From evolt at muinar.com  Mon Nov  3 02:06:32 2003
From: evolt at muinar.com (muinar)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 09:06:32 +0100
Subject: [thelist] Page Size; Fixed Layout
In-Reply-To: <2c19c82bed17.2bed172c19c8@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20031103085754.00a1bec0@mail.muinar.com>

At 23:03 02.11.03, you wrote:
>I should have specified, I have been given a site that has a Fixed layout.
>
>Given this piece of valuable information, is it a good idea to design 
>pages at 1024?

Hi Paul

In this case I would definitely code for 800 and make it look good
at 1024 (left-aligned or centered).

Otherwise users at 800 won't see the whole page or would have to scroll
horizontally.

Unless more than 80 percent of your userbase is at 1024... which is
unlikely. Depending on your audience, it should be something between 30
and 60 percent.

Mike



From kilimajer at webglobe.sk  Mon Nov  3 02:55:04 2003
From: kilimajer at webglobe.sk (Marek Kilimajer)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 09:55:04 +0100
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
Message-ID: <3FA617E8.1080401@webglobe.sk>

Give the form the same id and name.

John Corry wrote:
> I am at wit's end.
> 
> I hardly ever work with JS, but am just trying to do something so simple
> it's funny:
> 
> I want to submit a form when a user clicks a link.
> 
> Why? So I can display the form submit mechanism outside the <form> tags.
> 
> I made a function to do the submission:
> <script language="javascript" type="text/javascript">
> 	function updateIt()
> 	{
> 		window.document.updateForm.submit()
> 		return true
> 	} // end function
> </script>
> 
> And I have a form:
> <form action="/admin/update_form.php" method="post" name="update"
> id="updateForm">
> 
> And I have a link:
> <a href="#" onClick="updateIt();">
> 
> And when I click the link, the mozilla javascript console tells me:
> Error: window.document.updateForm.submit is not a function
> Source File: http://nishiyama.localhost.com/admin/update_form.php#
> Line: 18
> 
> WTF!?
> Submit() is not a method of a form object?
> Window.document.updateForm is not a form object?
> 
> What is going on? I went through 10 stupid javascript tutorials and this is
> how ALL OF THEM referenced the form! Why won't it work for me? Yes, I have
> javascript on.
> 
> /me is so frustrated he can hardly stand it...
> 
> Thanks if you can help me see the stupidity I'm missing,
> 
> John Corry
> 
> 
> 


From jeff at jeffhowden.com  Mon Nov  3 02:59:11 2003
From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:59:11 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
In-Reply-To: <20031103042302.1973.32079@hm-mx1b.solinus.com>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLIEHALIAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: John Corry
>
> A form object's submit() method will not work if the
> form has an input named 'submit'.
>
> Change the name of the submit button and you've got it.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

<tip type="JavaScript" author=".jeff">

the submit() method is the lazy developer's way out of doing something the
right way.  never use it.  instead, consider an alternate means of
submitting the form, like say, including a submit button that *everyone* can
use.

</tip>

<tip type="JavaScript" author=".jeff">

beware of the submit() method.  it won't cause the onsubmit event handler to
fire.

</tip>

.jeff

------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist
Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/
Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/


From jeff at jeffhowden.com  Mon Nov  3 03:02:49 2003
From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 01:02:49 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
In-Reply-To: <20031103035314.1104.277@hm-mx1b.solinus.com>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLOEHALIAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>

john,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: John Corry
>
> Accessibility is not an issue in the long term... [...]
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

accessibility should *always* be an issue, especially with something that
can so easily be done in a more accessible fashion.  i'll agree that there
are times when budget, expediency, etc. that accessibility gets a lower
priority than usual, but i don't see how that's the case here.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> and even if it were, right now I'm just trying to make
> the form submit.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

submit buttons work great.

you mentioned that you want the submit somewhere else in the html and that
necessitates it being outside the <form></form> block.  maybe there's a way
around that that'll still leave the form usable to non-js users.

.jeff

------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist
Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/
Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/


From kris at midtempo.net  Mon Nov  3 03:34:09 2003
From: kris at midtempo.net (kris burford)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 09:34:09 +0000
Subject: [thelist] [php] preg_replace text links?
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20031103091915.00a5a098@mail.btinternet.com>

hi,

i'm trying to get my head around some regex in php which i've lifted (with 
only minor understanding) from "mastering regex expressions".

what i'm trying to do is scan user submitted text (parsed through 
htmlspecialchars) pick out any links and link 'em up.

the starting pattern (from the book) is at 
http://www.midtempo.net/regex.html but it just gives me "Warning: Delimiter 
must not be alphanumeric or backslash". i've tried countless additions of 
backslashes and googled for help, all to no avail...

has anyone done this before? if so, where am i going wrong?

tia

k




From jan at artmiks.nl  Mon Nov  3 03:53:42 2003
From: jan at artmiks.nl (jan guichelaar [artmiks])
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:53:42 +0100
Subject: [thelist] deleting php vars
References: 	<C8F323573C030A448F3E5A2B6FE2070B01AFA9BB@nemesis><002501c39ef2$d6285eb0$1001a8c0@janpc>
	<3FA17B23.5000100@teltest.com>
Message-ID: <01c301c3a1f0$5d596af0$1001a8c0@janpc>

unset ( $HTTP_POST_VARS['var_name']);

looks promising, but when i refresh the page, the vars are still there,
Still dont know how to prevent people to refresh the page and thus
executing the same php-code with the same vars twice.
:-(



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Bennett" <paul at teltest.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] deleting php vars


> jan guichelaar [artmiks] wrote:
> 
> >thanx, but this doesn't work with vars from a post/get method,
> >only with vars you set in the php-page itself
> >
> >  
> >
> ok, not 100% sure what you are trying to do, but have you tried:
> unset ( $HTTP_POST_VARS['var_name']);
> ?
> 
> This makes php 'forget' as it removes both the variable data and name 
> from script processing
> -------------------
> Paul Bennett
> http://www.clicksave.co.nz
> For your free report:
> "10 time-killing web development mistakes and how to avoid them"
> send an email to:
> bennettpr at getresponse.com
> 
> -- 
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
> 
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
> Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 
> 

From kverens at contactjuggling.org  Mon Nov  3 06:01:11 2003
From: kverens at contactjuggling.org (Kae Verens)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:01:11 +0000
Subject: [thelist] [php] preg_replace text links?
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20031103091915.00a5a098@mail.btinternet.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20031103091915.00a5a098@mail.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <3FA64387.4020805@contactjuggling.org>

kris burford wrote:

> hi,
>
> i'm trying to get my head around some regex in php which i've lifted 
> (with only minor understanding) from "mastering regex expressions".
>
> what i'm trying to do is scan user submitted text (parsed through 
> htmlspecialchars) pick out any links and link 'em up.
>
> the starting pattern (from the book) is at 
> http://www.midtempo.net/regex.html but it just gives me "Warning: 
> Delimiter must not be alphanumeric or backslash". i've tried countless 
> additions of backslashes and googled for help, all to no avail...
>
> has anyone done this before? if so, where am i going wrong?


I use something like this (excerpt):

$a=preg_replace("/(http:\/\/|www|[a-zA-Z0-9-]+\.|[a-zA-Z0-9\.-]+@)(([a-zA-Z0-9-][a-zA-Z0-9-]+\.)+[a-zA-Z0-9-\.\/\_\?\%\#\&\=\;\~\!\(\)]+)/","<a 
href=\"http://\\1\\2\">\\1\\2</a>",$a);

that extracts most links and creates HTML links. I use the following to 
allow more control:

 $a=preg_replace("/\[<a([^>]*>)[^<]*<\/a>\|(.*?)\]/" , "<a\\1\\2</a>" ,$a);

lets the user write a link as [http://contactjuggling.org/|contact 
juggling], and that then links the words "contact juggling" to 
http://contactjuggling.org/

Kae


From jon at laughing-buddha.net  Mon Nov  3 04:17:13 2003
From: jon at laughing-buddha.net (Jon Haworth)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:17:13 -0000
Subject: [thelist] deleting php vars
References: 	<C8F323573C030A448F3E5A2B6FE2070B01AFA9BB@nemesis><002501c39ef2$d6285eb0$1001a8c0@janpc><3FA17B23.5000100@teltest.com>
	<01c301c3a1f0$5d596af0$1001a8c0@janpc>
Message-ID: <008d01c3a1f3$a8bbca30$050a0a0a@eris>

Hi Jan,

> unset ( $HTTP_POST_VARS['var_name']);
>
> looks promising, but when i refresh the page, the vars are
> still there, Still dont know how to prevent people to refresh
> the page and thus executing the same php-code with the
> same vars twice.  :-(

How about including a hidden field in the original form with a unique ID of
some sort - use $_SERVER['UNIQUE_ID'] if it's available on your system, but
mktime() will do if it's not. If you log this ID somewhere when you
originally process the form, you can check any submitted data against your
log to see if it's already been processed.

HTH
Jon



From kris at midtempo.net  Mon Nov  3 04:42:25 2003
From: kris at midtempo.net (kris burford)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:42:25 +0000
Subject: [thelist] [php] preg_replace text links?
In-Reply-To: <3FA64387.4020805@contactjuggling.org>
References: <4.2.0.58.20031103091915.00a5a098@mail.btinternet.com>
 <4.2.0.58.20031103091915.00a5a098@mail.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20031103103230.00a94cb8@mail.btinternet.com>


>>what i'm trying to do is scan user submitted text (parsed through 
>>htmlspecialchars) pick out any links and link 'em up.
>
>$a=preg_replace("/(http:\/\/|www|[a-zA-Z0-9-]+\.|[a-zA-Z0-9\.-]+@)(([a-zA-Z 
>0-9-][a-zA-Z0-9-]+\.)+[a-zA-Z0-9-\.\/\_\?\%\#\&\=\;\~\!\(\)]+)/","<a 
>href=\"http://\\1\\2\">\\1\\2</a>",$a);
>
>that extracts most links and creates HTML links.

this is great, unless they include "http://" in their text (which then 
results in: <a href="http://http:// ...)

kris


From simon.perry at si-designs.co.uk  Mon Nov  3 05:04:32 2003
From: simon.perry at si-designs.co.uk (Simon Perry)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:04:32 -0000
Subject: [thelist] deleting php vars
References: 	<C8F323573C030A448F3E5A2B6FE2070B01AFA9BB@nemesis><002501c39ef2$d6285eb0$1001a8c0@janpc><3FA17B23.5000100@teltest.com>
	<01c301c3a1f0$5d596af0$1001a8c0@janpc>
Message-ID: <009f01c3a1fa$429c95c0$3100a8c0@xppro>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jan guichelaar [artmiks]"
> unset ( $HTTP_POST_VARS['var_name']);
>
> looks promising, but when i refresh the page, the vars are still there,
> Still dont know how to prevent people to refresh the page and thus
> executing the same php-code with the same vars twice.
> :-(
Jan,

The problem you are facing is client side not server, the clients browsers
are the ones who are remembering the post or get data. When you hit refresh
in your browser it sends the last request it did again. So if your request
was post: http://your.sever/page.php?user=fred and you add fred to your user
list then unset ( $HTTP_POST_VARS['user']); the server has deleted the user
value but not the client, if you refresh the client it will send post:
http://your.sever/page.php?user=fred again.

You have two choices:

1. Validate the data before it is entered into the data source to check for
duplicates, not bad practice anyway!

2. Force the browsers behaviour (this is the solution I sent to you before)
by sending headers back to the browser that the page content has changed and
that it should load a "new" location. This approach is limited by your page
flow, to explain further if you are doing something like this:

form-page.php > form-process.php

then you will not be able to control the clients retaining the post data. To
be successful you need to write one page that handles the form and data, see
the sudo code below.

one-page.php
if(no post data exists){show form}
if(post data exists){
add to data source
unset ( $HTTP_POST_VARS['user']);
header("Status:  205 Reset Content");
//reload the page without the form data
header("Location: one-page.php");
}

Now if the client hits refresh the browser will send the last request it
had, the one we told it to request by using header("Location:
one-page.php"); that would be get: http://your.sever/one-page.php .

Well, I hope that is clearer than mud for you...

Simon


From dunstan at 1976design.com  Mon Nov  3 05:19:03 2003
From: dunstan at 1976design.com (Dunstan Orchard)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:19:03 +0000
Subject: [thelist] Re: [php] preg_replace text links?
In-Reply-To: <200311031047.hA3AlGM12012@ns.graphitedesign.net>
References: <200311031047.hA3AlGM12012@ns.graphitedesign.net>
Message-ID: <20031103111903.M5313@1976design.com>

Hi Kris,

I use this code that Kelly gave to me:

function url_to_link($string)
	{
	// link URLs
	$string =
eregi_replace("(([[:alnum:]]+://)|www\.)([^[:space:]]*)([[:alnum:]#?/&=])", "<a
href=\"\\1\\3\\4\" title=\"Go to \\1\\3\\4\">\\1\\3\\4</a>", $string);

	// fix lazy URLs
	$string = eregi_replace("href=\"www","href=\"http://www", $string);

	// link mailtos
	$string = eregi_replace("(([a-z0-9_]|\\-|\\.)+@([^[:space:]]*)([[:alnum:]-]))",
 "<a href=\"mailto:\\1\" title=\"E-mail \\1\">\\1</a>", $string);

	// truncates long urls that can cause display problems
	$string =
preg_replace("/>(([[:alnum:]]+:\/\/)|www\.)([^[:space:]]{30,40})([^[:space:]]*)([^[:space:]]{10,20})([[:alnum:]#?\/&=])</",
 ">\\1\\3...\\5\\6<", $string);

	$string = stripslashes($string);
	return $string;
	}

I then altered it a bit so that I can print the person's name and link that to
the url they submitted (for my blog):

function url_to_link_poster($string, $name)
	{
	// link URLs
	$string =
eregi_replace("(([[:alnum:]]+://)|www\.)([^[:space:]]*)([[:alnum:]#?/&=])", "<a
href=\"\\1\\3\\4\" title=\"Go to \\1\\3\\4\">$name</a>", $string);

	// fix lazy URLs
	$string = eregi_replace("href=\"www","href=\"http://www", $string);

	$string = stripslashes($string);
	return $string;
	}

It's worked out perfectly for me for a while now.

HTH - Dunstan

---------------------------
Dorset, England
http://www.1976design.com/
http://www.1976design.com/blog/

From hershelr at netvision.net.il  Mon Nov  3 05:37:54 2003
From: hershelr at netvision.net.il (Hershel Robinson)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 06:37:54 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
In-Reply-To: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLOEHALIAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>
Message-ID: <001401c3a1fe$ec723a60$0300000a@hershel2000>

> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > From: John Corry
> >
> > Accessibility is not an issue in the long term... [...]
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>
> accessibility should *always* be an issue, especially with
> something that
> can so easily be done in a more accessible fashion.  i'll
> agree that there
> are times when budget, expediency, etc. that accessibility
> gets a lower
> priority than usual, but i don't see how that's the case here.

Just to play devil's advocate, what about a case where one is developing for
an intranet or other NON-cross-browser site where all the users are already
required to have JS enabled to use the site. In such a situation, why not
use a link to submit the form if the link looks better on the page? In
particular, if the client likes a link and not a button, why not?

Again, I am speaking in a case where JS and browser-choice are NOT left up
to the visitors.

Hershel


From kverens at contactjuggling.org  Mon Nov  3 07:58:43 2003
From: kverens at contactjuggling.org (Kae Verens)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:58:43 +0000
Subject: [thelist] [php] preg_replace text links?
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20031103103230.00a94cb8@mail.btinternet.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20031103091915.00a5a098@mail.btinternet.com>
	<4.2.0.58.20031103091915.00a5a098@mail.btinternet.com>
	<4.2.0.58.20031103103230.00a94cb8@mail.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <3FA65F13.3040405@contactjuggling.org>

kris burford wrote:

>>
>> $a=preg_replace("/(http:\/\/|www|[a-zA-Z0-9-]+\.|[a-zA-Z0-9\.-]+@)(([a-zA-Z 
>> 0-9-][a-zA-Z0-9-]+\.)+[a-zA-Z0-9-\.\/\_\?\%\#\&\=\;\~\!\(\)]+)/","<a 
>> href=\"http://\\1\\2\">\\1\\2</a>",$a);
>>
>> that extracts most links and creates HTML links.
>
>
> this is great, unless they include "http://" in their text (which then 
> results in: <a href="http://http:// ...)

true. I had a few post-filters that further refined it - for emails, and 
such, for example.

there are a load of regexps available for specific purposes (http:// 
urls, etc). It is difficult to write a single regexp that handles all 
URI formats, though, so I opt to use a general filter followed by some 
post-filters. An example is to replace http:\/\/http:\/\/ with just 
http:\/\/, to replace http:\/\/(.*@[^\/]*)$ with mailto:\1, etc

Kae


From jan at artmiks.nl  Mon Nov  3 06:55:27 2003
From: jan at artmiks.nl (jan guichelaar [artmiks])
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:55:27 +0100
Subject: [thelist] deleting php vars
References: 	<C8F323573C030A448F3E5A2B6FE2070B01AFA9BB@nemesis><002501c39ef2$d6285eb0$1001a8c0@janpc><3FA17B23.5000100@teltest.com><01c301c3a1f0$5d596af0$1001a8c0@janpc>
	<009f01c3a1fa$429c95c0$3100a8c0@xppro>
Message-ID: <01a801c3a209$c1673e00$1001a8c0@janpc>

thanx simon
You hit the problem right on the head
and its dead now, so thanx



jan at artmiks.nl

====================
Artmiks [image builders]
http://www.artmiks.nl
====================
recent projects
http://www.kluun.nl
http://www.marryyourpet.com
http://www.wereldpost.nl
http://www.margeting.nl
====================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Perry" <simon.perry at si-designs.co.uk>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] deleting php vars


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jan guichelaar [artmiks]"
> > unset ( $HTTP_POST_VARS['var_name']);
> >
> > looks promising, but when i refresh the page, the vars are still there,
> > Still dont know how to prevent people to refresh the page and thus
> > executing the same php-code with the same vars twice.
> > :-(
> Jan,
>
> The problem you are facing is client side not server, the clients browsers
> are the ones who are remembering the post or get data. When you hit
refresh
> in your browser it sends the last request it did again. So if your request
> was post: http://your.sever/page.php?user=fred and you add fred to your
user
> list then unset ( $HTTP_POST_VARS['user']); the server has deleted the
user
> value but not the client, if you refresh the client it will send post:
> http://your.sever/page.php?user=fred again.
>
> You have two choices:
>
> 1. Validate the data before it is entered into the data source to check
for
> duplicates, not bad practice anyway!
>
> 2. Force the browsers behaviour (this is the solution I sent to you
before)
> by sending headers back to the browser that the page content has changed
and
> that it should load a "new" location. This approach is limited by your
page
> flow, to explain further if you are doing something like this:
>
> form-page.php > form-process.php
>
> then you will not be able to control the clients retaining the post data.
To
> be successful you need to write one page that handles the form and data,
see
> the sudo code below.
>
> one-page.php
> if(no post data exists){show form}
> if(post data exists){
> add to data source
> unset ( $HTTP_POST_VARS['user']);
> header("Status:  205 Reset Content");
> //reload the page without the form data
> header("Location: one-page.php");
> }
>
> Now if the client hits refresh the browser will send the last request it
> had, the one we told it to request by using header("Location:
> one-page.php"); that would be get: http://your.sever/one-page.php .
>
> Well, I hope that is clearer than mud for you...
>
> Simon
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>


From stevejenkins444 at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  3 07:03:26 2003
From: stevejenkins444 at hotmail.com (Steve Jenkins)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:03:26 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Tomcat versus Apache _and_ Tomcat
Message-ID: <Sea1-DAV36rYILoygXL00010294@hotmail.com>

Hi

Anyone know why one should deploy a live production server with Apache and Tomcat as opposed to with just Tomcat?
Any guidance would be most welcome.

Cheers Steve.



From psm2713 at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  3 07:41:50 2003
From: psm2713 at hotmail.com (Ken Moore)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 06:41:50 -0700
Subject: [thelist] Marketer/Marketing Advice
Message-ID: <BAY9-F47s9lwbniCVSJ00099ffb@hotmail.com>

Hi all,

I need some advice marketing advice. I have developed some website-based 
services for insurance agents. The agents that have the services think that 
they are great and that they will very much help the bottom line.

The problem is that I cannot sell foot warmers to Eskimos. I need someone to 
do the marketing. There is a very great income potential for the right 
company or person.

Where do I go to look for someone or some company that can do that?

You can answer either on or off of the list at psm2713 at hotmail.com

TIA,

Ken

_________________________________________________________________
Enjoy MSN 8 patented spam control and more with MSN 8 Dial-up Internet 
Service.  Try it FREE for one month!   http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup


From dan at danromanchik.com  Mon Nov  3 09:13:41 2003
From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:13:41 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Marketer/Marketing Advice
References: <BAY9-F47s9lwbniCVSJ00099ffb@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <004601c3a21d$11384ec0$6401a8c0@D9J77B01>

Finding salespeople is hard. I've tried find someone to do some selling for
me as well, with little success. I've posted to mailing lists, advertised on
a local jobs board, and tried spreading the word through my "network." I got
a few nibbles, but no one bit.

The problem is the level of risk involved. What you have to do is sell
(there's that four-letter word again) someone that the potential you are
offering is worth the risk they'll have to take. Like I say, I haven't been
able to do that yet, but you may have something that has more potential than
what I was trying to sell.

Let us know how it goes...

Dan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Romanchik - Web Developer
dan at danromanchik.com, 734-930-6564


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Moore" <psm2713 at hotmail.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:41 AM
Subject: [thelist] Marketer/Marketing Advice


> Hi all,
>
> I need some advice marketing advice. I have developed some website-based
> services for insurance agents. The agents that have the services think
that
> they are great and that they will very much help the bottom line.
>
> The problem is that I cannot sell foot warmers to Eskimos. I need someone
to
> do the marketing. There is a very great income potential for the right
> company or person.
>
> Where do I go to look for someone or some company that can do that?
>
> You can answer either on or off of the list at psm2713 at hotmail.com
>
> TIA,
>
> Ken
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Enjoy MSN 8 patented spam control and more with MSN 8 Dial-up Internet
> Service.  Try it FREE for one month!
http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>



From Tab.Alleman at MetroGuide.com  Mon Nov  3 09:50:44 2003
From: Tab.Alleman at MetroGuide.com (Tab Alleman)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:50:44 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Native website authentication - IIS 5
Message-ID: <C263956D43E36B4E966EDE6DE7C10C972AF6AF@Yosemite.MetroGuide.RealMetros.RealMetros.com>

Wow, thanks Ken..guess I don't need a tutorial after all.  

Ken Schaefer wrote:
(everything I needed to know)

From headlemur at lemurzone.com  Mon Nov  3 10:02:31 2003
From: headlemur at lemurzone.com (the head lemur)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:02:31 -0700
Subject: [thelist] Marketer/Marketing Advice
References: <BAY9-F47s9lwbniCVSJ00099ffb@hotmail.com>
	<004601c3a21d$11384ec0$6401a8c0@D9J77B01>
Message-ID: <001b01c3a223$e58ec540$0200a8c0@ph.cox.net>


> > The problem is that I cannot sell foot warmers to Eskimos.

Congratulations! There are very few designers who have any sort of sales
experience, or want to develop it. :)

In order of preference:

Find your local agent association,(there is one, ya may just have to dig it
out) and give a demo.

 Some of the folks who call on agents are representitives of Bodyshops,
glass companies, Boardup services, remodelers, rental car agencies, flood
and water damage repair specialists, and anybody who does work for insurance
companies post claim.

The tough part is finding a sales representitive who understands the web,
your product and can use computers.

#1 sales tip

sell the office manager.
she is the only person in the organization who Knows where everything is.
she is the person most likely to end up using your service.

the head lemur
News: http://www.lemurzone.com/news/
Interviews: http://www.lemurzone.com/pixelview/
blog: http://theheadlemur.typepad.com/
Community: http://www.evolt.org









From jeff at jeffhowden.com  Mon Nov  3 10:24:23 2003
From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 08:24:23 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
In-Reply-To: <001401c3a1fe$ec723a60$0300000a@hershel2000>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLCEIMLIAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>

hershel,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Hershel Robinson
>
> > accessibility should *always* be an issue, especially
> > with something that can so easily be done in a more
> > accessible fashion.  i'll agree that there are times
> > when budget, expediency, etc. that accessibility gets
> > a lower priority than usual, but i don't see how
> > that's the case here.
>
> Just to play devil's advocate, what about a case where
> one is developing for an intranet or other
> NON-cross-browser site where all the users are already
> required to have JS enabled to use the site. In such a
> situation, why not use a link to submit the form if the
> link looks better on the page? In particular, if the
> client likes a link and not a button, why not?
>
> Again, I am speaking in a case where JS and
> browser-choice are NOT left up to the visitors.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

there are lots of reasons.

1) some browsers break forms that don't have an actual
   submit button meaning you can't use the enter key to
   submit the form.  some claim this as a good thing,
   but it's not.  it's a disruption of expected
   behavior for those users accustomed to it.
2) look all around you at data collection forms.  in
   practically all the cases a button is used to submit
   the data, not a link.  using a link is a departure
   from normal ui conventions and will be nothing but
   a confusion for your users.
3) can you really mandate that non-sighted users use
   ie as well?  or, are you going to have to succumb to
   their need to use a screenreader (which may or may
   not be based on the ie web browser control)?
4) what do you do if the company gets a wild hair up
   their bum and changes their browser standard
   internally?

don't get me wrong, the work i do requires win/ie6 to use the administrative
tools.  we do this because this combination covers about 98% of our existing
clients.  it greatly reduces development time so the client gets more for
their money.  it also means we can reuse alot of stuff written for other
projects that's already been tested, saving the client even *more* money.
if they want us to support a different browser or os, the rate for
administrative tools goes up *tremendously*.

my point in saying that accessibility should always be a concern is that you
never know when a wrench is going to get thrown into the works.  better to
consider those things ahead of time.

.jeff

------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist
Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/
Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/


From mail at kentrygiel.com  Mon Nov  3 10:26:56 2003
From: mail at kentrygiel.com (kent)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 08:26:56 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Language Detection vrs. Splash Screen
Message-ID: <20031103162656.2922.qmail@smtp1.wedohosting.com>

Hopefully I'm not repeating a thread here but surprisingly I couldn't find 
anything comprehensive about this issue: Languages. 

A client wants to serve up both an English and French version of a website. 
We do not want to default to English with the thinking that this might 
"offend" our French audience, for lack of a better word. So we have two 
options: 

1. A splash page with language choice/selection.
2. Utilize a script to detect the default langauge set on the user's 
browser. 

So, I am wondering how effective it is to rely on detection of the language 
setting of the user's browser. I have noticed that none of the big websites 
(IBM nor al.) give me a French page when I change the language option in my 
browser. Does anyone know why this language detection is not utilized more 
often? 

As for a splash page, I tend to dislike adding this extra step for entering 
a site. But in order to deal with this language issue, is this the 
recommended course of action? I need the site to be search engine- friendly, 
which is another reason why I want to avoid a splash page. 

If anyone would reply to directly to me, I can post a summary. 

Thanks, 

Kent

From marcan at home.se  Mon Nov  3 10:35:54 2003
From: marcan at home.se (Marcus Andersson)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:35:54 +0100
Subject: [thelist] png in IE
Message-ID: <000f01c3a228$8d4f4580$03a8a8c0@marcusnb>

Hi
 
I have these icons in png format and want to make use of them in IE. The
icons have transparent backgrounds that works nicely in
Mozilla/Photoshop. When I use them in IE I get this ugly grey background
instead of the transparent one. 
 
Should I do anything special to make it work or should I consider to
convert the icons to gif?
 
/Marcus

From hershelr at netvision.net.il  Mon Nov  3 10:43:42 2003
From: hershelr at netvision.net.il (Hershel Robinson)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:43:42 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Marketer/Marketing Advice
In-Reply-To: <001b01c3a223$e58ec540$0200a8c0@ph.cox.net>
Message-ID: <006b01c3a229$a4adac70$0300000a@hershel2000>

I have no advice about marketing, sorry.

Interestingly enough, however, I have a little story to share. I registered
a domain name a few days ago and put up on the site an "Under
Construction..." page.

Today, someone just called me on the phone and asked me what are my plans
for that site. I said I was uncertain and he proceeded to tell me that he's
from a web design and development company...

I told him I don't need a web designer and that was that.

Now that's what I call direct marketing!

<tip type="CSS Design" author="Hershel Robinson">
Getting lost or confused with your DIVs and SPANs and whatnot on a CSS
layout page? Try putting in different color 1 pixel solid borders to various
DIVs and SPANs and that can clarify what's happening.
</tip>

Hershel


From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Nov  3 10:52:58 2003
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:52:58 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
In-Reply-To: <001401c3a1fe$ec723a60$0300000a@hershel2000>
References: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLOEHALIAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.4.1260241270.26438.thelist@lists.evolt.org>

> From: Hershel Robinson <hershelr at netvision.net.il>
> 
> Just to play devil's advocate, what about a case where one is
> developing for an intranet or other NON-cross-browser site where all
> the users are already required to have JS enabled to use the site. In
> such a situation, why not use a link to submit the form if the link
> looks better on the page? In particular, if the client likes a link
> and not a button, why not?

if your sole concern is the look of the button, why use JS to tackle 
it when it could be done more quickly and with less hassle (and 
code) with CSS?  your scenario presents a specific 
browser/platform combo, so this could easily satisfy it if that 
combo is CSS-friendly...

i have done this in the past -- styled a button to look like a 
hyperlink -- at the client's request in a closed intranet... i found it 
was faster, easier, and offered more flexibility to use CSS...


--
my latest book project:
  Web Graphics for Non-Designers
  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1590591712/evoltorg02-20
  ISBN: 1590591712

From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Nov  3 10:56:23 2003
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:56:23 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Page Size
In-Reply-To: <20031102212440.GA6830%david@dorward.me.uk>
References: <2bc62c2c0f09.2c0f092bc62c@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.5.1260241270.26438.thelist@lists.evolt.org>

> From: David Dorward <evolt at david.us-lot.org>
> 
> > I am curious as to the general consensus on designing sites for
> > 1024x768 resolution monitors.  Is this a good practice or should I
> > avoid designing a site for monitor sizes larger than 800x600.
> 
> http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?AnySizeDesign

this is giving me an error, so how about an article at evolt.org:
	http://evolt.org/liquid_design



--
my latest book project:
  Web Graphics for Non-Designers
  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1590591712/evoltorg02-20
  ISBN: 1590591712

From roselli at earthlink.net  Mon Nov  3 11:01:41 2003
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:01:41 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Page Size; Fixed Layout
In-Reply-To: <20031102220634.GA7192%david@dorward.me.uk>
References: <2c19c82bed17.2bed172c19c8@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.6.1260241270.26438.thelist@lists.evolt.org>

> From: David Dorward <david at dorward.me.uk>
[...]
> > Given this piece of valuable information, is it a good idea to
> > design pages at 1024?
> 
> No. A significant proportion of users still use 800x600, and even
> those on higher don't always run their browser windows fullscreen.

and there's something to be said for actually finding out what your 
audience uses:
	http://evolt.org/Screen_Stats_1

part two of that article, while 3+ years old, also talks about findings 
from the code in part 1...

and i second the notion that targetting 1024 as your baseline is 
probably a bad idea... especially given the full-screen concept...


--
my latest book project:
  Web Graphics for Non-Designers
  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1590591712/evoltorg02-20
  ISBN: 1590591712

From developer at lazor.net  Mon Nov  3 11:07:39 2003
From: developer at lazor.net (developer at lazor.net)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:07:39 -0500
Subject: [thelist] mshtml, absolute and relative links
Message-ID: <200311031207390548.04E82917@mail.lazor.net>

I've been working on a cross-browser (ie/mozilla) web based wysiwyg for a little while now and have also reviewed at least 10 other ones that are out there.  My problem is that I need it to use relative links (/mysite/subdir/somepage.html) instead of the absolute links it generates because we use multiple servers in our environment and want the code it generates to be portable.  It seems like it's internal to IE because even if I pass a relative URL for an image or a link, it converts it to an absolute one.  I've done quite a bit of googling on this and see mentions of people accomplishing this but can find no references as to how.  Has anyone here been able to do this?  Any help would be much appreciated.  Thanks.

Mike



From norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com  Mon Nov  3 11:11:08 2003
From: norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com (Norman Bunn)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:11:08 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Language Detection vrs. Splash Screen
References: <20031103162656.2922.qmail@smtp1.wedohosting.com>
Message-ID: <04e901c3a22d$79234b10$ef49fea9@DELL4500>

First I recommend that you use a cookie to hold a person's language
preference and use that to drive which presentation they receive.  Second, I
think you should have a link on each page that allows the user to change
preferences as he/she desires, resetting the cookie as  needed.  Third, if
you use the  language detect option, I would use that as a backup to the
cookie (cookie has priority) and I would use it to prompt a user in that
language and English that an alternate language is available.  Finally, I
would avoid the splash page altogether.  Since most web sites are in
English, it should not offend someone if it starts that way, and if it
starts in French, I would not be offended either; I'd just look for the
"English" option button.

Norman Bunn
www.CraftedSolutions.com
803-405-1008

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "kent" <mail at kentrygiel.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:26 AM
Subject: [thelist] Language Detection vrs. Splash Screen


> Hopefully I'm not repeating a thread here but surprisingly I couldn't find
> anything comprehensive about this issue: Languages.
>
> A client wants to serve up both an English and French version of a
website.
> We do not want to default to English with the thinking that this might
> "offend" our French audience, for lack of a better word. So we have two
> options:
>
> 1. A splash page with language choice/selection.
> 2. Utilize a script to detect the default langauge set on the user's
> browser.
>
> So, I am wondering how effective it is to rely on detection of the
language
> setting of the user's browser. I have noticed that none of the big
websites
> (IBM nor al.) give me a French page when I change the language option in
my
> browser. Does anyone know why this language detection is not utilized more
> often?
>
> As for a splash page, I tend to dislike adding this extra step for
entering
> a site. But in order to deal with this language issue, is this the
> recommended course of action? I need the site to be search engine-
friendly,
> which is another reason why I want to avoid a splash page.
>
> If anyone would reply to directly to me, I can post a summary.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kent
> -- 
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>



From kris at midtempo.net  Mon Nov  3 11:11:15 2003
From: kris at midtempo.net (kris burford)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:11:15 +0000
Subject: [thelist] png in IE
In-Reply-To: <000f01c3a228$8d4f4580$03a8a8c0@marcusnb>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20031103170824.00a99d88@mail.btinternet.com>


>I have these icons in png format and want to make use of them in IE.

hi marcus,

alistapart has some stuff to say about this: 
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/pngopacity/

hth

kris




From simon.perry at si-designs.co.uk  Mon Nov  3 11:14:57 2003
From: simon.perry at si-designs.co.uk (Simon Perry)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:14:57 -0000
Subject: [thelist] png in IE
References: <000f01c3a228$8d4f4580$03a8a8c0@marcusnb>
Message-ID: <002f01c3a22e$019149c0$3100a8c0@xppro>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marcus Andersson"
> Hi
>
> I have these icons in png format and want to make use of them in IE. The
> icons have transparent backgrounds that works nicely in
> Mozilla/Photoshop. When I use them in IE I get this ugly grey background
> instead of the transparent one.
>
> Should I do anything special to make it work or should I consider to
> convert the icons to gif?

IE does not properly support png files, if you want transparency then you
will have to use gifs.

Simon


From liorean at f2o.org  Mon Nov  3 11:15:57 2003
From: liorean at f2o.org (liorean)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:15:57 +0100
Subject: [thelist] png in IE
In-Reply-To: <000f01c3a228$8d4f4580$03a8a8c0@marcusnb>
References: <000f01c3a228$8d4f4580$03a8a8c0@marcusnb>
Message-ID: <3FA68D4D.8000508@f2o.org>

Marcus Andersson wrote:
> I have these icons in png format and want to make use of them in IE. The
> icons have transparent backgrounds that works nicely in
> Mozilla/Photoshop. When I use them in IE I get this ugly grey background
> instead of the transparent one. 
>  
> Should I do anything special to make it work or should I consider to
> convert the icons to gif?

There's a number of things you could do. First of all, do you use alpha 
channels or pure on/off transparency? IE handles 8bit PNGs as were they 
gifs, in other words if you make your PNGs 8bit, you will get full 
transparency for all alpha channels, but a smaller size than the 
equivalent gif. As for getting alpha channels to work, you can do that 
to. Have a look at 
<http://webfx.eae.net/dhtml/pngbehavior/pngbehavior.html> for making 
high-color 16-48bit to work. It requires both stylesheets and Javascript 
to work. (You can combine it with a conditional comments for a valid way 
of doing it.)

-- 
liorean <mailto:liorean at user.bip.net>

ViewStyles, ViewScripts, ToggleStyles and GraphicsInfo bookmarklets and 
Theme Switcher, Cookies Handler scripts:
<http://liorean.web-graphics.com/>


From contact at stewartandcompany.net  Mon Nov  3 11:18:02 2003
From: contact at stewartandcompany.net (Stewart & Company)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:18:02 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Page Size
In-Reply-To: <1E3D18AA-0D79-11D8-AB67-003065A5B276@brightstorm.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000001c3a22e$714e7b70$2fa5aec7@Will>


If you have to design the website at a fixed width, stay well under 800
px.  I usually do 740 px max.

Here are some links to help:

http://www.evolt.org/article/ds/17/2295/ 
http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/99/41/index3a.html 

HTH,
Will

On 2 Nov 2003, at 20:49, live4bacon at optonline.net wrote:

> I am curious as to the general consensus on designing sites for 
> 1024x768 resolution monitors.  Is this a good practice or should I 
> avoid designing a site for monitor sizes larger than 800x600.



From hershelr at netvision.net.il  Mon Nov  3 11:26:53 2003
From: hershelr at netvision.net.il (Hershel Robinson)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:26:53 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
In-Reply-To: <0HNS00FWUDE1DN@mxin3.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <006f01c3a22f$ad173dd0$0300000a@hershel2000>

> if your sole concern is the look of the button, why use JS to tackle
> it when it could be done more quickly and with less hassle (and
> code) with CSS?  your scenario presents a specific
> browser/platform combo, so this could easily satisfy it if that
> combo is CSS-friendly...
>
> i have done this in the past -- styled a button to look like a
> hyperlink -- at the client's request in a closed intranet...
> i found it
> was faster, easier, and offered more flexibility to use CSS...

Faster and easier? But then I would have to write JS to create a rollover
effect. :)

>From .jeff:

> 1) some browsers break forms that don't have an actual
>    submit button meaning you can't use the enter key to
>    submit the form.  some claim this as a good thing,
>    but it's not.  it's a disruption of expected
>    behavior for those users accustomed to it.

But I wrote about a NON-cross browser site, so this is not a problem if the
ONE browser allows the button. (furthermore you could also write JS to
handle this)

> 2) look all around you at data collection forms.  in
>    practically all the cases a button is used to submit
>    the data, not a link.  using a link is a departure
>    from normal ui conventions and will be nothing but
>    a confusion for your users.

I disagree. Many sites use an image as a submit 'button' (especially for
searches) and for the casual user, that looks more like a link than a
button.

> 3) can you really mandate that non-sighted users use
>    ie as well?  or, are you going to have to succumb to
>    their need to use a screenreader (which may or may
>    not be based on the ie web browser control)?

Again, I'm talking about a NON-cross browser site. If the site only supports
one browser, then YES all users would have to use THAT browser. :)

> 4) what do you do if the company gets a wild hair up
>    their bum and changes their browser standard
>    internally?

Now you have come to your singular interesting point. If that were to
happen, then I would just explain to them (as they already know) that it
will take me X days to deal with converting their site to a new browser. :)

Hershel


From Tab.Alleman at MetroGuide.com  Mon Nov  3 11:31:30 2003
From: Tab.Alleman at MetroGuide.com (Tab Alleman)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:31:30 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
Message-ID: <C263956D43E36B4E966EDE6DE7C10C972AF6B0@Yosemite.MetroGuide.RealMetros.RealMetros.com>

Sometimes you have to use a link because you need to dynamically
generate it.

aardvark wrote:
>> From: Hershel Robinson <hershelr at netvision.net.il>
>> 
>> Just to play devil's advocate, what about a case where one is
>> developing for an intranet or other NON-cross-browser site where all
>> the users are already required to have JS enabled to use the site. In
>> such a situation, why not use a link to submit the form if the link
>> looks better on the page? In particular, if the client likes a link
>> and not a button, why not?
> 
> if your sole concern is the look of the button, why use JS to tackle
> it when it could be done more quickly and with less hassle (and
> code) with CSS?  your scenario presents a specific
> browser/platform combo, so this could easily satisfy it if that
> combo is CSS-friendly...
> 
> i have done this in the past -- styled a button to look like a
> hyperlink -- at the client's request in a closed intranet... i found
> it was faster, easier, and offered more flexibility to use CSS...
> 
> 
> --
> my latest book project:
>   Web Graphics for Non-Designers
>   http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1590591712/evoltorg02-20
>   ISBN: 1590591712


From paul at teltest.com  Mon Nov  3 11:41:20 2003
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:41:20 +1300
Subject: [thelist] deleting php vars
In-Reply-To: <01c301c3a1f0$5d596af0$1001a8c0@janpc>
References: 	<C8F323573C030A448F3E5A2B6FE2070B01AFA9BB@nemesis><002501c39ef2$d6285eb0$1001a8c0@janpc>
	<3FA17B23.5000100@teltest.com> <01c301c3a1f0$5d596af0$1001a8c0@janpc>
Message-ID: <3FA69340.5080905@teltest.com>

jan guichelaar [artmiks] wrote:

>unset ( $HTTP_POST_VARS['var_name']);
>
>looks promising, but when i refresh the page, the vars are still there,
>Still dont know how to prevent people to refresh the page and thus
>executing the same php-code with the same vars twice.
>:-(
>  
>

oh, *that* is what you are trying to do. You could try setting a cookie 
when the page runs - something like 'run'=1, then if they refresh you 
can check for the cookie at the beginning of your script and if it 
exists, don't run the code. This of course will only work with JS enabled.

Other than that you could enter the users session id (you can append 
these to the url if you want to get all the non-js browsers) in a db 
table when the code is run and then at the beginning of your script 
check if the id already has an entry in the table. If it does you now 
not to run the code.

Ah, the joys of building applications for a stateless protocol.....
:)

-- 
 ------------------------------
	Paul Bennett						
	Internet Developer				
	Teltest Electronic Design		
 ------------------------------			
Email: paul at teltest.com				
Phone: 64 4 237 4557					
Web: http://www.teltest.com		
Wap: http://wap.teltest.com			



From cs1spw at bath.ac.uk  Mon Nov  3 11:53:47 2003
From: cs1spw at bath.ac.uk (Simon Willison)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:53:47 -0600
Subject: [thelist] [php] preg_replace text links?
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20031103091915.00a5a098@mail.btinternet.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20031103091915.00a5a098@mail.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <3FA6962B.30507@bath.ac.uk>

kris burford wrote:
> i'm trying to get my head around some regex in php which i've lifted 
> (with only minor understanding) from "mastering regex expressions".
> 
> what i'm trying to do is scan user submitted text (parsed through 
> htmlspecialchars) pick out any links and link 'em up.

One solution is simply to not use regular expressions to solve this 
particular problem. I wrote up a blog entry on this technique (with 
sample code) a while ago:

http://simon.incutio.com/archive/2003/10/19/convertingLinks

Regular expressions are awesomely powerful, but that power often comes 
at the expense of readability and sometimes even being able to 
understand fully what your code is really doing.

-- 
Simon Willison
Web development weblog: http://simon.incutio.com/


From cs1spw at bath.ac.uk  Mon Nov  3 11:56:43 2003
From: cs1spw at bath.ac.uk (Simon Willison)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:56:43 -0600
Subject: [thelist] png in IE
In-Reply-To: <000f01c3a228$8d4f4580$03a8a8c0@marcusnb>
References: <000f01c3a228$8d4f4580$03a8a8c0@marcusnb>
Message-ID: <3FA696DB.8080302@bath.ac.uk>

Marcus Andersson wrote:
> I have these icons in png format and want to make use of them in IE. The
> icons have transparent backgrounds that works nicely in
> Mozilla/Photoshop. When I use them in IE I get this ugly grey background
> instead of the transparent one. 
>  
> Should I do anything special to make it work or should I consider to
> convert the icons to gif?

IE for Windows doesn't support alpha-transparent PNGs, despite the 
standard having been finalised over 5 years ago. There is a workaround 
but it's weird voodoo magic - still, it might be just what you're after:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bobosola/

If that isn't suitable you'll have to switch back to transparent gifs.

-- 
Simon Willison
Web development weblog: http://simon.incutio.com/


From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  3 12:00:14 2003
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:00:14 +0000
Subject: [thelist] Language Detection vrs. Splash Screen
Message-ID: <Sea2-F47QM7gyoPB2EW000015f6@hotmail.com>



>Hopefully I'm not repeating a thread here but surprisingly I couldn't find 
>anything comprehensive about this issue: Languages.
>
>A client wants to serve up both an English and French version of a website. 
>We do not want to default to English with the thinking that this might 
>"offend" our French audience, for lack of a better word. So we have two 
>options:
>
>1. A splash page with language choice/selection.
>2. Utilize a script to detect the default langauge set on the user's 
>browser.

3. Use my new Bilingual Pages script. 
http://www.quirksmode.org/js/bilingual.html

On the opening page, show a small text in both languages, followed by 'Read 
more' or 'Lisez plus' (I assume). The user will click on the link in the 
language of his choice. My script captures this click and sets a cookie that 
remembers the language. If you include the script on all pages in the site, 
the user will see the language of his choice, while the other one is greyed 
out and very small.

This script is still in experimental stage, usability-wise. Technically it 
works. I would welcome comments on its (lack of) usability.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
ppk, freelance web developer
Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.quirksmode.org/
Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
------------------------------------------------------------------

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus


From hassan at webtuitive.com  Mon Nov  3 12:01:42 2003
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:01:42 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Tomcat versus Apache _and_ Tomcat
In-Reply-To: <Sea1-DAV36rYILoygXL00010294@hotmail.com>
References: <Sea1-DAV36rYILoygXL00010294@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3FA69806.9060909@webtuitive.com>

Steve Jenkins wrote:

> Anyone know why one should deploy a live production server with 
 > Apache and Tomcat as opposed to with just Tomcat?

1) you need a capability provided by an Apache module and don't
    want to re-create that wheel in Java

2) familiarity with Apache configuration (SSL, authentication, etc.)

3) performance of non-servlet/jsp assets, like images

This latter sounds like "conventional wisdom" that may or may not be
true. If you look at org.apache.catalina.servlets.DefaultServlet, it
*is* kind of a kitchen-sink handler, but in casual testing I didn't
see much difference between Apache-served and Tomcat-served images.

If your testing showed otherwise, it wouldn't be hard to add your
own optimized image-handling servlet, though. Actually, google, or
ask on the Tomcat list; someone may have already done it :-)

HTH!
-- 
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.




From marcan at home.se  Mon Nov  3 12:06:58 2003
From: marcan at home.se (Marcus Andersson)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:06:58 +0100
Subject: SV: [thelist] png in IE
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20031103170824.00a99d88@mail.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <001501c3a235$4631efb0$03a8a8c0@marcusnb>

Thanks for the link.

The article proposes a filter :( . I found it myself a couple of minutes
ago and I don't really like it since I have some bad performance
experience regarding filters in IE. But, if it's the only way I guess I
just have to like it

/Marcus

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Fr?n: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] F?r kris burford
Skickat: den 3 november 2003 18:11
Till: thelist at lists.evolt.org
?mne: Re: [thelist] png in IE



>I have these icons in png format and want to make use of them in IE.

hi marcus,

alistapart has some stuff to say about this: 
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/pngopacity/

hth

kris



-- 
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  3 09:41:14 2003
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:41:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [thelist] using character entities
Message-ID: <20031103154114.46478.qmail@web12605.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello,

Just working on my HTML guidelines doc again for my department. I'm
on HTML character entities, and I'm trying to explain the reason why
you should use them (we are generally using XHTML transitional) in
our pages.

I've been using them long enough, but for some reason I cannot come
up with the reason why. Sure, pages won't validate is a partial
reason, but not really a good one and not one that will be accepted
here. I feel as though I am missing the obvious but can't think of
it...

Tom

=====
http://www.pixelmech.com/ :: Web Development Services
http://www.DMXzone.com/ :: JavaScript Author / Every Friday!
http://www.thywordistruth.net/ :: Eternal Life

"I'll ho ho and ha ha you!" (Daffy Duck)

From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Mon Nov  3 12:33:01 2003
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:33:01 -0600 
Subject: [thelist] png in IE
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E5160@smtmb.tmc.local>

First of all, don't use .png's. They don't render in some browsers as well
as the Asian browsers, at last check. Use what you know works (i.e. gif /
jpg).

Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: Marcus Andersson [mailto:marcan at home.se]
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 10:36 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] png in IE


Hi
 
I have these icons in png format and want to make use of them in IE. The
icons have transparent backgrounds that works nicely in
Mozilla/Photoshop. When I use them in IE I get this ugly grey background
instead of the transparent one. 
 
Should I do anything special to make it work or should I consider to
convert the icons to gif?
 
/Marcus
-- 
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 

From hershelr at netvision.net.il  Mon Nov  3 12:38:53 2003
From: hershelr at netvision.net.il (Hershel Robinson)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:38:53 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
In-Reply-To: 	<C263956D43E36B4E966EDE6DE7C10C972AF6B0@Yosemite.MetroGuide.RealMetros.RealMetros.com>
Message-ID: <007301c3a239$bbe8af10$0300000a@hershel2000>

> Sometimes you have to use a link because you need to dynamically
> generate it.

Ummm, you can also generate a button via the DOM. :)

You could generate the entire form via JS actually.

Hershel

From hassan at webtuitive.com  Mon Nov  3 12:56:20 2003
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:56:20 -0800
Subject: [thelist] deleting php vars
In-Reply-To: <3FA69340.5080905@teltest.com>
References: 	<C8F323573C030A448F3E5A2B6FE2070B01AFA9BB@nemesis><002501c39ef2$d6285eb0$1001a8c0@janpc>
	<3FA17B23.5000100@teltest.com> <01c301c3a1f0$5d596af0$1001a8c0@janpc>
	<3FA69340.5080905@teltest.com>
Message-ID: <3FA6A4D4.1090204@webtuitive.com>

Paul Bennett wrote:

> Other than that you could enter the users session id (you can append 
> these to the url if you want to get all the non-js browsers) in a db 
> table when the code is run and then at the beginning of your script 
> check if the id already has an entry in the table. If it does you now 
> not to run the code.

Just make the sessionId field in the database UNIQUE.

An attempt to insert it again will fail; catch that exception and
return an appropriate response.

-- 
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.




From Tim.Kuhn at gettyimages.com  Mon Nov  3 13:12:46 2003
From: Tim.Kuhn at gettyimages.com (Tim Kuhn (temp))
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:12:46 -0800 
Subject: [thelist] Re: Page Size; Fixed Layout 
Message-ID: <05B9FC51BB35C247859214C18073CCB90649EF@seafrexchrestor.sea.amer.gettywan.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-request at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-request at lists.evolt.org] 
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:03 AM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: thelist Digest, Vol 9, Issue 5


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Page Size; Fixed Layout

>No. A significant proportion of users still use 800x600, and even
>those on higher don't always run their browser windows fullscreen.

You also cannot forget your users on laptops. 800x600 is a better goal with them in mind.

-- 



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This email and its contents are confidential. If you
are not the intended recipient, please do not disclose
or use the information within this email or its
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From kris at midtempo.net  Mon Nov  3 13:14:20 2003
From: kris at midtempo.net (kris burford)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:14:20 +0000
Subject: [thelist] [php] preg_replace text links?
In-Reply-To: <3FA6962B.30507@bath.ac.uk>
References: <4.2.0.58.20031103091915.00a5a098@mail.btinternet.com>
 <4.2.0.58.20031103091915.00a5a098@mail.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20031103190038.00a87c18@mail.btinternet.com>


>One solution is simply to not use regular expressions to solve this 
>particular problem. I wrote up a blog entry on this technique (with sample 
>code) a while ago:
>
>http://simon.incutio.com/archive/2003/10/19/convertingLinks

hi simon,

that's a really nice explanation. thanks.

kris

<tip type="php" author="kris burford">

make sure if you're serializing arrays for posting via a form that you 
base64_encode/decode them. The serialized string otherwise contains 
quotations that will mess up your form and add/stripslashes doesn't work.

</tip>

<tip type="php" author="kris burford">

be careful when using array_unique as it *does not* sort out the key 
increment. so if you subsequently use the array in a for loop referenced by 
indices, you'll experience weird results!

instead use: (from user submitted comment on php.net)

function my_array_unique($array){
     $tmparr = array_unique($array);
     $i=0;
     foreach ($tmparr as $v) {
         $newarr[$i] = $v;
         $i++;
     }
     return $newarr;
}

</tip>


From jeff at jeffhowden.com  Mon Nov  3 13:26:50 2003
From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:26:50 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
In-Reply-To: <006f01c3a22f$ad173dd0$0300000a@hershel2000>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLAEKDLIAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>

hershel,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Hershel Robinson
>
> > i have done this in the past -- styled a button to
> > look like a hyperlink -- at the client's request in
> > a closed intranet... i found it was faster, easier,
> > and offered more flexibility to use CSS...
>
> Faster and easier? But then I would have to write JS to
> create a rollover effect. :)
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

surely the "cost" of writing a simple color swapping mouseover script is far
less.

what's more, if the browser you have to support is mozilla, it supports the
:hover pseudo-protocol making scripting pointless.  on the other hand, if
it's ie/win you have to support, then just use a behavior attached to the
class you use for your submit buttons.  that behavior can be built to mimic
the :hover pseudo-protocol very nicely.

now the forms aren't potentially broken and they're usable by users without
javascript, even if the intranet *mandates* it (now).

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > 1) some browsers break forms that don't have an actual
> >    submit button meaning you can't use the enter key
> >    to submit the form.  some claim this as a good
> >    thing, but it's not.  it's a disruption of
> >    expected behavior for those users accustomed to it.
>
> But I wrote about a NON-cross browser site, so this is
> not a problem if the ONE browser allows the button.
> (furthermore you could also write JS to handle this)
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

great, throw more scripting at a problem that wouldn't exist if you didn't
insist in mangling the ui with javascript to begin with.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > 2) look all around you at data collection forms.  in
> >    practically all the cases a button is used to
> >    submit the data, not a link.  using a link is a
> >    departure from normal ui conventions and will be
> >    nothing but a confusion for your users.
>
> I disagree. Many sites use an image as a submit 'button'
> (especially for searches) and for the casual user, that
> looks more like a link than a button.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

did i say site?  no, i was far more general than that.  i said "data
collection forms".  these could just as easily be preferences/options/input
dialogs.  i suspect that many users interact with these sorts of dialogs far
more than they do with data collection forms on websites.  the fact that
people use graphical submit buttons simply muddies the usability in general,
but doesn't support your claim.

furthermore, *very* few will actually make the image look like a text link.
most sites that use a graphical submit button still use an image that
resembles a button.  so, in the users mind, they consider it a button
because of the form field it sits next to, rather than a link.

[aside: many of the people who use graphical submit buttons are doing so in
a manner that goes against the original intent of the graphical submit
button.  it's not meant to be used to "prettify" a form, but to give the
user a mechanism to send mouse-click coordinates to the server for one
purpose or another (most useful with mapping).]

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > 3) can you really mandate that non-sighted users use
> >    ie as well?  or, are you going to have to succumb
> >    to their need to use a screenreader (which may or
> >    may not be based on the ie web browser control)?
>
> Again, I'm talking about a NON-cross browser site. If
> the site only supports one browser, then YES all users
> would have to use THAT browser. :)
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

then what is the visually impaired user supposed to do?

and suppose they do find a way to use the intranet using the mandated
browser along with a screenreader.  which makes more sense (read them
aloud)?

