external program called ServerQuery. While this process works well, it
requires the presence of ServerQuery, which some people do not use, i
want to see if there is a way around it. The users all have an account,
and they can have ability to specify a location to the executable.

Active X components to do this mabey? a simple <a
href="c:\games\half-life\hl.exe -game cstrike">Connect</a> even?

TIA, any pointers helpful.

The server is Debian GNU/Linux, Apache 1.3.26/PHP4.2.2.

Regards,

James Mclean



From framar at interlog.com  Wed Aug 14 20:43:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Wed Aug 14 20:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] industry-standard browser width?
In-Reply-To: <200208141140.AA625475950@andrewlavallee.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020814213835.00a9c750@mail.interlog.com>

At 11:40 AM 8/14/2002 -0400, you wrote:
 > What is the generally accepted standard width when
 > designing for 800x600 screen resolutions? I've seen
 > 778x409 (which seems on the short side) and am wondering
 > how much leeway, esp. heightwise, there is.

When I'm leading a team, the mantra is this "Must look good from 620px wide
and up.) (620= 640(a typical 14in monitor minus all the scroll bars and UI
chrome))

The trick is to make it function perfectly and look good at any resolution-
providing that this is for the computer/web. Web TV, PDAs ect... will have
differing specs.





Frank Marion
framar at interlog.com





From tkuhn at eproject.com  Wed Aug 14 20:49:01 2002
From: tkuhn at eproject.com (Tim Kuhn)
Date: Wed Aug 14 20:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XSL carriage return replacement
Message-ID: <9305DD5E8064DD43A8CD7E8D32B0EBBD08B59D@mail.corp.eproject.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Hello Evolters!
I am having an XSL problem. I am losing the carriage returns from the
xml file. I know that there must be a way that I can replace the &#10;
with a <br /> or &lt; br /&gt; for the whole file not just one node. In
other words I have multiple nodes in the xml that have carriage returns.
If someone know of a way to do this with XSL that would be great.
Thanks.

Tim Kuhn
eProject Inc



From liss at frameshift.com  Wed Aug 14 21:02:00 2002
From: liss at frameshift.com (Melissa Phelps Firestone)
Date: Wed Aug 14 21:02:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Netscape rendering issues
In-Reply-To: <3D5ADF08.4080707@windyhilldesign.com>
Message-ID: <B9807FD6.19A18%liss@frameshift.com>

Thanks to everyone who wrote with ideas and thoughts. After stepping away
and letting it stew for awhile, we decided it really did have to be
doctype-related. Once we started going through the doctype issues, we
realized that the problems are all based on images being displayed as inline
rather than block-level elements.

<tip type="Image display in Netscape 6 with Strict doctypes" author="Liss">
Adding a style to the style sheet (see below) that calls for images to be
displayed as block-level elements and applying it to the table cells in
question has solved the problem. Now cells that contain only an image don't
have any extra space added.

The declaration:
    td.beBlock img {
        display: block;
    }
</tip>

Finally! Thanks again,
--Liss

On 8/14/02 6:51 PM, "Heather Quinn" <info at windyhilldesign.com> wrote:

> Netscape is applying a default font size within your TD's.  You can test
> this  by doing Ctrl+ or Ctrl- to up- or down-size the page's fonts:
> You'll see that as you increase the font sizes, the space under your
> logo will increase, too, and as you decrease the page's fonts, the extra
> space will reduce and eventually disappear.
>
> If you create a style class with a small font and apply it to TD's
> containing images, your problem should be solved.
>
> During the past year, I've been setting up style sheets with a default
> TD font size (and color) appropriate for displaying alt texts in
> NN6+/Mozilla, for those times when images don't load.  I use an 8-point
> font.  While my main purpose in doing this was to make sure that alt
> text's would be readable yet not break the layout if images didn't load,
> I discovered there was an added bonus, in that no extra space seems to
> be created within TD's containing images.  Also, supplying a default
> size to TD also seems to remove TD from the font up-size/down-size loop
> in NN6+/Mozilla, as long as there's no visible text in the table cell --
> thus the graphical portion of the layout doesn't break as the page
> rerenders when users change the font size with Ctrl+ or Ctrl-.
>
> HTH
>
> Melissa Phelps Firestone wrote:
>
>> I have a page that displays perfectly in IE (5+), decently enough (for now)in
>> NS4.7, and like utter garbage in NS6. It's mostly validated XHTML 1.0.
>>
>> The page is at http://66.247.98.6/mBLAST/index.html
>>
>> The problem seems to be that Netscape is putting in spaces and otherwise
>> resizing page elements at its own whim, and nothing that we do can change it.
>> (For example, there's a break within the logo in the top left and another
>> below the tagline)...
>>
>> Thanks for any help you can give!
>> --Liss
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Heather Quinn
> info at windyhilldesign.com
> http://www.windyhilldesign.com
>
>

Thanks,
--Liss



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Wed Aug 14 21:14:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Wed Aug 14 21:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: Moving a struct to a session.var
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020814210658.00a9c898@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPCEKJGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

frank,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Frank
>
> Help! I'm stuck. I'm playing around with structs. The
> user has completed a form with some basic information.
> I want to set it to a struct in the session scope that
> I can move from page to page without losing the data.
>
> The code below (formatted this way just to deal with
> wrapping) is an example of what I'm using. I keep
> getting the "can't resolve parameter" error. All my
> other session variables carry through.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

your friend is the Duplicate() function and square brackets.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> (Tangent: How *does* one output in a cfscript?)
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

with the writeOutput() function.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> StructInsert(ContactDetails
>             ,"EmailAddress"
>             ,"#Form.EmailAddress#");
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

first, don't mix double-quotes and hashes.  drop both and you'll be just fine.

StructInsert(ContactDetails
            , 'EmailAddress'
            , Form.EmailAddress);

or, using dot notation:

ContactDetails.EmailAddress = Form.EmailAddress;

or, using bracket notation:

ContactDetails['EmailAddress'] = Form.EmailAddress;

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> // Copy this struct to a session variable
> Session.ContactDetails=StructNew();
>
> Session.ContactDetails=StructCopy(ContactDetails);
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

use the Duplicate() function instead since the StructCopy() function creates a reference to the local copy instead of creating a new copy.

Session.ContactDetails = Duplicate(ContactDetails);

this is a bunch of extra work though that's not really necessary unless you only want to save a portion of the form elements.  if you really do want to save the entire form that was posted, then just use the Duplicate() function to make a copy in the session scope.

Session.ContactDetails = Duplicate(Form);

good luck,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From david at gigawatt.com  Wed Aug 14 22:51:01 2002
From: david at gigawatt.com (David Kaufman)
Date: Wed Aug 14 22:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] NTWRK ADMNSTRTN: [OT] a desperate plea to all you network administrators, i need your advice!
References: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE078342@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <010201c2440e$e431e020$0100a8c0@snowwhite>

I was about to compose a reply to your original post offering some
suggestions about time management, managing priorities and user
requests, and so on, but then:

Chris W. Parker <cparker at swatgear.com> wrote:
> ... i did get a raise (about 2 months ago). but the
> reason i'm writing this post is because (recently, like last week)
> bossman has come to the near conclusion that i am possibly not "cost
> effective". therefore my job is almost on the line. he doesn't want
> to fire me because so he's given me the opportunity to try and
> restructure my job position and maybe move into the marketing
> department.
>
> all the things i listed are not daily job duties, however some of them
> are. and also, if anything goes wrong with any of those, i'm the one
> that gets to fix it.

Chris, many of us wear many hats.  especially in a smaller company, it's
not uncommon to have technical duties in addition to a "real job" in
such a small shop.  the reason "real job" is in quotes is because so
many non-technical business folks i've run across think of their primary
business operations as the "real" work, and the details of "all that
computer stuff" that they don't understand (that *supports* their
primary business operations) as bothersome busywork.  i've repeatedly
found such non-technical business folks inevitably in management
positions right above me.  oh, but this isn't about me is it?  :-)

while i'm not you, in my case more than a couple of these stuffed
shirts-- i mean middle managers and executives:

- have minimize the importance of that which they do not personally
understand,

- seem to question the productivity and/or actual activities of those of
us working long hours, sometimes into the wee hours, and sometimes
sleeping late and coming in late the next day as a result.  these same
people often express that nothing good can possibly be getting done at
night that can't get done just as easily during the 9-5 business day.

- often either fail to see or outright reject the correlation between
certain sysadmin tasks needing to be done after users have gone home,
sysadmins working late, and sysadmins coming in later than 9am the
following day

- will question the professionalism of people who wear their hair long
and prefer to dress casually (how unbusinesslike!) but, oh right --
again, this is about you, not me -- and

- in times of economic pressure and possibly downsizing pressure, will,
as in your case, ask for techs to justify their own positions, even down
to detailed auditing of the actuual work.  maybe this is because we
"appear" to task-switch constantly and sometimes cannot answer, on the
fly, in a half dozen laymans words the question, what are you doing
right at this moment?

i don't mean to management bash, but underappreciation is almost
unavoidable in many organizations and it seems there will always be a
few whose control needs interfere with the work of the tech staff.  it
sounds to me like your "bossman" does not appreciate what you do *now*,
and certainly has not in his wildest nightmares imagined what would
happen to his precious business operations were you suddenly not right
there, doing just what you do.  it is decidedly Not Good to dwell
silently on "what would not get done if i weren't here to do it" because
the fact is that if you quit, someone would eventually hire someone to
start picking up the balls that dropped after you're not there to juggle
them.  it *is* good to document what you do, to try to help those in
management enumerate what responsibilities you've assumed, what regular
scheduled tasks you perform, and how much of your time each demands of
you.

of course you have only a vague notion right now of what such a list
would look like because you're too busy to write it all down!  but as
he's mentioned both re-assigning you to a new job, firing you (he said
he "doesn't want to fire you" but the possibility arose, and even
mentioning such a thing is a f***king cheap-shot-way to make someone
justify their jobs, IMO!), and ouright asked you to tell him what you
do.

in his defense, this sounds to me like a cry for help.  he needs to know
*specifically* what it is that you do and why.  if anything, you need
*more* help in doing the work, not more work to do!  i wouldn't tell him
that directly, but rather show him.  this is your opportunity to give
him the information he needs to come to that conclusion all by
himself... which is what managers do, right?  they make decisions.  make
this one easy for him.

i think you should take the opportunity to try and define your existing
job description (not to add new responsibilities!).  ask him if it would
be okay if you took two weeks to keep an accurate and detailed activity
log of your job, jotting down each task that you do, why you do them
("this was requested by X", "that was reported as broken by Y", "Z asked
how to do the other thing"), when, and how much of your time each task
ends up consuming.  do this.  stick to it religiously.  write down every
thing that consumes your time.  don't consume more time writing tho --
just a simple log - one entry per line, with start and end times, and
just enough words to remind *you* later on what each task was, how it
went, what it led to, etc.  resist the urge to computerize this!  this
is a job for "ink smeared upon sliced tree" technology.  you cannot
carry your workstation around with you all day.  a pocket-sized note pad
(not notepad.exe on a PDA either!) should do nicely.

then each day (or night) transcribe these detailed notes into a second
log ---this one can be electronic databits, in which you go back over
the paper entries, rewriting each to log the times and explain in
Non-Technical Terms, what each thing was (what you did, where you had to
go, what you had to find out, what software tools you relied upon, what
went wrong, what you had to do to fix it) -- whatever you need to say to
make it apparent that each task is either:

 1. important (and in fact necessary) to the business (that you do on
your own), or

 2. urgently requested by someone else, for them to be able do their
jobs, or

 3. annoying unimportant crap that others insist you do that should not
probably not even *be* done, but that you must do because they outrank
you.

when writing this stuff, think about your boss coming up to you during
each of these tasks and asking you what you're doing, and why, but with
you actually having the time to stop and tell him in a nice
un-stressed-out and unhurried manner.

in all probability this document, spanning two weeks will be voluminous.
you'll be sure to send it to him electronically to be polite (and he'll
merely scroll through it -- not read it beginning to end, to be sure--
but that's okay), but you will print it out also, so that later, if at
any time he or someone else chooses to minimize what you do around here,
you can pull it out of your desk and drop it on theirs with a satisfying
thud, if need be.

since no one will ever read the thing, prepare a summary to become the
first few pages, maybe a nice word table grid-thingy summarizing the
recurring tasks that need your regularly scheduled attention, the
average Number and Urgency of each type of ad-hoc technical request that
you handled in this random two-week sampling period from the entire
staff, *all* of them, from:

  "i can't print",

  "my new hard drive, USB mouse, scanner, speakers and CDRW drive have
arrived.  why aren't they installed yet?",

  "i can't open this file attachment on my PC",

  "that new web page on our site doesn't work in Opera" and

  "my computer gets real quiet when i turn it off" all the way on up to

  "the webserver is down!"

  and on tuesday afternoon, "oh, btw, a customer called me friday to
tell
me all email sent our company's domain is bouncing"

  and an executive asking why "we don't have OS X, Java, Weblogic (it
sounds so logical though!) ActiveX, Flash MX, XHTML" or whatever other X
might be that you
don't have, and that one of his friends at another company does
apparently have, and is bragging about and making him feel that his
(company) is somehow techs-ually inadequate, and you having to take no
less than 30 minutes to explain to him why we already do, don't need,
don't want or can't afford or The Thing, after which you are instructed
to "get it" anyway.

try to group all of your summarized tasks under logical headings that
happen to fall under different logical job titles such as "PC
Technician", "Telephone Technical Support", "Network Administrator",
"System/Server Administrator", "Database Administrator", "Web Designer",
"Perl Programmer", "JavaScript Programmer", or whatever yours happen to
be.  Also do a bit of research to find out what a fair market salary is
for each of these job titles is in your area (if you have no idea, call
companies you find in the paper or on monster.com advertising the
positions, and ask them what the lowest junior Entry-Level salary is
they would expect to pay for each -- employers and HR dept's are usually
very unwilling to talk salaries, until you ask about the lowest junior
Entry-Level salary :-) then they'll probably yammer on endlessly!)

also, be sure to organize the information in such a way as to highlight
all the different departments or business operations of the company that
rely on you to do their work.  do you reboot the PBX phone system when
it screws up? add new hires into it?  have a computerized fax server?  i
bet HR calls you for every hire and fire, every secretary calls you when
someone can't send or receive a fax.  does some mission critical
automated business operation rely on regular emails?  our accounting
department used a free online service that sent them the foreign
currency exchange rates every single day without which they could not
bill canadian and other customers properly.  when it stopped working is
of course when i found this out and set up a slightly more reliable
system with our bank :-).  does the sales department run some weird
contact lead-tracking and contact management software that must be
installed, configured (and endlessly re-installed and re-configured) on
eich of their workstations for them?  who does this?  you?  who does
sales if it's not done?  nobody, right?  similar examples of this "weird
application support" is typical of accounting software systems, support
ticket-tracking systems, fund-raising systems, automated data feeds
between customers, vendors and/or partners.  your purpose here is to
drive home the fact that your job is *not* office services, accounting,
sales, customer support or purchasing (and certainly not The Evil
Practice of Black "Marketing"!!) but that all of these operations
require computers, and you are the computer guy, stretched so thin
because no one ever thought to create the IT department.  does your
company even have a CTO?  i thought not.  but they have a CFO and he is
responsible for all things Monetary.  shouldn't someone be in charge of
all things Computer?

i have to say that if your boss seeks to burden you with *additional*
duties by cramming you, a square peg, into the round hole he has in the
marketing department, and if this were 2000 and not 2002, i'd advise
updating your resume and seeking appreciative employment elsewhere
sonner than later, for that alone.  but thiese days jobs are not so easy
to come by.  he may think that by doing this, he will save the company
money, not having to hire a new marketing person *or* another computer
guy -- you can do both!  if you take that new title, it will most likely
be like taking a second job, with without the second paycheck!  you'd
probably gain numerous new responsibilities in addition to the technical
ones you already have now, which you have less-than-no-time for already
...as evidenced by your original post, desperately seeking advice in
managing and schedulibng the work you have now into the hours available.
he needs to be shown that what you do has substance and value that can
be measured.

so when you email him that Big Document, after 2 weeks, i would suggest
that in that email you formally request to meet with him soon (if not
right away).  if your small company (or his management style) is one of
those in which meetings tend to be short, open-door, ad-hoc affairs,
standing around in an office or cubical and waiting for the next
periodic 5 minute interruption, than ask him to schedule at an hour to
meet with you and "discuss your future with the company".

i choose those words because, like him, you are *mentioning* (without
threatening) merely that your future with the company needs some
discussing, and while he'll hope you just mean by that that you're going
to ask for a promotion or a raise, he'll fear that you might mean to
give him two weeks notice and quit.  now at some level he knows that he
doesn't know what
you do, but is pretty sure that if you left suddenly, a bunch of
miscellaneous stuff will suddenly need to get done by someone, and that
he'd have to find and hire that someone.  in this way you set him up,
and hopefully he *will* set aside some time, close the office door, and
hold his calls, so you two can talk about the large email you sent him,
and your future.

i'd take the meeting as an opportunity to express that:

1. (just like everyone else around here), you like the company and the
work and the people etc, work hard and wear a lot of hats "because we
all want the company to do well... i take personal pride yadda yadda
yadda", and then

2. you understand that "not everyone around here appreciates" what you
do "as well as he does" (stroking his ego as if you think he appreciates
you, while knowing full well that he is actually "the everyone around
here" that has no clue what you do)

3. that the technical work that you do may be undervalued by some, whose
jobs are tied more apparently into direct revenue-producing operations,
but that "we both know" that other organizations our size in our
industry (implying our competitors) depend on technology just like we
do, and hire a whole IT *staff* to support it!

4. express your regret that you are not a degreed college-educated
programmer analyst (and that as a result you buy when you might have
built), that you are not a seasoned network engineer (so you rely
heavily on your ISP's expertise, google and Evolt for advice a lot), or
a professionally trained and certified PC repair technician (so you have
replaced when a better man may have repaired).  tell him that you have
done the best job that you can, and have learned alot while you've been
here, both about computers and whatever industry your company is in.

after all this groveling (he will realize you're not quitting, and will
be further relieved that you're not asking for a raise).  i bet he will
shower you with praise for the work you've done and advise you not to
sell yourself short.  if he does this, then you have won.

you can then apologize for the fact that you are not interested in his
offer of a different position in the marketing department, and explain
that you've realized after compiling your list that he obviously *must*
be considering hiring a more professionally trained and experienced
network admin, web developer (or whatever it is the lists says you do
most of the time) and that you understand that he probably *has* to do
that, for the good of the company!  but that you're more interested in
pursuing formal training for the technical career that you've chosen,
than switching to a career in marketing.

now he'll wonder if you *are* quitting, but soon realize that you
*think* you're getting an ultimatum: the option of either taking the new
job (that you don't want) or being fired.  and then he'll think that
*you* think that in *either* case he's already decided to hire a new
tech guy.  he now knows that in your opinion (which he secretly
respects) no one man can do this job, much less, this job plus another
one too.  and he also knows (from your list) that although you work on
the website (which may be critical to public relations and possibly
sales) you're not doing marketing or sales work.  you're supporting
these mission-critical business operations, as well as many others.

of course this is all a scary, risky kind of mind game that i probably
wouldn't be able to pull off either, with a straight face.  but its the
kind of position you can take that almost cannot result in anything but
him telling you:

"no, no, not at all Chris, my boy.  you have it all wrong!" [after
reading the thing i didn't read, i know that:] "We need *you* in this
job, not some green wet-behind the ears college-boy with a shiny new
degree and no real-world experience"!  i've been planning to tell *you*
to hire somwe more computer guys :-) ... it's just been so hectic
lately... "i've *always* known", [since looking at your work log], he
won't mention, "that you need at least one assitant!  Why you're the
second-hardest working person here" [besides me]  "and, also BTW i don't
want you staying late anymore.  we don't want you burning out now, do
we?  you're muct too important to the future of this company!"

> seeing as how i haven't been doing this very long (almost 2 years with
> almost no mentoring) and am spread really thing i am not able to focus
> on one subject for very long and thus my knowledge is most areas is
> more than some people, but definitely not at any level where i could
> go to another company and say "here is what i can do! give me a job!"

be honest about all that.  tell him you'd really like to learn from the
professionals about how to secure your network from hackers, the company
email system's confidential information and your competition, the users
from viruses, and the website from script kiddies, but you barely have
time to read about these things in trade magazines, much less take an
actual class!

hopefully :-) he will assure you that you're neither being fired nor
asked/forced to change departments.  he might even realize (and then
tell you) that the company often *pays* for outside staff development
and training!

>
> please anyone and everyone chime in with your .02!

sorry, i don't have two cents.  i tried this exact shenanigan six months
ago, and the bluff failed miserably.  i was replaced immediately and
have been unable to find any work since in this g_d-forsaken economy,
and have just recently run out of unemployment benefits.

but i hope my advice has been helpful:  **Think Positive!**

:-)

-dave

--
sig {
  # stripped by Morton AntiVirus SMTP filter ...it's
  # for your own protection -- you'll thank us later.
}




From ethanol at mathlab.sunysb.edu  Wed Aug 14 23:26:01 2002
From: ethanol at mathlab.sunysb.edu (Sean G.)
Date: Wed Aug 14 23:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] NTWRK ADMNSTRTN: [OT] a desperate plea to all you network administrators, i need your advice!
In-Reply-To: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE03307C@ati-ex-01.ati.local>
Message-ID: <BHEEINGNABLHPFNMKPFPEENBCEAA.ethanol@mathlab.sunysb.edu>

Howdy,

I feel your pain!  Been there, done that.  At one point I was tech
support/network admin for offices in Boston and New York City, front line
customer tech support for two e-commerce web sites, CF developer, SQL dba,
SQA, and the always fun "any other job/assignment that has to do with
technology."

I generally worked 45-50 hrs per week 10-7 (but easily could of done more if
I wanted to).  What I didn't do for 3 years was take any personal days, sick
days, or extended vacations.  I did work most holidays.

A rough break down of duties would be 20% network admin, 20% internal
support, 10% external (phone) support, 25% web development, 25% sql
development.

Advice I would give--figure out exactly what you want to get out of this
position, and leave as soon as you aren't getting it.

You don't say if you're the only person working on the websites, if the
people you support are high-maintenance, or how much time the other
assignments take, but I can almost guarantee you're stretched too thin.

It's not just an issue of you being overworked, or not being to able to
devote the proper attention to a particular task, but you're probably
learning a lot of bad habits you'll have to unlearn if you ever move on to a
real IT organization.

I was young with little experience and was fortunate to be in a position to
get hands -on work with databases, email servers, e-commerce web
development, et al.  It was the type of company where we pulled all our
email from a single POP account until bossman dropped a (burned) copy of
Exchange on my desk, "Let's see if you can get his up and running."

I thought of it as grad school--Exchange one week, vpn the next, get MS-SQL
up and running, then update all the code for the websites...

And like grad school, the pay sucked, the benefits sucked, the hours sucked,
the Professor (bossman) got the lime light, undergrads (minimum wage boobs I
was supporting) did the partying, and I was stuck in the middle making sure
all the systems worked.

As long as I was learning new technologies and building the resume, I was
getting what I needed from the position.  But that doesn't last forever.
One day you just have turn in that thesis and move on.

Two things happened before I made my move.  First, the opportunities for
exposure to new technologies became fewer and fewer.  It wasn't, "let's
learn Cold Fusion."  It's was, "upgrade the servers from CF 4 to CF
4.5"--which while it is important to keep your skills current, it's not
something you sacrifice pay/vacation/job satisfaction for.

And second, I learned enough to know a lot of what I had learned was wrong,
but hadn't learned enough to make it right.  I learned how to build an
e-commerce web site, but I learned nothing about documenting the development
process, nothing about version control, nothing about a proper staging
environment.  Basically all the things I didn't know made the things I did
know almost worthless.

And that second point is key.  If you're one guy doing all the things you
list (I don't doubt you) then either you're the super stud keeping
everything running, or your bosses aren't running the organization properly,
and therefore are not good role models for you learn management techniques
from.  Not that I doubt your abilities, but the tenor of your questions
makes me think the later scenario is more likely than the former.  =)

To put it another way, if you're the 1-man team keeping the websites going,
you probably don't have the time or the experience to develop and document
proper procedures.  So you're the only one who can do what you do.  So 1)
you can never be promoted past that task, and 2) the website can never grow
past the size you can support.

The company I worked for was strictly e-commerce--our websites were our only
business.  One day I realized, as much as I had learned, and as good as I
was, we needed a larger development team to grow.  And only way we could do
that was to either recode everything from scratch or pay the new developers
for 6 months while they went through the existing spaghetti code before they
could start anything new.

Luckily, I reached this point just before the bubble burst and was able to
find a new job very quickly.  But I was in a great position--I wasn't a guru
in any area, but I had my choice of areas to pursue.  I had done enough
coding to take a full-time web development job.  I had enough sql to move to
a junior dba position.  I certainly had the network admin stuff down cold.
I had my degree.

So all-in-all it was good job.  I got my hands on a gaggle of new
technologies, got real-world front-line experience, got my dot com craze
stories for telling around the camp fire, got my resume together, and moved
on.

Okay, didn't mean to ramble on so, but the moral of the story is: all things
in moderation.  Know when to say when.  Friends don't let friends run IIS.

HTH,


Sean G.

> -----Original Message-----
>
> hi.
>
> i have a problem.




From ethanol at mathlab.sunysb.edu  Thu Aug 15 00:06:01 2002
From: ethanol at mathlab.sunysb.edu (Sean G.)
Date: Thu Aug 15 00:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] NTWRK ADMNSTRTN: [OT] a desperate plea to all you network administrators, i need your advice!
In-Reply-To: <010201c2440e$e431e020$0100a8c0@snowwhite>
Message-ID: <BHEEINGNABLHPFNMKPFPCENCCEAA.ethanol@mathlab.sunysb.edu>

DK:  +1 (a lot)


PS. The position I took after leaving a crazy dot com where I was the 1-man
IT dept--that company went belly up and I was laid off 6 months into the
job.

That was right when all the telcos were sweating IT workers like Robin
Williams under a heat lamp.  (If you saw his recent HBO show, you'd know
that would be a lot of sweat.)  I was out of work for 13 months--long enough
to run through the unemployment checks, burn what little savings I had left,
then run through the unemployment extension the governor finally passed.
Luckily Sept 11 rolled around, and if I wasn't depressed enough, a couple
days of watching CNN made me want to slit my wrists.

While I did have a lot of second thoughts about taking the job that I got
laid off from, I never regretted leaving the crazy dot com.  Some jobs
really are worse than no job--sounds like you had one, Dave.  Hang in there.

I HIGHLY recommend "What color is your parachute"
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1580083412/evoltorg>
By recommend I mean, if you can't afford to buy even a used copy, I will
send you mine.  In one of my more desperate moments, I paid a career
coach/placement service $3k.  Everything they told me was already in that
book.

I started a new job about 2.5 months ago, and call me crazy, I could
actually see myself working there until it's time to retire.  It's not
perfect, but I doing what I want to do, getting support from the people
around me, and recognition from the people above me.

HTH,

Sean G.
"I don't get it. Everyone loves rats but they don't want to drink the rats'
milk?"



> -----Original Message-----
> I was about to compose a reply to your original post offering some
> suggestions about time management, managing priorities and user
> requests, and so on, but then:
>
> Chris W. Parker <cparker at swatgear.com> wrote:
> > ... i did get a raise (about 2 months ago). but the
> > reason i'm writing this post is because (recently, like last week)
> > bossman has come to the near conclusion that i am possibly not "cost
> > effective". therefore my job is almost on the line. he doesn't want
> > to fire me because so he's given me the opportunity to try and
> > restructure my job position and maybe move into the marketing
> > department.
>




From framar at interlog.com  Thu Aug 15 00:48:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Thu Aug 15 00:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <20020814184612.04a6cefe.evolt@david.us-lot.org>
References: <3D5ABFA2.15730.14A5CFA@localhost>
 <20020814184612.04a6cefe.evolt@david.us-lot.org>
Message-ID: <179286360094.20020815014723@interlog.com>

Wednesday, August 14, 2002, 1:46:12 PM, you wrote:

D> I've heard good things about The Bat: http://www.ritlabs.com/the_bat/

Excellent recommendation. I myself, a Eudora user for more than ten
years have decided to make the switch. I personally prefer the less
cluttered approach, I don't like the multi-pane view. Eudora lets me
access everything though a simple menu. I've found, however that it
simply loads the e-mail up with way too much markup, and that the
editor was a pseudo-HTML editor. It was getting in my way. The Bat!,
however seems to have a much cleaner text editor. Plain text! Remember
that? It's also got tones of 'hard core' e-mailer features. I'm still
getting used to it, time will tell.

<tip type="Work flow" author="Frank Marion">

Even the greatest carpenter will be limited to some degree by her
tools. Choose your tools wisely, and you will increase the value you
offer on the market, as well as the quality of the time you spend
building your product.

</tip>

--
Frank Marion,
framar at interlog.com





From bwijers at bdisfunctional.net  Thu Aug 15 01:28:00 2002
From: bwijers at bdisfunctional.net (BjornW)
Date: Thu Aug 15 01:28:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Magenta new web authoring package
Message-ID: <KGEGLFFLEFELJCGMFNGGIELPCBAA.bwijers@bdisfunctional.net>

He people,

My former internship company has develop a authoringtool (also featured some
time ago in several magazines such as Computer Arts etc) some time ago and
it now features the possibility to create streaming applications. For the
specs and more info have a look at their web site and give the guys some
feedback. Btw I am also curious what you guys think about it. Btw I am not
in any ways connected to them anymore......so please don`t consider this as
spam from them, but from me :-)

The address:
http://www.magentammt.com

Greetz
Bj?rn W



From lists at airtightweb.com  Thu Aug 15 01:28:29 2002
From: lists at airtightweb.com (Chris Montgomery)
Date: Thu Aug 15 01:28:29 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <7214553171.20020814202911@kfx-design.co.uk>
References: <3D5ABFA2.15730.14A5CFA@localhost>
 <7214553171.20020814202911@kfx-design.co.uk>
Message-ID: <13713977548.20020814210622@airtightweb.com>

Wednesday, August 14, 2002, 2:29:11 PM, ~kristina wrote:

~>   The bat! is king

I wholeheartedly concur. I started out with Eudora back in 1995, then
moved to Outlook about three years later. A few months ago, I tried
several other email clients, including Mozilla Mail (which I found to
be quite good) and PocoMail (kinda buggy). Ended up trying The Bat!
and never looked back. I really liked Outlook's features, but tired of
the constant security problems.

--
Chris Montgomery        monty at airtightweb.com

Airtight Web Services   http://www.airtightweb.com
Web Development, Web Project Management, Software Sales
210-490-3249/888-745-7603



From brad at beldamar.com  Thu Aug 15 01:29:02 2002
From: brad at beldamar.com (Brad Miller)
Date: Thu Aug 15 01:29:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] XSL carriage return replacement
In-Reply-To: <9305DD5E8064DD43A8CD7E8D32B0EBBD08B59D@mail.corp.eproject.com>
Message-ID: <000501c24407$2b475470$b1276844@beldamar>

--
~I am having an XSL problem. I am losing the carriage returns from the
~xml file. I know that there must be a way that I can replace the &#10;
~with a <br /> or &lt; br /&gt; for the whole file not just one node. In
~other words I have multiple nodes in the xml that have
~carriage returns.

I am not sure that you can match &#10 using XPath.
I know you can use <xsl:text> to add carriage returns but you would need to
match a node for that.
You might want to look into the whitespace documentation on w3.org to see if
there is something else you can do.

You might also look at <xsl:preserve-space>. I know this will preserve the
amount of whitespace in an XML doc like this:

<text>    some    text    </text>

output:

    some    text

But I don't know if this would help with HTML output.

Everything I have read when refering to carriage returns talks about using
<xsl:text> so that might be your best bet for finding a solution.

Brad Miller
www.beldamar.com
www.x-etc.com
brad at beldamar.com
--
[ winmail.dat was deleted, please don't send attachments with your message. ]
--



From framar at interlog.com  Thu Aug 15 01:40:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Thu Aug 15 01:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: Moving a struct to a session.var
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPCEKJGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPCEKJGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3289457057.20020815023900@interlog.com>

Wednesday, August 14, 2002, 10:14:56 PM, you wrote:

j> Session.ContactDetails = Duplicate(Form);

I think a little light just dawned on me. I think I read
somewhere that CF treats most scopes as a struct. If this is
the case, I never have to go though weird loops and string
calcs again. Am I right about this "treating scopes as
structs" thing?


--
Frank Marion,
framar at interlog.com





From steve.cook at evitbe.com  Thu Aug 15 01:45:01 2002
From: steve.cook at evitbe.com (Steve Cook)
Date: Thu Aug 15 01:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] diaster recovery with WAP and palm pilots. . .
Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D523078BE@SBS>

What a great idea - I think that your main issue is going to be
communicating to people  how they can contact the page in an emergency
though. It has to becoma almost second nature in some way as people who are
scared for their lives don't have much time to look up contact details.

You might consider SMS or text messaging as well - I don't know what the
penetration is in the US, but here in Europe texting is astonishingly
popular. Set up so that if someone texts the message 911 (for instance) to a
certain number they get an autoresponse message containing information.

Otherwise I would agree with Daniel - think about building a "central"
version and adding translators. Don't forget too that many communications
devices can also handle raw text pages...

Good luck with the project.

.steve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fortune Elkins [mailto:fortune_elkins at summithq.com]
> Sent: den 14 augusti 2002 17:37
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] diaster recovery with WAP and palm pilots. . .
>
>
> hiya!
>
> as some of you may know, my company was dislocated on 9-11.
> we have since
> returned to ground zero. we are looking at making some web
> pages that people
> can log into in case of another event, so that even if people flee in
> disorder they can log in somewhere and we can know everyone
> is safe. as you
> may recall, on 9-11, the land phones in nyc were mostly down but many
> internet-dedicatd phone numbers were still working so that
> many people could
> still access the web.
<SNIP>


From framar at interlog.com  Thu Aug 15 02:28:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Thu Aug 15 02:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: Moving a struct to a session.var
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPCEKJGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPCEKJGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <196292347453.20020815032710@interlog.com>

Wednesday, August 14, 2002, 10:14:56 PM, you wrote:

j> Session.ContactDetails = Duplicate(ContactDetails);

Yep, that worked out for me quite perfectly. Thank you very
much! One more question, one of style, I suppose.

Is it good form to delete the original local struct after
copying, or does it make a difference?

--
Frank Marion,
framar at interlog.com





From eych at ageofweb.ru  Thu Aug 15 02:30:00 2002
From: eych at ageofweb.ru (Sergey 'the Eych' Smirnov)
Date: Thu Aug 15 02:30:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript question
Message-ID: <1683403167.20020815112924@ageofweb.ru>

Greetings,

I have a problem passing certain parameter from one function to
another in Javascript. Here is the story.

I have a div on the page with id 'submenu'. On 'onmouseout' event i
want to hide it. Also i want to wait for several hundred milliseconds
before i do, so that the user will have time to point at it with a mouse
(this is a simple dhtml popup menu).

If i am right then the only way to ask the browser to wait is to use
window.setTimeout("function()", millisecs) call.

So i try the following:

>> [code quote]

function waitAndHide(id) {
  timer = window.setTimeout('hideDiv('+id+')', 250);
}

function hideDiv(id) {
  var element = getId(id);
  if (element) {
    (ns4) ? element.visibility = "hidden" : element.style.visibility = "hidden";
  }
  return false;
}

>> [/code quote]

Now, id that is passed to waitAndHide is not an object - it is just a
div id - a string. With getId() i am getting an object from 'id' and
then i use it.

But! For some strange reason id is not passed to hideDiv. It is
defined and works ok inside waitAndHide() but it is undefined in
hideDiv(). What might be the problem? What am i missing?

Also, for another strange reason i found out that IE 6.0 thinks that
'id' is already an object inside waitAndHide and i can get id from it
with 'id.id'. While Mozilla doesn't think that 'id' is an object and i
just can't make it pass 'id' correctly to hideDiv.

Any help will be appreciated.

---
Sergey "the Eych" Smirnov
One of the Stuffed Guys
http://www.stuffedguys.com



From Liorean at user.bip.net  Thu Aug 15 02:46:01 2002
From: Liorean at user.bip.net (Liorean)
Date: Thu Aug 15 02:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript question
In-Reply-To: <1683403167.20020815112924@ageofweb.ru>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020815094319.02ccda30@pop3.bip.net>

This might be a problem with your onmouseout or getId(). Why not eliminate
them like this?

<div id="blah" onmouseout="waitAndHide(this);">
[...]
function waitAndHide(elm){
   return (timer=setTimeout("hideDiv('+elm+')",250));
}

function hideDiv(elm){
   typeof
elm=='object'&&(ns4)?element.visibility="hide":element.style.visibility="hidden";
   return false;
}

// Liorean



From muinar at gmx.net  Thu Aug 15 02:49:01 2002
From: muinar at gmx.net (m u i n a r)
Date: Thu Aug 15 02:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPIEJPGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <06154D6549B7D5119FC100508BB02DED27AC87@nj10-exchange.winebow.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020815092624.01c99ec0@mail.gmx.net>

At 23:19 14.08.02, you wrote:
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > It also dumps all the attachments in a separate folder,
> > so I can double check them for viruses.  Makes managing
> > the attachments easier as well.  All in one place for
> > easy sorting.
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

 From there, you can move them easily to your projects folder
and delete all unused files, for instance all .vcf files at
once. This way you don't keep MBs of useless files for years,
and everything is in it's place.

>i find this aspect of eudora very difficult to use.  i like having the
>attachments with the message.  i don't have to look at a folder full of
>attachments and try to figure out which email message a particular
>attachment belongs to.

Outlook stores all email into 1 single, huge, binary folder that
is well hidden somewhere deep in the windows folder. This is a real
horror to me. What if that binary file gets damaged after three years?

Eudora is set up to have one simple text file for every mailbox folder,
for instance c:\eudora\mailing_lists\evolt.mbx - I appreciate that they
give me back the control that MS keeps trying to take from me with most
of their products.

To switch mail to my notebook, I only need to backup the files that
have changed in the last seven days or so, which saves me a lot of time
and hassle.

Is this the same with 'The Bat!'? What kind of files and file system
does this client use? To my taste the interface of Bat! looks somewhat
childish, but the regex options look interesting.

Tnx

Mike




From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Thu Aug 15 02:51:01 2002
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Thu Aug 15 02:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Magenta new web authoring package
References: <KGEGLFFLEFELJCGMFNGGIELPCBAA.bwijers@bdisfunctional.net>
Message-ID: <0bae01c24430$344c4d90$c703c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

hi ,
Thanks for pointing out this alternative to Flash/SVG.

I was surprised to see this has been developed since 1998. I'm supposed to
be more or less up-to-date on internet graphics applications, but I'd not
heard about this yet.

After checking it out, it reminded me of Curl or FlashMx.

One of the things I liked about it, is that it has some pretty powerful
modules available, like Socket connections for instance.
Also the "free for personal use" license is nice - shame it's a crippled
version though.

Why I wouldn't seriously contemplate using this tool:
It seems to be IE/windows only.
Accessibility issues have not been taken into consideration.
It uses Python as a scripting language.
The visitor has to accept a security popup to install the plugin - fine, but
also on each visit to a Magenta webapplication, and it's a known security
risk to click the "Always trust content from..." button.

Cheers,
Richard.

Was that an [OT] in the subject? guess we better pay with a tip then:

<tip type="Flash">
Ever needed to change the phone-numbers in a Flash website authored by
someone else?
Often you can edit them directly in the .swf file with a text-editor - text
shows as plain-text in the binary.
</tip>

<<----- Original Message -----
<<From: "BjornW" <bwijers at bdisfunctional.net>
<<The address:
<<http://www.magentammt.com





From framar at interlog.com  Thu Aug 15 03:05:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Thu Aug 15 03:05:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Shoot me.
Message-ID: <85294592862.20020815040436@interlog.com>

Shoot. Ever catch yourself being a fool? (God knows I do
that *way* too much!)

A lot of the questions that I've asked today were directly
answered in responses to another e-mail I sent some time
ago. (CF: Advanced? How do you know?).

For what it's worth I only recognized them upon re-reading.
It's a matter of context.

I humbly apologize, and bless you for your patience.

--

Frank Marion,
framar at interlog.com





From luminosity at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 15 03:06:01 2002
From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Thu Aug 15 03:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Mozilla is giving me strange errors
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020813071737.009f4190@accessibleinter.net> <3D5949BB.6020807@star-chaser.com>
Message-ID: <3D5B6093.1020104@members.evolt.org>

Gary Bland wrote:
> in Mozilla 1.0 it is displaying an error for line 57 for &nbsp
>
> <div class="formrow"><span class="label">&nbsp;</span><input
> -----------------------------------------^

Bingo! Thankyou. :) for some reason my version was saying my link
tag was malformed. It kept reporting the error as being in a link
tag on a line that didn't even have a link tag. Ugh.
--
Lach
__________________________________________
Web: http://illuminosity.net/
E-mail: lach at illuminosity.net
MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
__________________________________________




From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 15 03:07:00 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Aug 15 03:07:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: Moving a struct to a session.var
In-Reply-To: <3289457057.20020815023900@interlog.com>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPIEKOGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

frank,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Frank
>
> j> Session.ContactDetails = Duplicate(Form);
>
> I think a little light just dawned on me. I think I
> read somewhere that CF treats most scopes as a struct.
> If this is the case, I never have to go though weird
> loops and string calcs again. Am I right about this
> "treating scopes as structs" thing?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

with rare exception in cf5 (variables, server, and caller) scopes and structures are synonymous.  in cfmx, all scopes are also structures.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 15 03:10:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Aug 15 03:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: Moving a struct to a session.var
In-Reply-To: <196292347453.20020815032710@interlog.com>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPCEKPGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

frank,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Frank
>
> j> Session.ContactDetails = Duplicate(ContactDetails);
>
> Yep, that worked out for me quite perfectly. Thank you
> very much! One more question, one of style, I suppose.
>
> Is it good form to delete the original local struct
> after copying, or does it make a difference?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

generally it's not a big deal since the local copy will be gone once cf server is done answering the request that created the local variables in the first place.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 15 03:42:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Aug 15 03:42:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020815092624.01c99ec0@mail.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPMEKPGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

muinar,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: m u i n a r
>
> > > It also dumps all the attachments in a separate
> > > folder, so I can double check them for viruses.
> > > Makes managing the attachments easier as well.
> > > All in one place for easy sorting.
> > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> From there, you can move them easily to your projects folder
> and delete all unused files, for instance all .vcf files at
> once. This way you don't keep MBs of useless files for years,
> and everything is in it's place.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

provided you make it a habit to go into your attachment folder everytime something comes in and move the attachments to an appropriate location.  that seems like far more hassle to me than it's worth and one more step to forget.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > i find this aspect of eudora very difficult to use.
> > i like having the attachments with the message.  i
> > don't have to look at a folder full of attachments and
> > try to figure out which email message a particular
> > attachment belongs to.
>
> Outlook stores all email into 1 single, huge, binary
> folder that is well hidden somewhere deep in the
> windows folder. This is a real horror to me. What if
> that binary file gets damaged after three years?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

i'm well aware that outlook stores everything in a single file (not folder).  it's not hidden deep in the windows folder as you say.  it's actually in the "documents and settings" folder for the particular login that's using outlook.

you're right about the file being susceptible to corruption.  it happens once in a while.  there's a utility to fix it.  i've had to use it before.  it works very well.  i've got *lots* of mail on my computer.  my main pst file is nearing 1 gig and i'm not worried about it.  periodically i go through and archive really old stuff into separate pst files.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> I appreciate that they give me back the control that MS
> keeps trying to take from me with most of their
> products.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

bah, anti-ms sentiment just reduced your pro-eudora position to me.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> To switch mail to my notebook, I only need to backup the
> files that have changed in the last seven days or so,
> which saves me a lot of time and hassle.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

how long can it possibly take to copy a single pst file from one machine to another?

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From framar at interlog.com  Thu Aug 15 04:33:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Thu Aug 15 04:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPMEKPGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPMEKPGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <33299853035.20020815053216@interlog.com>

Thursday, August 15, 2002, 4:43:21 AM, you wrote:

j> provided you make it a habit to go into your attachment folder everytime
j> something comes in and move the attachments to an appropriate location.
j> that seems like far more hassle to me than it's worth and one more step to
j> forget.

The nice thing about the Mac version of Eudora is that you
can move your files automatically with your filters.

--
Frank Marion,
framar at interlog.com





From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Thu Aug 15 04:36:01 2002
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Thu Aug 15 04:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] access pop3 - perl script
References: <098001c2438e$fc84bdd0$c703c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <20020814142340.B18840@riffraff.plig.net>
Message-ID: <0c2001c2443e$cd98a7b0$c703c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

Hi,
<----- Original Message -----
<From: "Anne Thorniley" <anne at beerintheevening.com>
<Basically, you'll need[1] to use Mail::POP3Client and MIME::Parser at
<a minimum, I'm also using MIME::Head, and File::Copy to make life
<easier. Looking at the docs for these modules should give you
<enough examples to get one up and running.

<If you need more detailed help let me know.

Well ok then :o)
My server doesn't have mime::parser installed. What it does have is:

mime::base64
mime::quotedPrint
mime::lite
net::pop3.pm
Mail::POP3Client
html::parser

Now using net::pop3 I succeeded in logging in to the pop account and
reading/deleting messages, but I've had no luck getting the attachments yet.
The attachments I'm trying to get are only ever .txt files, so I don't think
they'll be encoded... (not sure though)
Do you know how I could get the attachments without mime::parser?

Thanks,
Richard.



From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 04:48:01 2002
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Thu Aug 15 04:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP.net and the Calender control
In-Reply-To: <0c2001c2443e$cd98a7b0$c703c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEGEJOEOAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>

Hi all

I've produced a application using a calendar control.  The
CultureInfo.CurrentCulture shows en-GB.  The problem I'm getting is that the
calendar control is mangling the date.  I've got the date stored in an
Access DB as a date/time field.

Here's an example of what happens.