 -Data Entry Form -
 - text - -List Box-
 -Link: Submit
 -End of Data Entry Form -

or

 -Data Entry Form -
 - text - -List Box-
 - submit -
 -End of Data Entry Form -

which one is more apparent how to submit the form?

now, i gave your example a slight improvement by using text in the link, but
the fact that it's a link makes it really confusing.  sure, with time the
user can get past the fact that it says "Link: ".  however, forms *should*
be slightly more intuitive than that.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > 4) what do you do if the company gets a wild hair up
> >    their bum and changes their browser standard
> >    internally?
>
> Now you have come to your singular interesting point.
> If that were to happen, then I would just explain to
> them (as they already know) that it will take me X days
> to deal with converting their site to a new browser. :)
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

ah yes, job security through vendor lockdown.

sorry, but i still fail to see a reason to use javascript and a link to
submit the form.  it just causes way too many problems.  better to leave the
submit buttons alone or force them into your (or your client's) idea of a
good-looking ui with css.

.jeff

------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist
Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/
Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/


From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Mon Nov  3 13:33:05 2003
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:33:05 -0600 
Subject: [thelist] using character entities
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E5162@smtmb.tmc.local>

Why?

Because.

Seriously though. I had a ` in my database the other day and for some odd
reason it was spitting out a Chinese character. I hopped over to Babel fish
and funny enough the character translated as "Crazy" in Chinese. Had I
replace()d my ` with &acute;, I would have gotten a more exact response. 

There's some ammo,

Rob

From jeff at jeffhowden.com  Mon Nov  3 13:43:06 2003
From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:43:06 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
In-Reply-To: <C263956D43E36B4E966EDE6DE7C10C972AF6B0@Yosemite.MetroGuide.RealMetros.RealMetros.com>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLKEKELIAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>

tab,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Tab Alleman
> 
> Sometimes you have to use a link because you need to
> dynamically generate it.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

how does a link make it any easier?

how does a submit button make it any less possible?

.jeff

------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist
Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/
Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/


From cs1spw at bath.ac.uk  Mon Nov  3 13:46:53 2003
From: cs1spw at bath.ac.uk (Simon Willison)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:46:53 -0600
Subject: [thelist] using character entities
In-Reply-To: <20031103154114.46478.qmail@web12605.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20031103154114.46478.qmail@web12605.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3FA6B0AD.1070304@bath.ac.uk>

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
> Just working on my HTML guidelines doc again for my department. I'm
> on HTML character entities, and I'm trying to explain the reason why
> you should use them (we are generally using XHTML transitional) in
> our pages.
> 
> I've been using them long enough, but for some reason I cannot come
> up with the reason why. Sure, pages won't validate is a partial
> reason, but not really a good one and not one that will be accepted
> here. I feel as though I am missing the obvious but can't think of
> it...

If you're using XHTML transitional, your pages should be well-formed 
XML. The principle reason for using XHTML is that documents are XML and 
can thus be processed using XML tools (such as XPath and XSLT) - if your 
documents don't use HTML entities they won't be valid XML and the 
advantage of using XHTML is lost.

Also, using entities garauntees compatibility with browsers and other 
user agents. Most browsers attempt to emulate IE's highly forgiving 
parsing of incorrect entities but since it's not part of any standard 
there's no garauntee that all browsers will get it right.

-- 
Simon Willison
Web development weblog: http://simon.incutio.com/


From kris at midtempo.net  Mon Nov  3 13:52:28 2003
From: kris at midtempo.net (kris burford)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:52:28 +0000
Subject: [thelist] png in IE
In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E5160@smtmb.tmc.local>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20031103195143.017f8c60@mail.btinternet.com>

Rob wrote:

>They don't render in some browsers as well
>as the Asian browsers, at last check.

Rob, can you elaborate as to what you mean by "Asian browsers"??

tia

kris



From lists at neoncowboy.com  Mon Nov  3 14:09:02 2003
From: lists at neoncowboy.com (John Corry)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:09:02 -1000
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
In-Reply-To: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLIEHALIAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.7.1260241271.26438.thelist@lists.evolt.org>

 
The form is for a flower farmer to update the list of available
flowers/varieties/colors.

The flower farmer (NS 7/Win XP) is the only person using the form.

He can see. He can hear. He has JavaScript turned on.

The form is pretty long. I want to put an *optional* link elsewhere on the
page from whence he can submit the form. There's a button too..but just one,
at the bottom of the form.

I don't need the onSubmit event.

As far as I know, a submit button can only be in the form that is being
submitted. That won't work, I need it in a whole different part of the page.

Of course you're right .jeff, and maybe I won't do it this way, maybe I'll
just sprinkle submit buttons throughout the form...but in the context I'm
working in, using a link with submit() just is not that out of line.

You'll notice that my original post did not say:
'Help, I need to be educated on the best way to balance accessibility and to
know the best way to submit my form'

I don't care about the dogma, I can figure that out on my own. Thanks.

John Corry

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Howden
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:59 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: John Corry
>
> A form object's submit() method will not work if the form has an input 
> named 'submit'.
>
> Change the name of the submit button and you've got it.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

<tip type="JavaScript" author=".jeff">

the submit() method is the lazy developer's way out of doing something the
right way.  never use it.  instead, consider an alternate means of
submitting the form, like say, including a submit button that *everyone* can
use.

</tip>

<tip type="JavaScript" author=".jeff">

beware of the submit() method.  it won't cause the onsubmit event handler to
fire.

</tip>

.jeff

------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist Resume -
http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/
Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/

--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives
of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  3 12:53:06 2003
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:53:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
In-Reply-To: <C263956D43E36B4E966EDE6DE7C10C972AF6B0@Yosemite.MetroGuide.RealMetros.RealMetros.com>
Message-ID: <20031103185306.96353.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Tab Alleman <Tab.Alleman at MetroGuide.com> wrote:
> Sometimes you have to use a link because you need to dynamically
> generate it.

So? Dynamically generate a submit button instead.

Tom

=====
http://www.pixelmech.com/ :: Web Development Services
http://www.DMXzone.com/ :: JavaScript Author / Every Friday!
http://www.thywordistruth.net/ :: Eternal Life

"I'll ho ho and ha ha you!" (Daffy Duck)

From hershelr at netvision.net.il  Mon Nov  3 14:54:34 2003
From: hershelr at netvision.net.il (Hershel Robinson)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:54:34 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
In-Reply-To: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLAEKDLIAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>
Message-ID: <008601c3a24c$b01bec20$0300000a@hershel2000>

I did build a site that uses JS drop-down menus, built with links. Some of
these menu choices submitted forms, some did not.

> then what is the visually impaired user supposed to do?

We don't have any. Would such a person one day want to use this particular
site (a controlled audience site) he would have far greater problems than
figuring out how to submit his form. Is the company concerned about the
possibility that one day such a person will want to use this site? No.

> ah yes, job security through vendor lockdown.

Job security? Could be the exact opposite. Maybe someone who has NOT spent
the past 2 years working primarily in this Win IE only environment would be
better equipped to fix the site to work with other browsers. :)

> sorry, but i still fail to see a reason to use javascript and
> a link to
> submit the form.  it just causes way too many problems.
> better to leave the
> submit buttons alone or force them into your (or your
> client's) idea of a
> good-looking ui with css.

I generally would agree that it is not a good choice. In the site mentioned
above (with dropdowns) I had not thought of styling buttons to look like
links and then adding some sort of mouseover or CSS behavior. Given our
layout of dropdown menus, which are entirely in a different location (in the
code and on the page) than the actual form, I don't see how buttons would be
any better than links. Either one is not very friendly for a screen reader
and both require JS code to make them work.

Hershel


From Tab.Alleman at MetroGuide.com  Mon Nov  3 14:56:11 2003
From: Tab.Alleman at MetroGuide.com (Tab Alleman)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:56:11 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
Message-ID: <C263956D43E36B4E966EDE6DE7C10C97060855@Yosemite.MetroGuide.RealMetros.RealMetros.com>

Well that's true that a button can be dynamically created too.. But
dammit, I know there've been times when I *had* to have a link that
submitted a form, but now I can't remember why.  Maybe it was just
aesthetics after all.  

Part of it might have been that I once didn't know that a form could
have multiple submit buttons, all with the same name, and whichever was
clicked would send its name/value pair in the form object to the
processing script.  So in order to have the script handle the form
differently depending on which button was clicked, I used a javascript
function to populate a hidden input and then submit the form.  It was
the only way I knew how to tell which button was clicked, but now I know
there's a better way.  

From cneppes at port80software.com  Mon Nov  3 14:42:46 2003
From: cneppes at port80software.com (Chris Neppes)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:42:46 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Language Detection vrs. Splash Screen
Message-ID: <D0E8117DBE110546B7C1781660DD579A1A63DF@mailbox.port80software.com>

Kent,

You should negotiate with client browser preferences, pre-sense their
language preferences, and automatically serve the proper file with the
correct language-type content.

Here are some solutions based on Web server type:

On IIS:
www.pagexchanger.com
http://www.port80software.com/products/pagexchanger/faq#question11

On Apache: 
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_negotiation.html

If you would like some help getting started, let me know.

Best,
Chris


     ::::::::::     ::::::::::

Chris Neppes  
Port80 Software, Inc. 
www.port80software.com  

5252 Balboa Ave., Ste. 605 
San Diego, CA 92117 
cneppes at port80software.com
858.268.7960 voice
619.733.7484 cell 
858.268.7760 fax

Web server modules for Microsoft IIS.
security. performance. user experience.

From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Mon Nov  3 15:20:14 2003
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:20:14 -0600 
Subject: [thelist] png in IE
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E5165@smtmb.tmc.local>

<snip author="kris">
Rob, can you elaborate as to what you mean by "Asian browsers"??
</snip>

Pssst. This is where you step in Jay Blanchard and say it was a Chinese
browser. Correct me if I'm wrong. 
I'd confirm the exact browser but that machine died about a year ago. 

Sorry,

Rob

From simon.perry at si-designs.co.uk  Mon Nov  3 15:34:23 2003
From: simon.perry at si-designs.co.uk (Simon Perry)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:34:23 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
References: <E1AGlsF-0001Hg-Oc@harvey.meta-servers.com>
Message-ID: <00df01c3a252$3ff896e0$3100a8c0@xppro>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Corry"

<snip></snip>
>The form is pretty long. I want to put an *optional* link elsewhere on the
>page from whence he can submit the form. There's a button too..but just
one,
>at the bottom of the form.


Am I missing something? Surely once you are in the form hitting enter at any
point will submit it. No looking for submit it links, no extra buttons, no
JavaScript, no messing with user expectations just a simple hit enter to
submit this form at any time. If you only have one form on the page then
open it after <body> and close it just before </body>, AFAIK this approach
is perfectly valid mark-up as any element can reside within the form tags.
At the very most the only thing you may need to do is one onfocus() call on
page load to ensure the form is "live".

Simon


From jeff at jeffhowden.com  Mon Nov  3 16:19:45 2003
From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:19:45 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
In-Reply-To: <20031103200851.26335.10884@hm-mx1b.solinus.com>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLMELILIAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>

john,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: John Corry [mailto:lists at neoncowboy.com]
>
> The form is for a flower farmer to update the list of
> available flowers/varieties/colors.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

excellent.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> The flower farmer (NS 7/Win XP) is the only person using
> the form.
>
> He can see. He can hear. He has JavaScript turned on.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

until he reads an article about this evil thing called javascript and all
its security problems and follows the instructions on how to disable it.
then he's left with a link that no longer does what he expects.  highly
doubtful he'll equate his action with that reaction.  instead, he'll come to
you asking why it's stopped working.  you *might* have the foresight to ask
if javascript is enabled at which point you should hope he remembers he
disabled it.  if not, have fun.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> The form is pretty long. I want to put an *optional*
> link elsewhere on the page from whence he can submit
> the form. There's a button too..but just one, at the
> bottom of the form.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

any reason you can't just move the <form> and </form> tags in order to
encompass this optional link?

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> I don't need the onSubmit event.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

no, but when you do.  time to re-engineer.

this is avoidable though.  don't use the submit() method.  instead, call a
click() event on the submit button when the link is clicked.  now, no more
problems with browsers and the submit() method and the onsubmit event
handler will be there for you user later should you need it.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> As far as I know, a submit button can only be in the
> form that is being submitted. That won't work, I need
> it in a whole different part of the page.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

and is that part of the page wrapped in another form?  if not, see above
about moving the <form> or </form> tags to accommodate.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> Of course you're right .jeff, and maybe I won't do it
> this way, maybe I'll just sprinkle submit buttons
> throughout the form...but in the context I'm working in,
> using a link with submit() just is not that out of line.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

you just brought up a good point though.  if this "submit" link is somewhere
else entirely on the page, then does it have any context with the form it's
submitting?  perhaps not.  making it a link and not a submit button takes it
even more out of context.  sure, it's for a single user so you can chalk it
up to user training, but that's the sort of design decision that comes back
to haunt you.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> You'll notice that my original post did not say:
> 'Help, I need to be educated on the best way to balance
> accessibility and to know the best way to submit my
> form'
>
> I don't care about the dogma, I can figure that out on
> my own. Thanks.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

you can call it dogma if you like, but there's plenty of evidence to back up
what i'm talking about.

however, you get what you pay for.  you asked for help and i countered with
alternatives and why i thought they were better.  you're free to do it
whatever way you want, but you're going to have a difficult time
legitimizing your current solution on thelist.  if it works for you, fine,
but i really don't want people to get the idea it's ok to use all over the
place.

.jeff

------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist
Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/
Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/


From sabaffy at mswebdevelopment.com  Mon Nov  3 17:31:48 2003
From: sabaffy at mswebdevelopment.com (Steve Abaffy)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:31:48 -0600
Subject: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
Message-ID: <ECEOJNOEBBFGGFHOGEOMOEOAMMAA.sabaffy@mswebdevelopment.com>

Hello,

	I apologize for the off topic question, but I am at my wits end. When I try
to open photoshop 7.0, which has been working fine for the past year or so,
it gets to the loading brushes then whatever the next thing is I don't know,
because as soon as it starts to do it the program shuts down as if has run
into an unrecoverable error. So I uninstalled it, and reinstalled it with no
change in behaviour. I then tried to apply the 7.0.1 upgrade but it does not
recognize that photoshop is even loaded on the machine. Any help as to why
this might be happening would be appreciated.

Thank you



From jpeth at mac.com  Mon Nov  3 17:31:24 2003
From: jpeth at mac.com (J. Anthony Peth)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:31:24 -0800
Subject: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
In-Reply-To: <ECEOJNOEBBFGGFHOGEOMOEOAMMAA.sabaffy@mswebdevelopment.com>
Message-ID: <BBCC254C.80CC%jpeth@mac.com>

Have you done anything different with fonts lately?

Tony


> From: Steve Abaffy <sabaffy at mswebdevelopment.com>
> Reply-To: "thelist at lists.evolt.org" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:31:48 -0600
> To: Java <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I apologize for the off topic question, but I am at my wits end. When I try
> to open photoshop 7.0, which has been working fine for the past year or so,
> it gets to the loading brushes then whatever the next thing is I don't know,
> because as soon as it starts to do it the program shuts down as if has run
> into an unrecoverable error. So I uninstalled it, and reinstalled it with no
> change in behaviour. I then tried to apply the 7.0.1 upgrade but it does not
> recognize that photoshop is even loaded on the machine. Any help as to why
> this might be happening would be appreciated.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> 
> -- 
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
> 
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


From nansmith at heritageconcord.org  Mon Nov  3 17:42:46 2003
From: nansmith at heritageconcord.org (Nan Harbison)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:42:46 -0500
Subject: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
In-Reply-To: <BBCC254C.80CC%jpeth@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BDEGINKLKKDNIMKNAMKNAEBMDHAA.nansmith@heritageconcord.org>

Steve,
Did you try uninstalling it and reinstalling it? This
happened to me once with a program, I called tech support,
they suggested doing this, and it worked. I forget what
program it was, I don't think it was PS, but it is worth a
try.
Nan



Behalf Of J. Anthony Peth
Subject: Re: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open


Have you done anything different with fonts lately?

Tony


> From: Steve Abaffy <sabaffy at mswebdevelopment.com>
> Subject: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
>
> Hello,
>
> I apologize for the off topic question, but I am at my
wits end. When I try
> to open photoshop 7.0, which has been working fine for
the past year or so,
> it gets to the loading brushes then whatever the next
thing is I don't know,
> because as soon as it starts to do it the program shuts
down as if has run
> into an unrecoverable error. So I uninstalled it, and
reinstalled it with no
> change in behaviour. I then tried to apply the 7.0.1
upgrade but it does not
> recognize that photoshop is even loaded on the machine.
Any help as to why
> this might be happening would be appreciated.
>
> Thank you





From paul at teltest.com  Mon Nov  3 18:21:02 2003
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:21:02 +1300
Subject: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
In-Reply-To: <BDEGINKLKKDNIMKNAMKNAEBMDHAA.nansmith@heritageconcord.org>
References: <BDEGINKLKKDNIMKNAMKNAEBMDHAA.nansmith@heritageconcord.org>
Message-ID: <3FA6F0EE.2000309@teltest.com>

Nan Harbison wrote:

>Steve,
>Did you try uninstalling it and reinstalling it? This
>happened to me once with a program, I called tech support,
>they suggested doing this, and it worked. I forget what
>program it was, I don't think it was PS, but it is worth a
>try.
>Nan
>  
>
was the program called "Windows"?
:)
Sorry - tip owed
<tip type="coders working with graphic designers">
When working with print-oriented graphic designers don't be afraid to 
let them know when you see visuals that may cause
headaches when laying sites out or building database-driven backends.
 Don't be afraid to politely educate graphic designers about standards, 
browser incompatibilites, and accessibility issues - graphic designers 
who are not familiar with the web simply may not relaise these issues 
exist.

Also don't be afraid to listen when they want you to correct layout or 
visual issues. They may be print oriented, but they still know what 
works visually.


</tip>

>
>
>  
>


-- 
 ------------------------------
	Paul Bennett						
	Internet Developer				
	Teltest Electronic Design		
 ------------------------------			
Email: paul at teltest.com				
Phone: 64 4 237 4557					
Web: http://www.teltest.com		
Wap: http://wap.teltest.com			



From sabaffy at mswebdevelopment.com  Mon Nov  3 18:32:14 2003
From: sabaffy at mswebdevelopment.com (Steve Abaffy)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:32:14 -0600
Subject: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
In-Reply-To: <BBCC254C.80CC%jpeth@mac.com>
Message-ID: <ECEOJNOEBBFGGFHOGEOMAEOCMMAA.sabaffy@mswebdevelopment.com>

No nothing new with the fonts. I have not added any or deleted any. And I
have un/reinstalled the program 4 times now.. with no change in behaviour.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-bounces-sabaffy=mswebdevelopment.com at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-bounces-sabaffy=mswebdevelopment.com at lists.evolt.org]On
> Behalf Of J. Anthony Peth
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 5:31 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
>
>
> Have you done anything different with fonts lately?
>
> Tony
>
>
> > From: Steve Abaffy <sabaffy at mswebdevelopment.com>
> > Reply-To: "thelist at lists.evolt.org" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> > Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:31:48 -0600
> > To: Java <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> > Subject: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I apologize for the off topic question, but I am at my wits
> end. When I try
> > to open photoshop 7.0, which has been working fine for the past
> year or so,
> > it gets to the loading brushes then whatever the next thing is
> I don't know,
> > because as soon as it starts to do it the program shuts down as
> if has run
> > into an unrecoverable error. So I uninstalled it, and
> reinstalled it with no
> > change in behaviour. I then tried to apply the 7.0.1 upgrade
> but it does not
> > recognize that photoshop is even loaded on the machine. Any
> help as to why
> > this might be happening would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> >
> > --
> > * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
> >
> > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> > Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>



From lists at thinkbigideas.com  Mon Nov  3 18:32:13 2003
From: lists at thinkbigideas.com (Anthony Baker > ThinkBigIdeas)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:32:13 -0800
Subject: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
In-Reply-To: <ECEOJNOEBBFGGFHOGEOMOEOAMMAA.sabaffy@mswebdevelopment.com>
Message-ID: <200311040032.hA40WNCB023038@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net>

 
Hey There,

I've had the same problem with all my Adobe applications when
installing them from my desktop (where they've worked fine)
to my laptop.

One suggestion, which I haven't yet tried -- but will tonight --
is that there may be a corrupted font causing the grief. I am
going to uninstall all fonts except my system fonts and then
try and boot it.

As with you, all my filters and presets loaded. The crash 
appeared to happen when loading fonts.


/Anthony



| 	I apologize for the off topic question, but I am at my 
| wits end. When I try
| to open photoshop 7.0, which has been working fine for the 
| past year or so,
| it gets to the loading brushes then whatever the next thing 
| is I don't know,
| because as soon as it starts to do it the program shuts down 
| as if has run
| into an unrecoverable error. So I uninstalled it, and 
| reinstalled it with no
| change in behaviour. I then tried to apply the 7.0.1 upgrade 
| but it does not
| recognize that photoshop is even loaded on the machine. Any 
| help as to why
| this might be happening would be appreciated.
| 
| Thank you



From aholmes at pureguru.com  Mon Nov  3 18:51:41 2003
From: aholmes at pureguru.com (Aaron Holmes)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:51:41 -0500
Subject: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
In-Reply-To: <200311040032.hA40WNCB023038@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net>
Message-ID: <000001c3a26d$d32d1d30$6600a8c0@gurixstation001>

I can sadly say that I can confirm the same problems here.

Adobe Photoshop 7 loads and immediately after splash screen exits,
continually. Problem persists after multiple reinstalls, virus/malware
scans and disk checks. 

The problem first occurred while Adobe Photoshop was in use. An
unexpected termination of that application ensued and since then the
problems noted have been experienced.

I believe that it may very well be an issue with the fonts. However, are
there any ideas as to why a particular font or set of fonts would
suddenly malfunction (Windows corruption problems come to mind, although
I'm more concerned as to whether or not Photoshop itself is the
culprit)?

Has anyone reported this to the Adobe developers as of yet?

I've done a bit of searching and found the following (may not be of any
use)

http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?50 at 46.ELyeba32BEg.8@.1dea4f00

This one looks right on path and I'll be attempting things mentioned
here next:
http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?50 at 46.ELyeba32BEg.8@.1dea13f0

Hope this helps guys

 
Sincerely yours, 
 
Aaron Holmes
CEO
Gurix Web Professionals
Welland, Ontario
Canada
 
Corporate e-mail: aholmes at gurix.com
 
V: 905.324.3241
F: 905.734.1398
http://www.gurix.com
 
Subscribe to "Balancing Today's Technology," our free, monthly,
electronic newsletter about using technology in business by e-mail to: 
join-todaystech at gurix.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Baker >
ThinkBigIdeas
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 7:32 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open

 
Hey There,

I've had the same problem with all my Adobe applications when
installing them from my desktop (where they've worked fine)
to my laptop.

One suggestion, which I haven't yet tried -- but will tonight --
is that there may be a corrupted font causing the grief. I am
going to uninstall all fonts except my system fonts and then
try and boot it.

As with you, all my filters and presets loaded. The crash 
appeared to happen when loading fonts.


/Anthony



| 	I apologize for the off topic question, but I am at my 
| wits end. When I try
| to open photoshop 7.0, which has been working fine for the 
| past year or so,
| it gets to the loading brushes then whatever the next thing 
| is I don't know,
| because as soon as it starts to do it the program shuts down 
| as if has run
| into an unrecoverable error. So I uninstalled it, and 
| reinstalled it with no
| change in behaviour. I then tried to apply the 7.0.1 upgrade 
| but it does not
| recognize that photoshop is even loaded on the machine. Any 
| help as to why
| this might be happening would be appreciated.
| 
| Thank you


-- 
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

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and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
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From aholmes at pureguru.com  Mon Nov  3 18:56:19 2003
From: aholmes at pureguru.com (Aaron Holmes)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:56:19 -0500
Subject: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
In-Reply-To: <200311040032.hA40WNCB023038@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net>
Message-ID: <000101c3a26e$79d4fe50$6600a8c0@gurixstation001>

Good news all,

Further to my prior email:

The following has corrected all errors:
	
	1. Load Adobe Photoshop
	2. QUICKLY press Crtl+Alt+Shift on load to reset settings (right
on 	load, and be fast - it took me several tries).

Everything is back to normal now! Phew...

 
Sincerely yours, 
 
Aaron Holmes
CEO
Gurix Web Professionals
Welland, Ontario
Canada
 
Corporate e-mail: aholmes at gurix.com
 
V: 905.324.3241
F: 905.734.1398
http://www.gurix.com
 
Subscribe to "Balancing Today's Technology," our free, monthly,
electronic newsletter about using technology in business by e-mail to: 
join-todaystech at gurix.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Baker >
ThinkBigIdeas
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 7:32 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open

 
Hey There,

I've had the same problem with all my Adobe applications when
installing them from my desktop (where they've worked fine)
to my laptop.

One suggestion, which I haven't yet tried -- but will tonight --
is that there may be a corrupted font causing the grief. I am
going to uninstall all fonts except my system fonts and then
try and boot it.

As with you, all my filters and presets loaded. The crash 
appeared to happen when loading fonts.


/Anthony



| 	I apologize for the off topic question, but I am at my 
| wits end. When I try
| to open photoshop 7.0, which has been working fine for the 
| past year or so,
| it gets to the loading brushes then whatever the next thing 
| is I don't know,
| because as soon as it starts to do it the program shuts down 
| as if has run
| into an unrecoverable error. So I uninstalled it, and 
| reinstalled it with no
| change in behaviour. I then tried to apply the 7.0.1 upgrade 
| but it does not
| recognize that photoshop is even loaded on the machine. Any 
| help as to why
| this might be happening would be appreciated.
| 
| Thank you


-- 
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From sabaffy at mswebdevelopment.com  Mon Nov  3 19:20:49 2003
From: sabaffy at mswebdevelopment.com (Steve Abaffy)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:20:49 -0600
Subject: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
In-Reply-To: <000101c3a26e$79d4fe50$6600a8c0@gurixstation001>
Message-ID: <ECEOJNOEBBFGGFHOGEOMGEODMMAA.sabaffy@mswebdevelopment.com>

Yes that did fix it... Thanks very much... 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Aaron Holmes
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 6:56 PM
> To: lists at thinkbigideas.com; thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
> 
> 
> Good news all,
> 
> Further to my prior email:
> 
> The following has corrected all errors:
> 	
> 	1. Load Adobe Photoshop
> 	2. QUICKLY press Crtl+Alt+Shift on load to reset settings (right
> on 	load, and be fast - it took me several tries).
> 
> Everything is back to normal now! Phew...
> 
>  
> Sincerely yours, 
>  
> Aaron Holmes
> CEO
> Gurix Web Professionals
> Welland, Ontario
> Canada
>  
> Corporate e-mail: aholmes at gurix.com
>  
> V: 905.324.3241
> F: 905.734.1398
> http://www.gurix.com
>  
> Subscribe to "Balancing Today's Technology," our free, monthly,
> electronic newsletter about using technology in business by e-mail to: 
> join-todaystech at gurix.com
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Baker >
> ThinkBigIdeas
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 7:32 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
> 
>  
> Hey There,
> 
> I've had the same problem with all my Adobe applications when
> installing them from my desktop (where they've worked fine)
> to my laptop.
> 
> One suggestion, which I haven't yet tried -- but will tonight --
> is that there may be a corrupted font causing the grief. I am
> going to uninstall all fonts except my system fonts and then
> try and boot it.
> 
> As with you, all my filters and presets loaded. The crash 
> appeared to happen when loading fonts.
> 
> 
> /Anthony
> 
> 
> 
> | 	I apologize for the off topic question, but I am at my 
> | wits end. When I try
> | to open photoshop 7.0, which has been working fine for the 
> | past year or so,
> | it gets to the loading brushes then whatever the next thing 
> | is I don't know,
> | because as soon as it starts to do it the program shuts down 
> | as if has run
> | into an unrecoverable error. So I uninstalled it, and 
> | reinstalled it with no
> | change in behaviour. I then tried to apply the 7.0.1 upgrade 
> | but it does not
> | recognize that photoshop is even loaded on the machine. Any 
> | help as to why
> | this might be happening would be appreciated.
> | 
> | Thank you
> 
> 
> -- 
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
> 
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
> Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 
> 
> -- 
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
> 
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
> Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 
> 


From sabaffy at mswebdevelopment.com  Mon Nov  3 19:28:49 2003
From: sabaffy at mswebdevelopment.com (Steve Abaffy)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:28:49 -0600
Subject: [thelist] OT: Saving Transparent Gifs  was Photoshop won't open
In-Reply-To: <000101c3a26e$79d4fe50$6600a8c0@gurixstation001>
Message-ID: <ECEOJNOEBBFGGFHOGEOMAEOEMMAA.sabaffy@mswebdevelopment.com>

Ok now that we have the photoshop won't open problem solved... I have a new
one. I went to save a file through the Save for Web function and made a
color transparent and said save... and I get the following error "Could not
complete this operation because an assertion has failed" of course it
doesn't tell you what assertion. I have PS loaded on a different machine and
do not have this problem on the other machine... Not sure what to look at to
see what is different on the two machines...

Again any help with this would be appreciated.



From paul at teltest.com  Mon Nov  3 19:32:07 2003
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:32:07 +1300
Subject: [thelist] OT: Saving Transparent Gifs  was Photoshop won't open
In-Reply-To: <ECEOJNOEBBFGGFHOGEOMAEOEMMAA.sabaffy@mswebdevelopment.com>
References: <ECEOJNOEBBFGGFHOGEOMAEOEMMAA.sabaffy@mswebdevelopment.com>
Message-ID: <3FA70197.6080008@teltest.com>

Steve Abaffy wrote:

>Ok now that we have the photoshop won't open problem solved... I have a new
>one. I went to save a file through the Save for Web function and made a
>color transparent and said save... and I get the following error "Could not
>complete this operation because an assertion has failed" ...
>  
>
I have PS 5.5, so this may / may not be of help

Sometimes the "save for web" function fails for me when there is not 
much RAM available on my machine.
I close some other running programs, try "save for web" again, and 
presto - file saves.

Odd, but it works everytime

-- 
 ------------------------------
	Paul Bennett						
	Internet Developer				
	Teltest Electronic Design		
 ------------------------------			
Email: paul at teltest.com				
Phone: 64 4 237 4557					
Web: http://www.teltest.com		
Wap: http://wap.teltest.com			



From sabaffy at mswebdevelopment.com  Mon Nov  3 20:17:15 2003
From: sabaffy at mswebdevelopment.com (Steve Abaffy)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:17:15 -0600
Subject: [thelist] OT: Saving Transparent Gifs  was Photoshop won't open
In-Reply-To: <3FA70197.6080008@teltest.com>
Message-ID: <ECEOJNOEBBFGGFHOGEOMAEOFMMAA.sabaffy@mswebdevelopment.com>

Tried that, closed every application down with the exception of PS was using
about 25% of the 256M of available ram and still could not save the gif...
but at least we eliminated that as a possiblility... thanks.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Paul Bennett
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 7:32 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] OT: Saving Transparent Gifs was Photoshop won't
> open
>
>
> Steve Abaffy wrote:
>
> >Ok now that we have the photoshop won't open problem solved... I
> have a new
> >one. I went to save a file through the Save for Web function and made a
> >color transparent and said save... and I get the following error
> "Could not
> >complete this operation because an assertion has failed" ...
> >
> >
> I have PS 5.5, so this may / may not be of help
>
> Sometimes the "save for web" function fails for me when there is not
> much RAM available on my machine.
> I close some other running programs, try "save for web" again, and
> presto - file saves.
>
> Odd, but it works everytime
>
> --
>  ------------------------------
> 	Paul Bennett
> 	Internet Developer
> 	Teltest Electronic Design
>  ------------------------------
> Email: paul at teltest.com
> Phone: 64 4 237 4557
> Web: http://www.teltest.com
> Wap: http://wap.teltest.com
>
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>



From brian.j.boerner at lmco.com  Mon Nov  3 20:19:50 2003
From: brian.j.boerner at lmco.com (Boerner, Brian J)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:19:50 -0500
Subject: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
Message-ID: <A24042ECFA3E4A4D9E2BF0A6654268520264AAFA@EMSS04M04.us.lmco.com>

maybe this is obvious?
windows PS users only : whenever PS is giving me a headache it's usually
related to temp files

especially if you had a crash or two on huge files, every once in a
while check it out - the temps don't get deleted unless you have a
normal quit out of the program, and the file sizes can eat monsterous
portions of RAM

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Steve Abaffy
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:21 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open


Yes that did fix it... Thanks very much... 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Aaron Holmes
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 6:56 PM
> To: lists at thinkbigideas.com; thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
> 
> 
> Good news all,
> 
> Further to my prior email:
> 
> The following has corrected all errors:
> 	
> 	1. Load Adobe Photoshop
> 	2. QUICKLY press Crtl+Alt+Shift on load to reset settings (right
> on 	load, and be fast - it took me several tries).
> 
> Everything is back to normal now! Phew...
> 
>  
> Sincerely yours, 
>  
> Aaron Holmes
> CEO
> Gurix Web Professionals
> Welland, Ontario
> Canada
>  
> Corporate e-mail: aholmes at gurix.com
>  
> V: 905.324.3241
> F: 905.734.1398
> http://www.gurix.com
>  
> Subscribe to "Balancing Today's Technology," our free, monthly,
> electronic newsletter about using technology in business by e-mail to:

> join-todaystech at gurix.com
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Baker >
> ThinkBigIdeas
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 7:32 PM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
> 
>  
> Hey There,
> 
> I've had the same problem with all my Adobe applications when
> installing them from my desktop (where they've worked fine)
> to my laptop.
> 
> One suggestion, which I haven't yet tried -- but will tonight --
> is that there may be a corrupted font causing the grief. I am
> going to uninstall all fonts except my system fonts and then
> try and boot it.
> 
> As with you, all my filters and presets loaded. The crash 
> appeared to happen when loading fonts.
> 
> 
> /Anthony
> 
> 
> 
> | 	I apologize for the off topic question, but I am at my 
> | wits end. When I try
> | to open photoshop 7.0, which has been working fine for the 
> | past year or so,
> | it gets to the loading brushes then whatever the next thing 
> | is I don't know,
> | because as soon as it starts to do it the program shuts down 
> | as if has run
> | into an unrecoverable error. So I uninstalled it, and 
> | reinstalled it with no
> | change in behaviour. I then tried to apply the 7.0.1 upgrade 
> | but it does not
> | recognize that photoshop is even loaded on the machine. Any 
> | help as to why
> | this might be happening would be appreciated.
> | 
> | Thank you
> 
> 
> -- 
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
> 
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
> Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 
> 
> -- 
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
> 
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
> Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 
> 

-- 
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 

From lists at thinkbigideas.com  Mon Nov  3 21:39:20 2003
From: lists at thinkbigideas.com (Anthony Baker > ThinkBigIdeas)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:39:20 -0800
Subject: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
In-Reply-To: <A24042ECFA3E4A4D9E2BF0A6654268520264AAFA@EMSS04M04.us.lmco.com>
Message-ID: <200311040339.hA43dVCB026304@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net>


Yeah, but does this apply if you've never even gotten a clean
start? My install of Photoshop 7.0 on my laptop never booted.
Same with Illustrator 10. 

It worked initially (in both instances), but failed following
an upgrade to Adobe Acrobat 6.0 -- at least that's what I 
think happened. Also, of course, I moved over a ton of fonts
from my desktop and copied them to my laptop.

/Anthony
 

| -----Original Message-----
| From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org 
| [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Boerner, Brian J
| Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 6:20 PM
| To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
| Subject: RE: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
| 
| maybe this is obvious?
| windows PS users only : whenever PS is giving me a headache 
| it's usually
| related to temp files
| 
| especially if you had a crash or two on huge files, every once in a
| while check it out - the temps don't get deleted unless you have a
| normal quit out of the program, and the file sizes can eat monsterous
| portions of RAM



From brian.j.boerner at lmco.com  Mon Nov  3 21:56:56 2003
From: brian.j.boerner at lmco.com (Boerner, Brian J)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:56:56 -0500
Subject: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
Message-ID: <A24042ECFA3E4A4D9E2BF0A66542685202EC9FFF@EMSS04M04.us.lmco.com>

it does - at least for PS the temp file gets created as soon as you
initiate it... & gets larger depending on prefs set for history panel
etc. to be fair it has been a b1tch only a time or two, usually when i'm
too rushed to remember the temp directory. that history panel can KILL
you, make sure to set the prefs to less than 10 steps back.

it sounds like you had another issue but I wanted to bring that to light
for infrequent Photoshop users



-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Anthony Baker >
ThinkBigIdeas
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 10:39 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: RE: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open



Yeah, but does this apply if you've never even gotten a clean
start? My install of Photoshop 7.0 on my laptop never booted.
Same with Illustrator 10. 

It worked initially (in both instances), but failed following
an upgrade to Adobe Acrobat 6.0 -- at least that's what I 
think happened. Also, of course, I moved over a ton of fonts
from my desktop and copied them to my laptop.

/Anthony
 

| -----Original Message-----
| From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org 
| [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Boerner, Brian J
| Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 6:20 PM
| To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
| Subject: RE: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
| 
| maybe this is obvious?
| windows PS users only : whenever PS is giving me a headache 
| it's usually
| related to temp files
| 
| especially if you had a crash or two on huge files, every once in a
| while check it out - the temps don't get deleted unless you have a
| normal quit out of the program, and the file sizes can eat monsterous
| portions of RAM


-- 
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 

From raskenbo at fastmail.fm  Mon Nov  3 22:02:50 2003
From: raskenbo at fastmail.fm (Ken Chase)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:02:50 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Language Detection vrs. Splash Screen
In-Reply-To: <04e901c3a22d$79234b10$ef49fea9@DELL4500>
References: <20031103162656.2922.qmail@smtp1.wedohosting.com>
	<04e901c3a22d$79234b10$ef49fea9@DELL4500>
Message-ID: <20031104040250.A39CC3FAF9@server1.messagingengine.com>


On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:11:08 -0500, "Norman Bunn"
<norman.bunn at craftedsolutions.com> said:

> Finally, I
> would avoid the splash page altogether.  Since most web sites are in
> English, it should not offend someone if it starts that way, and if it
> starts in French, I would not be offended either; I'd just look for the
> "English" option button.

Using/not using a splash page is one thing. However, being from a
bilingual country, I know that a large and vocal group would be offended
by one language being the "default" over another. It may in fact go
against Government policy.

If permitted I think that the best solution is to offer both (all)
languages on the "home" page with the option to "switch" languages on
every page.

On the other hand, It really depends on who your target audience is, who
the site is for (policy/laws) and what country  you're from.



My 2 cents,
kenbo

From lists at neoncowboy.com  Tue Nov  4 02:11:54 2003
From: lists at neoncowboy.com (John Corry)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:11:54 -1000
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
In-Reply-To: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLMELILIAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.8.1260241271.26438.thelist@lists.evolt.org>

 
> excellent.
Yes, it is.

> then he's left with a link that no longer does what he 
> expects.

And a submit button that does exactly what he expects, and an enter key that
also submits the form.

> any reason you can't just move the <form> and </form> tags in 
> order to encompass this optional link?

Yes, well...not 'can't', but there are reasons it's difficult and
impractical.

All of the pages in the site, including the admin section, are generated by
php. Common page elements (navigation, header, footer) are returned by php
functions (which work similarly to includes). I'm afraid that conditionally
writing the <form> tag on the page where it will be used (which is what will
be required to place it outside of the main content <td>) would just make
the code difficult to read and understand.

It's a lot cleaner to keep the <form> tag where there's a form.

> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > I don't need the onSubmit event.
> ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> 
> no, but when you do.  time to re-engineer.

OK, yes.
If I ever use the onSubmit handler, I'll have to reengineer.
 
> this is avoidable though.  don't use the submit() method.  
> instead, call a
> click() event on the submit button when the link is clicked.

Wait...what?
I can do:
Document.formName.submitInputButtonName.click() ? And that acts the same as
the submit button being clicked?

How's that work?

I didn't know I could do that.

John



From jeff at jeffhowden.com  Tue Nov  4 02:38:00 2003
From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:38:00 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Submitting a form with javascript
In-Reply-To: <20031104081144.18433.6215@hm-mx1b.solinus.com>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLAEOKLIAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>

john,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: John Corry [mailto:lists at neoncowboy.com]
>
> > then he's left with a link that no longer does what he
> > expects.
>
> And a submit button that does exactly what he expects,
> and an enter key that also submits the form.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

sure, but once a ui element is there and he becomes accustomed to it, it'll
be catastrophic (to him) when it stops working.  if doesn't become
catastrophic then i'd question the need for the link.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > any reason you can't just move the <form> and </form>
> > tags in order to encompass this optional link?
>
> Yes, well...not 'can't', but there are reasons it's
> difficult and impractical.
>
> All of the pages in the site, including the admin
> section, are generated by php. Common page elements
> (navigation, header, footer) are returned by php
> functions (which work similarly to includes). I'm
> afraid that conditionally writing the <form> tag on the
> page where it will be used (which is what will be
> required to place it outside of the main content <td>)
> would just make the code difficult to read and
> understand.
>
> It's a lot cleaner to keep the <form> tag where there's
> a form.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

it'd be less messy than writing some conditional code to determine whether
or not to show the link?

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> > this is avoidable though.  don't use the submit()
> > method.  instead, call a click() event on the submit
> > button when the link is clicked.
>
> Wait...what?
> I can do:
> Document.formName.submitInputButtonName.click() ? And
> that acts the same as the submit button being clicked?
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

yes, except it's "document", not "Document".

personally, i'd still question the need for the link though.

.jeff

------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist
Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/
Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/


From kris at midtempo.net  Tue Nov  4 04:05:25 2003
From: kris at midtempo.net (kris burford)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:05:25 +0000
Subject: [thelist] [mysql] condensing queries
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20031104095613.00aef1a8@mail.btinternet.com>

hiya

i've got a number of mysql queries on a page that i'm thinking i should 
condense into one.

firstly, is it a good idea to create a single, but more complex query - or 
should i stick to several simple ones?

secondly, if two queries are getting count results from different tables, 
if the answer to the above is yes, how would i go about amalgamating them?

for instance:

$sql1 = "select count(image_id) as imagecount from images where user = 
'$user' ";

and

$sql2 = "select count(link_id) as link count from links where user = '$user' ";

simply combining them as: $sql = "select count(i.image_id) as imagecount, 
count(l.link_id) as linkcount from images i, links l where i.user = '$user' 
and l.user = '$user'";

returns the value of images*links, rather than the independent values.

can someone explain what i'm doing wrong?

tia

kris


From ashiel at sportsinteraction.com  Tue Nov  4 04:52:14 2003
From: ashiel at sportsinteraction.com (Drew Shiel)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:52:14 +0000
Subject: [thelist] XSL / XPath
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031104105130.03304bb8@mail.sportsinteraction.com>


Here's a chunk of XML:

<headline>
         <furtherdetails>
                 <event id="248914" eventtypeid="94" betlive="0" 
bettingtype="Outright" numrunners="20">2003 World Cup - Outright</event>
                 <runner id="847157" handicap="0" currentprice="1.25" 
fractionprice="5/4 ">New Zealand</runner>
                 <runner id="847158" handicap="0" currentprice="1.5" 
fractionprice="3/2 ">England</runner>
                 <runner id="847159" handicap="0" currentprice="5" 
fractionprice="5/1 ">Australia</runner>
                 <runner id="847160" handicap="0" currentprice="12" 
fractionprice="12/1 ">France</runner>
         </furtherdetails>
</headline>

I'm trying to work out the XSL/XPath stuff to say "Take the first two 
runner nodes and do THIS with them", where THIS is dropping some of the 
values into a HTML table.

Anyone able to explain it? The XPath things have me baffled.

Drew.


Drew Shiel, Web Development, Sports Interaction
ashiel at sportsinteraction.com
http://www.sportsinteraction.com/
+353-1-2365701 (Direct Line) 


From and-evolt at doxdesk.com  Tue Nov  4 04:42:36 2003
From: and-evolt at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:42:36 +0000
Subject: [thelist] [mysql] condensing queries
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20031104095613.00aef1a8@mail.btinternet.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20031104095613.00aef1a8@mail.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20031104104236.GA31234@doxdesk.com>

kris burford <kris at midtempo.net> wrote:

> firstly, is it a good idea to create a single, but more complex query - or 
> should i stick to several simple ones?

If there is shared work done by both queries (eg. a subselect) there is a
case for combining them. (Trading off against code readability etc.)

This is not the case here:

> $sql1 = "select count(image_id) as imagecount from images where user = 
> '$user' ";

> $sql2 = "select count(link_id) as linkcount from links where user = 
> '$user' ";

The DBMS must go through both tables separately looking for matching user
columns; there is no optimisation where it can check both tables at once.

> simply combining them as: $sql = "select count(i.image_id) as imagecount, 
> count(l.link_id) as linkcount from images i, links l where i.user = '$user' 
> and l.user = '$user'";

> returns the value of images*links

Yes. The 'FROM x, y' clause doesn't 'add' the rows from x to the rows of y:
it forms a join where every possible row in x is joined to every possible
row in y. Normally you then restrict the join with a WHERE clause to
select only rows that are actually related. Otherwise you just end up with
an enormous (x*y) table. Then either of your 'count' clauses just total
up the number of rows in the great big join table.

Stick with the two queries, but:

> "where user = '$user' ";

Careful with that. Unless you're using magic quotes (which is in general not
a good thing at all), apostrophes and backslashes in the $user name can
cause you trouble. Look at eg. mysql_[real_]escape_string for stuff like
this.

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/

From kris at midtempo.net  Tue Nov  4 05:08:00 2003
From: kris at midtempo.net (kris burford)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:08:00 +0000
Subject: [thelist] [mysql] condensing queries
In-Reply-To: <20031104104236.GA31234@doxdesk.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20031104095613.00aef1a8@mail.btinternet.com>
 <4.2.0.58.20031104095613.00aef1a8@mail.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20031104110415.0183fdb0@mail.btinternet.com>


> > firstly, is it a good idea to create a single, but more complex query - or
> > should i stick to several simple ones?
>
>If there is shared work done by both queries (eg. a subselect) there is a
>case for combining them. (Trading off against code readability etc.)

ok, that makes a lot of sense.

> > "where user = '$user' ";
>
>Careful with that. Unless you're using magic quotes (which is in general not
>a good thing at all), apostrophes and backslashes in the $user name can
>cause you trouble. Look at eg. mysql_[real_]escape_string for stuff like
>this.

actually, this was a simplified example. in reality the $user reference is 
a base64 encoded unique string which only the database has access to. but 
thanks for the warning.

kris


From chris.price at speed-mail.co.uk  Tue Nov  4 06:14:21 2003
From: chris.price at speed-mail.co.uk (Chris Price)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:14:21 +0000
Subject: [thelist] FormMail
Message-ID: <BBCD489D.1821%chris.price@speed-mail.co.uk>

I wonder if anyone can help me.

I have attempted to install NMS FormMail Version 3.09c1 and I am getting
nowhere with the debugging. I'm not familiar with Perl or cgi scripts
generally and the error output is puzzling me.

It says there is a parse error in "use strict"
When I take that out it throws a wobbly at "use vars"
It doesn't seem to like qw() so I've replaced them with ('','')

The rest of the errors are to do with the non-user-serviceable section so
either the script is faulty or the server uses a queer setup.

No doubt you'll need more info but the (truncated) error output is:

parse error at line 11, next 2 tokens "use strict"
parse error at line 159, next token "}"
parse error at line 1127, next 2 tokens "local $SIG"
parse error at line 1127, next 2 tokens "CGI:"
parse error at line 1861, next token "}"
parse error at line 1867, next 2 tokens "CGI:"
parse error at line 2049, next token "}"
parse error at line 2055, next 2 tokens "CGI:"
parse error at line 2955, next token "}"
parse error at line 2961, next 2 tokens "CGI:"

--
Chris Price


From burgan at iprimus.com.au  Tue Nov  4 06:54:15 2003
From: burgan at iprimus.com.au (Tim Burgan)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:24:15 +1030
Subject: [thelist] hiding html source code
Message-ID: <001901c3a2d2$c1a8c180$fa5e32d2@timburgan>

hello,

i cannot provide an example - but previously, i've seen web developer (who i
hired to create a javascript function for me 2 years ago) hide the source code
on a site that he had me view the work for approval.

i.e. when i clicked 'view source' it was just a blank file - no matter what i
tried - it was hidden

i'm now learning client side and server side scripting for myself and starting
my own business. i would love to use this technique in the approval stages of
development.

does anyone know how this is done?

i'm happy for you to reply to me privately if this is a trade secret - or how
can i find more information on doing such a thing?

thank you very much for your time

tim burgan


From kverens at contactjuggling.org  Tue Nov  4 08:58:06 2003
From: kverens at contactjuggling.org (Kae Verens)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:58:06 +0000
Subject: [thelist] hiding html source code
In-Reply-To: <001901c3a2d2$c1a8c180$fa5e32d2@timburgan>
References: <001901c3a2d2$c1a8c180$fa5e32d2@timburgan>
Message-ID: <3FA7BE7E.6000004@contactjuggling.org>

Tim Burgan wrote:

>hello,
>
>i cannot provide an example - but previously, i've seen web developer (who i
>hired to create a javascript function for me 2 years ago) hide the source code
>on a site that he had me view the work for approval.
>
>i.e. when i clicked 'view source' it was just a blank file - no matter what i
>tried - it was hidden
>
>i'm now learning client side and server side scripting for myself and starting
>my own business. i would love to use this technique in the approval stages of
>development.
>
>does anyone know how this is done?
>
>i'm happy for you to reply to me privately if this is a trade secret - or how
>can i find more information on doing such a thing?
>
>thank you very much for your time
>
>tim burgan
>
>  
>
it's impossible to do that. you must have missed somrthing. please give 
us a url.

kae


From evolt at david.us-lot.org  Tue Nov  4 07:05:35 2003
From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:05:35 +0000
Subject: [thelist] hiding html source code
In-Reply-To: <001901c3a2d2$c1a8c180$fa5e32d2@timburgan>
Message-ID: <945E46CE-0EC7-11D8-8236-000A957E4F00@david.us-lot.org>


On Tuesday, Nov 4, 2003, at 12:54 Europe/London, Tim Burgan wrote:
> i cannot provide an example - but previously, i've seen web developer 
> (who i
> hired to create a javascript function for me 2 years ago) hide the 
> source code
> on a site that he had me view the work for approval.

http://dorward.me.uk/www/hide/
>
> i.e. when i clicked 'view source' it was just a blank file - no matter 
> what i
> tried - it was hidden

Did you try scrolling down?
--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/


From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Tue Nov  4 07:10:47 2003
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:10:47 -0600
Subject: [thelist] hiding html source code
Message-ID: <C8F323573C030A448F3E5A2B6FE2070B01AFAA0E@nemesis>

[snip]
does anyone know how this is done?
[/snip]

Apparently Google does - hiding HTML source code....

How to Hide Your HTML Source!
... Here's the real lowdown on hiding your source code: ... difficult
for people to view your
source code, you cannot ... disable right-click or encrypting the HTML
may be ... 
www.vortex-webdesign.com/help/hidesource.htm - 20k - Cached - Similar
pages 

Re: hide html source code? from dreamwvr on 1999-01-12 (www-html ... 
... Also try 'hiding html code' I really can't remember as it was a ...
This message : [ Message
body ]; Next message : Roberto hernandez: "Re: hide html source code?";
... 
lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ www-html/1999Jan/0106.html - 10k - Cached
- Similar pages 

Re: hide html source code? from Ian Hickson on 1999-01-11 (www- ... 
... There is no way of hiding HTML markup (not code) from users ... Next
message : Walter
Ian Kaye: "Re: hide html source code?"; Previous message :
ptorr at vantsys.com.au ... 
lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ www-html/1999Jan/0089.html - 8k - Cached -
Similar pages
[ More results from lists.w3.org ] 

How can i hide the html source code from the browser view source ... 
... can't, but depending on your goal in hiding the code ... you want
it, you could run the
HTML through a ... of other creative methods for obscuring your source,
but keep ... 
forums.devshed.com/archive/17/2001/7/2/9571 - 73k - Cached - Similar
pages 

Hiding HTML code from Browsers on selecting "view source"
Hiding HTML code from Browsers on selecting "view source". ...
Spookster. Read
Related Topics. Hiding HTML code from Browsers on selecting "view
source". ... 
forums.devshed.com/archive/1/1999/12/2/993 - 8k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from forums.devshed.com ] 

WWWBoard New Message: Message 136: Hiding Source Code
... source code yaqoob Posted at: 02/26/03 (1): Re: Hide HTML source
code Balaji Posted ... Roshan
Posted at: 01/04/03 (0): Re: Hiding Source Code TaNNkoST Posted at: 03
... 
bassocantante.com/bbs/messages/136.html - 13k - Cached - Similar pages 

WWWBoard New Message: Message 157: Re: Hiding Source Code
... you have all the source code ... then you can manually download all
pictures etc...
: sorry ;-) : : I've been asked several times about hiding html code.
... 
bassocantante.com/bbs/messages/157.html - 12k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from bassocantante.com ] 

Hidden HTML Source Code
... And now for the sermon... For the record, it's my opinion that the
practice of hiding web page source code is a misguided effort. ... 
www.drpeterjones.com/hidden/hidden.php - 13k - Cached - Similar pages 

[thelist] Hiding source code
[thelist] Hiding source code. ... the graphics wizs had created
something which was much
harder in html). ... badly that they might want to hide the source too
;-)) My ... 
lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20030602/ 141871.html - 6k - Cached
- Similar pages 

[thelist] Hiding source code
... Hiding source code; Next message: [thelist] Hiding source code; ...
The question was
about the source, the markup ... Even the crapiest html source might
display nicely ... 
lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20030526/ 141810.html - 4k - Cached
- Similar pages
[ More results from lists.evolt.org ] 

+ several more pages of answers

From simon.perry at si-designs.co.uk  Tue Nov  4 07:24:07 2003
From: simon.perry at si-designs.co.uk (Simon Perry)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:24:07 -0000
Subject: [thelist] FormMail
References: <BBCD489D.1821%chris.price@speed-mail.co.uk>
Message-ID: <014801c3a2d6$eccaf190$3100a8c0@xppro>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Price"

> I wonder if anyone can help me.
>
> I have attempted to install NMS FormMail Version 3.09c1 and I am getting
> nowhere with the debugging. I'm not familiar with Perl or cgi scripts
> generally and the error output is puzzling me.
>
> It says there is a parse error in "use strict"
> When I take that out it throws a wobbly at "use vars"
> It doesn't seem to like qw() so I've replaced them with ('','')
>
Hi Chris

I am not sure that this is the best place to ask [1] but here goes anyway.

What platform / version of Perl are you running the script on?

What platform / editors are you using to edit the script?

My guesses are that you are using windoze / notepad to edit the script and
have introduced windows hidden chars (line breaks etc) into the script that
Linux/Unix servers will not like. You may also have introduced problems
during ftp if the transfer mode is not set to ASCII.

Then there are the RTFM like comments as qw() is explained towards the
bottom of the nms readme [2].

Simon

[1] nms list and archives http://nms-cgi.sourceforge.net/support.html
[2] http://nms-cgi.sourceforge.net/formmail_compat-3.09c1/README


From Ed at ComSimplicity.com  Tue Nov  4 07:24:42 2003
From: Ed at ComSimplicity.com (Ed McCarroll)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:24:42 -0800
Subject: [thelist] hiding html source code
In-Reply-To: <001901c3a2d2$c1a8c180$fa5e32d2@timburgan>
Message-ID: <NDBBLLCLKJDNHHNPAAHHGEDNFOAA.Ed@ComSimplicity.com>

Tim,

> i.e. when i clicked 'view source' it was just a blank file - no
> matter what i tried - it was hidden

(just my $0.02)

I wouldn't invest a lot of time in this.  If the file is HTML, it
can be opened with any HTML editor, word processor, or text editor.
Turning off the "View Source" command will only serve to slow down
those who are far too under-skilled to steal your work in the first
place.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ed McCarroll                          MailTo:Ed at ComSimplicity.com
ComSimplicity                                      (310) 838-4330
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


From figural at btopenworld.com  Tue Nov  4 07:25:55 2003
From: figural at btopenworld.com (Pauline Caldwell)
Date: Tue,  4 Nov 2003 13:25:55 +0000
Subject: [thelist] hiding html source code
In-Reply-To: <001901c3a2d2$c1a8c180$fa5e32d2@timburgan>
Message-ID: <r02000200-1030-6BB2FA860ECA11D8ACF90003937456AC@[10.0.0.7]>

At 12:54 pm +1030 Tim Burgan said

>hello,
>
>i cannot provide an example - but previously, i've seen web
developer (who i
>hired to create a javascript function for me 2 years ago) hide
the source code
>on a site that he had me view the work for approval.

The definitive answer?

http://lemurzone.com/edit/converse53.htm

Pauline

---------------

?The trouble with the French is that they don?t have a word for
?entrepreneur??. -President George W. Bush.

From Brian at hondaswap.com  Tue Nov  4 07:45:42 2003
From: Brian at hondaswap.com (Brian Cummiskey)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:45:42 -0500
Subject: [thelist] hiding html source code
In-Reply-To: <r02000200-1030-6BB2FA860ECA11D8ACF90003937456AC@[10.0.0.7]>
Message-ID: <000a01c3a2d9$f3f5efd0$e6dffea9@breal>

>> The definitive answer?
>> http://lemurzone.com/edit/converse53.htm

:D
"4. Destroy the harddrive by using a 18 LB sledge hammer."

Sadly, that is true.

While it can be encrypted, and can be "hidden", as said, its only a
speed bump.  You can't hide what something has to read to display to you
in the first place.



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  4 07:58:44 2003
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:58:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [thelist] hiding html source code
In-Reply-To: <r02000200-1030-6BB2FA860ECA11D8ACF90003937456AC@[10.0.0.7]>
Message-ID: <20031104135844.35701.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>

--- At 12:54 pm +1030 Tim Burgan said
> > i've seen web developer... hide the source code
> > on a site that he had me view the work for approval.

--- Pauline Caldwell <figural at btopenworld.com> wrote:
> The definitive answer?
> 
> http://lemurzone.com/edit/converse53.htm

+1

Why would you want to hide your source? What is so unique about your
HTML source that you feel the need to hide it? Honestly, the answer
is nothing. There is nothing so unique or special about ANY - ANY
HTML code that it should be hidden.

The best know HTML authors on the net that truly do cutting edge work
- Douglas Bowman comes to mind - have their source freely available
to anyone who wants it. In fact, they encourage it.

If this is a boss directing you to do this, I would attempt to
educate him on the matter - mainly the point that there isn't
anything worth protecting in the HTML.

I've seen sites that have done it in IE. All I do is open it in
Mozilla/NS and bang, there it is. There are plenty of other ways to
get it. 

Tom

=====
http://www.pixelmech.com/ :: Web Development Services
http://www.DMXzone.com/ :: JavaScript Author / Every Friday!
http://www.thywordistruth.net/ :: Eternal Life

"I'll ho ho and ha ha you!" (Daffy Duck)

From psm2713 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  4 08:07:35 2003
From: psm2713 at hotmail.com (Ken Moore)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:07:35 -0700
Subject: [thelist] [mysql] condensing queries
Message-ID: <BAY9-F19suPX3qnMX1700003e1d@hotmail.com>

Hi all,

You wrote:

>firstly, is it a good idea to create a single, but more complex query - or 
>should i stick to several simple ones?



As a database programmer of 20 years, I can tell you that KISS is the plan 
to follow. Keep it as simple as possible for several reasons.

1.  Two or three simple queries can completed in less time than complex 
queries. In MS SQL, for example, a badky designed query can take many, many 
times as long as the shorter queries to do the same thing.

2.  You can combine or reuse the simple queries in different ways.

3.  Some progammers are like stunt drivers (or C++ programmers) in that they 
think the more complicated, the more un-readable, the closer to an accident 
you can come without havint one, the better you are. I do not agree.

4.  6 months from now, you or someone else may want to read it and actually 
understand it.

Ken - Who has misled myself too often.

_________________________________________________________________
Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over 
limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es


From psm2713 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  4 08:15:27 2003
From: psm2713 at hotmail.com (Ken Moore)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:15:27 -0700
Subject: [thelist] Marketer/Marketing Advice
Message-ID: <BAY9-F11Vn20lbhsKd600003f98@hotmail.com>




Dan Romanchik wrote

>Finding salespeople is hard.
You got that right.

>What you have to do is sell (there's that four-letter word again) someone 
>that the potential you are
>offering is worth the risk they'll have to take.
I think I can do that

>Let us know how it goes...
I got some off list answers and will respond in the next day or two.



>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ken Moore" <psm2713 at hotmail.com>
>To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:41 AM
>Subject: [thelist] Marketer/Marketing Advice
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I need some advice marketing advice. I have developed some website-based
> > services for insurance agents. The agents that have the services think
>that
> > they are great and that they will very much help the bottom line.
> >
> > The problem is that I cannot sell foot warmers to Eskimos. I need 
>someone
>to
> > do the marketing. There is a very great income potential for the right
> > company or person.
> >
> > Where do I go to look for someone or some company that can do that?
> >
> > You can answer either on or off of the list at psm2713 at hotmail.com
> >
> > TIA,
> >
> > Ken
> >

_________________________________________________________________
Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead?  Your old favorites are always 
playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free! 
http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio


From seyon at delime.com  Tue Nov  4 08:35:06 2003
From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:35:06 -0400
Subject: [thelist] hiding html source code
In-Reply-To: <001901c3a2d2$c1a8c180$fa5e32d2@timburgan>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20031104102937.00a75120@mail.delime.com>

Message from Tim Burgan (11/4/2003 11:24 PM)

>i'm now learning client side and server side scripting for myself and starting
>my own business. i would love to use this technique in the approval stages of
>development.

In the "approval" stages of development, consider doing only 
screenshots/mock up images in photoshop rather than actual coding. Why 
start writing code before you get paid in the first place?

If your response is "the clients need to click around to see how things 
work", do multiple screenshots and walk them through it like a storyboard.

I'm sure you are aware of that running a business requires its own special 
set of skills quite separate from client side and server side scripting. A 
great book you can maybe take a look at is The Geek's Guide to Internet 
Business Success by Bob Schmidt.

Good luck.

regards.
-marc

--
Carnival 2003 in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com
http://www.playyuhself.com/

From Ben_Gustafson at lionbridge.com  Tue Nov  4 09:22:35 2003
From: Ben_Gustafson at lionbridge.com (Ben Gustafson)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:22:35 -0500 
Subject: [thelist] Re: Language Detection vrs. Splash Screen
Message-ID: <23CCDFA7793EEB4EBFBA56EE4044A9BB02D2CD4D@FRA-FORMULA>


> Using/not using a splash page is one thing. However, being 
> from a bilingual country, I know that a large and vocal group 
> would be offended by one language being the "default" over 
> another. 

Huh? Think about that for a second. How exactly would not having a default
language work? If a site was in English and French, and your browser
language preference was set to German, which language would be displayed?
Esperanto? None?
I think the "large and vocal group" needs to get over itself.

> It may in fact go against Government policy.

Same for the Government.

--Ben

From jpeth at synapsedesign.com  Mon Nov  3 17:30:59 2003
From: jpeth at synapsedesign.com (J. Anthony Peth)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:30:59 -0800
Subject: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
In-Reply-To: <ECEOJNOEBBFGGFHOGEOMOEOAMMAA.sabaffy@mswebdevelopment.com>
Message-ID: <BBCC2533.80CB%jpeth@synapsedesign.com>

Have you done anything different with fonts lately?

Tony


> From: Steve Abaffy <sabaffy at mswebdevelopment.com>
> Reply-To: "thelist at lists.evolt.org" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:31:48 -0600
> To: Java <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
> Subject: [thelist] OT: Photoshop won't open
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I apologize for the off topic question, but I am at my wits end. When I try
> to open photoshop 7.0, which has been working fine for the past year or so,
> it gets to the loading brushes then whatever the next thing is I don't know,
> because as soon as it starts to do it the program shuts down as if has run
> into an unrecoverable error. So I uninstalled it, and reinstalled it with no
> change in behaviour. I then tried to apply the 7.0.1 upgrade but it does not
> recognize that photoshop is even loaded on the machine. Any help as to why
> this might be happening would be appreciated.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> 
> -- 
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
> 
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


From r.mulder at mta.nl  Tue Nov  4 05:21:47 2003
From: r.mulder at mta.nl (Roel Mulder)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:21:47 +0100
Subject: [thelist] History of domain registration
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031104121032.00a73f30@mta.nl>

Hi all,
In januari 2003 we registered a .com domain. Yesterday we received an 
e-mail of someone claiming they registered it prior to ourselves and 
wanting to open up negotiations towards reclaiming it.

 > Unfortunately due to techincial problems between the original registrar 
(corp1)
 > and corp2 Ltd we were unable to reregister the domain when it was due for
 > renewal and it now seems that you have registered the domain.

Tough for them.
Question : Is there a place where I can check their claim of the domainname 
being registered to them prior our registration?

The domain has since januari been directed to one of our websites, it 
doesn't generate tarffic worth mentioning, we haven't received any mail 
(spam included) so _if_ they ever had it registered they haven't used it. 
Google's cash won't help.

Anyone?

Thanks,
Roel Mulder


From Jon.Kiddy at RoswellPark.org  Tue Nov  4 09:44:11 2003
From: Jon.Kiddy at RoswellPark.org (Kiddy, Jon)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:44:11 -0500
Subject: [thelist] History of domain registration
Message-ID: <97101976F8A044468CA74FE11883B90E031A8511@VISTA.roswellpark.org>

>Question : Is there a place where I can check their claim of the
domainname 
>being registered to them prior our registration?
>Roel Mulder

Not sure how you would verify this.
But you could try the "WayBackMachine":
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.yahoo.com

-Jon

From sam at sam-i-am.com  Tue Nov  4 09:52:07 2003
From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam-I-Am)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:52:07 -0600
Subject: [thelist] HomeSite 5/Access Violation?
In-Reply-To: <20031028185235.60059.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20031028185235.60059.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3FA7CB27.2090102@sam-i-am.com>

I've started getting a similar error recently as I've been using 
Timbuktu to work remotely (our x-browser test station is the other side 
of the room and it saves me running back and forth). Any time I tried to 
open a file or replace - or apparently anything that would cause the 
creation of a new window - I would get the error. Interestingly, 
yesterday I got the same and closed the application remotely, and 
started it up again (also remotely) and never had the problem again.

I'm running 4.5 on win2k.

Sam



>>But despite all of that you will have to poke my eyes out, steal my
>>machines and lock me in a small room before you will pry Homesite 
>>out of my hands.
> 
> 
> LOL - Amen! I'm still using it with the error, just need to find some
> way to fix it.

Likewise. Even limping along its a tool to be reckoned with.


From psm2713 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  4 09:54:24 2003
From: psm2713 at hotmail.com (Ken Moore)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:54:24 -0700
Subject: [thelist] History of domain registration
Message-ID: <BAY9-F25mBP8Z7zID9700004e4e@hotmail.com>

Hi Roel,

Roel Mulder wrote:

>Hi all,
>In januari 2003 we registered a .com domain. Yesterday we received an 
>e-mail of someone claiming they registered it prior to ourselves and 
>wanting to open up negotiations towards reclaiming it.
>
>
>Tough for them.

>The domain has since januari been directed to one of our websites, it 
>doesn't generate tarffic worth mentioning, we haven't received any mail 
>(spam included) so _if_ they ever had it registered they haven't used it. 
>Google's cash won't help.
>
>Anyone?
>

DO NOT GIVE IN ON THIS.

Unfollowed intentions on their part should not cost you. Even if everything 
they say is true, it is not your problem. Besides, maybe they just want to 
get jump on name recognition by using your site. If they ever had it, they 
obviously did not use it.

Ken

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays!  Snappier product search... 
http://shopping.msn.com


From contact at stewartandcompany.net  Tue Nov  4 09:54:48 2003
From: contact at stewartandcompany.net (Stewart & Company)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:54:48 -0500
Subject: [thelist] History of domain registration
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20031104121032.00a73f30@mta.nl>
Message-ID: <000201c3a2eb$faa64200$f8a5aec7@Will>

If I were you, I would pursue selling the domain to them.  If they are a
large company, you could potentially earn a large amount of money.  

If the domain is more important to you than the cash, tell them you are
not interested.  They have no contractual right to the domain name and,
besides plaguing you with emails, can do nothing legally to reclaim it.

HTH,
Will

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Roel Mulder
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 6:22 AM
To: The List
Subject: [thelist] History of domain registration

Hi all,
In januari 2003 we registered a .com domain. Yesterday we received an 
e-mail of someone claiming they registered it prior to ourselves and 
wanting to open up negotiations towards reclaiming it.

 > Unfortunately due to techincial problems between the original
registrar 
(corp1)
 > and corp2 Ltd we were unable to reregister the domain when it was due
for
 > renewal and it now seems that you have registered the domain.

Tough for them.
Question : Is there a place where I can check their claim of the
domainname 
being registered to them prior our registration?

The domain has since januari been directed to one of our websites, it 
doesn't generate tarffic worth mentioning, we haven't received any mail 
(spam included) so _if_ they ever had it registered they haven't used
it. 
Google's cash won't help.

Anyone?

Thanks,
Roel Mulder

-- 
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Nov  4 10:04:38 2003
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:04:38 -0800
Subject: [thelist] History of domain registration
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20031104121032.00a73f30@mta.nl>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031104080043.026cb0d0@baratta.com>

At 03:21 AM 11/4/2003, Roel Mulder wrote:
>Hi all,
>In januari 2003 we registered a .com domain. Yesterday we received an 
>e-mail of someone claiming they registered it prior to ourselves and 
>wanting to open up negotiations towards reclaiming it.
>
> > Unfortunately due to techincial problems between the original registrar 
> (corp1)
> > and corp2 Ltd we were unable to reregister the domain when it was due for
> > renewal and it now seems that you have registered the domain.
>
>Tough for them.
>Question : Is there a place where I can check their claim of the 
>domainname being registered to them prior our registration?
>
>The domain has since januari been directed to one of our websites, it 
>doesn't generate tarffic worth mentioning, we haven't received any mail 
>(spam included) so _if_ they ever had it registered they haven't used it. 
>Google's cash won't help.

It can take 3 to 6 months for domains to be re-released, so they were 
pretty lame about getting it back. Most registrars charge about $100 to get 
a domain off the "pending" list, if you miss the renewal. Even then you 
have about 30 days after expiration to renew, sometimes 60 days. Plus they 
are contacting you 10 months after you purchased the domain?? So their 
excuse is pretty weak.

You can try the internet archive, aka the internet way back machine to see 
if there was any content previously at the domain.

         http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

If you can get a good price for it and have not integrated the new domain 
name into your marketing materials, I'd say sell it!
---
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."


From roselli at earthlink.net  Tue Nov  4 10:00:01 2003
From: roselli at earthlink.net (aardvark)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:00:01 -0500
Subject: [thelist] XSL / XPath
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031104105130.03304bb8@mail.sportsinteraction.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.9.1260241272.26438.thelist@lists.evolt.org>

drew... i don't have time to write up the code that you'd need, but 
take a look at the count() or position() functions...

while looping (for-each), do a count on the nodes where the 
count()/position() is less than or equal to 2...

that help at all?

> From: Drew Shiel <ashiel at sportsinteraction.com>
[...]
> <headline>
>          <furtherdetails>
>                  <event id="248914" eventtypeid="94" betlive="0"
> bettingtype="Outright" numrunners="20">2003 World Cup -
> Outright</event>
>                  <runner id="847157" handicap="0" currentprice="1.25"
> fractionprice="5/4 ">New Zealand</runner>
>                  <runner id="847158" handicap="0" currentprice="1.5"
> fractionprice="3/2 ">England</runner>
>                  <runner id="847159" handicap="0" currentprice="5"
> fractionprice="5/1 ">Australia</runner>
>                  <runner id="847160" handicap="0" currentprice="12"
> fractionprice="12/1 ">France</runner>
>          </furtherdetails>
> </headline>
> 
> I'm trying to work out the XSL/XPath stuff to say "Take the first two
> runner nodes and do THIS with them", where THIS is dropping some of
> the values into a HTML table.

--
my latest book project:
  Web Graphics for Non-Designers
  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1590591712/evoltorg02-20
  ISBN: 1590591712

From r.mulder at mta.nl  Tue Nov  4 09:59:18 2003
From: r.mulder at mta.nl (Roel Mulder)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 16:59:18 +0100
Subject: [thelist] History of domain registration
In-Reply-To: <97101976F8A044468CA74FE11883B90E031A8511@VISTA.roswellpark
 .org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031104165719.00a73dc0@212.204.230.40>

At 10:44 04-11-2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >Question : Is there a place where I can check their claim of the
>domainname
> >being registered to them prior our registration?
> >Roel Mulder
>
>Not sure how you would verify this.
>But you could try the "WayBackMachine":
>http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.yahoo.com
>
>-Jon

Nope, as they say:

<quote>
   Sorry, no matches.
</quote>

Roel


From hassan at webtuitive.com  Tue Nov  4 10:19:27 2003
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:19:27 -0800
Subject: [thelist] XSL / XPath
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031104105130.03304bb8@mail.sportsinteraction.com>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031104105130.03304bb8@mail.sportsinteraction.com>
Message-ID: <3FA7D18F.9000009@webtuitive.com>

Drew Shiel wrote:

> <headline>
>         <furtherdetails>
>                 <event id="248914" eventtypeid="94" betlive="0" 
> bettingtype="Outright" numrunners="20">2003 World Cup - Outright</event>
>                 <runner id="847157" handicap="0" currentprice="1.25" 
> fractionprice="5/4 ">New Zealand</runner>
>                 <runner id="847158" handicap="0" currentprice="1.5" 
> fractionprice="3/2 ">England</runner>
>                 <runner id="847159" handicap="0" currentprice="5" 
> fractionprice="5/1 ">Australia</runner>
>                 <runner id="847160" handicap="0" currentprice="12" 
> fractionprice="12/1 ">France</runner>
>         </furtherdetails>
> </headline>
> 
> I'm trying to work out the XSL/XPath stuff to say "Take the first two 
> runner nodes and do THIS with them", where THIS is dropping some of the 
> values into a HTML table.

Saving your sample data as `wtf.xml`, here's a quick JSP/JSTL snippet
to illustrate. This static approach is quick'n'dirty and obviously
doesn't give you the flexibility to, say, grab the top /three/ by just
changing a variable. That said,

<c:set var="doc"><c:import url="wtf.xml"/></c:set> <!-- load the data -->
<x:parse xml="${doc}" var="xml"/>                  <!-- parse the data -->

<table rules="all">                                <!-- output the data -->
<tr>
<td><x:out select="$xml/headline/furtherdetails/runner[1]/text()"/></td>
<td><x:out select="$xml/headline/furtherdetails/runner[1]/@id"/></td>
<td><x:out select="$xml/headline/furtherdetails/runner[1]/@handicap"/></td>
<td><x:out select="$xml/headline/furtherdetails/runner[1]/@currentprice"/></td>
<td><x:out select="$xml/headline/furtherdetails/runner[1]/@fractionprice"/></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><x:out select="$xml/headline/furtherdetails/runner[2]/text()"/></td>
<td><x:out select="$xml/headline/furtherdetails/runner[2]/@id"/></td>
<td><x:out select="$xml/headline/furtherdetails/runner[2]/@handicap"/></td>
<td><x:out select="$xml/headline/furtherdetails/runner[2]/@currentprice"/></td>
<td><x:out select="$xml/headline/furtherdetails/runner[2]/@fractionprice"/></td>
</table>

<c:set>,<c:import>,<x:parse>,<x:out> are JSP taglibs markup; you'll
have to adapt the XPath statements to your language of choice.

HTH!
-- 
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.




From pete.prodoehl at cygnusinteractive.com  Tue Nov  4 10:19:33 2003
From: pete.prodoehl at cygnusinteractive.com (Pete Prodoehl)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:19:33 -0600
Subject: [thelist] png in IE
In-Reply-To: <3FA68D4D.8000508@f2o.org>
References: <000f01c3a228$8d4f4580$03a8a8c0@marcusnb>
	<3FA68D4D.8000508@f2o.org>
Message-ID: <3FA7D195.7020304@cygnusinteractive.com>

liorean wrote:
> Marcus Andersson wrote:
> 
>> I have these icons in png format and want to make use of them in IE. The
>> icons have transparent backgrounds that works nicely in
>> Mozilla/Photoshop. When I use them in IE I get this ugly grey background
>> instead of the transparent one.  
>> Should I do anything special to make it work or should I consider to
>> convert the icons to gif?
> 
> 
> There's a number of things you could do.
[snip]

You could ask for proper PNG Support in Internet Explorer for Windows, 
like over 11,000 others have done...

   <http://www.petitiononline.com/msiepng/>

Who knows? Maybe in 2006 IE/Win will support PNG's properly!

Pete







From evolt_org at striderweb.com  Tue Nov  4 10:22:56 2003
From: evolt_org at striderweb.com (Stephen Rider)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:22:56 -0600
Subject: [thelist] History of domain registration
In-Reply-To: <BAY9-F25mBP8Z7zID9700004e4e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <25B07959-0EE3-11D8-8849-000A957FB6EA@striderweb.com>

These guys aren't Nigerian Businessmen, are they?  ;)

You could, of course, offer to sell it to them for a nice price.  You 
said it wasn't producing any traffic; they said they wanted to 
negotiate.  So negotiate.

Or if you don't want to sell, ignore them.

Steve


On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 09:54  AM, Ken Moore wrote:

> Hi Roel,
>
> Roel Mulder wrote:
>
>> In januari 2003 we registered a .com domain. Yesterday we received an 
>> e-mail of someone claiming they registered it prior to ourselves and 
>> wanting to open up negotiations towards reclaiming it.
>
> DO NOT GIVE IN ON THIS.
>
> Unfollowed intentions on their part should not cost you. Even if 
> everything they say is true, it is not your problem. Besides, maybe 
> they just want to get jump on name recognition by using your site. If 
> they ever had it, they obviously did not use it.


From gaelwolf at waypt.com  Tue Nov  4 10:29:59 2003
From: gaelwolf at waypt.com (Norman MacLeod)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:29:59 -0800
Subject: [thelist] History of domain registration
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20031104121032.00a73f30@mta.nl>
Message-ID: <200311041630.hA4GUMV4008860@svs23.virtualis.com>

Roel -

Be very careful with this one...

When a domain name expires, there's a long grace period between the time of
expiration and the time that the domain is actually released to the public
for new registration.  Typically, a domain registrar will start notifying
the domain registrant that the domain is up for renewal two or three months
before the expiration date.  If the registrant doesn't pay their annual fee
prior to the domain's expiration date, the registrar will inactivate the
domain, usually two days to as much as a month after the expiration date.
Then follows a six-eight week grace period where the domain is in suspended
status, but can be reactivated by the registrant simply paying their annual
fee.

So the "old" registrant, if they ever registered the domain, had somewhere
between at least two to five months to pay their annual fee.

You could contact ICANN at their site to see if they will provide you with
the registration history for the domain, but I don't know if they will
provide that information to you unless you are placed in arbitration in
regard to the name.

If your domain name does enter the dispute process, you will need to prove
that the name is connected to some form of business that you are doing, that
you are not infringing on a registered trade or service mark owned by the
business wanting to claim the name from you, and that you are not using the
domain in a manner that damages the other company's name.

Another thing you can do is contact the company that claims to have
registered the name in the past and require them to provide you with a
photocopy of the last domain name registration invoice and the registrar's
confirmation that they paid for their registration.  If they do provide
these documents to you, then contact the registrar to request confirmation
that the documents are verifiable, and that the other company did, indeed,
have the name registered at one time.

	Norman


 

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Roel Mulder
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 3:22 AM
To: The List
Subject: [thelist] History of domain registration

Hi all,
In januari 2003 we registered a .com domain. Yesterday we received an e-mail
of someone claiming they registered it prior to ourselves and wanting to
open up negotiations towards reclaiming it.

 > Unfortunately due to techincial problems between the original registrar
(corp1)
 > and corp2 Ltd we were unable to reregister the domain when it was due for
> renewal and it now seems that you have registered the domain.

Tough for them.
Question : Is there a place where I can check their claim of the domainname
being registered to them prior our registration?

The domain has since januari been directed to one of our websites, it
doesn't generate tarffic worth mentioning, we haven't received any mail
(spam included) so _if_ they ever had it registered they haven't used it. 
Google's cash won't help.

Anyone?

Thanks,
Roel Mulder

--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives
of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From ashiel at sportsinteraction.com  Tue Nov  4 10:43:20 2003
From: ashiel at sportsinteraction.com (Drew Shiel)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 16:43:20 +0000
Subject: [thelist] XSL / XPath
In-Reply-To: <200311041624593.SM04104@acornparenting.org>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031104105130.03304bb8@mail.sportsinteraction.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031104164122.03335e40@mail.sportsinteraction.com>

At 11:00 04/11/2003 -0500, aardvark wrote:

   I found it just before this came in. What I needed was:

   <xsl:apply-templates select="./headline/furtherdetails/runner[position() 
&lt;= 2]"></xsl:apply-templates>

   and

   <xsl:template match="runner[position() &lt;= 2]">
   STUFF HERE
   </xsl:template>

   And it works. :)

   Cheers,
   Drew.


>drew... i don't have time to write up the code that you'd need, but
>take a look at the count() or position() functions...
>
>while looping (for-each), do a count on the nodes where the
>count()/position() is less than or equal to 2...
>
>that help at all?
>
> > From: Drew Shiel <ashiel at sportsinteraction.com>
>[...]
> > <headline>
> >          <furtherdetails>
> >                  <event id="248914" eventtypeid="94" betlive="0"
> > bettingtype="Outright" numrunners="20">2003 World Cup -
> > Outright</event>
> >                  <runner id="847157" handicap="0" currentprice="1.25"
> > fractionprice="5/4 ">New Zealand</runner>
> >                  <runner id="847158" handicap="0" currentprice="1.5"
> > fractionprice="3/2 ">England</runner>
> >                  <runner id="847159" handicap="0" currentprice="5"
> > fractionprice="5/1 ">Australia</runner>
> >                  <runner id="847160" handicap="0" currentprice="12"
> > fractionprice="12/1 ">France</runner>
> >          </furtherdetails>
> > </headline>
> >
> > I'm trying to work out the XSL/XPath stuff to say "Take the first two
> > runner nodes and do THIS with them", where THIS is dropping some of
> > the values into a HTML table.
>
>--
>my latest book project:
>   Web Graphics for Non-Designers
>   http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1590591712/evoltorg02-20
>   ISBN: 1590591712
>--
>* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
>http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
>For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
>and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
>Workers of the Web, evolt !


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  4 10:48:35 2003
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:48:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [thelist] tracking a url
Message-ID: <20031104164835.86800.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi folks,

I have a situation where a parent company web site is linking to some
of its own company web sites that are other brands. So for example,
on web site "Main" we have this link:

<a href="www.companyA.com">Find out more!</a>

There are about 4 of these, each one different. The issue is the Main
company wants to track how many people click this link and where they
go. I believe we have Web Trends running for the Main site.

They suggested having a 'redirect' page that passes the link of the
company ("companyA") the user clicked. So an asp that gets that value
in the URL, where it can be tracked, then using a redirect to send
them to that page.

Is it me or is this really stupid? Shouldn't web trends be able to
track that the above HREF was an exit link? I'm not up to speed on
web trends yet but I know its fairly robust. 

The key is they want to know how many times somebody clicked that
link and left the site - and *which* site they went to. It seems to
me this redirect page is unnecessary... what do you all think?

Tom

=====
http://www.pixelmech.com/ :: Web Development Services
http://www.DMXzone.com/ :: JavaScript Author / Every Friday!
http://www.thywordistruth.net/ :: Eternal Life

"I'll ho ho and ha ha you!" (Daffy Duck)

From marcan at home.se  Tue Nov  4 11:09:41 2003
From: marcan at home.se (Marcus Andersson)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:09:41 +0100
Subject: SV: [thelist] XSL / XPath
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031104105130.03304bb8@mail.sportsinteraction.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c3a2f6$6fb5dd30$03a8a8c0@marcusnb>

I provide an example below. A comment about your xpath question is
placed in your code.

/Marcus

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<xsl:stylesheet xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform"
version="1.0">
  
  <xsl:template match="headline">
    <table border="1">      
      <!-- You want to get the two first elements. You can get the
position of the element
           with the position() xpath function and use it inside a
predicate rule. It starts at position 1
           so if you want the first two you select the ones with
position less than 3 -->
      <xsl:apply-templates select="furtherdetails/runner[position() &lt;
3]"/>
    </table>
  </xsl:template>
  
  <xsl:template match="runner">
    <tr>
      <td><xsl:value-of select="@id"/></td>
      <td><xsl:value-of select="@handicap"/></td>
      <td><xsl:value-of select="text()"/></td>
    </tr>
  </xsl:template>
  
</xsl:stylesheet>



-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Fr?n: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] F?r Drew Shiel
Skickat: den 4 november 2003 11:52
Till: thelist at lists.evolt.org
?mne: [thelist] XSL / XPath



Here's a chunk of XML:

<headline>
         <furtherdetails>
                 <event id="248914" eventtypeid="94" betlive="0" 
bettingtype="Outright" numrunners="20">2003 World Cup - Outright</event>
                 <runner id="847157" handicap="0" currentprice="1.25" 
fractionprice="5/4 ">New Zealand</runner>
                 <runner id="847158" handicap="0" currentprice="1.5" 
fractionprice="3/2 ">England</runner>
                 <runner id="847159" handicap="0" currentprice="5" 
fractionprice="5/1 ">Australia</runner>
                 <runner id="847160" handicap="0" currentprice="12" 
fractionprice="12/1 ">France</runner>
         </furtherdetails>
</headline>

I'm trying to work out the XSL/XPath stuff to say "Take the first two 
runner nodes and do THIS with them", where THIS is dropping some of the 
values into a HTML table.

Anyone able to explain it? The XPath things have me baffled.

Drew.


Drew Shiel, Web Development, Sports Interaction
ashiel at sportsinteraction.com http://www.sportsinteraction.com/
+353-1-2365701 (Direct Line)

-- 
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


From Tim.Kuhn at gettyimages.com  Tue Nov  4 11:12:53 2003
From: Tim.Kuhn at gettyimages.com (Tim Kuhn (temp))
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:12:53 -0800 
Subject: [thelist] RE: XSL / XPath 
Message-ID: <05B9FC51BB35C247859214C18073CCB90649F8@seafrexchrestor.sea.amer.gettywan.com>


I think that this is what you want, this will select the inner-text if that is what you want: <body>

<xsl:template match="headline">
	<xsl:apply-templates select="/furtherdetails/runner[1]" /> </xsl:template>

<xsl:template match="headline">
	<xsl:apply-templates select="/furtherdetails/runner[2]" /> </xsl:template>

</body>

If you an attribute then:
<xsl:apply-templates select="/furtherdetails/runner[1]@id" /> 
That will give you the first runner nodes id. Careful it is all case sensitive.

A good link for XPath is http://www.zvon.org/xxl/XPathTutorial/General/examples.html 

I hope that helps!

-----Original Message-----

Here's a chunk of XML:

<headline>
         <furtherdetails>
                 <event id="248914" eventtypeid="94" betlive="0" 
bettingtype="Outright" numrunners="20">2003 World Cup - Outright</event>
                 <runner id="847157" handicap="0" currentprice="1.25" 
fractionprice="5/4 ">New Zealand</runner>
                 <runner id="847158" handicap="0" currentprice="1.5" 
fractionprice="3/2 ">England</runner>
                 <runner id="847159" handicap="0" currentprice="5" 
fractionprice="5/1 ">Australia</runner>
                 <runner id="847160" handicap="0" currentprice="12" 
fractionprice="12/1 ">France</runner>
         </furtherdetails>
</headline>

I'm trying to work out the XSL/XPath stuff to say "Take the first two 
runner nodes and do THIS with them", where THIS is dropping some of the 
values into a HTML table.

Anyone able to explain it? The XPath things have me baffled.


------------------------------




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From robert at thewhitehousegroup.com  Tue Nov  4 10:37:01 2003
From: robert at thewhitehousegroup.com (Robert)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:37:01 -0500
Subject: [thelist] ASP question - User List Update
Message-ID: <BBCD3FDD.22CC%robert@thewhitehousegroup.com>

I have a question regarding a chat page that I have in it's final stages of
completion. It is .asp driven, and I'm pleased with the way it works, except
for one feature that wont seem to work properly. The page keeps a simple
text log in html code of each user who signs onto the page. I want it set up
so that when a user unloads the page, a javascript onUnload command launches
a final .asp alerting the user that they have logged off the page.
Additionally, the script will delete that particular user from the user log.
I use cookies to keep track of the user and their color selection, but for
some reason the code I'm using is deleting ALL users from the user database.
HELP! The following is the script I'm trying to use for the "logoff":

<%

'Set Constants
Const ForReading = 1, ForWriting = 2, ForAppending = 8

'find out this particular users name
name=request.Cookies("name")

'find out this particular users Color
color=request.Cookies("color")

'Open the user database into memory
Set objFS = Server.CreateObject ("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
set objFile = objFS.GetFile(server.mappath("users.dat"))
set textstream = objFile.OpenAsTextStream(ForReading, -2)

'set up the loop that will compare the files and set variables
do while not textstream.AtEndOfStream
singleline = textstream.ReadLine
user=singleline

'Comparison line that works no matter the user name or color
if singleline="<font face=Verdana size=2 color=""& color &"">"& name &"<br>"
then
user=" "
end if
set relog = objFS.CreateTextFile(server.mappath("users.dat"), true)
relog.WriteLine(""& user &"")
loop

'close the file
textstream.close
relog.close

%>

<font face=Verdana size=2 color=000000>User Logged Off Of Chat Server</font>


I'm VERY new to .asp (less than a week working with it as the code above
probably shows in it's sloppiness!) and have no idea why this isn't working
properly. Another route I've tried is simply doing a line by line and
dumping each line into a variable that would then be written all at once,
but I'm fuzzy on the way .asp allows concatenation of strings vs. numeric
values.

Thanks for ANY help!

~Qixsilver 

From aaron at aaroncole.com  Tue Nov  4 11:26:45 2003
From: aaron at aaroncole.com (Aaron Cole)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:26:45 -0800
Subject: [thelist] AgoraCart?
Message-ID: <104D707F-0EEC-11D8-9672-000A959D9FBC@aaroncole.com>

Has anyone here had experience using AgoraCart (www.agoracart.com)?  
Good/Bad?

It's a freeware shopping cart system that I've been asked to research.

TIA,
Aaron


From and-evolt at doxdesk.com  Tue Nov  4 11:51:37 2003
From: and-evolt at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:51:37 +0000
Subject: [thelist] tracking a url
In-Reply-To: <20031104164835.86800.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20031104164835.86800.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20031104175137.GA1993@doxdesk.com>

Tom Dell'Aringa <pixelmech at yahoo.com> wrote:

> They suggested having a 'redirect' page that passes the link of the
> company ("companyA") the user clicked.

This is a common (albeit rather irritating) practice, yes.

> Is it me or is this really stupid? Shouldn't web trends be able to
> track that the above HREF was an exit link?

Not really, no. Only incoming hits are counted and available for the log
analyser to play with. An analyser like WebTrends can say what page was
the last thing a user viewed on your site (by using cookies and/or
Intelli-Guessing[TM]) but not whether that page was left due to a closed
window, followed link, or something else.

The obvious workaround is to run a log analyser on the companyA site and
see how many referrals you get from the main site.

> It seems to me this redirect page is unnecessary...

If Management insist on having the statistic without running log analysers
on the other sites, and don't care about the (minor) inconvenience it places
on users, I'm afraid something like this is necessary. There are a few other
ways to do it, for example having a plain link but with a bit of onclick
JavaScript that sends a request back to the main server through a web bug
or such.

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/

From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Nov  4 12:12:59 2003
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:12:59 -0800
Subject: [thelist] tracking a url
In-Reply-To: <20031104164835.86800.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031104101127.026d4a08@baratta.com>

At 08:48 AM 11/4/2003, Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:

>They suggested having a 'redirect' page that passes the link of the
>company ("companyA") the user clicked. So an asp that gets that value
>in the URL, where it can be tracked, then using a redirect to send
>them to that page.
>
>Is it me or is this really stupid? Shouldn't web trends be able to
>track that the above HREF was an exit link? I'm not up to speed on
>web trends yet but I know its fairly robust.
>
>The key is they want to know how many times somebody clicked that
>link and left the site - and *which* site they went to. It seems to
>me this redirect page is unnecessary... what do you all think?

How will your server know they clicked on the link and went to the other 
site? That information is recorded at the other site via the referrer, not 
your site.

IMvHO - Having a redirect page is the simplest and most efficient way to 
track links leading off your site.

-- 
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."


From hassan at webtuitive.com  Tue Nov  4 12:16:54 2003
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:16:54 -0800
Subject: [thelist] tracking a url
In-Reply-To: <20031104164835.86800.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20031104164835.86800.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3FA7ED16.2020700@webtuitive.com>

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:

> I have a situation where a parent company web site is linking to some
> of its own company web sites that are other brands. So for example,
> on web site "Main" we have this link:
> 
> <a href="www.companyA.com">Find out more!</a>

> They suggested having a 'redirect' page that passes the link of the
> company ("companyA") the user clicked. So an asp that gets that value
> in the URL, where it can be tracked, then using a redirect to send
> them to that page.
> 
> Is it me or is this really stupid? Shouldn't web trends be able to
> track that the above HREF was an exit link? 

?!  Logs show page requests.

The logs of the "Main.com" site that web trends is analyzing don't
have any requests for pages on "companyA.com".

So yes, the choices are 1) use a redirector (this is pretty common)
or 2) merge the logs from all the affiliates and the main company.

HTH!
-- 
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.




From saodl at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  4 12:19:01 2003
From: saodl at yahoo.com (Siri Atma Oaklander De Licori)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:19:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [thelist] hiding html source code
Message-ID: <20031104181901.57417.qmail@web12705.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Tim,

I tend to agree with everyone else here that trying to
hide your source code is somewhat pointless...you can
only really obfuscate it, and proposals are better
done with images and diagrams.

Nonetheless if you really want to do it, the best way
I know of is to use a base page with a hidden (or
dynamicaly created) iframe to load the html you
actually want to show into the browser.  HTML
dynamically added like this is not (in my experience)
available when you 'view source'.  However keeping
someone from looking at the source and going directly
to the page you're loading is another problem...if you
want to avoid that you may have to put a password
dialog on the loading page and get the actual page
through some sort of server side scripting.  That'll
slow down most people pretty good, but remember that
whatever you do the information has to be on their
computer to be displayed so it will always be possible
to circumvent your precautions.  You just have to
decide if it's worth the trouble.

Here's a function for dynamicaly creating an IFrame
and loading a page into it.  You'll then have to put a
function call to returnResults() in the loaded page's
body onload event to trigger script for moving the
content to the appropriate location.  Good luck.

Siri

PS. If anyone knows a better way to load additional
html content into a page, I'd love to hear your input.

// BEGIN CODE BLOCK

// I got the basic script for this from
// David Flanagan's JavaScript the
// Definitive Guide, published by O'Rielly
// and then modified it.

var IFrameObj; // our IFrame object
var gsDestination; // the name of the object where the
                   // result will be sent.  Can be an
                   // object reference.  Set to 
                   // 'Do Not Return' if you want to
                   // do something else with the data
                   // rather than just plugging it in.
                   // Usually you'd call a processing
                   // function with gsCallAfter.
var gsCallAfter;  // an optional string used to run
script
                  // with setTimout after page load.
// 1st call: creates iframe, sets to IFrameObj.
// loads URL into the iframe.
// sets gsDestination to the display object.
function callToServer(URL,sReturnTo,sCallAfter) {
  if (!document.createElement) {return true};
  var IFrameDoc;
  gsDestination = sReturnTo;
  gsCallAfter = sCallAfter;
  if (!IFrameObj && document.createElement) {
    // create the IFrame and assign a reference to the
    // object to our global variable IFrameObj.
    // this will only happen the first time 
    // callToServer() is called
   try {
      var tempIFrame=document.createElement('iframe');
      tempIFrame.setAttribute('id','RSIFrame');
      tempIFrame.style.border='0px';
      tempIFrame.style.width='0px';
      tempIFrame.style.height='0px';
      IFrameObj =
document.body.appendChild(tempIFrame);
      
      if (document.frames) {
        // this is for IE5 Mac, because it will only
        // allow access to the document object
        // of the IFrame if we access it through
        // the document.frames array
        IFrameObj = document.frames['RSIFrame'];
      }
    } catch(exception) {
      // This is for IE5 PC, which does not allow
dynamic creation
      // and manipulation of an iframe object.
Instead, we'll fake
      // it up by creating our own objects.
      iframeHTML='\<iframe id="RSIFrame" style="';
      iframeHTML+='border:0px;';
      iframeHTML+='width:0px;';
      iframeHTML+='height:0px;';
      iframeHTML+='"><\/iframe>';
      document.body.innerHTML+=iframeHTML;
      IFrameObj = new Object();
      IFrameObj.document = new Object();
      IFrameObj.document.location = new Object();
      IFrameObj.document.location.iframe =
document.getElementById('RSIFrame');
      IFrameObj.document.location.replace =
function(location) {
        this.iframe.src = location;
      }
    }
  }
  
  if (navigator.userAgent.indexOf('Gecko') !=-1 &&
!IFrameObj.contentDocument) {
    // we have to give NS6 a fraction of a second
    // to recognize the new IFrame
   
setTimeout('callToServer('+URL+','+sReturnTo+')',10);
    return false;
  }
  
  if (IFrameObj.contentDocument) {
    // For NS6
    IFrameDoc = IFrameObj.contentDocument; 
  } else if (IFrameObj.contentWindow) {
    // For IE5.5 and IE6
    IFrameDoc = IFrameObj.contentWindow.document;
  } else if (IFrameObj.document) {
    // For IE5
    IFrameDoc = IFrameObj.document;
  } else {
    return true;
  }

  IFrameDoc.location.replace(URL);
  IFrameDoc.onload = returnResults;
//document.getElementById('secondary').innerHTML=URL;
  return false;
}

function returnResults() {
  var IFrameDoc;
  if (IFrameObj.contentDocument) {
    // For NS6
    IFrameDoc = IFrameObj.contentDocument; 
  } else if (IFrameObj.contentWindow) {
    // For IE5.5 and IE6
    IFrameDoc = IFrameObj.contentWindow.document;
  } else if (IFrameObj.document) {
    // For IE5
    IFrameDoc = IFrameObj.document;
  } else {
    return true;
  }
  if(typeof gsDestination == 'object') {
    gsDestination.innerHTML =
IFrameDoc.body.innerHTML;
  } else if (gsDestination != 'Do Not Return') {
    document.getElementById(gsDestination).innerHTML =
IFrameDoc.body.innerHTML;
  }
  if (gsCallAfter) setTimeout(gsCallAfter,0);
}

// END CODE BLOCK

-------Tim Wrote--------
hello,

i cannot provide an example - but previously, i've
seen web developer 
(who i
hired to create a javascript function for me 2 years
ago) hide the 
source code
on a site that he had me view the work for approval.

i.e. when i clicked 'view source' it was just a blank
file - no matter 
what i
tried - it was hidden

i'm now learning client side and server side scripting
for myself and 
starting
my own business. i would love to use this technique in
the approval 
stages of
development.

does anyone know how this is done?

i'm happy for you to reply to me privately if this is
a trade secret - 
or how
can i find more information on doing such a thing?

thank you very much for your time

tim burgan


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

From evolt at david.us-lot.org  Tue Nov  4 12:24:24 2003
From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:24:24 +0000
Subject: [thelist] tracking a url
In-Reply-To: <20031104164835.86800.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20031104164835.86800.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20031104182424.GA2118%david@dorward.me.uk>

On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 08:48:35 -0800, Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:

> <a href="www.companyA.com">Find out more!</a>

>  Shouldn't web trends be able to track that the above HREF was an
> exit link? I'm not up to speed on web trends yet but I know its
> fairly robust.

Of course it can't, that's basic http.

A server side process running on server A can't know if a client has
gone to server B and asked it for a resource.

-- 
David Dorward                                       http://dorward.me.uk/

From damiencola at wanadoo.fr  Tue Nov  4 12:40:04 2003
From: damiencola at wanadoo.fr (Damien COLA)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:40:04 +0100
Subject: [thelist] tracking a url
In-Reply-To: <20031104164835.86800.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000801c3a303$1523c140$0100a8c0@ELECTRA>

I think it is necessary.
I don't know about web trends, but how a tool based on log files could
know that you clicked an external site ?!?..
The only thing it would know is that the last page where the visitor
was, is the page where are the links, but that's all..
So a redirect page is good to know exactly where does the link point to,
and store that in a database.

-----Original Message-----
Is it me or is this really stupid? Shouldn't web trends be able to track
that the above HREF was an exit link? I'm not up to speed on web trends
yet but I know its fairly robust. 


From cneppes at port80software.com  Tue Nov  4 12:40:16 2003
From: cneppes at port80software.com (Chris Neppes)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:40:16 -0800
Subject: [thelist] hiding html source code
Message-ID: <D0E8117DBE110546B7C1781660DD579A1A640E@mailbox.port80software.com>

You can crunch and obfuscate your source code, including JavaScript,
safely with the w3compiler...

www.w3compiler.com

Best,
Chris

     ::::::::::     ::::::::::

Chris Neppes 
Port80 Software, Inc. 
www.port80software.com  

5252 Balboa Ave., Ste. 605 
San Diego, CA 92117 
cneppes at port80software.com
858.268.7960 voice
619.733.7484 cell 
858.268.7760 fax

Web server modules for Microsoft IIS.
security. performance. user experience.


From mike at combsnet.com  Tue Nov  4 12:56:43 2003
From: mike at combsnet.com (Mike Combs)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:56:43 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Re: Language Detection vrs. Splash Screen
In-Reply-To: <E1AGjzj-0003nD-8f@rev.vosn.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031104135325.0223e1d8@mail.combsnet.com>

Hi Kent,

Perhaps you could register the ".fr" version of the domain and allow French 
users to access that way.  Apache supports some mod rewrite commands that 
might be useful in this.

Overall, I prefer detecting the browser preference over having a splash 
screen.  But for users who don't know about it, you could have a 
English/French flag button that could override, or simply give them 
instructions on changing the browser preference.

At 02:03 PM 11/3/2003, you wrote:

>We do not want to default to English with the thinking that this might
>"offend" our French audience, for lack of a better word. So we have two
>options:
>
>1. A splash page with language choice/selection.
>2. Utilize a script to detect the default langauge set on the user's
>browser.


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  4 13:03:35 2003
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:03:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [thelist] tracking a url [fine be that way]
In-Reply-To: <000801c3a303$1523c140$0100a8c0@ELECTRA>
Message-ID: <20031104190335.67664.qmail@web12605.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Damien COLA <damiencola at wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> I think it is necessary.

And others said as much...

Darn you guys, you're all against me! ;). I didn't think that
through- obviously the exit page does me no good if there are more
than one URL exit point on there. (and even then, no info on the
link)

Thanks

Tom

=====
http://www.pixelmech.com/ :: Web Development Services
http://www.DMXzone.com/ :: JavaScript Author / Every Friday!
http://www.thywordistruth.net/ :: Eternal Life

"I'll ho ho and ha ha you!" (Daffy Duck)

From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  4 13:30:06 2003
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:30:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [thelist] tracking a url [implementation?]
In-Reply-To: <20031104175137.GA1993@doxdesk.com>
Message-ID: <20031104193006.65945.qmail@web12604.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Andrew Clover <and-evolt at doxdesk.com> wrote:
> Tom Dell'Aringa <pixelmech at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > They suggested having a 'redirect' page that passes the link of
> > the company ("companyA") the user clicked.

> I'm afraid something like this is necessary...

Okay, so what's the best way to run this? If my redirect page is
LinkRedirect.asp - should I append the whole URL (if I did I assume
it would need to be encoded?) or just a keyword that the server maps
to a url?

do this:

LinkRedirect.asp?url=http://www.somesite.com/

or

LinkRedirect.asp?url=somesite

then logic in the page maps it?

Either way I assume I would then dynamically write that to the meta
refresh tag with a value of 0 and let it fly..correct?

Tom

=====
http://www.pixelmech.com/ :: Web Development Services
http://www.DMXzone.com/ :: JavaScript Author / Every Friday!
http://www.thywordistruth.net/ :: Eternal Life

"I'll ho ho and ha ha you!" (Daffy Duck)

From jcbullas at nildram.co.uk  Tue Nov  4 13:31:17 2003
From: jcbullas at nildram.co.uk (John C Bullas)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 19:31:17 +0000
Subject: [thelist] tracking a url
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20031104101127.026d4a08@baratta.com>
References: <20031104164835.86800.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20031104101127.026d4a08@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20031104192445.024224c0@pop3.nildram.co.uk>


>>
>>The key is they want to know how many times somebody clicked that
>>link and left the site - and *which* site they went to. It seems to
>>me this redirect page is unnecessary... what do you all think?
>
>How will your server know they clicked on the link and went to the other 
>site? That information is recorded at the other site via the referrer, not 
>your site.
>
>IMvHO - Having a redirect page is the simplest and most efficient way to 
>track links leading off your site.

True

This will show the viewer left the site ASSUMING The only way they can 
leave the site to the "target" is via the redirect page
http://www.ime.org.uk/hits/latest/Access_Statistics.htm#Exit_Pages
http://www.ime.org.uk/fluxredirect.htm is one of our redirects

and the weblog on the target site will simply show the hit from the 
appropriate referring URL eg:
http://www.fatblokeracing.org/hits/Referrers.htm#Referring_URLs

FB
Package costs $80!
"Bad Language and Abuse is the sole recourse
of the F&*$$! C**$!": Oscar Wilde


From lalo at teligens.com  Tue Nov  4 15:00:09 2003
From: lalo at teligens.com (Eduardo Dominguez)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:00:09 -0700
Subject: [thelist] weird form behaviour...
Message-ID: <3FA81359.6090906@teligens.com>

I have a table that is inside a form. The doctype is xhtml transitional. 
This form has a couple of <select>s. The weird thing is that on IE6, the 
first element of these selects is not being shown.

If I copy paste the html code for the selects and paste it outside the 
table, the select gets rendered correctly.

The HTML is valid and it renders just fine in Mozilla.

Has anybody experienced this ? Any ideas on what might be wrong ?

Thanks in advance

-- 
edmz
http://www.pisotrece.com/~edmz/


From edc at wnc.quik.co.nz  Tue Nov  4 14:16:14 2003
From: edc at wnc.quik.co.nz (michael ensor)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:16:14 +1300
Subject: [thelist] hiding html source code
References: <D0E8117DBE110546B7C1781660DD579A1A640E@mailbox.port80software.com>
Message-ID: <000501c3a310$83bfdfa0$186237d2@oemcomputer>

as a matter of idle curiosity I ran the url page through the validator, it
returned 87 errors!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Neppes" <cneppes at port80software.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 7:40 AM
Subject: RE: [thelist] hiding html source code


: You can crunch and obfuscate your source code, including JavaScript,
: safely with the w3compiler...
:
: www.w3compiler.com



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.535 / Virus Database: 330 - Release Date: 1/11/03


From search at studentssearch.com  Tue Nov  4 14:29:58 2003
From: search at studentssearch.com (Students Search Editors)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:29:58 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Site Check
Message-ID: <003501c3a312$6cdc94c0$21f886d9@co.uk>

Hello

I was hoping that some of you could have a look at
www.studentssearch.com

I have just finished the main design but would like some feedback on 

A) any errors
B) spelling / grammatical mistakes
C) your comments in general

I think I have most things working now. I have added about 50 sites to
the directory so the search function won't be all that accurate yet. But
that should improve. The database is finished so you can add sites.

Feel free to reply on or off list as you prefer. 

Thanks in Advance
Alan


From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Tue Nov  4 15:11:12 2003
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:11:12 -0600 
Subject: [thelist] weird form behavior...
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E516D@smtmb.tmc.local>

edmz (and everyone),

please copy and paste your code here so we may digress the problem further.

rob

From hassan at webtuitive.com  Tue Nov  4 15:22:15 2003
From: hassan at webtuitive.com (Hassan Schroeder)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:22:15 -0800
Subject: [thelist] tracking a url [implementation?]
In-Reply-To: <20031104193006.65945.qmail@web12604.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20031104193006.65945.qmail@web12604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3FA81887.7070409@webtuitive.com>

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:

> Okay, so what's the best way to run this? If my redirect page is
> LinkRedirect.asp - should I append the whole URL (if I did I assume
> it would need to be encoded?) or just a keyword that the server maps
> to a url?

Your choice. Using a mapping scheme, rather than the whole URL,
may be preferable as it'll trap any bad URLs (typos) that have
gotten introduced into your pages.

And letting the redirector pass an arbitrary URL unparsed gives
me a queasy feeling, securitywise :-)

> Either way I assume I would then dynamically write that to the meta
> refresh tag with a value of 0 and let it fly..correct?

No, there's no reason to send the browser a page -- just send the
redirect header with the target URL...

-- 
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- hassan at webtuitive.com
Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-938-0567   === http://webtuitive.com

                           dream.  code.




From rodrigo at cedha.org.ar  Tue Nov  4 15:38:36 2003
From: rodrigo at cedha.org.ar (Rodrigo Galindez)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:38:36 -0300 (ART)
Subject: [thelist] hiding html source code
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20031104102937.00a75120@mail.delime.com>
References: <001901c3a2d2$c1a8c180$fa5e32d2@timburgan>
        <4.2.0.58.20031104102937.00a75120@mail.delime.com>
Message-ID: <61518.24.232.247.95.1067981916.squirrel@www.cedha.org.ar>

I agree with marc. There is no need to code in that preliminar stage of
the development.
Anyway, try www.anti-leech.com, they have a free to use html code
"protector".
Cheers,

Rodrigo Galindez
Information Management Assistant
Centro de Derechos Humanos y Ambiente
Gral Paz 186 10 A
5000 - Cordoba - Argentina
Tel/fax 54-351-4256278
rodrigo at cedha.org.ar
www.cedha.org.ar

> Message from Tim Burgan (11/4/2003 11:24 PM)
>
>>i'm now learning client side and server side scripting for myself and
>> starting my own business. i would love to use this technique in the
>> approval stages of development.
>
> In the "approval" stages of development, consider doing only
> screenshots/mock up images in photoshop rather than actual coding. Why
> start writing code before you get paid in the first place?
>
> If your response is "the clients need to click around to see how things
> work", do multiple screenshots and walk them through it like a
> storyboard.
>
> I'm sure you are aware of that running a business requires its own
> special  set of skills quite separate from client side and server side
> scripting. A  great book you can maybe take a look at is The Geek's
> Guide to Internet  Business Success by Bob Schmidt.
>
> Good luck.
>
> regards.
> -marc
>
> --
> Carnival 2003 in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com
> http://www.playyuhself.com/
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !





From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Nov  4 15:40:58 2003
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:40:58 -0800
Subject: [thelist] tracking a url [implementation?]
In-Reply-To: <20031104193006.65945.qmail@web12604.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20031104175137.GA1993@doxdesk.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031104133645.04a043c0@baratta.com>

At 11:30 AM 11/4/2003, Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:

>Okay, so what's the best way to run this? If my redirect page is
>LinkRedirect.asp - should I append the whole URL (if I did I assume
>it would need to be encoded?) or just a keyword that the server maps
>to a url?
>
>do this:
>
>LinkRedirect.asp?url=http://www.somesite.com/

If you use IDs and a DB Table you can simplify it to:

         Link.asp?ID=33

Then the program records the "hit", looks up 33, and redirects the browser. 
Another way would be to just pass the domain name and path, if necessary

         Link.asp?URL=www.foo.org

         Link.asp?URL=www.foo.org/path/to/content

Don't use Meta tags!! In ASP use:

         response.redirect("http://wwww.foo.org")

I would recommend that you record the hit in a table somewhere instead of 
relying on WebTrends to track this.

-- 
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."


From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Nov  4 15:40:58 2003
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:40:58 -0800
Subject: [thelist] tracking a url [implementation?]
In-Reply-To: <20031104193006.65945.qmail@web12604.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20031104175137.GA1993@doxdesk.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031104133645.04a043c0@baratta.com>

At 11:30 AM 11/4/2003, Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:

>Okay, so what's the best way to run this? If my redirect page is
>LinkRedirect.asp - should I append the whole URL (if I did I assume
>it would need to be encoded?) or just a keyword that the server maps
>to a url?
>
>do this:
>
>LinkRedirect.asp?url=http://www.somesite.com/

If you use IDs and a DB Table you can simplify it to:

         Link.asp?ID=33

Then the program records the "hit", looks up 33, and redirects the browser. 
Another way would be to just pass the domain name and path, if necessary

         Link.asp?URL=www.foo.org

         Link.asp?URL=www.foo.org/path/to/content

Don't use Meta tags!! In ASP use:

         response.redirect("http://wwww.foo.org")

I would recommend that you record the hit in a table somewhere instead of 
relying on WebTrends to track this.

-- 
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."


From Jono at brookgroup.com  Tue Nov  4 16:15:35 2003
From: Jono at brookgroup.com (Jono Young)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:15:35 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online
Message-ID: <BBCD8F37.7E2D%Jono@brookgroup.com>

I would like to post a bunch of photos, I have taken, on my online
photography portfolio, and I am wondering if there is a way for me to make
them non-downloadable.

In other words, I don't want the users/viewers to be able to
Right(PC)/Control(Mac) Click, drag-and-drop, etc. the images and download
them to their hard drive.  I can put a water mark in the photos, but I am
looking for extreme control here.

Is there a way to make the images the user would attempt to download,
download as another image of my choice?  For example, when the user tries to
download one of my images, the download would somehow redirect to a fake
image, or perhaps force the user to download just a spacer.gif file instead?

I think some or all of this may be possible, but perhaps only through my
ISP...or perhaps not?  Any suggestions?

Thanks,
-- 
Jono Young
Designer/Illustrator



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  4 15:18:33 2003
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:18:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [thelist] weird form behaviour...
In-Reply-To: <3FA81359.6090906@teligens.com>
Message-ID: <20031104211833.45083.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Eduardo Dominguez <lalo at teligens.com> wrote:
> The weird thing is that on IE6, the first element of these selects 
> is not being shown.

Eduardo, nobody can help you if you don't show us the code!

Tom

P.S. Possibly - do you have the second item marked as selected?

=====
http://www.pixelmech.com/ :: Web Development Services
http://www.DMXzone.com/ :: JavaScript Author / Every Friday!
http://www.thywordistruth.net/ :: Eternal Life

"I'll ho ho and ha ha you!" (Daffy Duck)

From randyp at cycla.com  Tue Nov  4 16:32:23 2003
From: randyp at cycla.com (Randy Pearson)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:32:23 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Does MSIE 5 Have a Problem with @media?
Message-ID: <22305992127961@dserver.cycla.com>

Does anyone know if there is a known bug with @media in style sheets in MSIE
5.X? I was trying to adopt a printing approach in a single style sheet and
added something like this:

@media screen{
	.MainMenu{ width: 160px; text-align: left; }
}
@media print{
	.MainMenu{ display: none; }
}

This worked fine, except in MSIE 5.X, where the behavior was quite erratic.
It would seem almost to randomly use/ignore the styles, such that repeatedly
refreshing the same page would vary the rendering. I pared isolated the
trouble to this use of dual-media usage within one page.

Further, this appeared only to apply when the CSS was external. I copied the
whole .CSS file contents into a <style> block in the document, and the
problem did not occur.

If this is a bug, does anyone know a workaround, other than adding a
separate .CSS file?

Thanks,

-- Randy


From raskenbo at fastmail.fm  Tue Nov  4 16:54:45 2003
From: raskenbo at fastmail.fm (Ken Chase)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:54:45 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Re: Language Detection vrs. Splash Screen
In-Reply-To: <23CCDFA7793EEB4EBFBA56EE4044A9BB02D2CD4D@FRA-FORMULA>
References: <23CCDFA7793EEB4EBFBA56EE4044A9BB02D2CD4D@FRA-FORMULA>
Message-ID: <20031104225445.285193DCF2@server1.messagingengine.com>


On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:22:35 -0500 , "Ben Gustafson"
<Ben_Gustafson at lionbridge.com> said:
> 
> > Using/not using a splash page is one thing. However, being 
> > from a bilingual country, I know that a large and vocal group 
> > would be offended by one language being the "default" over 
> > another. 
> 
> Huh? Think about that for a second. How exactly would not having a
> default
> language work? If a site was in English and French, and your browser
> language preference was set to German, which language would be displayed?
> Esperanto? None?
> I think the "large and vocal group" needs to get over itself.

What I meant was that the default page would have information in both
languages. After thinking this over, I guess you could call this a splash
page. Good call.

The point was that you normally wouldn't want to offend your audience or
ignore policy/law. 

Maybe the "large and vocal group" needs to get over itself. However, they
are a reality. Maybe a person who is satisfied using IE3 "needs to get
over itself" and upgrade their browser (if they can). However, in many
cases you still want them to be able to use your site - for the sale or
the vote ;-)

kenbo

From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Tue Nov  4 16:58:58 2003
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:58:58 -0600 
Subject: [thelist] Adding a Column in EM is Taking WAY TOO long.
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E5170@smtmb.tmc.local>

Hi list,

I'm using Enterprise manager to add a column (Design Table > save) to an
existing table of around 70k rows. After waiting around for 20 minutes for
the operation to complete, I gave up. 

Has anyone had experience like this they can share? advice to offer?
alternate quicker methods (ALTER TABLE)?

Rob Smith

From pms at stoutstreet.com  Tue Nov  4 17:08:03 2003
From: pms at stoutstreet.com (patrick)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 16:08:03 -0700
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online
In-Reply-To: <BBCD8F37.7E2D%Jono@brookgroup.com>
References: <BBCD8F37.7E2D%Jono@brookgroup.com>
Message-ID: <3FA83153.1010601@stoutstreet.com>


No, there is not a way to do this. Check the archives -- this comes up
quarterly. If it is web-accessible, it is downloadable.
If I am viewing your page in my browser, all of the files are on my hard
drive (in the cache) already.


The watermark is a better idea.

Jono Young wrote:

>I would like to post a bunch of photos, I have taken, on my online
>photography portfolio, and I am wondering if there is a way for me to make
>them non-downloadable.
>
>In other words, I don't want the users/viewers to be able to
>Right(PC)/Control(Mac) Click, drag-and-drop, etc. the images and download
>them to their hard drive.  I can put a water mark in the photos, but I am
>looking for extreme control here.
>
>Is there a way to make the images the user would attempt to download,
>download as another image of my choice?  For example, when the user tries to
>download one of my images, the download would somehow redirect to a fake
>image, or perhaps force the user to download just a spacer.gif file instead?
>
>I think some or all of this may be possible, but perhaps only through my
>ISP...or perhaps not?  Any suggestions?
>
>Thanks,
>  
>


From simon.perry at si-designs.co.uk  Tue Nov  4 17:10:29 2003
From: simon.perry at si-designs.co.uk (Simon Perry)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:10:29 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online
References: <BBCD8F37.7E2D%Jono@brookgroup.com>
Message-ID: <03cb01c3a328$d6d0bfd0$3100a8c0@xppro>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jono Young"


> I would like to post a bunch of photos, I have taken, on my online
> photography portfolio, and I am wondering if there is a way for me to make
> them non-downloadable.

One solution would be a Java app that handles the gallery functions. A user
could still do a screen shot to capture your picture. In the end if it
displays on the users browser then they have access to the image, you can
only hope to make it harder.

Simon


From damiencola at wanadoo.fr  Tue Nov  4 17:13:03 2003
From: damiencola at wanadoo.fr (Damien COLA)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:13:03 +0100
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online
In-Reply-To: <BBCD8F37.7E2D%Jono@brookgroup.com>
Message-ID: <000401c3a329$32c3b860$0100a8c0@ELECTRA>

one easy thing, is to make your image as a table cell's background.
then have in that cell a spacer.gif with the width and height of your
image.
That way when right clicking the user will download the spacer.gif
but while downloading a spacer.gif could fool someone once, at the
second attempt on another picture, it will be obvious that there's
something wrong (the OS will ask for overwriting)
so you should have as many spacer.gif that you have original images and
name them in pair. images should be JPG and spacers GIF. so image1.GIF
is the spacer for image1.JPG

ok explanation done, but that's surely not the best way, so I wait for
the follows up with impatience.


-----Original Message-----
I would like to post a bunch of photos, I have taken, on my online
photography portfolio, and I am wondering if there is a way for me to
make them non-downloadable.


From richard.bennett at skynet.be  Tue Nov  4 17:18:11 2003
From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:18:11 +0100
Subject: [thelist] Site Check
References: <003501c3a312$6cdc94c0$21f886d9@co.uk>
Message-ID: <01e201c3a329$eaa7d4c0$2700000a@PORTABLE>

Hi,

Loads nice and fast, and not too much junk on there.
The logo is not nice though, looks like it was put up because nobody dared
tell the designer that it was bad.
There are three horizontal lines on the page, one is 100% width, one is
about 70% width, and one is fixed width, having the all the same width would
balance the page.
In IE all text is fixed size except one line - preferably allow all text to
be resized with [ctrl]mousewheel.
What are all those links at the bottom? Can't you condense that into one
line of 8 links or so?
I don't know about grammar and all that, but is "students search" correct?
Isn't that the possessive requiring a hyphen?
Browsing in a small window, I never noticed the search results showing
underneath the advertisement, I thought there was no content at all at
first.
What's with the "html version"? They both are. It could be called the
"Apologise for bad search results" version, as that's the only difference I
see.
Your text about adding links is strange:
Sudden Capitals, grammar done wrongly, and some sentences weirdly are
sometimes constructed.

Hope that helps
Richard.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Students Search Editors" <search at studentssearch.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:29 PM
Subject: [thelist] Site Check


Hello

I was hoping that some of you could have a look at
www.studentssearch.com

I have just finished the main design but would like some feedback on

A) any errors
B) spelling / grammatical mistakes
C) your comments in general

I think I have most things working now. I have added about 50 sites to
the directory so the search function won't be all that accurate yet. But
that should improve. The database is finished so you can add sites.

Feel free to reply on or off list as you prefer.

Thanks in Advance
Alan

--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !


From kr43m0r at earthlink.net  Tue Nov  4 17:25:01 2003
From: kr43m0r at earthlink.net (Lonnie)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:25:01 -0600
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online
References: <BBCD8F37.7E2D%Jono@brookgroup.com>
Message-ID: <017901c3a32a$de8c81d0$6401a8c0@yoda>

> Is there a way to make the images the user would attempt to download,
> download as another image of my choice?  For example, when the user tries
to
> download one of my images, the download would somehow redirect to a fake
> image, or perhaps force the user to download just a spacer.gif file
instead?

If a user can "SEE" it, it has already been downloaded. There are ways to
make it a bit more difficult for your "run-of-the-mill" thief, but you are
most definitely wasting your time for those more knowledgable.

There's only one SURE way. Don't post it on the Internet!



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  4 15:38:14 2003
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:38:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [thelist] tracking a url [implementation?]
In-Reply-To: <3FA81887.7070409@webtuitive.com>
Message-ID: <20031104213814.75037.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hassan Schroeder <hassan at webtuitive.com> wrote:
> Your choice. Using a mapping scheme, rather than the whole URL,
> may be preferable as it'll trap any bad URLs (typos) that have
> gotten introduced into your pages.
> 
> And letting the redirector pass an arbitrary URL unparsed gives
> me a queasy feeling, securitywise :-)

My thought too.

> > Either way I assume I would then dynamically write that to the
> > meta refresh tag with a value of 0 and let it fly..correct?
> 
> No, there's no reason to send the browser a page -- just send the
> redirect header with the target URL...

Not sure exactly what you mean - but here's what I decided on. I do a
url like so:

<a href="foo?url=dood">foo</a>

Then is my ASP page I have thus:

sURL = Request.QueryString("url")

Select Case sURL

	Case "dood"
	' in each case, write data to a tracking file, txt file etc...
        response.redirect "http://www.dood.com/" 

        Case etc. etc.
End Select

So if the URL is good, the page should immediately redirect if I
undersand response.redirect correctly.

Then in the body of the HTML I put the actual link, just in case a
bad URL gets passed somehow and none of the cases get evaluated, the
user can re-click on the same link and it will send them directly
off..

Comments?

Tom

=====
http://www.pixelmech.com/ :: Web Development Services
http://www.DMXzone.com/ :: JavaScript Author / Every Friday!
http://www.thywordistruth.net/ :: Eternal Life

"I'll ho ho and ha ha you!" (Daffy Duck)

From lalo at teligens.com  Tue Nov  4 19:02:21 2003
From: lalo at teligens.com (Eduardo Dominguez)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 18:02:21 -0700
Subject: [thelist] weird form behaviour...
In-Reply-To: <20031104211833.45083.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20031104211833.45083.qmail@web12607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3FA84C1D.3020402@teligens.com>

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:

> --- Eduardo Dominguez <lalo at teligens.com> wrote:
> 
>>The weird thing is that on IE6, the first element of these selects 
>>is not being shown.
> 
> 
> Eduardo, nobody can help you if you don't show us the code!
> 

I was cleaning the HTML to forward it to the list and then I found the 
problem.

It was caused be a select tag that was not closed in the form :

   <select <option>

This validated correctly in the htmlhelp.com  validator (I think), which 
led me to look for the answer elsewhere.

But, as it happens sometimes, I lost a couple of hours on a very simple 
thing.

Thanks for your help.


From Ben_Gustafson at lionbridge.com  Tue Nov  4 17:57:40 2003
From: Ben_Gustafson at lionbridge.com (Ben Gustafson)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:57:40 -0500 
Subject: [thelist] Re: Re: Language Detection vrs. Splash Screen
Message-ID: <23CCDFA7793EEB4EBFBA56EE4044A9BB02D2CD5E@FRA-FORMULA>

Ken,

My knee-jerk comment about the "large and vocal group" needing to get over
itself aside, the reality is that many, if not most, visitors to a site come
in through a page other than the home page, such as from a search engine or
a link on another site. Also, most people outside the US speak more than one
language, but don't know how to or don't care to set more than one language
preference in their browser. I think a prominent language navigation control
on all pages, listing the names of the languages as they are written in the
language (i.e., Fran?ais, Portugu?s, etc.) is preferable to a convoluted
language-neutral page. (And maybe toss in a language-neutral splash page
with the language navigation, though I think most people hate splash pages.)
My somewhat uninformed guess is that this would be in compliance with laws
that govern language on web sites.

--Ben

> > > Using/not using a splash page is one thing. However, being
> > > from a bilingual country, I know that a large and vocal group 
> > > would be offended by one language being the "default" over 
> > > another. 
> > 
> > Huh? Think about that for a second. How exactly would not having a 
> > default language work? If a site was in English and French, 
> and your 
> > browser language preference was set to German, which 
> language would be 
> > displayed? Esperanto? None?
> > I think the "large and vocal group" needs to get over itself.
> 
> What I meant was that the default page would have information 
> in both languages. After thinking this over, I guess you 
> could call this a splash page. Good call.
> 
> The point was that you normally wouldn't want to offend your 
> audience or ignore policy/law. 
> 
> Maybe the "large and vocal group" needs to get over itself. 
> However, they are a reality. Maybe a person who is satisfied 
> using IE3 "needs to get over itself" and upgrade their 
> browser (if they can). However, in many cases you still want 
> them to be able to use your site - for the sale or the vote ;-)
> 
> kenbo

From kr43m0r at earthlink.net  Tue Nov  4 17:53:43 2003
From: kr43m0r at earthlink.net (Lonnie)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:53:43 -0600
Subject: [thelist] Does MSIE 5 Have a Problem with @media?
References: <22305992127961@dserver.cycla.com>
Message-ID: <019101c3a32e$e0f5bcd0$6401a8c0@yoda>

> Does anyone know if there is a known bug with @media in style sheets in
MSIE
> 5.X? I was trying to adopt a printing approach in a single style sheet and
> added something like this:

Yes, I just experienced this exact same thing. PC/IE5 is wonky with @media
directives.

Cure:
Separate the print declarations into a separate stylesheet. Serve them with
a standard <link rel="stylesheet" media="print" src="print.css"> tag.

If NN4 is an issue you can use the caio hack[1].
Alternatively, you can use the high pass filter hack[2].


[1] http://centricle.com/ref/css/filters/tests/caio/
[2] http://centricle.com/ref/css/filters/tests/high_pass/

Good luck,
Lonnie



From Anthony at Baratta.com  Tue Nov  4 18:13:52 2003
From: Anthony at Baratta.com (Anthony Baratta)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 16:13:52 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Adding a Column in EM is Taking WAY TOO long.
In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E5170@smtmb.tmc.local>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031104161016.026c5d20@baratta.com>

At 02:58 PM 11/4/2003, Rob Smith wrote:
>Hi list,
>
>I'm using Enterprise manager to add a column (Design Table > save) to an
>existing table of around 70k rows. After waiting around for 20 minutes for
>the operation to complete, I gave up.
>
>Has anyone had experience like this they can share? advice to offer?
>alternate quicker methods (ALTER TABLE)?

You can view the SQL used to make your changes and run that in Query 
Analyzer. You probably lost your connection to the Server during the 
process or you have a ton of indexes impacted by your changes.

Basically with table changes, EM makes a new table with the new table 
structure and does an insert from olde table to new table, creates all the 
constraints and indexes, drops the olde table and then renames the new 
table the old name.

Depending upon your table size, indexes and the amount of temp space you 
have left over, this can take a while. Have you cleared your transaction 
logs lately? (via DB Maintenance)

-- 
Anthony Baratta
President
Keyboard Jockeys

"Conformity is the refuge of the unimaginative."


From syoung at unitec.ac.nz  Tue Nov  4 18:13:56 2003
From: syoung at unitec.ac.nz (Stuart Young)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 13:13:56 +1300
Subject: [thelist] tracking a url [implementation?]
Message-ID: <sfa8f795.061@gwia1.unitec.ac.nz>

pixelmech at yahoo.com 05/11/2003 08:30:06 >

> > They suggested having a 'redirect' page that passes the link of
> > the company ("companyA") the user clicked.

> Okay, so what's the best way to run this?

why don't you just download the code that someone else has used, this is such a standard thing to do, it must be available, I mean its part of the Web Links module of PHP-Nuke so it must be common in CMS code. In Nuke the number of clicks for each link ID number is stored in a database and displayed beside the link. e.g. shameless plug:
http://www.norml.org.nz/link-5.html 

As a user I find it very annoying when sites do this since I can't look at the URL in the status bar to see where I am going. Also if the script falls over then you can't visit the site at all. I have complained to the NZ Government website where all the search results have such links, e.g.

http://www.govt.nz/en/search/search-results?search_basic_string=Green&search_type=basic

and I visited when their technology had fallen over, and couldn't get anything.

so I like the idea of a JavaScript "web bug" - normal URL for everyone but still record the info - it wouldn't catch the people who have JavaScript turned off but I doubt this would be a problem for your statistics. 

cheers

Dr Stuart Young,       +64 (0)9-815 4321 Ex 8656
<syoung at unitec.ac.nz>     
Lecturer, School of Computing and Information Technology,
UNITEC Institute of Technology, Auckland, New Zealand
http://hyperdisc.unitec.ac.nz/staff/syoung.htm
I would provide a URL for my official staffpage, but its too long and complex

Dr Stuart Young,       +64 (0)9-815 4321 Ex 8656
<syoung at unitec.ac.nz>     
Lecturer, School of Computing and Information Technology,
UNITEC Institute of Technology, Auckland, New Zealand
http://hyperdisc.unitec.ac.nz/staff/syoung.htm
I would provide a URL for my official staffpage, but its too long and complex


From ken at adOpenStatic.com  Tue Nov  4 18:21:50 2003
From: ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:21:50 +1100
Subject: [thelist] Adding a Column in EM is Taking WAY TOO long.
References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E5170@smtmb.tmc.local>
Message-ID: <014b01c3a332$cec69940$0a345e81@careersAD.unsw.edu.au>

In EM you get the option to see what the actual change script will be, and
save that off to a file. I'd check that to see how many queries the whole
thing has to run (possibly just one, or possibly many depending on what type
of column, indexes and constraints you're adding).

Secondly, I would always do this via Query Analyser if I could. It means
that I have a script that I can save in case I ever need to repeat the
process.

Lastly, you may be running into some kind of blocking/lock
contention/deadlock problem. What does EM tell you about current connections
and state?

Cheers
Ken

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Smith" <rob.smith at THERMON.com>
To: "Thelist (E-mail)" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 9:58 AM
Subject: [thelist] Adding a Column in EM is Taking WAY TOO long.


: Hi list,
:
: I'm using Enterprise manager to add a column (Design Table > save) to an
: existing table of around 70k rows. After waiting around for 20 minutes for
: the operation to complete, I gave up.
:
: Has anyone had experience like this they can share? advice to offer?
: alternate quicker methods (ALTER TABLE)?
:
: Rob Smith


From kwan at tourismwhistler.com  Tue Nov  4 18:46:48 2003
From: kwan at tourismwhistler.com (Ken Wan)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 16:46:48 -0800
Subject: [thelist] new to css. need help with forms
In-Reply-To: <BLACKCOMBAphwFutJLt000000f3@mail.tourismwhistler.com>
Message-ID: <BBCD8878.65B1%kwan@tourismwhistler.com>

Hi everyone.

I was wondering if someone here could help me with using CSS to control the
appearance of forms. Specifically, I have a "search" field and corresponding
button and I wish to make them a specific height/size.

When I try to create a class to apply to the form, it completely buggers it
up, clipping the field/button without repositioning the text. In addition,
the field and the button are not the same height.

Any suggestions/ideas?

Thanks
Ken


From list at jasontordesign.com  Tue Nov  4 19:02:34 2003
From: list at jasontordesign.com (list)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:02:34 -0700
Subject: [thelist] Site Check
References: <003501c3a312$6cdc94c0$21f886d9@co.uk>
Message-ID: <001901c3a338$7f8ae150$c4d991d1@jason>

Nice site
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Students Search Editors" <search at studentssearch.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 1:29 PM
Subject: [thelist] Site Check


> Hello
> 
> I was hoping that some of you could have a look at
> www.studentssearch.com
> 
> I have just finished the main design but would like some feedback on 
> 
> A) any errors
> B) spelling / grammatical mistakes
> C) your comments in general
> 
> I think I have most things working now. I have added about 50 sites to
> the directory so the search function won't be all that accurate yet. But
> that should improve. The database is finished so you can add sites.
> 
> Feel free to reply on or off list as you prefer. 
> 
> Thanks in Advance
> Alan
> 
> -- 
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
> 
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
> Workers of the Web, evolt !

From paul at teltest.com  Tue Nov  4 19:48:59 2003
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:48:59 +1300
Subject: [thelist] new to css. need help with forms
In-Reply-To: <BBCD8878.65B1%kwan@tourismwhistler.com>
References: <BBCD8878.65B1%kwan@tourismwhistler.com>
Message-ID: <3FA8570B.3090006@teltest.com>

Ken Wan wrote:

>...
>
>When I try to create a class to apply to the form, it completely buggers it
>up, clipping the field/button without repositioning the text. In addition,
>the field and the button are not the same height.
>
>Any suggestions/ideas?...
>
you can acess the style properties of form components directly:
eg:

input
    {
    height: 20px;
    width: 100px;
    border: solid 1px #000;
    }

etc.

by giving id's / classes to your form components (selects, radois, 
inputs etc) you can style input type="text" differently from input 
type="submit" for example

Does that help?

-- 
 ------------------------------
	Paul Bennett						
	Internet Developer				
	Teltest Electronic Design		
 ------------------------------			
Email: paul at teltest.com				
Phone: 64 4 237 4557					
Web: http://www.teltest.com		
Wap: http://wap.teltest.com			



From seyon at delime.com  Tue Nov  4 20:05:04 2003
From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:05:04 -0400
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online
In-Reply-To: <BBCD8F37.7E2D%Jono@brookgroup.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20031104220321.0207fb30@mail.delime.com>

Message from Jono Young (11/4/2003 05:15 PM)
>I would like to post a bunch of photos, I have taken, on my online
>photography portfolio, and I am wondering if there is a way for me to make
>them non-downloadable.

Make the image small enough, dimension-wise, that it would be of very 
little or no use to anyone wanting to reuse it.

Or save yourself the hassle of not sleeping at night cause you're worrying 
who might be stealing images from your site at this very moment. Don't put 
them online in the first place.

regards.
-marc

--
Carnival 2003 in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com
http://www.playyuhself.com/

From seyon at delime.com  Tue Nov  4 20:09:03 2003
From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:09:03 -0400
Subject: [thelist] hiding html source code
In-Reply-To: <001901c3a2d2$c1a8c180$fa5e32d2@timburgan>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20031104220634.01f16618@mail.delime.com>

Message from Tim Burgan (11/4/2003 11:24 PM)
>hello,
>
>i'm now learning client side and server side scripting for myself and starting
>my own business. i would love to use this technique in the approval stages of
>development.

Two other thoughts I had during the course of today, Tim.

1. Do you really want to work with clients who you believe would stoop so 
low as stealing your source code to cheat  you out of your just deserves?
2. What message does it send to these clients when they do attempt to view 
your source code? Doesn't seem very trust inspiring to me.

regards.
-marc

--
Carnival 2003 in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com
http://www.playyuhself.com/

From ken at adOpenStatic.com  Tue Nov  4 20:35:52 2003
From: ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:35:52 +1100
Subject: [thelist] Adding a Column in EM is Taking WAY TOO long.
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20031104161016.026c5d20@baratta.com>
Message-ID: <033e01c3a345$880362a0$0a345e81@careersAD.unsw.edu.au>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anthony Baratta" <Anthony at Baratta.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Adding a Column in EM is Taking WAY TOO long.


: At 02:58 PM 11/4/2003, Rob Smith wrote:
: >Hi list,
: >
: >I'm using Enterprise manager to add a column (Design Table > save) to an
: >existing table of around 70k rows. After waiting around for 20 minutes
for
: >the operation to complete, I gave up.
: >
: >Has anyone had experience like this they can share? advice to offer?
: >alternate quicker methods (ALTER TABLE)?
:
: You can view the SQL used to make your changes and run that in Query
: Analyzer. You probably lost your connection to the Server during the
: process or you have a ton of indexes impacted by your changes.
:
: Basically with table changes, EM makes a new table with the new table
: structure and does an insert from olde table to new table, creates all the
: constraints and indexes, drops the olde table and then renames the new
: table the old name.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That depends, IIRC, on the recovery mode of your database (simple,
bulk-logged, full)

Cheers
Ken

Microsoft MVP - Windows Server (IIS)


From subscriptions at cbrody.com  Tue Nov  4 20:43:15 2003
From: subscriptions at cbrody.com (Chris Brody)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 02:43:15 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Site Check
In-Reply-To: <003501c3a312$6cdc94c0$21f886d9@co.uk>
Message-ID: <MBBBLMPGPBJGFMPJCNPJIEFNFBAA.subscriptions@cbrody.com>

search at studentssearch.com wrote :

> I was hoping that some of you could have a look at
> www.studentssearch.com
>

"Quality" is unfortunate word to misspell, and on every page too! Also it
should be "Students' Search", unless you mean to state the fact that
students use search engines, which I somehow doubt.

Apart from that it looks nice and clean. A little left padding on the white
text contained within the red bars would help both aesthetically and in
terms of legibility.

Some minor points: your HTML is missing a DOCTYPE. Looks like it should be
HTML 4 Transitional to me. Also, what is the purpose of the "HTML Version"
link? It results in essentially the same page.

--Chris.


From damiencola at wanadoo.fr  Tue Nov  4 21:09:21 2003
From: damiencola at wanadoo.fr (Damien COLA)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 04:09:21 +0100
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online
In-Reply-To: <000401c3a329$32c3b860$0100a8c0@ELECTRA>
Message-ID: <000a01c3a34a$359aca30$0100a8c0@ELECTRA>

here is my implementation of the technique : http://www.rfaucilhon.com

I know it won't fool someone like me, but it would for a lot of other
people. Plus they would download a bunch of photos, go away and when
they will watch the pictures, they might even have no way of finding
back my site ;-) stupid them ;-)

-----Original Message-----
one easy thing, is to make your image as a table cell's background. then
have in that cell a spacer.gif with the width and height of your image.
That way when right clicking the user will download the spacer.gif but
while downloading a spacer.gif could fool someone once, at the second
attempt on another picture, it will be obvious that there's something
wrong (the OS will ask for overwriting) so you should have as many
spacer.gif that you have original images and name them in pair. images
should be JPG and spacers GIF. so image1.GIF is the spacer for
image1.JPG


From kr43m0r at earthlink.net  Tue Nov  4 22:53:10 2003
From: kr43m0r at earthlink.net (Lonnie)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:53:10 -0600
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online
References: <000a01c3a34a$359aca30$0100a8c0@ELECTRA>
Message-ID: <002001c3a358$b6847750$6401a8c0@yoda>

> here is my implementation of the technique : http://www.rfaucilhon.com

...and another presentation that will only fool fools:
http://nickelcandy.com/lwk/id/

You CAN run, but you can't HIDE!

Hehe! Got you to look at some of my stuff ;-)

Lonnie


From jcbullas at nildram.co.uk  Wed Nov  5 01:34:41 2003
From: jcbullas at nildram.co.uk (John C Bullas)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 07:34:41 +0000
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online WATERMARK
In-Reply-To: <3FA83153.1010601@stoutstreet.com>
References: <BBCD8F37.7E2D%Jono@brookgroup.com>
 <3FA83153.1010601@stoutstreet.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20031105073101.023cacb0@pop3.nildram.co.uk>

At 23:08 04/11/2003, patrick wrote

>No, there is not a way to do this. Check the archives -- this comes up
>quarterly. If it is web-accessible, it is downloadable.
>If I am viewing your page in my browser, all of the files are on my hard
>drive (in the cache) already.
>
>
>The watermark is a better idea.

I agree

Even if you set a mouseover image over the image to stop "theright one" it 
being loaded
via <mouseover>right click><save as>

OR set the image as a table background

OR set the image to be a composite in a table of 2 or 4 images

OR embed the image in the background

They will still be able to source your images from the HTML :)

You can even do a SCREEN DUMP from a viewing of a FLASH file of your images 
(.SWF files can be back
engineered AFAIK to extract frames)

Make the watermark so conspicuous as to make any saving a waste of time OR 
make the
image so low res it is useless

FB 


From jcbullas at nildram.co.uk  Wed Nov  5 01:53:13 2003
From: jcbullas at nildram.co.uk (John C Bullas)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 07:53:13 +0000
Subject: [thelist] Re: allowing google to hotlink? ANYONE
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20031104195436.0239c550@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
References: <20031104164835.86800.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
 <000801c3a303$1523c140$0100a8c0@ELECTRA>
 <6.0.0.22.0.20031104195436.0239c550@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20031105075149.0240be10@pop3.nildram.co.uk>

Anyone any thoughts

I have no worries about people copying just don't want hotlinking

FB

>RewriteEngine on
>RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} ^[http|nttp].*$
>RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} !^$
>RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} !^http://(www\.)?fatblokeracing.org/.*$ [NC]
>
>RewriteRule \.(gif|jpg|jpeg|png)$ 
>http://www.fatblokeracing.org/sharedimages/badimage.gif [R,L]
>
>How would you change this code to ONLY allow google<dot><anything> to hotlink?
>
><http://www.samspade.org/t/refer?a=google.com>google.com resolves to 
><http://www.samspade.org/t/refer?a=216.239.57.99>216.239.57.99 
><http://www.samspade.org/t/refer?a=216.239.37.99>216.239.37.99
><http://www.samspade.org/t/refer?a=www.google.com>www.google.com resolves 
>to <http://www.samspade.org/t/refer?a=216.239.53.99>216.239.53.99
>
><http://www.samspade.org/t/refer?a=google.co.uk>google.co.uk resolves to 
><http://www.samspade.org/t/refer?a=216.239.39.100>216.239.39.100 
><http://www.samspade.org/t/refer?a=216.239.33.100>216.239.33.100 
><http://www.samspade.org/t/refer?a=216.239.37.100>216.239.37.100
><http://www.samspade.org/t/refer?a=www.google.co.uk>www.google.co.uk 
>resolves to <http://www.samspade.org/t/refer?a=216.239.53.99>216.239.53.99
>
>ad nauseam....
>
>FB

From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Wed Nov  5 02:32:40 2003
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:32:40 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online WATERMARK
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20031105073101.023cacb0@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCKECAHIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

I came to the conclusion a long time ago that you can provide enough information
without publishing your entire cv online.

If someone would like to really cv let them ask for it! and when they do send it
to them.

it's the only way around it, unless you put a pdf online.

Andrew

>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of John C Bullas
>Sent: 05 November 2003 07:35
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org; thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: Re: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online WATERMARK
>
>
>At 23:08 04/11/2003, patrick wrote
>
>>No, there is not a way to do this. Check the archives -- this comes up
>>quarterly. If it is web-accessible, it is downloadable.
>>If I am viewing your page in my browser, all of the files are on my hard
>>drive (in the cache) already.
>>
>


From mikek at brightstorm.co.uk  Wed Nov  5 02:46:23 2003
From: mikek at brightstorm.co.uk (mike karthauser)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:46:23 +0000
Subject: [thelist] Site Check
In-Reply-To: <003501c3a312$6cdc94c0$21f886d9@co.uk>
References: <003501c3a312$6cdc94c0$21f886d9@co.uk>
Message-ID: <89155A7D-0F6C-11D8-A84E-003065A5B276@brightstorm.co.uk>


On 4 Nov 2003, at 20:29, Students Search Editors wrote:

> I was hoping that some of you could have a look at
> www.studentssearch.com
>
> I have just finished the main design but would like some feedback on
>
> A) any errors
> B) spelling / grammatical mistakes
> C) your comments in general

Students Search Directory containing high quiality websites only (sp)

-- 
Mike Karthauser
Managing Director - Brightstorm Ltd

Email       >> mikek at brightstorm.co.uk
Web         >> http://www.brightstorm.co.uk
Tel         >> 0117 9426653 (office)
                07939 252144 (mobile)

Snailmail   >> Unit 8, 14 King Square,
                Bristol BS2 8JJ


From evolt at funkwit.com  Wed Nov  5 02:50:56 2003
From: evolt at funkwit.com (Paul Cowan)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 19:50:56 +1100
Subject: [thelist] Re: allowing google to hotlink? ANYONE
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20031105075149.0240be10@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
References: <20031104164835.86800.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
 <000801c3a303$1523c140$0100a8c0@ELECTRA>
 <6.0.0.22.0.20031104195436.0239c550@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
 <6.0.0.22.0.20031105075149.0240be10@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1465256918.1068061856@[10.1.1.10]>


John C Bullas wrote:
> Anyone any thoughts
>
> I have no worries about people copying just don't want hotlinking

You could always try going the other way.

Let anyone access your image no matter what referrer they have -- until
you find a referrer you don't want. When you do, add it to the rewrite
rule.

Sure, there might be some incidental bandwidth theft, but it will be
minor; if it's significant, you'll pick it up pretty quickly from your
weblogs.

Then, people with no referrer (people using privacy software, etc) won't
have a problem viewing your regular site... nor will the Google image
search robot, etc.

It's more work, but if it doesn't happen that often, it will just be a few
seconds to add a referrer to the rewrite rule once you have it set up.

Paul


From alan at liveinthemix.org  Wed Nov  5 05:33:54 2003
From: alan at liveinthemix.org (Alan Lloyd [Liveinthemix.org])
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:33:54 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Site Check
In-Reply-To: <89155A7D-0F6C-11D8-A84E-003065A5B276@brightstorm.co.uk>
Message-ID: <001c01c3a390$b24859d0$597586d9@co.uk>

Hi

Thanks to everybody for the comments. I did miss some obvious spelling
mistakes. That was a combination of a late night and forgetting to use
the spell check. Doh

The owner was a little worried that search engines would not do to well
because all pages are dynamically generated so asked for a link to the
HTML version. I did not want to refuse as I don't know that much about
SEO.
The HTML version is exactly the same as some of you noticed except that
it is static.

I will see what I can do about the logo. I must admit it isn't that good
but it's what I was given.

Thanks again for all the comments. I do appreciate all the time you guys
spent.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of mike karthauser
Sent: 05 November 2003 08:46
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Site Check



On 4 Nov 2003, at 20:29, Students Search Editors wrote:

> I was hoping that some of you could have a look at 
> www.studentssearch.com
>
> I have just finished the main design but would like some feedback on
>
> A) any errors
> B) spelling / grammatical mistakes
> C) your comments in general

Students Search Directory containing high quiality websites only (sp)

-- 
Mike Karthauser
Managing Director - Brightstorm Ltd

Email       >> mikek at brightstorm.co.uk
Web         >> http://www.brightstorm.co.uk
Tel         >> 0117 9426653 (office)
                07939 252144 (mobile)

Snailmail   >> Unit 8, 14 King Square,
                Bristol BS2 8JJ

-- 
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


From randyp at cycla.com  Wed Nov  5 06:13:02 2003
From: randyp at cycla.com (Randy Pearson)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:13:02 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Does MSIE 5 Have a Problem with @media?
In-Reply-To: <019101c3a32e$e0f5bcd0$6401a8c0@yoda>
Message-ID: <12113518729491@dserver.cycla.com>

> Cure:
> Separate the print declarations into a separate stylesheet. 
> Serve them with
> a standard <link rel="stylesheet" media="print" src="print.css"> tag.

Thanks. I was afraid that would be the answer.

> If NN4 is an issue you can use the caio hack.

I also read somewhere that NN4 only understands media="screen". If so, it
would not even look at the print.css styles. (I have not confirmed this.)

-- Randy


From brian at hondaswap.com  Wed Nov  5 06:44:59 2003
From: brian at hondaswap.com (Brian Cummiskey)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:44:59 -0500
Subject: [thelist] ASCii: html name vs html number
References: <BBCD8F37.7E2D%Jono@brookgroup.com>
	<3FA83153.1010601@stoutstreet.com>
	<6.0.0.22.0.20031105073101.023cacb0@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000501c3a39a$a144fd50$640110ac@americancustomercare.com>

I'm using an XHTML strict utf-8 charset, and I am wanting to use the ">>" character.

According to a chart i found, &raquo; does the same thing as #&187 - one is the html
name, one is the html number.

which is more widely supported?  Moreover, which is the more correct version to use,
given my charset? Any limitations to either?

Thanks


From ldelahunty at britstream.com  Wed Nov  5 07:08:46 2003
From: ldelahunty at britstream.com (Liam Delahunty)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:08:46 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Site Check
In-Reply-To: <001901c3a338$7f8ae150$c4d991d1@jason>
Message-ID: <DPEEJKJMBMMJNBKDKFLHIEMNEEAA.ldelahunty@britstream.com>

From: "Students Search Editors"
> I was hoping that some of you could have a look at
> www.studentssearch.com
>
> I have just finished the main design but would like some feedback on
>
> A) any errors
> B) spelling / grammatical mistakes
> C) your comments in general

I just deleted 800 unread emails, so forgive me if this has already been
pointed out.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man how to fish and
you feed him for a lifetime.", so see http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/ and
see if you can spot your error.

Kind regards,
Liam Delahunty,
Mega Products Limited


From and-evolt at doxdesk.com  Wed Nov  5 06:59:08 2003
From: and-evolt at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:59:08 +0000
Subject: [thelist] ASCii: html name vs html number
In-Reply-To: <000501c3a39a$a144fd50$640110ac@americancustomercare.com>
References: <BBCD8F37.7E2D%Jono@brookgroup.com>
	<3FA83153.1010601@stoutstreet.com>
	<6.0.0.22.0.20031105073101.023cacb0@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
	<000501c3a39a$a144fd50$640110ac@americancustomercare.com>
Message-ID: <20031105125908.GA18694@doxdesk.com>

Brian Cummiskey <brian at hondaswap.com> wrote:

> I'm using an XHTML strict utf-8 charset, and I am wanting to use the ">>"
> character.

If you are definitely setting the charset so the browser can detect it,
(through HTTP or meta-element) you don't need to encode this, you can just
put in a literal >> character. (Assuming of course you have a decent text
editor that can save such characters as UTF-8.)

> According to a chart i found, &raquo; does the same thing as #&187 - one
> is the html name, one is the html number.

One is the HTML entity name, yes; the numeric character reference is
defined by XML as well as old-style HTML.

> Moreover, which is the more correct version to use, given my charset?

Either is valid and usually understood browsers. However if you want to
use simple XML tools that don't read the DOCTYPE external subset (or get
it wrong, eg. MSXML), &#187; is more likely to be understood.

The charset doesn't matter - when you're using a &#...; reference, it's
always a Unicode codepoint, independent of the document encoding.

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/

From ngilas2003 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  5 07:16:25 2003
From: ngilas2003 at yahoo.com (Stevenson N)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:16:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [thelist] COM object 
Message-ID: <20031105131625.84255.qmail@web80603.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,
 
I have the following asp.net code:
 
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Dim oNewProject As New MSProject.Project()
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
 
when i run the page, i get the following error message:
 
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

COM object with CLSID {1019A320-508A-11CF-A49D-00AA00574C74} is either not valid or not registered. 
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
 
How can i register it?


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard

From randyp at cycla.com  Wed Nov  5 07:29:57 2003
From: randyp at cycla.com (Randy Pearson)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:29:57 -0500
Subject: [thelist] ASCii: html name vs html number
In-Reply-To: <20031105125908.GA18694@doxdesk.com>
Message-ID: <13283037529664@dserver.cycla.com>

> > According to a chart i found, &raquo; does the same thing 
> as #&187 - one is the html name, one is the html number.
> > Moreover, which is the more correct version to use, given 
> my charset?

My HTML reference says that the #&187; style of entity is understood back to
Netscape 1 (!), so those seem pretty safe <s> albeit less readable at design
time (although in this example "raquo" means nothing to me).

-- Randy


From SCaudill at municode.com  Wed Nov  5 08:11:59 2003
From: SCaudill at municode.com (Stephen Caudill)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:11:59 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online
Message-ID: <77025926DDD85A4D886C5B8A34E43E742D778A@exchange.internal.municode.com>

Lonnie on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 11:53 PM said:

:: here is my implementation of the technique :
:: http://www.rfaucilhon.com 
: 
: ...and another presentation that will only fool fools:
: http://nickelcandy.com/lwk/id/
: 
: You CAN run, but you can't HIDE!
: 
: Hehe! Got you to look at some of my stuff ;-)
: 
: Lonnie

In Mozilla, If you right-click, you're given the oppurtunity
to "View Background Image", which opens just the image in its
own window...  This method should do it for you, though:
http://lemurzone.com/edit/converse53.htm

-Stephen Caudill
http://www.mechavox.com/

From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Wed Nov  5 08:10:53 2003
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:10:53 -0600 
Subject: [thelist] Adding a Column in EM is Taking WAY TOO long.
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E5171@smtmb.tmc.local>

<snip author="ken">
In EM you get the option to see what the actual change script will be, and
save that off to a file. I'd check that to see how many queries the whole
thing has to run (possibly just one, or possibly many depending on what type
of column, indexes and constraints you're adding).
</snip>

this is the saved query, good learning tool!
ALTER TABLE dbo.tblReel ADD
	CanadaSalesOrderNumber varchar(20) NULL
GO

<snip author="ken">
Secondly, I would always do this via Query Analyzer if I could. It means
that I have a script that I can save in case I ever need to repeat the
process.
</snip>

Is QA faster? more dependable? good tip on saving the SQL statement

<snip author="ken">
Lastly, you may be running into some kind of blocking/lock
contention/deadlock problem. What does EM tell you about current connections
and state?
</snip>

The moment I try running the query, I get the infamous hour glass and EM
hangs. Do you think initiating another instance of EM will allow me to
monitor the connections and state of them?

<snip author="anthony">
Basically with table changes, EM makes a new table with the new table 
structure and does an insert from old table to new table, creates all the 
constraints and indexes, drops the old table and then renames the new 
table the old name.
</snip>

That's rancid! 

<snip author="anthony">
Have you cleared your transaction logs lately? (via DB Maintenance)
</snip>

I have no clue how to do this. I poked around in EM and really didn't find
what I was looking for. Granted I have no idea what I'm supposed to be
looking for. The help files didn't help much. Wow what a concept huh?!

Thanks again for your responses,

Rob

From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  5 08:23:16 2003
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:23:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [thelist] ie 5.22?
Message-ID: <20031105142316.98862.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

Examining out logs today and noted that we have a small group that
accesses us with IE 5.22. Is this the last update to 5.0 or is it
related to 5.5? I cannot seem to remember.

And just for a laugh, 2 of the spoofed user agents jarred my funny
bone:

1- SpaceBison/0.01 [fu] (Win67; X; ShonenKnife)
2- W3C standards are important. Stop ******* obsessing over
user-agent already.

:)

Tom


=====
http://www.pixelmech.com/ :: Web Development Services
http://www.DMXzone.com/ :: JavaScript Author / Every Friday!
http://www.thywordistruth.net/ :: Eternal Life

"I'll ho ho and ha ha you!" (Daffy Duck)

From mikek at brightstorm.co.uk  Wed Nov  5 08:42:18 2003
From: mikek at brightstorm.co.uk (mike karthauser)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:42:18 +0000
Subject: [thelist] ie 5.22?
In-Reply-To: <20031105142316.98862.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BBCEBCCA.21602%mikek@brightstorm.co.uk>

on 5/11/03 2:23 pm, Tom Dell'Aringa at pixelmech at yahoo.com wrote:

> Examining out logs today and noted that we have a small group that
> accesses us with IE 5.22. Is this the last update to 5.0 or is it
> related to 5.5? I cannot seem to remember.

5.22 is the most recent build of IE on mac osx. If you ever get any 5.1's
they will be mac os9+.

HTH

-- 
Mike Karthauser 
Managing Director - Brightstorm Ltd

Email       >> mikek at brightstorm.co.uk
Web         >> http://www.brightstorm.co.uk
Tel         >> 0117 9426653 (office)
               07939 252144 (mobile)

Snailmail   >> Unit 8, 14 King Square,
               Bristol BS2 8JJ


From damiencola at wanadoo.fr  Wed Nov  5 08:45:45 2003
From: damiencola at wanadoo.fr (Damien COLA)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:45:45 +0100
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online
In-Reply-To: <77025926DDD85A4D886C5B8A34E43E742D778A@exchange.internal.municode.com>
Message-ID: <000501c3a3ab$7eccc530$0100a8c0@ELECTRA>

Stephen, the view background works with the second impelmentation,
BECAUSE Lonnie didn't do it the right way, She only put the image as a
background and didn't put a transparent GIF over it.
On rfaucilhon.com you'll see in mozilla you don't have that "view
background image" option.

And the link, I am sorry but although it's good to say once that NO
VISUAL can be protected when put on the web, it's boring to see people
writing whole pages about that and other people relaying the links..
That's not good information, it's just mental masturbation.

Cheers,
Damien

-----Original Message-----
:: here is my implementation of the technique :
:: http://www.rfaucilhon.com 
: 
: ...and another presentation that will only fool fools:
: http://nickelcandy.com/lwk/id/

In Mozilla, If you right-click, you're given the oppurtunity
to "View Background Image", which opens just the image in its own
window...  This method should do it for you, though:
http://lemurzone.com/edit/converse53.htm


From ashiel at sportsinteraction.com  Wed Nov  5 08:53:08 2003
From: ashiel at sportsinteraction.com (Drew Shiel)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:53:08 +0000
Subject: [thelist] ASCii: html name vs html number
In-Reply-To: <13283037529664@dserver.cycla.com>
References: <20031105125908.GA18694@doxdesk.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031105145209.033555f0@mail.sportsinteraction.com>

At 08:29 05/11/2003 -0500, Randy Pearson wrote:
>My HTML reference says that the #&187; style of entity is understood back to
>Netscape 1 (!), so those seem pretty safe <s> albeit less readable at design
>time (although in this example "raquo" means nothing to me).

   Right Angular QUOte? It's the German equivalent of a closing ".

   Drew. 


From Jono at brookgroup.com  Wed Nov  5 08:48:54 2003
From: Jono at brookgroup.com (Jono Young)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:48:54 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online WATERMARK
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20031105073101.023cacb0@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BBCE7806.7EB7%Jono@brookgroup.com>

    OK, thanks everyone.  I thought that there was some sort of server or
host trickery that could be done?
 
    As for the archives on this issue, can someone please point me to where
I can find those archives?  It's probably quite simple, but I have not
ventured out of the list here much, so I am still kind of new to the whole
eVolt experience.

Thanks again,
Jono Young
Designer/Illustrator

> At 23:08 04/11/2003, patrick wrote
> 
>> No, there is not a way to do this. Check the archives -- this comes up
>> quarterly. If it is web-accessible, it is downloadable.





From todd at nhive.com  Wed Nov  5 02:58:16 2003
From: todd at nhive.com (Todd Ballard)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 02:58:16 -0600
Subject: [thelist] host recommendation for ASP
In-Reply-To: <9B9B61FC5C65A94EAFC1950F2E58FCF8023197F5@postal.ksi.homestead-corp.com>
Message-ID: <000001c3a37a$f7488b10$edaef63f@toddb>

I am a nix host reseller and I have a potential client that needs 2
sites hosted but one requires ASP. Recommendations?


Todd Ballard
T:512.577.4589
F:512.989.7310
E:todd at nhive.com


From evolt at david.us-lot.org  Wed Nov  5 09:12:14 2003
From: evolt at david.us-lot.org (David Dorward)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:12:14 +0000
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online WATERMARK
In-Reply-To: <BBCE7806.7EB7%Jono@brookgroup.com>
Message-ID: <70164919-0FA2-11D8-93BD-000A957E4F00@david.us-lot.org>


On Wednesday, Nov 5, 2003, at 14:48 Europe/London, Jono Young wrote:

>     OK, thanks everyone.  I thought that there was some sort of server 
> or
> host trickery that could be done?

Only to make it unsafe to link directly to an image. Not to prevent 
people from downloading it.

>
>     As for the archives on this issue, can someone please point me to 
> where
> I can find those archives?  It's probably quite simple, but I have not
> ventured out of the list here much, so I am still kind of new to the 
> whole
> eVolt experience.
>

http://lists.evolt.org/archive/
--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/


From hershelr at netvision.net.il  Wed Nov  5 09:31:12 2003
From: hershelr at netvision.net.il (Hershel Robinson)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:31:12 -0500
Subject: [thelist] host recommendation for ASP
In-Reply-To: <000001c3a37a$f7488b10$edaef63f@toddb>
Message-ID: <000501c3a3b1$d8608950$0300000a@hershel2000>

Recommendations? Host with me. :)

Hershel

______________________________________________________
Hershel Productions
Complete Web Services--Design, Programming and Hosting
Jerusalem, Israel
MSN Messenger: hershelsr at yahoo.com
Yahoo IM: hershelsr
ICQ: 120227859
Israel: (02) 644-6224
Israel Cell: 058 374-881
US: (248) 232-6534
US Fax: (831) 304-9743
FWD Number: 36205

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Todd Ballard
> Sent: Wed, November 05, 2003 3:58 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] host recommendation for ASP
> 
> 
> I am a nix host reseller and I have a potential client that needs 2
> sites hosted but one requires ASP. Recommendations?
> 
> 
> Todd Ballard
> T:512.577.4589
> F:512.989.7310
> E:todd at nhive.com
> 
> -- 
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
> 
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
> Workers of the Web, evolt ! 

From SCaudill at municode.com  Wed Nov  5 09:33:36 2003
From: SCaudill at municode.com (Stephen Caudill)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:33:36 -0500
Subject: [thelist] host recommendation for ASP
Message-ID: <77025926DDD85A4D886C5B8A34E43E7420BE5C@exchange.internal.municode.com>

Todd Ballard on Wednesday, November 05, 2003 3:58 AM said:

: I am a nix host reseller and I have a potential client that needs
: 2 sites hosted but one requires ASP. Recommendations?
: 
: 
: Todd Ballard
: T:512.577.4589
: F:512.989.7310
: E:todd at nhive.com

try:
http://www.boundgrid.net/
Been using them for four months.  Unlimited domains, good bandwidth, 
great and fast service, support for PHP, ASP and ASP.NET, etc, etc.
<disclaimer type="no-affiliation" />

-Stephen Caudill
http://www.mechavox.com/

From seyon at delime.com  Wed Nov  5 09:14:33 2003
From: seyon at delime.com (Marc Seyon)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:14:33 -0400
Subject: [thelist] ASCii: html name vs html number
In-Reply-To: <000501c3a39a$a144fd50$640110ac@americancustomercare.com>
References: <BBCD8F37.7E2D%Jono@brookgroup.com>
 <3FA83153.1010601@stoutstreet.com>
 <6.0.0.22.0.20031105073101.023cacb0@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20031105111359.01ef8a78@mail.delime.com>

Message from Brian Cummiskey (11/5/2003 07:44 AM)
>I'm using an XHTML strict utf-8 charset, and I am wanting to use the ">>" 
>character.
>
>According to a chart i found, &raquo; does the same thing as #&187 - one 
>is the html
>name, one is the html number.

You meant &#187; right?

regards.
-marc

--
Carnival 2003 in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com
http://www.playyuhself.com/

From SCaudill at municode.com  Wed Nov  5 09:49:32 2003
From: SCaudill at municode.com (Stephen Caudill)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:49:32 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online
Message-ID: <77025926DDD85A4D886C5B8A34E43E742D778B@exchange.internal.municode.com>

Damien COLA on Wednesday, November 05, 2003 9:46 AM said:

: And the link, I am sorry but although it's good to say once that
: NO VISUAL can be protected when put on the web, it's boring to
: see people writing whole pages about that and other people
: relaying the links.. That's not good information, it's just
: mental masturbation. 

Damien,

You're entitled to your opinion.  I however find it boring to see
repetitive questions that have been answered on numerous occasions
and even in concurrent threads (see "hiding html source" from today
and yesterday).  I also happen to think the head lemur's article on
hiding source is not only "good information", it's The Only 
Information on the subject that is useful.  Take it, leave it, or
mentally masturbate with it as you please.

-Stephen Caudill
http://www.mechavox.com/

From taz at madfolk.com  Wed Nov  5 10:02:16 2003
From: taz at madfolk.com (Tarrant Costelloe)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:02:16 -0000
Subject: [thelist] host recommendation for ASP
In-Reply-To: <000001c3a37a$f7488b10$edaef63f@toddb>
Message-ID: <003b01c3a3b6$31f12b10$280c6d51@hobbit>

We use http://www.hostinguk.net/ for small accounts that need a cheap,
low hassle quick turn around... Else we use us :P

Regards,
 
Tarrant Costelloe
Technical Director
madfolk.com (.co.uk) - Reforming Media 
(+44) 01903 523414.