Date stored in the DB is : 09/06/2002
Date displayed by calendar is : 9th June

I post the page back, which updates the database

Date stored in the DB is now : 06/09/2002

I load the page and the calendar is now showing 6th Sept.  And if I post the
page back again the date gets swapped around yet again.

Arrrrrrrrrggggg

Does anyone have any ideas?

Norman



From darren at web-bitch.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 05:16:01 2002
From: darren at web-bitch.co.uk (darren)
Date: Thu Aug 15 05:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP.net and the Calender control
In-Reply-To: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEGEJOEOAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>
References: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEGEJOEOAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1584348592.20020815111446@web-bitch.co.uk>

On Thursday, August 15, 2002 at 10:46, Norman Beresford wrote:

NB> I've produced a application using a calendar control.  The
NB> CultureInfo.CurrentCulture shows en-GB.  The problem I'm getting is that the
NB> calendar control is mangling the date.  I've got the date stored in an
NB> Access DB as a date/time field.

you need to make sure your server is also running in english format...this
is usually the problem.

<snip>

NB> Does anyone have any ideas?

how about formatting the date from the postback to be in YYYYMMDD format
(or some other unambiguous format that access can handle) and inserting
that into the database?

hth,

darren.



From carole at pixeltable.com  Thu Aug 15 06:08:01 2002
From: carole at pixeltable.com (carole guevin)
Date: Thu Aug 15 06:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPMEKPGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <EDEEKGOEBENBHEGBEKAJAELHEEAA.carole@pixeltable.com>

:> Outlook stores all email into 1 single, huge, binary
:> folder that is well hidden somewhere deep in the
:> windows folder. This is a real horror to me. What if
:> that binary file gets damaged after three years?

There is a small .exe from Microsoft to *Personal folders backup* -  -
download - install - then make your first backup - and set it at a
convenient time (every week) - you need to close down outlook for the backup
to be made.

http://office.microsoft.com/downloads/2002/pfbackup.aspx

Don't forget to copy the program either on your slave (backup disk) or on a
cd if you have to reinstall Office.  You will need the program installed in
order to *open* your backup file.

The .pst file which the above *pfbackup1.exe* is called *outlook backup.pst*
which you will find in:

Local settings/Application data/Microsoft/Outlook/outlook backup. (you need
to turn on *hidden files* in your folder options).

What I do regularly (2 weeks) is copy this backup file to my slave disk or
burn a cd - I manage over 50mb of mails cumulated over 7 years of
exchange... so this is a very precious file for me.

If you need to reformat or change your workstation.  After reinstalling
office - re-install the .exe - and then you can open your backup file (make
sure you know its location on your machine) - then you copy and paste all
the directories to your *new* folder. Close the *old* file and before
exiting outlook, choose to make a new *backup* and you're ready to go.

Also make sure that in the outlook Tools/Options/Other/Autoarchive that it
is turn off so you don't compress any of your files.

hth.

.c

hth.






From n.beresford at anansi.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 06:19:01 2002
From: n.beresford at anansi.co.uk (Norman Beresford)
Date: Thu Aug 15 06:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP.net and the Calender control
In-Reply-To: <1584348592.20020815111446@web-bitch.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PJEHKEKJKBCIAFEIAFAEGEKDEOAA.n.beresford@anansi.co.uk>

Hi Darren

I assumed that with the CultureInfo.CurrentCulture showing en-GB that that
meant that the server was running in English format.  I've taken your advice
and used the LongDateString to format the date, which appears to have cured
it.

Thanks

Norman


> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of darren
> Sent: 15 August 2002 11:15
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] ASP.net and the Calender control
>
>
> On Thursday, August 15, 2002 at 10:46, Norman Beresford wrote:
>
> NB> I've produced a application using a calendar control.  The
> NB> CultureInfo.CurrentCulture shows en-GB.  The problem I'm
> getting is that the
> NB> calendar control is mangling the date.  I've got the date stored in an
> NB> Access DB as a date/time field.
>
> you need to make sure your server is also running in english format...this
> is usually the problem.
>
> <snip>
>
> NB> Does anyone have any ideas?
>
> how about formatting the date from the postback to be in YYYYMMDD format
> (or some other unambiguous format that access can handle) and inserting
> that into the database?
>
> hth,
>
> darren.
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Thu Aug 15 07:03:01 2002
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Thu Aug 15 07:03:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] NTWRK ADMNSTRTN: [OT] a desperate plea to all you network administrators, i need your advice!
In-Reply-To: <010201c2440e$e431e020$0100a8c0@snowwhite>
Message-ID: <001001c24453$d2d47af0$8102a8c0@000347D72515>

[snip]
I was about to compose a reply to your original post offering some
suggestions ...

...but i hope my advice has been helpful:  **Think Positive!**
[/snip]

***APPLAUSE*** ***APPLAUSE*** ***APPLAUSE***

An amazing analysis of the current work situation of most folks in most
small IT departments/shops!

Jay

<tip type="PHP">
If you have recently upgraded PHP (above 4.1.x, and you should be using
4.2.x by now for security reasons) you may notice that some of your
variables no longer get passed from page to page or input to the database.
That is because the php.ini file now has the register_globals flag set to
OFF, also for security reasons. You can a.)Open the php.ini file and set the
flag to ON, or 2.) Recode your GET and POST variables in the new method
(suggested) such as $_GET['variable name'] or $_POST['variable name'].

Need to locate that php.ini file? Create a page with the following line in
it

<?php phpinfo(); ?>

upload to the server and open the page in the browser ... it will be quite
revealing to you.
</tip>




From jedimaster at macromedia.com  Thu Aug 15 07:18:01 2002
From: jedimaster at macromedia.com (Raymond Camden)
Date: Thu Aug 15 07:18:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: Moving a struct to a session.var
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPCEKJGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <003601c24455$acd4a080$6561a8c0@vader>

> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > // Copy this struct to a session variable
> > Session.ContactDetails=StructNew();
> >
> > Session.ContactDetails=StructCopy(ContactDetails);
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> use the Duplicate() function instead since the StructCopy()
> function creates a reference to the local copy instead of
> creating a new copy.

StructCopy _will_ create a copy, but only if the structure is 'simple',
ie, contains keys with values that are strings. The problem with
structCopy comes up when the struct you copy has a key that is a struct
itself (or an array w/ structs, etc). In general, never use structCopy.
(Sorry for being anal. ;)

=======================================================================
Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire

Email    : jedimaster at macromedia.com
Yahoo IM : cfjedimaster

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda




From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov  Thu Aug 15 07:50:01 2002
From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S)
Date: Thu Aug 15 07:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Domain Names...
Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C463@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]

I usually set up a page on the server with a link to the new page, a meta
refresh tag of 10 seconds, and directions that they will be forwarded to the
new page.

Josh


From simon at incutio.com  Thu Aug 15 08:11:01 2002
From: simon at incutio.com (Simon Willison)
Date: Thu Aug 15 08:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <20020814183551.73738.qmail@web13504.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <3D5AA999.8080402@fuzzylizard.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020815140832.0206a410@mail.incutio.com>

At 11:35 14/08/2002 -0700, jon steele wrote:
>I'm afraid I will have to burst the Mozilla bubble and vote for Outlook
>2000 (not the Express) ;).
>I don't know if it's a fair competition with Outlook's price tag...
>
>I used to use the Netscape 6 mail client (which I imagine is the same as
>Mozilla) and it really
>annoyed me. It was slow loading, had a slow interface, minimal address
>book features, and I didn't
>even know it had a calendar (does it?). It also had a tendency to crash on
>me a lot. I found it to
>be very basic.

Remember that as a high profile open source project Mozilla is improving at
a phenomenal rate. Netscape 6 uses code from a relatively old version of
Mozilla (0.9.4 or there abouts?) so it is always worth grabbing the latest
stable Mozilla version instead. I would be surprised if the mail client had
not improved considerably since you last tried it.

Cheers,

Simon Willison
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~cs1spw/blog/



From magnus at slackware.adsl.dk  Thu Aug 15 08:22:01 2002
From: magnus at slackware.adsl.dk (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D8stergaard?=)
Date: Thu Aug 15 08:22:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Domain Names...
References: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C463@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>
Message-ID: <3D5BAABA.47B488D8@slackware.adsl.dk>

Feingold Josh S wrote:
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>
> I usually set up a page on the server with a link to the new page, a meta
> refresh tag of 10 seconds, and directions that they will be forwarded to the
> new page.

It is better to send the correct codes, as smart bots like google will
act on them. The permanent code (301) will make google drop the old ref
and index the new.

Read: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_alias.html#redirect

Redirect permanent /xyz http://example.com/


--
Magnus ?stergaard

Tomorrow will be cancelled due to lack of interest...


From Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov  Thu Aug 15 08:29:00 2002
From: Josh.S.Feingold at irs.gov (Feingold Josh S)
Date: Thu Aug 15 08:29:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Domain Names...
Message-ID: <67C18A40A655D3119CDD0004ACE530C60541C464@chm0010mb01.atsc.irs.gov>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]


> It is better to send the correct codes, as smart bots
> like google will
> act on them. The permanent code (301) will make google
> drop the old ref and index the new.

> Read:
> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_alias.html#redirect
> Redirect permanent /xyz http://example.com/

I would rather let people know why their browser is suddenly being
redirected.  Regarding search engines, simply feed known bots a 301 code.

Josh


From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Thu Aug 15 08:34:01 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Thu Aug 15 08:34:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XSL carriage return replacement
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A136@fsjubj09>

>I am having an XSL problem. I am losing the carriage returns from the
>xml file. I know that there must be a way that I can replace the &#10;
>with a <br /> or &lt; br /&gt; for the whole file not just one node. In
>other words I have multiple nodes in the xml that have carriage returns.
>If someone know of a way to do this with XSL that would be great.

Read the XML into a DOM object, select the nodes you want to preserve
carriage returns, then loop through the selected nodes and replace carriage
returns on each.

You could do (in VBScript with MSXML ):

	Set oXml = Server.CreateObject( "Msxml2.DomDocument.3.0" )
	Set oNodes = oXml.SelectNodes( "/path/to/nodes/to/check" )
	For each oNode in oNodes
		oNode.Value = Replace( oNode.Value, vbCrLf, "<br/>" )
	Next
	... pass through XSL ...

Syntax may be slightly off in a couple places but it probably works. I've
done stuff like this before.

HTH,
-dave


From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 09:24:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Thu Aug 15 09:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Domain Names...
In-Reply-To: <000c01c243cc$af25bab0$3d0010ac@coawg110c01>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOENJDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

instead of messing about with the server you could just

<meta http-equiv="refresh" content="0;URL=http://www.yournewsite.com">

obviusly if the content is redundant this is ok but if there is stuff there that
needs to be access not the solution, so those pages will need to be incorporated
in to the new site, sounds very simple, did I get the question right?

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Erik Bennett
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 08:56
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Domain Names...


--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
I have an interesting query, and wonder if anyone on here has an answer for
me. :-)

I am the webmaster for about 20 schools, including the administration
office. Until we unified under one domain (www.ecasd.k12.wi.us) we had all
of the email and web going to separate addresses for the schools (i.e.
www.north.ecasd.k12.wi.us). Now everything is under one umbrella (except
individual pages) and there is a web domain out there
(www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us - the address for the administration building)
that only points to www.ecasd.k12.wi.us. I'm still seeing over 1100 requests
a day for that address, and we want to get rid of it eventually. Is there a
way for me to catch any requests going into www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us and
give them a page that says 'hey... our address has changed... bookmark the
new one, this one will expire in 30 days' or something like that?

I've heard (maybe) that there's a way to do this with apache. We,
unfortunately, are running IIS though. Any ideas? No idea is too much, I
have full access to the servers, and we tend to us ASP for any scripting.

Also, I wonder, would it just be easier to set it up on a site with nothing
in it and make the 404 custom page the redirect? Anyway... I'm curious to
see what people have to say! Thanks in advance!

Erik
------------------------------------------------------

      Erik Bennett
      ECASD Webmaster  Network Accounts
      ebennett at ecasd.k12.wi.us accounts at ecasd.k12.wi.us
      http://www.ecasd.k12.wi.us
http://www.ecasd.k12.wi.us/webmaster/accounts

      500 Main Street
      Eau Claire, WI 54701
     Phone:  715-839-6290 x551
      Fax:    715-833-3481


--

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From hassan at webtuitive.com  Thu Aug 15 09:40:01 2002
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Thu Aug 15 09:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Domain Names...
References: <000c01c243cc$af25bab0$3d0010ac@coawg110c01>
Message-ID: <3D5BBD20.5040203@webtuitive.com>

Erik Bennett wrote:

> Until we unified under one domain (www.ecasd.k12.wi.us) we had all
> of the email and web going to separate addresses for the schools (i.e.
> www.north.ecasd.k12.wi.us). Now everything is under one umbrella (except
> individual pages) and there is a web domain out there
> (www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us - the address for the administration building)
> that only points to www.ecasd.k12.wi.us. I'm still seeing over 1100 requests
> a day for that address, and we want to get rid of it eventually. Is there a
> way for me to catch any requests going into www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us and
> give them a page that says 'hey... our address has changed... bookmark the
> new one, this one will expire in 30 days' or something like that?

Perhaps I'm missing something, but is this not simply resolved
through DNS?

Just alias www.central.ecasd... to www.ecasd...

FWIW!
--
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

     -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --




From chris at webbtech.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 10:02:01 2002
From: chris at webbtech.co.uk (Chris Marsh)
Date: Thu Aug 15 10:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Web Hosting
In-Reply-To: <ICEPJABPMPGHLICPJCHFKEMBCBAA.contact@hepi.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000001c2446c$01a65570$effea8c0@development.idlenet.com>

Jason

> The best hosting package I have been able to find is at
> www.catalyst2.com.
> They really are very good - ASP, SQL2000, IIS5, MSXML, Register Custom
DLL,
> .Net,  mySQL, PHP4, Perl, CGI, lots of email accounts, secure SSL
folders
> and 5000mb packages.
>
> Also - if there is a feature that you want and it isn't part of a
package I
> think they'll generally try to sort it out for you.

Thanks for the recommendation. I have opened an account with Catalyst2,
and so far they have been very obliging.

Regards

Chris Marsh




From chris at webbtech.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 10:03:00 2002
From: chris at webbtech.co.uk (Chris Marsh)
Date: Thu Aug 15 10:03:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Number of records returned
Message-ID: <000101c2446c$a8dabf20$effea8c0@development.idlenet.com>

Dear All

I have the following code:

Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
objConn.Open Application("strConn")
strSQL = "SELECT *** FROM *** WHERE *** = 1"
Set objRS = objConn.Execute(strSQL)

I know that everything is working as it should, as I am getting the
correct data. However, before I actually start working with the data I
wish to find out how many records were returned. I tried:

objRS.RecordCount

which returned -1, even though I know that there are records there
because I could Response.Write them. Am I missing something fairly
obvious?

TIA

Regards

Chris Marsh




From davidu at everydns.net  Thu Aug 15 10:05:00 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David U.)
Date: Thu Aug 15 10:05:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
References: <3D5ABFA2.15730.14A5CFA@localhost> <7214553171.20020814202911@kfx-design.co.uk> <13713977548.20020814210622@airtightweb.com>
Message-ID: <009f01c2446d$3f79dbf0$3d19fc80@pravda>

Chris Montgomery wrote:
> Wednesday, August 14, 2002, 2:29:11 PM, ~kristina wrote:
>
> ~>   The bat! is king
>
> I wholeheartedly concur. I started out with Eudora back in 1995, then
> moved to Outlook about three years later. A few months ago, I tried
> several other email clients, including Mozilla Mail (which I found to
> be quite good) and PocoMail (kinda buggy). Ended up trying The Bat!
> and never looked back. I really liked Outlook's features, but tired of
> the constant security problems.

I disagree.  I used The Bat! for a long time but its IMAP support is totally
broken.  POP3 is a total pain to use for most people who have lots of
messages in their folders.  People who have 50,000 -- 200,000 emails just
can't use POP3.

Outlook Express is a TOTALLY different product than Outlook 2000 and has
some of the best IMAP support I've ever seen.  I virus scan on the mail
server (where one should) and I have never had any sort of virus get through
to my inbox.

On top of that, using IMAP lets me check my mail over the web, using mutt
over ssh, or any other way I want with all my folders and mail intact.  All
filtering is also done on the server which is a big plus.

If TheBat! would improve it's IMAP support it could be a contender in my
mind.  And on that note, I still check on PocoMail every few months and it
has great IMAP support but the interface is just a bit too buggy. (Mulberry
is good too for IMAP and I'm surprised no one has mentioned it)

-davidu




From K_HEYTINK at winebow.com  Thu Aug 15 10:06:00 2002
From: K_HEYTINK at winebow.com (Kathleen Heytink)
Date: Thu Aug 15 10:06:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
Message-ID: <06154D6549B7D5119FC100508BB02DED27AC94@nj10-exchange.winebow.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: .jeff [mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:19 PM


> i used it when i had a problem with outlook and found it
> *highly* annoying for the way i work.  it's signature
> "feature" is probably the most annoying aspect of the application.

I find it very easy to use.  I just type what I want in the create signature
box, name it then chose the one I want to use from the drop down box.  Much
easier than Outlook IMO.  I'm forced to use Outlook at work, so I've used
both.

> That it may, but it can't handle the volume of email that
> outlook can.

I've had it handle a few hundred e-mails per day.  Brings them, in sorts
them out, lets me me know which mailboxes have mail.  Couldn't ask for more.

> i find this aspect of eudora very difficult to use.  i like
> having the attachments with the message. i don't have to
> look at a folder full of attachments and try to figure out
> which email message a particular attachment belongs to.

Attachments are still with the message.  When I'm reading the message, I can
just click on the attached file icon and the appropriate program opens -
just like in Outlook.

> i dislike that attachment names are changed or a file by the
> same name is overwritten (can't recall which happens) if
> another file by the same name is already in the attachments
> directory.

I've never had a file name changed by Eudora.  If I get a second attachment
with the same name, Eudora adds a 1 or a 2 to differentiate and not
overwrite.  That's the only change.

Not trying to get you to change your e-mail client, but others who might
want to consider Eudora as an alternative should know the facts from a long
time and very satisfied user.

-- Kath Heytink
Web Designer
Winebow, Inc
www.winebow.com --


From chris at webbtech.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 10:16:01 2002
From: chris at webbtech.co.uk (Chris Marsh)
Date: Thu Aug 15 10:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Number of records returned (Solution)
In-Reply-To: <000101c2446c$a8dabf20$effea8c0@development.idlenet.com>
Message-ID: <000201c2446e$82257760$effea8c0@development.idlenet.com>

[..]

> Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
> objConn.Open Application("strConn")
> strSQL = "SELECT *** FROM *** WHERE *** = 1"
> Set objRS = objConn.Execute(strSQL)

Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
objConn.Open Application("strConn")
strSQL = "SELECT *** FROM *** WHERE *** = 1"
Set objRS = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.RecordSet")
objRS.ActiveConnection = objConn
objRS.CursorType = 3
objRS.Open strSQL

[..]

Tip owed...

Regards

Chris Marsh




From David at softv.net  Thu Aug 15 10:18:01 2002
From: David at softv.net (David at softv.net)
Date: Thu Aug 15 10:18:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Number of records returned
Message-ID: <353A2A1683F6D511B04C0002A551BBB82A5260@SOFTVMAIL>

Hi Chris,

It depends on the type of cursor that you have opened the recordset with.
You should use a keyset or static cursor. For example,

RS.Open SQL, Connection, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly

Also keep in mind that the recordset must be open at the time that you check
the recordcount property.

Dave
http://java.dbmdata.com





From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 15 10:34:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Aug 15 10:34:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Magenta new web authoring package
In-Reply-To: <KGEGLFFLEFELJCGMFNGGIELPCBAA.bwijers@bdisfunctional.net>
Message-ID: <20020815153340.99029.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>

No offense, but it doesn't look like it does anything that Flash
can't do, and not as well. Why learn something new when Flash is a
multimedia standard, and basically no special download...

my .02

Tom

--- BjornW <bwijers at bdisfunctional.net> wrote:

>
> The address:
> http://www.magentammt.com
>
> Greetz
> Bj?rn W


=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From ebennett at ecasd.k12.wi.us  Thu Aug 15 10:43:01 2002
From: ebennett at ecasd.k12.wi.us (Erik Bennett)
Date: Thu Aug 15 10:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Domain Names...
In-Reply-To: <3D5BBD20.5040203@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <000401c24472$45e34d00$3d0010ac@coawg110c01>

Hrrrm... I fear my first post wasn't clear enough...

I'm aware that I could put just a regular page up at
http://www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us/index.html with the redirect to
http://www.ecasd.k12.wi.us. In fact, that's what I was planning on doing.

What I was asking was, we want to stop using www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us
altogether, but like I said, I still have over 1,000 requests coming through
it a day, so I don't want to just turn it off completely.

What I want to do is set it up so that any request that comes through
www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us, whether it be
www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us/foo/bar.html or
www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us/bar/foo.html the user sees the redirect page
that states "www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us will no longer be used, blah blah
blah, update your bookmarks, blah, go here instead." Like I asked before,
would this be easier to take care of with the custom 404 page?

The 301 redirect solution provided is interesting. Does that have any
bearing on what I would like to do?

Also, reposting/rewording this question has raised another for me. Say I get
the single page to work, does anyone have a simple (preferably ASP, also
could be PERL) solution for pulling in the current URL typed in and
reformatting it to display on the page in the new format? (i.e.
www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us/bar/foo.html = www.ecasd.k12.wi.us/bar/foo.html)

Thanks for the replies, I hope my repost clarifies things a little better. I
have a tendency to be long-winded... :-)

Once again, we're an (unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your
viewpoint ;-) ) all MS shop, so we've got Microsoft NT 4/2K servers, IIS 4
and all that jazz. Only thing I insisted on also having was PERL, because
let's face it, how could I survive without it? :-)

Thanks in advance for any replies!

Erik

------------------------------------------------------
Erik Bennett
ECASD Webmaster				Network Accounts
ebennett at ecasd.k12.wi.us 		accounts at ecasd.k12.wi.us
http://www.ecasd.k12.wi.us		http://www.ecasd.k12.wi.us/webmaster/accounts

500 Main Street
Eau Claire, WI 54701
Phone:	715-839-6290 x551
Fax:		715-833-3481



From dbindel at austin.rr.com  Thu Aug 15 10:47:01 2002
From: dbindel at austin.rr.com (David Bindel)
Date: Thu Aug 15 10:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database
Message-ID: <KFEDKCDLJCPGIDGACLAOCENDCAAA.dbindel@austin.rr.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am making a website in which users who wish to sell a product online must
pay a $15 registration fee, and $5 for each item they sell after that.  I
have never used PayPal before, and I am wondering how I could integrate
PayPal with my user database to store the number of listing "credits" that
each user has purchased automatically.

TIA,
David Bindel
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 7.0.4

iQA/AwUBPVvM4Lwc2umqeOxSEQIoSwCeOB+/mZ08tBsknr4H60MaMmzhIoMAoINy
7P2Moo+t0JM9UTX1E7tkEhnD
=SPO+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From CDitty at email.usps.gov  Thu Aug 15 10:48:01 2002
From: CDitty at email.usps.gov (Chris Ditty)
Date: Thu Aug 15 10:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache 403 Forbidden error on index.cgi
Message-ID: <0033000076913376000002L062*@MHS>

Hello all,

I am having a problem getting a cgi script to execute in Apache 1.3.22.  I have
given all the proper permissions and I cannot get it to work.

In the httpd.conf file, I have the following settings.....
#
# This may also be "None", "All", or any combination of "Indexes",
# "Includes", "FollowSymLinks", "ExecCGI", or "MultiViews".
#
# Note that "MultiViews" must be named *explicitly* --- "Options All"
# doesn't give it to you.
#
    Options Indexes FollowSymLinks ExecCGI MultiViews

#
# This controls which options the .htaccess files in directories can
# override. Can also be "All", or any combination of "Options", "FileInfo",
# "AuthConfig", and "Limit"
#
    AllowOverride All

#
# Controls who can get stuff from this server.
#
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

I also have the DirectoryIndex set to accept index.cgi.

Does anyone have any advice or ideas on this?  I did a google search and nothing
I tried worked.

Chris


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 15 10:50:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Aug 15 10:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript question
In-Reply-To: <1683403167.20020815112924@ageofweb.ru>
Message-ID: <20020815154910.95521.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>

See my comments below:

--- Sergey 'the Eych' Smirnov <eych at ageofweb.ru> wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I have a problem passing certain parameter from one function to
> another in Javascript. Here is the story.
>
> I have a div on the page with id 'submenu'. On 'onmouseout' event i
> want to hide it. Also i want to wait for several hundred
> milliseconds
> before i do, so that the user will have time to point at it with a
> mouse
> (this is a simple dhtml popup menu).
>
> If i am right then the only way to ask the browser to wait is to
> use
> window.setTimeout("function()", millisecs) call.
>
> So i try the following:
>
> >> [code quote]
>
> function waitAndHide(id) {
>   timer = window.setTimeout('hideDiv('+id+')', 250);
> }
>
> function hideDiv(id) {
>   var element = getId(id);
>   if (element) {
>     (ns4) ? element.visibility = "hidden" :
> element.style.visibility = "hidden";
>   }
>   return false;
> }
>
> >> [/code quote]
>
> Now, id that is passed to waitAndHide is not an object - it is just
> a
> div id - a string. With getId() i am getting an object from 'id'
> and
> then i use it.
>
> But! For some strange reason id is not passed to hideDiv. It is
> defined and works ok inside waitAndHide() but it is undefined in
> hideDiv(). What might be the problem? What am i missing?
>
> Also, for another strange reason i found out that IE 6.0 thinks
> that
> 'id' is already an object inside waitAndHide and i can get id from
> it
> with 'id.id'. While Mozilla doesn't think that 'id' is an object
> and i
> just can't make it pass 'id' correctly to hideDiv.
>
> Any help will be appreciated.
>
> ---
> Sergey "the Eych" Smirnov
> One of the Stuffed Guys
> http://www.stuffedguys.com

I saw a couple of things. One way I work (I know some people don't
like it) is to get it working on one platform first, then add the
cross browser code (and I prefer object detection to browser
sniffing..thats another thread).

This works in IE. First the code:

--------------------
<html>
<head>
<script>

function waitAndHide(id) {
  timer = window.setTimeout("hideDiv('"+id+"')", 250);
}

function hideDiv(element) {
	var el = document.getElementById(element);
	el.style.visibility = "hidden";
}
</script>
<style>
#myDiv {visibility: visible;}
</style>
</head>

<body>
<div id="myDiv" onmouseout="waitAndHide(this.id)">Some stuff</div>
</body>
</html>
-------------------------------------


The first problem was in this line:

setTimeout("hideDiv('"+id+"')", 250);

you needed to quote the id to pass it as a string, but you only had

timer = window.setTimeout('hideDiv('+id+')', 250);

I believe since you only used single quotes all the way through the
expression, JS wasn't seeing the id as a string. Remember,
concatanation has to be done "outside" the expression as it were.
That's where color coding comes in helpful ;)

As someone else mentioned, you don't need the getID function. Just
pass the id using the this keyword (this.id) which works nicely.
Don't know what your target browsers are, so you may have to adjust
this or test it.

But you have something that works to start with :)

Tom


=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 10:53:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Thu Aug 15 10:53:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Domain Names...
In-Reply-To: <000401c24472$45e34d00$3d0010ac@coawg110c01>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCENPDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

In that case I think I would be right to say delete the whole site (take it all
down and back it up somewhere) and yes, customize a 404, not sure how long
search engines keep dead links on there engines?  I know I have had quite a few
come through before and the site in question has been down for about 18 months!

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Erik Bennett
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 04:42
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Domain Names...


Hrrrm... I fear my first post wasn't clear enough...

I'm aware that I could put just a regular page up at
http://www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us/index.html with the redirect to
http://www.ecasd.k12.wi.us. In fact, that's what I was planning on doing.

What I was asking was, we want to stop using www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us
altogether, but like I said, I still have over 1,000 requests coming through
it a day, so I don't want to just turn it off completely.

What I want to do is set it up so that any request that comes through
www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us, whether it be
www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us/foo/bar.html or
www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us/bar/foo.html the user sees the redirect page
that states "www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us will no longer be used, blah blah
blah, update your bookmarks, blah, go here instead." Like I asked before,
would this be easier to take care of with the custom 404 page?

The 301 redirect solution provided is interesting. Does that have any
bearing on what I would like to do?

Also, reposting/rewording this question has raised another for me. Say I get
the single page to work, does anyone have a simple (preferably ASP, also
could be PERL) solution for pulling in the current URL typed in and
reformatting it to display on the page in the new format? (i.e.
www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us/bar/foo.html = www.ecasd.k12.wi.us/bar/foo.html)

Thanks for the replies, I hope my repost clarifies things a little better. I
have a tendency to be long-winded... :-)

Once again, we're an (unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your
viewpoint ;-) ) all MS shop, so we've got Microsoft NT 4/2K servers, IIS 4
and all that jazz. Only thing I insisted on also having was PERL, because
let's face it, how could I survive without it? :-)

Thanks in advance for any replies!

Erik

------------------------------------------------------
Erik Bennett
ECASD Webmaster				Network Accounts
ebennett at ecasd.k12.wi.us 		accounts at ecasd.k12.wi.us
http://www.ecasd.k12.wi.us		http://www.ecasd.k12.wi.us/webmaster/accounts

500 Main Street
Eau Claire, WI 54701
Phone:	715-839-6290 x551
Fax:		715-833-3481

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 10:56:11 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Thu Aug 15 10:56:11 2002
Subject: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database
In-Reply-To: <KFEDKCDLJCPGIDGACLAOCENDCAAA.dbindel@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMENPDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

This is a really good question because I was trying to integrate PayPal into a
php cart and am getting no where fast, the only reason is that PayPal simply
takes a payment for a product or service and doesn't come back into your site
and yes please continue!  Maybe I am wrong but I have even contacted paypal and
they just refer you to a developers area which, to be frank, has nothing on it
other that products!

watching this one with interest ;)

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of David Bindel
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 04:47
To: The List
Subject: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am making a website in which users who wish to sell a product online must
pay a $15 registration fee, and $5 for each item they sell after that.  I
have never used PayPal before, and I am wondering how I could integrate
PayPal with my user database to store the number of listing "credits" that
each user has purchased automatically.

TIA,
David Bindel
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 7.0.4

iQA/AwUBPVvM4Lwc2umqeOxSEQIoSwCeOB+/mZ08tBsknr4H60MaMmzhIoMAoINy
7P2Moo+t0JM9UTX1E7tkEhnD
=SPO+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02



From hassan at webtuitive.com  Thu Aug 15 11:07:00 2002
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Thu Aug 15 11:07:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Domain Names...
References: <000401c24472$45e34d00$3d0010ac@coawg110c01>
Message-ID: <3D5BD18A.8040600@webtuitive.com>

Erik Bennett wrote:

> What I was asking was, we want to stop using www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us
> altogether, but like I said, I still have over 1,000 requests coming through
> it a day, so I don't want to just turn it off completely.
>
> What I want to do is set it up so that any request that comes through
> www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us, whether it be
> www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us/foo/bar.html or
> www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us/bar/foo.html the user sees the redirect page
> that states "www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us will no longer be used, blah blah
> blah, update your bookmarks, blah, go here instead."

Why? Why should they need to be bothered with this? If you change
the DNS record for www.central.ecasd... to www.ecasd... they'll
already be there :-)  So their bookmarks are "wrong" -- who cares?
They'll work for as long as you maintain that alias in your DNS
tables. There's no real overhead.

> Also, reposting/rewording this question has raised another for me. Say I get
> the single page to work, does anyone have a simple (preferably ASP, also
> could be PERL) solution for pulling in the current URL typed in and
> reformatting it to display on the page in the new format? (i.e.
> www.central.ecasd.k12.wi.us/bar/foo.html = www.ecasd.k12.wi.us/bar/foo.html)

Apache lets you define the returned server name in its config files
but I don't know how IIS handles returning the server name.

HTH!
--
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

     -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --




From pkaulbak at idirect.ca  Thu Aug 15 11:13:01 2002
From: pkaulbak at idirect.ca (Peter Kaulback)
Date: Thu Aug 15 11:13:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPMEKPGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020815092624.01c99ec0@mail.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020815120637.00ade600@mail.idirect.ca>

In the hour of 01:43 AM 8/15/2002 -0700, .jeff spoke this:

>how long can it possibly take to copy a single pst file from one machine
>to another?
>
>.jeff

If you have a large pst file then going to an XP machine can take a
horribly long time, going to any other version of windows is a lot faster.

One good thing for Eudora is that you can have your mail folders with no
apparent size limit while pst files top out at 1.8 gb (Outlook 2000 and 2002).

Lotus Notes R5 is very good with large mail box's too.

Peter Kaulback



From lists at pinetree.net  Thu Aug 15 11:17:04 2002
From: lists at pinetree.net (Oren Levin)
Date: Thu Aug 15 11:17:04 2002
Subject: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMENPDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <LPBBLPEJOJDELLBIKBMOIEHDDJAA.lists@pinetree.net>

You're looking for their instant payment notification.
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/xcl/rec/ipn-intro

Oren
-----
Oren Levin, Web Developer
olevin at audible.com, 973.837.2811
Give the gift of audio - http://www.audible.com/giftcenter


-----Original Message-----
This is a really good question because I was trying to integrate PayPal into
a
php cart and am getting no where fast, the only reason is that PayPal simply
takes a payment for a product or service and doesn't come back into your
site
and yes please continue!  Maybe I am wrong but I have even contacted paypal
and
they just refer you to a developers area which, to be frank, has nothing on
it
other that products!

watching this one with interest ;)

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
I am making a website in which users who wish to sell a product online must
pay a $15 registration fee, and $5 for each item they sell after that.  I
have never used PayPal before, and I am wondering how I could integrate
PayPal with my user database to store the number of listing "credits" that
each user has purchased automatically.

TIA,
David Bindel



From slewis at macrovista.net  Thu Aug 15 11:21:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Thu Aug 15 11:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Magenta new web authoring package
References: <KGEGLFFLEFELJCGMFNGGIELPCBAA.bwijers@bdisfunctional.net> <0bae01c24430$344c4d90$c703c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <3D5BD626.7050405@macrovista.net>

Richard Bennett wrote:

> It uses Python as a scripting language.
What do you have against Python!?

<tip author="Steve Lewis" topic="Working with important clients">
When working with important clients (important names you can use to get
later jobs) you must understand that the work agreement and outlined
project with cost may get thrown out.  If the client did not have an
internal consensus on the scope of the work they need, and the solutions
that will serve all parties, you may be given the opportunity to earn an
extra strong review by doing work outside the original scope, at likely
a higher price, on essentially the same time scale.  Be prepared
mentally so you don't let these opportunities pass you by.
</tip>



From ethanol at mathlab.sunysb.edu  Thu Aug 15 11:30:01 2002
From: ethanol at mathlab.sunysb.edu (Sean G.)
Date: Thu Aug 15 11:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Looking for info on units of measurement
In-Reply-To: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC480456@ireland.spinhead.com>
Message-ID: <PBEAKGFHGHNAHBAPLFODKEIHCAAA.ethanol@mathlab.sunysb.edu>

D'oh!

That actually hadn't occurred to me--though I plead 'act of god'.  Between the
311 (Kelvin) heat outside and the 14 degree (Reaumur) cold in the office thanks
to the company AC nazis, sometimes I feel like my head is in a storm front.

BTW, on re-reading the originating email, I think the goal might of been a site
with a list of units by country, i.e. USA uses the imperial system, Canada uses
metric, etc., rather than a list of all possible units without any division by
where they might be used.

That I do not have.  However OnlineConversion.com does have conversions for
clothing sizes in different countries.
<http://www.onlineconversion.com/clothing.htm>

HTH  =)


Sean G.


-----Original Message-----
P'raps he assumed we could pull it from the message header, as I did with yours
;)
Great linkage, by the way; thanks.
joel


#################################################################
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#################################################################
#####
#####
#####
#################################################################
#################################################################
#################################################################


From richardgray at onetel.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 11:32:00 2002
From: richardgray at onetel.co.uk (Rich Gray)
Date: Thu Aug 15 11:32:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMENPDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKACELGCKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>

I am currently integrating PayPal into a subscription based site using PHP.
The client used PayPal's IPN (Instant Payment Notification) feature for the
site so that validated payments are notified via a http POST directly to my
PHP handler script which then takes the necessary actions in the subscriber
database. You also need to tell PayPal which PHP script to call if the user
cancels out or confirms his payment as well as some other stuff. The
principle for shopping cart sites is very similar but a little less complex
in operation.

If you dig around the developer area there are some PDFs on the PayPal site
which give more info - - IMO the biggest problem with the PayPal integration
was the lack of a test server to test my scripts i.e. to test your scripts
you need to get your credit card out and make some real payments :( As a
result, I had to set up some emulation scripts to mimic PayPal which is not
exactly ideal.

There are some other useful PayPal developer resources out there and when I
eventually get back to my laptop I'll try and post some of the urls...

HTH
Cheers
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: 15 August 2002 16:58
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database


This is a really good question because I was trying to integrate PayPal into
a
php cart and am getting no where fast, the only reason is that PayPal simply
takes a payment for a product or service and doesn't come back into your
site
and yes please continue!  Maybe I am wrong but I have even contacted paypal
and
they just refer you to a developers area which, to be frank, has nothing on
it
other that products!

watching this one with interest ;)

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of David Bindel
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 04:47
To: The List
Subject: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am making a website in which users who wish to sell a product online must
pay a $15 registration fee, and $5 for each item they sell after that.  I
have never used PayPal before, and I am wondering how I could integrate
PayPal with my user database to store the number of listing "credits" that
each user has purchased automatically.

TIA,
David Bindel
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Version: PGP 7.0.4

iQA/AwUBPVvM4Lwc2umqeOxSEQIoSwCeOB+/mZ08tBsknr4H60MaMmzhIoMAoINy
7P2Moo+t0JM9UTX1E7tkEhnD
=SPO+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 11:36:06 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Thu Aug 15 11:36:06 2002
Subject: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLPEJOJDELLBIKBMOIEHDDJAA.lists@pinetree.net>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEOBDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

no what I meant was for the values of a form to be passed into a payment form
and  sent to paypal!  I can send a number of payment requests just the same as
anyone can, but to get a bespoke shop to integrate with paypal???

I have come across this

http://www.efficiente.co.uk/shop/shop.php

but it aint what I want I want my own shop to sen the final value not this one?

I think the original question was on a similiar line only after receiving
payment paypal returns giving permission to continue into the site via a
database session?

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Oren Levin
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 05:17
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database


You're looking for their instant payment notification.
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/xcl/rec/ipn-intro

Oren
-----
Oren Levin, Web Developer
olevin at audible.com, 973.837.2811
Give the gift of audio - http://www.audible.com/giftcenter


-----Original Message-----
This is a really good question because I was trying to integrate PayPal into
a
php cart and am getting no where fast, the only reason is that PayPal simply
takes a payment for a product or service and doesn't come back into your
site
and yes please continue!  Maybe I am wrong but I have even contacted paypal
and
they just refer you to a developers area which, to be frank, has nothing on
it
other that products!

watching this one with interest ;)

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
I am making a website in which users who wish to sell a product online must
pay a $15 registration fee, and $5 for each item they sell after that.  I
have never used PayPal before, and I am wondering how I could integrate
PayPal with my user database to store the number of listing "credits" that
each user has purchased automatically.

TIA,
David Bindel

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From kstevens89 at comcast.net  Thu Aug 15 11:37:00 2002
From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens)
Date: Thu Aug 15 11:37:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Host Question.
Message-ID: <a05111b03b98188940f46@[68.35.112.212]>

www.hostsave.com, has anyone heard of them and have a recommendation?
--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens

"Warning,
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons.
They will make you crunchy and eat you with ketchup."
-Unknown Author


From ben at inchima.com  Thu Aug 15 11:38:00 2002
From: ben at inchima.com (Ben Phillips)
Date: Thu Aug 15 11:38:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database
In-Reply-To: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKACELGCKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000301c2447a$1eba2610$0300a8c0@BS>

> If you dig around the developer area there are some PDFs on
> the PayPal site which give more info - - IMO the biggest
> problem with the PayPal integration was the lack of a test
> server to test my scripts i.e. to test your scripts you need
> to get your credit card out and make some real payments :( As
> a result, I had to set up some emulation scripts to mimic
> PayPal which is not exactly ideal.

i agree that this is a terrible decision by paypal not to provide
testing servers. however, i think they may have done it purposely, for
testing we had to actually make genuine payments. of course, these could
be refunded, but by then paypal had already creamed off their
transaction fees.

call me cynical...

benji.




From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 11:45:00 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Thu Aug 15 11:45:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database
In-Reply-To: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKACELGCKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCIEOCDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

excellent cheers Rich

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Rich Gray
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 05:31
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database


I am currently integrating PayPal into a subscription based site using PHP.
The client used PayPal's IPN (Instant Payment Notification) feature for the
site so that validated payments are notified via a http POST directly to my
PHP handler script which then takes the necessary actions in the subscriber
database. You also need to tell PayPal which PHP script to call if the user
cancels out or confirms his payment as well as some other stuff. The
principle for shopping cart sites is very similar but a little less complex
in operation.

If you dig around the developer area there are some PDFs on the PayPal site
which give more info - - IMO the biggest problem with the PayPal integration
was the lack of a test server to test my scripts i.e. to test your scripts
you need to get your credit card out and make some real payments :( As a
result, I had to set up some emulation scripts to mimic PayPal which is not
exactly ideal.

There are some other useful PayPal developer resources out there and when I
eventually get back to my laptop I'll try and post some of the urls...

HTH
Cheers
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: 15 August 2002 16:58
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database


This is a really good question because I was trying to integrate PayPal into
a
php cart and am getting no where fast, the only reason is that PayPal simply
takes a payment for a product or service and doesn't come back into your
site
and yes please continue!  Maybe I am wrong but I have even contacted paypal
and
they just refer you to a developers area which, to be frank, has nothing on
it
other that products!

watching this one with interest ;)

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of David Bindel
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 04:47
To: The List
Subject: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am making a website in which users who wish to sell a product online must
pay a $15 registration fee, and $5 for each item they sell after that.  I
have never used PayPal before, and I am wondering how I could integrate
PayPal with my user database to store the number of listing "credits" that
each user has purchased automatically.

TIA,
David Bindel
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 7.0.4

iQA/AwUBPVvM4Lwc2umqeOxSEQIoSwCeOB+/mZ08tBsknr4H60MaMmzhIoMAoINy
7P2Moo+t0JM9UTX1E7tkEhnD
=SPO+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
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the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

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From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 11:46:00 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Thu Aug 15 11:46:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database
In-Reply-To: <000301c2447a$1eba2610$0300a8c0@BS>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEOCDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

My views too...

Andrew



i agree that this is a terrible decision by paypal not to provide
testing servers. however, i think they may have done it purposely, for
testing we had to actually make genuine payments. of course, these could
be refunded, but by then paypal had already creamed off their
transaction fees.

call me cynical...

benji.




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02



From wade_lists at runstrong.com  Thu Aug 15 11:48:01 2002
From: wade_lists at runstrong.com (Wade Armstrong)
Date: Thu Aug 15 11:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Number of records returned (Solution)
In-Reply-To: <000201c2446e$82257760$effea8c0@development.idlenet.com>
Message-ID: <B981290E.275D3%wade_lists@runstrong.com>

on 8/15/02 8:14 AM, Chris Marsh at chris at webbtech.co.uk wrote:

> [..]
>
>> Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
>> objConn.Open Application("strConn")
>> strSQL = "SELECT *** FROM *** WHERE *** = 1"
>> Set objRS = objConn.Execute(strSQL)
>
> Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
> objConn.Open Application("strConn")
> strSQL = "SELECT *** FROM *** WHERE *** = 1"
> Set objRS = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.RecordSet")
> objRS.ActiveConnection = objConn
> objRS.CursorType = 3
> objRS.Open strSQL
>

<tip type="asp, getting recordcount">
It's easy to get the count of records in a recordset returned by a query.
But don't set the CursorType to adOpenStatic (3) to get the correct
.RecordCount. That's very expensive! Instead use the good old
adOpenForwardOnly cursor (the default) and use GetRows to load your
recordset into an array, as in:

Set objConn = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
objConn.Open Application("strConn")
strSQL = "SELECT field FROM table WHERE field = condition"
Set objRS = objConn.Execute(strSQL)
arrRS = objRS.GetRows
Set objRS = Nothing 'you can now clean up because you've used GetRows
objConn.Close
Set objConn = Nothing

Now, the count of total records is the upper bound of arrRS:
lngCount = Ubound(arrRS, 2)
</tip>




From r937 at interlog.com  Thu Aug 15 12:18:10 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Thu Aug 15 12:18:10 2002
Subject: [thelist] ASP.net and the Calender control
Message-ID: <01c2447f$9778b1c0$1a5e1dd1@rudy>

>Does anyone have any ideas?

since datetimes are stored in the database as integers (i.e. in no
specified format), what it all comes down to is formatting the date for
display purposes, and how the database recognizes date format strings on
input

why not display it as yyyy-mm-dd, and then there's no ambiguity if it gets
posted back into the database


rudy



From magic32 at jps.net  Thu Aug 15 12:33:01 2002
From: magic32 at jps.net (Roger Harness)
Date: Thu Aug 15 12:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Host Question.
In-Reply-To: <20020815170339.173DE3A8A@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCEEECLGAA.magic32@jps.net>

Kid, I used to use them a couple of years ago just for experimenting etc,
and never had any problems. But they don't allow any MySQL stuff or 'direct
server access', so now I use http://www.icdsoft.com/ which DOES allow
database fun and 'direct server access' through SSH. There support has
always been fantastic for any questions i've ever had. And normally I'd say
phenominal uptime for the server i'm on, but actually yesterday it seemed to
be down for a few hours. :( But other then that, everything seems cool.
Maybe something to check out, if ya dont hear enough about hostsave.

hth's some,

-Roger Harenss

>>www.hostsave.com, has anyone heard of them and have a recommendation?