-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Todd Ballard
Sent: 05 November 2003 08:58
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] host recommendation for ASP


I am a nix host reseller and I have a potential client that needs 2
sites hosted but one requires ASP. Recommendations?


Todd Ballard
T:512.577.4589
F:512.989.7310
E:todd at nhive.com

-- 
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 




From joel at spinhead.com  Wed Nov  5 10:05:49 2003
From: joel at spinhead.com (Joel D Canfield)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:05:49 -0800
Subject: evolt.org lists archive (was RE: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio
	Images Online WATERMARK)
Message-ID: <72E9FAA171D63B48AAC707C72900E6B45A1CF9@ireland.spinhead.com>

>     As for the archives on this issue, can someone please 
> point me to where I can find those archives?

http://lists.evolt.org/ will get you to the home of all evolt.org's
lists. You can search or browse ad nauseum.

spinhead

From evolt at muinar.com  Wed Nov  5 10:11:29 2003
From: evolt at muinar.com (muinar)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 17:11:29 +0100
Subject: [thelist] Site Check
In-Reply-To: <001c01c3a390$b24859d0$597586d9@co.uk>
References: <89155A7D-0F6C-11D8-A84E-003065A5B276@brightstorm.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20031105170754.00a360c0@mail.muinar.com>

At 12:33 05.11.03, you wrote:

Suggestions for a simple trick to make it look nicer:

At the homepage, the red bar is less wide than the content. On the
following page it is the other way around. Just make content and
red bars the same width, and it should look a little bit cleaner.

Mike


From webmaster at lemurzone.com  Wed Nov  5 10:21:12 2003
From: webmaster at lemurzone.com (webmaster)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:21:12 -0700
Subject: [thelist] host recommendation for ASP
References: <000001c3a37a$f7488b10$edaef63f@toddb>
Message-ID: <00ae01c3a3b9$13c28be0$0200a8c0@ph.cox.net>



> I am a nix host reseller and I have a potential client that needs 2
> sites hosted but one requires ASP. Recommendations?

Crystaltech.com

From magic32 at jps.net  Wed Nov  5 10:27:25 2003
From: magic32 at jps.net (Roger Harness)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:27:25 -0800
Subject: [thelist] ot - downloaded file?
Message-ID: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCCEPKMAAA.magic32@jps.net>

Hello folks,

Sorry for the off-topic'ness of this, but does anybody know of any ideas on
trying to find a downloaded (?) file?

its a 129+ meg file (col3929.exe) that took me about 8 hours to d/l on a 56k
line.

I tried to get in using IE6, but it kept quitting the download. So finally I
tried using Mozilla 1.0 and that *seemed* to get it.

It just now stopped, and i cant seem to find anywhere! I've tried "Find"ing
it using any version of "col3929.exe" but not having ANY luck.

Does anybody know some crazy miracle that might help me
find/retrieve/salvage this file??

tia,

-Roger Harness


From raskenbo at fastmail.fm  Wed Nov  5 10:43:54 2003
From: raskenbo at fastmail.fm (Ken Chase)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:43:54 -0500
Subject: [thelist] ASCii: html name vs html number
In-Reply-To: <000501c3a39a$a144fd50$640110ac@americancustomercare.com>
References: <BBCD8F37.7E2D%Jono@brookgroup.com>
	<3FA83153.1010601@stoutstreet.com>
	<000501c3a39a$a144fd50$640110ac@americancustomercare.com>
Message-ID: <20031105164354.56B4D40699@server1.messagingengine.com>


On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:44:59 -0500, "Brian Cummiskey"
<brian at hondaswap.com> said:
> I'm using an XHTML strict utf-8 charset, and I am wanting to use the ">>"
> character.
> 
> According to a chart i found, &raquo; does the same thing as #&187 - one
> is the html
> name, one is the html number.
> 
> which is more widely supported?  Moreover, which is the more correct
> version to use,
> given my charset? Any limitations to either?
> 
> Thanks

Several of the named entities (for example &endash;) are not supported by
Netscape 4 and possibly other browsers. I have yet to see a character
reference (for example #&187) not appear correctly in a browser. Please
note that I have not done extensive reserach on this topic.

One way of testing this is to view the chosen character on the following
site using a variety of browsers. 

"The following table lists all known HTML entity names along with their
ASCII / ISO 8859-1 (Latin-1) character names and codes, if any."

<http://www.bbsinc.com/iso8859.html>

kenbo

From nadeem at essex.ac.uk  Wed Nov  5 11:08:55 2003
From: nadeem at essex.ac.uk (Ahmad, Nadeem)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:08:55 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Exchange Hosting?
Message-ID: <7AC902A40BEDD411A3A800D0B7847B66134D5E8F@sernt14.essex.ac.uk>

I'm after a hosting company that can host/outsource (whatever its
called) MS Exchange for me - I've have about 5 users, but reliability is
important to me. I would like someone UK based.

Any recommendations/pitfalls to watch for - anyone done his before?

Cheers

Nadeem

From Jono at brookgroup.com  Wed Nov  5 11:46:34 2003
From: Jono at brookgroup.com (Jono Young)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:46:34 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online
In-Reply-To: <77025926DDD85A4D886C5B8A34E43E742D778B@exchange.internal.municode.com>
Message-ID: <BBCEA1A9.7ED1%Jono@brookgroup.com>

That's all good and fine, but can someone point me to the archives of
theList's previous topics that have been discussed...so I can find answers
there before reposting, perhaps?  I don't have time to Google em' right now,
or surf for it.  If not I'll just dig em' up later.

Thanks,

On 11/5/03 10:49 AM, "Stephen Caudill" <SCaudill at municode.com> wrote:

> Damien,
> 
> You're entitled to your opinion.  I however find it boring to see
> repetitive questions that have been answered on numerous occasions
> and even in concurrent threads

-- 
Jono Young
Designer/Illustrator



From jon.ambrose at btopenworld.com  Wed Nov  5 11:48:14 2003
From: jon.ambrose at btopenworld.com (Jon Ambrose)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:48:14 -0000
Subject: [thelist] host recommendation for ASP
References: <000001c3a37a$f7488b10$edaef63f@toddb>
	<00ae01c3a3b9$13c28be0$0200a8c0@ph.cox.net>
Message-ID: <036c01c3a3c4$ff7b8b30$2be48351@JONO>

fasthosts
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "webmaster" <webmaster at lemurzone.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: [thelist] host recommendation for ASP


> 
> 
> > I am a nix host reseller and I have a potential client that needs 2
> > sites hosted but one requires ASP. Recommendations?
> 
> Crystaltech.com
> -- 
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
> 
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
> Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
> 


From Ed at ComSimplicity.com  Wed Nov  5 12:01:47 2003
From: Ed at ComSimplicity.com (Ed McCarroll)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:01:47 -0800
Subject: [thelist] hiding html source code
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20031104220634.01f16618@mail.delime.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLLCLKJDNHHNPAAHHAEFJFOAA.Ed@ComSimplicity.com>

> 1. Do you really want to work with clients who you believe would 
> stoop so low as stealing your source code to cheat you out of
> your just deserves?

Even if I really knew the client well enough to predict that kind
of thing, I still need the job.

> 2. What message does it send to these clients when they do attempt
> to view your source code? Doesn't seem very trust inspiring to me.

Those who take offense will be few.  Nearly every software package
you can buy off the shelf has some kind of copy protection.  It's
a nuisance, but I hardly expect Intuit, Symantec, or Micro$oft to
trust me until they really know me.  And if a prospective client 
really wants to look at some of my code, they can ask.  (And I'll
accommodate them.)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ed McCarroll                          MailTo:Ed at ComSimplicity.com
ComSimplicity                                      (310) 838-4330
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

From robert at thewhitehousegroup.com  Wed Nov  5 12:07:12 2003
From: robert at thewhitehousegroup.com (Robert)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 13:07:12 -0500
Subject: [thelist] ASP question - User List Update
Message-ID: <BBCEA680.22E7%robert@thewhitehousegroup.com>

I was able to answer my own question after doing a little research. I'm
posting the finalized script for anyone who has a similar need:

<%
'Set Constants
Const ForReading = 1, ForWriting = 2, ForAppending = 8

'find out this particular users name
name=request.Cookies("name")

'find out this particular users Color
color=request.Cookies("color")

Set fs = server.CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")

Set wfile = fs.OpenTextFile(server.mappath("users.dat"))

do while not wfile.AtEndOfStream
filecontent=wfile.ReadLine
if filecontent="<font face=Verdana size=2 color="& color &">"& name &"<br>"
then
filecontent=" "
end if
finalcontent=finalcontent & filecontent
loop

wfile.close
Set wfile=nothing
Set fs=nothing

' Open the data file for reading
Set objFS = Server.CreateObject ("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
set objFile = objFS.GetFile(server.mappath("users.dat"))

'write the new data to the file
set objFile = objFS.CreateTextFile(server.mappath("users.dat"), true)
objFile.WriteLine(finalcontent)
objFile.close
%>

<html>
<head>
<title>Logoff</title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" onLoad=window.close()>

<font face=Verdana size=2 color=000000>User Logged Off Of Chat Server</font>
</body>
</html>


Thanks!

~Qixsilver


From SCaudill at municode.com  Wed Nov  5 12:47:37 2003
From: SCaudill at municode.com (Stephen Caudill)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:47:37 -0500
Subject: [thelist] ot - downloaded file?
Message-ID: <77025926DDD85A4D886C5B8A34E43E7420BE60@exchange.internal.municode.com>

Roger Harness on Wednesday, November 05, 2003 11:27 AM said:

: I tried to get in using IE6, but it kept quitting the download.
: So finally I tried using Mozilla 1.0 and that *seemed* to get it.

In Mozilla, go to Tools>Download Manager.  Find your file in the
list and click the "Launch File" or "Show File Location" button.
voila!

-Stephen Caudill
http://www.mechavox.com/

From keith.underdown at qconsultancy.co.uk  Wed Nov  5 12:53:44 2003
From: keith.underdown at qconsultancy.co.uk (Keith Underdown)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 18:53:44 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Exchange Hosting?
In-Reply-To: <7AC902A40BEDD411A3A800D0B7847B66134D5E8F@sernt14.essex.ac.uk>
References: <7AC902A40BEDD411A3A800D0B7847B66134D5E8F@sernt14.essex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <oprx6hfuq61qbhmw@mail.qconsultancy.co.uk>

Try www.officeontheweb.co.uk and tell them I sent you!

Keith
-- 
Keith Underdown (Managing Director)
The Q Consultancy Ltd
KALIDO Information Archtectures Specialists
+44 7798 934782
www.qconsultancy.co.uk

From thelist at meidomus.com  Wed Nov  5 12:50:38 2003
From: thelist at meidomus.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:50:38 +0300
Subject: [thelist] ot - downloaded file?
In-Reply-To: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCCEPKMAAA.magic32@jps.net>
References: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCCEPKMAAA.magic32@jps.net>
Message-ID: <3FA9467E.9040209@meidomus.com>

Roger Harness wrote:

> Hello folks,
> 
> Sorry for the off-topic'ness of this, but does anybody know of any ideas on
> trying to find a downloaded (?) file?
> 
> its a 129+ meg file (col3929.exe) that took me about 8 hours to d/l on a 56k
> line.
> 
> I tried to get in using IE6, but it kept quitting the download. So finally I
> tried using Mozilla 1.0 and that *seemed* to get it.
> 
> It just now stopped, and i cant seem to find anywhere! I've tried "Find"ing
> it using any version of "col3929.exe" but not having ANY luck.
> 
> Does anybody know some crazy miracle that might help me
> find/retrieve/salvage this file??

Check your C:\Documents and Settings\User Name\Application Data folder 
(its hidden by default)

Also worth digging around are the various temp folders in \Windows

This is where user account specific application settings are stored. 
Search for filesize match, as the name might be different. I know IE 
stores the file with some weird temp. name while downloading, then moves 
and renames it when its finished.

hth,
-- 
Burhan Khalid
thelist[at]meidomus[dot]com
http://www.meidomus.com


From cneppes at port80software.com  Wed Nov  5 12:37:15 2003
From: cneppes at port80software.com (Chris Neppes)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:37:15 -0800
Subject: [thelist] w3compiler: hiding html source code
Message-ID: <D0E8117DBE110546B7C1781660DD579A1A6436@mailbox.port80software.com>

RE:

:: From: "michael ensor" <edc at wnc.quik.co.nz>
:: To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
:: Subject: Re: [thelist] hiding html source code

:: as a matter of idle curiosity I ran the url page through the
validator, it :: returned 87 errors!

:: ----- Original Message -----
:: From: "Chris Neppes" <cneppes at port80software.com>
:: To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
:: Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 7:40 AM
:: Subject: RE: [thelist] hiding html source code


:: : You can crunch and obfuscate your source code, including
JavaScript,
:: : safely with the w3compiler...
:: :
:: : www.w3compiler.com


::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Michael,

Well, nobody is perfect!

The non-validation of www.w3compiler.com was not introduced by the
w3compiler code optimization tool, but was a content management flub.
Apologies!

You can see the source code for this page is safely obfuscated and
crunched, all produced by w3compiler.  Here's what the tool did to the
code:

- White space, comments and lower casing have been optimized
- File names have been remapped, shortened and thus obfuscated
- This file was reduced in size by 8% with the w3compiler, making it
transmit and load faster for users (w3comipler usually gets 10-15%
reduction on HTML/CSS files, 20-30% on JavaScript files, and some real
world pages have been crunched by 70% in our labs).
- The compiler offers other optimization functionality not applied here,
including JavaScript code condensing.

Here is the crunched http:///www.w3compiler.com -- notice the
differences: 


<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"><html><head><t
itle>w3compiler: the developer tool for mark-up and JavaScript
optimization</title><meta http-equiv="imagetoolbar" content="no" /><meta
http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
/><meta http-equiv="content-language" content="en" /><meta
name="keywords" content="" /><meta name="description"
content="w3compiler" /><meta name="organization" content="w3compiler"
/><link rel="stylesheet" href="/0/a" type="text/css" media="screen"
/><link rel="stylesheet" href="/0/b" type="text/css" media="print"
/><script src="/1/a" language="javascript"
type="text/javascript"></script><script src="/1/d" language="javascript"
type="text/javascript"></script><script src="/1/t" language="javascript"
type="text/javascript"></script><script language="javascript"
type="text/javascript"><!--
function pt(){document.write('<a
href="javascript:display_next(\'HS_define\')"><img
src="images/takethetour" width="174" height="69" alt="Take the Tour"
title="Take the Tour" class="inlineimage" border="0" /><br
/></a>');document.write('<img src="images/space" width="174" height="5"
alt="Take the Tour" title="Take the Tour" class="inlineimage" border="0"
/><br /></a>')}function pi(h,t){document.write('<a
href="javascript:display_next(\''+h+'\')"><img src="images/'+h+'"
width="174" height="200" alt="'+t+'" title="'+t+'" class="inlineimage"
border="0" /><br /></a>')}//-->
</script></head><body bgcolor="white" text="black" link="#006699"
vlink="#006699" alink="#cc6600"><center><table width="760" border="0"
cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td width="10" rowspan="3"><img
src="/0/ac" width="10" height="1" alt="" border="0" /></td> <td
width="145" valign="top" align="left"><img src="/0/z" width="145"
height="60" alt="w3compiler logo" title="w3compiler" border="0" /></td>
<td width="265" valign="top" align="left"><img src="/0/ac" width="265"
height="6" alt="" border="0" /></td> <td width="48" valign="top"
align="left" class="np"><a href="try" onmouseover="On('try');status='Try
(www.w3compiler.com/try)';return true" onmouseout="Off('try')"><img
src="/0/m" id="try" name="try" width="48" height="60" alt="Try"
title="Try" border="0" /></a></td> <td width="53" valign="top"
align="left" class="np"><a href="buy" onmouseover="On('buy');status='Buy
(www.w3compiler.com/buy)';return true" onmouseout="Off('buy')"><img
src="/0/i" id="buy" name="buy" width="53" height="60" alt="Buy"
title="Buy" border="0" /></a></td> <td width="58" valign="top"
align="left" class="np"><a href="faqs"
onmouseover="On('faqs');status='FAQs (www.w3compiler.com/faqs)';return
true" onmouseout="Off('faqs')"><img src="/0/k" id="faqs" name="faqs"
width="58" height="60" alt="FAQs" title="FAQs" border="0" /></a></td>
<td width="85" valign="top" align="left" class="np"><a href="support/"
onmouseover="On('support');status='Support
(www.w3compiler.com/support)';return true"
onmouseout="Off('support')"><img src="/0/l" id="support" name="support"
width="85" height="60" alt="Support" title="Support" border="0"
/></a></td> <td width="86" valign="top" align="left" class="np"><a
href="contact/" onmouseover="On('contact');status='Contact
(www.w3compiler.com/contact)';return true"
onmouseout="Off('contact')"><img src="/0/j" id="contact" name="contact"
width="86" height="60" alt="Contact" title="Contact" border="0"
/></a></td> <td width="10" rowspan="3"><img src="/0/ac" width="10"
height="1" alt="" border="0" /></td> </tr><tr><td width="740"
colspan="7" bgcolor="#f5e0cc" class="np"><img src="/0/af" width="740"
height="125" alt="Fully optimize your code for Faster and Safer Web site
delivery with w3compiler!" title="Fully optimize your code for Faster
and Safer Web site delivery with w3compiler!" border="0"
class="inlineimage" /></td> </tr><tr><td width="740" colspan="7"
bgcolor="#f5e0cc" class="np"><img src="/0/ac" width="740" height="30"
alt="" border="0" /></td> </tr></table><table width="760" border="0"
cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td width="10" rowspan="2"><img
src="/0/ac" width="10" height="1" alt="" border="0" /></td> <td
width="9" bgcolor="#f5e0cc"><img src="/0/ac" width="9" height="1" alt=""
border="0" /></td> <td width="539" valign="top" align="right"
bgcolor="#f5e0cc"><img src="/0/ab" width="539" height="461" alt=""
border="0" /> <table width="539" border="0" cellpadding="5"
cellspacing="0"><tr><td width="20" bgcolor="#fbf3eb"><img src="/0/ac"
width="20" height="1" alt="" border="0" /></td> <td width="499"
valign="top" align="left" bgcolor="#fbf3eb"><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" color="#993300"><b
class="producthead">w3compiler -- Powerful Mark-up and JavaScript
Optimization for faster &amp; safer sites</b><br /><br /></font><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1"> Your
Web site users want speed, and you want a more secure site that is
cheaper to deliver. Inefficient JavaScript, pretty markup, and even
white space won't help you achieve this. Unoptimized files waste
precious bandwidth, forcing visitors to wait longer, and make your hard
work that much easier to steal by viewing source! Stop researching all
the tricks and wasting time to trim the fat and obfuscate your code
properly like Google, Yahoo and other sites do -- optimize your Web
application easily with w3compiler.<br /><br /><b>A Compiler for Web
Sites</b><br /> Like a traditional programming language compiler,
w3compiler optimizes all or selected (X)HTML, CSS, JavaScript, ASP, and
CFM files in your site. This desktop client software removes redundant
structures from your site -- creating optimized, exact duplicates of
your pages ready for fast delivery and rendering on any Web browser.<br
/><br /><b>w3compiler Works the Way Developers Work</b><br /> Create
pages in your unoptimized, developer-friendly markup and script, and
then when you are done with edits, let the tool automatically optimize
the changes and deploy them in your target Web server directory.
w3compiler fully mirrors your site, picking up all required files for
deployment, making site optimization a natural final step before
launching new pages.<br /><br /><b>Safe &amp; Powerful Markup and Style
Optimization</b><br /> Feed w3compiler your perfect XHTML and that's
what your optimized targets will be: perfect XHTML. No broken pages from
removing DTD statements, quotes, or swapping tags. Feed it less than
stellar markup, and your pages still won't break! w3compiler always
employs safe compression techniques, erring on the side of safety. Of
course, you can always verify your work -- side-by-side visual and code
comparison tools and markup validation is only a click away.<br /><br
/><b>Real JavaScript Compression Today</b><br /> Way beyond markup,
w3compiler offers the best JavaScript optimization on the market. The
JavaScript compilation used in w3copiler uses a complete JavaScript
parser, making w3compiler the most advanced JavaScript compressor
available today. Variables, functions, objects, redundant syntax are all
reduced to minimal form automatically! Other obfuscators and compressors
will ruin all but the simplest code, while the w3compiler is so
syntax-aware that it won't even break sloppy code with intermittent
semi-colon usage and other common errors. <br /><br /><b>Advanced
Features with Room to Grow</b><br /> As a framework, w3compiler is very
extensible. This initial version not only optimizes HTML, CSS and
JavaScript files but can manage file names and extensions as well.
Optionally, w3compiler can make sites smaller and more secure by
renaming CSS, JS, and multimedia files not seen in URLs to minimal form.
The tool easily strips or modifies file extensions within HTML files,
allowing developers to enable persistent, negotiable "<a
href="http://www.port80software.com/support/articles/nextgenerationurls"
target="_blank">clean URLs</a>" using Port80's IIS server module, <a
href="http://www.pagexchanger.com/" target="_blank">PageXchanger</a>.
Future versions will support even more functionality, including improved
HTML/CSS/JS compression and dynamic page compilation. w3compiler is the
perfect platform for your development deployment needs now and in the
future. <br /><br /> For full performance optimization on the Windows
Web server side, make sure to try <a href="http://www.httpzip.com"
target="_blank">httpZip</a> for HTTP compression &amp; acceleration and
<a href="http://www.cacheright.com" target="_blank">CacheRight</a> for
cache control header management (for developers) as well. <br /><br
/></font><font color="#993300"><b
class="subhead1">Benefits</b></font><br /><ul class="body1"><li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1"><b>Save
bandwidth &amp; money:</b></font> <ul class="body1"><li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">Reduces
file sizes 10-15% for common HTML and CSS files</font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">Further
reduces file sizes by 20-30% for JavaScript</font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1">Compression rates as high as 70% in tested real world
pages!</font></li> </ul></li><li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1"><b>Speed up your site &amp; make your users
happy</b></font></li> <li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif"
size="-1" class="body1"><b>Secure your code:</b> Protect against hacker
source sifting with more obscured JavaScript, file names, and optimized
markup and style sheets</font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1"><b>Safe:</b> Preserves hard work by employing reliable
code compression that recognizes common Web standards such as HTML, CSS
and JavaScript</font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1"><b>Part
of your work flow:</b> Works with common Web development practices using
staging and production sites</font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1"><b>Simple &amp; powerful:</b> Eases deployment tasks by
copying entire or selected sites</font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1"><b>Check your code visually:</b> Delivers verifiable
optimization through dash board metrics and side-by-side preview
interface</font></li> </ul><font color="#993300"><b
class="subhead1">Features</b></font><br /><ul class="body1"><li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">Safe
optimization of Web sites<br /></font><ul class="body1"><li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">Works
with (X)HTML, CSS, JavaScript, ASP, and CFML files</font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">Does
not harm existing files</font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1">Roll-back feature restores any optimized file to its
original form</font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1">Conservative optimization to insure code and markup
quality is preserved </font></li></ul></li><li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">Useful
byte-shaving improvements for markup and style<br /></font><ul
class="body1"><li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif"
size="-1" class="body1">Smart white space reduction</font></li>
<li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1">Color remapping and entity reduction</font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">META
tag management</font></li> </ul></li><li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">True
JavaScript code optimization<br /></font><ul class="body1"><li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">Shorten
long, user-defined variables, functions and objects</font></li>
<li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1">Remapping of long built-in JavaScript object
names</font></li> <li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif"
size="-1" class="body1">Other code optimization and byte-shaving
features</font></li> </ul></li><li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">Unique
advanced site preparation features<br /></font><ul
class="body1"><li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif"
size="-1" class="body1">Rename image, CSS &amp; JavaScript files for
smaller and more secure sites</font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">File
extension removal for <a href="http://www.pagexchanger.com/"
target="_blank">content negotiation</a> option</font></li>
</ul></li><li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1">Compiler-style framework with project files<br
/></font><ul class="body1"><li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">Save
common settings</font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1">Selectively compress based upon changes</font></li>
<li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1">Full or selective optimization and deployment of
files</font></li> <li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif"
size="-1" class="body1">Fully configurable with advanced
options</font></li> <li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif"
size="-1" class="body1">Full statistics and logging of
projects</font></li> <li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif"
size="-1" class="body1">Extensible framework allows addition of new
features</font></li> </ul></li><li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1">Internal preview and comparison system<br /></font><ul
class="body1"><li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif"
size="-1" class="body1">Visually preview original and optimized pages
side by side</font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">Code
comparison allows easy comparison of before and after code</font></li>
</ul></li><li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1">Integration with online validation services</font></li>
<li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1">External editor and browser integration<br /></font><ul
class="body1"><li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif"
size="-1" class="body1">Edit and view optimized and un-optimized pages
in your favorite editor</font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">Preview
any page in an external Web browser of your choice</font></li>
</ul></li><li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1">Multiple interfaces for multiple uses<br /></font><ul
class="body1"><li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif"
size="-1" class="body1">Fully configurable and easy-to-use GUI
interface</font></li> <li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif"
size="-1" class="body1">Command line interface for integration with
editors and batch optimization scripts</font></li> </ul></li><li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">Simple
install/uninstall process</font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">Low
resource footprint</font></li> </ul><font color="#993300"><b
class="subhead1">Requirements</b></font><br /><ul
class="body1"><li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif"
size="-1" class="body1">Windows 2000/XP/2003</font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">64MB of
RAM Minimum</font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1">Available disk space directly or on network for copy of
site</font></li> </ul><font color="#993300"><b class="subhead1">Pricing
&amp; Purchasing</b></font><br /><ul class="body1"><li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1"><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">Free
15-Day Trial Download - <b><a href="try">FREE
trial!</a></b></font></font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1"><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">Single
Computer License - <b><a href="buy">$79.95</a></b></font></font></li>
<li><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1"><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1"
class="body1">Five (5) or More Computer Licenses - <b><a
href="contact/quote">Get a quote</a></b></font></font></li> <li><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1"><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1">Pioneer
User Special - <b>Free lifetime upgrades if you purchase before December
15, 2003</b></font></font></li> </ul><a href="try"
onmouseover="On('try');status='Try (www.w3compiler.com/try)';return
true" onmouseout="Off('try')"><img src="/0/ak" width="109" height="30"
alt="Free Trial" title="Free Trial" class="inlineimage" border="0"
/></a><img src="/0/ac" width="10" height="1" alt="" border="0"
class="inlineimage" /><a href="buy" onmouseover="On('buy');status='Buy
(www.w3compiler.com/buy)';return true" onmouseout="Off('buy')"><img
src="/0/al" width="55" height="30" alt="Buy" title="Buy"
class="inlineimage" border="0" /></a> </td><td width="20"
bgcolor="#fbf3eb"><img src="/0/ac" width="20" height="1" alt=""
border="0" /></td> </tr><tr><td width="20" bgcolor="#fbf3eb"><img
src="/0/ac" width="20" height="1" alt="" border="0" /></td> <td
width="499" bgcolor="#fbf3eb" align="left"><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-1" class="body1"><b>Our
Guarantee to You:</b> Port80 Software is a growing company, and we stand
behind our products 100%. Port80 pledges to work with you to ensure our
products work to your satisfaction and truly make your Web applications
safer, faster and friendlier. </font><br /><br /><img src="/0/ae"
width="101" height="47" alt="Microsoft Certified Partner Logo"
title="Microsoft Certified Partner" class="inlineimage" border="0" />
</td><td width="20" bgcolor="#fbf3eb"><img src="/0/ac" width="20"
height="1" alt="" border="0" /></td> </tr></table><table width="539"
border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="np"><tr><td
width="539" bgcolor="#fbf3eb"><img src="/0/ag" width="539" height="20"
alt="" border="0" /></td> </tr></table></td><td width="9"
bgcolor="#f5e0cc"><img src="/0/ac" width="9" height="1" alt=""
border="0" /></td> <td width="174" valign="top" align="left"
bgcolor="#f5e0cc" class="np"><img src="/0/ac" width="174" height="1"
alt="" border="0" class="inlineimage" /><br /><script
language="javascript" type="text/javascript"><!--
pt();//-->
</script><script language="javascript" type="text/javascript"><!--
pi('HS_define','Define Your Project');//-->
</script><noscript><img src="images/HS_define" width="174" height="200"
alt="Define Your Project" title="Define Your Project"
class="inlineimage" border="0" /><br /></noscript><img
src="images/space" width="174" height="5" alt="" border="0"
class="inlineimage" /><br /><script language="javascript"
type="text/javascript"><!--
pi('HS_setoptions','Set your options');//-->
</script><noscript><img src="images/HS_setoptions" width="174"
height="200" alt="Set your options" title="Set your options"
class="inlineimage" border="0" /><br /></noscript><img
src="images/space" width="174" height="5" alt="" border="0"
class="inlineimage" /><br /><script language="javascript"
type="text/javascript"><!--
pi('HS_compile','Compile your site');//-->
</script><noscript><img src="images/HS_compile" width="174" height="200"
alt="Compile your site" title="Compile your site" class="inlineimage"
border="0" /><br /></noscript><img src="images/space" width="174"
height="10" alt="" border="0" class="inlineimage" /><br /><a href="try"
onmouseover="On('try');status='Try (www.w3compiler.com/try)';return
true" onmouseout="Off('try')"><img src="/0/d" width="109" height="30"
alt="Free Trial" title="Free Trial" class="inlineimage" border="0"
/></a><img src="/0/ac" width="10" height="1" alt="" border="0"
class="inlineimage" /><a href="buy" onmouseover="On('buy');status='Buy
(www.w3compiler.com/buy)';return true" onmouseout="Off('buy')"><img
src="/0/c" width="55" height="30" alt="Buy" title="Buy"
class="inlineimage" border="0" /></a> </td><td width="9"
bgcolor="#f5e0cc"><img src="/0/ac" width="9" height="1" alt=""
border="0" /></td> <td width="10" rowspan="2"><img src="/0/ac"
width="10" height="1" alt="" border="0" /></td> </tr><tr><td width="740"
colspan="5" bgcolor="#f5e0cc" class="np"><img src="/0/y" width="740"
height="30" alt="" border="0" /></td> </tr></table><table width="760"
border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td width="20"><img
src="/0/ac" width="20" height="1" alt="" border="0" /></td> <td
width="418" align="left" class="np"><img src="/0/ac" width="418"
height="28" alt="" border="0" class="inlineimage" /><br /><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-2" color="#cc6600"
class="footernav"><font color="#b2d1e0">home</font> | <a href="try"
class="footernav">try</a> | <a href="buy" class="footernav">buy</a> | <a
href="faqs" class="footernav">faqs</a> | <a href="support/"
class="footernav">support</a> | <a href="contact/"
class="footernav">contact</a> </font></td><td width="200"
align="right"><img src="/0/ac" width="200" height="28" alt="" border="0"
class="inlineimage" /><br /><font
face="verdana,arial,helvetica,san-serif" size="-2" color="#cc6600"
class="footernav"> brought to you by </font></td><td width="122"><a
href="http://www.port80software.com/" target="_blank"><img src="/0/aa"
width="122" height="66" alt="Port80 Software Logo" title="Port80
Software" border="0" /></a></td> </tr></table><br
/></center></body></html>

You can download a fully functional trial at the same page online,
www.w3compiler.com.

Best,
Chris


     ::::::::::     ::::::::::

 Chris Neppes
 Port80 Software, Inc. 
 www.port80software.com  

 5252 Balboa Ave., Ste. 605 
 San Diego, CA 92117 
 cneppes at port80software.com
 858.268.7960 voice
 619.733.7484 cell 
 858.268.7760 fax

 Web server modules for Microsoft IIS.
  security. performance. user experience.

 Developers of the w3compiler 
  for mark-up & JavaScript code optimization.


From stowaway at uklinux.net  Wed Nov  5 13:01:26 2003
From: stowaway at uklinux.net (joe)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 19:01:26 +0000
Subject: [thelist] ot - downloaded file?
In-Reply-To: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCCEPKMAAA.magic32@jps.net>
References: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCCEPKMAAA.magic32@jps.net>
Message-ID: <3FA94906.9070002@uklinux.net>

Hi Roger

If you did download in it Mozilla it should be listed in your download 
manager - Tools > Download Manager - you can then go to 'Show in Explorer'

hth

joe


From SCaudill at municode.com  Wed Nov  5 13:26:21 2003
From: SCaudill at municode.com (Stephen Caudill)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:26:21 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online
Message-ID: <77025926DDD85A4D886C5B8A34E43E7420BE62@exchange.internal.municode.com>

Jono Young on Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:47 PM said:

: That's all good and fine, but can someone point me to the
: archives of theList's previous topics that have been
: discussed...so I can find answers there before reposting,
: perhaps?  I don't have time to Google em' right now, or surf for
: it.  If not I'll just dig em' up later. 
: 
: Thanks,
: 
: On 11/5/03 10:49 AM, "Stephen Caudill" <SCaudill at municode.com>
: wrote: 
: 
:: Damien,
:: 
:: You're entitled to your opinion.  I however find it boring to see
:: repetitive questions that have been answered on numerous
:: occasions and even in concurrent threads
: 
: --
: Jono Young
: Designer/Illustrator

Question was answered in message from spinhead in thread:
"evolt.org lists archive (was RE: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio 
Images Online WATERMARK)"
around 2 hours ago.  please reference.

Also, not having time to Google, to me, just means you only have time
for others to do your research for you.  poor form.

From kwan at tourismwhistler.com  Wed Nov  5 13:23:33 2003
From: kwan at tourismwhistler.com (Ken Wan)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:23:33 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Re: thelist Digest, Vol 9, Issue 10
In-Reply-To: <BLACKCOMB5YGmKIJ6ih00000054@mail.tourismwhistler.com>
Message-ID: <BBCE8E35.65E3%kwan@tourismwhistler.com>

Thanks Paul.

After I left work yesterday (actually, late at night when my brain processes
stuff before bed), I realized what I was doing wrong. I have to remember the
box model! I was applying one style to both the <form> and the <input> tags
when I really needed to make two styles, one for each tag.

I now got it working the way I need.

Much appreciated.
Ken

On 11/5/03 3:40 AM, "thelist-request at lists.evolt.org"
<thelist-request at lists.evolt.org> wrote:

>> ...
>> 
>> When I try to create a class to apply to the form, it completely buggers it
>> up, clipping the field/button without repositioning the text. In addition,
>> the field and the button are not the same height.
>> 
>> Any suggestions/ideas?...
>> 
> you can acess the style properties of form components directly:
> eg:
> 
> input
>   {
>   height: 20px;
>   width: 100px;
>   border: solid 1px #000;
>   }
> 
> etc.
> 
> by giving id's / classes to your form components (selects, radois,
> inputs etc) you can style input type="text" differently from input
> type="submit" for example
> 
> Does that help?


From paul at teltest.com  Wed Nov  5 14:41:56 2003
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 09:41:56 +1300
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online
In-Reply-To: <BBCEA1A9.7ED1%Jono@brookgroup.com>
References: <BBCEA1A9.7ED1%Jono@brookgroup.com>
Message-ID: <3FA96094.106@teltest.com>

Jono Young wrote:

>That's all good and fine, but can someone point me to the archives of
>theList's previous topics that have been discussed...so I can find answers
>there before reposting, perhaps?  I don't have time to Google em' right now,
>or surf for it.  If not I'll just dig em' up later.
>
FYI
you can set this as a bookmark for theList archives search (via google): 
(watch wrap)
javascript:term=prompt('Search%20thelist%20Archives:');if(term!=null){location='http://www.google.com/search?as_q='+term+'&as_sitesearch=lists.evolt.org&safe=on&submit=Go';}



-- 
 ------------------------------
	Paul Bennett						
	Internet Developer				
	Teltest Electronic Design		
 ------------------------------			
Email: paul at teltest.com				
Phone: 64 4 237 4557					
Web: http://www.teltest.com		
Wap: http://wap.teltest.com			



From damiencola at wanadoo.fr  Wed Nov  5 14:41:46 2003
From: damiencola at wanadoo.fr (Damien COLA)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:41:46 +0100
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online
In-Reply-To: <BBCEA1A9.7ED1%Jono@brookgroup.com>
Message-ID: <001201c3a3dd$3ae6ccd0$0100a8c0@ELECTRA>

Honestly when I read your message I understand the position of people
who are bored with people not making any effort at all...
You could go to evolt website and look for archives, or you could simply
open your eyes and at the bottom of each email you have your answer..
But just for clarification : what I find boring is when there are many
answers to one question saying more that it is pointless to try to
protect content on the web. I just said that one should answer correctly
or not answer at all.
Well, it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it ;-)
But I reckon it's easier said than done, myself I sometimes send emails
to a list, emails that are helpless.

Cheers,
Damien

-----Original Message-----
That's all good and fine, but can someone point me to the archives of
theList's previous topics that have been discussed...so I can find
answers there before reposting, perhaps?  I don't have time to Google
em' right now, or surf for it.  If not I'll just dig em' up later.

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 


From kwan at tourismwhistler.com  Wed Nov  5 14:43:09 2003
From: kwan at tourismwhistler.com (Ken Wan)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:43:09 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Re: new to css. need help with forms
In-Reply-To: <BLACKCOMB5YGmKIJ6ih00000054@mail.tourismwhistler.com>
Message-ID: <BBCEA0DD.65F1%kwan@tourismwhistler.com>

Thanks Paul.

After I left work yesterday (actually, late at night when my brain processes
stuff before bed), I realized what I was doing wrong. I have to remember the
box model! I was applying one style to both the <form> and the <input> tags
when I really needed to make two styles, one for each tag.

I now got it working the way I need.

Much appreciated.
Ken

On 11/5/03 3:40 AM, "thelist-request at lists.evolt.org"
<thelist-request at lists.evolt.org> wrote:

>> ...
>> 
>> When I try to create a class to apply to the form, it completely buggers it
>> up, clipping the field/button without repositioning the text. In addition,
>> the field and the button are not the same height.
>> 
>> Any suggestions/ideas?...
>> 
> you can acess the style properties of form components directly:
> eg:
> 
> input
>   {
>   height: 20px;
>   width: 100px;
>   border: solid 1px #000;
>   }
> 
> etc.
> 
> by giving id's / classes to your form components (selects, radois,
> inputs etc) you can style input type="text" differently from input
> type="submit" for example
> 
> Does that help?


From jcbullas at nildram.co.uk  Wed Nov  5 14:55:13 2003
From: jcbullas at nildram.co.uk (John C Bullas)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:55:13 +0000
Subject: [thelist] ot - downloaded file? SIZE/Date Search
In-Reply-To: <3FA9467E.9040209@meidomus.com>
References: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCCEPKMAAA.magic32@jps.net>
 <3FA9467E.9040209@meidomus.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20031105205251.02437f28@pop3.nildram.co.uk>

At 18:50 05/11/2003, Burhan Khalid wrote
>Roger Harness wrote:
>
>>Hello folks,
>>Sorry for the off-topic'ness of this, but does anybody know of any ideas on
>>trying to find a downloaded (?) file?
>>its a 129+ meg file (col3929.exe) that took me about 8 hours to d/l on a 56k
>>line.
>>I tried to get in using IE6, but it kept quitting the download. So finally I
>>tried using Mozilla 1.0 and that *seemed* to get it.
>>It just now stopped, and i cant seem to find anywhere! I've tried "Find"ing

If you know when you started the download plug that date/time in the
search options date menu options if you have them

If the file is 129MB thenn you can also search based on size in excess of 
100MB,
depending on what you use the machine for this might make it stick out?

FB



From paul at teltest.com  Wed Nov  5 15:00:41 2003
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 10:00:41 +1300
Subject: [thelist] I'm in a givin' mood
Message-ID: <3FA964F9.7080200@teltest.com>

<tip type="the universal law of presentations - part 1">
In any internet / software / hardware demonstration or presentation 
there will always be *one* unexpected and impossible-to-plan-for thing 
that goes wrong .
Work your guts out before the demo to ensure that the impact of the 
"universal law of presentation" is minimized
</tip>

<tip type="the universal law of presentations - part 2 (browsers)">
If you are presenting
(1) an application that uses a lot of javascript
on
(2) someone elses machine
at
(3) someone elses workplace
always make sure you
(4) turn off javascript error warnings
*before* the presentation _or_ thoroughly debug the application beforehand.

Not a good look - trust me on this one
</tip>

<tip type="Mozilla mail and multiple accounts">
(This may be standard in other mail clients but I don't know because I 
haven't used them)

Did you know you can drag / copy mail from one mail account to another?

Simply select the messages to copy / move and drag or copy them right 
into another accounts folders.
</tip>

-- 
 ------------------------------
	Paul Bennett						
	Internet Developer				
	Teltest Electronic Design		
 ------------------------------			
Email: paul at teltest.com				
Phone: 64 4 237 4557					
Web: http://www.teltest.com		
Wap: http://wap.teltest.com			



From cgeorge at basecorp.com  Wed Nov  5 15:02:45 2003
From: cgeorge at basecorp.com (Chris George)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:02:45 -0700
Subject: [thelist] Follow-up on my showModalDialog problems...
Message-ID: <6E85D194CD14D341AB3AF41DB59D1BAE0DE673@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com>

Hey all,

First off, thank you very much for all the help. Based on some of the
emails, I was able to come up with a pretty basic solution.
Functionally, it won't operate the way they want, but it's close enough
that the client should be happy with it.

First of all, I had to modify how the window was being called:

function openDetails()
{
	if(detailsURL.length>0)
	{
		var
sFeatures="dialogHeight:670px;dialogWidth:535px;scroll:no;unadorned:yes;
status:no;resizable:no;help:no;";
		var detWin = window.showModalDialog(detailsURL, "",
sFeatures);		
		eval(detWin);
	}
	else
	{
		alert("No details available");
	}
}

Basically the key line is instead of just calling
window.showModalDialog, it gets executed in the eval.

Then in the child window, I have the following:
function linkAndRun(link) {
	window.returnValue="parent.innerNav('"+link+"')";
	window.close();
}

Which is called from an onclick="linkAndRun('http://www.google.ca');"

The resulting functionality is that when user clicks the link, the
window disappears and the correct page/screen/navigation comes up.

Aaaaanyway. I guess it's pretty basic, but I'm rather proud of myself.
:p

Thanks again,

Chris.

From Jono at brookgroup.com  Wed Nov  5 15:10:03 2003
From: Jono at brookgroup.com (Jono Young)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:10:03 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online
In-Reply-To: <77025926DDD85A4D886C5B8A34E43E7420BE62@exchange.internal.municode.com>
Message-ID: <BBCED15B.7F15%Jono@brookgroup.com>

Thanks, you said it best...

On 11/5/03 2:26 PM, "Stephen Caudill" <SCaudill at municode.com> wrote:

> You're entitled to your opinion.

On 11/5/03 2:26 PM, "Stephen Caudill" <SCaudill at municode.com> wrote:

> Question was answered...
> 
> Also, not having time to Google, to me, just means you only have time
> for others to do your research for you.  poor form.

-- 
Jono Young
Designer/Illustrator



From ldelahunty at britstream.com  Wed Nov  5 15:58:17 2003
From: ldelahunty at britstream.com (Liam Delahunty)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:58:17 -0000
Subject: [thelist] host recommendation for ASP
In-Reply-To: <000001c3a37a$f7488b10$edaef63f@toddb>
Message-ID: <DPEEJKJMBMMJNBKDKFLHAEOAEEAA.ldelahunty@britstream.com>

Todd Ballard Sent: 05 November 2003 08:58
>I am a nix host reseller and I have a potential client that needs 2
>sites hosted but one requires ASP. Recommendations?

We have chillisoft running on one Cobalt RAQ quite nicely. (though I still
prefer if the client would move over to PHP...)

www.chilisoft.com/
System Requirements
Required:

Memory: 256 MB required; 512 MB or more recommended
Disk Space: 150 MB

Supported:
Solaris 9 and 8 Operating Systems (SPARCR Platform Edition)
Linux (x86) Kernel 2.4, GLIBC 2.2.5
Red Hat Linux 7.3
SuSE Linux 8.0
Microsoft Windows NT and 2000

Kind regards,
Liam Delahunty,
Mega Products Limited
http://www.britstream.com/


From evolt at muinar.com  Wed Nov  5 16:07:01 2003
From: evolt at muinar.com (muinar)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 23:07:01 +0100
Subject: [thelist] ot - downloaded file?
In-Reply-To: <NFBBIDGIFBJDACDGOJFCCEPKMAAA.magic32@jps.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20031105230425.00a4d5d0@mail.muinar.com>

At 17:27 05.11.03, you wrote:

>It just now stopped, and i cant seem to find anywhere! I've tried "Find"ing
>it using any version of "col3929.exe" but not having ANY luck.
>
>Does anybody know some crazy miracle that might help me
>find/retrieve/salvage this file??

Hi Roger

Did you already try to find it by date?

I. e. Explorer > whole system > find any files modified during today... ?

Mike


From graftedin at sbcglobal.net  Wed Nov  5 17:08:41 2003
From: graftedin at sbcglobal.net (Trisha Salas)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 17:08:41 -0600
Subject: [thelist] nested table cell help
In-Reply-To: <BBCED15B.7F15%Jono@brookgroup.com>
References: <77025926DDD85A4D886C5B8A34E43E7420BE62@exchange.internal.municode.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031105170756.00b22098@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com>

I have a page at 
<http://www.jubileedesign.com/okc/help_veronica.htm>http://www.jubileedesign.com/okc/help_veronica.htm

The top image is nested inside a table cell.  The width of the outside table
is 775 px.  The width of the nested table (the banner) is also 775 px and it
is centered within the cell.

The problem is the little slice of background showing to the right of the
banner image table.  I can't figure out why it is there since all the tables
are fixed widths.  There is a bkg image in the cell directly underneath the
banner image but it is only 4 px in width.

Any ideas as to why we can't get rid of that little sliver of purple?

Thanks,
Trisha Salas


From dave at dbmdata.com  Wed Nov  5 19:16:00 2003
From: dave at dbmdata.com (David Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:16:00 -0500
Subject: [thelist] I'm in a givin' mood
In-Reply-To: <3FA964F9.7080200@teltest.com>
References: <3FA964F9.7080200@teltest.com>
Message-ID: <3FA9A0D0.5070403@dbmdata.com>

So true Paul. We call it "The Law of Demos". Everything works perfectly 
every single time you run the app in every permutation, but as soon as 
you do the exact same thing in front of the boss or the client - it crashes.
The Law of Demos.

Paul Bennett wrote:

> <tip type="the universal law of presentations - part 1">
> In any internet / software / hardware demonstration or presentation 
> there will always be *one* unexpected and impossible-to-plan-for thing 
> that goes wrong .
> Work your guts out before the demo to ensure that the impact of the 
> "universal law of presentation" is minimized
> </tip>
>
> <tip type="the universal law of presentations - part 2 (browsers)">
> If you are presenting
> (1) an application that uses a lot of javascript
> on
> (2) someone elses machine
> at
> (3) someone elses workplace
> always make sure you
> (4) turn off javascript error warnings
> *before* the presentation _or_ thoroughly debug the application 
> beforehand.
>
> Not a good look - trust me on this one
> </tip>
>
> <tip type="Mozilla mail and multiple accounts">
> (This may be standard in other mail clients but I don't know because I 
> haven't used them)
>
> Did you know you can drag / copy mail from one mail account to another?
>
> Simply select the messages to copy / move and drag or copy them right 
> into another accounts folders.
> </tip>
>



From dianesoini at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  5 20:36:17 2003
From: dianesoini at earthlink.net (Diane Soini)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:36:17 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Re: hiding source
In-Reply-To: <200311041514.1ahani7fx3NZFl50@vulture>
Message-ID: <FFCC1D93-1001-11D8-B85F-00039358CB42@earthlink.net>

On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 03:14 PM, 
thelist-request at lists.evolt.org wrote:

> mainly the point that there isn't
> anything worth protecting in the HTML.

Not that I disagree, because I don't, but I was asked to hide the 
source not because of the HTML, but because they didn't want to give 
away the mathematical calculations the javascript was doing. (It was an 
ROI calculator.)

Really, you can't hide the source, you can only make it harder to get 
to.

Not sure if this is built-in, or if it was scripted, but one of the 
products at my company they disabled right-click, but if you hold the 
left-button and then right click it works and then you can view source.


From joshua at waetech.com  Wed Nov  5 21:10:25 2003
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:10:25 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Re: hiding source
References: <FFCC1D93-1001-11D8-B85F-00039358CB42@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <017d01c3a413$85f0cab0$0300a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Diane Soini" <dianesoini at earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 9:36 PM


> Not that I disagree, because I don't, but I was asked to hide the
> source not because of the HTML, but because they didn't want to give
> away the mathematical calculations the javascript was doing. (It was an
> ROI calculator.)

> Really, you can't hide the source, you can only make it harder to get
> to.

Diane,

This is all making sense.  Here's a couple thoughts that may help you in
this case.

First off, we all know that you cannot hide anything from anybody as soon as
you publish it.  That being said, if you want to hide the calculations, the
most effective method would be to move the calculation to the server.

The javascript interface provides a very quick interface and doesn't require
a page refresh.  While you cannot completely create the same experience
doing the calculations on the server, you can come close.

Using iframes, xml, and about a dozen other techniques, you could very
feasibly send the raw numbers to the server, let the server calculate
whatever it needs to, and then present the results on the web page without
requiring a refresh.  There would be a slight latency but there is no way
that someone could simply open up your code and steal the formula.

Examples:

http://developer.apple.com/internet/javascript/iframe.html
http://www.blueshoes.org/en/javascript/jsrs/

HTH,

<><><><><><><><><><>
Joshua Olson
Web Application Engineer
WAE Tech Inc.
http://www.waetech.com
706.210.0168


From jeff at jeffhowden.com  Wed Nov  5 23:02:13 2003
From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:02:13 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Follow-up on my showModalDialog problems...
In-Reply-To: <6E85D194CD14D341AB3AF41DB59D1BAE0DE673@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLCEMFLJAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>

chris,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Chris George
>
> First off, thank you very much for all the help. Based
> on some of the emails, I was able to come up with a
> pretty basic solution.  Functionally, it won't operate
> the way they want, but it's close enough that the
> client should be happy with it.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

how much different is it?  depending on what they want it to do, there might
be another way to do it.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> 		eval(detWin);
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

ewww.  (no offense)

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> Basically the key line is instead of just calling
> window.showModalDialog, it gets executed in the eval.
>
> Then in the child window, I have the following:
> function linkAndRun(link) {
> 	window.returnValue="parent.innerNav('"+link+"')";
> 	window.close();
> }
>
> Which is called from an onclick="linkAndRun('http://www.google.ca');"
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

instead of writing out a statement to get executed, you could have just set
the window.returnValue to the link string.  then, do something like:

if(detWin)
  parent.innerNav(detWin);

if you really need the alert(), put it in an else statement.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> The resulting functionality is that when user clicks the
> link, the window disappears and the correct
> page/screen/navigation comes up.
>
> Aaaaanyway. I guess it's pretty basic, but I'm rather
> proud of myself.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

you should be.  congrats.

.jeff

------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist
Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/
Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/


From meredith at pintsize.com  Fri Nov  7 02:07:27 2003
From: meredith at pintsize.com (Meredith Tupper)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 03:07:27 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Form recipient addresses in dropdown menu?
Message-ID: <3FAB52BF.1010505@pintsize.com>

Hi all,

I'm looking for a contact form that will allow a user to choose the 
recipient?  And can I conceal the recipient address list?

Thanks,
Meredith

-- 
PintSize Graphics & Web Hosting, Inc.
http://www.pintsize.com
3225 S. MacDill Ave. #208
Tampa, FL 33629
813-835-5382
meredith at pintsize.com

CONFIDENTIALITY WARNING
This electronic message contains information which may be privileged 
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(ECPA). All violators are subject to fines, imprisonment or civil 
damages, or both.


From jcbullas at nildram.co.uk  Thu Nov  6 01:57:16 2003
From: jcbullas at nildram.co.uk (John C Bullas)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 07:57:16 +0000
Subject: [thelist] Form recipient addresses in dropdown menu?
In-Reply-To: <3FAB52BF.1010505@pintsize.com>
References: <3FAB52BF.1010505@pintsize.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20031106075223.0245d498@pop3.nildram.co.uk>

At 08:07 07/11/2003, Meredith Tupper wrote
>Hi all,
>
>I'm looking for a contact form that will allow a user to choose the 
>recipient?  And can I conceal the recipient address list?

I use nothing complex to do this

the form is here:http://www.imm2004.org/contact.html

the value of the "recipient" field sets the recipient field in BFormmail 
when the form is submitted

all recipients need to be explicitly stated in the BFormmail configuration

Sadly the addresses are embedded NOT hidden......

FB


>Thanks,
>Meredith


From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Thu Nov  6 02:09:46 2003
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:09:46 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Form recipient addresses in dropdown menu?
In-Reply-To: <3FAB52BF.1010505@pintsize.com>
References: <3FAB52BF.1010505@pintsize.com>
Message-ID: <oprx7iaksic4uo5t@localhost>

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 03:07:27 -0500, Meredith Tupper 
<meredith at pintsize.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for a contact form that will allow a user to choose the 
> recipient?  And can I conceal the recipient address list?
>
> Thanks,
> Meredith


If you have PHP available spidermail will do exactly what you want:

http://jp.thomas.name/code/spidermail/

multiple dropdowns in the form for to address, but it uses aliases and a 
separate addressbook file to decide where to send the form results.

HTH

Tony



-- 
  listening to: silence ;o)

From andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk  Thu Nov  6 02:13:36 2003
From: andrew at humanbehaviour.co.uk (Andrew)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:13:36 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Form recipient addresses in dropdown menu?
In-Reply-To: <3FAB52BF.1010505@pintsize.com>
Message-ID: <NFBBJDAHDEEMAGMPBCPCEEEJHIAA.andrew@humanbehaviour.co.uk>

you'll need something to process serverside such as php or perl

Andrew

>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Meredith Tupper
>Sent: 07 November 2003 08:07
>To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
>Subject: [thelist] Form recipient addresses in dropdown menu?
>
>
>Hi all,
>
>I'm looking for a contact form that will allow a user to choose the 
>recipient?  And can I conceal the recipient address list?
>
>Thanks,
>Meredith
>

From jcbullas at nildram.co.uk  Thu Nov  6 02:15:53 2003
From: jcbullas at nildram.co.uk (John C Bullas)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:15:53 +0000
Subject: [thelist] Form recipient addresses in dropdown menu?
In-Reply-To: <oprx7iaksic4uo5t@localhost>
References: <3FAB52BF.1010505@pintsize.com>
 <oprx7iaksic4uo5t@localhost>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20031106081307.023b2d60@pop3.nildram.co.uk>


>
>If you have PHP available spidermail will do exactly what you want:
>
>http://jp.thomas.name/code/spidermail/

got a URL where  there is more info about how to use it? I am only using 
PHP for 404 logging and like what I have so might extend
this to form use ;)

FB


>multiple dropdowns in the form for to address, but it uses aliases and a 
>separate addressbook file to decide where to send the form results.
>
>HTH
>
>Tony


From shilpabhoj at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  6 02:22:17 2003
From: shilpabhoj at hotmail.com (Shilpa)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:22:17 +0400
Subject: [thelist] Outlook macro
Message-ID: <000601c3a43f$17365f00$4d010181@shilpa>

Hi,
I want to create a macro in Outlook that is triggered when ever a change
is made to the status of a task Item. Please Help !!!
Thanks
sb

From shilpabhoj at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  6 02:25:09 2003
From: shilpabhoj at hotmail.com (Shilpa)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:25:09 +0400
Subject: [thelist] Outlook macros
Message-ID: <000b01c3a43f$7d765db0$4d010181@shilpa>

Hi,
I want to create a macro in Outlook that is triggered when ever a change
is made to the status of a task Item. Please Help !!!
Thanks
sb


From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Thu Nov  6 02:26:35 2003
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:26:35 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Form recipient addresses in dropdown menu?
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20031106081307.023b2d60@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
References: <3FAB52BF.1010505@pintsize.com> <oprx7iaksic4uo5t@localhost>
	<6.0.0.22.0.20031106081307.023b2d60@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Message-ID: <oprx7i2laac4uo5t@localhost>

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:15:53 +0000, John C Bullas <jcbullas at nildram.co.uk> 
wrote:

>
>>
>> If you have PHP available spidermail will do exactly what you want:
>>
>> http://jp.thomas.name/code/spidermail/
>
> got a URL where  there is more info about how to use it? I am only using 
> PHP for 404 logging and like what I have so might extend
> this to form use ;)
>
> FB

The readme file in the download is very comprehensive.

(attached in an offlist reply)



-- 
  listening to: silence ;o)

From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk  Thu Nov  6 02:39:29 2003
From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:39:29 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Form recipient addresses in dropdown menu?
In-Reply-To: <oprx7i2laac4uo5t@localhost>
References: <3FAB52BF.1010505@pintsize.com> <oprx7iaksic4uo5t@localhost>
	<6.0.0.22.0.20031106081307.023b2d60@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
	<oprx7i2laac4uo5t@localhost>
Message-ID: <oprx7jn3a5c4uo5t@localhost>

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:26:35 -0000, Tony Crockford <tonyc at boldfish.co.uk> 
wrote:

> The readme file in the download is very comprehensive.
>
> (attached in an offlist reply)

I forgot!

I'm using it here:
http://www.torbytes.com/feedback.htm

;o)

-- 
  listening to: silence ;o)

From S.Denslow at chgl.com  Thu Nov  6 03:49:32 2003
From: S.Denslow at chgl.com (Stuart Denslow)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:49:32 -0000 
Subject: [thelist] nested table cell help
Message-ID: <39FE7B4A33ADD5119E0000508BDCCFF8B0342D@MAIL>

Not sure if this is causing it but you have a closing TR tag missing here
(around line 104)


<td> <img src="../images/spacer.gif" width="20" height="1" alt="" /></td>
<td> <img src="../images/spacer.gif" width="95" height="1" alt="" /></td>
<td> <img src="../images/spacer.gif" width="46" height="1" alt="" /></td>
</table>



-----Original Message-----
From: Trisha Salas [mailto:graftedin at sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: 05 November 2003 23:09
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] nested table cell help


I have a page at
<http://www.jubileedesign.com/okc/help_veronica.htm>http://www.jubileedesign
.com/okc/help_veronica.htm

The top image is nested inside a table cell.  The width of the outside table
is 775 px.  The width of the nested table (the banner) is also 775 px and it
is centered within the cell.

The problem is the little slice of background showing to the right of the
banner image table.  I can't figure out why it is there since all the tables
are fixed widths.  There is a bkg image in the cell directly underneath the
banner image but it is only 4 px in width.

Any ideas as to why we can't get rid of that little sliver of purple?

Thanks,
Trisha Salas

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and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
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From kris at midtempo.net  Thu Nov  6 04:07:15 2003
From: kris at midtempo.net (kris burford)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 10:07:15 +0000
Subject: [thelist] [css] ie5 for mac
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20031106095044.016d5ae0@mail.btinternet.com>

Hi all,

about to launch a new site and am having problems with the css - 
specifically with ie5 on the mac (typically!). My mac is currently in bits, 
so could really do with some guidance as to what/where things are going wrong.

It's been reported that the text on the index page falls outside the box, 
and the general page structure also has issues.

If anyone could give me a hand, t'would be lovely.

The site is at: http://www.artfolio.co.uk

tia

kris


From leslytollis at dimensions-corporatewear.co.uk  Thu Nov  6 04:15:39 2003
From: leslytollis at dimensions-corporatewear.co.uk (Les Lytollis)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:15:39 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Stylesheet based on URL
Message-ID: <01D68BC74179BF40A96146C6548AFB8AE0A4F0@casexc01.dimensions.co.uk>

Hi All,
 
I am trying to figure out a way to "skin" the same site for each client
that logs in. The app is B2B and each client company has their own
"personalised" url eg. 
 
http://company1.mydomain.co.uk
http://company2.mydomain.co.uk
 
The problem I am having is that each client needs to log in to the site,
but I would like the login page to appear skinned in the clients colours
as well, so I can't pick up the stylesheet based on login, which is how
I've always done it before. Is there a way to pick up the right one
based on url (or the host part url)?
 
The solution platform is IIS, ASP.NET
 
TIA 
LezL



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From ken at adOpenStatic.com  Thu Nov  6 04:29:27 2003
From: ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:29:27 +1100
Subject: [thelist] Stylesheet based on URL
References: <01D68BC74179BF40A96146C6548AFB8AE0A4F0@casexc01.dimensions.co.uk>
Message-ID: <00a301c3a450$e3229820$9700a8c0@careersAD.unsw.edu.au>

Request.ServerVariables("Server_Name") will give you the name of the host
requested (eg company1.mydomain.co.uk).

You could add runat="server" to the <head></head> tags, and then a new
literal control to the Controls collection with the necessary stylesheet
information.

Cheers
Ken

Microsoft MVP - Windows Server (IIS)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: "Les Lytollis" <leslytollis at dimensions-corporatewear.co.uk>
Subject: [thelist] Stylesheet based on URL



I am trying to figure out a way to "skin" the same site for each client
that logs in. The app is B2B and each client company has their own
"personalised" url eg.

http://company1.mydomain.co.uk
http://company2.mydomain.co.uk

The problem I am having is that each client needs to log in to the site,
but I would like the login page to appear skinned in the clients colours
as well, so I can't pick up the stylesheet based on login, which is how
I've always done it before. Is there a way to pick up the right one
based on url (or the host part url)?

The solution platform is IIS, ASP.NET


From j.dobson at find-a-part.com  Thu Nov  6 04:41:33 2003
From: j.dobson at find-a-part.com (John Dobson)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:41:33 -0000
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Stylesheet based on URL
Message-ID: <E1E67298B1350C4F91730C0C0AD9BF3A4BA137@cray.find-a-part.com>


> I am trying to figure out a way to "skin" the same site for each client
> that logs in. The app is B2B and each client company has their own
> "personalised" url eg.

I'm not sure that it is the best way of doing this but we have different styles dependant on different subdomains, it could look for any string in the URL

HTH

John

the script I'm using is ASP:

URLString = request.servervariables("HTTP_HOST")
if instr(1,URLString, "subdomain1",1)>0 then
	response.write("<LINK REL=""stylesheet"" TYPE=""text/css"" HREF=""subdomain1.css"">" & vbcrlf)
else
	response.write("<LINK REL=""stylesheet"" TYPE=""text/css"" HREF=""default.css"">" & vbcrlf)
End If



From leslytollis at dimensions-corporatewear.co.uk  Thu Nov  6 05:03:59 2003
From: leslytollis at dimensions-corporatewear.co.uk (Les Lytollis)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:03:59 -0000
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Stylesheet based on URL
Message-ID:     <01D68BC74179BF40A96146C6548AFB8A011CE381@casexc01.dimensions.co.uk>

Exactly what I was after - 

cheers guys!

LezL

> 
> the script I'm using is ASP:
> 
> URLString = request.servervariables("HTTP_HOST")
> if instr(1,URLString, "subdomain1",1)>0 then
> 	response.write("<LINK REL=""stylesheet"" 
> TYPE=""text/css"" HREF=""subdomain1.css"">" & vbcrlf) else
> 	response.write("<LINK REL=""stylesheet"" 
> TYPE=""text/css"" HREF=""default.css"">" & vbcrlf) End If
> 





********************Confidentiality Notice & Disclaimer ***********************
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From ken at adOpenStatic.com  Thu Nov  6 05:07:42 2003
From: ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 22:07:42 +1100
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Stylesheet based on URL
References: <01D68BC74179BF40A96146C6548AFB8A011CE381@casexc01.dimensions.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002901c3a456$32ff7110$9700a8c0@careersAD.unsw.edu.au>

If this is ASP.Net you don't want to do it this way...

Cheers
Ken

Microsoft MVP - Windows Server (IIS)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: "Les Lytollis" <leslytollis at dimensions-corporatewear.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [thelist] (OT) Stylesheet based on URL


Exactly what I was after - 

cheers guys!

LezL

> 
> the script I'm using is ASP:
> 
> URLString = request.servervariables("HTTP_HOST")
> if instr(1,URLString, "subdomain1",1)>0 then
> response.write("<LINK REL=""stylesheet"" 
> TYPE=""text/css"" HREF=""subdomain1.css"">" & vbcrlf) else
> response.write("<LINK REL=""stylesheet"" 
> TYPE=""text/css"" HREF=""default.css"">" & vbcrlf) End If
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From j.dobson at find-a-part.com  Thu Nov  6 05:05:58 2003
From: j.dobson at find-a-part.com (John Dobson)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:05:58 -0000
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Stylesheet based on URL
Message-ID: <E1E67298B1350C4F91730C0C0AD9BF3A4BA138@cray.find-a-part.com>

> If this is ASP.Net you don't want to do it this way...
> 
> Cheers
> Ken

How would it be better coded?

Me being green too...

John


From ben.morrison at dogstardesign.co.uk  Thu Nov  6 05:26:18 2003
From: ben.morrison at dogstardesign.co.uk (Ben Morrison)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:26:18 +0000
Subject: [thelist] [css] ie5 for mac
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20031106095044.016d5ae0@mail.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <BBCFE05A.B644%ben.morrison@dogstardesign.co.uk>

On 6/11/03 10:07 am, "kris burford" <kris at midtempo.net> wrote:

> It's been reported that the text on the index page falls outside the box,
> and the general page structure also has issues.

Yes it does come out all odd on ie5 mac.

A quick test and it seems that removing position:relative brings the text
back inside the box.

ben



From kris at midtempo.net  Thu Nov  6 05:32:50 2003
From: kris at midtempo.net (kris burford)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:32:50 +0000
Subject: [thelist] [css] ie5 for mac
In-Reply-To: <BBCFE05A.B644%ben.morrison@dogstardesign.co.uk>
References: <4.2.0.58.20031106095044.016d5ae0@mail.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20031106113038.016be760@mail.btinternet.com>


> > It's been reported that the text on the index page falls outside the box,
> > and the general page structure also has issues.
>
>Yes it does come out all odd on ie5 mac.
>
>A quick test and it seems that removing position:relative brings the text
>back inside the box.

darn. removing position:relative screws up opera and ie5.5 on win 2k.

(i'm assuming we're talking from the #text div)

thanks for looking.

k


From ken at adOpenStatic.com  Thu Nov  6 05:44:13 2003
From: ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 22:44:13 +1100
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Stylesheet based on URL
References: <E1E67298B1350C4F91730C0C0AD9BF3A4BA138@cray.find-a-part.com>
Message-ID: <00c801c3a45b$4cdd3310$9700a8c0@careersAD.unsw.edu.au>

There lots of ways - you could create your own class that inherits from
Page, and exposes a property that you set (for example), but assuming you're
just writing an .aspx page. One of the benefits of ASP.Net is that you don't
need the ugly inline spaghetti mess that characterised ASP (and a lot of
other interpreted languages of the same vintage).

A simple example would be below. Notice how the bit between <html></html>
contains no ASP.Net code? That makes it easier to sort out presentation
issues in the HTML editor of your choice (you can just cut-n-paste it for a
real quick-n-nasty approach to generating the HTML)

<script runat="server">
    Sub Page_Load(sender as object, e as eventargs)

        SetStyles()

    End Sub

    Sub SetStyles()

        Dim strServerName as String
        Dim strStyleSheetName as String
        strServerName =
Request.ServerVariables("Server_Name").toString.ToLower()

        Select Case strServerName
            Case "company1.mydomain.co.uk"
                strStyleSheetName = "company1"
            Case "company2.mydomain.co.uk"
                strStyleSheetName = "company2"
            Case Else
                strStyleSheetName = "default"
        End Select

        theHead.Controls.Add(New LiteralControl("<link rel=""stylesheet""
type=""text/css"" href="/inc/CSS/" & strStyleSheetName & ">")

    End Sub
</script>

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">

    <head runat="server" id="theHead">
        <title>Some Sample Page</title>
    </head>

    <body>
    </body>
</html>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Dobson" <j.dobson at find-a-part.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 10:05 PM
Subject: RE: [thelist] (OT) Stylesheet based on URL


> If this is ASP.Net you don't want to do it this way...
>
> Cheers
> Ken

How would it be better coded?

Me being green too...

John



From ben.morrison at dogstardesign.co.uk  Thu Nov  6 05:46:47 2003
From: ben.morrison at dogstardesign.co.uk (Ben Morrison)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:46:47 +0000
Subject: [thelist] [css] ie5 for mac
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20031106113038.016be760@mail.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <BBCFE527.B648%ben.morrison@dogstardesign.co.uk>

On 6/11/03 11:32 am, "kris burford" <kris at midtempo.net> wrote:

>> A quick test and it seems that removing position:relative brings the text
>> back inside the box.
>
> darn. removing position:relative screws up opera and ie5.5 on win 2k.
>
> (i'm assuming we're talking from the #text div)
>
> thanks for looking.

Its a known (inheritance) bug:

http://climbtothestars.org/coding/ie5macbug/

Ben



From leslytollis at dimensions-corporatewear.co.uk  Thu Nov  6 05:37:21 2003
From: leslytollis at dimensions-corporatewear.co.uk (Les Lytollis)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:37:21 -0000
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Stylesheet based on URL
Message-ID: <01D68BC74179BF40A96146C6548AFB8AE0A4F1@casexc01.dimensions.co.uk>

Ken Wrote:
>Request.ServerVariables("Server_Name") will give you the name of the
host requested (eg company1.mydomain.co.uk).
> 

Then John wrote:
>> URLString = request.servervariables("HTTP_HOST")
> > if instr(1,URLString, "subdomain1",1)>0 then response.write("<LINK 
> > REL=""stylesheet"" TYPE=""text/css"" HREF=""subdomain1.css"">" & > > vbcrlf) else response.write("<LINK REL=""stylesheet""
> > TYPE=""text/css"" HREF=""default.css"">" & vbcrlf) End If
> 

Then Ken wrote:
> If this is ASP.Net you don't want to do it this way...
> 

Can you enlighten us please Ken?



********************Confidentiality Notice & Disclaimer ***********************
This message, together with any attachments, is for the confidential and exclusive use of the addressee(s).
If you receive it in error, please delete the message and its attachments from your system immediately and notify us by return e-mail.
Do not disclose, copy, circulate or use any information contained in this e-mail.

(1) Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.
(2) The sender shall remain solely accountable for any statements, representations or opinions that are clearly his or her own and not made in the course of employment.
***********************************************************************************


From ken at adOpenStatic.com  Thu Nov  6 06:10:06 2003
From: ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 23:10:06 +1100
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Stylesheet based on URL
References: <E1E67298B1350C4F91730C0C0AD9BF3A4BA138@cray.find-a-part.com>
	<00c801c3a45b$4cdd3310$9700a8c0@careersAD.unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <011e01c3a45e$eb505f60$9700a8c0@careersAD.unsw.edu.au>

Missing a few quote marks in there!

theHead.Controls.Add(New LiteralControl("<link rel=""stylesheet""
type=""text/css"" href=""/inc/CSS/" & strStyleSheetName & """>")

but you get the idea...

Cheers
Ken

Microsoft MVP - Windows Server (IIS)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: "Ken Schaefer" <ken at adOpenStatic.com>
Subject: Re: [thelist] (OT) Stylesheet based on URL


: There lots of ways - you could create your own class that inherits from
: Page, and exposes a property that you set (for example), but assuming
you're
: just writing an .aspx page. One of the benefits of ASP.Net is that you
don't
: need the ugly inline spaghetti mess that characterised ASP (and a lot of
: other interpreted languages of the same vintage).

<snip>


From sed at sed.is  Thu Nov  6 06:22:34 2003
From: sed at sed.is (SED)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:22:34 -0000
Subject: [thelist] confirm 144f8769b4601759cf3fc0971f58a176b70acdf4
Message-ID: <iss.433ab781.193.3faa3d16.98f80.4b@quasar.skima.is>

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of
thelist-request at lists.evolt.org
Sent: 6. n?vember 2003 12:01
To: sed at sed.is
Subject: confirm 144f8769b4601759cf3fc0971f58a176b70acdf4

Mailing list subscription confirmation notice for mailing list thelist

We have received a request from 212.30.203.21 for subscription of your email
address, "sed at sed.is", to the thelist at lists.evolt.org mailing list.  To
confirm that you want to be added to this mailing list, simply reply to this
message, keeping the Subject: header intact.  Or visit this web page:

 
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Or include the following line -- and only the following line -- in a message
to thelist-request at lists.evolt.org:

    confirm 144f8769b4601759cf3fc0971f58a176b70acdf4

Note that simply sending a `reply' to this message should work from most
mail readers, since that usually leaves the Subject: line in the right form
(additional "Re:" text in the Subject: is okay).

If you do not wish to be subscribed from this list, please simply disregard
this message.  If you think you are being maliciously subscribed to the
list, or have any other questions, send them to
thelist-owner at lists.evolt.org.


From sbraun at rugged.com  Thu Nov  6 07:07:41 2003
From: sbraun at rugged.com (Sylvia Braunstein)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:07:41 +0200
Subject: [thelist] Web hosting advice
Message-ID: <BIEFLLOOBDDGPPEFINHJCEJIDKAA.sbraun@rugged.com>

I am looking for a web host and domain name, starting from scratch.
Can anyone give me advice as to the dos and don't or refer me to some
interesting/relevant articles.

Who should I choose and why?

Thanks,

Sylvia
_________________________________________
Sylvia Braunstein
Technical Writer
Aitech Systems, Ltd.

Tel :    +972-9-9600639

Fax :   +972-9-9544315

Mobile : 972-56-399078
Email : sbraun at rugged.com
__________________________________________



From leslytollis at dimensions-corporatewear.co.uk  Thu Nov  6 07:09:31 2003
From: leslytollis at dimensions-corporatewear.co.uk (Les Lytollis)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:09:31 -0000
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Stylesheet based on URL
Message-ID:     <01D68BC74179BF40A96146C6548AFB8A011CE383@casexc01.dimensions.co.uk>

> 
> Missing a few quote marks in there!
> 
> theHead.Controls.Add(New LiteralControl("<link 
> rel=""stylesheet"" type=""text/css"" href=""/inc/CSS/" & 
> strStyleSheetName & """>")
> 
> but you get the idea...
> 

Yeah, nice solution - thanks Ken - I obviously need to look at the .NET
stuff a bit more...

Regards
LezL



********************Confidentiality Notice & Disclaimer ***********************
This message, together with any attachments, is for the confidential and exclusive use of the addressee(s).
If you receive it in error, please delete the message and its attachments from your system immediately and notify us by return e-mail.
Do not disclose, copy, circulate or use any information contained in this e-mail.

(1) Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.
(2) The sender shall remain solely accountable for any statements, representations or opinions that are clearly his or her own and not made in the course of employment.
***********************************************************************************


From thelist at meidomus.com  Thu Nov  6 07:28:15 2003
From: thelist at meidomus.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 16:28:15 +0300
Subject: [thelist] Web hosting advice
In-Reply-To: <BIEFLLOOBDDGPPEFINHJCEJIDKAA.sbraun@rugged.com>
References: <BIEFLLOOBDDGPPEFINHJCEJIDKAA.sbraun@rugged.com>
Message-ID: <3FAA4C6F.6000206@meidomus.com>

Sylvia Braunstein wrote:
> I am looking for a web host and domain name, starting from scratch.
> Can anyone give me advice as to the dos and don't or refer me to some
> interesting/relevant articles.
> 
> Who should I choose and why?

My general advice is that don't get hosting from a domain provider.  I 
have heard nothing but bad news from people that do so.  There are 
*alot* of hosting companies out there, so you should solidify your 
requirements before you go shopping.

As for domains, my only experience is with godaddy.com, and I have yet 
to find something bad about their setup -- quite simply, it works :) 
Prices are reasonable ($9/year for my .com), and their interface is well 
thought out. I never have to hunt for an option.

Narrow your choices down to the top 5 and then go search for them at 
places like www.webhostingtalk.com ( a good place to search for opinions 
on hosts ). You can try posting a request at their requests forum, but 
90% of the responses are usually from people just starting out and just 
need to pay their server bills.

Along the same lines, if an offer seems to good to be true, it usually 
is. You can find ultra-cheap hosting, but you'll pay in the end for lack 
of support, server downtime, less-than-stellar bandwidth.

Specific recommendations? I can't say anything bad about my current host 
(www.spenix.com) they have had next to no downtime ( a freak fire 
brought down their dc a while back, but they managed to restore 
everything before I noticed ).  Since I signed up with them, they have 
changed their plans a bit, but still have kept me at my original plan. 
They are constantly adding/updating their servers (recently I got Urchin 
stats for free), and the person that runs the business is quite 
knowledgable. I have honestly never needed their support service, but 
when I have had that odd email -- it was responded to very promptly.

Doing your homework and nailing down your requirements is the first step 
before you even start browsing, because you will get overwhelmed by the 
number of responses. I was fortunate enough to find a good host from the 
start, and have stuck with them.

Good luck :)

Btw, what font did you use to compose your message?
-- 
Burhan Khalid
thelist[at]meidomus[dot]com
http://www.meidomus.com


From martin at easyweb.co.uk  Thu Nov  6 07:34:25 2003
From: martin at easyweb.co.uk (Martin Burns)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:34:25 +0000
Subject: [thelist] evolt.org Steering Elections
Message-ID: <F036A33D-105D-11D8-A573-000A959F6A30@easyweb.co.uk>

Dear All

The members of evolt's Steering Group are delighted to announce that 
their positions are all available for election.

Steering is made up of 2 representatives from each of evolt.org's 
working groups:
* Content: http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/content
* Design/Development: http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/desdev
* Sysadmin: http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/sysadmin
* Marketing: http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
* Finance: http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/finance

WHAT DOES STEERING DO?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Steering's job is to take decisions on day-to-day matters that cross 
multiple groups (for example choosing a hosting provider would concern 
desdev, sysadmin and finance).

Steering is (in theory) different from theforum in that theforum's role 
is setting policy, priorities and direction, not executing it. In the 
above example, this would mean defining whether being on an OSS 
platform is important, and what other things are less important than 
hosting and could be dropped if necessary.

(Admittedly, it hasn't always worked out like this over the past year 
and a bit - a fair number of executive decisions have been brought to 
theforum which may not have needed to. It will be up to the new 
Steering members to change this, or not.)

WHAT THE JOB ENTAILS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Steering members don't need to be 'the' key person in their group, but 
they do need to accurately represent their group to other groups' reps. 
Being good at seeing other peoples' points of view and reaching 
agreements that other people can live with is a useful skill.

WHAT THE COMMITMENT MEANS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Steering membership is for one year only, but members should make best 
efforts to be committed for that time. RealLife(tm) can always 
intervene, but if you're going to stand, you'll probably not have any 
major life upheavals actually *planned* for the year.

It doesn't take that much time - much, much less than membership of the 
working groups (particularly content and desdev) so you could do the 
job while being busy - but it would be difficult to be effective if you 
know you're going to be uncontactable for long periods.

HOW TO STAND
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Each working group elects its own reps. Therefore, you'll need to be a 
member of a working group to stand to represent it. How each group 
wants to pick its members is entirely up to it, provided it's free and 
fair, and there's a mailing list archive that records the fact.

You should also be a member of theforum:
http://lists.evolt.org/mailman/listinfo/theforum