From hutton.billy at verizon.net  Thu Aug 15 12:41:01 2002
From: hutton.billy at verizon.net (William Hutton)
Date: Thu Aug 15 12:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS White-space
Message-ID: <20020815174028.VBYX9549.out019.verizon.net@out019>

I have a very large text string, varchar(4000), in a SQL database that I'd like to display.  Here's the problem;

If I place it inside a <p> tag, I lose the text formatting in the string; spaces, carriage returns, line-feeds, etc.

If I place it inside a <pre> tag, I get the test formatting, but I lose the word-wrap.  :(

After doing some research, as best as I can tell, an in-line style sheet for the <p> tag would fix my problem, but I can't seem to get it to work.  Here's the page I found;

   http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/css/properties/text/whitespace.htm

And it seems that the following should accomplish what I need;

<p STYLE="white-space: -pre-wrap">foo</p>

However, even this simple test doesn't seem to work;

<p style="white-space: pre">
This should be preformatted text;

   But is it?
   Is it?!
</p>

If I change the <p> tags to <pre>, the text displays with the propper formatting.  I wanted to see if ANY of the white-space style sheet attributes worked.  I think these are supposed to be supported in HTML 4.0, and IE5.5+.  I'm using IE6.

Anyone have a suggestion?  Either to get this to work, or some other way to accomplish my goal?

Thanks,
Will



From evolt at brasscannon.net  Thu Aug 15 13:03:01 2002
From: evolt at brasscannon.net (Kevin Martin)
Date: Thu Aug 15 13:03:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database
In-Reply-To: <20020815170339.173DE3A8A@relay.evolt.org>; from thelist-request@lists.evolt.org on Thu, Aug 15, 2002 at 12:03:39PM -0500
References: <20020815170339.173DE3A8A@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <20020815140206.A26392@brasscannon.net>

Quoth the "Andrew Maynes" <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk>
>
> This is a really good question because I was trying to integrate PayPal into a
> php cart and am getting no where fast, the only reason is that PayPal simply
> takes a payment for a product or service and doesn't come back into your site
> and yes please continue!

I was Googling for "free shopping cart" just a couple of days ago* and
practically tripped over a PayPal-based cart that at least handles the
"yes, the transaction has been submitted and processed" part for you.
Sorry I don't have the exact URL, but it stood out pretty well. :-/

(*My partner is about ready to launch a modest online bookstore, so I'm
going to be sweating PHP bullets pretty soon myself.  Wish us luck!)

By the way -- I also tripped over ANOTHER free cart that is frightening.
It uses formmail.pl to send completed transactions, but because the
security updates in formmail 1.9 broke his code, he's distributing an
OLD COPY of formmail.  Arrrgh!


From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 15 13:08:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Aug 15 13:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <06154D6549B7D5119FC100508BB02DED27AC94@nj10-exchange.winebow.com>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPOEMHGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

kath,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Kathleen Heytink
>
> > i used it when i had a problem with outlook and found
> > it *highly* annoying for the way i work.  it's
> > signature "feature" is probably the most annoying
> > aspect of the application.
>
> I find it very easy to use.  I just type what I want in
> the create signature box, name it then chose the one I
> want to use from the drop down box.  Much easier than
> Outlook IMO.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

how is that any different from outlook?

i find the fact that it inserts an html horizontal rule between my signature and the body of the message disturbing.  i dislike the fact that it says i'm creating a message in plaintext, but i'm forced to use a wysiwyg editor of sorts (with all the html stuff turned off).

i find the fact that i can't use more than one signature very unproductive.  you see, i use signatures for more than just the block of identifying fluff at the bottom of the message.  i also use a signature for the separator between replied text and my own response (you didn't think i typed that every time did ya?).

eudora makes it impossible for me to work efficiently in this way.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> I'm forced to use Outlook at work, so I've used both.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

for the record, i know too much about eudora, nn4 mail, outlook express, and outlook.  when i first started out i used eudora 3.  i used it for a year+ before switching to nn4 mail.  i used that for a year+ before i switched to outlook express.  i used that for a couple of years before switching to outlook and have been using outlook for over 2 years now and have never looked back.

about 6 months ago the pst file for outlook got corrupted so i was stuck having to use another email client.  i decided to take a look at eudora again.  i couldn't stop using it quick enough.  i know there were other things about it that annoyed me, but i'm not going to use it again to find out.   ;p

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > That it may, but it can't handle the volume of email
> > that outlook can.
>
> I've had it handle a few hundred e-mails per day.
> Brings them, in sorts them out, lets me me know which
> mailboxes have mail.  Couldn't ask for more.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

i'm not talking about the amount of mail you receive in a day though i did notice problems with the thousand plus messages i receive in a day.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > i find this aspect of eudora very difficult to use.
> > i like having the attachments with the message. i
> > don't have to look at a folder full of attachments
> > and try to figure out which email message a particular
> > attachment belongs to.
>
> Attachments are still with the message.  When I'm reading
> the message, I can just click on the attached file icon
> and the appropriate program opens - just like in Outlook.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

what happens if you move the attachment to another folder?

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > i dislike that attachment names are changed or a file
> > by the same name is overwritten (can't recall which
> > happens) if another file by the same name is already
> > in the attachments directory.
>
> I've never had a file name changed by Eudora.  If I get
> a second attachment with the same name, Eudora adds a 1
> or a 2 to differentiate and not overwrite.  That's the
> only change.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

still just as annoying.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> Not trying to get you to change your e-mail client, but
> others who might want to consider Eudora as an
> alternative should know the facts from a long time and
> very satisfied user.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

and not trying to get you to change your email client either, but others who are considering eudora should know the facts from a long time and very dis-satisfied user.

just my 2?,

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov  Thu Aug 15 13:14:01 2002
From: Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov (Jonathan_A_McPherson at rl.gov)
Date: Thu Aug 15 13:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS White-space
Message-ID: <C6B2C319C76C7A498CC6AE908EAEC5C3EA2405@apexch10.rl.gov>

> Anyone have a suggestion?  Either to get this to work, or some other way
to accomplish my goal?

I've always gotten around this by replacing raw linefeeds from the SQL
database with the "<br />" tag. In ASP, this is something like (you'll need
adovbs.inc):

Replace(myText, vbNewLine, "<br />")

In CF, it's something like

Replace(myText, Chr(13) & Chr(10), "<br />", "ALL")

This preserves the paragraphs and lines and still allows the text to flow
and word-wrap as desired. It's a nice compromise (IMHO).

--
Jonathan McPherson, LMIT/SD&I
Software Engineer & Web Systems Analyst
email / jonathan_a_mcpherson at rl dot gov


From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 13:30:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Thu Aug 15 13:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database LINK
In-Reply-To: <20020815140206.A26392@brasscannon.net>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEOFDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

came across this link
http://www.perl-studio.com/php/paypal/paypal_test.php
 and
http://www.paypal.ukshoppers.com/paypal_code_and_ipn.html

there's quite a lot there...

Andrew
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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From kstevens89 at comcast.net  Thu Aug 15 13:40:01 2002
From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens)
Date: Thu Aug 15 13:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPOEMHGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPOEMHGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <a05111b00b981a5355043@[68.35.112.212]>

You appear to be the only one that has anything negative to say
about.  I could argue all the problems you point out as user problems
as I have had none of them and all the companies I brought over to
Eudora love it and I get none of those complaints.

At 11:07 AM -0700 8/15/02, .jeff wrote:
>
>just my 2?,
>
>.jeff
>


--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens

"Warning,
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons.
They will make you crunchy and eat you with ketchup."
-Unknown Author


From davidu at everydns.net  Thu Aug 15 13:51:01 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David U.)
Date: Thu Aug 15 13:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
References: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPOEMHGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org> <a05111b00b981a5355043@[68.35.112.212]>
Message-ID: <001101c2448c$eded3050$3d19fc80@pravda>

Kid Stevens wrote:
> You appear to be the only one that has anything negative to say
> about.  I could argue all the problems you point out as user problems
> as I have had none of them and all the companies I brought over to
> Eudora love it and I get none of those complaints.

I hate Eudora too. Jeff just pointed out the most basic of problems with it
so well that I didn't feel the need to reply.

-davidu

>
> At 11:07 AM -0700 8/15/02, .jeff wrote:
>>
>> just my 2?,
>>
>> .jeff
>>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Kid Stevens
>
> "Warning,
> Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons.
> They will make you crunchy and eat you with ketchup."
> -Unknown Author




From slewis at macrovista.net  Thu Aug 15 13:59:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Thu Aug 15 13:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
References: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPOEMHGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org> <a05111b00b981a5355043@[68.35.112.212]>
Message-ID: <3D5BFB1C.30901@macrovista.net>

Kid Stevens wrote:
> You appear to be the only one that has anything negative to say
> about.  I could argue all the problems you point out as user problems

If that is the way you see it, than let me point out that I have nothing
good to say for Eudora so I have been saying nothing at all.

Where I have problems: message composition, address book, signatures,
attachments, application speed, configuration .... I'll stop now.

I liked The Bat, but I last used it way back in beta.  It was buggy as
hell, but I loved where it was going.

I get by with Mozilla mail now, but wont be happy until the digital
signiture/encryption plugin is complete. (the only thing I would say
Eudora really had going for it)

</rant>

--Steve



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 15 14:07:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Aug 15 14:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020815120637.00ade600@mail.idirect.ca>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPGEMOGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

peter,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Peter Kaulback
>
> If you have a large pst file then going to an XP machine
> can take a horribly long time, going to any other
> version of windows is a lot faster.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

that doesn't sound right at all.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> One good thing for Eudora is that you can have your mail
> folders with no apparent size limit while pst files top
> out at 1.8 gb (Outlook 2000 and 2002).
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

eudora may not have a programmed upper limit, but it certainly can't handle files as large as outlook, at least not to successfully import them anyway.  i tried countless times to import my outlook pst file into eudora in the hopes of having all my mail in one place.  i was never successful.  eudora always crapped out.

i'd be curious to know where you found the information about the upper limit on pst file size for outlook.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From dave at state51.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 14:08:00 2002
From: dave at state51.co.uk (david currey)
Date: Thu Aug 15 14:08:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] get height of div with js after changing it?
Message-ID: <A7D8E300-B081-11D6-A3AA-003065A20D92@state51.co.uk>

hi,

is there any way to retrieve the height of a div after it has been
changed (made taller) from a document.write or innerhtml.

eg.

a div is empty and it is 300px tall. using:

a=document.getElementById("Layer1").style.height
alert(a)

gives me 300px

but after i call a script which changes the div (innerhtml) and makes it
taller, the value returned to me is still 300px. is there anyway to get
the 'new' height.

thanks

dave



From amy at rocky-hills.com  Thu Aug 15 14:10:01 2002
From: amy at rocky-hills.com (Amy Johnson)
Date: Thu Aug 15 14:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check please http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k
Message-ID: <MBBBKCIHDGAIONCKNKJJCEDJCDAA.amy@rocky-hills.com>

Hi all.  I've got a problem!  I need to have this website done tomorrow (Friday) and I have just heard that it's a mess on Macintosh
IE5.  I do not have IE5 (cannot install it now that I have IE6) and I do not have a Macintosh.  This is my first CSS tableless
website and boy am I in trouble!  I guess I need to know which platforms have a problem.

http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k

Thanks.
Yikes.

Amy




From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Thu Aug 15 14:20:01 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Thu Aug 15 14:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] get height of div with js after changing it?
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BAA1@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: david currey [mailto:dave at state51.co.uk]
> Sent: August 15, 2002 3:03 PM

> but after i call a script which changes the div (innerhtml)
> and makes it taller, the value returned to me is still 300px.
> is there anyway to get the 'new' height.

Theoretically, what you're doing should work, for example, if
DIV[id="test"] has the height declared inline (or via JS), this finds
both the old and new value:
 nObj = document.getElementById("test")
 alert(nObj.style.height)
 nObj.style.height = "400px"
 alert(nObj.style.height)

Although I'm not sure, I'm guessing the "innerHTML" might be causing the
problem.

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 15 14:22:06 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Aug 15 14:22:06 2002
Subject: [thelist] get height of div with js after changing it?
In-Reply-To: <A7D8E300-B081-11D6-A3AA-003065A20D92@state51.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPIEMPGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

david,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: david currey
>
> is there any way to retrieve the height of a div after
> it has been changed (made taller) from a document.write
> or innerhtml.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

look into the clientHeight, offsetHeight, and pixelHeight properties.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 15 14:25:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Aug 15 14:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] get height of div with js after changing it?
In-Reply-To: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BAA1@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPCENAGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

craig,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Saila, Craig
>
> Theoretically, what you're doing should work, for
> example, if DIV[id="test"] has the height declared
> inline (or via JS), this finds both the old and new
> value:
>  nObj = document.getElementById("test")
>  alert(nObj.style.height)
>  nObj.style.height = "400px"
>  alert(nObj.style.height)
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

this example works because you're explicitly setting the new height value.  however, if the height is changed because the contents of the object change, forcing it to grow, the height property will not reflect the new height.  the same thing happens if you specify a height in css less than the height of the contents of an object.  grabbing that value from scripting will give you the height set in css and not the actual height.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From eric.engelmann at geonetric.com  Thu Aug 15 14:43:01 2002
From: eric.engelmann at geonetric.com (Eric Engelmann)
Date: Thu Aug 15 14:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPGEMOGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <BKEMLDOEKDPCPNKCIFKNEEFNKDAA.eric.engelmann@geonetric.com>

<snip>
i'd be curious to know where you found the information about the upper limit
on pst file size for outlook.
</snip>

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;Q288283&
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;Q296088&

I'm an Outlook fan. But I had no idea of this problem until I lost 2GB of
email from the last couple of years. It would be super easy to write code
prompting me to archive stuff if the pst was nearing 2GB, I would think, but
no such deal.

I tried a handful of fixes, some from MS, and some from other people, and I
never did get it back. Ever. Lesson learned.

- Eric






From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Thu Aug 15 14:45:01 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Thu Aug 15 14:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] get height of div with js after changing it?
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BAA2@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: .jeff [mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org]
> Sent: August 15, 2002 3:26 PM

> contents of the object change, forcing it to grow, the height
> property will not reflect the new height.  the same thing
> happens if you specify a height in css less than the height

That makes sense. I had interpreted David's "change" as being the actual
height property, not the contents of the DIV. Either way, you're method
seems a great way of doing what he needs.

FYI, the W3C DOM-compliant way (which is only supported by Gecko-based
browsers) to get the height of DIV[id="test"] as it is affected by
content is:
 nObj = document.getElementById("test");

alert(document.defaultView.getComputedStyle(nObj,"").getPropertyValue("h
eight"))

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 15 14:51:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Aug 15 14:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] DOM methods (was js change div)
In-Reply-To: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BAA2@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <20020815195034.92506.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Saila, Craig" <Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com> wrote:

> FYI, the W3C DOM-compliant way (which is only supported by
> Gecko-based
> browsers) to get the height of DIV[id="test"] as it is affected by
> content is:
>  nObj = document.getElementById("test");
>
>
alert(document.defaultView.getComputedStyle(nObj,"").getPropertyValue("h
> eight"))

Speaking of DOM related methods... have many of you done DOM/JS
programming out there?

I recently used it to build a little script to highlight a row (which
another evolter nicely modified to make even better.) In some ways,
the DOM way of accessing things is real nice..

But - you totally leave out the non DOM browsers. Plus, some of the
references can be really hairy, and the kicker is - GOOD
documentation on the DOM seems scant, as far as a programmers
resource.

I am aware of the Mozilla one, but its for Mozilla, and its not a
super helpful reference. I've got some DOM stuff in Danny Goodmans JS
book which is okay - but not great. Wonder what you all thought.

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 15 14:52:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Aug 15 14:52:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
Message-ID: <20020815195128.38782.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>

(This is a cross-post, posted on MACCAWS, but I know lots of folks
here are not members there, and I wanted to get some opinions here
too.)

---------

One thing we are going to have to tackle is telling our "bosses" why
XHTML is a Good Thing(TM).

I wondered if we could brainstorm a bit on this, not only for
ourselves, but since I may have to make this case soon where I am
employed.

So we know the basics are:

1. XHTML is good clean markup. (That's great, but my boss won't jump
up and down about it - he doesn't give a rat's pa-tootie that its
well formed.)

2. valid XHTML is valid XML. Ok, great - sounds good - but WHY is
this good for my BOSS? What are some reasons I can give the business
guy to move them in that direction? You can parse XHTML with an xml
parser right? So what? What does that get him? That's what we will be
asked. In effect, what is the ROI for XHTML? (eek, acronym pain)

3. XHTML is cleaner to maintain. Certainly we can say, this reduces
maintenance costs.

Its a start..what would you add?


tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From brian at brianreaves.com  Thu Aug 15 14:52:41 2002
From: brian at brianreaves.com (Brian W. Reaves)
Date: Thu Aug 15 14:52:41 2002
Subject: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database
Message-ID: <FCEEIMDAEEKOMKBEPPILOEHMCPAA.brian@brianreaves.com>

<snip>
You're looking for their instant payment notification.
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/xcl/rec/ipn-intro

Oren
</snip>

I want to add a PayPal process to a site which accepts deposits from renters
and holds it on behave of owners. After a given time period the renter will
request a refund. If the owner grants the refund, the site will process the
refund. If the owner refuses the refund it is sent to the owner. We estimate
the volume on the site to be too large to handle a manual process.

Any ideas on how PayPal can be incorporated or another system that can work
in this manor, please send...

TIA,
Brian




From ebennett at ecasd.k12.wi.us  Thu Aug 15 14:54:01 2002
From: ebennett at ecasd.k12.wi.us (Erik Bennett)
Date: Thu Aug 15 14:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Security & Being a Webmaster
Message-ID: <001f01c24495$602860b0$3d0010ac@coawg110c01>

I have a couple of questions I wanted to put to the community about security
from a webmaster's point of view and hopefully get some ideas on what I'm
asking.

I deal with ~35 websites for our school district. I'm not involved in the
everyday design and maintenance per se... but I am responsible for
maintaining all of the logs. In doing so, some questions have been raised in
my mind.

NIMDA & Code Red II - Right now, I'm logging between 100 & 200 hits from
these a day. I've noticed a trend though in my logs... And since I don't
know much about how each of these work, maybe the answer is right in front
of me. Code Red II usually comes in one hit/one website a day from multiple
IP addresses. Rarely do I see a Code Red II scan hit more than one of our
sites from the same IP. NIMDA on the other hand, I've notice two distinct
differences. In one instance, a NIMDA scan will hit all of our web sites
once from one IP, or it will hit one of our web sites ~16 times looking for
different exploits. What I'm curious is, are those two differences the
difference between a computer infected with NIMDA and someone looking to
exploit holes in a NIMDA affected server?

Consequently, all of this logging has raised other issues in my mind. I use
Analog & ReportMagic to format my logs, and QuickDNS to resolve the IPs. For
those IPs that don't resolve, I use Name.Space's sWhois to find the IP block
owner. Now NIMDA and Code Red II are not the only hits we get, we also get
hit with people looking for formmail exploits. My second question is this:
Do I have a responsibility to let someone know when a NIMDA/Code
Red/formmail comes from their IP address? As it stands now, I have been
letting the ISP's know of the formmail attempts since this is a deliberate
scan of our system. But the sheer volume of Code Red II/NIMDA hits would add
hours of emailing to my day. How do any of you on the list handle this kind
of stuff?

Kinda long-winded - here's a summary of my questions:

1. Is there a difference in the types of scans I get hit with from NIMDA or
Code Red II that can tell me whether it's the virus or someone looking to
exploit?
2. Do I have a responsibility to let someone know when a NIMDA/Code
Red/formmail comes from their IP address?
3. How do any of you that have to deal with logs like this handle these
situations?

Thanks in advance guys. I always appreciate the help and insights!

Erik


------------------------------------------------------
Erik Bennett
ECASD Webmaster			Network Accounts
ebennett at ecasd.k12.wi.us	accounts at ecasd.k12.wi.us
http://www.ecasd.k12.wi.us	http://www.ecasd.k12.wi.us/webmaster/accounts

500 Main Street			Phone: 715-839-6290 x551
Eau Claire, WI 54701		Fax:    715-833-3481



From kstevens89 at comcast.net  Thu Aug 15 14:55:01 2002
From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens)
Date: Thu Aug 15 14:55:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <001101c2448c$eded3050$3d19fc80@pravda>
References: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPOEMHGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
 <a05111b00b981a5355043@[68.35.112.212]> <001101c2448c$eded3050$3d19fc80@pravda>
Message-ID: <a05111b01b981b4d7fd30@[68.35.112.212]>

I will be honest I never had any of those problems Mac or PC(95/98/NT4/2000).

Plus as my work machine changes I bring mail from the MAC over to the
PC and import it and then back again later.  Usually when I have a PC
I am on the road and it is a laptop.  So I shut down mail on my Mac
until I return.  That is why the constant conversion.

My webmaster, HWG list and Alpha list mail boxes were over 60 Megs
each at one time.  I found that by opening a .pst from windows in
Alpha on the Mac that the PST file was full of wasted space adding to
the time to convert, since Eudora upon conversion compresses the
space.

No, I don't work for Qualcomm either.

At 1:52 PM -0500 8/15/02, David U. wrote:
>Kid Stevens wrote:
>>  You appear to be the only one that has anything negative to say
>>  about.  I could argue all the problems you point out as user problems
>>  as I have had none of them and all the companies I brought over to
>>  Eudora love it and I get none of those complaints.
>
>I hate Eudora too. Jeff just pointed out the most basic of problems with it
>so well that I didn't feel the need to reply.
>
>-davidu
>
>>
>>  At 11:07 AM -0700 8/15/02, .jeff wrote:
>>>
>>>  just my 2?,
>>>
>>>  .jeff
>>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Sincerely,
>>  Kid Stevens
>>
>>  "Warning,
>>  Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons.
>>  They will make you crunchy and eat you with ketchup."
>>  -Unknown Author
>
>
>--
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens

"Warning,
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons.
They will make you crunchy and eat you with ketchup."
-Unknown Author


From brian at brianreaves.com  Thu Aug 15 14:56:01 2002
From: brian at brianreaves.com (Brian W. Reaves)
Date: Thu Aug 15 14:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS S/W, Which Do you Like?
Message-ID: <FCEEIMDAEEKOMKBEPPILCEHNCPAA.brian@brianreaves.com>

Any input on http://westciv.com/ &
http://www.bradsoft.com/topstyle/index.asp? I have used TopStyles but not
Westciv.

TIA,
Brian




From kaye at cisny.com  Thu Aug 15 14:56:14 2002
From: kaye at cisny.com (Art Kaye)
Date: Thu Aug 15 14:56:14 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check please http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k
In-Reply-To: <MBBBKCIHDGAIONCKNKJJCEDJCDAA.amy@rocky-hills.com>
Message-ID: <F903049B-B088-11D6-BF5D-0030656C5858@cisny.com>

On Thursday, August 15, 2002, at 03:12  PM, Amy Johnson wrote:

> Hi all.  I've got a problem!  I need to have this website done tomorrow
> (Friday) and I have just heard that it's a mess on Macintosh
> IE5.  I do not have IE5 (cannot install it now that I have IE6) and I
> do not have a Macintosh.  This is my first CSS tableless
> website and boy am I in trouble!  I guess I need to know which
> platforms have a problem.
>
> http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k
>
>
Would you like me to send you a screenshot?

Art



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 15 14:59:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Aug 15 14:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS S/W, Which Do you Like?
In-Reply-To: <FCEEIMDAEEKOMKBEPPILCEHNCPAA.brian@brianreaves.com>
Message-ID: <20020815195839.18859.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Brian W. Reaves" <brian at brianreaves.com> wrote:
> Any input on http://westciv.com/ &
> http://www.bradsoft.com/topstyle/index.asp? I have used TopStyles
> but not
> Westciv.
>
> TIA,
> Brian

A further question I have on this is why use a CSS sw? Coding
everything by hand, why would I want to use an editor? I've heard
something about warning you if something may not work?? Just curious.

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From framar at interlog.com  Thu Aug 15 14:59:25 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Thu Aug 15 14:59:25 2002
Subject: [thelist] CF: Moving a struct to a session.var
In-Reply-To: <003601c24455$acd4a080$6561a8c0@vader>
References: <003601c24455$acd4a080$6561a8c0@vader>
Message-ID: <179337444689.20020815155847@interlog.com>

Thursday, August 15, 2002, 8:17:01 AM, you wrote:

R> (Sorry for being anal. ;)

I don't worry about this at all. As a matter of fact, I see
it as a blessing. It's my goal to be the very best
programmer that I can possibly be. What you might call being
'anal' I see it as being accurate, thorough and
professional. My skills are currently racheting up to
another level, and so I take these tidbits to heart. (I'm
also learning to spend *a lot* more time in the archives
<g>). So, thanks, keep 'em coming for as long as you care
to!

--
Frank Marion,
framar at interlog.com





From amy at rocky-hills.com  Thu Aug 15 15:02:01 2002
From: amy at rocky-hills.com (Amy Johnson)
Date: Thu Aug 15 15:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check please http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k - Try again
Message-ID: <MBBBKCIHDGAIONCKNKJJMEDJCDAA.amy@rocky-hills.com>

I just realized I put the old version of the page up.  I've replaced it with the newer version (which has better CSS).  Funny how
panic can cause stupid mistakes.  Sorry all.

Amy


> Hi all.  I've got a problem!  I need to have this website done tomorrow (Friday) and I have just heard that it's a mess on
Macintosh
> IE5.  I do not have IE5 (cannot install it now that I have IE6) and I do
not have a Macintosh.  This is my first CSS tableless
> website and boy am I in trouble!  I guess I need to know which platforms
have a problem.
>
> http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k
>
> Thanks.
> Yikes.
>
> Amy
>




From Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com  Thu Aug 15 15:04:01 2002
From: Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com (Saila, Craig)
Date: Thu Aug 15 15:04:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] DOM methods (was js change div)
Message-ID: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BAA3@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Dell'Aringa [mailto:pixelmech at yahoo.com]
> Sent: August 15, 2002 3:51 PM

> But - you totally leave out the non DOM browsers. Plus, some of the

Yup, but when I use it, I tend to not be supporting those browsers...

> references can be really hairy, and the kicker is - GOOD

I don't know, it all depends on what you're used to. After a while, the
DOM way feels natural to me. Supposes it's the same as CSS-based design
vs. table.  One is easier to do, but the other is more powerful and
flexible once you get used to it.

Granted, some non-compliant things (like "innerHTML") can be a great
quick fix that saves much lines of script.

> documentation on the DOM seems scant, as far as a programmers
> resource.

Scott Andrew LePera has some excellent articles/tutorials available at
his site, I highly recommend it as a first stop:
<http://www.scottandrew.com/>
(look down the left nav for the links)

--
Cheers,

Craig Saila
------------------------------------------
craig at saila.com : http://www.saila.com/
------------------------------------------


From framar at interlog.com  Thu Aug 15 15:06:00 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Thu Aug 15 15:06:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPOEMHGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPOEMHGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <96337835882.20020815160519@interlog.com>

Thursday, August 15, 2002, 2:07:31 PM, you wrote:
> j i find the fact that it inserts an html horizontal rule
> between my j signature and the body of the message
> disturbing. i dislike the fact that j it says i'm creating
> a message in plaintext, but i'm forced to use a j wysiwyg
> editor of sorts (with all the html stuff turned off).

This is the very reason for which I switched.

> what happens if you move the attachment to another folder?

If you drag it from the editing window, Eudora updates the
internal link, otherwise, it breaks.


--
Frank Marion,
framar at interlog.com





From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 15 15:08:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Aug 15 15:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Functions and correctly returning values
Message-ID: <20020815200738.94154.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey all,

I'm just full of stuff today.. I read somewhere that you should
*always* return a value from a function, even if its return false or
null. So question 1 is, is that truly the case? I believe the author
was speaking of "good programming habits" and the like.

Secondly, note the following function:

function Collection() {
  this.length = 0;
  this.add = add;
  return this;
}

This is a constructor function. I've never seen "return this" at the
end of a constructor. It's certainly not required, but does this go
along with my first question? I'm assuming that saying return this
will in fact return the value of all the objects properties.

Of course, the function would have done this anyway. Is using return
adding any speed or effectiveness to the function, or is it just a
"best practice"?

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 15 15:10:00 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Aug 15 15:10:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] DOM methods (was js change div)
In-Reply-To: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BAA3@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <20020815200928.40560.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Saila, Craig" <Craig.Saila at bgminteractive.com> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tom Dell'Aringa [mailto:pixelmech at yahoo.com]
> > documentation on the DOM seems scant, as far as a programmers
> > resource.
>
> Scott Andrew LePera has some excellent articles/tutorials available
> at
> his site, I highly recommend it as a first stop:
> <http://www.scottandrew.com/>
> (look down the left nav for the links)

Ah! Exactly what I want - thanks C!

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From framar at interlog.com  Thu Aug 15 15:11:00 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Thu Aug 15 15:11:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPGEMOGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPGEMOGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <173338147400.20020815161030@interlog.com>

Thursday, August 15, 2002, 3:08:15 PM, you wrote:

j> eudora may not have a programmed upper limit, but it certainly can't
j> handle files as large as outlook, at least not to successfully import them
j> anyway.  i tried countless times to import my outlook pst file into eudora
j> in the hopes of having all my mail in one place.  i was never successful.
j> eudora always crapped out.

It might be useful to point out the difference between what
Eudora can 'handle' and how well it imports. It handles lots
of mail, quite easily, it imports very poorly.

--
Frank Marion,
framar at interlog.com





From nansmith at heritageconcord.org  Thu Aug 15 15:28:00 2002
From: nansmith at heritageconcord.org (Nan Smith)
Date: Thu Aug 15 15:28:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS White-space
In-Reply-To: <20020815174028.VBYX9549.out019.verizon.net@out019>
Message-ID: <BDEGINKLKKDNIMKNAMKNAEJGCAAA.nansmith@heritageconcord.org>

I had a situation like this, it was on a school district website. The
minutes to the school board meetings were going to become available on
the website, and instead of dealing with the issues you are talking
about, we converted the text to Adobe Acrobat documents. It saved a ton
of headaches.
Not sure this would work in your case, but I thought I would throw that
out. You could put the link to the pdf file in the database.
Nan

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of William Hutton
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 1:40 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] CSS White-space


I have a very large text string, varchar(4000), in a SQL database that
I'd like to display.  Here's the problem;

If I place it inside a <p> tag, I lose the text formatting in the string;
spaces, carriage returns, line-feeds, etc.

If I place it inside a <pre> tag, I get the test formatting, but I lose
the word-wrap.  :(

After doing some research, as best as I can tell, an in-line style sheet
for the <p> tag would fix my problem, but I can't seem to get it to work.
Here's the page I found;

   http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/css/properties/text/whitespace.htm

And it seems that the following should accomplish what I need;

<p STYLE="white-space: -pre-wrap">foo</p>

However, even this simple test doesn't seem to work;

<p style="white-space: pre">
This should be preformatted text;

   But is it?
   Is it?!
</p>

If I change the <p> tags to <pre>, the text displays with the propper
formatting.  I wanted to see if ANY of the white-space style sheet
attributes worked.  I think these are supposed to be supported in HTML
4.0, and IE5.5+.  I'm using IE6.

Anyone have a suggestion?  Either to get this to work, or some other way
to accomplish my goal?

Thanks,
Will

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From richardgray at onetel.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 15:29:01 2002
From: richardgray at onetel.co.uk (Rich Gray)
Date: Thu Aug 15 15:29:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database LINK
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEOFDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <EDEGIPFFGBJHCIJCMPKOOECHCGAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>

As promised here is a site I found invaluable when I was doing my PayPal
related development - dedicated to PayPal related issues... discussion
forums, useful links etc...

http://www.paypalipn.com/

HTH
Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Maynes
Sent: 15 August 2002 11:32
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database LINK


came across this link
http://www.perl-studio.com/php/paypal/paypal_test.php
 and
http://www.paypal.ukshoppers.com/paypal_code_and_ipn.html

there's quite a lot there...

Andrew
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From Gary at star-chaser.com  Thu Aug 15 15:35:01 2002
From: Gary at star-chaser.com (Gary Bland)
Date: Thu Aug 15 15:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS S/W, Which Do you Like?
References: <20020815195839.18859.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3D5C1032.2030708@star-chaser.com>

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
> --- "Brian W. Reaves" <brian at brianreaves.com> wrote:
>
>>Any input on http://westciv.com/ &
>>http://www.bradsoft.com/topstyle/index.asp? I have used TopStyles
>>but not
>>Westciv.
>>
>>TIA,
>>Brian
>
>
> A further question I have on this is why use a CSS sw? Coding
> everything by hand, why would I want to use an editor? I've heard
> something about warning you if something may not work?? Just curious.
>
> Tom

When you are working for yourself it saves time. Since I do not get a
paycheck every week, time is money. TopStyle 3.0  has a nice html editor
built in, no changing programs to perform a different task. References
are just a click away. One click and the CSS is run through the w3's
validator and if I make a typo it is highlighted in red. It has a style
checker that will tell you what part of your code may break in various
browser. So when you put this all together it saves time.

Gary

--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today



From K_HEYTINK at winebow.com  Thu Aug 15 15:39:01 2002
From: K_HEYTINK at winebow.com (Kathleen Heytink)
Date: Thu Aug 15 15:39:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
Message-ID: <06154D6549B7D5119FC100508BB02DED27AC9D@nj10-exchange.winebow.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: .jeff [mailto:jeff at members.evolt.org]
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 2:08 PM

Regarding sig files ....
>
> how is that any different from outlook?

IMO, it was harder to find where to set up the sig files in Outlook.  I
always have to check the Help file to locate the set up when I want to make
a new one or change it.

> i find the fact that it inserts an html horizontal rule
> between my signature and the body of the message disturbing.
> i dislike the fact that it says i'm creating a message in
> plaintext, but i'm forced to use a wysiwyg editor of sorts
> (with all the html stuff turned off).

The old version I'm using doesn't do that.  It doesn't do HTML at all - a
definite + in my book.


> what happens if you move the attachment to another folder?

If I want them to stay attached to the message, I leave them in the
attachments folder (which can be anywhere on your hard drive.)

If I don't need it with the message, I move it to where I want it.  If I
want it with the message and in another folder, I copy it.

-- Kath Heytink
Web Designer
Winebow, Inc
www.winebow.com --



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 15 15:48:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Aug 15 15:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <173338147400.20020815161030@interlog.com>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPAENGGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

frank,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Frank
>
> It might be useful to point out the difference between
> what Eudora can 'handle' and how well it imports. It
> handles lots of mail, quite easily, it imports very
> poorly.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

which was a major factor in the failure of my switch to eudora.  i have lots and lots of mail i want to keep and be accessible at any time.  if i can't import it into my client of choice then that client is useless to me.

fwiw, this same issue is what has kept me from trying out the bat!  i've tried on various occassions to get it to work, but it just can't do the import.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From margomat at comcast.net  Thu Aug 15 15:49:01 2002
From: margomat at comcast.net (Margo Matthew)
Date: Thu Aug 15 15:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check please	http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k
In-Reply-To: <MBBBKCIHDGAIONCKNKJJCEDJCDAA.amy@rocky-hills.com>
Message-ID: <B9817FA7.42AA%margomat@comcast.net>

Yep, it's a mess on IE5 Mac, OS 9.2. I'm assuming everything is supposed to
be centered.
--The navbar at top is aligned right at about 700 pixels.
--The navbar text overlaps the coin images by half a character.
--The navbar images wrap when the browser window is resized smaller; move to
the right when window is widened.
--The center area is aligned left.
--The text link at bottom is centered. (That works! :-)
--On the inside pages the center text starts too high; the horse logo
obscures it.
--On the Gallery page, the first two rows of items overlap horizontally.

Hopefully others on this list can give you some suggestions, but I'd need to
see the CSS.

Margo

--------------

> Hi all.  I've got a problem!  I need to have this website done tomorrow
> (Friday) and I have just heard that it's a mess on Macintosh
> IE5.I guess I need to know which platforms have
> a problem.
>
> http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k
>
> Thanks.
> Yikes.
>
> Amy



From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 15 16:08:00 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Aug 15 16:08:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <06154D6549B7D5119FC100508BB02DED27AC9D@nj10-exchange.winebow.com>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPCENHGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

kath,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Kathleen Heytink
>
> Regarding sig files ....
>
> > how is that any different from outlook?
>
> IMO, it was harder to find where to set up the sig
> files in Outlook.  I always have to check the Help
> file to locate the set up when I want to make a new
> one or change it.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

i don't know how much easier it could be to find.

tools > options > "mail format" tab > "signature picker" button.  you can add/edit/delete signatures to your heart's content.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > i find the fact that it inserts an html horizontal
> > rule between my signature and the body of the message
> > disturbing.  i dislike the fact that it says i'm
> > creating a message in plaintext, but i'm forced to
> > use a wysiwyg editor of sorts (with all the html stuff
> > turned off).
>
> The old version I'm using doesn't do that.  It doesn't
> do HTML at all - a definite + in my book.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

i remember v3.  there are lots of other little things that are highly annoying about it though.  like search, v3 was incredibly slow when doing a search across folders.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > what happens if you move the attachment to another
> > folder?
>
> If I want them to stay attached to the message, I leave
> them in the attachments folder (which can be anywhere
> on your hard drive.)
>
> If I don't need it with the message, I move it to where
> I want it.  If I want it with the message and in
> another folder, I copy it.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

my problem is that i usually don't find out that i need to keep the attachment with the message until it's too late.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From lalo at teligens.com  Thu Aug 15 16:25:01 2002
From: lalo at teligens.com (Eduardo Dominguez)
Date: Thu Aug 15 16:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
References: <20020815195128.38782.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3D5C2D79.6070104@teligens.com>

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:

> 2. valid XHTML is valid XML. Ok, great - sounds good - but WHY is
> this good for my BOSS? What are some reasons I can give the business
> guy to move them in that direction? You can parse XHTML with an xml
> parser right? So what? What does that get him? That's what we will be
> asked. In effect, what is the ROI for XHTML? (eek, acronym pain)

For what I have read, WML (and other such similar standards for small
devices) will soon "disappear" in favor of XHTML basic. So, a good
thought website could be displayed fine in one of this devices without
any changes (at least in design). Take a look at the Web Standards
Project page in...

http://www.dashes.com/anil/stuff/wasp_ppc.png (pocketpc)
http://www.zeldman.com/daily/pilot.html (palm)
http://www.splorp.com/junk/wasp020625.gif (newton)


--
edmz
http//pisotrece.com




From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 16:39:01 2002
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Thu Aug 15 16:39:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS S/W, Which Do you Like?
In-Reply-To: <20020815195839.18859.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAMELFJKAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>

> A further question I have on this is why use a CSS sw? Coding
> everything by hand, why would I want to use an editor? I've heard
> something about warning you if something may not work?? Just curious.
>
> Tom

How about having all your options appear when you start a style
declaration?  Or running a style sweeper that reorders your messy code
to a neat and tidy version?  Or a style checker that will check your
style sheet for compatibility with browser support on the fly? or maybe
a constant preview of what your style sheet is doing with that last
change?

All these and much much more come with Topstyle 3.0, which is why I now
use it for coding xhtml as well.

gets a big vote from me for most useful tool since.....

more here:

http://www.boldfish.co.uk/item19.htm

thanks

tony




From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Thu Aug 15 16:46:01 2002
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Thu Aug 15 16:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Magenta new web authoring package
References: <KGEGLFFLEFELJCGMFNGGIELPCBAA.bwijers@bdisfunctional.net> <0bae01c24430$344c4d90$c703c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj> <3D5BD626.7050405@macrovista.net>
Message-ID: <0d5d01c244a4$e53e8400$c703c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

<----- Original Message -----
<From: "Steve Lewis" <slewis at macrovista.net>
<> It uses Python as a scripting language.
<What do you have against Python!?

Nothing - but having to learn a non-mainstream language in order to use a
graphic applications tool is a drawback.
For those who know and like Python, it would be an advantage.

Richard.



From john at evolt.org.uk  Thu Aug 15 16:47:01 2002
From: john at evolt.org.uk (John Handelaar)
Date: Thu Aug 15 16:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPAENGGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <BEEMIMHGMNIOGNMGICNAAEOOCDAA.john@evolt.org.uk>

% -----Original Message-----
% From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
% [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of .jeff
% Sent: 15 August 2002 21:49
% To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
% Subject: RE: Re[2]: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
%
% ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
% > From: Frank
% >
% > It might be useful to point out the difference between
% > what Eudora can 'handle' and how well it imports. It
% > handles lots of mail, quite easily, it imports very
% > poorly.
% ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
%
% which was a major factor in the failure of my switch to eudora.
% i have lots and lots of mail i want to keep and be accessible at
% any time.  if i can't import it into my client of choice then
% that client is useless to me.

Perhaps then this tip from when I migrated from Outlook
to Evolution on Linux would be useful:

Mozilla mail can import from Outlook, and saves its own
folders in mbox format - which as an intermediate stage
is good for pretty much any other mailer on Win or *nix.

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 8933 1494       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------


From wes at pmason.karoo.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 16:48:01 2002
From: wes at pmason.karoo.co.uk (**1st Vamp**)
Date: Thu Aug 15 16:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check please http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k
In-Reply-To: <MBBBKCIHDGAIONCKNKJJCEDJCDAA.amy@rocky-hills.com>
References: <MBBBKCIHDGAIONCKNKJJCEDJCDAA.amy@rocky-hills.com>
Message-ID: <3322681283.20020815224725@pmason.karoo.co.uk>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: MD5

It's also a mess on Opera 6.03/WinXP. The position for each textual link element is overlapping, with each other and
the large image. Also the "Links" button onmouseover seems to be loading the second link image behind and to
the bottom centre of the large image under the textual links.

- - Vamp

Thursday, August 15, 2002, 8:12:43 PM, Amy Johnson wrote:

> Hi all.  I've got a problem!  I need to have this website done tomorrow (Friday) and I have just heard that it's a mess on Macintosh
> IE5.  I do not have IE5 (cannot install it now that I have IE6) and I do not have a Macintosh.  This is my first CSS tableless
> website and boy am I in trouble!  I guess I need to know which platforms have a problem.

> http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k

> Thanks.
> Yikes.

> Amy

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From kstevens89 at comcast.net  Thu Aug 15 16:51:01 2002
From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens)
Date: Thu Aug 15 16:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check please http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k
In-Reply-To: <MBBBKCIHDGAIONCKNKJJCEDJCDAA.amy@rocky-hills.com>
References: <MBBBKCIHDGAIONCKNKJJCEDJCDAA.amy@rocky-hills.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b01b981d1bac668@[68.35.112.212]>

Try this.

It fails 4 out of eleven Mac Browsers I have installed.  Enclose all
the class names and in fact all the attributes with quotes.  Set all
measurements to one set unit, like px or pt.  If everyone is marked
the same the browser will not try and decide what to use.

I will not be able to look again until after 10:30PM MST.  Algebra209 tonight.

At 1:12 PM -0600 8/15/02, Amy Johnson wrote:
>Hi all.  I've got a problem!  I need to have this website done
>tomorrow (Friday) and I have just heard that it's a mess on Macintosh
>IE5.  I do not have IE5 (cannot install it now that I have IE6) and
>I do not have a Macintosh.  This is my first CSS tableless
>website and boy am I in trouble!  I guess I need to know which
>platforms have a problem.
>
>http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k
>


--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens

"Warning,
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons.
They will make you crunchy and eat you with ketchup."
-Unknown Author


From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Thu Aug 15 16:55:01 2002
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Thu Aug 15 16:55:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check please http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k
References: <MBBBKCIHDGAIONCKNKJJCEDJCDAA.amy@rocky-hills.com>
Message-ID: <0d6301c244a6$198a2920$c703c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Amy Johnson" <amy at rocky-hills.com>
http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k

Sorry, I don't have a Mac, but it looks fine on win/IE5.5 here.
The only problem is that I can't read the text.
If I select the text it is readable, but the orange on black is not very
visible on my monitor.

Richard.



From john at evolt.org.uk  Thu Aug 15 16:56:01 2002
From: john at evolt.org.uk (John Handelaar)
Date: Thu Aug 15 16:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Magenta new web authoring package
In-Reply-To: <0d5d01c244a4$e53e8400$c703c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj>
Message-ID: <BEEMIMHGMNIOGNMGICNAAEOPCDAA.john@evolt.org.uk>

% -----Original Message-----
% From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
% [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Richard Bennett
% Sent: 15 August 2002 22:44
% To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
% Subject: Re: [thelist] [OT] Magenta new web authoring package
%
% <----- Original Message -----
% <From: "Steve Lewis" <slewis at macrovista.net>
% <> It uses Python as a scripting language.
% <What do you have against Python!?
%
% Nothing - but having to learn a non-mainstream language in order to use a
% graphic applications tool is a drawback.
% For those who know and like Python, it would be an advantage.

Of course, learning Python also allows you to
program new Zope products and write cross-platform
applications (including GUI-based ones) which'll
work on pretty much any computer currently in use
anywhere...

...so it gets my vote over and above (say) VBA, which
doesn't let you do anything which Python can't also
do with Office apps.  But that's just my opinion :-)

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 8933 1494       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 870 169 7657   E john at userfrenzy.com
------------------------------------------


From jeff at members.evolt.org  Thu Aug 15 16:58:00 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Thu Aug 15 16:58:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <BEEMIMHGMNIOGNMGICNAAEOOCDAA.john@evolt.org.uk>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPAENLGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

john,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: John Handelaar
>
> Mozilla mail can import from Outlook, and saves its own
> folders in mbox format - which as an intermediate stage
> is good for pretty much any other mailer on Win or *nix.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

it'd be helpful except that even mozilla couldn't import all my outlook mail either.  i think the only option i have is to export chunks of my pst file into separate ost files and then import those separately...if i ever decide to use something other than outlook that is.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 15 17:14:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Aug 15 17:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS S/W, Which Do you Like?
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAMELFJKAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20020815221329.50838.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Tony Crockford <tonyc at boldfish.co.uk> wrote:
> > A further question I have on this is why use a CSS sw? Coding
> > everything by hand, why would I want to use an editor? I've heard
> > something about warning you if something may not work?? Just
> curious.
> >
> > Tom
>
> How about having all your options appear when you start a style
> declaration?  Or running a style sweeper that reorders your messy
> code
> to a neat and tidy version?  Or a style checker that will check
> your
> style sheet for compatibility with browser support on the fly? or
> maybe
> a constant preview of what your style sheet is doing with that last
> change?
>
> All these and much much more come with Topstyle 3.0, which is why I
> now
> use it for coding xhtml as well.
>
> gets a big vote from me for most useful tool since.....
>
> more here:
>
> http://www.boldfish.co.uk/item19.htm
>
> thanks
>
> tony

Yep, that all makes sense. Now, I already use HomeSite to code
with..and am very attached to it. I use HS4.5 at work and 5.0 at
home. I know I have the "lite" version of TopStyle, but I never
really played with it.