TIMESCALES
~~~~~~~~~~~
The new Steering will take over on 1st December - in time for the 
evolt.org anniversary on the 14th. All groups need to have selected 
their reps not later than 23rd November.

The current Steering members have been in post for over 12 months 
(nostrum culpamus), but this shouldn't happen in future, so the next 
elections will be in November 2004 (/me marks iCal).

Any questions? Talk about it on theforum.

Cheers
Martin
--
Now playing on iTunes: "Fairytale Of New York" by Christy Moore from 
'At The Point Live' 


From joshua at waetech.com  Thu Nov  6 07:41:25 2003
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:41:25 -0500
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Stylesheet based on URL
References: <01D68BC74179BF40A96146C6548AFB8A011CE383@casexc01.dimensions.co.uk>
Message-ID: <01f801c3a46b$ac66a590$0300a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Les Lytollis" <leslytollis at dimensions-corporatewear.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 8:09 AM


> Yeah, nice solution - thanks Ken - I obviously need to look at the .NET
> stuff a bit more...

Les,

As with many other languages there is usually more than one way to
accomplish the same result.  While Ken's solution is correct, I'd also like
to bring to the table an alternative:

Add a LINK to the HEAD and then add the runat to the LINK.  In this way the
LINK tag itself acts as the placeholder for the stylesheet.

Here's why...

If a new developer was to come look at the page source it would not be
obvious to them how the link tag was generated if the tag was dynamically
inserted using the method offered by Ken.  By actually placing the LINK tag
into the HEAD tag to serve as a placeholder you give the person a starting
point (the id of the tag) if they need to debug.

One gotcha is "what if they don't want a style sheet for a particular page?"
I'd speculate that instances where the style sheet will not be defined will
be the exception, not the rule.  In those cases you could set the tag's
visibility to false and the tag would disappear from the rendered page.

Here's an example based on Ken's code:

<script runat="server">
    Sub Page_Load(sender as object, e as eventargs)

        SetStyles()

    End Sub

    Sub SetStyles()

        Dim strServerName as String
        Dim strStyleSheetName as String
        strServerName =
Request.ServerVariables("Server_Name").toString.ToLower()

        Select Case strServerName
            Case "company1.mydomain.co.uk"
                strStyleSheetName = "company1.css"
            Case "company2.mydomain.co.uk"
                strStyleSheetName = "company2.css"
            Case "company3.mydomain.co.uk"
                linkStylesheet.Visible = False
            Case Else
                strStyleSheetName = "default.css"
        End Select

        linkStylesheet.Attributes("href") = "/inc/CSS/" & strStyleSheetName

    End Sub
</script>

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">

    <head runat="server" id="theHead">
        <title>Some Sample Page</title>
        <link id="linkStylesheet" runat="server" rel="stylesheet"
type="text/css"></link>
    </head>

    <body>
    </body>
</html>

<><><><><><><><><><>
Joshua Olson
Web Application Engineer
WAE Tech Inc.
http://www.waetech.com
706.210.0168


From jasonh at corestar.co.uk  Thu Nov  6 07:43:07 2003
From: jasonh at corestar.co.uk (Jason Handby)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:43:07 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Stylesheet based on URL
In-Reply-To: <00a301c3a450$e3229820$9700a8c0@careersAD.unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <DIEPJJHJLEDGNOPBGMCAGELCCOAA.jasonh@corestar.co.uk>

> You could add runat="server" to the <head></head> tags, and then a new
> literal control to the Controls collection with the necessary stylesheet
> information.

Aaaaaagh! Ken, I wish you'd been around when I was trying to solve a similar
problem a few weeks ago :-)  I was trying to work out how to dynamically add
a "<style> ... </style>" tag to the head of my document; I had no idea you
could just add "runat=server" to the <head> tag and then add controls
dynamically. Marvellous!



Jason


From sbraun at rugged.com  Thu Nov  6 07:55:01 2003
From: sbraun at rugged.com (Sylvia Braunstein)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:55:01 +0200
Subject: [thelist] Web hosting advice
In-Reply-To: <3FAA4C6F.6000206@meidomus.com>
Message-ID: <BIEFLLOOBDDGPPEFINHJIEJKDKAA.sbraun@rugged.com>


Thanks for the feedback.
I used Arial 10 (2) to compose my message (you can see it in the source html
of the mail). Why? Did it come out funny?

Sylvia

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Burhan Khalid
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 3:28 PM
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: Re: [thelist] Web hosting advice


Sylvia Braunstein wrote:
> I am looking for a web host and domain name, starting from scratch.
> Can anyone give me advice as to the dos and don't or refer me to some
> interesting/relevant articles.
>
> Who should I choose and why?

My general advice is that don't get hosting from a domain provider.  I
have heard nothing but bad news from people that do so.  There are
*alot* of hosting companies out there, so you should solidify your
requirements before you go shopping.

As for domains, my only experience is with godaddy.com, and I have yet
to find something bad about their setup -- quite simply, it works :)
Prices are reasonable ($9/year for my .com), and their interface is well
thought out. I never have to hunt for an option.

Narrow your choices down to the top 5 and then go search for them at
places like www.webhostingtalk.com ( a good place to search for opinions
on hosts ). You can try posting a request at their requests forum, but
90% of the responses are usually from people just starting out and just
need to pay their server bills.

Along the same lines, if an offer seems to good to be true, it usually
is. You can find ultra-cheap hosting, but you'll pay in the end for lack
of support, server downtime, less-than-stellar bandwidth.

Specific recommendations? I can't say anything bad about my current host
(www.spenix.com) they have had next to no downtime ( a freak fire
brought down their dc a while back, but they managed to restore
everything before I noticed ).  Since I signed up with them, they have
changed their plans a bit, but still have kept me at my original plan.
They are constantly adding/updating their servers (recently I got Urchin
stats for free), and the person that runs the business is quite
knowledgable. I have honestly never needed their support service, but
when I have had that odd email -- it was responded to very promptly.

Doing your homework and nailing down your requirements is the first step
before you even start browsing, because you will get overwhelmed by the
number of responses. I was fortunate enough to find a good host from the
start, and have stuck with them.

Good luck :)

Btw, what font did you use to compose your message?
--
Burhan Khalid
thelist[at]meidomus[dot]com
http://www.meidomus.com

--
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
Workers of the Web, evolt !


From jsWalter at torres.ws  Thu Nov  6 08:28:16 2003
From: jsWalter at torres.ws (jsWalter)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:28:16 -0600
Subject: [thelist] a plea for assistance...
Message-ID: <NHBBJMGBIKDCKHJPABFJGEAGGEAA.jsWalter@torres.ws>

I need to request some assistance on getting a script running on Konqueror.

It works on Mozillia, Firbird, Netscape 6/7, IE 5/6, Opera 7 on Windows 2k
and NT.

I don't know about the rest.

I do know that it does not work at all on Konqueror.

I've brought this up here before, it's my Text/TextArea status bar
script/css.

The latest can be seen at...

      http://web.torres.ws/statusbar/bar3.html

The bars and number show up and move as desired on the browsers I mentioned
above.

Nothing is visible in Konqueror.

If anyone has any experience working with JavaScript and CSS in Konqueror,
please take a look at this.

Thanks for your help.

BTW: Once I've cleaned up the code, improved the comments, etc, I will make
it available to anyone who wishes a copy.

Walter



From Jono at brookgroup.com  Thu Nov  6 08:56:13 2003
From: Jono at brookgroup.com (Jono Young)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 09:56:13 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Web hosting advice
In-Reply-To: <BIEFLLOOBDDGPPEFINHJIEJKDKAA.sbraun@rugged.com>
Message-ID: <BBCFCB3D.7F91%Jono@brookgroup.com>

Here's my process:
1.  Go to http://www.whois.com/ to look up your desired URL to see if it is
available.
2.  You can register your domain name at http://www.directnic.com/ so that
Squaters can't nab it before you do.  Squaters will go out and buy all the
domain names they can in hopes of selling it to somebody like you and me
later on.
3.  For a host, I like http://www.hostmysite.com/  The company I work for is
switching to them b/c of good news we have heard from other companies.  We
also recommend them to our clients.

I'm sure everyone is going to have a good story to tell, and good
suggestions, so good luck.

On 11/6/03 8:55 AM, "Sylvia Braunstein" <sbraun at rugged.com> wrote:
> 
> Sylvia Braunstein wrote:
>> I am looking for a web host and domain name, starting from scratch.
>> Can anyone give me advice as to the dos and don't or refer me to some
>> interesting/relevant articles.
>> 
>> Who should I choose and why?
> 

-- 
Jono Young
Designer/Illustrator



From Jono at brookgroup.com  Thu Nov  6 09:12:58 2003
From: Jono at brookgroup.com (Jono Young)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 10:12:58 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Protecting Portfolio Images Online
In-Reply-To: <3FA96094.106@teltest.com>
Message-ID: <BBCFCF2A.7F94%Jono@brookgroup.com>

Paul,

Thanks for the link, that is one of the most useful tips I have seen here
yet!  By changing the word "term" in the URL, to another word, I can find
eVolt's archived threads on Google about the subject of my choice.

For Instance I changed your provided URL:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&safe=active&q=%27+term+
%27+site%3Alists.evolt.org&btnG=Google+Search

To this URL:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&safe=active&q=%27+webho
sting+%27+site%3Alists.evolt.org&btnG=Google+Search

And found TONS of info about webhosting from past eVolt threads...AWESOME!

Thanks
-- 
Jono Young
Designer/Illustrator

On 11/5/03 3:41 PM, "Paul Bennett" <paul at teltest.com> wrote:

> FYI
> you can set this as a bookmark for theList archives search (via google):
> (watch wrap)
> javascript:term=prompt('Search%20thelist%20Archives:');if(term!=null){location
> ='http://www.google.com/search?as_q='+term+'&as_sitesearch=lists.evolt.org&saf
> e=on&submit=Go';}




From Jono at brookgroup.com  Thu Nov  6 09:19:38 2003
From: Jono at brookgroup.com (Jono Young)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 10:19:38 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Web hosting advice
In-Reply-To: <BIEFLLOOBDDGPPEFINHJIEJKDKAA.sbraun@rugged.com>
Message-ID: <BBCFD0BA.7F9A%Jono@brookgroup.com>

Sylvia,

Check out this link (courtesy of Paul):
<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&safe=active&q=%27+webh
osting+%27+site%3Alists.evolt.org&btnG=Google+Search>

This links to archived eVolt discussions on web hosting at Google.

> Sylvia Braunstein wrote:
>> I am looking for a web host and domain name, starting from scratch.
>> Can anyone give me advice as to the dos and don't or refer me to some
>> interesting/relevant articles.
>> 
>> Who should I choose and why?

-- 
Jono Young
Designer/Illustrator



From john at videoisland.com  Thu Nov  6 09:21:40 2003
From: john at videoisland.com (John Handelaar)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:21:40 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Web hosting advice
In-Reply-To: <BIEFLLOOBDDGPPEFINHJIEJKDKAA.sbraun@rugged.com>
Message-ID: <FOEHIGAIODCIIPCIEOAPCEBJCBAA.john@videoisland.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Sylvia Braunstein
> Sent: 06 November 2003 13:55
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: RE: [thelist] Web hosting advice
> 
> Thanks for the feedback.
> I used Arial 10 (2) to compose my message (you can see it in the 
> source html
> of the mail). 

Actually we strip out all non-text parts of MIME
messages on their way in, so no we can't :-)

Plain text is robo-enforced at lists.evolt.org,
not least because anything else would wreck the
archive.

------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7446 7554       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 20 7446 7555  E john at videoisland.com
------------------------------------------
Work:   http://videoisland.com/?u=88-3&l=1
Home:                 http://handelaar.org
------------------------------------------

From sam at sam-i-am.com  Thu Nov  6 09:27:30 2003
From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam-I-Am)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 09:27:30 -0600
Subject: [thelist] OT: HTML Emails
In-Reply-To: <ECEOJNOEBBFGGFHOGEOMIELJMMAA.sabaffy@mswebdevelopment.com>
References: <ECEOJNOEBBFGGFHOGEOMIELJMMAA.sabaffy@mswebdevelopment.com>
Message-ID: <3FAA6862.6080801@sam-i-am.com>

Steve Abaffy wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> 	We have just been asked by a client to produce an html email. And since we
> have never done anything like this before we were wondering what the going
> rate was for something like that. Any insight from any of you that have done
> or are doing html emails would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
You need to set up a different test environment - supply yourself with 
all the common email clients, and accounts on the bigger webmail 
clients. Dont skip the Mac clients - they can yield nasty surpises. And 
you need a way to dispatch your html mail to all these. This took me a 
couple of days the first time around - you might want your client to 
take on some of this cost.
Other than that, you need follow some basic rules of thumb (or best 
practices if you feel that way about html mail :)
. send with a text/html header.
. dont let outlook do it for you - check the code even if you don't 
write it yourself
. nothing outside the <body> tags that you care about
. all paths (imgs etc.) full and absolute.
. judicious use of inline css
. font tags where necessary
. narrow page width (I think I used 516px as a compromised low-ish 
common denominator)
. Some no-html friendly text in a comment at or near the top of the page.

Once you factor this in, charge as you would for a regular (one-off) web 
page. If you expect repeat work using the same template, you might price 
accordingly.
And take everything you read and hear with a pinch of salt (as always). 
Your client will insist they only care about Outlook users. Everyone 
else will insist abandon the idea entirely.

BTW html email is not OT for this list, though the flame wars it prompts 
  probably should be.

Sam


From cgeorge at basecorp.com  Thu Nov  6 09:32:46 2003
From: cgeorge at basecorp.com (Chris George)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:32:46 -0700
Subject: [thelist] Follow-up on my showModalDialog problems...
Message-ID: <6E85D194CD14D341AB3AF41DB59D1BAE0DE674@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Howden [mailto:jeff at jeffhowden.com] 
> 
> how much different is it?  depending on what they want it to 
> do, there might be another way to do it.

Well, it's a fullscreen learning module - the reason they went with the
showModalDialog is that it will always be "on top" (it's an IE-only app,
so the learning module is IE-only) - no problems with focus, etc on a
typical pop-up style window.

I think they had expected you to be able to navigate from the
modalDialog without closing it, kind of like a built-in help window.
IMHO (which isn't worth much when I'm not the one paying for the
project), the functionality is better this way...

> 
> ewww.  (no offense)

Oh? Why? From the documents I read about the eval command, I didn't
think I was misusing it...

> instead of writing out a statement to get executed, you could 
> have just set the window.returnValue to the link string.  
> then, do something like:
> 
> if(detWin)
>   parent.innerNav(detWin);
> 
> if you really need the alert(), put it in an else statement.

I like that! I'll give it a shot. Thanks!

From r.mulder at mta.nl  Thu Nov  6 02:29:51 2003
From: r.mulder at mta.nl (Roel Mulder)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 09:29:51 +0100
Subject: [thelist] History of domain registration
In-Reply-To: <200311041630.hA4GUMV4008860@svs23.virtualis.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20031104121032.00a73f30@mta.nl>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031106090657.00a92398@212.204.230.40>

Hi all,
Thanks for the replies, and Norman for your lengthy one. It's not a subject 
we come across on daily basis. Also on other lists no straightforward 
solution has been found. The WayBack Machine indicates that no website was 
life on the domain and since we didn't receive any mail we may safely 
deduct that the doman wasn't operational prior our registration.

You may remember the trouble the guy had with sex.com being unauthorised 
transfered to another company. So, someone somewhere somehow does keep 
track of matters in such a way that it is valid in court. I suppose that if 
the shit really hits the fan we'll find out about where it all recides.

Roel Mulder

At 08:29 04-11-2003 -0800, you wrote:
>Roel -
>
>Be very careful with this one...
>
>When a domain name expires, there's a long grace period between the time of
>expiration and the time that the domain is actually released to the public
>for new registration.  Typically, a domain registrar will start notifying
>the domain registrant that the domain is up for renewal two or three months
>before the expiration date.  If the registrant doesn't pay their annual fee
>prior to the domain's expiration date, the registrar will inactivate the
>domain, usually two days to as much as a month after the expiration date.
>Then follows a six-eight week grace period where the domain is in suspended
>status, but can be reactivated by the registrant simply paying their annual
>fee.
>
>So the "old" registrant, if they ever registered the domain, had somewhere
>between at least two to five months to pay their annual fee.
>
>You could contact ICANN at their site to see if they will provide you with
>the registration history for the domain, but I don't know if they will
>provide that information to you unless you are placed in arbitration in
>regard to the name.
>
>If your domain name does enter the dispute process, you will need to prove
>that the name is connected to some form of business that you are doing, that
>you are not infringing on a registered trade or service mark owned by the
>business wanting to claim the name from you, and that you are not using the
>domain in a manner that damages the other company's name.
>
>Another thing you can do is contact the company that claims to have
>registered the name in the past and require them to provide you with a
>photocopy of the last domain name registration invoice and the registrar's
>confirmation that they paid for their registration.  If they do provide
>these documents to you, then contact the registrar to request confirmation
>that the documents are verifiable, and that the other company did, indeed,
>have the name registered at one time.
>
>         Norman
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
>[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Roel Mulder
>Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 3:22 AM
>To: The List
>Subject: [thelist] History of domain registration
>
>Hi all,
>In januari 2003 we registered a .com domain. Yesterday we received an e-mail
>of someone claiming they registered it prior to ourselves and wanting to
>open up negotiations towards reclaiming it.
>
>  > Unfortunately due to techincial problems between the original registrar
>(corp1)
>  > and corp2 Ltd we were unable to reregister the domain when it was due for
> > renewal and it now seems that you have registered the domain.
>
>Tough for them.
>Question : Is there a place where I can check their claim of the domainname
>being registered to them prior our registration?
>
>The domain has since januari been directed to one of our websites, it
>doesn't generate tarffic worth mentioning, we haven't received any mail
>(spam included) so _if_ they ever had it registered they haven't used it.
>Google's cash won't help.
>
>Anyone?
>
>Thanks,
>Roel Mulder


From and-evolt at doxdesk.com  Thu Nov  6 09:34:54 2003
From: and-evolt at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:34:54 +0000
Subject: [thelist] a plea for assistance...
In-Reply-To: <NHBBJMGBIKDCKHJPABFJGEAGGEAA.jsWalter@torres.ws>
References: <NHBBJMGBIKDCKHJPABFJGEAGGEAA.jsWalter@torres.ws>
Message-ID: <20031106153454.GA19043@doxdesk.com>

"jsWalter" <jsWalter at torres.ws> wrote:

> I've brought this up here before, it's my Text/TextArea status bar
> script/css.

A new one to me. :-)

> Nothing is visible in Konqueror.

Ah yes. Debugging in Konq isn't entirely fun, what with the lack of
error messages, and the blocking of javascript: URLs in the address bar.

Your immediate problem appears to be:

  if($_objForm.nodeName == "FORM")

In Konqueror, the nodeName is 'form' in lower case. The same goes for
'TEXTAREA' and so on. This is as if it is in XML-parsing mode, which is
odd since it is not enforcing case-sensitivity in CSS, nor failing to
render the page as HTML due to the lack of XHTML namespace (declared
or used in createElement).

Probably best to upper-case the nodeName before testing, and go back
to XHTML 1.0 (since technically 1.1 shouldn't be served as text/html or
rely on non-XML-parsing stuff).

You should probably be aware that (a) added arbitrary attributes to
elements isn't necessarily guaranteed to work, (b) innerHTML and
offsetWidth aren't standard, (c) settings a style.width property to an
integer value is bad, and (c) all those dollar variables are pretty
weird. But you likely knew that. ;-)

Finally, I can't work out what this is doing:

  function setBar ( evt )
  {
    // local var evt refers to current event
    // evt could also be a passed in Form Object
    evt = (evt) ? evt : ((event) ? event : null);
    // If evt is a Form Object, redefine it.
    // If evt is an EVENT, then find out which Object called this
    var $_objFormElement = evt.target ? evt.target : (evt.srcElement ? evt.srcElement : evt);


If setBar is being called by the event.js module (as it seems to be),
then you don't need to do all this: the target is passed as the first
parameter. You can just say:

  function setBar($_objFormElement, eventType)
  { ...

You also don't need to set setBar to be a method of the element object,
it works fine as a normal standalone function.

HTH!

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/

From john at videoisland.com  Thu Nov  6 11:20:55 2003
From: john at videoisland.com (John Handelaar)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:20:55 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Google and redirect handling
Message-ID: <FOEHIGAIODCIIPCIEOAPMEBKCBAA.john@videoisland.com>


So, exactly how many redirects on entry to a site
*is* too many for Googlebot?

I'm changing one at the moment to use a single 302
header depending on state-of-logged-in-ness, but
am concerned that even one may be too many.

Ah, the grubby details of commerce sites.  It's been
a few years...

TIA


------------------------------------------
John Handelaar

T +44 20 7446 7554       M +44 7930 681789
F +44 20 7446 7555  E john at videoisland.com
------------------------------------------
Work:   http://videoisland.com/?u=88-3&l=1
Home:                 http://handelaar.org
------------------------------------------

From cgeorge at basecorp.com  Thu Nov  6 11:36:45 2003
From: cgeorge at basecorp.com (Chris George)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:36:45 -0700
Subject: [thelist] Google and redirect handling
Message-ID: <6E85D194CD14D341AB3AF41DB59D1BAE0DE8BD@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com>


Hey - I just worked with a company that used a 302 for their home page.
They haven't been indexed by google - ever - until they removed the 302.
Now they are slowly getting indexed and freshened on a somewhat regular
basis.

It was an extremely frustrating project to work on, because I was under
the impression that 302's were ok - but maybe not on the home page?

So, for that particular circumstance, one 302 was one to many. But, as
always, especially with search engines, ymmv.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Handelaar [mailto:john at videoisland.com] 
> 
> 
> So, exactly how many redirects on entry to a site
> *is* too many for Googlebot?

From meredith at pintsize.com  Fri Nov  7 12:39:09 2003
From: meredith at pintsize.com (Meredith Tupper)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:39:09 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Form recipient addresses in dropdown menu?
References: <3FAB52BF.1010505@pintsize.com> <oprx7iaksic4uo5t@localhost>
	<6.0.0.22.0.20031106081307.023b2d60@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
	<oprx7i2laac4uo5t@localhost> <oprx7jn3a5c4uo5t@localhost>
Message-ID: <3FABE6CD.4030602@pintsize.com>

Tony Crockford wrote:
> I'm using it here:
> http://www.torbytes.com/feedback.htm

BEAUTY!  Just the ticket.  Attractive site too.

Evolt is golden as always.  :-)

Thanks very much,
Meredith

-- 
PintSize Graphics & Web Hosting, Inc.
http://www.pintsize.com
3225 S. MacDill Ave. #208
Tampa, FL 33629
813-835-5382
meredith at pintsize.com

CONFIDENTIALITY WARNING
This electronic message contains information which may be privileged 
and/or confidential. This information is intended for the exclusive use 
of the individual(s), entity, or persons named or indicated above. Any 
unauthorized access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of any 
parts of the contents of this message/information is strictly prohibited 
by federal law. Any attempts to intercept this message are in violation 
of Title 18 U.S.C. 2511(1) of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act 
(ECPA). All violators are subject to fines, imprisonment or civil 
damages, or both.


From cosming at voltec.ro  Thu Nov  6 10:56:05 2003
From: cosming at voltec.ro (cosming at voltec.ro)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:56:05 +0200
Subject: [thelist] CSS Problem
Message-ID: <003a01c3a486$e439c4f0$e7e1e6c1@voltec01>

Could someone please, please look at this page
http://www.voltec.ro/ro/?page=info and help me troubleshoot it? The layer
containing the text gets squeezed in Opera 7.20, but it displays perfectly
(or at least as intended) in IE 6 SP1. I used layers&CSS (almost no tables
except for the left navbar) so it must be because of the stylesheet. I
assume it's something pretty obvious but I can't quite put my finger on it.
The site in't yet finished so you may encounter some mistakes or missing
content.


From mailers at donotremove.co.uk  Thu Nov  6 11:17:11 2003
From: mailers at donotremove.co.uk (Mike Stenhouse)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:17:11 -0000
Subject: [thelist] setAttribute setting events
Message-ID: <00a501c3a489$d2db0630$6400a8c0@mikebox>

Hi all,
 
I've been struggling with this for a day now and I just can't get it to
work... What I'm trying to do is write a little script that will go
through and collapse the text within each div.charge on the page and
make the div's h3 a link to expand the content. I've got almost all of
this working but I just can't find a way to make the
setAttribute("onmouseup") work across the browsers.
 
I've tried about half a dozen methods of setting the attribute but none
of them has worked for both IE and Moz. Could anyone help me???
 
Only works in IE:
aH3s[j].getElementsByTagName("a")[0].setAttribute("onmouseup", new
Function("hideCharges("+nNodeID+");"));
 
Only works in Moz:
aH3s[j].getElementsByTagName("a")[0].setAttribute("onmouseup",
"hideCharges('"+nNodeID+"')");
 
Page:
http://www.donotremove.co.uk/extra/interent/prices.html
 
TIA!

Mike


Web Developer / Web Designer (Amongst Other Things)
www.donotremove.co.uk <http://www.donotremove.co.uk/> 


From jeff at jeffhowden.com  Thu Nov  6 12:52:26 2003
From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:52:26 -0800
Subject: [thelist] setAttribute setting events
In-Reply-To: <00a501c3a489$d2db0630$6400a8c0@mikebox>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLGEANLKAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>

mike,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Mike Stenhouse
>
> I've been struggling with this for a day now and I just
> can't get it to work... What I'm trying to do is write
> a little script that will go through and collapse the
> text within each div.charge on the page and make the
> div's h3 a link to expand the content. I've got almost
> all of this working but I just can't find a way to make
> the setAttribute("onmouseup") work across the browsers.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

imo experience it's a bad idea to use setAttribute() to assign event
handlers to objects.

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> I've tried about half a dozen methods of setting the
> attribute but none of them has worked for both IE and
> Moz. Could anyone help me???
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

yeah, you've got basically two choices.

1) use some switching code to attach the event handlers using browser
specific code.

or, if you know you'll not ever want to have other code run in addition to
this function call for this event handler....

2) use standard event handler anonymous function
   declaration:

   oDiv.onclick = function()
   {
     myFoo();
   }

good luck,

.jeff

------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist
Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/
Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/


From joshua at waetech.com  Thu Nov  6 13:26:10 2003
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:26:10 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Free Tip - Text Integrity
Message-ID: <02c201c3a49b$d5adf720$0300a8c0@client1>

<tip type="Charsets" author="Joshua Olson">
If you've ever wondered what sort of issues relating to character sets (eg
UTF-8, ISSO-8859-1, etc) might mess up a form posting or inserts into a
database, then the following link may have the explanation for you:

http://people.netscape.com/ftang/paper/textintegrity.html
</tip>

<tip type="SQL" author="Joshua Olson">
If you need to provide a graphical interface (via http) for interfacing with
databases on SQL Server and/or MSDE, you may want to consider the following:

http://www.mylittletools.net/scripts/en/mla_sql/default.asp

It's not a complete replacement for EM, but it does provide many of the same
functionalities as EM.
</tip>

<><><><><><><><><><>
Joshua Olson
Web Application Engineer
WAE Tech Inc.
http://www.waetech.com
706.210.0168


From dannyg at dannyg.com  Thu Nov  6 14:11:18 2003
From: dannyg at dannyg.com (Danny Goodman)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:11:18 -0800
Subject: [thelist] setAttribute setting events
In-Reply-To: <200311061957.hA6JvUsF024923@dannyg.com>
Message-ID: <BBCFEAE6.19B52%dannyg@dannyg.com>

on 11/6/03 11:57 AM, thelist-request at lists.evolt.org wrote:

> I've tried about half a dozen methods of setting the attribute but none
> of them has worked for both IE and Moz. Could anyone help me???

Using setAttribute() for event handlers is too messy in IE (as you
discovered, all it does -- unless you use the function object generation
tactic -- is assign the string value to the attribute).

Since you want to pass a value along to the event handler function, you
might think that you can't use parameterless event binding, but you can get
what you want without too much effort:

elemReference.onmouseup = hideCharges;
elemReference.setAttribute("nodeID", nNodeID);

Then, in your hideCharges() function, get the target/srcElement of the event
and use getAttribute("nodeID") to retrieve the nNodeID value.

Danny
http://www.dannyg.com


From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Thu Nov  6 14:47:02 2003
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:47:02 -0600 
Subject: [thelist] CSS Problem
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E5189@smtmb.tmc.local>

> http://www.voltec.ro/ro/?page=info 

Looks fine in Opera 6 &frac12;

Rob

From justin at dreaminginto.com  Thu Nov  6 15:16:48 2003
From: justin at dreaminginto.com (Justin @ Dreaming in TO)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 16:16:48 -0500
Subject: [thelist] CSS Problem
In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E5189@smtmb.tmc.local>
Message-ID: <001f01c3a4ab$4a40a7e0$0100a8c0@JUSTINWF0QGFD8>

Looks fine in ie 6, windows xp.

Sincerely,

Justin Kozuch
Founder & Manager, Dreaming in TO
Netkeepers.ca - Proud to be a Hosting Sponsor for DreaminginTO.com
w: http://www.dreaminginto.com
e: justin at dreaminginto.com
p: 416-444-5999

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org 
> [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Rob Smith
> Sent: November 6, 2003 3:47 PM
> To: 'cosming at voltec.ro'; 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
> Subject: RE: [thelist] CSS Problem
> 
> 
> > http://www.voltec.ro/ro/?page=info
> 
> Looks fine in Opera 6 &frac12;
> 
> Rob
> -- 
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * * 
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From cvos at netpaths.net  Thu Nov  6 15:20:19 2003
From: cvos at netpaths.net (Cayley Vos)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:20:19 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Re: Google and redirect handling
Message-ID: <BBCFFB12.12BEC%cvos@netpaths.net>

Any redirect on the homepage will make you invisible to the search engines.
However, there is an easy way around this. Do serverside browser detection
and redirect from there.

If a user agent is any browser,  redirect.  If the user agent  is not a
browser, send them to an HTML page.




--

So, exactly how many redirects on entry to a site
*is* too many for Googlebot?








Cayley Vos, Principal
office: 310-372-3086
cell: 360-303-0150
http://netpaths.net
_______________________________________________________
web hosting | search engine marketing | web development


From sam at sam-i-am.com  Thu Nov  6 15:24:52 2003
From: sam at sam-i-am.com (Sam-I-Am)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:24:52 -0600
Subject: [thelist] httrack or maybe wget help?
Message-ID: <3FAABC24.3070601@sam-i-am.com>

I have a need to download a site I'm working on in order to take a 
static snapshot to archive and show the client. I have to do this every 
week or so, and sometimes a few times in succession (as the process 
usually throws up bugs I need to fix then re-download).
I've been using winHTTtrack.. but its quirks and lack of flexibility 
have me looking elsewhere. I thought maybe wget could help, but I don't 
see all the options I need. Here's the things I do like about httrack:

* it's fairly fast, (much faster than the perl script I wrote to do the 
same - being multi-threaded and all)
* it gives some useful options for the filenames and directory structure 
it creates, including creating a filename from the MD5 of the 
querystring - important for me as I have some urls like: 
/?context=codeView and so on.
* it does some re-writing of the html to fix paths like the above

Things I don't like
* i'd like more control over the url->filename conversion (e.g to 
convert /?context=codeView to codeView.html)
* it seems to rewrite the paths in the html whether I like it or not. 
I'd like more control over where and how it does so.
* Its quirky about re-mirroring just a section of the site - in a case 
where I just want to grab changes to one or 2 files, I end up 
re-scanning the whole thing. Files outside of the current project 
definition are treated as external, and all links to them get garbled.
* Sometimes I get duplicates of my files, where it doesn't spot that it 
really is the same thing, so I end up with lots of image-01.gif, again 
with the html re-written accordingly.

I drop the output onto a server, so I don't really need _all_ the paths 
relativized. The option to create index.html files from dir/ urls is a 
good one though.
Other options I'm pursuing are generating a url list as one step, 
possibly editing it, and feeding it to wget or httrack or some other 
program to do the downloading.
I only want to download the (server-generated) html files. All the other 
  stuff I can mirror across more efficiently with beyond compare or similar.

Any advice or thoughts? I'm on a windows box, with most of the cygwin 
tools installed. My perl isn't really up to this kind of task - I can do 
it, but the result is too slow to be practical. The site has around 2000 
unique urls/pages.. I'm shooting for 10-20 minutes max.

TIA,
Sam







From WJHUTTONIII at energy-northwest.com  Thu Nov  6 15:39:39 2003
From: WJHUTTONIII at energy-northwest.com (HUTTON III, WILLIAM J.)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:39:39 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Tip: Image Map Rollovers with CSS
Message-ID: <001E11719A044641ADE9A598940904D402B30DF3@server18.domain1.energy-northwest.com>

A coworker asked me if it was possible to add some sort of visual effect to a single graphic image map.

The underlying image may change often, and he didn't want to spend a lot of time editing the image map, other than readjusting the coordinates, when necessary.

I found a CSS tutorial that got me started, then modified their code to suit our needs.

Wasn't it Picasso that said, "good artists copy, great artists steal."  ;)

Hope that the tip/link help others, and maybe gets you excited about the power of CSS if you're a late convert.

Cheers,
Will

<tip type=3D"image map rollovers" author=3D"Will Hutton">
If you would like to add rollover image effects to an image map, but the graphic you use for your image map changes often, and you don't want to slice the image, and spend hours editing images in Photoshop, try this:

You can use just one image as a base image for your image map, then using CSS, you can place a second image, perhaps with the color desaturated, on top of the first, then dynamically clip the second image for a nice effect.

I got started with help at this website;

	http://www.webreference.com/dhtml/column2/

but modified the code to include clipping values for top and bottom coordinates as well.

Hopefully I can dynamically access the coordinates in the <area> tag to make the code even more reusable.
</tip>



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From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Thu Nov  6 16:08:50 2003
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 16:08:50 -0600 
Subject: [thelist] Re: Google and redirect handling
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E518C@smtmb.tmc.local>

<snip>
Any redirect on the homepage will make you invisible to the search engines.
However, there is an easy way around this. Do serverside browser detection
and redirect from there.

If a user agent is any browser,  redirect.  If the user agent  is not a
browser, send them to an HTML page.
</snip>

Although this sounds a whole lot like white box testing, it may be
inefficient. There are tons of browsers out there with all the versions. Do
YOU know how to recognize MM Contribute's browser?

What if, in 2005, Longhorn hits your front door? not the animal but Windows
newest OS? Granted I don't know a whole lot about it, it won't be your
typical browser. It'll be integrated. 

Of course all this is speculation but you get the idea ... "What if?"

Rob

From jeff at jeffhowden.com  Thu Nov  6 16:46:06 2003
From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:46:06 -0800
Subject: [thelist] setAttribute setting events
In-Reply-To: <BBCFEAE6.19B52%dannyg@dannyg.com>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLOECFLKAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>

danny,

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
> From: Danny Goodman
> 
> Since you want to pass a value along to the event
> handler function, you might think that you can't use
> parameterless event binding, but you can get what you
> want without too much effort:
> 
> elemReference.onmouseup = hideCharges;
> elemReference.setAttribute("nodeID", nNodeID);
> 
> Then, in your hideCharges() function, get the
> target/srcElement of the event and use
> getAttribute("nodeID") to retrieve the nNodeID value.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

too tricky.

relies on browser-specific methods at getting at the target/srcElement.

better to just use an anonymous function.

elemReference.onmouseup = function()
{
  hideCharges(nNodeID);
}

.jeff

------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist
Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/
Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/


From list at jasontordesign.com  Thu Nov  6 16:52:59 2003
From: list at jasontordesign.com (JasonTor)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:52:59 -0700
Subject: [thelist] nested table cell help
References: 	<77025926DDD85A4D886C5B8A34E43E7420BE62@exchange.internal.municode.com>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20031105170756.00b22098@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002601c3a4b8$bab66840$c4d991d1@jason>

Trisha,
Try re-cutting your top image up, it looks as though it could be much more
simple, cut the link portion up and put them in the top row, then cut the
rest and put them in a second row. I took a screen shot, cut them up this
way and put them in this table:

<table border="0" width="775" cellpadding ="0" cellspacing="0"
align="center">


<!-- #1 top row with links here -->
<tr><td bgcolor="#ff0000" colspan="3" width="775"
height="25">Links</td></tr>


<!-- #2 top row with banner image here -->
<tr><td bgcolor="#0000ff" colspan="3" width="775"
height="100">Image</td></tr>

<!-- #3 top row with OKC Wedding Guide text here -->
<tr><td bgcolor="#00FF00" colspan="3" width="775"
height="40"><center>Oklahoma City, OKC Wedding Guide, Planner, Wedding Ideas
& Directory</center></td></tr>


<!-- #1 Left Col here -->
<tr><td bgcolor="#CCFF00" width="125" height="400">Left col links &
images</td>


<!-- #1 Center Col here -->
<td bgcolor="#990000" width="525" height="400">Center col banners and
text</td>


<!-- #2 right Col here -->
<td bgcolor="#CCFF00" width="125" height="400">Right col links &
images</td></tr>



<!-- #1 Bottom row with banner and text here -->
<tr><td bgcolor="#0000ff" colspan="3" width="775" height="100">Bottom Row
stuff</td></tr>

</table>

and it worked out fine, you'll have to adjust this table layout for height
and width but it should work, email me if you need more assistance.

JasonTor
www.JasonTorDesign.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Trisha Salas" <graftedin at sbcglobal.net>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 4:08 PM
Subject: [thelist] nested table cell help


> I have a page at
>
<http://www.jubileedesign.com/okc/help_veronica.htm>http://www.jubileedesign
.com/okc/help_veronica.htm
>
> The top image is nested inside a table cell.  The width of the outside
table
> is 775 px.  The width of the nested table (the banner) is also 775 px and
it
> is centered within the cell.
>
> The problem is the little slice of background showing to the right of the
> banner image table.  I can't figure out why it is there since all the
tables
> are fixed widths.  There is a bkg image in the cell directly underneath
the
> banner image but it is only 4 px in width.
>
> Any ideas as to why we can't get rid of that little sliver of purple?
>
> Thanks,
> Trisha Salas
>
> -- 
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !


From paul at teltest.com  Thu Nov  6 17:16:15 2003
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 12:16:15 +1300
Subject: [thelist] [PHP] variable conversion tip
Message-ID: <3FAAD63F.6020502@teltest.com>

<tip type="PHP and string->number conversion">
Having trouble getting PHP to treat string data (POST or GET) as a 
number for a script calculation?

Multiply the data you are using in calculation by 1 and then use it - 
this seems to tell PHP to treat the data as numeric

# sample code
$duration_in_seconds = ($HTTP_POST_VARS['p_duration'] * 1) * 60;

:)
</tip>

Paul Bennett
Visit
http://www.clicksave.co.nz
For your free report: 
"10 time-killing web development mistakes and how to avoid them"
		



From cs1spw at bath.ac.uk  Thu Nov  6 19:24:06 2003
From: cs1spw at bath.ac.uk (Simon Willison)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:24:06 -0600
Subject: [thelist] [PHP] variable conversion tip
In-Reply-To: <3FAAD63F.6020502@teltest.com>
References: <3FAAD63F.6020502@teltest.com>
Message-ID: <3FAAF436.9000707@bath.ac.uk>

Paul Bennett wrote:
> Having trouble getting PHP to treat string data (POST or GET) as a 
> number for a script calculation?
> 
> Multiply the data you are using in calculation by 1 and then use it - 
> this seems to tell PHP to treat the data as numeric
> 
> # sample code
> $duration_in_seconds = ($HTTP_POST_VARS['p_duration'] * 1) * 60;

You can also use casts in PHP to achieve the same effect, like this:

$duration = (int)$HTTP_POST_VARS;

-- 
Simon Willison
Web development weblog: http://simon.incutio.com/


From ken at adOpenStatic.com  Thu Nov  6 20:52:10 2003
From: ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:52:10 +1100
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Stylesheet based on URL
References: 	<01D68BC74179BF40A96146C6548AFB8A011CE383@casexc01.dimensions.co.uk>
	<01f801c3a46b$ac66a590$0300a8c0@client1>
Message-ID: <012701c3a4da$74789070$0a345e81@careersAD.unsw.edu.au>

ooooh - this is much better...

Cheers
Ken

Microsoft MVP - Windows Server (IIS)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: "Joshua Olson" <joshua at waetech.com>
Subject: Re: [thelist] (OT) Stylesheet based on URL


: ----- Original Message ----- 
: From: "Les Lytollis" <leslytollis at dimensions-corporatewear.co.uk>
: Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 8:09 AM
:
:
: > Yeah, nice solution - thanks Ken - I obviously need to look at the .NET
: > stuff a bit more...
:
: Les,
:
: As with many other languages there is usually more than one way to
: accomplish the same result.  While Ken's solution is correct, I'd also
like
: to bring to the table an alternative:
:
: Add a LINK to the HEAD and then add the runat to the LINK.  In this way
the
: LINK tag itself acts as the placeholder for the stylesheet.
:
: Here's why...
:
: If a new developer was to come look at the page source it would not be
: obvious to them how the link tag was generated if the tag was dynamically
: inserted using the method offered by Ken.  By actually placing the LINK
tag
: into the HEAD tag to serve as a placeholder you give the person a starting
: point (the id of the tag) if they need to debug.
:
: One gotcha is "what if they don't want a style sheet for a particular
page?"
: I'd speculate that instances where the style sheet will not be defined
will
: be the exception, not the rule.  In those cases you could set the tag's
: visibility to false and the tag would disappear from the rendered page.
:
: Here's an example based on Ken's code:
:
: <script runat="server">
:     Sub Page_Load(sender as object, e as eventargs)
:
:         SetStyles()
:
:     End Sub
:
:     Sub SetStyles()
:
:         Dim strServerName as String
:         Dim strStyleSheetName as String
:         strServerName =
: Request.ServerVariables("Server_Name").toString.ToLower()
:
:         Select Case strServerName
:             Case "company1.mydomain.co.uk"
:                 strStyleSheetName = "company1.css"
:             Case "company2.mydomain.co.uk"
:                 strStyleSheetName = "company2.css"
:             Case "company3.mydomain.co.uk"
:                 linkStylesheet.Visible = False
:             Case Else
:                 strStyleSheetName = "default.css"
:         End Select
:
:         linkStylesheet.Attributes("href") = "/inc/CSS/" &
strStyleSheetName
:
:     End Sub
: </script>
:
: <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
: "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
: <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
:
:     <head runat="server" id="theHead">
:         <title>Some Sample Page</title>
:         <link id="linkStylesheet" runat="server" rel="stylesheet"
: type="text/css"></link>
:     </head>
:
:     <body>
:     </body>
: </html>


From octigonuser at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  6 22:38:32 2003
From: octigonuser at hotmail.com (Scott Blanchard)
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:38:32 -0600
Subject: [thelist] parse css stylesheet and list classnames. javascript or
	asp?
Message-ID: <Law10-F44dcJ9Ym6tNE00048671@hotmail.com>

I need to create a pulldown menu consisting of all the classnames from a 
given stylesheet. Can this be done with a javascript routine? Or possibly 
css

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

_________________________________________________________________
Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95.  
https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)


From evolt at funkwit.com  Thu Nov  6 22:40:49 2003
From: evolt at funkwit.com (Paul Cowan)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:40:49 +1100
Subject: [thelist] Multiple versions of IE in one Windows installation...
Message-ID: <1478412624.1068219649@[192.168.2.62]>

For once, it's not a question, it's a possibility.

If this works OK, I do believe it's the greatest thing to hit web testing
in a long time..

<http://www.insert-title.com/web_design/?page=articles/dev/multi_IE>

Cheers,

Paul

From jcbullas at nildram.co.uk  Fri Nov  7 01:26:49 2003
From: jcbullas at nildram.co.uk (John C Bullas)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 07:26:49 +0000
Subject: [thelist] Re: Google and redirect handling
In-Reply-To: <BBCFFB12.12BEC%cvos@netpaths.net>
References: <BBCFFB12.12BEC%cvos@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20031107072112.024339d8@pop3.nildram.co.uk>

At 21:20 06/11/2003, Cayley Vos wrote
>Any redirect on the homepage will make you invisible to the search engines.
>However, there is an easy way around this. Do serverside browser detection
>and redirect from there.

<meta http-equiv="refresh" content="15;url='main.shtml'">

I have a http redirect after x seconds BUT a hyperlink to
the page the redirect goes to on the same page

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=fatbloke+%26+battoad

thus

http://www.fatblokeracing.org/

exists to google and  has a redirect?

also links to a "modifed" directory listing of links to pages I want indexing:
<http://www.fatblokeracing.org/spiderindexonly.shtml>spiders only this way 
bottom left AND I know they can't read ;)

BUT maybe an "immediate" redirect WON'T get you found?

FB



From ben.morrison at dogstardesign.co.uk  Fri Nov  7 04:15:11 2003
From: ben.morrison at dogstardesign.co.uk (Ben Morrison)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 10:15:11 +0000
Subject: [thelist] Re: Google and redirect handling
In-Reply-To: <BBCFFB12.12BEC%cvos@netpaths.net>
Message-ID: <BBD1212F.B6E2%ben.morrison@dogstardesign.co.uk>

On 6/11/03 9:20 pm, "Cayley Vos" <cvos at netpaths.net> wrote:

> Any redirect on the homepage will make you invisible to the search engines.
> However, there is an easy way around this. Do serverside browser detection
> and redirect from there.
>
> If a user agent is any browser,  redirect.  If the user agent  is not a
> browser, send them to an HTML page.

So why does google tell us to use 301 redirects:

http://www.google.com/webmasters/3.html

Any info on this much appreciated as this is exactly what I have just done.

Ben



From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Fri Nov  7 05:11:11 2003
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:11:11 +0000
Subject: [thelist] Multiple versions of IE in one Windows installation...
Message-ID: <Sea2-F12sA6XktM1qjj00016ee5@hotmail.com>



>For once, it's not a question, it's a possibility.
>
>If this works OK, I do believe it's the greatest thing to hit web testing
>in a long time..
>
><http://www.insert-title.com/web_design/?page=articles/dev/multi_IE>

I have heard, but not tested, that this doesn't work as advertised.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
ppk, freelance web developer
Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.quirksmode.org/
Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
------------------------------------------------------------------

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From jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com  Fri Nov  7 06:05:20 2003
From: jay.blanchard at niicommunications.com (Jay Blanchard)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 06:05:20 -0600
Subject: [thelist] [PHP] variable conversion tip
Message-ID: <C8F323573C030A448F3E5A2B6FE2070B01AFAA50@nemesis>

[snip]
> Having trouble getting PHP to treat string data (POST or GET) as a 
> number for a script calculation?

You can also use casts in PHP to achieve the same effect, like this:

$duration = (int)$HTTP_POST_VARS;
[/snip]

And then there is the always handy settype()

http://www.php.net/settype

From chris.price at speed-mail.co.uk  Fri Nov  7 06:16:12 2003
From: chris.price at speed-mail.co.uk (Chris Price)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 12:16:12 +0000
Subject: [thelist] Windows IE folding my page
Message-ID: <BBD13D8C.1870%chris.price@speed-mail.co.uk>

Hi

I have used pure css throughout my site and, generally, it seems to work
across browsers.

However, on my home page I have 3 floating divs that line up nicely on all
my Mac browsers but the 3rd div insists on dropping to the next line in Win
IE.

I have used percentage measurements in an effort to make it work as a fluid
design but it doesn't seem to work.

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

My site is choctaw.co.uk

Ps. Does anyone know why the buttons at the top of the pages on
wigtonmethodist.org are not at the top in Safari & Netscape on Mac.

--
Chris Price
Choctaw Media


From joshua at waetech.com  Fri Nov  7 07:10:05 2003
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:10:05 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Windows IE folding my page
References: <BBD13D8C.1870%chris.price@speed-mail.co.uk>
Message-ID: <03a901c3a530$7648ed90$0300a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Price" <chris.price at speed-mail.co.uk>
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 7:16 AM


> I have used percentage measurements in an effort to make it work as a
fluid
> design but it doesn't seem to work.
>
> Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?
>
> My site is choctaw.co.uk

Chris,

The general rule of thumb is that you should not define none of borders,
padding, and margin if you specify the width attribute, unless they are all
in the same units and you've done all the calculations.

The quickest fix is to define the div's with the set widths (in your case
30%. 35%, and 25% - which does not quite add up to 100%, but should using
this method) and then put div's within those with the border and spacing
rules.  On this inner div do not put any defined width.  Omitting width will
cause the div to fill it's container horizontally.

Sample reference:

http://concepts.waetech.com/50_50/

HTH,

<><><><><><><><><><>
Joshua Olson
Web Application Engineer
WAE Tech Inc.
http://www.waetech.com
706.210.0168


From simon.perry at si-designs.co.uk  Fri Nov  7 07:10:47 2003
From: simon.perry at si-designs.co.uk (Simon Perry)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:10:47 +0000
Subject: [thelist] Windows IE folding my page
In-Reply-To: <BBD13D8C.1870%chris.price@speed-mail.co.uk>
References: <BBD13D8C.1870%chris.price@speed-mail.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3FAB99D7.1050706@si-designs.co.uk>

Chris Price wrote:

>Hi
>
>I have used pure css throughout my site and, generally, it seems to work
>across browsers.
>
>However, on my home page I have 3 floating divs that line up nicely on all
>my Mac browsers but the 3rd div insists on dropping to the next line in Win
>IE.
>
>I have used percentage measurements in an effort to make it work as a fluid
>design but it doesn't seem to work.
>
>Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?
>
>My site is choctaw.co.uk
>
>Ps. Does anyone know why the buttons at the top of the pages on
>wigtonmethodist.org are not at the top in Safari & Netscape on Mac.
>
>--
>Chris Price
>Choctaw Media
>
>  
>
Chris,

Your doc type does not include a link to the relevant specification and 
will put browsers into quirks mode[1]. Even after you fix that it is not 
a good idea to use 100% of the browser window as you have. The CSS 
specification states the width of a box refers to the 'content area' 
only [2]. The padding, borders and margins are then added to this value 
to arrive at the total width. Bingo; even before rounding errors you are 
using more than 100%. Each browser handles this differently but IE is 
particularly touchy and bumps the float down.

Simon

[1] http://www.hut.fi/u/hsivonen/doctype.html
[2] http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=BoxModelHack


From contact at stewartandcompany.net  Fri Nov  7 07:27:10 2003
From: contact at stewartandcompany.net (Stewart & Company)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:27:10 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Windows IE folding my page
In-Reply-To: <BBD13D8C.1870%chris.price@speed-mail.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000001c3a532$db90beb0$39a5aec7@Will>

Hi Chris,

I took a look and can't figure out why it's doing that.  On my machine
they don't line up (IE 6, XP, 1024x768).

At 1024x768, your menu text doesn't line up with the background.  This
is easily fixed if you put an absolute value to the left position.  Your
CSS should be:

#dept1 { position: absolute; top: 0; left: 25px; }
#dept2 { position: absolute; top: 40px; left: 25px; }
#dept3 { position: absolute; top: 80px; left: 25px; }

Or something of that nature.

On a side note: You may want to make the font bigger.  I had a horrible
time reading the print.

HTH,
Will

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Chris Price
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 7:16 AM
To: the list
Subject: [thelist] Windows IE folding my page

Hi

I have used pure css throughout my site and, generally, it seems to work
across browsers.

However, on my home page I have 3 floating divs that line up nicely on
all
my Mac browsers but the 3rd div insists on dropping to the next line in
Win
IE.

I have used percentage measurements in an effort to make it work as a
fluid
design but it doesn't seem to work.

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

My site is choctaw.co.uk

Ps. Does anyone know why the buttons at the top of the pages on
wigtonmethodist.org are not at the top in Safari & Netscape on Mac.

--
Chris Price
Choctaw Media

-- 
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 



From RRust at COVANSYS.com  Fri Nov  7 07:34:18 2003
From: RRust at COVANSYS.com (RUST Randal)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:34:18 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Multiple versions of IE in one Windows installation...
Message-ID: <1A729C6059E7CD4CA1DFE3985E600421034345ED@fth-ex02.covansys.com>

PPK said:

> I have heard, but not tested, that it doesn't work as advertised.

I just downloaded the standalone versions from
http://www.skyzyx.com/archives/000094.php. I launched all three at the
same time and viewed one of my sites that I know has visual differences
in all three, and it displayed just as I expected it to.

One thing that I noticed is that when I checked the version on the IE5.5
install, it says that it's IE 6.0. But it definitely seems to be
rendering as IE 5.5.

----------
Randal Rust
Covansys Corp.
Columbus, OH

From evolt at accessibleinter.net  Fri Nov  7 08:24:13 2003
From: evolt at accessibleinter.net (Bill Mason)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 06:24:13 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Multiple versions of IE in one Windows installation...
In-Reply-To: <200311071200.hA7C0Yg29468@westhost45.westhost.net>
References: <200311071200.hA7C0Yg29468@westhost45.westhost.net>
Message-ID: <3FABAB0D.2050303@accessibleinter.net>

Peter-Paul Koch wrote:

>> If this works OK, I do believe it's the greatest thing to hit web testing
>> in a long time..
>>
>> <http://www.insert-title.com/web_design/?page=articles/dev/multi_IE>
> 
> 
> I have heard, but not tested, that this doesn't work as advertised.

This definitely works as advertised as far as seeing the different 
versions of the layout engine in action.  They respond just as you'd 
expect to Tantek's different IE specific filters 
(http://tantek.com/CSS/Examples/) and they're responding to my site just 
  as I've seen actual standalone IE 5/5.5 installs do.

I have heard that if you use IE conditional comments, all the installed 
versions will believe they are IE6 and react accordingly to the code.

I haven't tested any JavaScript against it, but if you browser sniff UA 
strings even the strings are working correctly, so that's something.
-- 
Bill Mason
Accessible Internet
evolt at accessibleinter.net
http://www.accessibleinter.net/



From ashiel at sportsinteraction.com  Fri Nov  7 08:30:18 2003
From: ashiel at sportsinteraction.com (Drew Shiel)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:30:18 +0000
Subject: [thelist] XPath Parent Position
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031107142950.032442d8@mail.sportsinteraction.com>


Hi;

This is more a question for the sake of curiousity than anything I need 
Right Now. I'm trying to determine (and output), while working in a given 
node, the position of the parent node. What seems to be working is:

<xsl:value-of select="count(../preceding-sibling::*) + 1"/>

I'm sure there must be a more elegant way to do this with position(), but I 
can't seem to get a grip on it. Anyone able to show me how else this could 
work?

Drew.



From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  7 08:46:13 2003
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 06:46:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [thelist] CSS, standards and mobile device content (any experts?)
Message-ID: <20031107144613.62879.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>

Greets,

Just getting comments back on my HTML/CSS guidelines at my company.
One point I had made for XHTML and CSS was the ability to repurpose
that content without having to completely re-write it. Using
standards compliant XHTML can allow you to get your content into
alternate devices. Dandy.

Here are a couple of comments I got back:

"...tries to oversell the merits of CSS to solve mobile device
problems a little bit. I don?t believe any of (our) device
development to date has been in HTML.  It?s been J2ME or WML.

The Nextel phones only support a very crude HTML implementation.
Given the small screen sizes, crude MMI, and network bandwidth
limitations (6 kbps for Nextel), I think the reality today is still
that good ?content? or application user interfaces must be
re-authored for devices.

Don?t get me wrong, I think we should encourage the use of CSS, just
not position it as being able to solve most device problems today."

I believe the Nextel phones support HTML 3.2.

My point was not that CSS on its own solved these problems, but that
the separation of content and style, and having well formed and valid
XHTML allows you to re-purpose your content *without* re-authoring.

What I'm looking for is anyone who has actually done this. What tools
did you use? XML? XSLT? What devices? Did you take XHTML and move it
to something else? 

Anything else anyone is willing to offer. We need to find out the
best business solutions. My company is doing a lot of work in mobile
tech and this is going to be important for us.

TIA

Tom



=====
http://www.pixelmech.com/ :: Web Development Services
http://www.DMXzone.com/ :: JavaScript Author / Every Friday!
http://www.thywordistruth.net/ :: Eternal Life

"I'll ho ho and ha ha you!" (Daffy Duck)

From Jono at brookgroup.com  Fri Nov  7 08:48:01 2003
From: Jono at brookgroup.com (Jono Young)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 09:48:01 -0500
Subject: [thelist] httrack or maybe wget help?
In-Reply-To: <3FAABC24.3070601@sam-i-am.com>
Message-ID: <BBD11AD0.8035%Jono@brookgroup.com>

I am not all too familiar with what you are looking to do, but I think the
company Blue Squirrel might have an application to help you out.  I had to
grab entire sites before, and I used Blue Squirrels' Web Wacker, and
Grab-A-Site.  

Take a look here:
<http://www.bluesquirrel.com/>

On 11/6/03 4:24 PM, "Sam-I-Am" <sam at sam-i-am.com> wrote:

> I have a need to download a site I'm working on in order to take a
> static snapshot to archive and show the client. I have to do this every
> week or so, and sometimes a few times in succession (as the process
> usually throws up bugs I need to fix then re-download).
> I've been using winHTTtrack.. but its quirks and lack of flexibility
> have me looking elsewhere. I thought maybe wget could help, but I don't
> see all the options I need. Here's the things I do like about httrack:

-- 
Jono Young
Designer/Illustrator



From Kili2x at netscape.net  Fri Nov  7 08:49:13 2003
From: Kili2x at netscape.net (Blowhorn)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 09:49:13 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Lynx 2.8.5 is Javascript-aware?
Message-ID: <56C98608.5ED71E89.0004D44F@netscape.net>

Hi, evolters.

While checking my hit counter at scripthost.com, I came upon this raw access log entry:

11/06/03 20:08:54 EST|216.33.229.163|Lynx/2.8.5dev.7 libwww-FM/2.14 SSL-MM/1.4.1 OpenSSL/0.9.7||

On the site I'm maintaining (http://cfc-cfl.g3z.com/), the hit counter will only activate after the sole javascript function I embedded in the page finishes manipulating the DOM.  The function is called from within the body, not as a body.onload event handler.

Now, the browser's user agent string may be lying, of course.  I don't use that value in my scripts, scripthost.com does.  Still, I'm very curious about it.  I may try to install Lynx for further investigation.

BTW, the pop-up and banner ads provided by g3z.com prevent any of my pages from validating.  Hopefully once I find a job and get some steady income, this may change (i.e. domain registration, ad removal, etc.)

                              My first post!
                              Cromwell


__________________________________________________________________
McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network.
Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today!
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Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge.  Download Now!
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From msjones815 at hotmail.com  Fri Nov  7 09:53:55 2003
From: msjones815 at hotmail.com (Mark S Jones)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:53:55 -0600
Subject: [thelist] Re: Google and redirect handling
References: <BBD1212F.B6E2%ben.morrison@dogstardesign.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BAY1-DAV27lUQzcChrB0000e2f2@hotmail.com>

I use the following in my .htaccess file:
Redirect permanent /oldpage.html http://www.mysite.com/newpage.shtml
You can check if you are getting a 301 permanent redirect here:
http://www.seologic.com/webmaster-tools/url-redirect.php
Mark


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ben Morrison" <ben.morrison at dogstardesign.co.uk>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 4:15 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] Re: Google and redirect handling


> On 6/11/03 9:20 pm, "Cayley Vos" <cvos at netpaths.net> wrote:
>
> > Any redirect on the homepage will make you invisible to the search
engines.
> > However, there is an easy way around this. Do serverside browser
detection
> > and redirect from there.
> >
> > If a user agent is any browser,  redirect.  If the user agent  is not a
> > browser, send them to an HTML page.
>
> So why does google tell us to use 301 redirects:
>
> http://www.google.com/webmasters/3.html
>
> Any info on this much appreciated as this is exactly what I have just
done.
>
> Ben
>
>
> -- 
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>

From jan at artmiks.nl  Fri Nov  7 10:20:57 2003
From: jan at artmiks.nl (jan guichelaar [artmiks])
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:20:57 +0100
Subject: [thelist] sending html mails with php
Message-ID: <001b01c3a54b$20882770$1001a8c0@janpc>

Hi all,

I made a site in php, where you can send an email to a friend.
This email is in html and there are pictures in it.
Well it works fine on most OS's, but sometimes people don't see anything or
some pictures are missing.

Does anybody have a link to a documentation on this subject?

thanx

jan


jan at artmiks.nl

====================
Artmiks [image builders]
http://www.artmiks.nl
====================
recent projects
http://www.kluun.nl
http://www.marryyourpet.com
http://www.wereldpost.nl
http://www.margeting.nl
====================

From joshua at waetech.com  Fri Nov  7 10:31:37 2003
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:31:37 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Free Tip - Getting SQL Server to build your table rows for
	you
Message-ID: <049f01c3a54c$9dfff240$0300a8c0@client1>

<tip type="SQL" author="Joshua Olson">
Here is a trick if you need to dump information from an SQL table directly
into an HTML table.  Note, this works on MS SQL Server 2k:

SELECT
    id AS td
  , name AS td
  , username AS td
  , password AS td
FROM admins tr
ORDER BY 1
FOR XML AUTO, ELEMENTS

That will produce an output stream that looks roughly like this:

<tr><td>1</td><td>Administrator</td><td>administrator</td><td>password</td><
/tr><tr><td>2</td><td>Joshua Olson</td><td>joshua</td><td>12345</td></tr>

This block of code is ready to be dropped into a table on the page.

One tricky point is that the result set you get back will have one column
with the data, and the column name will be XML_[GUID].  Most scripting
languages should have tools in place to let you figure out how to get to the
data.
</tip>

<><><><><><><><><><>
Joshua Olson
Web Application Engineer
WAE Tech Inc.
http://www.waetech.com
706.210.0168


From dan at danromanchik.com  Fri Nov  7 10:40:01 2003
From: dan at danromanchik.com (Dan Romanchik)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:40:01 -0500
Subject: [thelist] sending html mails with php
References: <001b01c3a54b$20882770$1001a8c0@janpc>
Message-ID: <069001c3a54d$ca428dd0$6401a8c0@D9J77B01>

phpbuilder.com has an article on sending HTML email.

Dan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Romanchik - Web Developer
dan at danromanchik.com, 734-930-6564


----- Original Message -----
From: "jan guichelaar [artmiks]" <jan at artmiks.nl>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 11:20 AM
Subject: [thelist] sending html mails with php


> Hi all,
>
> I made a site in php, where you can send an email to a friend.
> This email is in html and there are pictures in it.
> Well it works fine on most OS's, but sometimes people don't see anything
or
> some pictures are missing.
>
> Does anybody have a link to a documentation on this subject?
>
> thanx
>
> jan
>
>
> jan at artmiks.nl
>
> ====================
> Artmiks [image builders]
> http://www.artmiks.nl
> ====================
> recent projects
> http://www.kluun.nl
> http://www.marryyourpet.com
> http://www.wereldpost.nl
> http://www.margeting.nl
> ====================
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>



From brian at brianreaves.com  Fri Nov  7 10:56:37 2003
From: brian at brianreaves.com (Brian W. Reaves)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 10:56:37 -0600
Subject: [thelist] pdf's & Bookmarks
Message-ID: <3fabdca8@127.0.0.1>

Hello List,

Does anyone know if you can link to a specific location within a pdf? 
Like using a Bookmark on a web page.

Also, is there a way to link to a specific place in an HTML document 
when there aren't any bookmarks?

TIA,
Brian


From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Fri Nov  7 10:55:09 2003
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:55:09 -0600 
Subject: [thelist] Clever way to mix Javascript and VBScript
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E5195@smtmb.tmc.local>

Hello,

I know some of you may be saying, "What are you doing mixing those two
languages?! They don't belong together." Yeah I know but here's what I want
to happen:

I have a form and when a user enters an ID number, the field right next to
it shows the name associated to the ID number. Basically, or functionally,
when the field has changed or OnBlur, the javascript would go match that
entry to a possible pre-known set of values and spit the corresponding name
to the field next to it.

:-\ Do you think I could use VBscript to call a known set of values, then
write the code that would write the corresponding JavaScript function. Then
in my field that has the OnChange or OnBlur function, call that function
with "this" as an argument and then have that function reset the next field
to something it matched?

The only problem I have with this is that my array could potentially be
20,000 elements long. Doing a client side search (javascript case
statement), might be taxing on users computers.

Your two cents if you please?

Rob Smith

From sabaffy at mswebdevelopment.com  Fri Nov  7 11:08:28 2003
From: sabaffy at mswebdevelopment.com (Steve Abaffy)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:08:28 -0600
Subject: [thelist] pdf's & Bookmarks
In-Reply-To: <3fabdca8@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <ECEOJNOEBBFGGFHOGEOMEEDFMNAA.sabaffy@mswebdevelopment.com>

I'm not sure of the pdf part of the question, the HTML part is rather
simple.

All you have to do is put a <a name="whateveryoucallit"></a> at the location
you want to link to in the html document and then the link in the calling
document would be <a href="/document.html#whateveryoucallit">Click Here</a>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Brian W. Reaves
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 10:57 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: [thelist] pdf's & Bookmarks
>
>
> Hello List,
>
> Does anyone know if you can link to a specific location within a pdf?
> Like using a Bookmark on a web page.
>
> Also, is there a way to link to a specific place in an HTML document
> when there aren't any bookmarks?
>
> TIA,
> Brian
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>



From mike-evolt at teczno.com  Fri Nov  7 11:15:09 2003
From: mike-evolt at teczno.com (Mike Migurski)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:15:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [thelist] Clever way to mix Javascript and VBScript
In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E5195@smtmb.tmc.local>
References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E5195@smtmb.tmc.local>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.52.0311070912540.22127@atari>

>I have a form and when a user enters an ID number, the field right next
>to it shows the name associated to the ID number. Basically, or
>functionally, when the field has changed or OnBlur, the javascript would
>go match that entry to a possible pre-known set of values and spit the
>corresponding name to the field next to it.
>
>:-\ Do you think I could use VBscript to call a known set of values, then
>write the code that would write the corresponding JavaScript function.

I assume you mean using VB on the server, right? Sure, no problem, very
easy. Just have it write out an array where the ID number is the index.
A 20000 element array might be taxing for a client, but you can easily
test this by finding a slow/old machine and checking how much data you can
plow into it before it becomes unbearable.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
michal migurski- contact info and pgp key:
sf/ca            http://mike.teczno.com/contact.html


From gassinaumasis at hotmail.com  Fri Nov  7 11:18:04 2003
From: gassinaumasis at hotmail.com (Peter-Paul Koch)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 17:18:04 +0000
Subject: [thelist] Multiple versions of IE in one Windows installation...
Message-ID: <Sea2-F234Tabchy6NIk00046a25@hotmail.com>



> > I have heard, but not tested, that it doesn't work as advertised.
>
>I just downloaded the standalone versions from
>http://www.skyzyx.com/archives/000094.php. I launched all three at the
>same time and viewed one of my sites that I know has visual differences
>in all three, and it displayed just as I expected it to.

Yes. I retract my earlier statement. It works fine.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
ppk, freelance web developer
Interaction, copywriting, JavaScript, integration
http://www.quirksmode.org/
Column "Keep it Simple": http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/
------------------------------------------------------------------

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus


From brian at brianreaves.com  Fri Nov  7 11:21:17 2003
From: brian at brianreaves.com (Brian W. Reaves)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:21:17 -0600
Subject: [thelist] pdf's & Bookmarks
In-Reply-To: <ECEOJNOEBBFGGFHOGEOMEEDFMNAA.sabaffy@mswebdevelopment.com>
References: <3fabdca8@127.0.0.1>
	<ECEOJNOEBBFGGFHOGEOMEEDFMNAA.sabaffy@mswebdevelopment.com>
Message-ID: <3fabe26f$1@127.0.0.1>

Right, I should have worded my question better. I know how to use 
bookmarks, but I am interested in knowing how to link to a particular 
location on a page I do not own. So I don't have access to add the <a 
name=""></a> to the page, it's not mine.

Steve Abaffy wrote:

> All you have to do is put a <a name="whateveryoucallit"></a> at the location
> you want to link to in the html document and then the link in the calling
> document would be <a href="/document.html#whateveryoucallit">Click Here</a>
> 


From evolt at pixelwright.com  Fri Nov  7 11:33:19 2003
From: evolt at pixelwright.com (James Aylard)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:33:19 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Clever way to mix Javascript and VBScript
References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E5195@smtmb.tmc.local>
Message-ID: <004201c3a555$3cd82fb0$5360398a@newcos.com>

Rob Smith wrote:

> I have a form and when a user enters an ID number, the field right
> next to it shows the name associated to the ID number. Basically, or
> functionally, when the field has changed or OnBlur, the javascript
> would go match that entry to a possible pre-known set of values and
> spit the corresponding name to the field next to it.

    Simple enough.

> :-\ Do you think I could use VBscript to call a known set of values,
> then write the code that would write the corresponding JavaScript
> function. Then in my field that has the OnChange or OnBlur function,
> call that function with "this" as an argument and then have that
> function reset the next field to something it matched?

    I think that you need to step back and clarify what it is you want to
do. First, by talking about using VBScript, are you really asking about
using ASP? Please remember: there is nothing inherently "server-side" about
VBScript -- you can use it client-side in IE. And ASP does not require the
use of VBScript -- in classic ASP, you can use JavaScript server-side, as
well. So, if you mean ASP, be sure not to confuse it with VBScript.
    Otherwise, if you don't mean ASP, I have no idea why you are wanting to
mix VBScript and JavaScript. It can be done, but would be of no benefit to
you in this case, as far as I can see.

> The only problem I have with this is that my array could potentially
> be 20,000 elements long. Doing a client side search (javascript case
> statement), might be taxing on users computers.

    Don't pass back 20,000 values in an array. Do your winnowing on the
server, and pass back only the value that you want. You can either do this
the old-fashioned way, by submitting your form to the server and having it
look-up the value and rewrite the page with the name inserted into the
proper field; or you can use a hidden iframe to do a "stealth" look-up, then
use ASP to return a client-side script to the iframe that will in turn
update the name field. I have done this with IE, and simply loading a page
with a script into the iframe will cause it to execute; I don't know whether
other browsers behave this way.

James Aylard