How integrated is it with HomeSite? I really don't want to move to a
new HTML editor, even if it does have the CSS editor in it. Can I
just verify my CSS with the tool if I get the full version?

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From jyee at vt.edu  Thu Aug 15 17:16:01 2002
From: jyee at vt.edu (Jackson Yee)
Date: Thu Aug 15 17:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache 403 Forbidden error on index.cgi
Message-ID: <3D66513F@zathras>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Ditty" <CDitty at email.usps.gov>
To: "thelist" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 11:41
Subject: [thelist] Apache 403 Forbidden error on index.cgi


> I am having a problem getting a cgi script to execute in Apache 1.3.22.  I
have
> given all the proper permissions and I cannot get it to work.

[snipped httpd.conf]

> I also have the DirectoryIndex set to accept index.cgi.

Everything looks alright to me from what you've given as well, Chris.  Without
being able to look at your full httpd.conf though, I'd check the following
things:

Make sure that the directory configuration commands which you've given are in
the directory which the index.cgi file is in.  It sounds simple enough, but if
you happened to place "Options ExecCGI Includes" in a different directory, the
cgi script may not execute.

Does the script work if you explicit call it as
http://server/directory/index.cgi?  If not, then you might need to check your
AddHandler and ScriptAlias directives to make sure that they're correct.

Is the script marked as readable executable by the Apache user?

Regards,
Jackson Yee
jyee at vt.edu
http://www.jacksonyee.com/



From jyee at vt.edu  Thu Aug 15 17:17:03 2002
From: jyee at vt.edu (Jackson Yee)
Date: Thu Aug 15 17:17:03 2002
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Functions and correctly returning values
Message-ID: <3D665431@zathras>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Dell'Aringa" <pixelmech at yahoo.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 16:07
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Functions and correctly returning values

> I'm just full of stuff today.. I read somewhere that you should
> *always* return a value from a function, even if its return false or
> null. So question 1 is, is that truly the case? I believe the author
> was speaking of "good programming habits" and the like.

In other programming languages such as C++ or Java, you would declare the
function void to save some extra processing done by having to return a value
(one extra MOV instruction for any old assembly programmers out there).  I'm
not sure about the efficiency of doing this in JavaScript though, as
JavaScript uses the keyword void as an valueless operator rather than as a
simple function return specification.

Personally, I don't really see any use for it, as I follow the philosophy that
if someone's stupid enough to say

var Foo = bar();

when bar() has been clearly documented as having no useful return value, then
that programmer deserves whatever comes to him or her.  It just takes up extra
room in your code and confuses people as to why the "return false" statement
is there in the first place.

Then again, I'm sure that the author had his own valid reasons for suggesting
the return value.

> Secondly, note the following function:
>
> function Collection() {
>   this.length = 0;
>   this.add = add;
>   return this;
> }
>
> This is a constructor function. I've never seen "return this" at the
> end of a constructor. It's certainly not required, but does this go
> along with my first question? I'm assuming that saying return this
> will in fact return the value of all the objects properties.
>
> Of course, the function would have done this anyway. Is using return
> adding any speed or effectiveness to the function, or is it just a
> "best practice"?

In JavaScript < 2.0, using "return this;" was recommended if you had added
anything onto the object according to

http://wsabstract.com/javatutors/serror2.shtml

However, in JavaScript 2.0, it is stated that

"A constructor should not return a value with a return statement; the newly
created object is returned automatically. A constructor?s return type must be
omitted."

according to

http://www.mozilla.org/js/language/js20/core/classes.html

"Best practices" are almost always a matter of opinion, so choose what works
best for you, and go with it.  I'm personally a very lazy coder, so if there's
something that I don't need to add, then I usually don't do it.  ;-)

Regards,
Jackson Yee
jyee at vt.edu
http://www.jacksonyee.com/



From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 15 17:18:01 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Aug 15 17:18:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPAENGGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <173338147400.20020815161030@interlog.com>
Message-ID: <200208152217.g7FMH0B4023131@leo.evolt.org>

> From: ".jeff" <jeff at members.evolt.org>
>
> which was a major factor in the failure of my switch to eudora.  i
> have lots and lots of mail i want to keep and be accessible at any
> time.  if i can't import it into my client of choice then that client
> is useless to me.
[...]

yeah, after a few years and a few email clients, i gave up on that...
too often messages got munged...

now i export to plain text archives, and i can search those
whenever i want, or archive 'em, and not worry about platform or
mail client at all...


--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035


From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 15 17:18:23 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Aug 15 17:18:23 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPCENHGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <06154D6549B7D5119FC100508BB02DED27AC9D@nj10-exchange.winebow.com>
Message-ID: <200208152217.g7FMH8B4023135@leo.evolt.org>

> From: ".jeff" <jeff at members.evolt.org>
[...]
> i don't know how much easier it could be to find.
>
> tools > options > "mail format" tab > "signature picker" button.  you
> can add/edit/delete signatures to your heart's content.
[...]

except a .sig isn't part of mail formatting... text or HTML is, but not
a .sig... that should be elsewhere... i always hated the tabs and
buttons and use of non-standard language, too... granted, i'd prefer
to see a tab called ".sig", but i'm not an office user or part of their
core market...


--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035


From framar at interlog.com  Thu Aug 15 17:21:00 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Thu Aug 15 17:21:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
In-Reply-To: <20020815195128.38782.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020815195128.38782.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <53345916381.20020815181945@interlog.com>

Thursday, August 15, 2002, 3:51:28 PM, you wrote:

T> One thing we are going to have to tackle is telling our "bosses" why
T> XHTML is a Good Thing(TM).

If you need to have these conversations with them, you
probably shouldn't. If your boss is tech-savvy, she'll have
a good ideas as to why.

Explaining web development to a non-tech is like teaching a
cat to sing. It only wastes your time and annoys the cat.

"Why did you choose XHTML?"

"I'm thinking ahead. This will save you hours of time and
money in the long run. Plus, it will make our product
better, with relatively little work involved. Think of it as
buying a bond. It's quiet, cheap and easy. In the long run
you'll profit from it."



--
Frank Marion,
framar at interlog.com





From kalos at carolina.rr.com  Thu Aug 15 17:24:01 2002
From: kalos at carolina.rr.com (Benjamin)
Date: Thu Aug 15 17:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <20020815212734.785DDC05A@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020815182109.00ab6e78@pop-server.carolina.rr.com>

At 04:27 PM 8/15/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>just my 2?,
>
>.jeff


Probably valid points but when it takes up roughly 3 pages of text (granted
that's including reference material) shouldn't that be your 48~64? worth? =)



From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 17:26:00 2002
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Thu Aug 15 17:26:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS S/W, Which Do you Like?
In-Reply-To: <20020815221329.50838.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAGELJJKAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>

> How integrated is it with HomeSite? I really don't want to move to a
> new HTML editor, even if it does have the CSS editor in it. Can I
> just verify my CSS with the tool if I get the full version?

You should probably read this:

http://www.bradsoft.com/topstyle/support/hsfaq.asp

I was using homesite, but since Topstyle 3.0 is now a fully fledged
xhtml editor, which shows me all the attributes for each tag as I type
it, integrates with HTML tidy to give me a convert to xhtml and links to
my stylesheets, I think the switch was worth it.

I'm barely scratching the surface of the tool's possibilities but I'm
totally smitten (can you tell?) <VBG>

Tony



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 15 17:33:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Aug 15 17:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
In-Reply-To: <53345916381.20020815181945@interlog.com>
Message-ID: <20020815223227.39050.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Frank <framar at interlog.com> wrote:
Tom asked
> T> One thing we are going to have to tackle is telling our "bosses"
> why
> T> XHTML is a Good Thing(TM).
>
> If you need to have these conversations with them, you
> probably shouldn't. If your boss is tech-savvy, she'll have
> a good ideas as to why.

If you think that every "tech-savvy" boss knows why XHTML is better
than hacked HTML, you live in a very small world. In actual fact, its
these very "tech-savvy" folks with their preconcieved predjudices and
beliefs that you will probably find yourself in front of - not the
CEO or the CFO.

These people need real reasons to swing to your side of view. They
sure aren't going to say, "sure Tom, you're a neat fellow! Switch
everything to XHTML today!" No, they are going to say, give me
hardcore, real reasons and tell me how it affects our bottom line.

I will have to stand before a VP here, who has 15 years as a
"tech-savvy" individual. He is the *Chief Architect* of the company.
And if the Chief Architect doesn't want to use XHTML, guess what..we
won't.

But if I give him a good enough case for it - we will. He's not an
egomaniac, but he has to account for why we do everything.

> Explaining web development to a non-tech is like teaching a
> cat to sing. It only wastes your time and annoys the cat.

I only wish it was a non-techie..it'd be easier.

> "Why did you choose XHTML?"
>
> "I'm thinking ahead. This will save you hours of time and
> money in the long run. Plus, it will make our product
> better, with relatively little work involved. Think of it as
> buying a bond. It's quiet, cheap and easy. In the long run
> you'll profit from it."

The answer to the above will be:

HOW will it save you hours of work?
HOW will I save money?
HOW MUCH money will I save? EXPLAIN to me how the money is saved, and
at what point in the process we will begin to see ROI from this
switch.
HOW MUCH work is involved in the switch. EXPLAIN what needs to be
done, who needs to be trained in what, etc.
In the long run? HOW Long, how much, we want it faster than in the
long run.

Now, what was your argument?



=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From kalos at carolina.rr.com  Thu Aug 15 17:34:01 2002
From: kalos at carolina.rr.com (Benjamin)
Date: Thu Aug 15 17:34:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] mod_perl / windows / apache 2
In-Reply-To: <20020815212734.785DDC05A@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020815182844.00adf150@pop-server.carolina.rr.com>

Has anyone been able to get this combo working properly?  I have all of the
files installed but adding the following line (as per the mod_perl install
docs) gives me a typo error.

LoadModule perl_module modules/mod_perl.so

The path to the Perl executable is in my PATH.  I've tried installing other
modules that didn't come with Apache by default and get the same error
(mod_deflate and mod_gzip).

Thanks,
-ben

By the way, the previous message was to be read with the voice of Foghorn
Leghorn as the narrator. =)



From Gary at star-chaser.com  Thu Aug 15 17:41:01 2002
From: Gary at star-chaser.com (Gary Bland)
Date: Thu Aug 15 17:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS S/W, Which Do you Like?
References: <20020815221329.50838.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3D5C2DB1.8090501@star-chaser.com>

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
> --- Tony Crockford <tonyc at boldfish.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>A further question I have on this is why use a CSS sw? Coding
>>>everything by hand, why would I want to use an editor? I've heard
>>>something about warning you if something may not work?? Just
>>
>>curious.
>>
>>>Tom
>>
>>How about having all your options appear when you start a style
>>declaration?  Or running a style sweeper that reorders your messy
>>code
>>to a neat and tidy version?  Or a style checker that will check
>>your
>>style sheet for compatibility with browser support on the fly? or
>>maybe
>>a constant preview of what your style sheet is doing with that last
>>change?
>>
>>All these and much much more come with Topstyle 3.0, which is why I
>>now
>>use it for coding xhtml as well.
>>
>>gets a big vote from me for most useful tool since.....
>>
>>more here:
>>
>>http://www.boldfish.co.uk/item19.htm
>>
>>thanks
>>
>>tony
>
>
> Yep, that all makes sense. Now, I already use HomeSite to code
> with..and am very attached to it. I use HS4.5 at work and 5.0 at
> home. I know I have the "lite" version of TopStyle, but I never
> really played with it.
>

Why bother with homesite? Nick Bradbury, the developer of Homesite is
the developer of TopStyle. TopStyle's html editor has many features
including server mapping.

Gary




--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today



From tim at tfountain.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 17:43:01 2002
From: tim at tfountain.co.uk (Tim Fountain)
Date: Thu Aug 15 17:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Strange Mozilla problem with a CSS background image
Message-ID: <27276454610.20020815234219@tfountain.co.uk>

I recently started moving my site at http://www.ukterrorist.com/ over
to XHTML/CSS layout (getting there but still a way to go until it
validates), but I'm having a very strange problem with two particular
background images in Mozilla.

The sidebar header images, (the ones behind the text 'menu', 'user',
'latest headlines etc.), sometimes appear in Mozilla as if they were
greyscale, as shown in this screenshot:
http://tfountain.co.uk/mozillaproblem.jpg. Refreshing the page
sometimes fixes it (sometimes makes it worse), scrolling down and back
up again sometimes changes the images as well. When viewing the images
alone in Mozilla they display fine.  All other browsers that I've
tried display the images correctly.

Originally I thought it could just be a problem with the files, so as
I still have the original .bmps, I resaved them using a different
graphics package, however that didn't help at all.

Here is the relevant part of the stylesheet for the divs:

.lsboxheader {
   background-image: url('/images/lshead.gif');
   background-repeat: no-repeat;
   height: 32px;
   font-size: 9px;
   text-align: center;
   padding-right: 14px;
   padding-top: 19px;
   }

.rsboxheader {
   width: 156px;
   height: 32px;
   background-image: url('/images/rshead.gif');
   background-repeat: no-repeat;
   font-size: 9px;
   padding-top: 19px;
   text-align: center;
   }

I've run out of things to try, so any suggestions would be greatly
appreciated!

--
Tim Fountain (tim at tfountain.co.uk)
http://www.tfountain.co.uk/



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 17:56:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Thu Aug 15 17:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPAENLGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEPIDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

I have just downloaded php and dont seem to have the php4ts.dll file I have
php4ts.lib

are these the same?  surely not??

Andrew
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 8/2/02



From hutton.billy at verizon.net  Thu Aug 15 17:57:01 2002
From: hutton.billy at verizon.net (William Hutton)
Date: Thu Aug 15 17:57:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] RE: CSS White-space
Message-ID: <20020815225639.JZQL1953.out007.verizon.net@out007>

Thanks Jonathan,

Your idea was brilliant.  :)  It was simple, elegant, and I'm jealous that I didn't think of it!

I was able to get it to work with;

     Replace(objRecordset("someColumn"), VBCrLf, "<br /")

At first I put in adovbs.inc, but I couldn't find any mention of a newline defined in it.  So I tried VBCrLf and low and behold, it worked.

Just wanted to post the actual code I used, and to say that adovbs.inc is unneeded.

Thanks so much!
Will



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 17:58:00 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Thu Aug 15 17:58:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php dll file
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEPIDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKEPIDHAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

whoops...
I have just downloaded php and dont seem to have the php4ts.dll file I have
php4ts.lib

are these the same?  surely not??

Andrew

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From dave at state51.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 18:15:00 2002
From: dave at state51.co.uk (david currey)
Date: Thu Aug 15 18:15:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] get height of div with js after changing it?
In-Reply-To: <523ED78FF1F87A44A40907C74F83CBC20333BAA2@mail.bgm.globeinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <3BDB7078-B0A4-11D6-A39B-003065A20D92@state51.co.uk>

On Thursday, August 15, 2002, at 08:44 PM, Saila, Craig wrote:

> That makes sense. I had interpreted David's "change" as being the actual
> height property, not the contents of the DIV. Either way, you're method
> seems a great way of doing what he needs.
>

thanks .jeff and craig for helping me here, but i think i am missing
somthing here.

was you're method the "look into the clientHeight, offsetHeight, and
pixelHeight properties."?

the dom way works a treat (as you'd expect...hooray) so i have the moz
based browser covered but i cant get the ie win   pixelHeight
happening. and i also need to fixit for mac explorer too. any clues?



thanks again for your help and sorry for the time lapse i was deep in
mpg2 and machine was offline.

cheers ,

dave



From framar at interlog.com  Thu Aug 15 18:28:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Thu Aug 15 18:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
In-Reply-To: <20020815223227.39050.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020815223227.39050.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <63349945064.20020815192654@interlog.com>

Thursday, August 15, 2002, 6:32:27 PM, you wrote:
>> If you need to have these conversations with them, you
>> probably shouldn't. If your boss is tech-savvy, she'll
>> have a good ideas as to why.

> In actual fact, its these very "tech-savvy" folks
> with their preconcieved predjudices and beliefs that you
> will probably find yourself in front of - not the CEO or
> the CFO.

> I will have to stand before a VP here, who has 15 years as
> a "tech-savvy" individual. He is the *Chief Architect* of
> the company. And if the Chief Architect doesn't want to
> use XHTML, guess what..we won't.

> Now, what was your argument?

The argument stands quite firmly.

Most "bosses" are big picture people who can't/don't/won't
understand the details. It's not their job, or strength,
that's why they are execs and not coders. One doesn't talk
to big picture people about details, it just doesn't work.

If your boss, of 15 years, Chief Architect doesn't know
about XHTML, it leads me to questions most politely unasked.
What you are telling us, however, is that your superior
isn't a big picture thinker, the approach then will be
different.

http://www.wdvl.com/Authoring/Languages/XML/XHTML/

http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum21/2641.htm

--
Frank Marion,
framar at interlog.com





From evolt.org at lkv.mailshell.com  Thu Aug 15 18:33:00 2002
From: evolt.org at lkv.mailshell.com (evolt.org at lkv.mailshell.com)
Date: Thu Aug 15 18:33:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] One contact/appointment database to many handhelds?
In-Reply-To: <3BDB7078-B0A4-11D6-A39B-003065A20D92@state51.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1029454357.3d5c3a151adc6@www.mailshell.com>

I got my hands on an HP 620LX palmtop computer running Windows CE, and I'd like to start using it for a while to see if I want to use it as my primary handheld device.

It would replace my Handspring Visor Deluxe, which has given me a rash of fatal exceptions needing a hard/system reset.  Ugh, but I would prefer not to make a cold switch from the Visor to the 620LX.

Is there any hard/soft-ware that will enable me to coordinate and sync all the data among the Visor, 620LX, and the desktop (it's Palm Desktop 4.0)?  FWIW, the 620LX connects to a serial port, although I'm mulling over the idea of using a PCMCIA Ethernet card for connectivity.

Any thoughts?



_______________________________________________________
The FREE service that prevents junk email http://www.mailshell.com


From framar at interlog.com  Thu Aug 15 18:40:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Thu Aug 15 18:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Strange Mozilla problem with a CSS background image
In-Reply-To: <27276454610.20020815234219@tfountain.co.uk>
References: <27276454610.20020815234219@tfountain.co.uk>
Message-ID: <72350704987.20020815193934@interlog.com>

Thursday, August 15, 2002, 6:42:19 PM, you wrote:

> but I'm having a very strange problem with two particular
> background images in Mozilla.

My experience is that sometimes Moz/NS6 will mess with your
images. I've often found that clearing the cache, and if
that fails, re-booting it clears everything. I have a
suspicion that it may be a memory related bug (but don't
know for sure). For what it's worth, your layout appeared
perfect on my quick inspection.

--
Frank Marion,
framar at interlog.com





From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 15 18:44:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Aug 15 18:44:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
In-Reply-To: <63349945064.20020815192654@interlog.com>
Message-ID: <20020815234316.10967.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Frank <framar at interlog.com> wrote:
>
> Thursday, August 15, 2002, 6:32:27 PM, you wrote:
> >> If you need to have these conversations with them, you
> >> probably shouldn't. If your boss is tech-savvy, she'll
> >> have a good ideas as to why.
>
> > In actual fact, its these very "tech-savvy" folks
> > with their preconcieved predjudices and beliefs that you
> > will probably find yourself in front of - not the CEO or
> > the CFO.
>
> > I will have to stand before a VP here, who has 15 years as
> > a "tech-savvy" individual. He is the *Chief Architect* of
> > the company. And if the Chief Architect doesn't want to
> > use XHTML, guess what..we won't.
>
> > Now, what was your argument?
>
> The argument stands quite firmly.

You have no argument, you have stated no facts that I can act on.

> Most "bosses" are big picture people who can't/don't/won't
> understand the details. It's not their job, or strength,
> that's why they are execs and not coders. One doesn't talk
> to big picture people about details, it just doesn't work.

Most <insert race> people are <insert stereotype>. Most <insert job
role> don't understand <insert anything>.

Stereotypes don't work in the real world, and certainly not in real
offices where real people in fact DO understand the details, it IS
their job and often IS their strength. The execs at companies *I*
have worked with *ARE* indeed "coders" as you so lightly put it to a
great degree.

When is the last time you walked up to a Senior Architect and accused
him/her of not knowing what XHTML is?

> If your boss, of 15 years, Chief Architect doesn't know
> about XHTML, it leads me to questions most politely unasked.
> What you are telling us, however, is that your superior
> isn't a big picture thinker, the approach then will be
> different.

When did I say he didn't know about it? In fact, just the opposite -
I said he DOES know about it. That doesn't make it a technology he
wants to embrace because he knows about it.

Your questions "politely unasked" are there because you aren't paying
attention. He most assuredly IS a big picture thinker, which is the
*exact* reason why a person in his position needs to know WHY you do
something.

So, far you have offered no "approach" other than general statements.

> http://www.wdvl.com/Authoring/Languages/XML/XHTML/

This is a link to a <rather pathetic> XHTML tutorial with further
links to the W3C et. al. This does me no good, I need business case
arguments, I need to tell him why it benefits his company.

> http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum21/2641.htm

This is a forum where a bunch of developers like us discuss moving
from HTML to XHTML. Again, this has nothing to do with ROI or
business arguments, which was the question.

What I am looking for is insight into how one might make the case for
using XHTML/Standards/CSS instead of the "old ways" of doing things.
If you say you save money, *tell me how*. If you say it saves time,
*explain how*.

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From dave at state51.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 20:16:01 2002
From: dave at state51.co.uk (david currey)
Date: Thu Aug 15 20:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
In-Reply-To: <20020815234316.10967.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2F982EE9-B0B5-11D6-A3F2-003065A20D92@state51.co.uk>

On Friday, August 16, 2002, at 12:43 AM, Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
>
>
> What I am looking for is insight into how one might make the case for
> using XHTML/Standards/CSS instead of the "old ways" of doing things.
> If you say you save money, *tell me how*. If you say it saves time,
> *explain how*.
>
> Tom
>
>

hi,

have you read:

http://youngpup.net/?request=/articles/iconologic-and-standards.xml

it's not exactly what you're looking for but pretty damm close

i think it's very good, i like reading it but fail miserably at
implementing it :(

cheers,

dave



From judah at wiredotter.com  Thu Aug 15 20:33:01 2002
From: judah at wiredotter.com (Judah McAuley)
Date: Thu Aug 15 20:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
References: <20020815234316.10967.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3D5C560E.4060302@wiredotter.com>

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
>>http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum21/2641.htm
>
>
> This is a forum where a bunch of developers like us discuss moving
> from HTML to XHTML. Again, this has nothing to do with ROI or
> business arguments, which was the question.
>
> What I am looking for is insight into how one might make the case for
> using XHTML/Standards/CSS instead of the "old ways" of doing things.
> If you say you save money, *tell me how*. If you say it saves time,
> *explain how*.

I'm sorry, but your post really made you come off sounding like an ass.
  People *were* trying to help you and you blew them off rather nastily.

To quote from that webmasterworld thread, someone quoted a W3C note:

"Modularizing XHTML provides a means for product designers to specify
which elements are supported by a device using standard building blocks
and standard methods for specifying which building blocks are used.
These modules serve as "points of conformance" for the content
community. The content community can now target the installed base that
supports a certain collection of modules, rather than worry about the
installed base that supports this or that permutation of XHTML elements.
The use of standards is critical for modularized XHTML to be successful
on a large scale. It is not economically feasible for content developers
to tailor content to each and every permutation of XHTML elements. By
specifying a standard, either software processes can autonomously tailor
content to a device, or the device can automatically load the software
required to process a module."

That is a business case.  Obviously you didn't read the thread.  To go
even beyond what the W3C mentioned, I'd argue the following:

XHTML is not only a subset of SGML (like HTML), it is a syntactically
valid XML document.  This means that you can do all sorts of things with
is, like use alternate stylesheets and XSLT to transform it to match the
display characteristics of different browsers (read: cell phones, pda's,
search engine spiders).  That seperation of content and display opens up
all sorts of forward-looking display opportunities.  XML-oriented
structures are also more friendly to manipulation by programming
languages with nice, happy RegEx expressions.

Furthermore, use of current W3C standards ensures future compatibility.
  Standardization is becoming more and more common amongst browser
agents.  The best way to future-proof your applications is to code to
established standards.

I'd argue that future-proofed applications, platform independence, and
the ability to multi-purpose content are all solid business cases.  And
all of those sort of arguments were included in links sent to you in
previous threads.

Hopefully this will help you in your current predicament.

And yes, stereotypes often do work in the real world.  People have a
tendency to fall into certain positions because they are that sort of
person.  No, it doesn't always apply and I don't think that most people
will say that people are *always* this way or that.  But structures and
hierarchies have a tendency to reinforce themselves.  So don't jump on
people for projecting a common behavior type into a position that
frequently displays that behavior but doesn't happen to in your position.

Judah





From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 15 21:09:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Aug 15 21:09:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
In-Reply-To: <2F982EE9-B0B5-11D6-A3F2-003065A20D92@state51.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20020816020756.67315.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>

David, that looks like a good resource, I'm going to read all of it
thanks!
--- david currey <dave at state51.co.uk> wrote:

> hi,
>
> have you read:
>
> http://youngpup.net/?request=/articles/iconologic-and-standards.xml
>
> it's not exactly what you're looking for but pretty damm close
>
> i think it's very good, i like reading it but fail miserably at
> implementing it :(
>
> cheers,
>
> dave


=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 15 21:31:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Thu Aug 15 21:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
In-Reply-To: <3D5C560E.4060302@wiredotter.com>
Message-ID: <20020816023003.50752.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Judah McAuley <judah at wiredotter.com> wrote:
>
> I'm sorry, but your post really made you come off sounding like an
> ass.
>   People *were* trying to help you and you blew them off rather
> nastily.

I surely wasn't trying to be nasty, and in fact I was answering what
seemed to be, at least to me, some rather ridiculous statements. I'm
not sure how much help they were really trying to be.

> To quote from that webmasterworld thread, someone quoted a W3C
> note:
>
> "Modularizing XHTML provides a means for product designers to
> specify<snip>
>
> That is a business case.  Obviously you didn't read the thread.

Actually, I did read that. It's somewhat helpful, so I suppose I
stand somewhat corrected as to that link.

> To
> go
> even beyond what the W3C mentioned, I'd argue the following:
>
> XHTML is not only a subset of SGML (like HTML), it is a
> syntactically
> valid XML document.  This means that you can do all sorts of things
> with
> is, like use alternate stylesheets and XSLT to transform it to
> match the
> display characteristics of different browsers (read: cell phones,
> pda's,
> search engine spiders).  That seperation of content and display
> opens up
> all sorts of forward-looking display opportunities.  XML-oriented
> structures are also more friendly to manipulation by programming
> languages with nice, happy RegEx expressions.

Ok, thats great - I know all that (above). But in today's market, and
for many businesses - having their web sites or applications
available on Joe Technoweenies phone/PDA are so FAR down their list
its near invisible.

On the other hand, if you can tell me how I can take that XML and
perform other business processes on it that will enable my business
to do things I can't do now -- not THAT is something. Some of those
things are going to be industry/instance specific, but I bet some
things aren't..  those are the types of things I was hoping to flush
out.

For example: Maybe I can take a personnel page on an intranet and
re-use the content on the public facing site. That might be one
example.


> Furthermore, use of current W3C standards ensures future
> compatibility.

I've read this a million times. Ensures future compatibility WITH
WHAT?

>   Standardization is becoming more and more common amongst browser
> agents.  The best way to future-proof your applications is to code
> to
> established standards.

I'd argue the point. IE is still placing their proprietary code in
thier browser, and they still hold the vast majority of the audience.
Even their implementations of "standards" differ among the most
modern browsers.

And what are "established" standards anyway? Which set are you
referring to? HTML4? XHTML1.0 or 1.1? Which DTD? Using tables or not?

And, its difficult to make the case for "future proofing". Tell me
how my application is going to break in say, 5 years. I don't think
you can.

> I'd argue that future-proofed applications, platform independence,
> and
> the ability to multi-purpose content are all solid business cases.
> And
> all of those sort of arguments were included in links sent to you
> in
> previous threads.

Isn't the WEB itself platform independence? It sure is, thats not an
issue. Do you mean BROWSER independence? My site already works in
modern browsers, (all) using HTML only. Why do I need to change?

Multi purposing content is a good idea, but we already do that
because we pull much of our data from DBs.

The arguments made in those threads are the same general things you
are saying now, but nothing SPECIFIC. No real case data.

> Hopefully this will help you in your current predicament.
>
> And yes, stereotypes often do work in the real world.  People have
> a
> tendency to fall into certain positions because they are that sort
> of
> person.  No, it doesn't always apply and I don't think that most
> people
> will say that people are *always* this way or that.  But structures
> and
> hierarchies have a tendency to reinforce themselves.  So don't jump
> on
> people for projecting a common behavior type into a position that
> frequently displays that behavior but doesn't happen to in your
> position.

I'll respectfully disagree. I try to never treat people based on any
stereotype. I certainly wouldn't want to be treated in such a way. If
you walk into a situation with a preconceived notion, you've put
YOURSELF at a disadvantage right away, when the person prooves you
*wrong.*

I've had numerous "bosses" in the same position for many companies,
and NONE of them were the same.

DON'T Mistake my "negativity" for me being against standards or
XHTML. I am 100% FOR them. That's why I am in the position with
MACCAWS that I am.

But I am challenging folks to come up with good, solid reasons, data,
cases and paths to ROI on why they should be used. We are researching
that now at MACCAWS.

I know there are people on this list who have some of this in their
heads (and some of it has come out). So lets not get all upset
because somebody challenges you to come up with more detail, or
challenges you to really explain and quantify something you believe
in.

I'll give you a real world example: Lycos Europe has taken some of
their work to XHTML/CSS. It doesn't quite validate all the way, but
its great code, and the author has shared with us some valuable real
world data on what it saved them, timewise, what the code did for
them and so on.

That's what I am looking for, that type of information, whether
specific or not.

Tom







=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From brian at brianreaves.com  Thu Aug 15 21:42:01 2002
From: brian at brianreaves.com (Brian W. Reaves)
Date: Thu Aug 15 21:42:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] RE: CSS S/W, Which Do you Like?
In-Reply-To: <FCEEIMDAEEKOMKBEPPILCEHNCPAA.brian@brianreaves.com>
Message-ID: <FCEEIMDAEEKOMKBEPPILCEIHCPAA.brian@brianreaves.com>

I see we branched off on reason for using it. Does anyone have any input on
the other software?


TIA,
Brian


Any input on http://westciv.com/ &
http://www.bradsoft.com/topstyle/index.asp? I have used TopStyles but not
Westciv.

TIA,
Brian




From monty at airtightweb.com  Thu Aug 15 21:56:01 2002
From: monty at airtightweb.com (Chris Montgomery)
Date: Thu Aug 15 21:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPAENGGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
References: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPAENGGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <4632743072.20020815182241@airtightweb.com>

Howdy .jeff,

Thursday, August 15, 2002, 3:48:55 PM, .jeff wrote:

j> fwiw, this same issue is what has kept me from trying out the bat!
j> i've tried on various occassions to get it to work, but it just
j> can't do the import.

Outlook --> Outlook Express --> The Bat

or

Outlook/Outlook Express --> Netscape/Mozilla -- The Bat

worked quite well for me.

--
Chris Montgomery        monty at airtightweb.com

Airtight Web Services   http://www.airtightweb.com
Web Development, Web Project Management, Software Sales
210-490-3249/888-745-7603



From framar at interlog.com  Thu Aug 15 23:09:01 2002
From: framar at interlog.com (Frank)
Date: Thu Aug 15 23:09:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Tip: IrfanView, very cool image/media utility.
Message-ID: <112366771289.20020816000720@interlog.com>

<tip type="Cool Software" author="Frank Marion">

As web developers, we often have to deal with an unlimited
amount of media, and of various types.

IrfanView is a small, very quick image viewer. Actually, it
will view most forms of images, fonts, movies, etc... It
will even do some light editing, and conversion to a number
of formats that web devs use frequently.

You can browse your drive as thumbnails (Got lots of fonts?
Tones of clip-art? Photoshop files!) It's surprisingly fast,
light and free! Go get it! It'll make you happy!

>From the site:
"IrfanView is a very fast FREEWARE (for non-commercial use)
32-Bit graphic viewer for Windoze 9x/ME, WinNT, Win2000 and
Windows XP"

http://www.irfanview.com/

</tip>

--
Frank Marion,
framar at interlog.com

--
Frank Marion,
framar at interlog.com





From roselli at earthlink.net  Thu Aug 15 23:18:00 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Thu Aug 15 23:18:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] broken page IE6,O6/win2k
Message-ID: <3D5C43DD.9697.CDC135A5@localhost>

here's some irony...
this article:

The Wrong Way to Use CSS in Page Layouts
http://algonquinstudios.com/article_293.html

was reported busted in Opera6 and IE6 on win2k...  i cannot reproduce
the error on 8 different systems (maybe more, waiting for some
replies)... i'm looking to see if anyone with this configuration can
take a look and tell me if it's busted, and if so, if it looks like
the below images:

http://roselli.org/xfer/broken_o6_small.gif
http://roselli.org/xfer/broken_ie6_small.gif

--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035




From kstevens89 at comcast.net  Thu Aug 15 23:26:01 2002
From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens)
Date: Thu Aug 15 23:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS S/W, Which Do you Like?
In-Reply-To: <FCEEIMDAEEKOMKBEPPILCEHNCPAA.brian@brianreaves.com>
References: <FCEEIMDAEEKOMKBEPPILCEHNCPAA.brian@brianreaves.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b01b9822dc068e7@[68.35.112.212]>

I use Style Master from Westciv and can only see a few improvements I
would like.

At 2:51 PM -0500 8/15/02, Brian W. Reaves wrote:
>Any input on http://westciv.com/ &
>http://www.bradsoft.com/topstyle/index.asp? I have used TopStyles but not
>Westciv.
>
>TIA,
>Brian
>
>
>--
>For unsubscribe and other options, including
>the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
>http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens

"Warning,
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons.
They will make you crunchy and eat you with ketchup."
-Unknown Author


From judah at wiredotter.com  Thu Aug 15 23:27:01 2002
From: judah at wiredotter.com (Judah McAuley)
Date: Thu Aug 15 23:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
References: <20020816023003.50752.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3D5C7ED3.90405@wiredotter.com>

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
> Ok, thats great - I know all that (above). But in today's market, and
> for many businesses - having their web sites or applications
> available on Joe Technoweenies phone/PDA are so FAR down their list
> its near invisible.

I would certainly agree with that.  I've never coded a page to
specifically be looked at by a PDA.  Came close to getting a project
once, but the demand isn't there.  In the US at least.  But what if you
are creating a content base of several hundred pages.  And then your
product/service/whatever is picked up in Europe, which is way ahead of
the US in terms of mobile data services?  Sure, at this moment its not
even that important to probably provide the info to them over a PDA, but
it probably will be in the next year to two.  How much time is going to
be spent rewriting the code so that it can be pushed out correctly?  How
much time does it take to write XHTML compliant code right now so you
don't have to worry about it in the future?

> On the other hand, if you can tell me how I can take that XML and
> perform other business processes on it that will enable my business
> to do things I can't do now -- not THAT is something. Some of those
> things are going to be industry/instance specific, but I bet some
> things aren't..  those are the types of things I was hoping to flush
> out.
>
> For example: Maybe I can take a personnel page on an intranet and
> re-use the content on the public facing site. That might be one
> example.

How about this:  Using CSS to deliver differently formatted pages to IE
6 and NS 7?  Let's say your Intranet is standardized on IE 6 and you
want to do some fancy scroll-bar formatting and other snazzy IE-specific
formating.  But you also want to push out some of the data to an
extranet and not have to make it IE-only.  Now this, admittedly, is not
a feature of XHTML.  It's more of a general argument for the seperation
of content and presentation.  However, XSLT will give you even more
control and presentation options than CSS and XSLT needs more
well-formed data to work on.

>>Furthermore, use of current W3C standards ensures future
>>compatibility.
>
>
> I've read this a million times. Ensures future compatibility WITH
> WHAT?

User agents implementing current W3C specs.  I'm sure that most browsers
will always implement their own proprietary extensions.  The urge for
programmers to show off and put in something they (and their company)
think is "great" is too strong.  But every release of every browser I
can think of has one thing in common: stronger adherence to core W3C
standards than the previous version.  Browser extensions come and go
(think <blink>).  W3C recommendations, while not universal, have a
tendency to have a longer shelf-life across multiple browsers.

>>  Standardization is becoming more and more common amongst browser
>>agents.  The best way to future-proof your applications is to code
>>to
>>established standards.
>
>
> I'd argue the point. IE is still placing their proprietary code in
> thier browser, and they still hold the vast majority of the audience.
> Even their implementations of "standards" differ among the most
> modern browsers.
>
> And what are "established" standards anyway? Which set are you
> referring to? HTML4? XHTML1.0 or 1.1? Which DTD? Using tables or not?
>
> And, its difficult to make the case for "future proofing". Tell me
> how my application is going to break in say, 5 years. I don't think
> you can.

According to the lead headline on w3c.org, XHTML 1.0 Second Edition is
now a W3C recommendation.  Now, am I going to suddenly jump to it and
code everything that way?  No.  Its certainly a case-by-case
determination what to use.  But I think that the argument for using
XHTML is pretty strong and is pretty straight forward.

As to examples of how your app will break, say that you use a fixed
background image to provide an underlayed map using the <body> attribute
BGPROPERTIES=FIXED.  It worked in IE once upon a time.  But when that
map starts tiling its going to wreak havoc for your users.  Or lets say
that you use a <font color="White"> tag for warning text on a black
background and then support for the deprecated <font> tag goes away?

I bet that your app will break in the next few years due to using tables
for layout and font tags for presentation.  Those elements will continue
to change unpredicatbly and may go away entirely.  If you are not using
those elements for layout and presentation then you are close enough to
XHTML for this discussion to be moot.

>>I'd argue that future-proofed applications, platform independence,
>>and
>>the ability to multi-purpose content are all solid business cases.
>>And
>>all of those sort of arguments were included in links sent to you
>>in
>>previous threads.
>
>
> Isn't the WEB itself platform independence? It sure is, thats not an
> issue. Do you mean BROWSER independence? My site already works in
> modern browsers, (all) using HTML only. Why do I need to change?

Actually by platform I meant a wider view of user-agent.  IE on Windows
2000, IE on Win CE.  Mozilla on a device running GEOS. A combination of
user agent and computing platform.

And I'm not saying that you do need to change everything you've done.
I'm just saying that moving new development and redevelopment to XHTML
makes sense from a conservative point of view.  Minimal additional work,
maximal flexibility for future utility.

> Multi purposing content is a good idea, but we already do that
> because we pull much of our data from DBs.
>
> The arguments made in those threads are the same general things you
> are saying now, but nothing SPECIFIC. No real case data.

Arguments from logical business standpoints are always the best.  Case
data is specific to the case.  It never directly applies to another
case.  You are always left with extrapolation and induction.  It is best
to start from first principles, see whether the logic is applicable to
your situation, and see whether any outside experiences run counter to
your intuition/deduction.

>
> I'll respectfully disagree. I try to never treat people based on any
> stereotype. I certainly wouldn't want to be treated in such a way. If
> you walk into a situation with a preconceived notion, you've put
> YOURSELF at a disadvantage right away, when the person prooves you
> *wrong.*

I understand this point and it is well taken.  However, I don't believe
that the human mind works that way.  It would take far too long to walk
into every situation without a preconcieved notion and learn everything
you needed to know within the context of that situation.  That is where
past experience comes in.  And then we collectively share past
experience and it gets distilled into stereotypes.  They serve the very
useful purpose of giving us a base understanding to start our
explorations of a situation.  We should not use those stereotypes as an
excuse to not explore a situation, however.  I admit that relying on
stereotypes is a very bad idea, but I do believe that stereotypes are a
collectively distilled set of experiences that form the basis for some
usefull starting points in many situations.

> I've had numerous "bosses" in the same position for many companies,
> and NONE of them were the same.

You've worked for excellent companies then.  Glad to hear it.

> DON'T Mistake my "negativity" for me being against standards or
> XHTML. I am 100% FOR them. That's why I am in the position with
> MACCAWS that I am.

And don't mistake my exhortations in favor of XHTML and standards as an
indictment of those that don't code to standard.  I don't produce valid
XHTML for most of my projects for a variety of reasons.  I work on a
product that has IE-specific features for very good business reasons.  I
don't like it from an intellectual standpoint, but I do what I can to
accomplish a task until I can find a better way to do it.

> But I am challenging folks to come up with good, solid reasons, data,
> cases and paths to ROI on why they should be used. We are researching
> that now at MACCAWS.
>
> I know there are people on this list who have some of this in their
> heads (and some of it has come out). So lets not get all upset
> because somebody challenges you to come up with more detail, or
> challenges you to really explain and quantify something you believe
> in.

I think data is great.  I've got a degree in Math and Quantitative
Ecology.  I love models and statistics and all that.  I really think
that measuring the ROI of standards compliant coding is a great idea
(although a tough experiment to design).  But I don't think that its
necessary in order to say its a good idea.  Business wouldn't get done
if everything required statistically valid ROI models.  Its great when
they do exist but they still are only a guide.  They still won't tell
you if its right for your business.

I think that an explanation for why XHTML was put together in the first
place and why people are moving toward it out to be enough information
to decide if its right for your business.

> I'll give you a real world example: Lycos Europe has taken some of
> their work to XHTML/CSS. It doesn't quite validate all the way, but
> its great code, and the author has shared with us some valuable real
> world data on what it saved them, timewise, what the code did for
> them and so on.
>
> That's what I am looking for, that type of information, whether
> specific or not.

Since I can't give you data from my business (due to the fact we haven't
moved to XHTML yet) I'll pass along interesting results from google
searches:

IT Papers on XML
http://www.itpapers.com/cgi/SubcatIT.pl?scid=201

ROI on Mobile and Wireless Apps (repurposing content for mobile devices)
http://www.networkcomputing.com/1303/1303f13.html

I hope that you can find the ROI analysis that meets your needs.  If you
do, be sure to share it with us as I'm sure it will be appreciated.

Judah




From amy at rocky-hills.com  Fri Aug 16 01:16:01 2002
From: amy at rocky-hills.com (Amy Johnson)
Date: Fri Aug 16 01:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check please http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k
Message-ID: <MBBBKCIHDGAIONCKNKJJAEDNCDAA.amy@rocky-hills.com>

Given my deadline I had to give up on CSS and redo the whole web site in tables.  I do want to eventually roll over to CSS but I now
realize that I MUST have multiple platforms for my development process to be successful.  I am currently looking into buying a used
Mac just for the purpose of testing CSS sites.  I have wasted huge amounts of time on this site and need some sleep.  Good night.

Amy


> Hi all.  I've got a problem!  I need to have this website done tomorrow (Friday) and I have just heard that it's a mess on
Macintosh
> IE5.  I do not have IE5 (cannot install it now that I have IE6) and I do
not have a Macintosh.  This is my first CSS tableless
> website and boy am I in trouble!  I guess I need to know which platforms
have a problem.
>
> http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k
>
> Thanks.
> Yikes.
>
> Amy




From muinar at gmx.net  Fri Aug 16 02:36:01 2002
From: muinar at gmx.net (m u i n a r)
Date: Fri Aug 16 02:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <200208152217.g7FMH0B4023131@leo.evolt.org>
References: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPAENGGKAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>
 <173338147400.20020815161030@interlog.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020816090957.00a8d500@mail.gmx.net>

At 00:17 16.08.02, you wrote:
>yeah, after a few years and a few email clients, i gave up on that...
>too often messages got munged...
>
>now i export to plain text archives, and i can search those
>whenever i want, or archive 'em, and not worry about platform or
>mail client at all...

Aardvark, I agree. That's the only way that seems to work for me,
too.

Eudora stores each mailbox into a plain text file. I can open it
in an advanced text editor and use regexp search functions, I can
parse it and read parts of stuff automatically into a database if I
want to, do statistics, etc.

And in ten years? I don't need proprietary software just to read
my email or to do researches. This alone is a quite scary point in
using Outlook IMHO. (Dunno if I will still use Eudora then -
anyway I don't care. Jeff, I'm not an Eudora addicted like you seem
to be with Outlook, I'm just a user that did the switch after some
considerations two years ago.)

Aardvark, I wonder if you have a special way to archive the messages
that has advantages over the way Eudora stores them? Again, this is
not to fight for Eudora, I'm just interested into ways to approve my
workflow, anytime.

And back to my question from before, can any Bat! user tell me
please whether The Bat! saves messages into plain text files or into
a binary file like Outlook?

Tnx   :)

Mike



From cache at dowebscentral.com  Fri Aug 16 02:47:01 2002
From: cache at dowebscentral.com (Keith)
Date: Fri Aug 16 02:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PayPal with Local Database
In-Reply-To: <000301c2447a$1eba2610$0300a8c0@BS>
References: <KOENJGNHGACBDCEIKHKACELGCKAA.richardgray@onetel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020816013859.01c81c18@www.dowebscentral.com>

At 05:37 PM Thursday 8/15/2002, benji wrote:
>i agree that this is a terrible decision by paypal not to provide
>testing servers. however, i think they may have done it purposely, for
>testing we had to actually make genuine payments. of course, these could
>be refunded, but by then paypal had already creamed off their
>transaction fees.


I trick PayPal out of that money. I always seem to have some balance in my
PayPal account when I need to set up a client and do the testing. I make
sure I do that before the client has verified their account (or create a
new bogus account for the test). If the account has not yet been verified
there's an "accept" or "deny" on the transaction. Just deny it and it goes
back to the sender, no charges either way.



Keith
====================
cache at dowebscentral.com



From magic32 at jps.net  Fri Aug 16 02:59:01 2002
From: magic32 at jps.net (Roger Harness)
Date: Fri Aug 16 02:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php/mysql and form input...sorta
In-Reply-To: <20020816042846.1DF20C037@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCOEEILGAA.magic32@jps.net>

'Volters,

newbie who's trying to follow a book, ("PHP and MySQL Web Development").

I *think* I'm possibly having problems with htmlspecialchars(),
stripslashes(), and addslashes()...or maybe not.

I'm just trying to let the user select a plu number, which will then bring
up a form with that plu's info already filled out in appropriate text boxes,
with each field waiting to be edited if needed. I'm just trying to
semi-reuse my working code for inputting the plu's, and all its
corresponding data fields.

mysql_select_db("roger");
$query = "select * from feeders3 where plu = '$searchterm' order by descr";
$result = mysql_query($query);
$num_results = mysql_num_rows($result);
echo "<p>Number of products found: ".$num_results."</p>\n";
for ($i=0; $i <$num_results; $i++)
{
$row=mysql_fetch_array($result);
echo "<form>\n";
echo "<table>\n";
echo "<tr>\n";
echo "<td>";
echo ($i+1).". Description:</td>\n ";
echo "<td>";
echo htmlspecialchars( stripslashes($row["descr"]));
echo "</td>\n";
echo "</tr>\n";
echo "<tr>\n";
echo "<td>";
echo "Style</td>\n";
echo "<td>";
echo "<input type=text value=".stripslashes($row["style"]).'>';
echo "</td>\n";
echo "</td>\n";

etc etc.

this almost works, except it eats up anything after a space, in any field i
present in an input box.

So my Description (descr) will show fine (e.g. "A-6 Mini Thistle Feeder")
but my Style shows "Mixed" instead of "Mixed Seed"

Does this question make sense? Should I not even be doing it this way?
Again, I'm trying to semi follow the book, and that's probably getting me
into trouble.

as always, tia!

-Roger Harness



From keith.underdown at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Aug 16 03:51:01 2002
From: keith.underdown at blueyonder.co.uk (Keith Underdown)
Date: Fri Aug 16 03:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check please	http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k
In-Reply-To: <20020815212723.9702AC059@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000301c24502$35502090$0100a8c0@underdown1>

It's a mess in Opera on W2000 too.

Keith

KUQ




From muinar at gmx.net  Fri Aug 16 03:59:01 2002
From: muinar at gmx.net (m u i n a r)
Date: Fri Aug 16 03:59:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP file upload: how to make it safe?
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020816104447.00ab3460@mail.msk.ch>

Hi all

How dangerous is a public file upload?

I'm checking for file type, size and image dimensions (see following PHP
code snippet). If it has a width, it should be an image, and image files
can't be self-executing and harm the server - ?

         $imageDim = getimagesize( $img1 );
         $img1Width = $imageDim[ 0 ];
         $img1Height = $imageDim[ 1 ];
         $type1 = $HTTP_POST_FILES['img1']['type'];
         if( substr_count( $type1,"jpeg" ) != 0 and $img1Width *
$img1Height <= 5000 )
                 {
                 $newFile = "cat_" . $id . ".jpg";
                 copy( "$img1", "$dirName/$newFile" );
                 $textJpg = "Image uploaded.";
                 }

Is it still possible to fake all three criteria and upload something
dangerous? Or, generally asked: Is it less secure than a normal website
without file upload?

Most likely the upload part will be after user login *and* probably
after credit card payment.

Thanks for any insights...  :)

Mike



From simon at incutio.com  Fri Aug 16 04:41:01 2002
From: simon at incutio.com (Simon Willison)
Date: Fri Aug 16 04:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php/mysql and form input...sorta
In-Reply-To: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCOEEILGAA.magic32@jps.net>
References: <20020816042846.1DF20C037@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020816093708.01e35050@mail.incutio.com>

At 01:00 16/08/2002 -0700, Roger Harness wrote:
>I *think* I'm possibly having problems with htmlspecialchars(),
>stripslashes(), and addslashes()...or maybe not.
>
>I'm just trying to let the user select a plu number, which will then bring
>up a form with that plu's info already filled out in appropriate text boxes,
>with each field waiting to be edited if needed. I'm just trying to
>semi-reuse my working code for inputting the plu's, and all its
>corresponding data fields.
>
>mysql_select_db("roger");
>$query = "select * from feeders3 where plu = '$searchterm' order by descr";
>$result = mysql_query($query);
>$num_results = mysql_num_rows($result);
>echo "<p>Number of products found: ".$num_results."</p>\n";
>for ($i=0; $i <$num_results; $i++)
>{
>$row=mysql_fetch_array($result);
>echo htmlspecialchars( stripslashes($row["descr"]));
>echo "<input type=text value=".stripslashes($row["style"]).'>';

You shouldn't have to stripslashes() on data that has come out of a
database. Here's why.

The whole point of addslashes/stripslashes is to get quotes in to a
database without breaking things. Consider the following SQL command:

insert into tablename set name = 'Bob', age = 21

Nothing wrong with that. Now consider this statement:

insert into tablename set name = 'Bob's Car', age = 7

This statement will fail - the apostrophe in Bob's Car breaks out of the
string early. The solution is to use addslashes() on the variable
containing "Bob's Car" before the data goes in the database, which will add
a slash in front of the hyphen and escape the data in a way understood by
mySQL / other database engines.

You should never need to run stripslashes() on data that has come out of a
database. The slashes are only there to get the insert / update SQL calls
to work - the data is stored in the database without slashes and will be
returned without slashes as well.

Here's where things get confusing. PHP has a setting called "magic quotes"
which automatically runs the addslashes() function on any data coming in to
the script. This is a two edged sword - it means you don't have to worry
about running addslashes() on your data, but it also means that if you DO
the data will end up "double slashed" (a term I just made up). Double
slashed data will be stored in the database in a way that requires you to
run stripslashes() on the data when it comes back out of the database. The
problem is that while magic quotes defaults to being on it can be turned
off in the php.ini file, and some servers do not have it enabled. As a
result, for rock solid PHP code that wioll work on all servers whether or
not they have magic quotes turned on you need to use this on all data
coming in:

$data = get_magic_quotes_gpc() ? $_REQUEST['data'] :
addslashes($_REQUEST['data']);

The above line will guarantee that the incoming data (in a field from a
form named 'data') has addslashes() applied once to it, whether or not the
server has magic quotes enabled.

Still with me? Good, because there's one more thing to consider. If magic
qutoes is turned on and you want to just display a piece of data straight
to the user you will need to run stripslashes() on it first to get rid of
the slashes. Imagine they've submitted a form with "Bob's Car" as the
setting for the "data" field, and magic quotes is turned on. Using

echo $_REQUEST['data'];

Will output "Bob\'s Car" - PHP has added slashes for you because it thought
you were going to put the data in a database. TO display the variable
without the additional slashes you need:

echo stripslashes($_REQUEST['data']);

Of course, if magic quotes isn't turned on the above could cause problems
(by removing slashes that are meant to be there for example) - so you end
up having to use this to make sure:

echo get_magic_quotes_gpc() ? stripslashes($_REQUEST['data']) :
$_REQUEST['data'];

One last problem: You may think that with magic quotes being such a royal
pain in the butt it makes sense to disable them or enable them specifically
at the start of a script using a call to the set_ini() function. This seems
like a great idea, until you realise that changes to PHP's ini
configuration in this manner are global rather than local to the currently
executing script. In other words, if you change the magic quotes ini
section at the top of your script any other scripts on the same server that
start executing during the execution of your script will be affected. This
can lead to all kinds of bizzare problems with slashes cropping up in weird
places in unrelated scripts. I'm not sure if this is confirmed as a problem
with magic quotes and the set_ini function but I seem to remember reading
about it somewhere and it would explain some strange bugs I have seen on
our company's server.

The best solution is to have a piece of code at the top of your script
which goes through all input and runs addslashes() on it if magic quotes is
turned off (or runs stripslashes if magic qutoes is on and you want it to
be off - it's your call). To complicate things more, this code needs to be
able to handle arrays within your incoming input. I had a look around and
couldn't find any code for doing this that didn't use eval() so I put the
following together:

/* Recursive functions that deal with the array problem */
function addslashes_recursive($value) {
     if (is_array($value)) {
         foreach ($value as $index => $val) {
             $value[$index] = addslashes_recursive($val);
         }
         return $value;
     } else {
         return addslashes($value);
     }
}
function stripslashes_recursive($value) {
     if (is_array($value)) {
         foreach ($value as $index => $val) {
             $value[$index] = stripslashes_recursive($val);
         }
         return $value;
     } else {
         return stripslashes($value);
     }
}

/* Use this if you want addslashes() to be run on all incoming data */
if (!get_magic_quotes_gpc()) {
     // Recursively apply addslashes() to all data
     $_GET = addslashes_recursive($_GET);
     $_POST = addslashes_recursive($_POST);
     $_COOKIE = addslashes_recursive($_COOKIE);
     $_REQUEST = addslashes_recursive($_REQUEST);
}

/* Use this if you do NOT want addslashes() to be run on all incoming data */
if (get_magic_quotes_gpc()) {
     // Recursively apply stripslashes() to all data
     $_GET = stripslashes_recursive($_GET);
     $_POST = stripslashes_recursive($_POST);
     $_COOKIE = stripslashes_recursive($_COOKIE);
     $_REQUEST = stripslashes_recursive($_REQUEST);
}

Hope that helps, and thanks for finally giving me the inspiration to write
a bit of code I've needed for ages :)

Simon Willison
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~cs1spw/blog/



From simon at incutio.com  Fri Aug 16 04:51:00 2002
From: simon at incutio.com (Simon Willison)
Date: Fri Aug 16 04:51:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] php/mysql and form input...sorta
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020816093708.01e35050@mail.incutio.com>
References: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCOEEILGAA.magic32@jps.net>
 <20020816042846.1DF20C037@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20020816104733.00b85558@mail.incutio.com>

At 10:40 16/08/2002 +0100, Simon Willison wrote:
>One last problem: You may think that with magic quotes being such a royal
>pain in the butt it makes sense to disable them or enable them specifically
>at the start of a script using a call to the set_ini() function. This seems
>like a great idea, until you realise that changes to PHP's ini
>configuration in this manner are global rather than local to the currently
>executing script. In other words, if you change the magic quotes ini
>section at the top of your script any other scripts on the same server that
>start executing during the execution of your script will be affected. This
>can lead to all kinds of bizzare problems with slashes cropping up in weird
>places in unrelated scripts. I'm not sure if this is confirmed as a problem
>with magic quotes and the set_ini function but I seem to remember reading
>about it somewhere and it would explain some strange bugs I have seen on
>our company's server.

I just did some checking in the PHP manual. While there was no mention of
the ini_set() function making global changes that affect other scripts
(meaning I could well be wrong on that detail) it turns out that using
ini_set() on the magic quotes function will not have any effect on the
current script any way, as by the time PHP reads that line of your script
it will already have applied the magic quotes setting to incoming data. The
same is true for register_globals as well. See www.php.net/ini_set
(comments section) for more information.

Cheers,

Simon

--
Web Developer, www.incutio.com
Weblog: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~cs1spw/blog/



From mark at cyberfuddle.com  Fri Aug 16 05:47:01 2002
From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher)
Date: Fri Aug 16 05:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
References: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A130@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <3D5CD7FD.1080809@cyberfuddle.com>

David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil wrote:
>>This might be really kewl as a plugin or something that you can turn on or
>>off in your browser and would work for any site. Kinda like the little
>>search frame in IE.
>
>
> I was thinking the same thing. :)
>
> The problem I'd see though, is how do you specify parent/child page
> relationships in HTML? Go from a page deep in Windows to a page deep in
> Office in one click, how does the tree know that the Office page is five
> levels down in the Office section?

<link rel="parent" href="foo.html" type="text/html">
<link rev="child" href="bar.html" type="text/html">

Rinse, repeat :-)


--
Mark Gallagher
Desperately attempting - and failing - to stay on topic since 1999
fuddleriffic - http://cyberfuddle.com/
blog - http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/



From luminosity at members.evolt.org  Fri Aug 16 06:21:01 2002
From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Fri Aug 16 06:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
References: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A130@fsjubj09> <3D5CD7FD.1080809@cyberfuddle.com>
Message-ID: <3D5CDF9F.7060801@members.evolt.org>

Mark Gallagher wrote:
>> I was thinking the same thing. :)
>>
>> The problem I'd see though, is how do you specify parent/child page
>> relationships in HTML? Go from a page deep in Windows to a page deep in
>> Office in one click, how does the tree know that the Office page is five
>> levels down in the Office section?
>
>
> <link rel="parent" href="foo.html" type="text/html">
> <link rev="child" href="bar.html" type="text/html">
>
> Rinse, repeat :-)

Actually, I've always thought rev was kind of useless. Is there
*anything* you can say with rev that can't be said with rel?
--
Lach
__________________________________________
Web: http://illuminosity.net/
E-mail: lach at illuminosity.net
MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
__________________________________________




From webdev at mountain.ch  Fri Aug 16 06:36:01 2002
From: webdev at mountain.ch (Mark Howells)
Date: Fri Aug 16 06:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Looking for info on units of measurement
In-Reply-To: <PBEAKGFHGHNAHBAPLFODKEIHCAAA.ethanol@mathlab.sunysb.edu>
Message-ID: <B982B021.511B%webdev@mountain.ch>

> BTW, on re-reading the originating email, I think the goal might of been a
> site
> with a list of units by country, i.e. USA uses the imperial system, Canada
> uses
> metric, etc., rather than a list of all possible units without any division by
> where they might be used.

Thanks to everyone for the conversion suggestions, but the above is correct.
We have a project here is Switzerland, where the client thinks it's a waste
of time including distance details in miles because "nobody uses miles
anymore". I'm trying to find out how true that is, on an international basis
(primarily for Japan, US, Canada, India, UK and Europe).

Regards
Mark Howells
<http://www.mark.ac/evl/>



From webdev at mountain.ch  Fri Aug 16 06:46:01 2002
From: webdev at mountain.ch (Mark Howells)
Date: Fri Aug 16 06:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] JavaScript Functions and correctly returning values
In-Reply-To: <3D665431@zathras>
Message-ID: <B982B279.511E%webdev@mountain.ch>

>> function Collection() {
>>   this.length = 0;
>>   this.add = add;
>>   return this;
>> }
>>
>> This is a constructor function. I've never seen "return this" at the
>> end of a constructor. It's certainly not required, but does this go
>> along with my first question? I'm assuming that saying return this
>> will in fact return the value of all the objects properties.

I use similar functionality in all of my DHTML projects -- see the example
code at <http://www.mark.ac/help/jsObjects.html>. Using "return this" at the
end if the function simply ensures that the new Javascript object receives
all the properties defined by the function, and it's completist -- I've
tested in current browsers, and the function seems to work with or without
the return.

Regards
Mark Howells
<http://www.mark.ac/evl/>



From luminosity at members.evolt.org  Fri Aug 16 06:47:01 2002
From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Fri Aug 16 06:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Looking for info on units of measurement
References: <B982B021.511B%webdev@mountain.ch>
Message-ID: <3D5CE5CF.7040000@members.evolt.org>

Mark Howells wrote:
> Thanks to everyone for the conversion suggestions, but the above is correct.
> We have a project here is Switzerland, where the client thinks it's a waste
> of time including distance details in miles because "nobody uses miles
> anymore". I'm trying to find out how true that is, on an international basis
> (primarily for Japan, US, Canada, India, UK and Europe).


I'm pretty sure Japan uses Metric. At least all the measurements I've
learnt in Japanese have been metric. I could be wrong though.. it could
be because Aus measures are metric or something.

--
Lach
__________________________________________
Web: http://illuminosity.net/
E-mail: lach at illuminosity.net
MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
__________________________________________




From webdev at mountain.ch  Fri Aug 16 07:00:01 2002
From: webdev at mountain.ch (Mark Howells)
Date: Fri Aug 16 07:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
In-Reply-To: <2F982EE9-B0B5-11D6-A3F2-003065A20D92@state51.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B982B5B6.5123%webdev@mountain.ch>

> http://youngpup.net/?request=/articles/iconologic-and-standards.xml

That's the best article I have ever read, online or offline, about the "real
world" reasons for switching to XHTML and CSS. I 'd recommend that everyone
on thelist print a copy, frame it and hang it on the wall of the web
development office.

Regards
Mark Howells
<http://www.mark.ac/evl/>



From webdev at mountain.ch  Fri Aug 16 07:08:00 2002
From: webdev at mountain.ch (Mark Howells)
Date: Fri Aug 16 07:08:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
In-Reply-To: <3D5C7ED3.90405@wiredotter.com>
Message-ID: <B982B7A4.5126%webdev@mountain.ch>

> I bet that your app will break in the next few years due to using tables
> for layout and font tags for presentation.

A good test for whether your table-based layout "works" or not is to print a
copy of the page directly from the browser. Many -- though by no means all
-- table-based layouts don't print correctly, due to hard-coded pixel-based
dimensions that exceed the standard page width of an A4 printer.

Regards
Mark Howells
<http://www.mark.ac/evl/>



From michael at tapinternet.com  Fri Aug 16 07:21:01 2002
From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael Kimsal)
Date: Fri Aug 16 07:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
References: <20020816023003.50752.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com> <3D5C7ED3.90405@wiredotter.com>
Message-ID: <3D5CEF9B.3000607@tapinternet.com>

>
>
>> For example: Maybe I can take a personnel page on an intranet and
>> re-use the content on the public facing site. That might be one
>> example.
>
>
> How about this:  Using CSS to deliver differently formatted pages to IE
> 6 and NS 7?  Let's say your Intranet is standardized on IE 6 and you
> want to do some fancy scroll-bar formatting and other snazzy IE-specific
> formating.  But you also want to push out some of the data to an
> extranet and not have to make it IE-only.  Now this, admittedly, is not
> a feature of XHTML.  It's more of a general argument for the seperation
> of content and presentation.  However, XSLT will give you even more
> control and presentation options than CSS and XSLT needs more
> well-formed data to work on.


It seems you're saying you make one 'page', then grab that and process
it via
XSLT or reparse it to extract data.  If so, why do that?  If I've two
massively distinct agents to target, I'd just use two separate templates
(with XHTML or whatever in them) for the specific user agents.
Input comes in, gets processed, data for the template is returned
to the processing engine, which then calls the appropriate template(s).
 I don't
need XHTML for that, and it affords the ultimate in flexibility.

If someone else is trying to screen-scrape me, and can't easily parse stuff
because it's not XHTML, tough luck - I don't care if people take the
content,
but I'm not going to make it easy to nab.  If they want to contact me
directly
about a SOAP or XMLRPC interface, that's fine (or I'd put instructions
on how to do it on the site itself).

I don't see this 'retargetting' thing as that valid an argument for XHTML.

Michael Kimsal
http://www.logicreate.com
734-480-9961




From kjs at ratking.co.uk  Fri Aug 16 07:27:00 2002
From: kjs at ratking.co.uk (Kevin Stevens)
Date: Fri Aug 16 07:27:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL problem
Message-ID: <01bc01c2451f$db385500$0100a8c0@k0k8u7>

I want to display the results from a database that picks all the records
that match the primary key in another database and then displays them in
ascending order but I can't work out the right SQL statement. What I want is
something along the lines of...

("select * from FaveList where pkmatch =" &PKey "order by Product_ID asc:")

which doesn't work. How would I do this?

TIA

Kevin Stevens
kjs at ratking.co.uk



From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Fri Aug 16 07:35:00 2002
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Fri Aug 16 07:35:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL problem
In-Reply-To: <01bc01c2451f$db385500$0100a8c0@k0k8u7>
Message-ID: <001701c24521$6d4ebff0$8102a8c0@000347D72515>

[snip]
I want to display the results from a database that picks all the records
that match the primary key in another database and then displays them in
ascending order but I can't work out the right SQL statement. What I want is
something along the lines of...

("select * from FaveList where pkmatch =" &PKey "order by Product_ID asc:")
[/snip]

In another database, or table? I don't think that you have given us enough
info to solve the situation. Are there two tables, two table in two
databases, or something else? Can you describe the tables?

SELECT *
FROM FaveList f, OtherList o
WHERE f.Pkey = o.Pkey
ORDER BY f.Product_ID ASC

Jay

***********************************************************
* Texas PHP Developers Conf  Spring 2003                  *
* T Bar M Resort & Conference Center                      *
* New Braunfels, Texas                                    *
* San Antonio Area PHP Developers Group                   *
* Interested? Contact jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com *
***********************************************************




From steve.cook at evitbe.com  Fri Aug 16 07:36:00 2002
From: steve.cook at evitbe.com (Steve Cook)
Date: Fri Aug 16 07:36:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL problem
Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D523078D4@SBS>

Hi Kev!

Give something like this a try:

"SELECT * FROM table1 JOIN table2 ON table1.primaryKey = table2.primaryKey
WHERE pkmatch =" & PKey & "order by Product_ID asc:"

Here's a page with a little more info on the different types of JOIN that
are available.

Mail me your actual code if you need more pointers.

.steve



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Stevens [mailto:kjs at ratking.co.uk]
> Sent: den 16 augusti 2002 14:24
> To: Evolt
> Subject: [thelist] SQL problem
>
>
> I want to display the results from a database that picks all
> the records
> that match the primary key in another database and then
> displays them in
> ascending order but I can't work out the right SQL statement.
> What I want is
> something along the lines of...
>
> ("select * from FaveList where pkmatch =" &PKey "order by
> Product_ID asc:")
>
> which doesn't work. How would I do this?
>


From webdev at mountain.ch  Fri Aug 16 07:37:00 2002
From: webdev at mountain.ch (Mark Howells)
Date: Fri Aug 16 07:37:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
In-Reply-To: <3D5CEF9B.3000607@tapinternet.com>
Message-ID: <B982BE72.5131%webdev@mountain.ch>

> It seems you're saying you make one 'page', then grab that and process
> it via
> XSLT or reparse it to extract data.

The idea is to contain one page containing your content ("data") and then
control it's screen, print or audible layout with a style sheet, be it CSS
or XSLT.

> If so, why do that?  If I've two
> massively distinct agents to target, I'd just use two separate templates
> (with XHTML or whatever in them) for the specific user agents.
> Input comes in, gets processed, data for the template is returned
> to the processing engine, which then calls the appropriate template(s).
> I don't
> need XHTML for that, and it affords the ultimate in flexibility.

So, in your scenario, how would you handle the 29 different types of web
browser that have visited my website in the past year? Have 29 different
templates containing the same content (but different mangled code), or one
XHTML template that they can all parse perfectly?

> If someone else is trying to screen-scrape me, and can't easily parse stuff
> because it's not XHTML, tough luck

The problem with your argument there is that the "... someone else ..." who
is "... trying to screen-scrape ..." you will be the browser of your
visitor, which is trying to parse the non-standard code that you are using.
It'll read your code, try and make the best attempt at displaying it against
it's internal processing SGML "rule set" and then, probably, show a
sub-standard result.

> I don't see this 'retargetting' thing as that valid an argument for XHTML.

I'm not sure what you mean by retargeting -- one of the primary reasons for
using standardized mark up languages (XHTML, HTML, XML, whatever) is that
when a new browser or browsing device comes along, then the content that
you've already marked up is ready for the new device. By correctly using
mark up languages code that comply with a standard, you're helping the
browser manufacturers to develop browsers which function correctly.

Regards
Mark Howells
<http://www.mark.ac/evl/>



From kjs at ratking.co.uk  Fri Aug 16 07:47:01 2002
From: kjs at ratking.co.uk (Kevin Stevens)
Date: Fri Aug 16 07:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL problem
References: <001701c24521$6d4ebff0$8102a8c0@000347D72515>
Message-ID: <01ce01c24522$a1ef14c0$0100a8c0@k0k8u7>

> In another database, or table? I don't think that you have given us enough
> info to solve the situation. Are there two tables, two table in two
> databases, or something else? Can you describe the tables?

WOW, speedy results guys, thanks. Perhaps I should explain, I've opened the
first database, grabbed the Primary Key and turned it into a string.

set RSPKey = conn.execute ("select PKey from Descs")
set PKey = (RSPKey("PKey"))

and then use it to collect all the results that match it

("select * from FaveList where pkmatch =" &PKey)

which works fine and displays all the results. However, I don't know if this
is an Access issue, but instead of showing the results as
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 etc
it shows them as
11 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
which is why I want to order them properly.

Ta

Kevin Stevens
kjs at ratking.co.uk



From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Fri Aug 16 07:49:01 2002
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Fri Aug 16 07:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL problem
In-Reply-To: <01bc01c2451f$db385500$0100a8c0@k0k8u7>
Message-ID: <000001c24523$67e68e10$8102a8c0@000347D72515>

[snip]
I want to display the results from a database that picks all the records
that match the primary key in another database and then displays them in
ascending order but I can't work out the right SQL statement. What I want is
something along the lines of...

("select * from FaveList where pkmatch =" &PKey "order by Product_ID asc:")
[/snip]

In another database, or table? I don't think that you have given us enough
info to solve the situation. Are there two tables, two table in two
databases, or something else? Can you describe the tables?

SELECT *
FROM FaveList f, OtherList o
WHERE f.Pkey = o.Pkey
ORDER BY f.Product_ID ASC

Jay

***********************************************************
* Texas PHP Developers Conf  Spring 2003                  *
* T Bar M Resort & Conference Center                      *
* New Braunfels, Texas                                    *
* San Antonio Area PHP Developers Group                   *
* Interested? Contact jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com *
***********************************************************




From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Fri Aug 16 07:52:01 2002
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Fri Aug 16 07:52:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL problem
In-Reply-To: <01ce01c24522$a1ef14c0$0100a8c0@k0k8u7>
Message-ID: <000101c24523$c8591b50$8102a8c0@000347D72515>

[snip]
which works fine and displays all the results. However, I don't know if this
is an Access issue, but instead of showing the results as
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 etc
it shows them as
11 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
which is why I want to order them properly.
[/snip]

This can all be done in SQL, then displayed via ASP. Post the table
structure and let's have a go at that.

Jay

***********************************************************
* Texas PHP Developers Conf  Spring 2003                  *
* T Bar M Resort & Conference Center                      *
* New Braunfels, Texas                                    *
* San Antonio Area PHP Developers Group                   *
* Interested? Contact jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com *
***********************************************************




From mark at cyberfuddle.com  Fri Aug 16 07:54:01 2002
From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher)
Date: Fri Aug 16 07:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
References: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A130@fsjubj09> <3D5CD7FD.1080809@cyberfuddle.com> <3D5CDF9F.7060801@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <3D5CF5DF.8060102@cyberfuddle.com>

Lachlan Cannon wrote:
> Mark Gallagher wrote:
>
>>> I was thinking the same thing. :)
>>>
>>> The problem I'd see though, is how do you specify parent/child page
>>> relationships in HTML? Go from a page deep in Windows to a page deep in
>>> Office in one click, how does the tree know that the Office page is five
>>> levels down in the Office section?
>>
>> <link rel="parent" href="foo.html" type="text/html">
>> <link rev="child" href="bar.html" type="text/html">
>>
>> Rinse, repeat :-)
>
> Actually, I've always thought rev was kind of useless. Is there
> *anything* you can say with rev that can't be said with rel?

No, but anything you would say with rev that you're now saying with rel
must be said from another page.

I can't really see any practical uses for rev (who needs links pointing
*towards* the page you're reading?), but it *is* different to rel.

> Web: http://illuminosity.net/

Oooh, domain-enhanced!


--
Mark Gallagher
Desperately attempting - and failing - to stay on topic since 1999
fuddleriffic - http://cyberfuddle.com/
blog - http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/



From list01 at theparagon.org  Fri Aug 16 07:54:29 2002
From: list01 at theparagon.org ({ schaapy })
Date: Fri Aug 16 07:54:29 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
In-Reply-To: <20020815234316.10967.qmail@web12608.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B9826E0E.B3B%list01@theparagon.org>


> This is a forum where a bunch of developers like us discuss moving
> from HTML to XHTML. Again, this has nothing to do with ROI or
> business arguments, which was the question.
>
> What I am looking for is insight into how one might make the case for
> using XHTML/Standards/CSS instead of the "old ways" of doing things.
> If you say you save money, *tell me how*. If you say it saves time,
> *explain how*.
>
> Tom


My first question is what type of company is this and how big is it? This
would play a big role on what type of argument a person would create.

My other question is for Frank? What is the size of your company? If you
aren't in a big corporate setting with over 200-500 people you'll probably
have a much different perspective on things.

I used to work for smaller firms as well as ALOT of freelance (haha still do
freelance) and thought like you - once I came over to the corporate side
things change and cocky, little programmers that liked to act like everyone
should know what the best thing is - gets thrown out the window.


Anyway - I'm also working on this same problem. My boss however wants to use
the newest and best technology but still needs me to create a damn good
argument for doing so. I need to get things done - not learn and play around
with new toys.

One thing I look at is how things are usually done in the past and how
things filter down from what our government is doing. Right now the
government is requiring their sites to be accessible to people with
disabilities. I see that filtering down into the common everyday business in
the next 5 years. (probably less)

HTML isn't able to support these type of requests - at least not very well.

My argument along with that would be the same as someone wanting to install
a handicap ramp or bathroom. They can't really debate on if they want to do
that or not. However, they can debate the issue of a websites compatibly  -
for now at least.

I would try to bring these up and let them know that it doesn't need to be
done right now but what you would hate to see if something almost like Y2K -
where something comes about and then millions of dollars are spent to change
this problem all at once. Where as if it was discussed about before - you
could have started working on things and then been ready for when it came
about.

Another advantage of that is your company will now be ready while your
competition is scrambling around. At that time you'll be able to work harder
on selling potential clients your products while other companies have to
split their focus.

I agree this is only one reason and there are many more. I'll try to come up
with another argument as well :-)

---------------------
Aaron Schaap
www.theparagon.org






From roselli at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 16 08:18:01 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Fri Aug 16 08:18:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Looking for info on units of measurement
In-Reply-To: <3D5CE5CF.7040000@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <200208161317.g7GDHAB4030226@leo.evolt.org>

> From: Lachlan Cannon <luminosity at members.evolt.org>
>
> I'm pretty sure Japan uses Metric. At least all the measurements I've
> learnt in Japanese have been metric. I could be wrong though.. it
> could be because Aus measures are metric or something.

japan uses metric...

except, perhaps, when it comes to burgers... even then, they fall to
the mighty quarter-pounder...

(references back to a conversation on thechat about the proper way
to weigh meat)


--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035


From roselli at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 16 08:18:22 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Fri Aug 16 08:18:22 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020816090957.00a8d500@mail.gmx.net>
References: <200208152217.g7FMH0B4023131@leo.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <200208161317.g7GDHAB4030225@leo.evolt.org>

> From: m u i n a r <muinar at gmx.net>
[...]
> Aardvark, I wonder if you have a special way to archive the messages
> that has advantages over the way Eudora stores them? Again, this is
> not to fight for Eudora, I'm just interested into ways to approve my
> workflow, anytime.
[...]

nope... i once exported them so each message was a text file...
that was silly... now i export lumps of messages to one text file
based on either a number count or a date spread... since june, i've
made two archives (of at least 250MB) of 20,000 list administration
notices... the only reason i chose 20k is that at around that
number, it takes about a half-second to draw the contents of the
mail folder in Pegasus, and that's too long for me...

otherwise, nope, just plain text files, stored in folders to correspond
with my mail folders...


--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035


From kjs at ratking.co.uk  Fri Aug 16 08:26:01 2002
From: kjs at ratking.co.uk (Kevin Stevens)
Date: Fri Aug 16 08:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL problem
References: <000001c24523$67e68e10$8102a8c0@000347D72515>
Message-ID: <01e201c24528$14e733e0$0100a8c0@k0k8u7>

> In another database, or table? I don't think that you have given us enough
> info to solve the situation. Are there two tables, two table in two
> databases, or something else? Can you describe the tables?

OK, sorry, I think I've been getting my jargon wrong. I have 2 tables, 1
called Descs which contains just two columns...

PKey ? Catagory
-----------------------------------
1       ? Music
2       ? Humour
3       ? Computer stuff

and a second table called FaveList which contains

Primary_ID ? pkmatch ? Description
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1               ? 1            ? Cardiacs Homepage
2               ? 1            ? Offspring Homepage
3               ? 2            ? Popbitch
4               ? 3            ? Evolt

What I am trying to do here is put all the contents of my Favourites folder
on-line so I can access them wherever I am. So the idea is to print the
catagory and then populate a dropdown box next to it with anything that
matches PKey with pkmatch and display the results using PKey in ascending
order. Here's the relevant code...

set RSPKey = conn.execute ("select PKey from Descs")
do until RSPkey.eof = true
set PKey = (RSPKey("PKey"))

set RSDesc = conn.execute ("select Catagory from Descs")
do until RSDesc.eof = true

response.write "<table border=1 cellspacing=10 cellpadding=1>" &"<tr>" &"<td
width=100px>" &(RSDesc("Catagory")) &"</td>"

set RSOptions = conn.execute ("select * from FaveList where pkmatch ="
&PKey)

do until RSOptions.eof
content = content &"<option>" &(RSOptions("Description")) &"</option>"
RSOptions.movenext
loop

RSOptions.close
set RSOptions = nothing
%>

<form method="post" action="siteresult.asp">
<td width="300px">
<select size="1" name="dropdown_menu">
<%=content%>
</select>
</td>
<td>
<input type="submit" value="Go to site">
</td>
</form>
</table>

Hope I've explained myself properly this time :)

Kevin Stevens
kjs at ratking.co.uk



From luminosity at members.evolt.org  Fri Aug 16 08:31:00 2002
From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Fri Aug 16 08:31:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
References: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A130@fsjubj09> <3D5CD7FD.1080809@cyberfuddle.com> <3D5CDF9F.7060801@members.evolt.org> <3D5CF5DF.8060102@cyberfuddle.com>
Message-ID: <3D5CFE43.5060202@members.evolt.org>

Mark Gallagher wrote:
>> Actually, I've always thought rev was kind of useless. Is there
>> *anything* you can say with rev that can't be said with rel?
>
>
> No, but anything you would say with rev that you're now saying with rel
> must be said from another page.

Yeah but any relationship from that page to this one is simply the
reverse of this one to that one and is therefore implied? ie, if that's
the next document from this one then logically this must be the last
from that one...

> I can't really see any practical uses for rev (who needs links pointing
> *towards* the page you're reading?), but it *is* different to rel.

>> Web: http://illuminosity.net/
>
>
> Oooh, domain-enhanced!

As soon as it's up and running anyway... heh.
--
Lach
__________________________________________
Web: http://illuminosity.net/
E-mail: lach at illuminosity.net
MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
__________________________________________




From michael at tapinternet.com  Fri Aug 16 08:34:01 2002
From: michael at tapinternet.com (Michael Kimsal)
Date: Fri Aug 16 08:34:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
References: <B982BE72.5131%webdev@mountain.ch>
Message-ID: <3D5CFFE4.3070302@tapinternet.com>

Mark Howells wrote:
>>It seems you're saying you make one 'page', then grab that and process
>>it via
>>XSLT or reparse it to extract data.
>
>
> The idea is to contain one page containing your content ("data") and then
> control it's screen, print or audible layout with a style sheet, be it CSS
> or XSLT.
>
>
>>If so, why do that?  If I've two
>>massively distinct agents to target, I'd just use two separate templates
>>(with XHTML or whatever in them) for the specific user agents.
>>Input comes in, gets processed, data for the template is returned
>>to the processing engine, which then calls the appropriate template(s).
>>I don't
>>need XHTML for that, and it affords the ultimate in flexibility.
>
>
> So, in your scenario, how would you handle the 29 different types of web
> browser that have visited my website in the past year? Have 29 different
> templates containing the same content (but different mangled code), or one
> XHTML template that they can all parse perfectly?
>
>

But they can't all parse it perfectly.  I'm dealing with the realities
of today.  The realities are that *most* can display things more or less
the intended way, but we operate with the understanding that no two
browsers are going to behave exactly the same way all the time.  This
WILL be the case even when everyone supports 'standards' 100%, because
there'll still be differences from different vendors.



>>If someone else is trying to screen-scrape me, and can't easily parse stuff
>>because it's not XHTML, tough luck
>
>
> The problem with your argument there is that the "... someone else ..." who
> is "... trying to screen-scrape ..." you will be the browser of your
> visitor, which is trying to parse the non-standard code that you are using.
> It'll read your code, try and make the best attempt at displaying it against
> it's internal processing SGML "rule set" and then, probably, show a
> sub-standard result.
>

Again, you're assuming that someone's browser will digest ONLY *100%*
valid-to-the-spec-published-on-this-day-and-nothing-else code.  That's
not the case, and I wholeheartedly believe it never will be.



>
>>I don't see this 'retargetting' thing as that valid an argument for XHTML.
>
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by retargeting -- one of the primary reasons for
> using standardized mark up languages (XHTML, HTML, XML, whatever) is that
> when a new browser or browsing device comes along, then the content that
> you've already marked up is ready for the new device. By correctly using
> mark up languages code that comply with a standard, you're helping the
> browser manufacturers to develop browsers which function correctly.

The 'retargetting' comment was a reply to the reasoning that the content
in XHTML could be reparsed and represented to another agent for a
different purpose.  (I don't think that was what I actually quoted, though).






From stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com  Fri Aug 16 08:46:01 2002
From: stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com (DESCHAMPS =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?= DvSI/SICoR)
Date: Fri Aug 16 08:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
In-Reply-To: <3D5CFE43.5060202@members.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <000c01c2452b$00036d10$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw>

> Mark Gallagher wrote:
> I can't really see any practical uses for rev (who needs links pointing
> *towards* the page you're reading?), but it *is* different to rel.

Mmmmh. I must say that I've been using link rel for quite a long time,
thanks to stylesheets, but I'm quite hazy about rel and rev.

Anybody could explain exactly what their purpose is in the first place?



From webdev at mountain.ch  Fri Aug 16 08:46:15 2002
From: webdev at mountain.ch (Mark Howells)
Date: Fri Aug 16 08:46:15 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
In-Reply-To: <3D5CFFE4.3070302@tapinternet.com>
Message-ID: <B982CE7A.513F%webdev@mountain.ch>

>> So, in your scenario, how would you handle the 29 different types of web
>> browser that have visited my website in the past year? Have 29 different
>> templates containing the same content (but different mangled code), or one
>> XHTML template that they can all parse perfectly?
>
> But they can't all parse it perfectly.  I'm dealing with the realities
> of today.  The realities are that *most* can display things more or less
> the intended way, but we operate with the understanding that no two
> browsers are going to behave exactly the same way all the time.  This
> WILL be the case even when everyone supports 'standards' 100%, because
> there'll still be differences from different vendors.

They can all *parse* it perfectly -- what they do with it afterwards, with
regard to layout -- doesn't come under the scope of XHTML. Make a page with
just valid XHTML and you'll see that all of the browsers I mentioned will
render it in a clear, logical, structured way. (Unless you're using tables
for layout, in which case they will all mangle it in one way or another.)

Your comment that you accept a difference in layout -- perhaps I
misunderstood the earlier comments about your reticence in using valid
markup.

>>> If someone else is trying to screen-scrape me, and can't easily parse stuff
>>> because it's not XHTML, tough luck
>>
>> The problem with your argument there is that the "... someone else ..." who
>> is "... trying to screen-scrape ..." you will be the browser of your
>> visitor, which is trying to parse the non-standard code that you are using.
>> It'll read your code, try and make the best attempt at displaying it against
>> it's internal processing SGML "rule set" and then, probably, show a
>> sub-standard result.
>
> Again, you're assuming that someone's browser will digest ONLY *100%*
> valid-to-the-spec-published-on-this-day-and-nothing-else code.  That's
> not the case, and I wholeheartedly believe it never will be.

Nor do I -- "digesting" and "correctly rendering" are two wholly separate
and distinct actions. The browsers of today and the future will always be
able to "digest" malformed markup -- whether they render content using this
markup in a legible or structured way is another matter entirely.

Regards
Mark Howells
<http://www.mark.ac/evl/>



From mailinglists at planetgnarly.com  Fri Aug 16 08:47:00 2002
From: mailinglists at planetgnarly.com (Olly Hodgson)
Date: Fri Aug 16 08:47:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Java - Download and Panoramas
Message-ID: <001401c2452b$c586eee0$2600a8c0@comp1>

Hi,

Two vaguely related questions for you all:

1) When a Windows XP user comes across a Java applet, and they don't
have a JRE installed, the MS box pops up saying Download Now (or
whatever). This takes them to a MS page saying "sorry, this isnt
available anymore" or words to that effect. Is there something I can add
to the page which will send them to http://java.sun.com/getjava/
instead?

2) I currently create panoramic images[1] using PixMaker[2]. This
outputs an HTML page which uses a Java applet. If the user doesn't have
it, they need to go to the sun website and install and 11mb download
before it will work. This takes ages on a dial-up modem. Ideally, I
would like to use a plugin that people are more likely to have, or that
will install quickly and easily over 56k dial-up. Does anybody have any
ideas that can output Flash or Shockwave for instance?

Cheers,


Olly Hodgson
http://planetgnarly.com

[1] eg:
http://fourpillars.tablesir.com/tortworth/images/vtours/front.htm
[2] from http://www.pixaround.com/



From mark at cyberfuddle.com  Fri Aug 16 08:50:00 2002
From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher)
Date: Fri Aug 16 08:50:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
References: <000c01c2452b$00036d10$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw>
Message-ID: <3D5D02F3.2040104@cyberfuddle.com>

DESCHAMPS St?phane DvSI/SICoR wrote:
>>Mark Gallagher wrote:
>>I can't really see any practical uses for rev (who needs links pointing
>>*towards* the page you're reading?), but it *is* different to rel.
>
> Mmmmh. I must say that I've been using link rel for quite a long time,
> thanks to stylesheets, but I'm quite hazy about rel and rev.
>
> Anybody could explain exactly what their purpose is in the first place?

REL = relationship of referenced page to referencing page.
REV = relationship of referencing page to referenced page.

So, to use the example Lachlan and I were using earlier, suppose you had
a page named bar.html which was a child of foo.html.  To mark this up
you'd normally use:

<link rel="parent" href="foo.html" type="text/html">

This says "foo.html is my parent."  You'd also be able to use:

<link rev="child" href="foo.html" type="text/html">

This says "I am foo.html's child."  A subtle (and perhaps unnecessary)
difference, to be sure, but still a difference.

--
Mark Gallagher
Desperately attempting - and failing - to stay on topic since 1999
fuddleriffic - http://cyberfuddle.com/
blog - http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/



From mstevens at members.evolt.org  Fri Aug 16 08:57:18 2002
From: mstevens at members.evolt.org (Mike Stevens)
Date: Fri Aug 16 08:57:18 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site check please http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k
In-Reply-To: <MBBBKCIHDGAIONCKNKJJAEDNCDAA.amy@rocky-hills.com>
Message-ID: <DDEAIIMFNNKDDACMPHAKIEBCCOAA.mstevens@members.evolt.org>

Amy,  I looked at the site in Opera, Mozilla, IE6, IE5 and NN4.75 all on
Win2k... The IEs were the only browsers where the site appears to look
"normal" in.  While having a Mac would be nice for testing purposes,
downloading Opera and Mozilla will be almost as good in the mean time.  In
my experience, if the site looks fine on all the browsers listed above any
glitches will be minimal on a Mac.

http://mozilla.org/releases/stable.html
http://www.opera.com/download/


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Amy Johnson
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 2:19 AM
To: TheList
Subject: Re: [thelist] Site check please
http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k


Given my deadline I had to give up on CSS and redo the whole web site in
tables.  I do want to eventually roll over to CSS but I now
realize that I MUST have multiple platforms for my development process to be
successful.  I am currently looking into buying a used
Mac just for the purpose of testing CSS sites.  I have wasted huge amounts
of time on this site and need some sleep.  Good night.

Amy


> Hi all.  I've got a problem!  I need to have this website done tomorrow
(Friday) and I have just heard that it's a mess on
Macintosh
> IE5.  I do not have IE5 (cannot install it now that I have IE6) and I do
not have a Macintosh.  This is my first CSS tableless
> website and boy am I in trouble!  I guess I need to know which platforms
have a problem.
>
> http://www.rocky-hills.com/pasogold22k
>
> Thanks.
> Yikes.
>
> Amy


--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From Gary at star-chaser.com  Fri Aug 16 08:58:53 2002
From: Gary at star-chaser.com (Gary Bland)
Date: Fri Aug 16 08:58:53 2002
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Looking for info on units of measurement
References: <B982B021.511B%webdev@mountain.ch>
Message-ID: <3D5D04E0.2040206@star-chaser.com>

Mark Howells wrote:
>>BTW, on re-reading the originating email, I think the goal might of been a
>>site
>>with a list of units by country, i.e. USA uses the imperial system, Canada
>>uses
>>metric, etc., rather than a list of all possible units without any division by
>>where they might be used.
>
>
> Thanks to everyone for the conversion suggestions, but the above is correct.

The above is not correct. The USA does not use imperial system. The USA
uses American National Standards. If you try to do measurements here
based on BIS you will have a mess.

> We have a project here is Switzerland, where the client thinks it's a waste
> of time including distance details in miles because "nobody uses miles
> anymore".

There are over 250 people in the USA that still use miles.

Gary

--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today



From joel at spinhead.com  Fri Aug 16 08:59:08 2002
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield)
Date: Fri Aug 16 08:59:08 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
Message-ID: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC480460@ireland.spinhead.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> > i dislike that attachment names are changed or a file by
> the same name
> > is overwritten (can't recall which happens) if another file by the
> > same name is already in the attachments directory.
>
> I've never had a file name changed by Eudora.  If I get a
> second attachment with the same name, Eudora adds a 1 or a 2
> to differentiate and not overwrite.  That's the only change.

Adding a 1 or a 2 is a name change. And it can definitely cause problems and
confusion.

I recently sent a file to an associate to upload to a server to which I
don't have direct access. It had issues, so I sent a modified version. They
saved the modified attachment directly to the server, and we spent two hours
troubleshooting why the changes didn't work. We finally realized that Eudora
had changed the name of the second copy. I know nothing about Eudora, but
the person on the other end is an extremely computer/web-savvy type, and
even they didn't realize what was happening. That's a problem, in my book.

In Outlook, if I send or receive two file attachments with the same name,
they keep the same name. It's up to me to avoid the confusion, which is as
it should be. I don't want my software trying to guess what I'm doing, and
changing things on me.

I've considered switching to Eudora many times; I've heard a lot of good
about it. But even after managing a 90-user Outlook base at the office and
using it for my home network for years, I've yet to experience any of the
nightmares so often blamed on the tool. I'm scrupulous about virus
protection, and in an Exchange environment, you can control access to file
attachments to a great degree, which helps with security.

joel


From steve.cook at evitbe.com  Fri Aug 16 09:01:02 2002
From: steve.cook at evitbe.com (Steve Cook)
Date: Fri Aug 16 09:01:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL problem
Message-ID: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D523078D5@SBS>

Hi Kev!

I can think of at least a couple of ways of doing this, though here's a
straightforward method you can use for lots of similar structures.
Preferably you want to avoid the "Recordset in a loop" method - if you had
100 categories you would have to do 100 separate calls to the database -
processor intensive -especially against Access.

Instead, you should match up the info in the database, taking full advantage
of the relational nature of your database.

SQL = "SELECT PKey, Catagory, PrimaryID, Description from Descs JOIN
FaveList ON PKey = pkmatch ORDER BY PKey, PrimaryID"

I open my DB slightly differenlty to you, but you can use any method that
returns a recordSet.

set dbConnection = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Connection")
dbConnection.Open "DSN=DSNName;uid=login;pwd=password"
set RS = Server.CreateObject("ADODB.Recordset")

RS.Open SQL, dbConnection

This will return a recordset with info formatted like this:

PKey ? Catagory                    Primary_ID      ? Description
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1       ? Music                    1               ? Cardiacs Homepage
1       ? Music                    2               ? Offspring Homepage
1       ? Music                    3               ?
http://antennaradio.com/
2       ? Humour                   3               ? Popbitch
3       ? Computer stuff           4               ? Evolt


You then can step through the recordset in your page doing something like
this:

oldKey = 0

do while not RS.EOF
	if RS("PKey") <> oldKey then ' Check whether it's a new category
		Response.Write RS("Catagory")
		Response.Write "<select size=""1"" name=""dropdown_menu"">"
& vbCrlf
	end if

	Response.Write "<option>"
	Response.Write RS("Description")
	Response.Write "</option>" & vbCrlf


	RS.MoveNext
	if RS("PKey") <> oldKey then ' Check whether it's a new category
		Response.Write "</select><br>" & vbCrlf
	end if
loop


(This code isn't tested). Basically you are looping through the recordset.
When you get a new category you close any previous SELECT, print out the
category name and start a new SELECT. This way you make 1 db query and
process it in 1 loop. Nifty huh?

BTW - I've suggested a fun music link for you in the database info above.
Check out their cool and very eclectic stations - should be right up your
street mate ;-)


.steve


-------------------------------------
 Cookstour - http://www.cookstour.org
-------------------------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Stevens [mailto:kjs at ratking.co.uk]
> Sent: den 16 augusti 2002 15:23
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] SQL problem
>
>
<SNIP>
> OK, sorry, I think I've been getting my jargon wrong. I have
> 2 tables, 1
> called Descs which contains just two columns...
> <SNIP>
>
> Hope I've explained myself properly this time :)
>


From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Fri Aug 16 09:07:01 2002
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Fri Aug 16 09:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL problem
In-Reply-To: <01e201c24528$14e733e0$0100a8c0@k0k8u7>
Message-ID: <000301c2452e$4fe27ad0$8102a8c0@000347D72515>

[snip]
PKey ? Catagory
-----------------------------------
1       ? Music
2       ? Humour
3       ? Computer stuff

and a second table called FaveList which contains

Primary_ID ? pkmatch ? Description
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1               ? 1            ? Cardiacs Homepage
2               ? 1            ? Offspring Homepage
3               ? 2            ? Popbitch
4               ? 3            ? Evolt
[/snip]

OK, here is some SQL which may work for you (remeber that SELECT * is bad,
you should SELECT specific columns);

SELECT *
FROM Descs d LEFT OUTER JOIN FaveList f
ON d.PKey = f.pkmatch
ORDER BY d.Pkey

I didn't have time to look at the other code, but maybe later.

Jay

***********************************************************
* Texas PHP Developers Conf  Spring 2003                  *
* T Bar M Resort & Conference Center                      *
* New Braunfels, Texas                                    *
* San Antonio Area PHP Developers Group                   *
* Interested? Contact jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com *
***********************************************************





From jyee at vt.edu  Fri Aug 16 09:08:01 2002
From: jyee at vt.edu (Jackson Yee)
Date: Fri Aug 16 09:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] php dll file
Message-ID: <3D5F0461@zathras>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Maynes" <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 19:00
Subject: [thelist] php dll file


> whoops...
> I have just downloaded php and dont seem to have the php4ts.dll file I have
> php4ts.lib
>
> are these the same?  surely not??

No, they are not the same file, although both of them should be located in the
root directory of wherever you unzipped PHP to.  Did you download the official
version of PHP from

http://www.php.net/downloads.php

?

Regards,
Jackson Yee
jyee at vt.edu
http://www.jacksonyee.com/



From webdev at mountain.ch  Fri Aug 16 09:09:02 2002
From: webdev at mountain.ch (Mark Howells)
Date: Fri Aug 16 09:09:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Looking for info on units of measurement
In-Reply-To: <3D5D04E0.2040206@star-chaser.com>
Message-ID: <B982D3F8.514B%webdev@mountain.ch>

>>> I think the goal might of been a
>>> site
>>> with a list of units by country
>>
>> Thanks to everyone for the conversion suggestions, but the above is correct.
>
> The above is not correct. The USA does not use imperial system. The USA
> uses American National Standards. If you try to do measurements here
> based on BIS you will have a mess.

What I meant was that I was looking for a list of units by country, not
conversion tools.

>> We have a project here is Switzerland, where the client thinks it's a waste
>> of time including distance details in miles because "nobody uses miles
>> anymore".
>
> There are over 250 people in the USA that still use miles.

:o)

Regards
Mark Howells
<http://www.mark.ac/evl/>



From webdev at mountain.ch  Fri Aug 16 09:10:00 2002
From: webdev at mountain.ch (Mark Howells)
Date: Fri Aug 16 09:10:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Java - Download and Panoramas
In-Reply-To: <001401c2452b$c586eee0$2600a8c0@comp1>
Message-ID: <B982D41E.514C%webdev@mountain.ch>

> 2) I currently create panoramic images[1] using PixMaker[2].

[snip]

> Does anybody have any
> ideas that can output Flash or Shockwave for instance?

I use PhotoVista (to create panoramic photos) and Nodester (which outputs
interactive files in Quicktime format).

Relevant links:
<http://www.panoguide.com/>
<http://www.panoguide.com/software/reviews/photovista_v20.html>
<http://www.mark.ac/photo/?type=joi>
<http://www.mark.ac/multimedia/>

Regards
Mark Howells
<http://www.mark.ac/evl/>



From kjs at ratking.co.uk  Fri Aug 16 09:12:01 2002
From: kjs at ratking.co.uk (Kevin Stevens)
Date: Fri Aug 16 09:12:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL problem
References: <3B55A5A1F233D41183A800D0B74D4D523078D5@SBS>
Message-ID: <001101c2452e$a24f18a0$0100a8c0@k0k8u7>

> I open my DB slightly differenlty to you, but you can use any method that
> returns a recordSet.

OK, I see what you're doing here. Thanks for that Steve, I'm going to have a
play around with this.

> BTW - I've suggested a fun music link for you in the database info above.
> Check out their cool and very eclectic stations - should be right up your
> street mate ;-)

Cheers, I'll have a listen :)

Kevin Stevens
kjs at ratking.co.uk




From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Fri Aug 16 09:14:01 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Fri Aug 16 09:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A13A@fsjubj09>

>REL = relationship of referenced page to referencing page.
>REV = relationship of referencing page to referenced page.

The examples you gave both are from the child's point of view. Just out of
curiosity, is there a variant that gives this information from the parent's
view? This type of semantic structure is not inherent in the link tag.

In other words, can you build a tree top-down or does it have to be
bottom-up? For example, given a complete site of HTML, say I want to parse
all the pages and build a tree of parent-child relationships. Can I start at
the root of the tree and find the <link> tag that specifies all it's
children and go from there? Or do I have to read in a page, see if it
references any parents, if not it's the root, if so load it's parent and see
if it has a parent, etc.

BTW Thanks for bringing this feature up. I'd thought I read this in an old
spec years back but have never seen a real application of it. Still looking
for one...

Thanks,
-dave


From mark at cyberfuddle.com  Fri Aug 16 09:21:00 2002
From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher)
Date: Fri Aug 16 09:21:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
References: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A13A@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <3D5D0A23.6020005@cyberfuddle.com>

David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil wrote:
 >> REL = relationship of referenced page to referencing page. REV =
 >> relationship of referencing page to referenced page.
 >
 > The examples you gave both are from the child's point of view. Just
 > out of curiosity, is there a variant that gives this information from
 >  the parent's view? This type of semantic structure is not inherent
 > in the link tag.

There's no reason why you can't have
<link rel="child" href="bar.html" type="text/html">
and
<link rev="parent" href="bar.html" type="text/html">

<snip />

 > BTW Thanks for bringing this feature up. I'd thought I read this in
 > an old spec years back but have never seen a real application of it.
 > Still looking for one...

Great for navigation, especially if you've got a book-like site (which I
think <link>, at least Mozilla's implementation of it, is geared towards).

Currently, Mozilla and Lynx (and maybe Links, I'm not sure) support the
<link> tag[0].  Oh, and (obviously) every recently-updated Gecko-based
browser[1].  Mosaic recognises it too, but I don't think anyone uses
Mosaic anymore.


[0] Yeah, technically Opera and IE do as well as they'll display
     <link>ed stylesheets.  But they don't do much else!

[1] Which makes Galeon, Chimera, Mac AOL 7, Netscape 7 (and maybe 6.2),
     maybe Kmeleon (latest version).

--
Mark Gallagher
Desperately attempting - and failing - to stay on topic since 1999
fuddleriffic - http://cyberfuddle.com/
blog - http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/



From jyee at vt.edu  Fri Aug 16 09:22:01 2002
From: jyee at vt.edu (Jackson Yee)
Date: Fri Aug 16 09:22:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Looking for info on units of measurement
Message-ID: <3D5F3057@zathras>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Howells" <webdev at mountain.ch>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 07:35
Subject: Re: [thelist] (OT) Looking for info on units of measurement


> Thanks to everyone for the conversion suggestions, but the above is correct.
> We have a project here is Switzerland, where the client thinks it's a waste
> of time including distance details in miles because "nobody uses miles
> anymore". I'm trying to find out how true that is, on an international basis
> (primarily for Japan, US, Canada, India, UK and Europe).

The U.S. definitely uses miles, gallons, pounds, and all of those wonderful
non-metric units of measurement (what? me? Bitter?  Nah...). I do believe that
the rest of the world has settled on SI quite nicely though.  It's a real mess
when you try to do anything international, especially in the academic and
scientific communities.  I'm sure that those of us living in the U.S. remember
the $125 million NASA probe which was lost because one team used metric and
one team used standard.

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/

The question now becomes for your client, "How many people from the U.S. are
likely to use our products?" and "How much are they worth to us?"  It's not
difficult to look up a conversion table for miles to kilometers or vice versa,
but if you make thing as convenient for your visitors as possible, then they
are more likely to return in the future.

Fortunately, server-side scripting makes displaying alternative units because
you can simply store one number and do the conversion at request-time.  8-)

Regards,
Jackson Yee
jyee at vt.edu
http://www.jacksonyee.com/



From joel at spinhead.com  Fri Aug 16 09:24:01 2002
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield)
Date: Fri Aug 16 09:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
Message-ID: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC480466@ireland.spinhead.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> I hope that you can find the ROI analysis that meets your
> needs.  If you
> do, be sure to share it with us as I'm sure it will be appreciated.

In case it's not obvious from Tom's frequent references to MACCAWS
(http://www.maccaws.com) that's exactly what the group is working on. And
exactly what they intend to do with it.

joel

--
Joel D Canfield
Know Your Music    http://EGBDF.info
Web Design         http://spinhead.com
Tech for Non-Geeks http://ShellShockRome.com


From stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com  Fri Aug 16 09:47:01 2002
From: stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com (DESCHAMPS =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?= DvSI/SICoR)
Date: Fri Aug 16 09:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
In-Reply-To: <3D5D0A23.6020005@cyberfuddle.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c24533$8a0112d0$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw>

> De : thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]De la part de Mark Gallagher
> Envoye : vendredi 16 aout 2002 16:20
> A : thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Objet : Re: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions

> There's no reason why you can't have
> <link rel="child" href="bar.html" type="text/html">
> and
> <link rev="parent" href="bar.html" type="text/html">

Mmmh, and how would you do if the parent page had, say, 50 documents as
children?
Would you use 50 link rel="child" ?

(just for the sake of understanding this new concept for me)



From joel at spinhead.com  Fri Aug 16 09:48:01 2002
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield)
Date: Fri Aug 16 09:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] site review: http://spinhead.com/new
Message-ID: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC480467@ireland.spinhead.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
http://spinhead.com/new is nearly ready to go live.

Here are my priorities:
1. Function - if it's broken, that's critical
2. Content - spelling, grammar, coherence, professionalism, etc.
3. Usability - navigation, readibility, download time, page dimensions
onscreen
4. Accessibility - for the life of me I can't figure out Lynx, although I
used to use it. But with graphics turned off in Opera and no mouse, it seems
to function. Further analysis and feedback welcome.
5. Look and feel

I've tested in multiple versions of multiple browsers on multiple platforms.
But ignore that and tell me what's b0rken anyway.

Thank you thank you thank you.

joel

--
Joel D Canfield
Know Your Music    http://EGBDF.info
Web Design         http://spinhead.com
Tech for Non-Geeks http://ShellShockRome.com


From joel at spinhead.com  Fri Aug 16 09:50:01 2002
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield)
Date: Fri Aug 16 09:50:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
Message-ID: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC480468@ireland.spinhead.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> > There's no reason why you can't have
> > <link rel="child" href="bar.html" type="text/html">
> > and
> > <link rev="parent" href="bar.html" type="text/html">
>
> Mmmh, and how would you do if the parent page had, say, 50
> documents as children? Would you use 50 link rel="child" ?
>
> (just for the sake of understanding this new concept for me)

No, both of these links go in the *child* document. But the child can say,
"That's my parent" or it can say "I'm her child." Again, subtle difference,
but different nonetheless.

joel


From K_HEYTINK at winebow.com  Fri Aug 16 09:52:01 2002
From: K_HEYTINK at winebow.com (Kathleen Heytink)
Date: Fri Aug 16 09:52:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
Message-ID: <06154D6549B7D5119FC100508BB02DED27ACA2@nj10-exchange.winebow.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: aardvark [mailto:roselli at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 6:17 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: Re[2]: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
>

> now i export to plain text archives, and i can search those
> whenever i want, or archive 'em, and not worry about platform or
> mail client at all...

How do you export to plain text archives?  I'd love to be able to do this,
so I can get my e-mail out of Outlook's clutches here at work.

-- Kath Heytink
Web Designer
Winebow, Inc
www.winebow.com --





From webdev at mountain.ch  Fri Aug 16 09:56:01 2002
From: webdev at mountain.ch (Mark Howells)
Date: Fri Aug 16 09:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Looking for info on units of measurement
In-Reply-To: <3D5F3057@zathras>
Message-ID: <B982DEEC.5160%webdev@mountain.ch>

> The question now becomes for your client, "How many people from the U.S. are
> likely to use our products?" and "How much are they worth to us?"  It's not
> difficult to look up a conversion table for miles to kilometers or vice versa,
> but if you make thing as convenient for your visitors as possible, then they
> are more likely to return in the future.

The project isn't just concerned with the US audience, but that of all of
the tourists who visit this region, over 90% are from the national audience
that I mentioned earlier.

The question of conversion is not the issue, but rather the concept that the
people who visit this region may be more able to appreciate the height of
the Jungfrau when it's 13,641 feet high, rather than 4,158 metres high.

What the client isn't getting is the importance of their target audience
(who, I believe, use feet/miles and not metres/kilometres).

Regards
Mark Howells
<http://www.mark.ac/evl/>



From David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil  Fri Aug 16 10:02:01 2002
From: David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil (David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil)
Date: Fri Aug 16 10:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
Message-ID: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A13C@fsjubj09>

>No, both of these links go in the *child* document. But the child can say,
>"That's my parent" or it can say "I'm her child." Again, subtle difference,
>but different nonetheless.

Hence my original question: Is there a way to reference this structure
*from* the *parent* side? <a> doesn't contain this sort of semantic info.

-dave


From stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com  Fri Aug 16 10:05:01 2002
From: stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com (DESCHAMPS =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?= DvSI/SICoR)
Date: Fri Aug 16 10:05:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
In-Reply-To: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC480468@ireland.spinhead.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c24536$0d317210$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw>

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]De la part de Joel Canfield
> Envoy? : vendredi 16 ao?t 2002 16:43
> ? : 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
> Objet : RE: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions

> > > There's no reason why you can't have
> > > <link rel="child" href="bar.html" type="text/html">
> > > and
> > > <link rev="parent" href="bar.html" type="text/html">
> >
> > Mmmh, and how would you do if the parent page had, say, 50
> > documents as children? Would you use 50 link rel="child" ?
> >
> > (just for the sake of understanding this new concept for me)
>
> No, both of these links go in the *child* document. But the
> child can say,
> "That's my parent" or it can say "I'm her child." Again,
> subtle difference,
> but different nonetheless.

That's not what I was asking BTW, but thanks to make it more precise anyway
;-)



From stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com  Fri Aug 16 10:08:00 2002
From: stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com (DESCHAMPS =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?= DvSI/SICoR)
Date: Fri Aug 16 10:08:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] site review: http://spinhead.com/new
In-Reply-To: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC480467@ireland.spinhead.com>
Message-ID: <002001c24536$7050a8c0$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw>

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]De la part de Joel Canfield
> Envoy? : vendredi 16 ao?t 2002 16:41
> ? : 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
> Objet : [thelist] site review: http://spinhead.com/new
>
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> http://spinhead.com/new is nearly ready to go live.
>
> Here are my priorities:
> 1. Function - if it's broken, that's critical
> 2. Content - spelling, grammar, coherence, professionalism, etc.
> 3. Usability - navigation, readibility, download time, page dimensions
> onscreen
> 4. Accessibility - for the life of me I can't figure out
> Lynx, although I
> used to use it. But with graphics turned off in Opera and no
> mouse, it seems
> to function. Further analysis and feedback welcome.
> 5. Look and feel
>
> I've tested in multiple versions of multiple browsers on
> multiple platforms.
> But ignore that and tell me what's b0rken anyway.
>
> Thank you thank you thank you.

There's a weird bug with NN6.2.1 on Win2k pro (the one I use at work).

The left zone, which should display as blue, does so incoherently.
Screenshots if you want them, just write directly to me.



From gary at work.com  Fri Aug 16 10:09:00 2002
From: gary at work.com (Gary S)
Date: Fri Aug 16 10:09:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript Setting focus to Radio Button
Message-ID: <JCECKGGFCNOKGGEJFDNBMEPLCAAA.gary@work.com>

Hi all,

On selection of 1 radio button, I am trying to shift the focus to another
radio button in a different Group.

Is this possible? I can shift focus to input fields, but not a radio button.

TIA,

Gary



From luminosity at members.evolt.org  Fri Aug 16 10:12:00 2002
From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Fri Aug 16 10:12:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
References: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A13C@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <3D5D1560.8090905@members.evolt.org>

David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil wrote:
>>No, both of these links go in the *child* document. But the child can say,
>>"That's my parent" or it can say "I'm her child." Again, subtle difference,
>>but different nonetheless.
>
>
> Hence my original question: Is there a way to reference this structure
> *from* the *parent* side? <a> doesn't contain this sort of semantic info.
>
> -dave

Actually, a has rel and rev also...

--
Lach
__________________________________________
Web: http://illuminosity.net/
E-mail: lach at illuminosity.net
MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
__________________________________________




From webguy at mail.rit.edu  Fri Aug 16 10:14:01 2002
From: webguy at mail.rit.edu (Chris Blessing)
Date: Fri Aug 16 10:14:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript Setting focus to Radio Button
In-Reply-To: <JCECKGGFCNOKGGEJFDNBMEPLCAAA.gary@work.com>
Message-ID: <HPEGIGLNNNHLBOIKKDLJKEFECKAA.webguy@mail.rit.edu>

Gary, are you trying to change the focus or are you trying to select the 2nd
radio button?

Chris Blessing
webguy at mail.rit.edu
http://www.330i.net

> Hi all,
>
> On selection of 1 radio button, I am trying to shift the focus to another
> radio button in a different Group.
>
> Is this possible? I can shift focus to input fields, but not a
> radio button.
>
> TIA,
>
> Gary



From roselli at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 16 10:18:00 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Fri Aug 16 10:18:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <06154D6549B7D5119FC100508BB02DED27ACA2@nj10-exchange.winebow.com>
Message-ID: <200208161516.g7GFGtB4032030@leo.evolt.org>

> From: Kathleen Heytink <K_HEYTINK at winebow.com>
>
> > now i export to plain text archives, and i can search those
> > whenever i want, or archive 'em, and not worry about platform or
> > mail client at all...
>
> How do you export to plain text archives?  I'd love to be able to do
> this, so I can get my e-mail out of Outlook's clutches here at work.

i use Pegasus for personal mail...

otherwise, in Outlook, you can do the same or similar thing...

File > Import and Export

then just walk through the wizard...

keep in mind, when i output to plaintext, i do that with the
knowledge that i will never be able to import that mail again.  And
Outlook doesn't (if I recall correctly) export all the mail headers
(something i look for)...



--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035


From mark at cyberfuddle.com  Fri Aug 16 10:20:01 2002
From: mark at cyberfuddle.com (Mark Gallagher)
Date: Fri Aug 16 10:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
References: <092C0521BB49C34AB7DF7578B6D513E014A13C@fsjubj09>
Message-ID: <3D5D1807.7020904@cyberfuddle.com>

David.Cantrell at Gunter.AF.mil wrote:
>>No, both of these links go in the *child* document. But the child can say,
>>"That's my parent" or it can say "I'm her child." Again, subtle difference,
>>but different nonetheless.
>
>
> Hence my original question: Is there a way to reference this structure
> *from* the *parent* side? <a> doesn't contain this sort of semantic info.

There is, and it's done the way you suggest: 50 <link>s.


--
Mark Gallagher
Desperately attempting - and failing - to stay on topic since 1999
fuddleriffic - http://cyberfuddle.com/
blog - http://cyberfuddle.com/infinitebabble/



From muinar at gmx.net  Fri Aug 16 10:24:01 2002
From: muinar at gmx.net (m u i n a r)
Date: Fri Aug 16 10:24:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <06154D6549B7D5119FC100508BB02DED27ACA2@nj10-exchange.wineb
 ow.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020816171921.00a2da40@mail.gmx.net>

At 16:46 16.08.02, you wrote:
>How do you export to plain text archives?  I'd love to be able to do this,
>so I can get my e-mail out of Outlook's clutches here at work.

Maybe the fastest way would be to download the free version of Eudora and
import your mail when installing it... Then go into your Eudora folder and
look for the .mbx files...   No joke   :)

Mike




From muinar at gmx.net  Fri Aug 16 10:28:01 2002
From: muinar at gmx.net (m u i n a r)
Date: Fri Aug 16 10:28:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <200208161516.g7GFGtB4032030@leo.evolt.org>
References: <06154D6549B7D5119FC100508BB02DED27ACA2@nj10-exchange.winebow.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020816172326.00a2ecb0@mail.gmx.net>

At 17:16 16.08.02, you wrote:
>otherwise, in Outlook, you can do the same or similar thing...
>
>File > Import and Export
>
>then just walk through the wizard...
>
>keep in mind, when i output to plaintext, i do that with the
>knowledge that i will never be able to import that mail again.  And
>Outlook doesn't (if I recall correctly) export all the mail headers
>(something i look for)...

Eudora does keep the headers, so you can still do searches for them.
And these files are still your Email folders (mailboxes)... you could
as well re-import them to Outlook   ;)

Mike




From scotts at rci-nv.com  Fri Aug 16 10:28:16 2002
From: scotts at rci-nv.com (Scott Schrantz)
Date: Fri Aug 16 10:28:16 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL problem
Message-ID: <D719D61D4BD8D311A26700A0C9E0E7B649EBB4@SERVER1>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Stevens [mailto:kjs at ratking.co.uk]
>
> What I want is something along the lines of...
>
> ("select * from FaveList where pkmatch =" &PKey "order by
> Product_ID asc:")
>
> which doesn't work. How would I do this?

If you're actually using this line, there's a couple of syntax errors. You
need an ampersand and space before ORDER BY, and you need a semicolon at the
end.

("SELECT * FROM FaveList WHERE pkmatch = " & PKey &_
 " ORDER BY Primary_ID ASC;")

Or, if you're using Access you can cheat by using the Query Builder and
creating the query you want, then go to View>SQL View to let Access write
the SQL for you. That should give you a more correct INNER JOIN.

--
Scott Schrantz
work: www.rci-nv.com
play: www.computer-vet.com


From stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com  Fri Aug 16 10:31:01 2002
From: stephane.deschamps at francetelecom.com (DESCHAMPS =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?= DvSI/SICoR)
Date: Fri Aug 16 10:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
In-Reply-To: <3D5D1807.7020904@cyberfuddle.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c24539$abb9fb20$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw>

> De : thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]De la part de Mark Gallagher
> Envoye : vendredi 16 aout 2002 17:20
> A : thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Objet : Re: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
>
> > Hence my original question: Is there a way to reference
> this structure
> > *from* the *parent* side? <a> doesn't contain this sort of
> semantic info.
>
> There is, and it's done the way you suggest: 50 <link>s.

Do you have any real-life example of that?
I've never seen it at work and feel like my culture is lacking.


From K_HEYTINK at winebow.com  Fri Aug 16 10:33:01 2002
From: K_HEYTINK at winebow.com (Kathleen Heytink)
Date: Fri Aug 16 10:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
Message-ID: <06154D6549B7D5119FC100508BB02DED27ACA7@nj10-exchange.winebow.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: m u i n a r [mailto:muinar at gmx.net]

> Maybe the fastest way would be to download the free version
> of Eudora and
> import your mail when installing it... Then go into your
> Eudora folder and
> look for the .mbx files...   No joke   :)


That's an excellent idea - I may just do that - thanks!> Hey - that sounds
like a good tip!

-- Kath Heytink
Web Designer
Winebow, Inc
www.winebow.com --


From judah at wiredotter.com  Fri Aug 16 10:40:01 2002
From: judah at wiredotter.com (Judah McAuley)
Date: Fri Aug 16 10:40:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
References: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC480466@ireland.spinhead.com>
Message-ID: <3D5D1CA2.4030903@wiredotter.com>

Joel Canfield wrote:
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>
>>I hope that you can find the ROI analysis that meets your
>>needs.  If you
>>do, be sure to share it with us as I'm sure it will be appreciated.
>
>
> In case it's not obvious from Tom's frequent references to MACCAWS
> (http://www.maccaws.com) that's exactly what the group is working on. And
> exactly what they intend to do with it.

I figured from the his posts that that was the case.  I was trying to
provide encouragement.  I did just go to the maccaws site this morning.
  I didn't realize that this was the vkit offshoot of the evolt thread.
  I'm glad to see that it is progressing.

Judah





From neuro at well.com  Fri Aug 16 10:54:01 2002
From: neuro at well.com (William Anderson)
Date: Fri Aug 16 10:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] evolt.org outage, 30 minutes, August 18th
Message-ID: <0f9e01c2453d$28239f60$6502a8c0@local.zensoft.net>

All,

Due to networking and electrical work at our new host, CSI, there will be a
short, 30 minute outage affecting all evolt.org services - including
www.evolt.org, lists.evolt.org, members.evolt.org, browsers.evolt.org -
basically all mail, ftp and web services.  None of these services will be
available during the outage.

The outage is planned for midnight Eastern Daylight Time (4am GMT) this
Sunday, the 18th August.  All services should be available again by 00:30
EDT / 04:30 GMT.

We apologise for any disruption this may cause, and also for the relatively
short notice, but it is necessary and will help ensure the stability of
evolt.org services in the future.

--
_ __/|   ___  ___ __ _________  "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned
\`O_o'  / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \  for Sega." -- Brodie, 'Mallrats'
=(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/  \___/ @ well.com :: William Anderson
   U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt!     http://neuro.me.uk/



From luminosity at members.evolt.org  Fri Aug 16 10:56:00 2002
From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Fri Aug 16 10:56:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
References: <002c01c24539$abb9fb20$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw>
Message-ID: <3D5D2011.8030907@members.evolt.org>

DESCHAMPS St?phane DvSI/SICoR wrote:
>>De : thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>>[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]De la part de Mark Gallagher
>>Envoye : vendredi 16 aout 2002 17:20
>>A : thelist at lists.evolt.org
>>Objet : Re: [thelist] Usability Ideas/Suggestions
>>
>>
>>>Hence my original question: Is there a way to reference
>>
>>this structure
>>
>>>*from* the *parent* side? <a> doesn't contain this sort of
>>
>>semantic info.
>>
>>There is, and it's done the way you suggest: 50 <link>s.
>
>
> Do you have any real-life example of that?
> I've never seen it at work and feel like my culture is lacking.

I don't have one for 50 links, but... if you go to my web log
<http://luminosity.f2o.org/thoughts/>, you'll see that on the main page
I use rel="permalink" on the permalink anchors, and on the permanent
page I use link tags to link to the next and previous entries, as well
as up to the top...

--
Lach
__________________________________________
Web: http://illuminosity.net/
E-mail: lach at illuminosity.net
MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
__________________________________________




From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 16 11:10:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri Aug 16 11:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
In-Reply-To: <B9826E0E.B3B%list01@theparagon.org>
Message-ID: <20020816160940.75972.qmail@web12605.mail.yahoo.com>

--- { schaapy } <list01 at theparagon.org> wrote:

> My first question is what type of company is this and how big is
> it? This
> would play a big role on what type of argument a person would
> create.

Yes, true. I work for a startup, about 100 employees. Its definitely
a corporate feel type place. Lots of people with lots of prior
experience and the like, and we have big money backers who expect
results.

That's why, just like you say below - I can't just saunter in there
and say, hey - I'm the front end guy who knows this stuff, this is
the way to go so we are going this way. Like you said, I'll get
handed my walking papers.

Everything that is done here has to be justified in some way, I
imagine many of you deal with the same thing. I'm not saying I have
to check with my boss everytime I'm doing something - I'm saying I
have to have good reasons for doing things, because when an issue or
a bug comes up and somebody asks you why you are doing something such
and such a way - you better have a good answer!

> My other question is for Frank? What is the size of your company?
> If you
> aren't in a big corporate setting with over 200-500 people you'll
> probably
> have a much different perspective on things.
>
> I used to work for smaller firms as well as ALOT of freelance (haha
> still do
> freelance) and thought like you - once I came over to the corporate
> side
> things change and cocky, little programmers that liked to act like
> everyone
> should know what the best thing is - gets thrown out the window.
>
>
> Anyway - I'm also working on this same problem. My boss however
> wants to use
> the newest and best technology but still needs me to create a damn
> good
> argument for doing so. I need to get things done - not learn and
> play around
> with new toys.
>
> One thing I look at is how things are usually done in the past and
> how
> things filter down from what our government is doing. Right now the
> government is requiring their sites to be accessible to people with
> disabilities. I see that filtering down into the common everyday
> business in
> the next 5 years. (probably less)
>
> HTML isn't able to support these type of requests - at least not
> very well.

I agree, this is one of the better arguments. I like the analogy.
Especially if the company wants to work with government contracts,
which we do.

Interesting, I asked this very question at the last big meeting we
had, and apparently we are already in some government contracts. (The
software I work on is essentially facilities management.) Now,
neither our nor our competitors software is compliant. But my boss
made the point that the government understands to a point that it
takes time for change like this to occur so they bend quite a bit
right now when it comes to this.

But I imagine the bending will only last so long before either the
government or lobbyists really start making it an issue.


> My argument along with that would be the same as someone wanting to
> install
> a handicap ramp or bathroom. They can't really debate on if they
> want to do
> that or not. However, they can debate the issue of a websites
> compatibly  -
> for now at least.
>
> I would try to bring these up and let them know that it doesn't
> need to be
> done right now but what you would hate to see if something almost
> like Y2K -
> where something comes about and then millions of dollars are spent
> to change
> this problem all at once. Where as if it was discussed about before
> - you
> could have started working on things and then been ready for when
> it came
> about.

Yeah, thats a good one too, the Y2K thing..not heard anyone mention
that before.

> Another advantage of that is your company will now be ready while
> your
> competition is scrambling around. At that time you'll be able to
> work harder
> on selling potential clients your products while other companies
> have to
> split their focus.

So your saying it could be a competitive advantage at some point. I
can see that as a possibility - every little edge counts.

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
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From muinar at gmx.net  Fri Aug 16 11:19:01 2002
From: muinar at gmx.net (m u i n a r)
Date: Fri Aug 16 11:19:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] A Better Windows Email Client
In-Reply-To: <06154D6549B7D5119FC100508BB02DED27ACA7@nj10-exchange.wineb
 ow.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020816175808.00a29ec0@mail.gmx.net>

At 17:27 16.08.02, you wrote:
>That's an excellent idea - I may just do that - thanks!> Hey - that sounds
>like a good tip!

Voil?  :)

<tip type="email" author="Mike S. Krischker">
Using MS Outlook and want to export your emails to plain text archives?
Consider downloading Eudora (there's also a free version available) and
import your Outlook mail while installing it.

Then go into your Eudora folder on the harddisk and look for the .mbx
files. Each Eudora mailbox is stored as a plain text file, including
the mail headers, so you can easily do advanced text searches in these
files.

If you don't switch to Eudora at that time, you can even re-import these
files into Outlook as Eudora mailboxes, if ever you should need to restore
your binary Outlook message file.</tip>





From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 16 11:20:00 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri Aug 16 11:20:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Discussing XHTML and ROI with your "boss"
In-Reply-To: <3D5D1CA2.4030903@wiredotter.com>
Message-ID: <20020816161903.76648.qmail@web12605.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the plug guys, and in case some of you aren't familiar or
don't know what happened since July 9 (When vkit started):

- there are currently over 150 members on the list
- Zeldman gave us a nice little plug on his page
- A steering committee was elected (of which I am group leader) and
is in place working hard
- There are web, research and marketing teams in place working
- Our beta site with our own mail list and membership info will be up
shortly, so we can break away completely from the yahoo! list.

I will definitely take what has been offered here to the research
group. We don't have a timetable yet for when we will have materials
available, but as soon as things get cranking in that area, I'll post
an update.

If you want to join still, you can either head over to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vkit/ or you can wait until our own
mail list is running (very soon) and go to http://www.maccaws.com/

Thanks!

Tom

--- Judah McAuley <judah at wiredotter.com> wrote:

> > In case it's not obvious from Tom's frequent references to
> MACCAWS
> > (http://www.maccaws.com) that's exactly what the group is working
> on. And
> > exactly what they intend to do with it.
>
> I figured from the his posts that that was the case.  I was trying
> to
> provide encouragement.  I did just go to the maccaws site this
> morning.
>   I didn't realize that this was the vkit offshoot of the evolt
> thread.
>   I'm glad to see that it is progressing.
>
> Judah


=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
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From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 16 11:23:01 2002
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Fri Aug 16 11:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] INPUT fields do not show in Netscape 4.7
Message-ID: <20020816162242.67305.qmail@web13503.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all

I'm trying to get this form to work in Netscape 4. I have already abandoned the aesthetics and am
just trying to make the base functionality work. The exact same page works perfectly in IE and
NS6.

The problem is that no <input> fields are showing up. I checked the source through NN4 and there
is both an opening and a closing form tag.

My guess is that the strange order of nested tags are screwing everything up. I validated the
document and there are no nesting or missing closing tags problems (just some missing type
attributes for style and script...which I'll take care of after the more important matters :).

I copied the tag layout from DOMBrowser. Basically the form fields are within table <td>'s within
absolute divs. There are also some inputs (hidden and submit) outside the divs.

Can anyone see what's wrong or has anyone experienced this before? IS there a fix? Any
recommendations for debugging on my part?

Any thoughts appreciated.
Thank you!
Jon


TAG OUTLINE (those <TABLE>'s under the div1, div2, div3 are where the input fields are)

<HTML>
  <HEAD>
  <BODY>
    <SCRIPT>
    <TABLE>
    <FORM name="f2_Questions">
      <INPUT name="userid">
      #text
      <INPUT name="username">
      #text
      <DIV>
      <SCRIPT>
      <BR>
      <DIV id="div1">
        <TABLE>
        <TABLE>
        <TABLE>
        <TABLE>
        <TABLE>
        <BR>
        <A>
        #text
        <A>
        #text
      <BR>
      <DIV id="div2">
        <TABLE>
        <TABLE>
        <BR>
        <A>
        #text
        <A>
        #text
      <BR>
      <DIV id="div3">
        <TABLE>
        <TABLE>
        <BR>
        <A>
        #text
        <A>
        #text
      <SCRIPT>
      <INPUT>
    <DIV id="DOMBrowserDebugOverlay">

__________________________________________________
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From Greg.Cymbala at Den.Galileo.com  Fri Aug 16 11:35:00 2002
From: Greg.Cymbala at Den.Galileo.com (Cymbala, Greg)
Date: Fri Aug 16 11:35:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] INPUT fields do not show in Netscape 4.7
Message-ID: <F9229CA713C32F41B9F80DAB00D3311B155A3C@denexc04.galileo.com>

Do your input tags have a type attribute?  The options are:

type="button"
type="checkbox"
type="file"
type="hidden"
type="image"
type="password"
type="radio"
type="reset"
type="submit"
type="text"

HTH,
Greg


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From luomat at peak.org  Fri Aug 16 11:40:00 2002
From: luomat at peak.org (Tim Luoma)
Date: Fri Aug 16 11:40:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: Usability Ideas/Suggestions
References: <002c01c24539$abb9fb20$289bf8c1@SDeschamatnw>
Message-ID: <3D5D2AA4.7000905@peak.org>

DESCHAMPS St?phane DvSI/SICoR wrote:

> Do you have any real-life example of that?
> I've never seen it at work and feel like my culture is lacking.

If you go to somewhere on my site, let's say
http://www.tntluoma.com/ethan/daily/

using Mozilla 1.1 or later, you will find the Document > Chapters has a
pretty comprehensive listing of what is normally considered to be a
'site map' in there.

Also, the Top, First/Previous/Next/Last buttons also work on the
/ethan/daily/ part of the site (giving you easy access to previous days)

hth

TjL







From evolt at pixelwright.com  Fri Aug 16 11:48:01 2002
From: evolt at pixelwright.com (James Aylard)
Date: Fri Aug 16 11:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] INPUT fields do not show in Netscape 4.7
References: <20020816162242.67305.qmail@web13503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00a601c24544$c1c12af0$2860398a@newcos.com>

jon,

> I copied the tag layout from DOMBrowser. Basically the form
> fields are within table <td>'s within absolute divs. There
> are also some inputs (hidden and submit) outside the divs.

    Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think Netscape 4.x will treat
absolutely positioned divs as separate documents. Therefore, your form
elements within those divs don't exist in the primary document as far as
Netscape 4.x is concerned.

James Aylard



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 16 11:49:00 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri Aug 16 11:49:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] INPUT fields do not show in Netscape 4.7
In-Reply-To: <20020816162242.67305.qmail@web13503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020816164826.12892.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>

I don't know how complete that code listing is, but you have no TR or
TD..which NS can choke on I believe. IE is better at rendering
"poorly" formed tables. NS just chokes

Tom
--- jon steele <jjsteele22 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> TAG OUTLINE (those <TABLE>'s under the div1, div2, div3 are where
> the input fields are)
>
> <HTML>
>   <HEAD>
>   <BODY>
>     <SCRIPT>
>     <TABLE>
>     <FORM name="f2_Questions">
>       <INPUT name="userid">
>       #text
>       <INPUT name="username">
>       #text
>       <DIV>
>       <SCRIPT>
>       <BR>
>       <DIV id="div1">
>         <TABLE>
>         <TABLE>
>         <TABLE>
>         <TABLE>
>         <TABLE>
>         <BR>
>         <A>
>         #text
>         <A>
>         #text
>       <BR>
>       <DIV id="div2">
>         <TABLE>
>         <TABLE>
>         <BR>
>         <A>
>         #text
>         <A>
>         #text
>       <BR>
>       <DIV id="div3">
>         <TABLE>
>         <TABLE>
>         <BR>
>         <A>
>         #text
>         <A>
>         #text
>       <SCRIPT>
>       <INPUT>
>     <DIV id="DOMBrowserDebugOverlay">
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
> http://www.hotjobs.com
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
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From gswanson at daystarinc.com  Fri Aug 16 12:31:01 2002
From: gswanson at daystarinc.com (Gary Swanson)
Date: Fri Aug 16 12:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript Setting focus to Radio Button
Message-ID: <JCECKGGFCNOKGGEJFDNBKEPMCAAA.gswanson@daystarinc.com>

Sorry if I was vague.

I am trying to use 1 group of radio buttons ie question 1. o yes  o no

to shift the focus to a second set of radio buttons ie question 3. o yes  o
no.

So if the user clicks No on question 1 the focus skips question 2 and goes
to question 3.


Thanks Again.

Gary

>From: "Chris Blessing" <webguy at mail.rit.edu>
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Subject: RE: [thelist] Javascript Setting focus to Radio Button
>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 11:17:57 -0400
>Reply-To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>
>Gary, are you trying to change the focus or are you trying to select the
2nd
>radio button?
>
>Chris Blessing
>webguy at mail.rit.edu
>http://www.330i.net
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> On selection of 1 radio button, I am trying to shift the focus to another
>> radio button in a different Group.
>>
>> Is this possible? I can shift focus to input fields, but not a
>> radio button.
>>
>> TIA,
>>
>> Gary




From szh at softhome.net  Fri Aug 16 12:32:01 2002
From: szh at softhome.net (Syed Zeeshan Haider)
Date: Fri Aug 16 12:32:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Javascript Setting focus to Radio Button
Message-ID: <000801c2454a$f51b51e0$56dc3fca@haidersystem>

Hi,
Let's say, you have two sets of radio buttons in a form named "form1".
One is "r" and other is "s". Each of them contains three buttons. If you
change the tag of any button in "r" group to following:

<input type="radio" name="r" value="radiobutton"
onclick="form1.s[1].focus()">

Then, on clicking, it will take the focus to the second button in the
"s" group of radio buttons.
Note:
s[0] = for first button in "s" group
s[1] = for 2nd button in "s" group
s[2] = for 3rd button in "s" group
and so on...

Hope this helps!

Syed Zeeshan Haider.
http://syedzeeshanhaider.faithweb.com/



From brian at brianreaves.com  Fri Aug 16 12:38:01 2002
From: brian at brianreaves.com (Brian W. Reaves)
Date: Fri Aug 16 12:38:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] 2 CSS Questions
Message-ID: <FCEEIMDAEEKOMKBEPPILMEINCPAA.brian@brianreaves.com>

1)       I want all header tags to be referenced by a single class. Do I
have to create an entry for each H tag:

h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, h7.mail {
background: #fff;
color: #000;
font-family: verdana, helvetica, arial, "sans serif";
}


2)       I think I need to use a contextual Selector but I do not know how
to create it when using more than one tag. This situation uses a class tag
in a div, but their are td & p tags within the div which I do not have
access too:

DIV.mail td p {
background: #fff !important;
color: #000 !important;
font-size: 12pt !important;
font-family: verdana, helvetica,  arial, "sans serif";
padding: 10px !important;
}

TIA,
Brian




From webdev at mountain.ch  Fri Aug 16 12:46:01 2002
From: webdev at mountain.ch (Mark Howells)
Date: Fri Aug 16 12:46:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] 2 CSS Questions
In-Reply-To: <FCEEIMDAEEKOMKBEPPILMEINCPAA.brian@brianreaves.com>
Message-ID: <B98306E3.5181%webdev@mountain.ch>

> h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, h7.mail {
> background: #fff;
> color: #000;
> font-family: verdana, helvetica, arial, "sans serif";
> }

This will apply the style rules to all of the elements in the list -- i.e.
<h1> to <h6> and <h7 class="mail"> (though <h7> is not a valid HTML tag and
so this might not work).

> DIV.mail td p {
> background: #fff !important;
> color: #000 !important;
> font-size: 12pt !important;
> font-family: verdana, helvetica,  arial, "sans serif";
> padding: 10px !important;
> }

This will apply the style rules to a paragraph which is inside a td which is
inside <div class="mail">. To apply the style to the <div>, the <td> AND the
<p>, you'll need to use

DIV.mail, DIV.mail td, DIV.mail td p {...}

Regards
Mark Howells
<http://www.mark.ac/evl/>



From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 16 12:47:01 2002
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Fri Aug 16 12:47:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] INPUT fields do not show in Netscape 4.7
In-Reply-To: <F9229CA713C32F41B9F80DAB00D3311B155A3C@denexc04.galileo.com>
Message-ID: <20020816174557.6228.qmail@web13509.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Cymbala, Greg" <Greg.Cymbala at Den.Galileo.com> wrote:
> Do your input tags have a type attribute?  The options are:

Yes :). Everything was validated correctly using CSE HTML validator.

--- Tom Dell'Aringa <pixelmech at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I don't know how complete that code listing is, but you have no TR or
> TD..which NS can choke on I believe. IE is better at rendering
> "poorly" formed tables. NS just chokes

The DOMBrowser from which I pasted only shows the opening tags. There are tr's and td's, it just
is not showing them in the tree. All tags are opened/closed/nested properly. The tree I posted
just shows the basic order of everything.

--- James Aylard <evolt at pixelwright.com> wrote:
>     Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think Netscape 4.x will treat
> absolutely positioned divs as separate documents. Therefore, your form
> elements within those divs don't exist in the primary document as far as
> Netscape 4.x is concerned.

No need to be corrected...That is exactly it!! Thank you. I closed the main form tag (the one
which surrounds all the div's), then added individual form tags within each div (i.e.
div-form-stuff-/form-/div) and the "stuff" (which includes the form inputs) was shown.

Glad I found the problem...glad, but not happy :(. I guess a workaround could be to have a form
for each div, then, as the user changes the fields within each individual form I could edit values
in an all-inclusive, hidden field, form via javascript. Very messy seeing as how all this has to
be generated via loops and such on the serverside.

Can anyone thing of any other workarounds?? Does netscape treat its own  <layer> tag as separate
documents, like absolute divs?

If there isn't an easier way, I guess I could just forget the div's and output a regular, boring
form all positioned relatively for nn users...then output a message saying "no dynamic form for
you..take that!" :p

Sorry if I offend NN users...but it has to be said :)
Jon

__________________________________________________
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HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
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From dbindel at austin.rr.com  Fri Aug 16 13:07:01 2002
From: dbindel at austin.rr.com (David Bindel)
Date: Fri Aug 16 13:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] 2 CSS Questions
In-Reply-To: <FCEEIMDAEEKOMKBEPPILMEINCPAA.brian@brianreaves.com>
Message-ID: <KFEDKCDLJCPGIDGACLAOOEOMCAAA.dbindel@austin.rr.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Behalf Of Brian W. Reaves
> 1)       I want all header tags to be referenced by a single class. Do I
> have to create an entry for each H tag:
>
> h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, h7.mail {
> background: #fff;
> color: #000;
> font-family: verdana, helvetica, arial, "sans serif";
> }


Unfortunately, you do have to type out the element name.  I'm not sure where
you are getting "h7.mail" from though... the heading (h*) elements only go
from h1 to h6.


> 2)       I think I need to use a contextual Selector but I do not know how
> to create it when using more than one tag. This situation uses a class tag
> in a div, but their are td & p tags within the div which I do not have
> access too:
>
> DIV.mail td p {
> background: #fff !important;
> color: #000 !important;
> font-size: 12pt !important;
> font-family: verdana, helvetica,  arial, "sans serif";
> padding: 10px !important;
> }


"DIV.mail td p" is a reference to all paragraphs inside of table cells
contained in DIV.mail (all p's in td's in DIV.mail).  But this is not what
you want.  You SHOULD write it like this:

div.mail td, div.mail p {
	background: #fff !important;
	color: #000 !important;
	font-size: 12pt !important;
	font-family: verdana, helvetica,  arial, "sans serif";
	padding: 10px !important;
}

This will style all of the td's and p's in div.mail.

HTH,
David Bindel
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From david_kutcher at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 16 13:11:01 2002
From: david_kutcher at hotmail.com (David Kutcher)
Date: Fri Aug 16 13:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: php/mysql and form input...sorta
References: <20020816135901.6BEC73AE3@relay.evolt.org>
Message-ID: <LAW2-OE53NNbwWO5DBh0000534d@hotmail.com>

"Roger Harness" <magic32 at jps.net> wrote:

> echo "<form>\n";
> echo "<table>\n";
> echo "<tr>\n";
> echo "<td>";
> echo ($i+1).". Description:</td>\n ";
> echo "<td>";
> echo htmlspecialchars( stripslashes($row["descr"]));
> echo "</td>\n";
> echo "</tr>\n";
> echo "<tr>\n";
> echo "<td>";
> echo "Style</td>\n";
> echo "<td>";
> echo "<input type=text value=".stripslashes($row["style"]).'>';
> echo "</td>\n";
> echo "</td>\n";

Roger... you might want to consider cleaning up the code and making it
easier for yourself by doing the following instead:

?>
<form>
<table>
<tr>
<td><?=$i+1 ?>. Description</td>
<td><?=htmlspecialchars( stripslashes($row["descr"])) ?></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Style</td>
<td><input type=text value="<?=stripslashes($row["style"]) ?>></td>
</tr>
</table>

it just makes it so much nicer to code, read, etc.  oh, and it's also
faster.

David
www.confluentforms.com



From roselli at earthlink.net  Fri Aug 16 13:13:00 2002
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Fri Aug 16 13:13:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] 2 CSS Questions
In-Reply-To: <FCEEIMDAEEKOMKBEPPILMEINCPAA.brian@brianreaves.com>
Message-ID: <200208161812.g7GICmB4002021@leo.evolt.org>

> From: "Brian W. Reaves" <brian at brianreaves.com>
>
> 1)       I want all header tags to be referenced by a single class. Do
> I have to create an entry for each H tag:
>
> h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, h7.mail {
> background: #fff;
> color: #000;
> font-family: verdana, helvetica, arial, "sans serif";
> }

so you want all <h#> to look the same provided they have the
same class?  try this...

.MailHeader	{	background: #fff;
			color: #000;
			font-family: verdana, helvetica, arial, "sans serif";
}

<h# class="MailHeader">Header</h#>

after all, if you're just going to use it on <h#> elements, you don't
need to be specific... if you were going to use that class all over
the place, then affixing it to a particular element would be good...

> 2)       I think I need to use a contextual Selector but I do not know
> how to create it when using more than one tag. This situation uses a
> class tag in a div, but their are td & p tags within the div which I
> do not have access too:
>
> DIV.mail td p {
> background: #fff !important;
> color: #000 !important;
> font-size: 12pt !important;
> font-family: verdana, helvetica,  arial, "sans serif";
> padding: 10px !important;
> }

if the div has a class of mail, then you can get everything in the
<td> like this:

div.mail td { ... }

if you want the <p> only in the <td> in the <div class="mail">:

div.mail td p {...}
div.mail p {...]

if you want all <td>s and <p>s in the <div class="mail":

div.mail td, div.mail p {...}



--
Read the evolt.org case study
Usability: The Site Speaks for Itself
http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151035/evoltorg02-20
ISBN: 1904151035


From luomat at peak.org  Fri Aug 16 13:25:01 2002
From: luomat at peak.org (Tim Luoma)
Date: Fri Aug 16 13:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: 2 CSS Questions
References: <FCEEIMDAEEKOMKBEPPILMEINCPAA.brian@brianreaves.com>
Message-ID: <3D5D4348.30607@peak.org>

Brian W. Reaves wrote:

> DIV.mail td p {
> background: #fff !important;
> color: #000 !important;
> font-size: 12pt !important;
> font-family: verdana, helvetica,  arial, "sans serif";
> padding: 10px !important;

((I'm assuming this is NOT a print-only style sheet))

Care to explain WHY your font size HAS to be fixed at 12pt?

'pt' is an essentially meaningless unit of measurement on a computer
screen. ... it will be MUCH smaller on Macs   .... and that it is NOT
resizable in Internet Explorer... And you're marking it !important?


At least mark it as 12px (which still is inaccessible and not resizable
in IE, iirc)

Preferably mark it as 1em (heck even .9em)

Consider marking it as 'medium' or even 'small'

Just some thoughts...

TjL


--

Want to know how we can stop sports teams from going on strike?
Read http://www.tntluoma.com/notes/000041.php




From evolt at pixelwright.com  Fri Aug 16 13:27:01 2002
From: evolt at pixelwright.com (James Aylard)
Date: Fri Aug 16 13:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] INPUT fields do not show in Netscape 4.7
References: <20020816174557.6228.qmail@web13509.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00c701c24552$7ced5a80$2860398a@newcos.com>

jon,

> Does netscape treat its own  <layer> tag as separate
> documents, like absolute divs?

    Yes, I believe it does. Even if they are relatively positioned, instead
of absolutely positioned.

> Glad I found the problem...glad, but not happy :(.
> I guess a workaround could be to have a form
> for each div, then, as the user changes the fields
> within each individual form I could edit values
> in an all-inclusive, hidden field, form via javascript.
> Very messy seeing as how all this has to
> be generated via loops and such on the serverside.

    Also, keep in mind that doing this would necessitate reliance on
Javascript, locking out some users and decreasing the usability of the form.

> If there isn't an easier way, I guess I could just forget
> the div's and output a regular, boring form all positioned
> relatively for nn users...then output a message saying "no
> dynamic form for you..take that!" :p

    Increasingly, treating Netscape 4.x as little more than a slightly
enhanced version 3 browser -- feeding it HTML 3.2-level documents and only
basic CSS for text-styling (much like you might with IE 3) -- seems the
thing to do, unless you have a particular need to provide enhanced
capabilities to Netscape 4.x users. You give Netscape 4.x users the content,
but without all of the pretty packaging.

James Aylard



From davidu at everydns.net  Fri Aug 16 14:36:01 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David U.)
Date: Fri Aug 16 14:36:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site CSS problem
Message-ID: <000f01c2455b$e41a8940$3d19fc80@pravda>

Hi,

On my website: http://david.ulevitch.delmar.ca.us/

When the "finger" is off, the site loads fine.  When the "finger" is loaded
everything below the finger is shunted to the left a bit and I can't figure
out why.  Is it a bug in my CSS? In IE?

You'll see what I mean when the page is loaded, otherwise I can take
screenshots.  I am using IE6 on winXP.

Thanks,
davidu
--
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful citizens can change the
world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead






From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 16 14:43:00 2002
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Fri Aug 16 14:43:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] INPUT fields do not show in Netscape 4.7
In-Reply-To: <00c701c24552$7ced5a80$2860398a@newcos.com>
Message-ID: <20020816194212.18125.qmail@web13501.mail.yahoo.com>

--- James Aylard <evolt at pixelwright.com> wrote:
>     Increasingly, treating Netscape 4.x as little more than a slightly
> enhanced version 3 browser -- feeding it HTML 3.2-level documents and only
> basic CSS for text-styling (much like you might with IE 3) -- seems the
> thing to do, unless you have a particular need to provide enhanced
> capabilities to Netscape 4.x users. You give Netscape 4.x users the content,
> but without all of the pretty packaging.

I considered that beforehand. However, in situations where enhanced capability would be prefered
(my case), it may be worthwhile to script a NN only version which would enable these capabilities
for NN users. Bundling this browser with lower-level 3.x browsers (which are used considerably
less than even NN4) may be dangerous in my situation, since the whole application generates code
to be distributed by others to their customers. Hence, a very wide range of users will be reached.
Therefore the dynamic capabilities which use the div's, etc are a _near_ necessity.

I will definitely output a page with simple markup for non-JavaScript users (since the dynamic
version, besides the whole NN input issue) uses JavaScript anyway.

I guess my sympathy for NN user spurs from the fact that there are computer users in my household
who still use NN4, mainly because of their attachment to its mail client. :)

Thanks for the insight James,
Jon

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From cparker at swatgear.com  Fri Aug 16 14:43:34 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Fri Aug 16 14:43:34 2002
Subject: [thelist] NTWRK ADMNSTRTN: [OT] a desperate plea to all you network administrators, i need your advice!
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE07834D@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

thanks for all the advice and general info people. it's helped.


chris.


From cparker at swatgear.com  Fri Aug 16 14:48:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Fri Aug 16 14:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Number of records returned
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE07834E@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

another thing you want to do is dump all your records into an array and
then loop through the array when printing(to the screen of course). why?
because it's a lot faster and keeps the recordset open for a much
smaller period of time.

like so...

Set rsMyRecordSet = Server.CreateOjbect("ADODB.RecordSet")

rsMyRecordSet.Open sql, <string>

rsMyRecordSetArr = rsMyRecordSet.GetRows()



you can learn a lot about it at http://www.asp101.com/ also i think
aspfaq has something on it.

just search for "getrows asp recordset" or some derivative of that.


hope that helps,

chris.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David at softv.net [mailto:David at softv.net]
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 8:23 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Number of records returned
>
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> It depends on the type of cursor that you have opened the
> recordset with.
> You should use a keyset or static cursor. For example,
>
> RS.Open SQL, Connection, adOpenStatic, adLockReadOnly
>
> Also keep in mind that the recordset must be open at the time
> that you check
> the recordcount property.
>
> Dave
> http://java.dbmdata.com
>
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>


From slewis at macrovista.net  Fri Aug 16 16:27:01 2002
From: slewis at macrovista.net (Steve Lewis)
Date: Fri Aug 16 16:27:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP file upload: how to make it safe?
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020816104447.00ab3460@mail.msk.ch>
Message-ID: <3D5D6F5E.8040004@macrovista.net>

m u i n a r wrote:

> How dangerous is a public file upload?
That depends on
1) the audience who has access to upload
2) how you limit what can be uploaded

> I'm checking for file type, size and image dimensions (see following PHP
> code snippet). If it has a width, it should be an image, and image files
> can't be self-executing and harm the server - ?

You are using three mechanisms for this:
1) type
2) size
3) image dimensions

Based on this, I presume that you are allowing ONLY images to be
uploaded.  My greatest concerns is that according to the PHP Website
(http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.getimagesize.php)

"If accessing the filename image is impossible, or if it isn't a valid
picture, getimagesize()  will return NULL and generate a warning."

You perform NO error-checking here.  Yes the code will return an error
when you try to /$img1Width = $imageDim[ 0 ];/ when $imageDim is NULL,
however, this is poor coding practice.

First, be sure there is a valid uploaded file using /is_uploaded_file()/
.  You then want to instead check /if (IsArray($imageDim))/ and trap
this error.  Otherwise use an error throw/catch mechanism with
/trigger_error()/ and /user_error()/ to trap this.

>         $imageDim = getimagesize( $img1 );
>         $img1Width = $imageDim[ 0 ];
>         $img1Height = $imageDim[ 1 ];
>         $type1 = $HTTP_POST_FILES['img1']['type'];
>         if( substr_count( $type1,"jpeg" ) != 0 and $img1Width *
> $img1Height <= 5000 )
>                 {
>                 $newFile = "cat_" . $id . ".jpg";
>                 copy( "$img1", "$dirName/$newFile" );
>                 $textJpg = "Image uploaded.";
>                 }
>
More concerns:
- How is $id generated?  This needs to be generated by an atomic
thread-safe operation (a primary key using identity or auto_increment
for instance).
- Are /registered globals/ off?  (If they are on, you should explicitly
scope your variables whenever possible)
- Which version of PHP are you running?  You should be using $_FILES
instead of $HTTP_POST_FILES as of PHP 4.1.0!
- you CAN get the file type from $imageDim[3] as well, and this method
is probably prefered.
- Where is $newFile coming from?  Don't trust user-generated filenames.
  Consider URLEncoding them as '%20' is less troublesome than ' ' to
your filesystem.
- don't use copy, use move_uploaded_file() instead... again with error
checking!
- why use $img1Width * $img1Height again?  You can check
$_FILES['img1']['size'] to get the actual file size in bytes, which is
probably more meaningful than it's pixel-area.

> Is it still possible to fake all three criteria and upload something
> dangerous? Or, generally asked: Is it less secure than a normal website
> without file upload?

To the latter question: Yes, but there is not much you can do.  You have
no option but to trust that there are no security flaws in PHP itself
(such as http://www.php.net/release_4_2_2.php), or your web server (see
http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2002-17.html), and the file-upload
management system will not itself compromise the server when you have
carefully coded the file upload mechanism.

P.S. I do have an article on handling File Uploads in ColdFusion written
which was submitted to Evolt about the time everyone got busy with the
server relocation, but is presumably waiting on technical/editorial
matters before publication.  Stay tuned.

-- Steve



From lwkraemer at directvinternet.com  Fri Aug 16 16:54:00 2002
From: lwkraemer at directvinternet.com (lon.kraemer)
Date: Fri Aug 16 16:54:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site CSS problem
References: <000f01c2455b$e41a8940$3d19fc80@pravda>
Message-ID: <004701c2456f$36cf31f0$0201a8c0@yoda>

> On my website: http://david.ulevitch.delmar.ca.us/
>
> When the "finger" is off, the site loads fine.  When the "finger" is
loaded
> everything below the finger is shunted to the left a bit and I can't
figure
> out why.  Is it a bug in my CSS? In IE?

Yes, an IE bug. This may offer some insight:
http://users.rraz.net/mc_on_the_rocks/testpage/creep.html

--
Lon Kraemer
-----------------------------------------



From cparker at swatgear.com  Fri Aug 16 17:02:01 2002
From: cparker at swatgear.com (Chris W. Parker)
Date: Fri Aug 16 17:02:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL: using GROUP BY and COUNT
Message-ID: <001BD19C96E6E64E8750D72C2EA0ECEE03307E@ati-ex-01.ati.local>

hi.

(vbscript/access)

i've got a script that sends every unfruitful search term on a website
to a database. the database now contains nearly 300k entries and is
33.8mb big.

here is what i am using right now as an SQL query:

SELECT zrSearchString, COUNT(zrSearchString), zrFromWhere
	FROM ZeroResults
	WHERE zrTimeAdded
		BETWEEN #1/1/02# AND #1/31/02#
	GROUP BY zrSearchString, zrFromWhere
	ORDER BY COUNT(zrSearchString) DESC, zrSearchString

i'm grouping by (as you can see) the search string entered. that means
that if there are three entries...

goggles
goggles 2s
goggle's

...there is going to be three entries. what would it take query wise or
software wise to be able to GROUP BY "goggle" and other keywords so that
anything including "goggle" would be GROUP'ed. i'm also using the WHERE
BETWEEN clause so that i can limit the results from about 5k to more
like 400 records or so.


thanks for listening! err... reading.

chris.


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 16 17:56:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri Aug 16 17:56:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] quoting attributes and tag case
Message-ID: <20020816225550.55714.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>

Two questions fer y'all --

1. I prefer double quoting attributes. Does XHTML care if they are
single quoted? I'm thinking not, but not sure. Reason I ask: If you
write a script that uses document.write to output html - you need to
alternate your quotes of course:

document.write("<td width='10'>foo</td>");

So you end up with single quotes...I guess I could do this:

document.write('<td width="10">foo</td>');

If I really need the double. Its just I'm so used to the other...

2. Tag Case: What do you all use? I've used lower case for some time,
but it seems that in the XML world, its Upper Case for everything. On
the one hand, upper case does make the tags stick out...just
wondering what you all thought.

Here where I contract, the code is brutal, you have upper and lower
case inside a single document, some att's single quoted, some double,
some NOT quoted - again all in the same doc..blech!

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 16 18:09:01 2002
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Fri Aug 16 18:09:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] quoting attributes and tag case
In-Reply-To: <20020816225550.55714.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020816230846.19149.qmail@web13508.mail.yahoo.com>

Tags and attributes are all lowercase.

As far as quoting goes, I read that double quotes are required...but most resources I have read
(including http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#diffs) just say quotes. I always use double quotes anyway.

HTH
Jon

--- Tom Dell'Aringa <pixelmech at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Two questions fer y'all --
>
> 1. I prefer double quoting attributes. Does XHTML care if they are
> single quoted? I'm thinking not, but not sure. Reason I ask: If you
> write a script that uses document.write to output html - you need to
> alternate your quotes of course:
>
> document.write("<td width='10'>foo</td>");
>
> So you end up with single quotes...I guess I could do this:
>
> document.write('<td width="10">foo</td>');
>
> If I really need the double. Its just I'm so used to the other...
>
> 2. Tag Case: What do you all use? I've used lower case for some time,
> but it seems that in the XML world, its Upper Case for everything. On
> the one hand, upper case does make the tags stick out...just
> wondering what you all thought.
>
> Here where I contract, the code is brutal, you have upper and lower
> case inside a single document, some att's single quoted, some double,
> some NOT quoted - again all in the same doc..blech!
>
> Tom
>
> =====
> var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();
>
> http://www.pixelmech.com/
> http://www.maccaws.com/
> [Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
> http://www.hotjobs.com
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From vlbmlofm at videotron.ca  Fri Aug 16 19:44:01 2002
From: vlbmlofm at videotron.ca (Phil Essing)
Date: Fri Aug 16 19:44:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site CSS problem
In-Reply-To: <000f01c2455b$e41a8940$3d19fc80@pravda>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAASdkur+4xgUy1GSWmULjAOmKBAAAQAAAAOAiUuCnxy0eJuXwnemOdXwEAAAAA@videotron.ca>

Davidu,

I was intrigued by this problem, so I grabbed your source and began
playing with it.  Since nothing seemed obviously wrong with the HTML or
CSS, I began to go the process-of-elimination route.  I quickly
determined that, for whatever reason, the PRE tags were causing this
problem, and so I tried something, just for fun....which seems to do the
trick!  I changed the PRE property's display value to INLINE, from its
default value of BLOCK.

Add this to your stylesheet:

PRE {
	display: inline;
}

If any of you CSS gurus can explain this, I'd love to here from you.

-phil

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
Phil Essing
User Interface Specialist
phil at sector404.org

VDL2 inc.
700, rue Wellington  .  Montreal, QC  .  H3C 1T4
tel.: 514.599.5712  .  fax: 514.599.5724
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------



> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of David U.
> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 3:34 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] Site CSS problem
>
>
> Hi,
>
> On my website: http://david.ulevitch.delmar.ca.us/
>
> When the "finger" is off, the site loads fine.  When the
> "finger" is loaded everything below the finger is shunted to
> the left a bit and I can't figure out why.  Is it a bug in my
> CSS? In IE?
>
> You'll see what I mean when the page is loaded, otherwise I
> can take screenshots.  I am using IE6 on winXP.
>
> Thanks,
> davidu
> --
> "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful citizens can
> change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever
> has." --Margaret Mead
>
>
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>




From luminosity at members.evolt.org  Fri Aug 16 21:10:01 2002
From: luminosity at members.evolt.org (Lachlan Cannon)
Date: Fri Aug 16 21:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] quoting attributes and tag case
References: <20020816225550.55714.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3D5DB008.3000202@members.evolt.org>

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
> Two questions fer y'all --
>
> 1. I prefer double quoting attributes. Does XHTML care if they are
> single quoted? I'm thinking not, but not sure. Reason I ask: If you
> write a script that uses document.write to output html - you need to
> alternate your quotes of course:
>
> document.write("<td width='10'>foo</td>");
>
> So you end up with single quotes...I guess I could do this:

Of course you can escape your double quotes as well...

document.write("<td width=\"10\">foo</td>");

> 2. Tag Case: What do you all use? I've used lower case for some time,
> but it seems that in the XML world, its Upper Case for everything. On
> the one hand, upper case does make the tags stick out...just
> wondering what you all thought.

In XHTML everythings lowercase.. a trend that hopefully the W3C will
keep.. I hate uppercase tags. :-/


--
Lach
__________________________________________
Web: http://illuminosity.net/
E-mail: lach at illuminosity.net
MSN: luminosity @ members.evolt.org
__________________________________________




From davidu at everydns.net  Fri Aug 16 21:21:01 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David U.)
Date: Fri Aug 16 21:21:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site CSS problem
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAASdkur+4xgUy1GSWmULjAOmKBAAAQAAAAOAiUuCnxy0eJuXwnemOdXwEAAAAA@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <006001c24594$f2b26890$3d19fc80@pravda>

Phil Essing wrote:
> Davidu,
>
> I was intrigued by this problem, so I grabbed your source and began
> playing with it.  Since nothing seemed obviously wrong with the HTML
> or CSS, I began to go the process-of-elimination route.  I quickly
> determined that, for whatever reason, the PRE tags were causing this
> problem, and so I tried something, just for fun....which seems to do
> the trick!  I changed the PRE property's display value to INLINE,
> from its default value of BLOCK.

Interesting indeed.  I'm no CSS guru either and I hate to take the "but it
validates so it's good" approach, but at my level I'm just getting
comfortable at that level.  Thanks for looking at this.

>
> Add this to your stylesheet:
>
> PRE {
> display: inline;
> }

Yep! That seems to fix it.  I already kinda munged a bunch of the source to
make it work with px's but I'll swap them all back because your way is
better.

>
> If any of you CSS gurus can explain this, I'd love to here from you.

Me too.  Thanks for your work Phil!

-davidu

>
> -phil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------
> Phil Essing
> User Interface Specialist
> phil at sector404.org
>
> VDL2 inc.
> 700, rue Wellington  .  Montreal, QC  .  H3C 1T4
> tel.: 514.599.5712  .  fax: 514.599.5724
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
>> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of David U.
>> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 3:34 PM
>> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>> Subject: [thelist] Site CSS problem
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On my website: http://david.ulevitch.delmar.ca.us/
>>
>> When the "finger" is off, the site loads fine.  When the
>> "finger" is loaded everything below the finger is shunted to
>> the left a bit and I can't figure out why.  Is it a bug in my
>> CSS? In IE?
>>
>> You'll see what I mean when the page is loaded, otherwise I
>> can take screenshots.  I am using IE6 on winXP.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> davidu
>> --
>> "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful citizens can
>> change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever
>> has." --Margaret Mead
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> For unsubscribe and other options, including
>> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
>> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From kstevens89 at comcast.net  Fri Aug 16 22:18:01 2002
From: kstevens89 at comcast.net (Kid Stevens)
Date: Fri Aug 16 22:18:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site CSS problem
In-Reply-To:  <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAASdkur+4xgUy1GSWmULjAOmKBA
 AAQAAAAOAiUuCnxy0eJuXwnemOdXwEAAAAA@videotron.ca>
References:  <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAASdkur+4xgUy1GSWmULjAOmKBA
 AAQAAAAOAiUuCnxy0eJuXwnemOdXwEAAAAA@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <a05111b01b9836e4bd45a@[68.35.112.212]>

On my Mac everything below the finger is still way left.  Try placing
the Pre inside a Div?    Lose the Pre for a Div(block) or put Pre in
a Span(inline).

I looked earlier before the css fix.  No change in IE5.15 and iCAb 2,8.1.

Not a CSS Guru but I try real hard.  Table, Div, Pre, P are all block
level elements.  Block and inline elements do not share but very few
attributes.

Nor do they respect anything but what the Browser is programmed with
and how it is programmed to handle it.

If they(browser mfg.) would just take the w3c recommendation and
program it exactly as written, we would all be out of work.

The

At 4:27 PM -0400 8/16/02, Phil Essing wrote:
>Davidu,
>
>I was intrigued by this problem, so I grabbed your source and began
>playing with it.  Since nothing seemed obviously wrong with the HTML or
>CSS, I began to go the process-of-elimination route.  I quickly
>determined that, for whatever reason, the PRE tags were causing this
>problem, and so I tried something, just for fun....which seems to do the
>trick!  I changed the PRE property's display value to INLINE, from its
>default value of BLOCK.
>
>Add this to your stylesheet:
>
>PRE {
>	display: inline;
>}
>
>If any of you CSS gurus can explain this, I'd love to here from you.
>
>-phil

--
Sincerely,
Kid Stevens

"Warning,
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons.
They will make you crunchy and eat you with ketchup."
-Unknown Author


From phil at sector404.org  Fri Aug 16 22:31:01 2002
From: phil at sector404.org (Phil Essing)
Date: Fri Aug 16 22:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Site CSS problem
In-Reply-To: <006001c24594$f2b26890$3d19fc80@pravda>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAh0/FMQBkxUSB0qj2RjJCvmKDAAAQAAAARwAVkumi4ECNJkLN7fBgxAEAAAAA@sector404.org>

You're welcome David.  Actually, Lon Kraemer's response included a link
(see below) which explains the possible problem.  Apparently, IE 5.5 & 6
on Win32 can choke on nested BLOCK level items.  I do this all the time,
though, so this bug is certainly not consistent with all block level
items.  Although, it seems using the PRE property within a DIV is one
way to reproduce the problem.  All that being said, changing the PRE's
display property, to inline, is a totally valid solution to this
problem.

>Lon Kraemer wrote:
>Yes, an IE bug. This may offer some insight:
http://users.rraz.net/mc_on_the_rocks/testpage/creep.html

-phil

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
Phil Essing
phil at sector404.org

Visit me on the Web at: http://www.sector404.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------



> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of David U.
> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 10:23 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] Site CSS problem
>
>
> Phil Essing wrote:
> > Davidu,
> >
> > I was intrigued by this problem, so I grabbed your source and began
> > playing with it.  Since nothing seemed obviously wrong with
> the HTML
> > or CSS, I began to go the process-of-elimination route.  I quickly
> > determined that, for whatever reason, the PRE tags were
> causing this
> > problem, and so I tried something, just for fun....which
> seems to do
> > the trick!  I changed the PRE property's display value to
> INLINE, from
> > its default value of BLOCK.
>
> Interesting indeed.  I'm no CSS guru either and I hate to
> take the "but it validates so it's good" approach, but at my
> level I'm just getting comfortable at that level.  Thanks for
> looking at this.
>
> >
> > Add this to your stylesheet:
> >
> > PRE {
> > display: inline;
> > }
>
> Yep! That seems to fix it.  I already kinda munged a bunch of
> the source to make it work with px's but I'll swap them all
> back because your way is better.
>
> >
> > If any of you CSS gurus can explain this, I'd love to here from you.
>
> Me too.  Thanks for your work Phil!
>
> -davidu
>
> >
> > -phil
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > -----------------
> > Phil Essing
> > User Interface Specialist
> > phil at sector404.org
> >
> > VDL2 inc.
> > 700, rue Wellington  .  Montreal, QC  .  H3C 1T4
> > tel.: 514.599.5712  .  fax: 514.599.5724
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > -----------------
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
> >> [mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of David U.
> >> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 3:34 PM
> >> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> >> Subject: [thelist] Site CSS problem
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> On my website: http://david.ulevitch.delmar.ca.us/
> >>
> >> When the "finger" is off, the site loads fine.  When the
> "finger" is
> >> loaded everything below the finger is shunted to the left
> a bit and I
> >> can't figure out why.  Is it a bug in my CSS? In IE?
> >>
> >> You'll see what I mean when the page is loaded, otherwise
> I can take
> >> screenshots.  I am using IE6 on winXP.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> davidu
> >> --
> >> "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful citizens can
> change the
> >> world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> >> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> >> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !
>



From chris at fuzzylizard.com  Fri Aug 16 22:44:00 2002
From: chris at fuzzylizard.com (Chris Johnston)
Date: Fri Aug 16 22:44:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] CSS S/W, Which Do you Like?
References: <20020815195839.18859.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3D5DD45E.4080402@fuzzylizard.com>

I use Topstyle all the time to do my css stylesheets. The advantages
that I have found are that the program will validate all of my css and
tell me of all errors and also warn of things that may or may not work
on certain browsers.

The other advantage is that it allows me to preview what the style is
going to look like using a specific page from a website from within the
browser. If I am trying to setup a css only layout, this speeds the
creation process up a lot. Once I am done, I can then validate the css
right from within the editor.

I have not used westciv though, only Topstyle and I highly recommend it
to anyone who needs to do css coding. It really speeds the process up.

//chris

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:

>--- "Brian W. Reaves" <brian at brianreaves.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Any input on http://westciv.com/ &
>>http://www.bradsoft.com/topstyle/index.asp? I have used TopStyles
>>but not
>>Westciv.
>>
>>TIA,
>>Brian
>>
>>
>
>A further question I have on this is why use a CSS sw? Coding
>everything by hand, why would I want to use an editor? I've heard
>something about warning you if something may not work?? Just curious.
>
>Tom
>
>
>





From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Aug 16 23:20:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Aug 16 23:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL: using GROUP BY and COUNT
Message-ID: <01c245a5$4e2eb740$4fae1dd1@rudy>

>goggles
>goggles 2s
>goggle's
>
>... what would it take ... to be able to GROUP BY "goggle"
>  and other keywords so that anything including "goggle"
> would be GROUP'ed

quick question, chris -- obviously if you feed in a specific keyword like
"goggle" then you'd get only one group back, right?  so you aren't feeding
in the keywords, what you must want is just to group by the leftmost N
columns, where N is some number like 6?

if that's the case, then

SELECT Left(zrSearchString,6) as "keyword"
     , COUNT(*)
     , zrFromWhere
  FROM ZeroResults
 WHERE zrTimeAdded
       BETWEEN #1/1/02# AND #1/31/02#
GROUP BY Left(zrSearchString,6), zrFromWhere
ORDER BY COUNT(*) DESC
     , Left(zrSearchString,6)

rudy



From r937 at interlog.com  Fri Aug 16 23:30:02 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Fri Aug 16 23:30:02 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL: using GROUP BY and COUNT
Message-ID: <01c245a6$a159cda0$4fae1dd1@rudy>

> to group by the leftmost N columns

doh!

Left(string,n) operates on characters, rudy, not columns

my punchcard background peeking out again


<tip type="paying tips">
this.poster.credit +=  -1
</tip>



From mpember at phreaker.net  Fri Aug 16 23:48:01 2002
From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton)
Date: Fri Aug 16 23:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] site review: http://spinhead.com/new
References: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC480467@ireland.spinhead.com>
Message-ID: <3D5DD565.1020300@phreaker.net>

Joel Canfield wrote:

>Here are my priorities:
>1. Function - if it's broken, that's critical
>2. Content - spelling, grammar, coherence, professionalism, etc.
>
>
The design looks great.  The only problem I see is the varying designs
used throughout the site.  It is odd that some have the ying-yang thingy
in the centre of the page, others don't.

>3. Usability - navigation, readibility, download time, page dimensions
>onscreen
>
>
It downloaded pretty quickly on my cable connection, don't know if that
is of any use. :)

The navigation takes a bit of thought to work out.  I like the idea of
having the common links at the top of the individual pages.  However,
the use of the inverted images as links just confuses the matter.

>4. Accessibility - for the life of me I can't figure out Lynx, although I
>used to use it. But with graphics turned off in Opera and no mouse, it seems
>to function. Further analysis and feedback welcome.
>5. Look and feel
>
>
It might be worth moving the w3c logos from the bottom of the home page.
 As I find lost of my users are more in favour of navigating to the
specific parts of a site rather than reading a homepage, it might be
worth mving them to the top of the page.  This way they get noticed by
everyone who comes to your site.

--
Michael Pemberton
mpember at phreaker.net
ICQ: 12107010







From jeff at members.evolt.org  Sat Aug 17 01:17:01 2002
From: jeff at members.evolt.org (.jeff)
Date: Sat Aug 17 01:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] quoting attributes and tag case
In-Reply-To: <20020816225550.55714.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BKEKIFEABABEKPANNEHPEEBKGLAA.jeff@members.evolt.org>

tom,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Tom Dell'Aringa
>
> 1. I prefer double quoting attributes. Does XHTML care
>    if they are single quoted? I'm thinking not, but not
>    sure.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

it doesn't care, though i wish it'd require that double-quotes were used since most editors syntax highlighting behaves better with double-quoted attribute values.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> Reason I ask: If you write a script that uses
> document.write to output html - you need to alternate
> your quotes of course:
>
> document.write("<td width='10'>foo</td>");
>
> So you end up with single quotes...I guess I could do
> this:
>
> document.write('<td width="10">foo</td>');
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

that's the reason i give a javascript tip to *always* use single-quotes as the string qualifier.  it makes creating a string of html *so* much easier.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> 2. Tag Case: What do you all use? I've used lower case
>    for some time, but it seems that in the XML world,
>    its Upper Case for everything. On the one hand, upper
>    case does make the tags stick out...just wondering
>    what you all thought.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

lowercase all the way.  i find myself compulsively converting any uppercase tags i find in a document.  of course i compulsively wrap attribute values in double-quotes and reorder tag attributes to the order i'm used to.

.jeff

http://evolt.org/
jeff at members.evolt.org
http://members.evolt.org/jeff/



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 17 01:58:00 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Sat Aug 17 01:58:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] making friendly urls
Message-ID: <20020817065719.69766.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi, I have this URL:

http://www.thywordistruth.net/articles/article.asp?aid=70

I thought there was a way to make this a 'friendly' url..or am I
missing something? Like a permanent bookmark..

Tom


=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Sat Aug 17 02:39:01 2002
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Sat Aug 17 02:39:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] site review: http://spinhead.com/new
References: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC480467@ireland.spinhead.com>
Message-ID: <0eea01c245c0$ea950fb0$c703c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

Hi,
<----- Original Message -----
<From: "Joel Canfield" <joel at spinhead.com>

<Here are my priorities:
<1. Function - if it's broken, that's critical
Yes it's broken:

      The page cannot be found
      The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name
changed, or is temporarily unavailable.



Richard.



From joel at spinhead.com  Sat Aug 17 03:20:01 2002
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel Canfield)
Date: Sat Aug 17 03:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] site review: http://spinhead.com/new
Message-ID: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC48046E@ireland.spinhead.com>

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> <Here are my priorities:
> <1. Function - if it's broken, that's critical
> Yes it's broken:
>
>       The page cannot be found
>       The page you are looking for might have been removed,
> had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.

Um, moved. (Apologies for my boneheadedness in not setting up a bounce.)

I went ahead and made it live, and added a redirect page under 'new' as
well. So, http://spinhead.com and http://spinhead.com/new should both work.

Comments still welcome.

joel


From dbaxo at ihug.co.nz  Sat Aug 17 03:48:01 2002
From: dbaxo at ihug.co.nz (Duncan O'Neill)
Date: Sat Aug 17 03:48:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] simple (?) php question
Message-ID: <3D5E0F74.2010001@ihug.co.nz>

Hi all,

I have a problem with a series of .php pages which
pull data (stories) from a mySQL dataset.

The problem is that the pages are sometimes being
rendered in the browser with quotes and other characters
escaped. Here's a small example;

  \'They seemed very, very close\', one witness claimed.\"

The pages are here ;
http://members.evolt.org/dbo/rumours/rumours.php

The field in question is stored as data type text. I'm
new to PHP, so any advice or suggestions on how to fix
this are appreciated.

cheers,
--
=====================================================
Duncan O'Neill
"Smith The Reporter"
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dbaxo/urban_legend.htm
=====================================================



From Liorean at user.bip.net  Sat Aug 17 04:06:01 2002
From: Liorean at user.bip.net (Liorean)
Date: Sat Aug 17 04:06:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Needing help with a project
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020817111111.030d5d90@pop3.bip.net>

Hello, and sorry for cross-posting!





I've taken up work on my ViewStyles bookmarklet again, and among other
things I've made the bookmarklet url ieMac enabled.
Currently, the bookmarklet uses ActiveXObject("XMLHTTP") in ieWin and
XMLHTTPRequest in moz.
ieMac to my knowledge lacks XMLHTTPRequest or equivalent, but on the other
hand supplies other ways of getting the unmodified stylesheet source.

As I lack a mac, even access to a mac, I need some codeveloper who can do
the ieMac part of the programming. A help in getting the last missing piece
together for moz and ieWin as well - the display of the source styles as
written inside a style tags, preferably unmodified - would also be nice.
(Not to speak of the even more future project of getting meta-tag included
stylesheets, http header included stylesheets and XML PI included
stylesheets to work and be distinguished from the other inclusion methods)

To have a look at the bookmarklet source, look at
<http://members.evolt.org/liorean/viewstyles-c.js> for commented version,
<http://members.evolt.org/liorean/viewstyles.js> for compact version. For
the bookmarklet itself look at
<http://members.evolt.org/liorean/viewstyles.html>

No money is involved as this is a hobby project of mine, but due credit and
recognition, of course.
Mail me in private if you're interested.

// Liorean



From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Sat Aug 17 04:11:01 2002
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Sat Aug 17 04:11:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] site review: http://spinhead.com/new
References: <D0E94826C140C3409057ED957D96AC48046E@ireland.spinhead.com>
Message-ID: <0f8201c245cd$b3e07880$c703c850@wwwv7zwbf035xj>

Hi,
<----- Original Message -----
<From: "Joel Canfield" <joel at spinhead.com>
<Subject: RE: [thelist] site review: http://spinhead.com/new

Well it's certainly original...
It took some getting used to, but there is a consistent style there, and it
is *not* bland.

I'd change this:

Face it. You don't have fifteen grand for an interactive animated 3D
website.
You don't even want one. You just know that if you're not on the web, you're
missing out on something big. We can help.

It sounds like you think I'm a poor dumb-ass who doesn't know what he
wants...
I'm not sure how to rephrase it without changing it completely though

In fact, much of the text is a little presumptuous and contradictory
sometimes.

This:
"Leave it to the corporate giants to plow fifteen
(or even a hundred and fifty) grand into their website. "

goes from plural to singular, and sounds a bit stiff.

"At Spinhead we know that you already have a plan. "
How on earth do you know that?

"And you know that better marketing means growth"
How do you know I know that?

"We promise to do it your way. "
Ahh, so you're begging now are you?

"We don't have any preconceived notions about how it's done ? "
This follows three paragraphs of preconceived notions :o)

"except that we don't like cold vegetables, either."
So that means you expect to make a neat profit off my back?

"More and more, small businesses are taking
advantage of the benefits of the internet. "
Does this mean that it is becoming more frequent for small businesses to
take to the net, or that a larger quantity of small businesses are taking to
the net?
It's no big deal, but I think it sounds better without the comma in there.

Wouldn't this bit:
"Whether you're going to engage in e-commerce,
you want to provide improved customer service,
or you're in an industry ..."

sound better like this :
"Whether you're going to engage in e-commerce,
want to provide improved customer service,
or are in an industry... "

I'd print out all the written text, and ask some people to review it.
Cheers,
Richard



From nansmith at heritageconcord.org  Sat Aug 17 05:23:01 2002
From: nansmith at heritageconcord.org (Nan Smith)
Date: Sat Aug 17 05:23:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] simple (?) php question
In-Reply-To: <3D5E0F74.2010001@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <BDEGINKLKKDNIMKNAMKNEEKKCAAA.nansmith@heritageconcord.org>

Duncan,

Single and double quotes have specific functions in databases, so when
using them in text that you are going to store in a db, you have to
escape them, which is done by putting a backslash in front of quotes.
This allows the db to handle them. When you are pulling the text out of
the database field, before you display it, you have to use a function
built in to PHP that removes the slashes:

$text_stored_in_db = stripslashes($text_stored_in_db);

Were you not the person who entered the text into the db? If you need to
know this, the function to add the slashes before you add text with
quotes to the db is:

$text_stored_in_db = addslashes($text_stored_in_db);

Nan

-----Original Message-----

Subject: [thelist] simple (?) php question

The problem is that the pages are sometimes being
rendered in the browser with quotes and other characters
escaped. Here's a small example;

  \'They seemed very, very close\', one witness claimed.\"



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Sat Aug 17 05:29:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Sat Aug 17 05:29:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] simple (?) php question
In-Reply-To: <3D5E0F74.2010001@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEBIDIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

can you post the code that is pulling the records?

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Duncan O'Neill
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 09:55
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] simple (?) php question


Hi all,

I have a problem with a series of .php pages which
pull data (stories) from a mySQL dataset.

The problem is that the pages are sometimes being
rendered in the browser with quotes and other characters
escaped. Here's a small example;

  \'They seemed very, very close\', one witness claimed.\"

The pages are here ;
http://members.evolt.org/dbo/rumours/rumours.php

The field in question is stored as data type text. I'm
new to PHP, so any advice or suggestions on how to fix
this are appreciated.

cheers,
--
=====================================================
Duncan O'Neill
"Smith The Reporter"
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dbaxo/urban_legend.htm
=====================================================

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
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From dbaxo at ihug.co.nz  Sat Aug 17 05:45:01 2002
From: dbaxo at ihug.co.nz (Duncan O'Neill)
Date: Sat Aug 17 05:45:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] simple (?) php question
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOEBIDIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3D5E2AED.90309@ihug.co.nz>

Andrew Maynes wrote:
> can you post the code that is pulling the records?
>

here's the code in its entirety. Copied and pasted, so
wraps may be wray. The most pertinent lines are these;

<h2><? print($row["heading"]); ?></h2>
           <? print($row["storyText"]); ?>

thanks for any help you can offer.
<?

// connect to database
if (!@mysql_connect("localhost","*****","*******")){

echo("<p>Unable to connect to the database server at this time</p>");

}

//select the rumours table
if (!@mysql_select_db("dbo")){
           echo("<p>Unable to connect to the rumours database at this
time</p>");
}


//select a random value in case the story variable has not been set
if (!isset($story)){
$storyIds = mysql_query("SELECT storyId from rumours");

$stories = array();

$j=0;
while ($row_rand=mysql_fetch_array($storyIds)){

          $stories[$j] = $row_rand["storyId"];					        $j++;
                                               }
$story = $stories[rand(0,$j-1)];
}


// now get the chosen story information out of the db
$result = mysql_query("SELECT heading,plugline,storyText from rumours
WHERE storyId='$story'");

  if(!$result){

	 echo("<p>Unable to connect to the rumours database at this time</p>");
      exit();
  }

  $row=mysql_fetch_array($result);

// Inlcude all information down to the H2 tag
  if (!@require_once("header.html")){

       print("<html><head><title>Rumours | The Urban Legend
magazine</title>" .
		    "</head><body><h2>Error</h2><a href='rumours.php'>Try Again</a> or <a
href='http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dbaxo/'>back to The Urban Legend
magazine</a>");

			}
?>


            <h2><? print($row["heading"]); ?></h2>
           <? print($row["storyText"]); ?>
		  <p class="copyright">&copy; Carl Wyant</p>

<?

//footnote bottom links and hitbox
if (!@require_once("footer.html")){

	print("</body></html>");

}


--
=====================================================
Duncan O'Neill
"Smith The Reporter"
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dbaxo/urban_legend.htm
=====================================================



From dbaxo at ihug.co.nz  Sat Aug 17 06:17:01 2002
From: dbaxo at ihug.co.nz (Duncan O'Neill)
Date: Sat Aug 17 06:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] simple (?) php question
References: <BDEGINKLKKDNIMKNAMKNEEKKCAAA.nansmith@heritageconcord.org>
Message-ID: <3D5E3264.4050805@ihug.co.nz>

Nan Smith wrote:
> Duncan,
>
>
> $text_stored_in_db = stripslashes($text_stored_in_db);
>

Nan,

this appears to have fixed the problem. Thanks
very much. And yes, I'm the person who adds the
text to the db, so I'll take up your other
suggestion.

cheers,
--
=====================================================
Duncan O'Neill
"Smith The Reporter"
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dbaxo/urban_legend.htm
=====================================================



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Sat Aug 17 06:22:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Sat Aug 17 06:22:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] simple (?) php question
In-Reply-To: <3D5E2AED.90309@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCEEBKDIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

I will have a look at the code in the meantime, when you put " (quotes) in a
database you should use something like of that:

$text = "Some text with \\\"quotes\\\" that I'll insert into a database";

In fact PHP will strip 2 back-shlashes (the first and the third) and MySQL will
strip the last one and in the field you'll have just ".


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Duncan O'Neill
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 11:52
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] simple (?) php question


Andrew Maynes wrote:
> can you post the code that is pulling the records?
>

here's the code in its entirety. Copied and pasted, so
wraps may be wray. The most pertinent lines are these;

<h2><? print($row["heading"]); ?></h2>
           <? print($row["storyText"]); ?>

thanks for any help you can offer.
<?

// connect to database
if (!@mysql_connect("localhost","*****","*******")){

echo("<p>Unable to connect to the database server at this time</p>");

}

//select the rumours table
if (!@mysql_select_db("dbo")){
           echo("<p>Unable to connect to the rumours database at this
time</p>");
}


//select a random value in case the story variable has not been set
if (!isset($story)){
$storyIds = mysql_query("SELECT storyId from rumours");

$stories = array();

$j=0;
while ($row_rand=mysql_fetch_array($storyIds)){

          $stories[$j] = $row_rand["storyId"];					        $j++;
                                               }
$story = $stories[rand(0,$j-1)];
}


// now get the chosen story information out of the db
$result = mysql_query("SELECT heading,plugline,storyText from rumours
WHERE storyId='$story'");

  if(!$result){

	 echo("<p>Unable to connect to the rumours database at this time</p>");
      exit();
  }

  $row=mysql_fetch_array($result);

// Inlcude all information down to the H2 tag
  if (!@require_once("header.html")){

       print("<html><head><title>Rumours | The Urban Legend
magazine</title>" .
		    "</head><body><h2>Error</h2><a href='rumours.php'>Try Again</a> or <a
href='http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dbaxo/'>back to The Urban Legend
magazine</a>");

			}
?>


            <h2><? print($row["heading"]); ?></h2>
           <? print($row["storyText"]); ?>
		  <p class="copyright">&copy; Carl Wyant</p>

<?

//footnote bottom links and hitbox
if (!@require_once("footer.html")){

	print("</body></html>");

}


--
=====================================================
Duncan O'Neill
"Smith The Reporter"
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dbaxo/urban_legend.htm
=====================================================

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

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From nansmith at heritageconcord.org  Sat Aug 17 06:25:01 2002
From: nansmith at heritageconcord.org (Nan Smith)
Date: Sat Aug 17 06:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] simple (?) php question
In-Reply-To: <3D5E3264.4050805@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <BDEGINKLKKDNIMKNAMKNCEKLCAAA.nansmith@heritageconcord.org>

Duncan,
This part I am not quite sure of, but I think that your server has "magic
quotes" turned on, so that the slashes get added automatically. Otherwise
the db would have thrown error messages when the text was added to the
table.
If I have stated this incorrectly, can someone else please comment? There
was something on this recently, but I did not pay too much attention to
it because my server does not add the slashes, I have to use the
addslashes() function.
Nan

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Duncan O'Neill
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 7:24 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] simple (?) php question


Nan Smith wrote:
> Duncan,
>
>
> $text_stored_in_db = stripslashes($text_stored_in_db);
>

Nan,

this appears to have fixed the problem. Thanks
very much. And yes, I'm the person who adds the
text to the db, so I'll take up your other
suggestion.

cheers,
--
=====================================================
Duncan O'Neill
"Smith The Reporter"
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dbaxo/urban_legend.htm
=====================================================

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !



From luomat at peak.org  Sat Aug 17 11:40:00 2002
From: luomat at peak.org (Tim Luoma)
Date: Sat Aug 17 11:40:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: making friendly urls
References: <20020817065719.69766.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3D5E7C4A.1070406@peak.org>

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
> Hi, I have this URL:
>
> http://www.thywordistruth.net/articles/article.asp?aid=70
>
> I thought there was a way to make this a 'friendly' url..or am I
> missing something? Like a permanent bookmark..

http://www.evolt.org/article/comment/18/22880/

http://www.evolt.org/article/Search_Engine_Friendly_URLs_with_PHP_and_Apache/17/15049/

I haven't managed to figure out how to do that yet with my site, but
those are the articles that I've read.

TjL



--

Want to know how we can stop sports teams from going on strike?
Read http://www.tntluoma.com/notes/000041.php




From aboodman at youngpup.net  Sat Aug 17 18:02:00 2002
From: aboodman at youngpup.net (aboodman at youngpup.net)
Date: Sat Aug 17 18:02:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] simple (?) php question
Message-ID: <48270-220028617163042765@M2W084.mail2web.com>

This is probably the real problem. Your strings are getting double-escaped
on insert. When strings go into MySQL, single and double quotes only need
to be escaped with one backslash. You can do this manually, with
add_slashes( ), or, PHP can do it for you if you have a configuration
option called "magic quotes" turned on.

If you are getting output from the database that has quotes preceeded by
backslashes, that indicates that you are doing both. You should either turn
off magic quotes, or remove add_slashes() from your insert/update
statements. The first option is probably easier.

good luck,

Aaron Boodman
www.youngpup.net



Original Message:
-----------------
From: Nan Smith nansmith at heritageconcord.org
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 07:23:15 -0400
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] simple (?) php question


Duncan,
This part I am not quite sure of, but I think that your server has "magic
quotes" turned on, so that the slashes get added automatically. Otherwise
the db would have thrown error messages when the text was added to the
table.
If I have stated this incorrectly, can someone else please comment? There
was something on this recently, but I did not pay too much attention to
it because my server does not add the slashes, I have to use the
addslashes() function.
Nan

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Duncan O'Neill
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 7:24 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] simple (?) php question


Nan Smith wrote:
> Duncan,
>
>
> $text_stored_in_db = stripslashes($text_stored_in_db);
>

Nan,

this appears to have fixed the problem. Thanks
very much. And yes, I'm the person who adds the
text to the db, so I'll take up your other
suggestion.

cheers,
--
=====================================================
Duncan O'Neill
"Smith The Reporter"
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dbaxo/urban_legend.htm
=====================================================

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !

--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !


--------------------------------------------------------------------
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From mail at jasoncartwright.com  Sat Aug 17 18:02:10 2002
From: mail at jasoncartwright.com (Jason Cartwright)
Date: Sat Aug 17 18:02:10 2002
Subject: [thelist] making friendly urls
In-Reply-To: <20020817065719.69766.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000201c2460d$7d725800$e7730650@jason>

Looks like your using IIS/ASP so there are two options I know of -

A plugin type thing for IIS called urlrepl -
http://www.pstruh.cz/help/urlrepl/library.htm

If you don't have access to the server (eg its shared space) then there
is another way. Configure the 404 page (your host will probably set this
up for you) to look at the URL requested then (using asp)
server.transfer the correct page. Heres a link -

http://www.asp101.com/articles/wayne/extendingnames/

Jason
www.jasoncartwright.com

> http://www.thywordistruth.net/articles/article.asp?aid=70
>
> I thought there was a way to make this a 'friendly' url..or
> am I missing something? Like a permanent bookmark..



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 17 20:31:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Sat Aug 17 20:31:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] xmtml and internal javascript
Message-ID: <20020818013018.46550.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey all,

I know that javascript must be external like css in XHTML files. I
came across this statement that said you can include internal JS in
XHTML if you enclose it in a character data (cdata) block like so:

<script language="JavaScript">
<!-- <![CDATA[
document.write("<h2>Table of Factorials</h2>");
for(i = 1, fact = 1; i < 10; i++, fact *= i) {
document.write(i + "! = " + fact);
document.write("<br />");
}
]]> -->
</script>

Have any of you done this and does it validate?

Tom


=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org  Sat Aug 17 21:30:01 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan)
Date: Sat Aug 17 21:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] xmtml and internal javascript
In-Reply-To: <20020818013018.46550.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020818013018.46550.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <19259000548.20020817192231@members.evolt.org>

Hello Tom,

Saturday, August 17, 2002, 6:30:18 PM, you wrote:

TDA> Hey all,

TDA> I know that javascript must be external like css in XHTML files. I
TDA> came across this statement that said you can include internal JS in
TDA> XHTML if you enclose it in a character data (cdata) block like so:

TDA> <script language="JavaScript">
TDA> <!-- <![CDATA[
TDA> document.write("<h2>Table of Factorials</h2>");
TDA> for(i = 1, fact = 1; i < 10; i++, fact *= i) {
TDA> document.write(i + "! = " + fact);
TDA> document.write("<br />");
TDA> }
]]>> -->
TDA> </script>

TDA> Have any of you done this and does it validate?

TDA> Tom

Yes Tom, it works and validates. :)

--
Best regards,
 Burhan                            mailto:burhankhalid at members.evolt.org




From sub at shanx.com  Sat Aug 17 21:58:01 2002
From: sub at shanx.com (Shashank Tripathi)
Date: Sat Aug 17 21:58:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] making friendly urls
In-Reply-To: <20020817065719.69766.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00b301c24662$f51b94c0$0200a8c0@SHASHANK>

Tom,


    | Hi, I have this URL:
    | http://www.thywordistruth.net/articles/article.asp?aid=70
    |
    | I thought there was a way to make this a 'friendly'
    | url..or am I missing something? Like a permanent bookmark..


By "friendly URLs",  I am not sure if you meant --

1. "Search engine friendly" URLs which do not have
url.com?variable=1&variable=2 ...etc because search engines do not index
such URLs. In this case, there is a good article at SitePoint
(http://www.promotionbase.com/article/485).

or

2. Something more of a URL snipper like http://snipurl.com which makes
your URLs "persistent" and shorter. Check out a features list at
http://snipurl.com/features.php and let me know if that is the
"permanent" feature you were looking for.

Hope this was useful,
Shashank







From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Sun Aug 18 02:25:01 2002
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Sun Aug 18 02:25:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] xmtml and internal javascript
In-Reply-To: <20020818013018.46550.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAEEPEJKAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>

> Have any of you done this and does it validate?
>
> Tom

Hey Tom!

Yes, and yes. But I didn't know about it until I saw Topstyle 3.0 do it
when it converted my html to xhtml (one more reason for switching to
Topstyle!)

;o)





From notabene at members.evolt.org  Sun Aug 18 02:30:01 2002
From: notabene at members.evolt.org (s t e f)
Date: Sun Aug 18 02:30:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Re: making friendly urls
References: <20020817065719.69766.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com> <3D5E7C4A.1070406@peak.org>
Message-ID: <3D5F4D0E.7090708@members.evolt.org>

Tim Luoma wrote:
> http://www.evolt.org/article/comment/18/22880/
>
> http://www.evolt.org/article/Search_Engine_Friendly_URLs_with_PHP_and_Apache/17/15049/

Another method is to be found here, too:
http://www.evolt.org/article/Making_clean_URLs_with_Apache_and_PHP/18/22880/index.html

The approach is a bit different, so the URLs don't look the same,
although the problem and solutions are quite close.



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Sun Aug 18 10:42:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Sun Aug 18 10:42:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLLOGKNBIKOOOOAJAEEPEJKAA.tonyc@boldfish.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEBODIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

any ideas?

Could not determine the servers fully qualified domain name, using xxx.xxx.x.xxx
for sderver namefopen: no such file or directory
Apache.exe could not log pid to file C:/apache/httpd.pid

Andrew
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From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Sun Aug 18 11:00:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Sun Aug 18 11:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache next error
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEBPDIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

If I take this line

PidFile c:/apache/httpd.pid

out of the Apache config file and start Apache I get these errors

Unable to load dynamic library 'C:\php\extensions/php_exif.dll' - one of the
library files needed to run this application cannot be found in Unkown on line 0

Unable to load dynamic library 'C:\php\extensions/php_gdz.dll' - one of the
library files needed to run this application cannot be found in Unkown on line 0

Unable to load dynamic library 'C:\php\extensions/php_tokenizer.dll' - one of
the library files needed to run this application cannot be found in Unkown on
line 0

any ideas

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From hassan at webtuitive.com  Sun Aug 18 11:10:01 2002
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Sun Aug 18 11:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache next error
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCEBPDIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3D5FC6CD.1050109@webtuitive.com>

Andrew Maynes wrote:

> Unable to load dynamic library 'C:\php\extensions/php_exif.dll' -

Uh. I'd say having directory slashes running both directions is a
bit of a problem :-)

Sounds like you need to go through your httpd.conf file with fresh
eyes and make sure all the path statements are correct...

Your previous reference to not being able to write the PID file
would make me think that path was also invalid (or there's some
permission problem, less common on Win* than *nix).

HTH!
--
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

     -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --




From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Sun Aug 18 11:20:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Sun Aug 18 11:20:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache next error
In-Reply-To: <3D5FC6CD.1050109@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEBPDIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

If I take the line out and run the test Apache I get it cannot locate the
server?

Andrew
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From hassan at webtuitive.com  Sun Aug 18 11:35:01 2002
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Sun Aug 18 11:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache next error
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMEBPDIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3D5FCC80.4000405@webtuitive.com>

Andrew Maynes wrote:
> If I take the line out and run the test Apache I get it cannot locate the
> server?

If you run apache from the command line as 'apache -help' you'll
get a list of runtime options, including

-t : run syntax check for config files (with docroot check)

Probably a good place to start; almost certainly all your problems
are being caused by errors in httpd.conf.

--
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

     -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --




From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Sun Aug 18 11:44:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Sun Aug 18 11:44:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache next error
In-Reply-To: <3D5FCC80.4000405@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCEECADIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

I have checked the httpd.conf. file and nothing appears to be out of place, is
there nothing obvious that is wrong from what I have said?  Could this be
something to do with my network settings?

Andrew



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Hassan Schroeder
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 05:34
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Apache next error


Andrew Maynes wrote:
> If I take the line out and run the test Apache I get it cannot locate the
> server?

If you run apache from the command line as 'apache -help' you'll
get a list of runtime options, including

-t : run syntax check for config files (with docroot check)

Probably a good place to start; almost certainly all your problems
are being caused by errors in httpd.conf.

--
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

     -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --


--
For unsubscribe and other options, including
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From Anthony at Baratta.com  Sun Aug 18 12:16:00 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Sun Aug 18 12:16:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache next error
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCEECADIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
References: <3D5FCC80.4000405@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020818101344.01cc9410@baratta.com>

At 09:46 AM 8/18/2002, Andrew Maynes wrote:
>I have checked the httpd.conf. file and nothing appears to be out of place, is
>there nothing obvious that is wrong from what I have said?  Could this be
>something to do with my network settings?

My question is why you are taking out the line associated with the PID file??
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Sun Aug 18 12:41:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Sun Aug 18 12:41:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache next error
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020818101344.01cc9410@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCECBDIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

because I am getting this error

Could not determine the servers fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.0.1
for sderver namefopen: no such file or directory
Apache.exe could not log pid to file C:/apache/httpd.pid

something I didn't mention earlier was that this is installed on a win98 OS

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Anthony Baratta
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 06:15
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] Apache next error


At 09:46 AM 8/18/2002, Andrew Maynes wrote:
>I have checked the httpd.conf. file and nothing appears to be out of place, is
>there nothing obvious that is wrong from what I have said?  Could this be
>something to do with my network settings?

My question is why you are taking out the line associated with the PID file??
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."

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From hassan at webtuitive.com  Sun Aug 18 12:51:01 2002
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Sun Aug 18 12:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache next error
References: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCECBDIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3D5FDE45.4040006@webtuitive.com>

Andrew Maynes wrote:
> because I am getting this error
>
> Could not determine the servers fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.0.1
> for sderver namefopen: no such file or directory
> Apache.exe could not log pid to file C:/apache/httpd.pid

Not sure those two are related, but --

OK, is the name and IP address you've given the server valid? As in
exists in DNS or at least your hosts file (and the IP address matches
that of your computer)?

The PID file usually goes in the ./logs subdirectory of the apache
installation; does C:/apache exist, as a directory writable by the
apache process?

--
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

     -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --




From jyee at vt.edu  Sun Aug 18 13:03:01 2002
From: jyee at vt.edu (Jackson Yee)
Date: Sun Aug 18 13:03:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache next error
Message-ID: <3D6124F2@zathras>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Maynes" <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 13:42
Subject: RE: [thelist] Apache next error


> because I am getting this error
>
> Could not determine the servers fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.0.1
> for sderver namefopen: no such file or directory
> Apache.exe could not log pid to file C:/apache/httpd.pid

It's definitely something in your httpd.conf file that's causing Apache not to
launch correctly.  Since you're running on Windows 98, there are no file
permissions to set or check, so that wouldn't be a problem.

Which version of Apache is this?

Do you have a ServerName directive in httpd.conf that's set to either
localhost or your domain name?

Does C:/apache exist?

Do the DLL files that PHP can't find exist in the proper paths?

If you keep getting errors, I'd make a copy of httpd.conf, reinstall Apache
and PHP, and add configuration directives one at a time until you figure out
what the problem is.  I've found that to be the best way of debugging Apache
configuration issues.

Regards,
Jackson Yee
jyee at vt.edu
http://www.jacksonyee.com/



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Sun Aug 18 13:03:23 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Sun Aug 18 13:03:23 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache next error
In-Reply-To: <3D5FDE45.4040006@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCOECBDIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

The PID file usually goes in the ./logs subdirectory of the apache
installation; does C:/apache exist, as a directory writable by the
apache process?

This doesn't exist, i did change the config file to point to where apache
resides but nothing,  do I need to create something new?


i haven't changed anything for the first question!  So I have

<VirtualHost 127.0.0.1>
    Port 80
    CustomLog "c:/program files/apache group/apache/logs/main_site_test.log"
combined
    ServerAdmin you at example.com
    DocumentRoot "c:/program files/apache group/apache/htdocs"
    ServerName localhost
</VirtualHost>

Andrew


>
> Could not determine the servers fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.0.1
> for sderver namefopen: no such file or directory
> Apache.exe could not log pid to file C:/apache/httpd.pid

Not sure those two are related, but --

OK, is the name and IP address you've given the server valid? As in
exists in DNS or at least your hosts file (and the IP address matches
that of your computer)?

The PID file usually goes in the ./logs subdirectory of the apache
installation; does C:/apache exist, as a directory writable by the
apache process?



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From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Sun Aug 18 13:17:01 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Sun Aug 18 13:17:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache next error Yee
In-Reply-To: <3D6124F2@zathras>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKECCDIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>


>Which version of Apache is this?

Apache Version 1.3 (and up)

>Do you have a ServerName directive in httpd.conf that's set to either
>localhost or your domain name?

localhost

>Does C:/apache exist?

No

>Do the DLL files that PHP can't find exist in the proper paths?

Not sure about this one!

>If you keep getting errors, I'd make a copy of httpd.conf, reinstall Apache
>and PHP, and add configuration directives one at a time until you figure out
>what the problem is.  I've found that to be the best way of debugging Apache
>configuration issues.

If I do this should I re-install in the folder C:/apache

Thank you

Andrew


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From donald at drnoble.co.uk  Sun Aug 18 13:49:01 2002
From: donald at drnoble.co.uk (Donald Noble)
Date: Sun Aug 18 13:49:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP echoing...
Message-ID: <000001c246e7$e1f2f160$c800a8c0@scotland>

Hi evolters,

I have been usingf PHP for a whileand was wondering what the
best/fastest way to output text is/ I assume is is dependant on the
particular situation, but any thoughts would be helpful.

I am particularly interested in which of these methods is "better"...

<?
# case1
	// some php
	while($i<20)
	{
		?>Some HTML<?=$php ?> html <?
	}
# case2
	// some php
	while($i<20)
	{
		echo "Some HTML $php html";
	}
# case3
	// some php
	while($i<20)
	{
		echo 'Some HTML '.$php.' html';
	}

I have been wondering this for a while, and David Kutcher said in a
recent post that ?> <? was faster, but is that just faster than a series
of echo " content "; ???

Cheers :Donald

--
     http://www.AccessibleComputers.co.uk
 Hardware, Software & Custom built PC Systems




From hassan at webtuitive.com  Sun Aug 18 13:54:01 2002
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Sun Aug 18 13:54:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache next error
References: <3D6124F2@zathras>
Message-ID: <3D5FED0F.2020806@webtuitive.com>

Jackson Yee wrote:

> If you keep getting errors, I'd make a copy of httpd.conf, reinstall Apache
> and PHP, and add configuration directives one at a time until you figure out
> what the problem is.  I've found that to be the best way of debugging Apache
> configuration issues.

Good advice :-)   A reinstall and progressive modification of the
httpd.conf file is probably your best bet; get Apache running in
a basic mode and then add the PHP stuff ...

--
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

     -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --




From dn at dittodesign.co.uk  Sun Aug 18 14:00:01 2002
From: dn at dittodesign.co.uk (dn at dittodesign.co.uk)
Date: Sun Aug 18 14:00:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XP's going round in circles
Message-ID: <007f01c246e9$64bbd1b0$07706ad5@darn>

I boot up and get as far as the option screen for safe mode,
safe mode with networking etc.

But which ever option I choose the system either does a scan disk
makes a repair, freezes then reboots, or freezes early in safe mode
and reboots.

I cannot restart with command prompt.

Any body any ideas ?
I was thinking of taking the HD out and plugining it into this system to
make repairs.

tia,

Darren Yates
dn at dittodesign.co.uk
http://dittodesign.co.uk



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Sun Aug 18 14:00:13 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Sun Aug 18 14:00:13 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache next error
In-Reply-To: <3D5FED0F.2020806@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCECFDIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

should I install it in the same directory or create a new one C:/apache


Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Hassan Schroeder
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 07:53
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Apache next error


Jackson Yee wrote:

> If you keep getting errors, I'd make a copy of httpd.conf, reinstall Apache
> and PHP, and add configuration directives one at a time until you figure out
> what the problem is.  I've found that to be the best way of debugging Apache
> configuration issues.

Good advice :-)   A reinstall and progressive modification of the
httpd.conf file is probably your best bet; get Apache running in
a basic mode and then add the PHP stuff ...

--
H*
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

     -- creating dynamic Web sites and applications since 1994 --


--
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From davidu at everydns.net  Sun Aug 18 14:10:01 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David U.)
Date: Sun Aug 18 14:10:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP echoing...
References: <000001c246e7$e1f2f160$c800a8c0@scotland>
Message-ID: <001f01c246ea$cbf1aca0$2532fc80@pravda>

Donald Noble wrote:
> Hi evolters,
>
> I have been usingf PHP for a whileand was wondering what the
> best/fastest way to output text is/ I assume is is dependant on the
> particular situation, but any thoughts would be helpful.
>

1) I've never found the <? code ?> text <? code ?> method to be all that
much faster. And I find it makes code quite ugly to read.  I use the <?=
syntax in small templates quite often.
example:
file1 >> $foo = 'bar'; include('file2');
file2 >> <?=$foo;?>

2) single quotes are much faster than double quotes and I have huge scripts
which show a noticable difference.
example:
file1 >>print 'foo '.$bar.' baz';
is faster than
file1 >>print "foo $bar baz";

3) For long HTML dumps in php I often either use a template system but if
it's just a one time thing I use the <<< syntax which isn't meant for speed
but makes code easy to read.
example:
print <<<EOF
<html>
    <body>
        <strong>blah</strong>
    </body>
</html>
EOF;

4) This is offtopic but for people who don't know -- The ternary operator is
a HUGE save in terms of time and code readability.  It offers no speed
increase however. (it isn't slower though)
example:
if ($foo) {
    foo_is_true($foo);
} else {
    foo_is_false($foo);
}
TURNS INTO:
(($foo) ? foo_is_true($foo) : foo_is_false($foo));

5) Last offtopic comment. -- If you are ever planning on making an
application support multiple languages it is a good idea to begin writing
strings as using the gettext() methods.  This will allow you to change the
applications lanaguage at anytime without rewriting your code.  It does
offer a speed hit though, so decide if you need it.
example:
file1 >> print _('my text'); // gettext() shorthand
INSTEAD OF
file1 >> print ('my text'); // inflexible but fast way


Hope that helps and then some,
davidu
-davidu




From hershelr at netvision.net.il  Sun Aug 18 14:15:01 2002
From: hershelr at netvision.net.il (Hershel Robinson)
Date: Sun Aug 18 14:15:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XP's going round in circles
In-Reply-To: <007f01c246e9$64bbd1b0$07706ad5@darn>
Message-ID: <005c01c246f3$8155b430$0101c80a@hershel>

> Any body any ideas ?

Boot up from the Windows CD and let Windows make the repair.  If not, try a
reinstall and try to save your registry.  If for some strange reason the CD
won't let you reinstall, try putting the Windows CD on a hard drive and
running the the setup program from there--it can be different.  Why I don't
know.  If nothing works, copy your data (but be wary copying executables in
case there is a virus) to another disk and then format and install
everything again.

It's fun wasting your time like this--I just did it myself this very week
due to a virus.

Hershel



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Sun Aug 18 14:15:17 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Sun Aug 18 14:15:17 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache next error
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCCECFDIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMECFDIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

>Good advice :-)   A reinstall and progressive modification of the
>httpd.conf file is probably your best bet; get Apache running in
>a basic mode and then add the PHP stuff ...


But it has already been installed without any errors, are you saying it has been
installed in the incorrect directory? ie; programs/apache group/apache

Andrew


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From keith.underdown at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Aug 18 14:56:00 2002
From: keith.underdown at blueyonder.co.uk (Keith Underdown)
Date: Sun Aug 18 14:56:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess files
Message-ID: <000701c246f1$7a8a1e90$0100a8c0@underdown1>

The recent thread on search friendly URL's has set me thinking! I can't
decided whether the fact that my site seems to be only partially indexed is
because Google (in particular) is not following all the references because
of the parameters in the URL's or because the site was incomplete when the
robot last passed that way! I suspect the latter or else why should any of
the pages other than index.php have been indexed.

However, this arises from the various solutions offered. They all seem to
involve accessing or creating .htaccess files. My ISP does not allow my
access to the .htaccess file that they have created. If I were to drop my
own into my root would the directives *override* or *add to" those that may
already exist?

Keith
____________________________________
Keith Underdown
St Thomas Dudley Webmaster
Publicity Officer Spire Appeal Committee
www.cofe-st-thomas-dudley.org.uk/index.php?page_title=Welcome



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Sun Aug 18 15:34:01 2002
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Sun Aug 18 15:34:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] .htaccess files
In-Reply-To: <000701c246f1$7a8a1e90$0100a8c0@underdown1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020818133138.01ed99c0@baratta.com>

At 12:57 PM 8/18/2002, Keith Underdown wrote:

>However, this arises from the various solutions offered. They all seem to
>involve accessing or creating .htaccess files. My ISP does not allow my
>access to the .htaccess file that they have created. If I were to drop my
>own into my root would the directives *override* or *add to" those that may
>already exist?

Well that is lame. ;-P

The only way you can drop a .htaccess file in and have it mostly work is if
they have the AllOverride setting enabled so that you can override some of
the Apache configs.

Drop one in and see what you can do.
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."



From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Sun Aug 18 16:50:00 2002
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew Maynes)
Date: Sun Aug 18 16:50:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache next error
In-Reply-To: <3D5FDE45.4040006@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCMECGDIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-admin at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Hassan Schroeder
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 06:50
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Apache next error
I created a new folder C:/apache and the PID file is created now when apache is
started so no problems there, the other problem has not been sorted out
regarding not finding the fully qulified domain name?

this is obviously a config file problem?

Andrew

Andrew Maynes wrote:
> because I am getting this error
>
> Could not determine the servers fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.0.1
> for sderver namefopen: no such file or directory
> Apache.exe could not log pid to file C:/apache/httpd.pid

Not sure those two are related, but --

OK, is the name and IP address you've given the server valid? As in
exists in DNS or at least your hosts file (and the IP address matches
that of your computer)?

The PID file usually goes in the ./logs subdirectory of the apache
installation; does C:/apache exist, as a directory writable by the
apache process?



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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 18 17:46:00 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Sun Aug 18 17:46:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] making friendly urls
In-Reply-To: <00b301c24662$f51b94c0$0200a8c0@SHASHANK>
Message-ID: <20020818224527.7080.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Shashank Tripathi <sub at shanx.com> wrote:
> Tom,
>
>
>     | Hi, I have this URL:
>     | http://www.thywordistruth.net/articles/article.asp?aid=70
>     |
>     | I thought there was a way to make this a 'friendly'
>     | url..or am I missing something? Like a permanent bookmark..
>
>
> By "friendly URLs",  I am not sure if you meant --
>
> 1. "Search engine friendly" URLs which do not have
> url.com?variable=1&variable=2 ...etc because search engines do not
> index
> such URLs. In this case, there is a good article at SitePoint
> (http://www.promotionbase.com/article/485).

After doing some research on some of the suggested articles and
searching about myself, I'm not now so sure this is necessary. Doing
a search on some authors on google comes up with some pages (although
out of date :( ) that are on the site above. The full URL WITH the
?..etc was indexed. It also came up on like the 3rd page, decent
results since I have not done any real optimization with the site.

It seems to me for what you have to go through to get such "friendly"
urls isn't worth the trouble. Plus, now, I have ONE article page that
displays EVERY article. I don't want to end up static article pages,
that defeats the purpose of a templated site driven by a DB.

Thoughts?

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com


From mail at jasoncartwright.com  Sun Aug 18 18:20:00 2002
From: mail at jasoncartwright.com (Jason Cartwright)
Date: Sun Aug 18 18:20:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] making friendly urls
In-Reply-To: <20020818224527.7080.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000201c2470c$a5ab45c0$e7730650@jason>

I would strongly disagree.

I recently ported a site I admin from ASP to ASP.net and changed all the
story URLs to have no ? in them. Google used to deliver about 5-10 users
a day, but now its 100-200 users, and it was only ported a few weeks
ago.

>From http://www.google.com/webmasters/2.html :

<quote>
Reasons your site may not be included.

* Your pages are dynamically generated. We are able to index dynamically
generated pages. However, because our web crawler can easily overwhelm
and crash sites serving dynamic content, we limit the amount of dynamic
pages we index.
</quote>

Having a friendly URL means that Google can't tell if its dynamically
generated.

The webmasterworld.com forums are invaluble for information like this
(they even, apparently, have a member that works for google!). Checkout
these threads -

http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/3092-2-15.htm
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/2422.htm


Jason
www.jasoncartwright.com


> -----Original Message-----
> After doing some research on some of the suggested articles
> and searching about myself, I'm not now so sure this is
> necessary. Doing a search on some authors on google comes up
> with some pages (although out of date :( ) that are on the
> site above. The full URL WITH the ?..etc was indexed. It also
> came up on like the 3rd page, decent results since I have not
> done any real optimization with the site.



From gfinnigan at talk21.com  Sun Aug 18 19:52:01 2002
From: gfinnigan at talk21.com (Gary Finnigan)
Date: Sun Aug 18 19:52:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] SQL Help Please
References: <01c205e0$d6b38e60$2fe7059a@rudy> <0b3b01c205eb$878be160$4300a8c0@client1>
Message-ID: <000901c24717$a4c9be60$b693fea9@btopenworld.com>

I am trying to run asp pages on my winxp pro machine. I usd to use PWS on
win 98. Is there a comparable platform for xp pro?
regards
Boris

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Olson" <joshua at waetech.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 3:01 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] SQL Help Please


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rudy" <r937 at interlog.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 8:44 PM
>
> > let's start at the rear of the bus and move forwards
> >
> >    COALESCE(intfield1, intfield2, 0) AS fk_id
> >
> > if both intfield1 and intfield2 are null, you get a 0, and then if you
try
> > to do a left outer join to table 2, i'm guessing you won't find any
rows,
> > so i'd say in this case, don't even other with the join
>
> Actually, I wanted the row even if it was 0, which is why I wrote it as an
> outer join in this manner.  :)  I just wanted the value from table2 to
come
> in as null.
>
> You've given some good food for thought, though my choice of COALESCE
> might've thrown you off a bit.  I was looking for a more generalized case
> where one value was calculated and the join had to happen on the value as
> well as return that value within the query.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> -joshua
>
>
>
> --
> For unsubscribe and other options, including
> the Tip Harvester and archive of thelist go to:
> http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt !




From r937 at interlog.com  Sun Aug 18 21:16:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sun Aug 18 21:16:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XP pro equivalent for PWS?  (was: SQL Help Please)
Message-ID: <01c24726$45224b80$cbe7059a@rudy>

hi boris/gary

i tend to jump all over posts with SQL in the subject line

this time i was disappointed   ;o(

please, start a new thread when you change the subject


> I am trying to run asp pages on my winxp pro machine.
> I usd to use PWS on win 98. Is there a comparable
> platform for xp pro?

no idea, sorry

i ran a search on google for  "XP pro equivalent for PWS?"

here's the first hit --

  Running IIS on Windows XP Home Edition?
  http://www.15seconds.com/issue/020118.htm


rudy
http://rudy.ca/



From r937 at interlog.com  Sun Aug 18 21:26:01 2002
From: r937 at interlog.com (rudy)
Date: Sun Aug 18 21:26:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] making friendly urls
Message-ID: <01c24727$a50107c0$cbe7059a@rudy>

> Plus, now, I have ONE article page that displays EVERY article.
> I don't want to end up static article pages, that defeats the purpose
> of a templated site driven by a DB.

tom, i agree completely

i have the same structure -- one article page for all articles

for example, http://rudy.ca/archive.cfm?archive=lookupinthesky

the archive page takes the url string, and pulls that article out of the
database

however, i have also designated the article page as my custom 404 page

now, the key to getting "search engine friendly urls" to work is that the
custom 404 page must know the file name of the requested file

so if someone requests http://rudy.ca/lookupinthesky.html, the archive page
gets called because that file doesn't exist!!  the archive page takes the
filename, does a lookup in the database, displays the article if it exists,
and if it doesn't, only then does the archive page issue the "oops" (404)
message

helps?

rudy



From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 18 21:35:01 2002
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Sun Aug 18 21:35:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XP's going round in circles
In-Reply-To: <007f01c246e9$64bbd1b0$07706ad5@darn>
Message-ID: <20020819023438.80015.qmail@web13501.mail.yahoo.com>

have you tried booting xp with a boot disk?

--- dn at dittodesign.co.uk wrote:
> I boot up and get as far as the option screen for safe mode,
> safe mode with networking etc.

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From jyee at vt.edu  Sun Aug 18 21:36:00 2002
From: jyee at vt.edu (Jackson Yee)
Date: Sun Aug 18 21:36:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache next error
Message-ID: <3D64039D@zathras>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Maynes" <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 17:52
Subject: RE: [thelist] Apache next error

> I created a new folder C:/apache and the PID file is created now when apache
is
> started so no problems there, the other problem has not been sorted out
> regarding not finding the fully qulified domain name?
>
> this is obviously a config file problem?

I'm taking a random guess at this problem, Andrew, but try changing your
virtual host directives to

NameVirtualHost *

<VirtualHost *>
    Port 80
    CustomLog "c:/apache/main_site_test.log"
combined
    ServerAdmin you at example.com
    DocumentRoot "c:/program files/apache group/apache/htdocs"
    ServerName localhost
</VirtualHost>

A fully qualified domain name means that you have 1st through 3rd level
domains named - something along the lines of foo.bar.com.  I don't know why
Apache wouldn't be accepting localhost under virtual hosting settings, but if
you continue having problems, create a fake domain name and insert it into the
ServerName directive such as

ServerName fakemachine.fakedomain12.com

I'm assuming that this machine is for testing only, so the actual ServerName
won't be relevant as it would be on a production website.  If this actually
was a production website that you're hosting off of this computer, then you
would probably have a domain name registered for it already.

Regards,
Jackson Yee
jyee at vt.edu
http://www.jacksonyee.com/



From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 18 21:43:01 2002
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Sun Aug 18 21:43:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP echoing...
In-Reply-To: <001f01c246ea$cbf1aca0$2532fc80@pravda>
Message-ID: <20020819024207.92926.qmail@web13504.mail.yahoo.com>

> Donald Noble wrote:
>
> 2) single quotes are much faster than double quotes and I have huge scripts
> which show a noticable difference.
> example:
> file1 >>print 'foo '.$bar.' baz';
> is faster than
> file1 >>print "foo $bar baz";

I participated in a thread a while ago where I argued your comment (as it said something of the
sort in an old zend article), but man was I wrong. Someone produced a time tester script testing
the different speeds of outputting text.

Double quotes with embedded variables were faster by up to 5 times as I recall. Then single quotes
with the concatenation operator (.), and then jumping in and out of php using <??>.

I am desperately looking for that thread in the forums...If I find it I will definitely send it to
the list...

Jon

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From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 18 21:44:01 2002
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Sun Aug 18 21:44:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] list of deprecated tags?
Message-ID: <20020819024326.34311.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm having no luck finding a good list of HTML deprecated tags for
XHTML, even on the w3c site..anyone?

Tom

=====
var me = tom.pixelmech.webDeveloper();

http://www.pixelmech.com/
http://www.maccaws.com/
[Making A Commercial Case for Adopting Web Standards]

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From jyee at vt.edu  Sun Aug 18 21:51:01 2002
From: jyee at vt.edu (Jackson Yee)
Date: Sun Aug 18 21:51:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] making friendly urls
Message-ID: <3D641CCA@zathras>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Dell'Aringa" <pixelmech at yahoo.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 18:45
Subject: RE: [thelist] making friendly urls

> After doing some research on some of the suggested articles and
> searching about myself, I'm not now so sure this is necessary. Doing
> a search on some authors on google comes up with some pages (although
> out of date :( ) that are on the site above. The full URL WITH the
> ?..etc was indexed. It also came up on like the 3rd page, decent
> results since I have not done any real optimization with the site.

Google will index *some* URLs with query strings, but not many, and you won't
have a good place in the rankings either.  Besides, the advantages of being
able to redo the internals of your site at will without having to worry about
bookmarks and links breaking is a wonderful benefit, as you can switch
scripting languages, database structures, file directory structures, and so
forth all without your visitors noticing any changes.

> It seems to me for what you have to go through to get such "friendly"
> urls isn't worth the trouble. Plus, now, I have ONE article page that
> displays EVERY article. I don't want to end up static article pages,
> that defeats the purpose of a templated site driven by a DB.

I don't know how you were planning to do your pages, Tom, but it really
doesn't take very much trouble at all.  For my site, I have the following
lines in a <Directory> section in httpd.conf for Apache,

RewriteEngine On
RewriteBase /

RewriteRule ^articles/([0-9]*)\.html$ articles.php?id=$1 [L]

and that's all that's needed to change any requests from the form

/articles/289263.html

to

/articles.php?id=289263

You don't actually have static article pages on the filesystem.  They only
appear static because of the mechanism which you are using to redirect the
original URL to the correct content.  I actually wrote an article detailing my
experiences with Apache and mod_rewrite if you want a quick read:

http://jacksonyee.dnsalias.com/articles/13.html

You'll quickly recognize the power and ease of rewriting URLs after you start
using it, and it'll soon become second nature.  On my new site which I'm
developing, *every* single page on the site is loaded from one single script
file which takes the URL and loads the appropiate content from a table within
a MySQL database.  It'll obviously take a bit more processing, but as I'm not
concerned about scability with this being a simple site, it'll allow me to map
addresses which are easily human-readable such as

/articles/mod_rewrite/page1.html

into the more cryptic

/index.php?PageType=articles&Title=mod_rewrite&Page=1

for easy maintainability and updates.

I'd suggest that you try rewriting URLs.  If it's not for you, that's fine,
but I think that you'll see that it's actually a really simple way of making
your site more accessible and more friendly to people.

Regards,
Jackson Yee
jyee at vt.edu
http://www.jacksonyee.com/



From davidu at everydns.net  Sun Aug 18 22:07:01 2002
From: davidu at everydns.net (David U.)
Date: Sun Aug 18 22:07:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP echoing...
References: <20020819024207.92926.qmail@web13504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <006001c2472d$6fc950c0$2532fc80@pravda>

jon steele wrote:
>> Donald Noble wrote:
>>
>> 2) single quotes are much faster than double quotes and I have huge
>> scripts which show a noticable difference.
>> example:
>> file1 >>print 'foo '.$bar.' baz';
>> is faster than
>> file1 >>print "foo $bar baz";
>
> I participated in a thread a while ago where I argued your comment
> (as it said something of the sort in an old zend article), but man
> was I wrong. Someone produced a time tester script testing the
> different speeds of outputting text.

Please do find it.  Hopefully we can see their script too.  Perhaps
different inputs cause different outcomes.  My test was informal simply
using a small timer class but I noticed marked results (afaik).  Then again,
I could have done a 100 things wrong in my tests or the other person could
have..

-davidu






From Gary at star-chaser.com  Sun Aug 18 22:33:01 2002
From: Gary at star-chaser.com (Gary Bland)
Date: Sun Aug 18 22:33:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] Apache next error
References: <3D64039D@zathras>
Message-ID: <3D6066E4.2010501@star-chaser.com>

Jackson Yee wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew Maynes" <andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk>
> To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 17:52
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Apache next error
>
>
> A fully qualified domain name means that you have 1st through 3rd level
> domains named - something along the lines of foo.bar.com.  I don't know why
> Apache wouldn't be accepting localhost under virtual hosting settings, but if
> you continue having problems, create a fake domain name and insert it into the
> ServerName directive such as
>
> ServerName fakemachine.fakedomain12.com
>
I think you said it was on win 98. Your fully qualified domain for
ServerName is 127.0.0.1

HTH
gary





--
Gary Bland
StarChaser Web Architecture
http://star-chaser.com
Building Tomorrow's World Today



From burhankhalid at members.evolt.org  Sun Aug 18 23:08:01 2002
From: burhankhalid at members.evolt.org (Burhan)
Date: Sun Aug 18 23:08:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] XP pro equivalent for PWS?  (was: SQL Help Please)
In-Reply-To: <01c24726$45224b80$cbe7059a@rudy>
References: <01c24726$45224b80$cbe7059a@rudy>
Message-ID: <7490479192.20020818205728@members.evolt.org>

Hello rudy,

Sunday, August 18, 2002, 7:15:21 PM, you wrote:

>> I am trying to run asp pages on my winxp pro machine. I usd to use
>> PWS on win 98. Is there a comparable platform for xp pro?

There is no equivalent in XP. The only thing I can think of is IIS
(which is available on the XP Pro CD). I don't know if it is available
in the Home Edition.

Try the Add/Remove Applications --> Windows Components section. Look
for Internet Information Services. You will need your XP CD.


--
*---------------*
| Burhan Khalid |
*---------------*---------------------------*
| Email : burhankhalid[at]members.evolt.org |
| Web   : members.evolt.org/burhankhalid    |
| ICQ   : 6016166                           |
| AIM   : digitz0819                        |
| MSN   : burhankh[at]hotmail.com           |
| Yahoo : burhan_khalid                     |
*-------------------------------------------*
There was a young fellow named Prynne
Whose prick was so short and so thin,
	His wife found she needed
	A Fuckoscope -- she did --
To see if he'd gotten it in.




From jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu  Sun Aug 18 23:37:01 2002
From: jswiders at cs.oberlin.edu (Jonathon Isaac Swiderski)
Date: Sun Aug 18 23:37:01 2002
Subject: [thelist] list of deprecated tags?
In-Reply-To: <20020819024326.34311.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0208190032580.18486-100000@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>

Yesterday, the cows mooved Tom Dell'Aringa to write:

> I'm having no luck finding a good list of HTML deprecated tags for
> XHTML, even on the w3c site..anyone?

The following are the W3C's comprehensive tables of elements and attributes
in the HTML-4 specification, respectively.  The fifth column in each table
marks deprecated tags.

http://www.w3.org/TR/html40/index/elements.html
http://www.w3.org/TR/html40/index/attributes.html

I'm sure someone could work up something with grep and awk or perl to get a
listing of just those elements and attributes which are deprecated.

--
Jonathon Isaac Swiderski \\ dangercat-20 at dangercat.net
cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders  \\  www.dangercat.net/?id=mt

Sarcasm is just one more service we offer.



From jjsteele22 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 18 23:52:00 2002
From: jjsteele22 at yahoo.com (jon steele)
Date: Sun Aug 18 23:52:00 2002
Subject: [thelist] PHP echoing...
In-Reply-To: <006001c2472d$6fc950c0$2532fc80@pravda>
Message-ID: <20020819045157.24371.qmail@web13507.mail.yahoo.com>

Couldn't find the thread but I tried my own script...if you care to try it out on your server..

My output:
0.0054210424423218
0.009253978729248
0.0049289464950562
0.011050939559937


<html>
<body>
<?

$var1 = "quick";
$var2 = "fox";
$var3 = "dog";
$lim = 1000;

echo '<!--';
$start0 = explode(" ",microtime());
$start1 = $start0[1]+$start0[0];
for($i=0;$i<$lim;$i++){
	echo "$var1";
}
$end0 = explode(" ",microtime());
$end1 = $end0[1]+$end0[0];
echo '-->';
echo ($end1-$start1).'<br>';



echo '<!--';
$start0 = explode(" ",microtime());
$start1 = $start0[1]+$start0[0];
for($i=0;$i<$lim;$i++){
	echo ''.$var1.'';
}
$end0 = explode(" ",microtime());
$end1 = $end0[1]+$end0[0];
echo '-->';
echo ($end1-$start1).'<br>';



echo '<!--';
$start0 = explode(" ",microtime());
$start1 = $start0[1]+$start0[0];
for($i=0;$i<$lim;$i++){
	echo $var1;
}
$end0 = explode(" ",microtime());
$end1 = $end0[1]+$end0[0];
echo '-->';
echo ($end1-$start1).'<br>';


echo '<!--';
$start0 = explode(" ",microtime());
$start1 = $start0[1]+$start0[0];
for($i=0;$i<$lim;$i++){
	?>
	<? echo $var1 ?>
	<?
}
$end0 = explode(" ",microtime());
$end1 = $end0[1]+$end0[0];
echo '-->';
echo ($end1-$start1);


?>
</body>
</html>

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