From simon.perry at si-designs.co.uk  Fri Nov  7 11:33:42 2003
From: simon.perry at si-designs.co.uk (Simon Perry)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 17:33:42 +0000
Subject: [thelist] Clever way to mix Javascript and VBScript
In-Reply-To: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E5195@smtmb.tmc.local>
References: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E5195@smtmb.tmc.local>
Message-ID: <3FABD776.3020404@si-designs.co.uk>

Rob Smith wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I know some of you may be saying, "What are you doing mixing those two
>languages?! They don't belong together." Yeah I know but here's what I want
>to happen:
>
>I have a form and when a user enters an ID number, the field right next to
>it shows the name associated to the ID number. Basically, or functionally,
>when the field has changed or OnBlur, the javascript would go match that
>entry to a possible pre-known set of values and spit the corresponding name
>to the field next to it.
>
>:-\ Do you think I could use VBscript to call a known set of values, then
>write the code that would write the corresponding JavaScript function. Then
>in my field that has the OnChange or OnBlur function, call that function
>with "this" as an argument and then have that function reset the next field
>to something it matched?
>
>The only problem I have with this is that my array could potentially be
>20,000 elements long. Doing a client side search (javascript case
>statement), might be taxing on users computers.
>
>Your two cents if you please?
>
>Rob Smith
>  
>
I think that you would be better served using a hash [1] rather than an 
array to store your data. To access the name you would then use the id 
as the key. Given the size of your data it might be an idea to get users 
to chose a range where their id appears. You can the limit the client 
side hash to X,000 elements.

Simon

[1] http://www.crockford.com/javascript/survey.html


From cgeorge at basecorp.com  Fri Nov  7 11:46:59 2003
From: cgeorge at basecorp.com (Chris George)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:46:59 -0700
Subject: [thelist] Logic problem with a JavaScript image toggle...
Message-ID: <6E85D194CD14D341AB3AF41DB59D1BAE0DE675@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com>

Hi again.

I've run into another problem with some JavaScript. I want to create a
"toggle" for a menu tree (basically, a vertical arrow that changes to a
horizontal arrow onclick, revealing a sub-menu). I have the rest of the
menu completed, but am having problems with the toggle.  Here is what I
have so far:

<SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript" TYPE="text/javascript">
<!--//
var flipBack = "";
var oldArrow = "";

function flip(curArrow) {

if (flipBack && (oldArrow != curArrow)) {
 	flipBack="";
}
alert("curArrow:"+curArrow+", oldArrow:"+oldArrow);
    if (document.images) 
		if (!flipBack) {
        	document.images['image'+curArrow].src =
'images/menuarrow_off.gif';			
			flipBack="1";
			oldArrow=curArrow;
		} else {
			document.images['image'+curArrow].src =
'images/menuarrow_on.gif';
			flipBack="";
		}
		alert("flipBack:"+flipBack);

}
//-->
</SCRIPT>

And then on the link is:
<a href="#" onclick="flip(1);return false;"><img
src="images/menuarrow_on.gif" name="image1"></a>
<a href="#" onclick="flip(2);return false;"><img
src="images/menuarrow_on.gif" name="image2"></a>

The thing is, it *almost* works. My weird code up at the top resetting
the flipback is due to a strange behavior when one button is clicked,
then you click another button and then go back to the first button,
nothing happens. But if you click the first button again, it manages to
reset what it needs to and works properly.

I know my logic is foggy at best... But other than creating a separate
function for each arrow, what is a solution?


From sabaffy at mswebdevelopment.com  Fri Nov  7 11:56:18 2003
From: sabaffy at mswebdevelopment.com (Steve Abaffy)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:56:18 -0600
Subject: [thelist] pdf's & Bookmarks
In-Reply-To: <3fabe26f$1@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <ECEOJNOEBBFGGFHOGEOMGEDHMNAA.sabaffy@mswebdevelopment.com>

Then I don't believe there is away. You can just link to the page which of
course would load from the top..... unless of course the author of
destination page has been kind enough to add a <a name=""></a> link for you.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
> [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org]On Behalf Of Brian W. Reaves
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 11:21 AM
> To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
> Subject: Re: [thelist] pdf's & Bookmarks
>
>
> Right, I should have worded my question better. I know how to use
> bookmarks, but I am interested in knowing how to link to a particular
> location on a page I do not own. So I don't have access to add the <a
> name=""></a> to the page, it's not mine.
>
> Steve Abaffy wrote:
>
> > All you have to do is put a <a name="whateveryoucallit"></a> at
> the location
> > you want to link to in the html document and then the link in
> the calling
> > document would be <a
> href="/document.html#whateveryoucallit">Click Here</a>
> >
>
> --
> * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
> http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>
> For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
> and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
> Workers of the Web, evolt !
>
>



From mikek at brightstorm.co.uk  Fri Nov  7 11:50:32 2003
From: mikek at brightstorm.co.uk (mike karthauser)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 17:50:32 +0000
Subject: [thelist] pdf's & Bookmarks
In-Reply-To: <3fabe26f$1@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <BBD18BE7.21BF3%mikek@brightstorm.co.uk>

on 7/11/03 5:21 pm, Brian W. Reaves at brian at brianreaves.com wrote:

> Right, I should have worded my question better. I know how to use
> bookmarks, but I am interested in knowing how to link to a particular
> location on a page I do not own. So I don't have access to add the <a
> name=""></a> to the page, it's not mine.

Unless the page has anchor tags, you are not going to be able to do it.

If you need content from another page, you could approach the author and ask
if you can take a copy to publish on your site..

-- 
Mike Karthauser 
Managing Director - Brightstorm Ltd

Email       >> mikek at brightstorm.co.uk
Web         >> http://www.brightstorm.co.uk
Tel         >> 0117 9426653 (office)
               07939 252144 (mobile)

Snailmail   >> Unit 8, 14 King Square,
               Bristol BS2 8JJ


From cs1spw at bath.ac.uk  Fri Nov  7 12:14:52 2003
From: cs1spw at bath.ac.uk (Simon Willison)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 12:14:52 -0600
Subject: [thelist] Logic problem with a JavaScript image toggle...
In-Reply-To: <6E85D194CD14D341AB3AF41DB59D1BAE0DE675@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com>
References: <6E85D194CD14D341AB3AF41DB59D1BAE0DE675@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com>
Message-ID: <3FABE11C.2080400@bath.ac.uk>

Chris George wrote:
> function flip(curArrow) {
> 
> if (flipBack && (oldArrow != curArrow)) {
>  	flipBack="";
> }
> alert("curArrow:"+curArrow+", oldArrow:"+oldArrow);
>     if (document.images) 
> 		if (!flipBack) {
>         	document.images['image'+curArrow].src =
> 'images/menuarrow_off.gif';			
> 			flipBack="1";
> 			oldArrow=curArrow;
> 		} else {
> 			document.images['image'+curArrow].src =
> 'images/menuarrow_on.gif';
> 			flipBack="";
> 		}
> 		alert("flipBack:"+flipBack);
> 
> }

When working with nested if statements it really helps to use a 
consistent indentation style - and to avoid any if statements that don't 
use brackets around the body of the statenebt as these can lead to 
subtle, hard to spot bugs. Here's your function with the indentation fixed:

function flip(curArrow) {
     if (flipBack && (oldArrow != curArrow)) {
         flipBack="";
     }
     alert("curArrow:"+curArrow+", oldArrow:"+oldArrow);
     if (document.images) {
         if (!flipBack) {
             document.images['image'+curArrow].src = 
'images/menuarrow_off.gif';			
             flipBack="1";
             oldArrow=curArrow;
         } else {
             document.images['image'+curArrow].src = 
'images/menuarrow_on.gif';
             flipBack="";
         }
     }
     alert("flipBack:"+flipBack);
}

I think your actual problem is being caused by a reliance on global 
variables that cause inteference between the first and second times the 
function is called. One alternative would be to do something like this:

<a href="#" onclick="flip('image1'); return false;"><img
src="images/menuarrow_on.gif" id="image1" alt="+"></a>

function flip(imageID) {
     var img = document.getElementById(imageID);
     if (img.src == 'images/menuarrow_off.gif') {
         img.src = 'images/menuarrow_on.gif'
     } else {
         img.src = 'images/menuarrow_off.gif'
     }
}

I haven't tested the above code, but it demonstrates a different method 
whereby instead of using global variables the SRC attribute of the image 
element is used to track which image is currently being displayed.

Hope that helps,

Simon



From cgeorge at basecorp.com  Fri Nov  7 12:36:23 2003
From: cgeorge at basecorp.com (Chris George)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:36:23 -0700
Subject: [thelist] Logic problem with a JavaScript image toggle...
Message-ID: <6E85D194CD14D341AB3AF41DB59D1BAE0DE8C1@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com>

Hi Simon,

Thanks for your insight.

I tried the other example you give, however, beyond the initial click
(which works), clicking again does not toggle it back.

I threw in an alert to see what path the img.src gives, and it's from
the root - therefore, the path doesn't seem to match the relative path
to the file specified, and I guess that means the first conditional is
being ignored...

Is that Internet Explorer 'filling in the blanks'?

Or?

Thanks again.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Simon Willison [mailto:cs1spw at bath.ac.uk] 
> 
> I think your actual problem is being caused by a reliance on global 
> variables that cause interference between the first and second 
> times the 
> function is called. One alternative would be to do something 
> like this:
> 
> <a href="#" onclick="flip('image1'); return false;"><img 
> src="images/menuarrow_on.gif" id="image1" alt="+"></a>
> 
> function flip(imageID) {
>      var img = document.getElementById(imageID);
>      if (img.src == 'images/menuarrow_off.gif') {
>          img.src = 'images/menuarrow_on.gif'
>      } else {
>          img.src = 'images/menuarrow_off.gif'
>      }
> }

From cs1spw at bath.ac.uk  Fri Nov  7 12:54:20 2003
From: cs1spw at bath.ac.uk (Simon Willison)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 12:54:20 -0600
Subject: [thelist] Logic problem with a JavaScript image toggle...
In-Reply-To: <6E85D194CD14D341AB3AF41DB59D1BAE0DE8C1@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com>
References: <6E85D194CD14D341AB3AF41DB59D1BAE0DE8C1@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com>
Message-ID: <3FABEA5C.8020107@bath.ac.uk>

Chris George wrote:
> I tried the other example you give, however, beyond the initial click
> (which works), clicking again does not toggle it back.
> 
> I threw in an alert to see what path the img.src gives, and it's from
> the root - therefore, the path doesn't seem to match the relative path
> to the file specified, and I guess that means the first conditional is
> being ignored...

Aah I'd forgotten about that. You can fix that using a string find 
operation:

function flip(imageID) {
     var img = document.getElementById(imageID);
     if (img.src.indexOf('menuarrow_off.gif') > -1) {
         img.src = 'images/menuarrow_on.gif'
     } else {
         img.src = 'images/menuarrow_off.gif'
     }
}


From thelist at meidomus.com  Fri Nov  7 12:57:38 2003
From: thelist at meidomus.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 21:57:38 +0300
Subject: [thelist] Free Tip - Getting SQL Server to build your table rows
 for	you
In-Reply-To: <049f01c3a54c$9dfff240$0300a8c0@client1>
References: <049f01c3a54c$9dfff240$0300a8c0@client1>
Message-ID: <3FABEB22.7030809@meidomus.com>

Joshua Olson wrote:

> Here is a trick if you need to dump information from an SQL table directly
> into an HTML table.  Note, this works on MS SQL Server 2k:
> 
> SELECT
>     id AS td
>   , name AS td
>   , username AS td
>   , password AS td
> FROM admins tr
> ORDER BY 1
> FOR XML AUTO, ELEMENTS
> 
> That will produce an output stream that looks roughly like this:
> 
> <tr><td>1</td><td>Administrator</td><td>administrator</td><td>password</td><
> /tr><tr><td>2</td><td>Joshua Olson</td><td>joshua</td><td>12345</td></tr>
> 
> This block of code is ready to be dropped into a table on the page.
> 
> One tricky point is that the result set you get back will have one column
> with the data, and the column name will be XML_[GUID].  Most scripting
> languages should have tools in place to let you figure out how to get to the
> data.

fwiw, MySQL 4.0 will also produce query results as XML :)

-- 
Burhan Khalid
thelist[at]meidomus[dot]com
http://www.meidomus.com
-----------------------
"Documentation is like sex: when it is good,
  it is very, very good; and when it is bad,
  it is better than nothing."


From jason at designshift.com  Fri Nov  7 13:04:48 2003
From: jason at designshift.com (Jason Sweeney)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:04:48 -0400
Subject: [thelist] Site Check: Problem in IE5 Mac
Message-ID: <3FABECD0.2090707@designshift.com>

Wondering if some lucky soul(s) with a Mac could assist me with a
problem I have been informed we are having with our site:

http://www.dalgrad.dal.ca/

According to a few people who have contacted me, the site has some
problems in IE 5 (Mac). Here are their notes to me:

"It doesn't stop loading -- specifically, the status keeps changing too
fast to read, but I think I see "Sending request for /fgs.css" and
"Sending request for /print.css". The progress bar at the lower right
keeps changing back and forth, as the status text changes. The two
combined are very distracting. And it *never* stops."

* no idea what is up with that one

"The bottom box of the four boxes on the right is indented to the left
an extra 9(?) pixels."

* this may be a box-model problem, but I could be widely off-base here...

"Sometimes an entire page appears blank.  Sometimes it appears normally. 
Sometimes links disappear when the cursor moves over them. Sometimes 
links appear as grey blocks. It occurs most often in the menu on the 
left side but also in some of the main text areas. When the cursor moves 
           up and down the menu on the left, some of the titles go blank. "

* dazed and confused about this one

The home page validates as XHTML Transitional. (The rest of the site... 
I'm still working on it.) The CSS validates.

I've lately been doing site modifications, cleaning up the code and
moving towards compliant XHTML throughout the site. I'm also working on
cleaning up the CSS (note "working on"). As I've just heard abouth these
problems, I'm assuming something I've done recently has messed things up
for IE5 (Mac). I just have no idea what. Any help would be appreciated.

thanks,

jason sweeney



From Tim.Kuhn at gettyimages.com  Fri Nov  7 13:21:26 2003
From: Tim.Kuhn at gettyimages.com (Tim Kuhn (temp))
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:21:26 -0800 
Subject: [thelist] RE: XPath Parent Position
Message-ID: <05B9FC51BB35C247859214C18073CCB9064A21@seafrexchrestor.sea.amer.gettywan.com>

Ah, my chance to redeem myself after the bogus answer I gave you earlier in the week. 

<xsl:template match="top">
		<xsl:value-of select="//b[@id='fowl']/parent::*/@id" />
	</xsl:template>

Will return "bird" from the following xml. Modify for your own needs.
The term for this is the Parent Axis if you want to search for more information. 

<top>
	<a name="bob" id="dog">
		<b id="tree">b</b>
		<b id="bush">c</b>
		<b id="grass">d</b>
	</a>
	<aa name="tom" id="bird">
		<b id="fish">bb</b>
		<b id="fowl">cc</b>
		<b id="farm">dd</b>
	</aa>
</top>  

Free tip for Friday!
<tip type="xpath">
	Here is a great xpath cheat sheet
	http://www.deepx.com/resources/quickref/XPath-1.0.pdf
</tip>

-----Original Message-----


This is more a question for the sake of curiousity than anything I need 
Right Now. I'm trying to determine (and output), while working in a given 
node, the position of the parent node. What seems to be working is:

<xsl:value-of select="count(../preceding-sibling::*) + 1"/>




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From PathwayEnterpriz at aol.com  Fri Nov  7 13:56:09 2003
From: PathwayEnterpriz at aol.com (PathwayEnterpriz at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:56:09 EST
Subject: [thelist] confirm 144f8769b4601759cf3fc0971f58a176b70acdf4
Message-ID: <129.3470ca0c.2cdd52d9@aol.com>



From moni at emospace.com  Fri Nov  7 23:01:51 2003
From: moni at emospace.com (moni_orife)
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 00:01:51 -0500
Subject: [thelist] User/Content Moderation - Issues?
Message-ID: <000201c3a5b5$6c86c0e0$c503640a@Beanpad>

User/Content Moderation - Issues?

I'm currently struggling with managing our corporations' public
discussion forums.  Currently the company has adopted a lassie-faire
approach due to limited resources and the legal issues associated with
moderating content.

My primary concerns with the content on the forums are:
1.	misinformation
2.	troll posts
3.	attempts at bypassing the foul language feature

I've heard mention of the "Prodigy" case.  My understanding of the case
is that Prodigy claimed to provide forum moderation on their community
sites, but in doing so were required to and ultimately held responsible
for moderating ALL content . some inappropriate content slipped by
moderators and lead to the court case.

Will someone please point me to this case as I wasn't able to find it.

What schemes do you adopt with regard to forum moderation?  How serious
of an issue do you see possibly missing some inappropriate content?
I've thought about making an extensive rules & regulations that members
are required to agree to before signing up for the forums, do you see
this as a place to position this issue?

A bit stuck here - thanks.

 - moni



From evolt at accessibleinter.net  Fri Nov  7 14:18:14 2003
From: evolt at accessibleinter.net (Bill Mason)
Date: Fri,  7 Nov 2003 12:18:14 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Multiple versions of IE in one Windows installation...
Message-ID: <1068236294.3fabfe06f2522@www.webmail.westserver.net>

Quoting Randal Rust:

>>
One thing that I noticed is that when I checked the version on the IE5.5
install, it says that it's IE 6.0. But it definitely seems to be
rendering as IE 5.5.
<<

That's because, from what I've read, IE pulls the help/about info from the
registry.  So it grabs the info from the actually
installed/integrated-into-the-OS browser version.

Bill Mason
Accessible Internet
evolt at accessibleinter.net
http://www.accessibleinter.net/

From thelist at meidomus.com  Fri Nov  7 14:17:32 2003
From: thelist at meidomus.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 23:17:32 +0300
Subject: [thelist] Web hosting advice
In-Reply-To: <BIEFLLOOBDDGPPEFINHJIEJKDKAA.sbraun@rugged.com>
References: <BIEFLLOOBDDGPPEFINHJIEJKDKAA.sbraun@rugged.com>
Message-ID: <3FABFDDC.1080803@meidomus.com>

Sylvia Braunstein wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback.
> I used Arial 10 (2) to compose my message (you can see it in the source html
> of the mail). Why? Did it come out funny?
> 

Well yes actually -- it was still legible, but has a nice wavy 
font-thing happening, so I was curious as I have yet to see that font on 
my system.

I [heart] evolt's auto-strip bot :)

-- 
Burhan Khalid
thelist[at]meidomus[dot]com
http://www.meidomus.com
-----------------------
"Documentation is like sex: when it is good,
  it is very, very good; and when it is bad,
  it is better than nothing."


From rob.smith at THERMON.com  Fri Nov  7 14:20:48 2003
From: rob.smith at THERMON.com (Rob Smith)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:20:48 -0600 
Subject: [thelist] Clever way to mix Javascript and VBScript
Message-ID: <0CEC8258A6E4D611BE5400306E1CC9271E5197@smtmb.tmc.local>

Well,

Here's what I came up with

Part of my form:

  <input name="PartNumber" type="text" onChange="FindDesc(this)"  size="10">
  <input name="PartDesc" type="text"  size="15" value="" disabled>


VBScript :: generates Javascript Function
<%
	response.write("<script language=""javascript"">" & vbCRLF)
	response.write("function FindDesc(id) {" & vbCRLF)
	response.write("switch(id.value) {" & vbCRLF)
	while not PartDesc.eof
		response.write("case (id.value = '" &
PartDesc.fields.item("PartNumber").value & "'):  " & vbCRLF & "
myForm.PartDesc.value='" &
replace(PartDesc.fields.item("PartDescription").value,"'", "\'") & "' " &
vbCRLF & "     break "& vbCRLF)
		PartDesc.movenext
	wend
 	response.write("default: " & vbCRLF & "
myForm.PartDesc.value='no part matched' " & vbCRLF)
	response.write("     myForm.PartNumber.value=' ' "& "}" & vbCRLF)
	response.write("}" & vbCRLF)
	response.write("</script>" & vbCRLF)
%>

It works great!

Thanks listeroo's,

Rob

p.s. do you see anything really wrong with this?

From thelist at meidomus.com  Fri Nov  7 14:37:36 2003
From: thelist at meidomus.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 23:37:36 +0300
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Mutt and SMTP
Message-ID: <3FAC0290.6020605@meidomus.com>

Greetings :

    Hoping someone here is familiar with Mutt.  I am trying to avoid 
using X as much as possible for my linux box, and I found that Mutt was 
a good email client. However, I'm having a few problems trying to 
configure it for multiple SMTP servers.

    It is my understanding that mutt doesn't do SMTP, but rather it just 
sends off the email to a service on the local host that is listening on 
25. Is this correct? If so, what MTA can I use so that I can configure 
it to send via smtp.work.com for emails that are coming from my work 
email address, and smtp.play.com for emails that are from my other email 
addresses?  For now, I'm using ssmtp -- but having a bit of a headache 
trying to get it to work.

    Upon searching the mutt-users mailing list, I found an interesting 
thread that stated in short that windows email clients (example given 
was for netscape mail) have their own built-in smtp server that just 
relays to the external smtp server ... is this true?

Thanks for any insights :)

<tip type="php editor">

   Looking for a good editor for PHP that
   provides "intellisense"-style code lookups
   (and is free)? Try SciTE ( http://www.scintilla.org )

   Works on both Windows and Linux (requires X)

</tip>
-- 
Burhan Khalid
thelist[at]meidomus[dot]com
http://www.meidomus.com
-----------------------
"Documentation is like sex: when it is good,
  it is very, very good; and when it is bad,
  it is better than nothing."


From cs1spw at bath.ac.uk  Fri Nov  7 14:44:58 2003
From: cs1spw at bath.ac.uk (Simon Willison)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:44:58 -0600
Subject: [thelist] User/Content Moderation - Issues?
In-Reply-To: <000201c3a5b5$6c86c0e0$c503640a@Beanpad>
References: <000201c3a5b5$6c86c0e0$c503640a@Beanpad>
Message-ID: <3FAC044A.6000300@bath.ac.uk>

You may find the following site of interest:

http://www.everythinginmoderation.org/

It's an excellent blog on the topic of moderation and managing online 
communities. It's quite new, so it's worth reading through the archive 
as it currently won't take too long.

Cheers,

Simon


From JOHN.PEARSON at eia.doe.gov  Fri Nov  7 15:35:48 2003
From: JOHN.PEARSON at eia.doe.gov (Pearson, John)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:35:48 -0500
Subject: [thelist] pdf's & Bookmarks
Message-ID: <5C8AD2C845ED3E43AEF65E40FC02A8BDC9BCBC@emailf2.eia.doe.gov>

I seem to remember that if the pdf has internal bookmarks then you can link to
them as in mypdf.pdf#bookmark. This should be documented in the help file for the
full acrobat distiller. 

 | -----Original Message-----
 | From: mike karthauser [mailto:mikek at brightstorm.co.uk]
 | Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 12:51 PM
 | To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
 | Subject: Re: [thelist] pdf's & Bookmarks
 | 
 | 
 | on 7/11/03 5:21 pm, Brian W. Reaves at brian at brianreaves.com wrote:
 | 
 | > Right, I should have worded my question better. I know how to use
 | > bookmarks, but I am interested in knowing how to link to a 
 | particular
 | > location on a page I do not own. So I don't have access to 
 | add the <a
 | > name=""></a> to the page, it's not mine.
 | 
 | Unless the page has anchor tags, you are not going to be 
 | able to do it.
 | 
 | If you need content from another page, you could approach 
 | the author and ask
 | if you can take a copy to publish on your site..
 | 
 | -- 
 | Mike Karthauser 
 | Managing Director - Brightstorm Ltd
 | 
 | Email       >> mikek at brightstorm.co.uk
 | Web         >> http://www.brightstorm.co.uk
 | Tel         >> 0117 9426653 (office)
 |                07939 252144 (mobile)
 | 
 | Snailmail   >> Unit 8, 14 King Square,
 |                Bristol BS2 8JJ
 | 
 | -- 
 | * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
 | http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
 | 
 | For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
 | and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
 | Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
 | 


From JOHN.PEARSON at eia.doe.gov  Fri Nov  7 15:48:37 2003
From: JOHN.PEARSON at eia.doe.gov (Pearson, John)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:48:37 -0500
Subject: [thelist] pdf's & Bookmarks
Message-ID: <5C8AD2C845ED3E43AEF65E40FC02A8BDC9BCBD@emailf2.eia.doe.gov>


Yes you can, in your hyperlink from the html file use something to the
effect of:


  <a href=http://www.adobe.com/prodlist.pdf#page=3>


Go to a page page=page_number The page number must be an inte-ger.
A PDF file's first page has a page
number of 1.

to open the document to a particular
page or destination or set it to open with bookmarks displayed. To include
one
of these action commands with your <HREF> link, type a number sign (#) and
then the command immediately after the PDF filename.

 | -----Original Message-----
 | From: Pearson, John [mailto:JOHN.PEARSON at eia.doe.gov]
 | Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 4:36 PM
 | To: 'thelist at lists.evolt.org'
 | Subject: RE: [thelist] pdf's & Bookmarks
 | 
 | 
 | I seem to remember that if the pdf has internal bookmarks 
 | then you can link to
 | them as in mypdf.pdf#bookmark. This should be documented in 
 | the help file for the
 | full acrobat distiller. 
 | 
 |  | -----Original Message-----
 |  | From: mike karthauser [mailto:mikek at brightstorm.co.uk]
 |  | Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 12:51 PM
 |  | To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
 |  | Subject: Re: [thelist] pdf's & Bookmarks
 |  | 
 |  | 
 |  | on 7/11/03 5:21 pm, Brian W. Reaves at 
 | brian at brianreaves.com wrote:
 |  | 
 |  | > Right, I should have worded my question better. I know 
 | how to use
 |  | > bookmarks, but I am interested in knowing how to link to a 
 |  | particular
 |  | > location on a page I do not own. So I don't have access to 
 |  | add the <a
 |  | > name=""></a> to the page, it's not mine.
 |  | 
 |  | Unless the page has anchor tags, you are not going to be 
 |  | able to do it.
 |  | 
 |  | If you need content from another page, you could approach 
 |  | the author and ask
 |  | if you can take a copy to publish on your site..
 |  | 
 |  | -- 
 |  | Mike Karthauser 
 |  | Managing Director - Brightstorm Ltd
 |  | 
 |  | Email       >> mikek at brightstorm.co.uk
 |  | Web         >> http://www.brightstorm.co.uk
 |  | Tel         >> 0117 9426653 (office)
 |  |                07939 252144 (mobile)
 |  | 
 |  | Snailmail   >> Unit 8, 14 King Square,
 |  |                Bristol BS2 8JJ
 |  | 
 |  | -- 
 |  | * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
 |  | http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
 |  | 
 |  | For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
 |  | and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
 |  | Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
 |  | 
 | 
 | -- 
 | * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
 | http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
 | 
 | For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
 | and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
 | Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
 | 


From k.neirynck at belgacom.net  Fri Nov  7 16:25:12 2003
From: k.neirynck at belgacom.net (Kristof Neirynck)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 23:25:12 +0100
Subject: [thelist] Tip: Image Map Rollovers with CSS
In-Reply-To: <001E11719A044641ADE9A598940904D402B30DF3@server18.domain1.energy-northwest.com>
References: <001E11719A044641ADE9A598940904D402B30DF3@server18.domain1.energy-northwest.com>
Message-ID: <3FAC1BC8.2070609@belgacom.net>

HUTTON III, WILLIAM J. wrote:
> If you would like to add rollover image effects to an image map, but the graphic you use for your image map changes often, and you don't want to slice the image, and spend hours editing images in Photoshop, try this:
> 
> You can use just one image as a base image for your image map, then using CSS, you can place a second image, perhaps with the color desaturated, on top of the first, then dynamically clip the second image for a nice effect.
> 
> I got started with help at this website;
> 
> 	http://www.webreference.com/dhtml/column2/
> 
> but modified the code to include clipping values for top and bottom coordinates as well.
> 
> Hopefully I can dynamically access the coordinates in the <area> tag to make the code even more reusable.

That can be done easier.
Set the base image as th source of your image.
Dynamically set the image as its own background.
Change its source onmouseover to a partially transparent gif or png.
Even dummies will be able to update it if you make sure the filename of 
your image can be derived from the href of the area.

I created such a script once, it's not rocket science, but it should 
save you some time when you create your own.
Works in msie6+, moz1+ and op7+.
Other recent browsers should have no problem with it.
<http://kristof.f2o.org/test/mouseoverMap/>


Kristof


From live4bacon at optonline.net  Fri Nov  7 17:16:14 2003
From: live4bacon at optonline.net (live4bacon at optonline.net)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 18:16:14 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Mailto Question
Message-ID: <463aec46578e.46578e463aec@optonline.net>

Hi all,
I have a client that is tired of recieving spam to their "info@" address, yet they still want a visitor to clicke a link and have an e-mail open with a correct "To" address filled in for them. 

Any suggestions on thwarting the spammers?

Thanks again,
JP 


From alan at liveinthemix.org  Fri Nov  7 17:23:03 2003
From: alan at liveinthemix.org (Alan Lloyd [Liveinthemix.org])
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 23:23:03 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Mailto Question
In-Reply-To: <463aec46578e.46578e463aec@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <000301c3a586$18fcfea0$67fd86d9@co.uk>

Hello

You could try this link
http://willmaster.com/possibilities/demo/aelgwase.html

It should do what you want.

Alan
www.studentssearch.com

-----Original Message-----
From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org
[mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of
live4bacon at optonline.net
Sent: 07 November 2003 23:16
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] Mailto Question


Hi all,
I have a client that is tired of recieving spam to their "info@"
address, yet they still want a visitor to clicke a link and have an
e-mail open with a correct "To" address filled in for them. 

Any suggestions on thwarting the spammers?

Thanks again,
JP 

-- 
* * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
Workers of the Web, evolt ! 


From pgl at instinct.org  Fri Nov  7 17:41:03 2003
From: pgl at instinct.org (Peter Lowe)
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 00:41:03 +0100
Subject: [thelist] [OT] Mutt and SMTP
In-Reply-To: <3FAC0290.6020605@meidomus.com>
References: <3FAC0290.6020605@meidomus.com>
Message-ID: <20031107234103.GA75176@yoyo.org>

Hello Burhan,

On Nov 07, Burhan Khalid wrote:
>    It is my understanding that mutt doesn't do SMTP, but rather it just 
> sends off the email to a service on the local host that is listening on 
> 25. Is this correct?

Not quite - mutt just uses invokes the local MTA and leaves everything
up to that. The MTA doesn't have to be running on port 25 (in fact, if
you're not planning on running a fully fledged mail server on your
machine it's a good idea to make sure port 25 is closed).

> If so, what MTA can I use so that I can configure 
> it to send via smtp.work.com for emails that are coming from my work 
> email address, and smtp.play.com for emails that are from my other email 
> addresses?  For now, I'm using ssmtp -- but having a bit of a headache 
> trying to get it to work.

I've never personally set up or used a unixish machine that doesn't have
some sort of MTA installed. Most come with sendmail installed as part of
the base system, although a lot of people (including me) like to replace
sendmail with something like postfix (my favourite), qmail, exim, etc.

If ssmtp has been installed somewhere other than the default location
for sendmail (and sendmail hasn't been installed or is disabled), you'll
need to change the "sendmail" setting in your .muttrc. From "man muttrc":

      sendmail
             Type: path
             Default: "/usr/sbin/sendmail -oem -oi"

             Specifies the program and arguments used to deliver  mail
             sent  by  Mutt.   Mutt expects that the specified program
             interprets additional arguments as recipient addresses.

What happens when you try and send a mail? You can normally find out
what's going on from /var/log/maillog - are there any clues there? You
might like to tail -f /var/log/maillog and try sending a mail to see
what happens.

Also, try checking the root mailbox ("mutt -f /var/mail/root" as root
should work), as bounces etc should end up there, and might be able to
tell you what's going on.

>    Upon searching the mutt-users mailing list, I found an interesting 
> thread that stated in short that windows email clients (example given 
> was for netscape mail) have their own built-in smtp server that just 
> relays to the external smtp server ... is this true?

Sort of. Most can connect to port 25 and do the basics for sending mail
(which consists of very few commands); they don't do much else though.

> <tip type="php editor">
> 
>   Looking for a good editor for PHP that
>   provides "intellisense"-style code lookups
>   (and is free)? Try SciTE ( http://www.scintilla.org )
> 
>   Works on both Windows and Linux (requires X)
> 
> </tip>

I forget who it was who suggested this before, but I've been using
Scintilla for a couple of weeks now and it's *exactly* what I've been
looking for as a lightweight replacement for UltraEdit.

cheers,

Peter

-- 
The Czech Republic: Home of the world's finest beer.
Litres drunk by Czechs so far this year: 1,397,933,282.28

 - http://prague.tv/toys/beer/

From jeff at jeffhowden.com  Fri Nov  7 17:54:38 2003
From: jeff at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:54:38 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Tip: Image Map Rollovers with CSS
In-Reply-To: <3FAC1BC8.2070609@belgacom.net>
Message-ID: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLMEKALKAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>

I made something similar some time ago:

http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/imagemap_rollover/index.cfm

.jeff

------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Howden - Web Application Specialist
Resume - http://jeffhowden.com/about/resume/
Code Library - http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/


From dianesoini at earthlink.net  Fri Nov  7 19:53:57 2003
From: dianesoini at earthlink.net (Diane Soini)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:53:57 -0800
Subject: [thelist] Re: hiding source
In-Reply-To: <200311060158.1ahGUe1si3NZFjX0@robin>
Message-ID: <6A20262C-118E-11D8-9F3D-00039358CB42@earthlink.net>

On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 01:58 AM, 
thelist-request at lists.evolt.org wrote:

> The javascript interface provides a very quick interface and doesn't 
> require
> a page refresh.
That was the requirement: Calculate onblur after each form field entry, 
and there were dozens of them. Our users aren't that smart, so total 
obfuscation wasn't necessary.


From dianesoini at earthlink.net  Fri Nov  7 20:05:38 2003
From: dianesoini at earthlink.net (Diane Soini)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:05:38 -0800
Subject: [thelist] htdig
In-Reply-To: <200311061251.1ahR6q7vo3NZFkD0@kite>
Message-ID: <0C217BAF-1190-11D8-9F3D-00039358CB42@earthlink.net>

I've been researching and testing htdig. Does anyone have experience 
with it they could share with me? 


From dianesoini at earthlink.net  Fri Nov  7 20:21:44 2003
From: dianesoini at earthlink.net (Diane Soini)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:21:44 -0800
Subject: [thelist] (OT) Stylesheet based on URL
In-Reply-To: <200311062247.1ai0p13bB3NZFl50@vulture>
Message-ID: <4BEDF493-1192-11D8-9F3D-00039358CB42@earthlink.net>

But this would put white space at the top before the doctype. It was 
brought to my attention on this list that this causes browsers to go 
into quirks mode.

Maybe your server will remove the white space?

On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 10:47 PM, 
thelist-request at lists.evolt.org wrote:

> A simple example would be below. Notice how the bit between 
> <html></html>
> contains no ASP.Net code? That makes it easier to sort out presentation
> issues in the HTML editor of your choice (you can just cut-n-paste it 
> for a
> real quick-n-nasty approach to generating the HTML)
>
> <script runat="server">
>     Sub Page_Load(sender as object, e as eventargs)
>
>         SetStyles()
>
>     End Sub
>
>     Sub SetStyles()
>
>         Dim strServerName as String
>         Dim strStyleSheetName as String
>         strServerName =
> Request.ServerVariables("Server_Name").toString.ToLower()
>
>         Select Case strServerName
>             Case "company1.mydomain.co.uk"
>                 strStyleSheetName = "company1"
>             Case "company2.mydomain.co.uk"
>                 strStyleSheetName = "company2"
>             Case Else
>                 strStyleSheetName = "default"
>         End Select
>
>         theHead.Controls.Add(New LiteralControl("<link 
> rel=""stylesheet""
> type=""text/css"" href="/inc/CSS/" & strStyleSheetName & ">")
>
>     End Sub
> </script>
>
> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
>
>     <head runat="server" id="theHead">
>         <title>Some Sample Page</title>
>     </head>
>
>     <body>
>     </body>
> </html>


From jnabring at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  7 20:27:28 2003
From: jnabring at yahoo.com (Janet Nabring-Stager)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 18:27:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [thelist] pdf's & Bookmarks
Message-ID: <20031108022728.12204.qmail@web41103.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Brian,
You can definitely accomplish 'bookmarking' in a PDF document and link to it from an HTML page.
For some reason, the Adobe PDF people use the term 'destination' instead of bookmark for any linking to a specific section of the document.
What you'll need to do is this:
In Adobe Acrobat, choose Windows - Destinations.
There should be a drop down menu you can click on that will only give you the option to 'Scan Document'  Choose this.
Most likely, it won't return anything, as you don't know how to add Destinations yet.
>From here, you would just go to the section of the PDF you want to link to, making sure the page is at the exact point for the link, and then choose Add Destination from the dropdown menu in the Destinations window.
It's a little strange, but from there you can use the <a href="www.yahoo.com#my_bookmark">My Bookmark</a> syntax without any troubles!
Let me know if you run into any snags - and good luck.
Janet
 
 
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 10:56:37 -0600
From: "Brian W. Reaves" <brian at brianreaves.com>
To: thelist at lists.evolt.org
Subject: [thelist] pdf's & Bookmarks
Message-ID: <3fabdca8 at 127.0.0.1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Precedence: list
Reply-To: "thelist at lists.evolt.org" <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Message: 15

Hello List,

Does anyone know if you can link to a specific location within a pdf? 
Like using a Bookmark on a web page.

Also, is there a way to link to a specific place in an HTML document 
when there aren't any bookmarks?

TIA,
Brian


Janet Nabring-Stager

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard

From dcsquare at myrealbox.com  Sat Nov  8 00:32:52 2003
From: dcsquare at myrealbox.com (Dan CRACIUN)
Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 08:32:52 +0200
Subject: [thelist] httrack or maybe wget help?
Message-ID: <3FAC8E14.1050609@myrealbox.com>

Why don't you try teleport  
(http://www.tenmax.com/teleport/pro/home.htm). I use it for years and 
it's fast and reliable. I think they have a trial version too.

Cheers,
Dan Craciun


From b.mackay at massey.ac.nz  Sat Nov  8 04:44:12 2003
From: b.mackay at massey.ac.nz (Bruce MacKay)
Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 23:44:12 +1300
Subject: [thelist] Regex and converting HTML tags to lower case
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031108234039.01ce4b80@exchange.massey.ac.nz>

Hi folks,

New to regex and predictably I am encountering a problem.  I want to 
convert all HTML tags to lower case.

I can identify the tags in regex, but I cannot find any online examples of 
using that info to convert the tags to lower case.


function fnLowerCaseHTML(strHTML)
   Dim objRegExp, strOutput
   Set objRegExp = New Regexp
   objRegExp.IgnoreCase = True
   objRegExp.Global = True
   objRegExp.Pattern = "<(.|\n)+?>"
   strOutput = ?????
   fnLowerCaseHTML = strOutput
   Set objRegExp = Nothing
End Function

Can anyone help me?  Is it possible to do what I'm trying to accomplish 
with regex?

Thanks,

Bruce


From madstone at madstone.net  Sat Nov  8 05:54:19 2003
From: madstone at madstone.net (Jorah Lavin)
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 06:54:19 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Regex and converting HTML tags to lower case
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031108234039.01ce4b80@exchange.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <00a701c3a5ef$0f39aa30$c13752a6@jorah>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce MacKay" <b.mackay at massey.ac.nz>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>

> New to regex and predictably I am encountering a problem.  I want to
> convert all HTML tags to lower case.

I've never gotten my head around regex myself, but I'm pretty sure that in
order for people to answer your question, they'll need to know what
platform/operating system you are using, and what particular software or
language you are using to do the work... BBEdit? Perl?

However, I will wonder on the side if you might not be happier just using a
tool like Tidy:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/tidy

It works pretty well for me, when I call it from within TopStyle Pro...

Some HTML editors, like HomeSite, also have tools like that built in.

Good luck, and don't give up on regular expressions; they can be very
powerful.

-Jorah


From thelist at meidomus.com  Sat Nov  8 06:52:56 2003
From: thelist at meidomus.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 15:52:56 +0300
Subject: [thelist] Regex and converting HTML tags to lower case
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031108234039.01ce4b80@exchange.massey.ac.nz>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031108234039.01ce4b80@exchange.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <3FACE728.4040806@meidomus.com>

Bruce MacKay wrote:

> Hi folks,
> 
> New to regex and predictably I am encountering a problem.  I want to 
> convert all HTML tags to lower case.
> 
> I can identify the tags in regex, but I cannot find any online examples 
> of using that info to convert the tags to lower case.
> 
> 
> function fnLowerCaseHTML(strHTML)
>   Dim objRegExp, strOutput
>   Set objRegExp = New Regexp
>   objRegExp.IgnoreCase = True
>   objRegExp.Global = True
>   objRegExp.Pattern = "<(.|\n)+?>"
>   strOutput = ?????
>   fnLowerCaseHTML = strOutput
>   Set objRegExp = Nothing
> End Function
> 
> Can anyone help me?  Is it possible to do what I'm trying to accomplish 
> with regex?

It is, but I don't know how to go about it in ASP (which is what you are 
using). In PHP, there is a preg_replace which does what you want. Maybe 
you can find a (or someone can suggest a) ASP equivalent.

Although I'm not a ASP guru, but this link (wrap warning) should help 
you out :

<http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/script56/html/vsobjregexp.asp>

<tip author="Burhan Khalid" type="MSDN Searching">

   Trying to search msdn.microsoft.com for something?
   add site:msdn.microsoft.com to your google query
   and use google to search msdn.microsoft.com

</tip>

Sorry couldn't be of more help :(

-- 
Burhan Khalid
thelist[at]meidomus[dot]com
http://www.meidomus.com
-----------------------
"Documentation is like sex: when it is good,
  it is very, very good; and when it is bad,
  it is better than nothing."


From joshua at waetech.com  Sat Nov  8 12:55:07 2003
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 13:55:07 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Regex and converting HTML tags to lower case
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031108234039.01ce4b80@exchange.massey.ac.nz>
	<3FACE728.4040806@meidomus.com>
Message-ID: <05b401c3a629$d3e50f20$0300a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Burhan Khalid" <thelist at meidomus.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 7:52 AM


> <tip author="Burhan Khalid" type="MSDN Searching">
> 
>    Trying to search msdn.microsoft.com for something?
>    add site:msdn.microsoft.com to your google query
>    and use google to search msdn.microsoft.com
> 
> </tip>

Or, try:

http://www.google.com/microsoft.html

:-)

<><><><><><><><><><>
Joshua Olson
Web Application Engineer
WAE Tech Inc.
http://www.waetech.com
706.210.0168


From cs1spw at bath.ac.uk  Sat Nov  8 17:39:42 2003
From: cs1spw at bath.ac.uk (Simon Willison)
Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 17:39:42 -0600
Subject: [thelist] Mailto Question
In-Reply-To: <463aec46578e.46578e463aec@optonline.net>
References: <463aec46578e.46578e463aec@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <3FAD7EBE.90405@bath.ac.uk>

live4bacon at optonline.net wrote:

> Hi all, I have a client that is tired of recieving spam to their
> "info@" address, yet they still want a visitor to clicke a link and
> have an e-mail open with a correct "To" address filled in for them.
> 
> Any suggestions on thwarting the spammers?

Hide their email address behind a form that has to be POSTed in order 
for the address to be revealed. See http://simon.incutio.com/contact/ 
for an example.


From cs1spw at bath.ac.uk  Sat Nov  8 17:51:22 2003
From: cs1spw at bath.ac.uk (Simon Willison)
Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 17:51:22 -0600
Subject: [thelist] Regex and converting HTML tags to lower case
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031108234039.01ce4b80@exchange.massey.ac.nz>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031108234039.01ce4b80@exchange.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <3FAD817A.50306@bath.ac.uk>

Bruce MacKay wrote:
> New to regex and predictably I am encountering a problem.  I want to 
> convert all HTML tags to lower case.
> 
> I can identify the tags in regex, but I cannot find any online examples 
> of using that info to convert the tags to lower case.
> 
> 
> function fnLowerCaseHTML(strHTML)
>   Dim objRegExp, strOutput
>   Set objRegExp = New Regexp
>   objRegExp.IgnoreCase = True
>   objRegExp.Global = True
>   objRegExp.Pattern = "<(.|\n)+?>"
>   strOutput = ?????
>   fnLowerCaseHTML = strOutput
>   Set objRegExp = Nothing
> End Function
> 
> Can anyone help me?  Is it possible to do what I'm trying to accomplish 
> with regex?

It should be, although ASP makes my eyes bleed so I couldn't help you 
out with specific code. The regular expression feature you need to 
investigate is the one that allows you to specify a callback function 
which takes a matched group from a regular expression, does something to 
it and returns the result ready to be replaced in to the string.

In PHP, you would use preg_replace_callback for this:

$html = 'This is some <EM>HTML</EM>';
function tags_lower($matches) {
     return strtolower($matches[0]);
}
$html = preg_replace_callback('<.*?>', 'tags_lower', $html);

In Python, the re.sub method supports a similar technique:

 >>> import re
 >>> tagRE = re.compile('<.*?>')
 >>> html = 'This is some <EM>HTML</EM>'
 >>> def taglower(m):
     return m.group(0).lower()
 >>> tagRE.sub(taglower, html)
'This is some <em>HTML</em>'

ASP should provide the same feature somewhere.

Hope this helps,

Simon Willison


From beau at hartshorne.ca  Sat Nov  8 20:19:39 2003
From: beau at hartshorne.ca (Beau Hartshorne)
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 21:19:39 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Regular Expression Question
Message-ID: <000301c3a667$ee62cac0$6501a8c0@hartshorne>

I am trying to write a regular expression (using PHP's preg_replace())
that will take a string like this:

She said &quot;hello, world&quot; [<a target=&quot;_new&quot;
href=&quot;link.html&quot;>1</a>]

And turn it into a string like this:

She said &quot;hi, there.&quot; [<a target"_blank"
href="link.html">1</a>]

Basically, I only want to convert the quotes that sit between < and >.
One expression I've come up with would work if there were only ever one
attribute, but sometimes there are several, as in an img tag. The
closest I've come is this:

$pattern = '/=&quot;(((?!&quot;).)*)&quot;/i';
$replacement = '="\\1"';
$string = preg_replace($pattern,$replacement,$string);

This will only match =&quot;anytext&quot; (note the equals sign). It
will match all of the HTML attributes but will probably not match
anything else. I guess I have two questions:

1. Is an unencoded quote (") OK to use in HTML text outside of a tag?
(If this is the case, I'll just do a $string =
str_replace('&quot;','"',$string);.)

2. Can anyone tell me how to re-write the regex so that it *only* makes
changes to the &quot;s that sit inside <>?

Thanks!

Beau


From joshua at waetech.com  Sat Nov  8 22:34:42 2003
From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson)
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 23:34:42 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Regular Expression Question
References: <000301c3a667$ee62cac0$6501a8c0@hartshorne>
Message-ID: <066401c3a67a$cb7c7ca0$0300a8c0@client1>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beau Hartshorne" <beau at hartshorne.ca>
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 9:19 PM


> I am trying to write a regular expression (using PHP's preg_replace())
> that will take a string like this:
>
> She said &quot;hello, world&quot; [<a target=&quot;_new&quot;
> href=&quot;link.html&quot;>1</a>]
>
> And turn it into a string like this:
>
> She said &quot;hi, there.&quot; [<a target"_blank"
> href="link.html">1</a>]

Beau,

I created a solution to the opposite problem in CF:

http://concepts.waetech.com/replace_inner_text/

If you are able to translate from CF to PHP and reverse the logic you may
find that link helpful.

Good luck,

<><><><><><><><><><>
Joshua Olson
Web Application Engineer
WAE Tech Inc.
http://www.waetech.com
706.210.0168


From thelist at meidomus.com  Sun Nov  9 01:16:46 2003
From: thelist at meidomus.com (Burhan Khalid)
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 10:16:46 +0300
Subject: [thelist] Regular Expression Question
In-Reply-To: <000301c3a667$ee62cac0$6501a8c0@hartshorne>
References: <000301c3a667$ee62cac0$6501a8c0@hartshorne>
Message-ID: <3FADE9DE.6070202@meidomus.com>

Beau Hartshorne wrote:
> I am trying to write a regular expression (using PHP's preg_replace())
> that will take a string like this:
> 
> She said &quot;hello, world&quot; [<a target=&quot;_new&quot;
> href=&quot;link.html&quot;>1</a>]
> 
> And turn it into a string like this:
> 
> She said &quot;hi, there.&quot; [<a target"_blank"
> href="link.html">1</a>]
> 
> Basically, I only want to convert the quotes that sit between < and >.
> One expression I've come up with would work if there were only ever one
> attribute, but sometimes there are several, as in an img tag. The
> closest I've come is this:
> 
> $pattern = '/=&quot;(((?!&quot;).)*)&quot;/i';
> $replacement = '="\\1"';
> $string = preg_replace($pattern,$replacement,$string);
> 
> This will only match =&quot;anytext&quot; (note the equals sign). It
> will match all of the HTML attributes but will probably not match
> anything else. I guess I have two questions:
> 
> 1. Is an unencoded quote (") OK to use in HTML text outside of a tag?
> (If this is the case, I'll just do a $string =
> str_replace('&quot;','"',$string);.)
> 
> 2. Can anyone tell me how to re-write the regex so that it *only* makes
> changes to the &quot;s that sit inside <>?

I don't try to do regex ... I'm still learning it myself. However, I am 
curious why you aren't using html_entity_decode()?

(slightly modified manual example):

$orig = "I'll &quot;walk&quot; the <b>dog</b> now";
$b = html_entity_decode($orig);
echo $b;
echo "\n";

This gives me

I'll "walk" the <b>dog</b> now

-- 
Burhan Khalid
thelist[at]meidomus[dot]com
http://www.meidomus.com
-----------------------
"Documentation is like sex: when it is good,
  it is very, very good; and when it is bad,
  it is better than nothing."


From k.neirynck at belgacom.net  Sun Nov  9 06:22:42 2003
From: k.neirynck at belgacom.net (Kristof Neirynck)
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 13:22:42 +0100
Subject: [thelist] Tip: Image Map Rollovers with CSS
In-Reply-To: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLMEKALKAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>
References: <HGEGKGDNDPHDKJGDAIMLMEKALKAA.jeff@jeffhowden.com>
Message-ID: <3FAE3192.8060805@belgacom.net>

Jeff Howden wrote:

> I made something similar some time ago:
> 
> http://evolt.jeffhowden.com/jeff/code/imagemap_rollover/index.cfm

Large parts of the images are just copies of the original so I made them 
transparent.
This keeps filesize small.
I also added onfocus event handlers to the areas to make the image 
swapping usable for keyboard users.
I also got rid of the "onmouse..." in the html which makes for cleaner code.


Kristof


From beau at hartshorne.ca  Sun Nov  9 10:23:01 2003
From: beau at hartshorne.ca (Beau Hartshorne)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 11:23:01 -0500
Subject: [thelist] Regular Expression Question
In-Reply-To: <3FADE9DE.6070202@meidomus.com>
Message-ID: <000601c3a6dd$c5c2d850$6501a8c0@hartshorne>

I am trying to write a function that takes an array of tags and an html
encoded string as input, and then selectively decodes the encoded string
based on the array of tags supplied. I am not using html_entity_decode
because I only want to decode the &quot; entities that lie in between <
and >. I want to leave the &quot;s that are outside of the < and >
alone.

BTW, I made a typo in my example (I had forgotten the = sign after
target). Here's the fixed version:

She said &quot;hello, world&quot; [<a target=&quot;_new&quot;
href=&quot;link.html&quot;>1</a>]

Is translated to:

She said &quot;hi, there.&quot; [<a target="_blank"
href="link.html">1</a>]

Cheers,

Beau

> I don't try to do regex ... I'm still learning it myself. 
> However, I am 
> curious why you aren't using html_entity_decode()?
> 
> (slightly modified manual example):
> 
> $orig = "I'll &quot;walk&quot; the <b>dog</b> now";
> $b = html_entity_decode($orig);
> echo $b;
> echo "\n";
> 
> This gives me
> 
> I'll "walk" the <b>dog</b> now


From mailers at donotremove.co.uk  Fri Nov  7 06:06:58 2003
From: mailers at donotremove.co.uk (Mike Stenhouse)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 12:06:58 -0000
Subject: [thelist] setAttribute setting events
In-Reply-To: <BBCFEAE6.19B52%dannyg@dannyg.com>
Message-ID: <00d101c3a527$a7198140$6400a8c0@mikebox>

> > I've tried about half a dozen methods of setting the attribute but 
> > none of them has worked for both IE and Moz. Could anyone help me???

Thanks very much to .jeff and Danny. I went with elem.onclick in the
end, which seems to work a treat.

Cheers!

Mike
www.donotremove.co.uk


From chris at www.ecleanuk.com  Fri Nov  7 11:05:52 2003
From: chris at www.ecleanuk.com (Chris Marsh)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 17:05:52 +0000
Subject: [thelist] Logic problem with a JavaScript image toggle...
In-Reply-To: <6E85D194CD14D341AB3AF41DB59D1BAE0DE8C1@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com>
References: <6E85D194CD14D341AB3AF41DB59D1BAE0DE8C1@basefs01.corp.basecorp.com>
Message-ID: <20031107170552.M57891@www.ecleanuk.com>

> Thanks for your insight.
> 
> I tried the other example you give, however, beyond the initial click
> (which works), clicking again does not toggle it back.
> 
> I threw in an alert to see what path the img.src gives, and it's from
> the root - therefore, the path doesn't seem to match the relative path
> to the file specified, and I guess that means the first conditional is
> being ignored...
> 
> Is that Internet Explorer 'filling in the blanks'?
> 
> Or?
> 

Try:

function flip(imageID) {
     var img = document.getElementById(imageID);
     if (img.src.indexOf('images/menuarrow_off.gif') > -1) {
         img.src = 'images/menuarrow_on.gif'
     } else {
         img.src = 'images/menuarrow_off.gif'
     }
}

Regards

Chris Marsh


From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  9 14:37:18 2003
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 12:37:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [thelist] odd IE worm or something..
Message-ID: <20031109203718.85131.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi folks,

I have a strange thing happening with my IE on winXP. I've run
ad-aware and a full virus scan which has turned up nothing.

You can see a screen shot here:

http://www.pixelmech.com/review/ieThing.gif

What happens is that a IE window spawns of *its own accord.* When it
happens, I don't know, but in this case nothing was running. I come
back and there it is. You cannot navigate to the window at all, there
is no window per se. The window title seems to be the "==" part. I
can easily alt-F4 and close it or close it in the task window.

It does NOT show up when you alt-tab through open apps. 

Anyone have an idea how I can find out/remove this?

Tom

=====
http://www.pixelmech.com/ :: Web Development Services
http://www.DMXzone.com/ :: JavaScript Author / Every Friday!
http://www.thywordistruth.net/ :: Eternal Life

"I'll ho ho and ha ha you!" (Daffy Duck)

From damiencola at wanadoo.fr  Sun Nov  9 14:49:39 2003
From: damiencola at wanadoo.fr (Damien COLA)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 21:49:39 +0100
Subject: [thelist] odd IE worm or something..
In-Reply-To: <20031109203718.85131.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001801c3a702$ff0f93d0$0100a8c0@ELECTRA>

when you have that window, try alt-ctrl-suppr and check in processes if
you find something supicious.. (I don't know what IS supicious, but at
least try to spot it, ot get a name of some sort to google for)

-----Original Message-----
Anyone have an idea how I can find out/remove this?


From paul at teltest.com  Sun Nov  9 14:59:28 2003
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:59:28 +1300
Subject: [thelist] CSS, standards and mobile device content (any experts?)
In-Reply-To: <20031107144613.62879.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20031107144613.62879.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3FAEAAB0.2010108@teltest.com>

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:

><snip>
>
>Don?t get me wrong, I think we should encourage the use of CSS, just
>not position it as being able to solve most device problems today."
>
>I believe the Nextel phones support HTML 3.2.
>
>My point was not that CSS on its own solved these problems, but that
>the separation of content and style, and having well formed and valid
>XHTML allows you to re-purpose your content *without* re-authoring.
>
</snip>
Correct - 3rd generation mobile devices (commonly those also supporting 
MMS / PXT ) can display xhtml by using "mobile profile" xhtml
( http://www1.wapforum.org/tech/documents/WAP-277-XHTMLMP-20011029-a.pdf )
( http://developer.openwave.com/omdt/xhtml-mp-styleguide/Chapter1.html )

and mobile profile css

( http://www.w3.org/TR/css-mobile )

So the whole mobile internet experience is looking to become intergrated 
with the same markup language sets and presentation tools as desktop 
based web browsing. (Yay!)

//

>
>What I'm looking for is anyone who has actually done this. What tools
>did you use? XML? XSLT? What devices? Did you take XHTML and move it
>to something else? 
>
>Anything else anyone is willing to offer. We need to find out the
>best business solutions. My company is doing a lot of work in mobile
>tech and this is going to be important for us.
>  
>
At the moment, the uptake of 3G devices differs from country to country 
. If you can guarantee the device market you are catering for then (ie - 
your content is connected to a 3g sevice like Vodafone liuve) you can go 
the whole xhtml mp / css mp thing.
The web content / public application mobile device development area at 
the moment either sniffs browser type using tools such as wurfl 
(http://wurfl.sourceforge.net ) to determine device display capability 
or restricts access to content based on pre-determined devices that the 
application isdeveloped for. Both systems obviously have their problems.

As for the best solution, we may need to know alittle more about what 
you are wanting to develop in order to give advice.
ie: Who is the intended audience?
Are their any device guarantees, or is the target "any mobile device"?
Is the site / application for global use or is it location specific?
Is this content-based or application-based work?

=============================================
Paul Bennett
visit
http://www.clicksave.co.nz
For your free report:
"10 time-killing web development mistakes and how to avoid them"


From spambait at onpointsolutions.com  Sun Nov  9 15:03:08 2003
From: spambait at onpointsolutions.com (Bob Haroche)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:03:08 -0800
Subject: [thelist] odd IE worm or something..
References: <20031109203718.85131.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c3a704$e16bec00$0100a8c0@monkey>

> I have a strange thing happening with my IE on winXP. I've run
> ad-aware and a full virus scan which has turned up nothing.

Tom,

I've no idea. Also, I get a connection refused from your domain.

Try SpyBot Search and Destroy freeware -- same concept as ad aware but
better.
(Hasn't ad aware stopped updating their database?)

Another thought, if you have firewall software available, turn on
alerts for when some process attempts to connect to the Net and see if
something new or strange is working behind your back.

Good luck.

-------------
Regards,
Bob Haroche
O n P o i n t  S o l u t i o n s
www.OnPointSolutions.com




From jp at batworks.com  Sun Nov  9 15:39:52 2003
From: jp at batworks.com (James Parsons)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:39:52 -0600
Subject: [thelist] odd IE worm or something..
In-Reply-To: <20031109203718.85131.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <v03130306bbd45953104f@[216.51.235.10]>

Tom puzzles...

>Hi folks,
>
>I have a strange thing happening with my IE on winXP. I've run
>ad-aware and a full virus scan which has turned up nothing.
>
>You can see a screen shot here:
>
>http://www.pixelmech.com/review/ieThing.gif
>
>What happens is that a IE window spawns of *its own accord.* When it
>happens, I don't know, but in this case nothing was running. I come
>back and there it is. You cannot navigate to the window at all, there
>is no window per se. The window title seems to be the "==" part. I
>can easily alt-F4 and close it or close it in the task window.
>
>It does NOT show up when you alt-tab through open apps.
>
>Anyone have an idea how I can find out/remove this?
>
>Tom


Oddly, we're seeing the same thing on a brand new XP system one of my
clients here in town just recently put online. It seems to gotten infected
with something already before I was able to get up there and disabled
ActiveX and install Ad-Aware along with Spybot Search & Destroy. I live in
a small town here in Iowa, and while I'm primarily a web designer/content
manager and run a small web hosting system, I often get called by the
locals when they run into things they can't figure out. Even though I only
use Macs and run the servers on Linux & Apache, I guess I'm the closest
thing we've got to a general system troubleshooter around here, although
I'm not really a Windows expert and do not intend to become one.

Anyway, I've updated anti-virus apps on the system in question. Plus, also,
installed and run Ad-Aware, http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/,
and Spybot Search & Destroy, http://www.safer-networking.org/ (which is the
better of the two, I think), but we don't seem to be getting rid of these
annoying pop-ups. So, either it's something else or we're just seeing some
new hijacker apps that nobody's caught up with yet. For sure, I think
anybody running Windows and Internet Explorer accessing the public Web
needs to disable ActiveX across the board.


<!--jp-->




From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  9 16:34:45 2003
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:34:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [thelist] odd IE worm or something..
In-Reply-To: <v03130306bbd45953104f@[216.51.235.10]>
Message-ID: <20031109223445.12514.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>

--- James Parsons <jp at batworks.com> wrote:
> Tom puzzles...

> >I have a strange thing happening with my IE on winXP. I've run
> >ad-aware and a full virus scan which has turned up nothing.
> >http://www.pixelmech.com/review/ieThing.gif
> >
> >What happens is that a IE window spawns of *its own accord.*

James Said---
> Oddly, we're seeing the same thing on a brand new XP system one of
> my clients here in town just recently put online. It seems to 
> gotten infected with something already before I was able to get up 
> there and disabled ActiveX and install Ad-Aware along with Spybot 
> Search & Destroy. 
> Anyway, I've updated anti-virus apps on the system in question.
> Plus, also, installed and run Ad-Aware, Spybot Search & Destroy,
> (which is the better of the two, I think), but we don't seem to be 
> getting rid of these annoying pop-ups. So, either it's something 
> else or we're just seeing some new hijacker apps that nobody's 
> caught up with yet.

Damian Said---
> try alt-ctrl-suppr and check in processes if you find something 

#1 - What is -suppr? How do you do that?

#2 - Running SpyBot now, I assume if you didn't find anything I
won't.

#3 - I run ZoneAlarm, checked my logs and there was only one High
alert for traffic..http://www.pixelmech.com/review/detail.gif

Althought maybe I should be looking at outgoing traffic? 

#4 - How can I/we figure out WHAT that window is doing? I wonder if
there is a JS to get access to that window or something...

Tom

=====
http://www.pixelmech.com/ :: Web Development Services
http://www.DMXzone.com/ :: JavaScript Author / Every Friday!
http://www.thywordistruth.net/ :: Eternal Life

"I'll ho ho and ha ha you!" (Daffy Duck)

From damiencola at wanadoo.fr  Sun Nov  9 17:13:13 2003
From: damiencola at wanadoo.fr (Damien COLA)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:13:13 +0100
Subject: [thelist] odd IE worm or something..
In-Reply-To: <20031109223445.12514.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001c3a717$0d522700$0100a8c0@ELECTRA>

I meant ctrl-alt-del 
I'm french, SUPPRimer means to DELete
If you're american you can abuse me if you want.

-----Original Message-----
Damian Said---
> try alt-ctrl-suppr and check in processes if you find something

#1 - What is -suppr? How do you do that?


From edc at wnc.quik.co.nz  Sun Nov  9 17:40:31 2003
From: edc at wnc.quik.co.nz (michael ensor)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:40:31 +1300
Subject: [thelist] odd IE worm or something..
References: <20031109223445.12514.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000701c3a71a$e271c140$0d6237d2@oemcomputer>

have you tried disabling Windows messenger?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Dell'Aringa" <pixelmech at yahoo.com>
To: <thelist at lists.evolt.org>
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [thelist] odd IE worm or something..


: --- James Parsons <jp at batworks.com> wrote:
: > Tom puzzles...
: 
: > >I have a strange thing happening with my IE on winXP. I've run
: > >ad-aware and a full virus scan which has turned up nothing.
: > >http://www.pixelmech.com/review/ieThing.gif
: > >
: > >What happens is that a IE window spawns of *its own accord.*
: 
: James Said---
: > Oddly, we're seeing the same thing on a brand new XP system one of
: > my clients here in town just recently put online. It seems to 
: > gotten infected with something already before I was able to get up 
: > there and disabled ActiveX and install Ad-Aware along with Spybot 
: > Search & Destroy. 
: > Anyway, I've updated anti-virus apps on the system in question.
: > Plus, also, installed and run Ad-Aware, Spybot Search & Destroy,
: > (which is the better of the two, I think), but we don't seem to be 
: > getting rid of these annoying pop-ups. So, either it's something 
: > else or we're just seeing some new hijacker apps that nobody's 
: > caught up with yet.
: 
: Damian Said---
: > try alt-ctrl-suppr and check in processes if you find something 
: 
: #1 - What is -suppr? How do you do that?
: 
: #2 - Running SpyBot now, I assume if you didn't find anything I
: won't.
: 
: #3 - I run ZoneAlarm, checked my logs and there was only one High
: alert for traffic..http://www.pixelmech.com/review/detail.gif
: 
: Althought maybe I should be looking at outgoing traffic? 
: 
: #4 - How can I/we figure out WHAT that window is doing? I wonder if
: there is a JS to get access to that window or something...
: 
: Tom
: 
: =====
: http://www.pixelmech.com/ :: Web Development Services
: http://www.DMXzone.com/ :: JavaScript Author / Every Friday!
: http://www.thywordistruth.net/ :: Eternal Life
: 
: "I'll ho ho and ha ha you!" (Daffy Duck)
: -- 
: * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
: http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
: 
: For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester 
: and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org 
: Workers of the Web, evolt ! 
: 
: 


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From harvester at lists.evolt.org  Sun Nov  9 18:00:19 2003
From: harvester at lists.evolt.org (harvester at lists.evolt.org)
Date: 10 Nov 2003 00:00:19 -0000
Subject: [thelist] Tip Harvest for the Week of Monday Nov 03, 2003
Message-ID: <20031110000019.1172.qmail@acornparenting.org>


The tip harvest for the Week of Monday Nov 03, 2003 has been added
to the lists.evolt.org site.  Get it at:

   http://lists.evolt.org/harvest/show.cgi?w=20031103

Week at a glance listing at:

   http://lists.evolt.org/harvest/week.cgi?w=20031103


Harvest Summary
---------------

Number of messages: 359
Number of tips    : 18

Tip Authors
-----------

.jeff (2)
3D"Will Hutton" (1)
Burhan Khalid (2)
Hershel Robinson (1)
John Corry (1)
Joshua Olson (3)
kris burford (2)
Paul Bennett (5)
Tim Kuhn (temp) (1)

Tip Types
---------

3D"image map rollovers" author=3D"Will Hutton" (1)
Charsets (1)
coders working with graphic designers (1)
CSS Design (1)
JavaScript (2)
javascript submission of forms (1)
Mozilla mail and multiple accounts (1)
MSDN Searching (1)
php (2)
PHP and string->number conversion (1)
php editor (1)
SQL (2)
the universal law of presentations - part 1 (1)
the universal law of presentations - part 2 (browsers) (1)
xpath (1)

From madstone at madstone.net  Sun Nov  9 18:05:15 2003
From: madstone at madstone.net (Jorah Lavin)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:05:15 -0500
Subject: [thelist] odd IE worm or something..
References: <20031109223445.12514.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com>
	<000701c3a71a$e271c140$0d6237d2@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <018501c3a71e$6e7625c0$d43752a6@jorah>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "michael ensor" <edc at wnc.quik.co.nz>


> have you tried disabling Windows messenger?

For everyone's information, this isn't the MSN Messenger, but the Windows XP
service...

http://www.technewsworld.com/perl/story/31954.html

Which is used by network people in corporate environments...

http://www.silicon.com/research/specialreports/thespamreport/0,39025001,39116798,00.htm
=====================================================================+

People with Microsoft Windows on their PCs should turn off a little-used
feature that could allow unscrupulous marketers to bombard them with
unwanted pop-up ads, US regulators said on Thursday.
Windows users should disable a backdoor communications channel called
Windows Messenger Service to prevent unscrupulous marketers from filling
their screens with unwanted ads, the Federal Trade Commission said.

The FTC said it had temporarily shut down one marketer, D Squared Solutions.
The San Diego-based company had been selling pop-up blocking software
through pop-up ads that could appear even when users were online but not
browsing the web.

Howard Beales, the head of the FTC's consumer protection division said:
"'I'll beat you, and I'll stop beating you, if you pay.' We call that
extortion, and it's no different in the high tech world."

(snip)

Consumers can find out how to disable Windows Messenger at the FTC's
website.

=====================================================================+



-Jorah

{rant style="whine"}

PS: Please, please, please, please PLEASE remember to trim replies! There is
no need to quote more than a line or two to give a clue as to which part of
the original you are replying to... all of us HAVE the originals, remember!

{/rant}




From pixelmech at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  9 18:25:15 2003
From: pixelmech at yahoo.com (Tom Dell'Aringa)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:25:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [thelist] odd IE worm or something..
In-Reply-To: <000701c3a71a$e271c140$0d6237d2@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <20031110002515.96205.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>


--- michael ensor <edc at wnc.quik.co.nz> wrote:
> have you tried disabling Windows messenger?

Did that ages ago, it's not windows messages at all.

Tom

=====
http://www.pixelmech.com/ :: Web Development Services
http://www.DMXzone.com/ :: JavaScript Author / Every Friday!
http://www.thywordistruth.net/ :: Eternal Life

"I'll ho ho and ha ha you!" (Daffy Duck)

From b.mackay at massey.ac.nz  Sun Nov  9 16:28:25 2003
From: b.mackay at massey.ac.nz (Bruce MacKay)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:28:25 +1300
Subject: [thelist] re. Regex and converting HTML tags to lower case
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031110112556.037568d8@exchange.massey.ac.nz>

The background from which my query arises is....

The HTML string is coming from an online wysiwyg editor.  The string is 
being processed with VBScript within an ASP environment.

Cheers,

Bruce


From kr43m0r at earthlink.net  Sun Nov  9 19:41:58 2003
From: kr43m0r at earthlink.net (Lonnie)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:41:58 -0600
Subject: Fear-mongering was [thelist] odd IE worm or something..
References: 	<20031109223445.12514.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com><000701c3a71a$e271c140$0d6237d2@oemcomputer>
	<018501c3a71e$6e7625c0$d43752a6@jorah>
Message-ID: <000d01c3a72b$d4e6be70$6401a8c0@yoda>

> > have you tried disabling Windows messenger?
>
> For everyone's information, this isn't the MSN Messenger, but the Windows
XP
> service...
>
> http://www.technewsworld.com/perl/story/31954.html
>
> Which is used by network people in corporate environments...
>
>
http://www.silicon.com/research/specialreports/thespamreport/0,39025001,39116798,00.htm
> =====================================================================+
>
> People with Microsoft Windows on their PCs should turn off a little-used
> feature that could allow unscrupulous marketers to bombard them with
> unwanted pop-up ads, US regulators said on Thursday.

I had hoped that emails I receive from professional lists such as this would
not contain the sort of fear-mongering crap that is usally spread by newbies
who blindly "send this to everyone you know in your email address book" -
then compromise ALL their friends' email addresses by stacking them all into
the To: field of one email.

Isn't Spam enough to deal with? Do we need to be subjected - as if fact - to
every clueless journalist's headline grabbing tactic?

Look out folks. We're likely to soon get another clever solution from the
headlemur. Something like, "Turn OFF your computer. Unplug it from the wall.
Place it carefully in the back corner of your closet. You are now FULLY
protected from any and all potentially destructive software exploits.

FACTS folks - like experiences - not headline conjecture is going to help
Tom solve his conundrum.



From paul at teltest.com  Sun Nov  9 19:57:01 2003
From: paul at teltest.com (Paul Bennett)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:57:01 +1300
Subject: Fear-mongering was [thelist] odd IE worm or something..
In-Reply-To: <000d01c3a72b$d4e6be70$6401a8c0@yoda>
References: 	<20031109223445.12514.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com><000701c3a71a$e271c140$0d6237d2@oemcomputer>
	<018501c3a71e$6e7625c0$d43752a6@jorah> <000d01c3a72b$d4e6be70$6401a8c0@yoda>
Message-ID: <3FAEF06D.4020802@teltest.com>

Lonnie ranted:

>I had hoped that emails I receive from professional lists such as this would
>not contain the sort of fear-mongering crap that is usally spread by newbies
>who blindly "send this to everyone you know in your email address book" -
>then compromise ALL their friends' email addresses by stacking them all into
>the To: field of one email......
>
>Look out folks. We're likely to soon get another clever solution from the
>headlemur. Something like, "Turn OFF your computer. Unplug it from the wall.
>Place it carefully in the back corner of your closet. You are now FULLY
>protected from any and all potentially destructive software exploits.
>
>FACTS folks - like experiences 
>
and yours would be.........?

>- not headline conjecture is going to help
>Tom solve his conundrum.
>
</rant>

So....disabling the messenging service will or won't help Tom? FYI the 
messenging service vulnerability is (a) widely known and (b) widely 
exploited and so MAY infact prove to be a factor in Tom's problem.

And where would your helpful suggestions be? Or is aimless sarcasm more 
"professional" and helpful?




-- 
 ------------------------------
	Paul Bennett						
	Internet Developer				
	Teltest Electronic Design		
 ------------------------------			
Email: paul at teltest.com				
Phone: 64 4 237 4557					
Web: http://www.teltest.com		
Wap: http://wap.teltest.com			



From adaw at myrealbox.com  Sun Nov  9 20:14:21 2003
From: adaw at myrealbox.com (Adam George)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:14:21 +0800
Subject: [thelist] IE Update - A Golden Opportunity?
Message-ID: <044201c3a730$5adcbb70$250a000a@crossroadsint.org>

With the new update to IE announced recently
(<http://msdn.microsoft.com/ieupdate/>), does anyone think Microsoft will
take this opportunity to improve IE's CSS support, and/or fix the bugs, or
will we have to endure the long wait for Longhorn?

----
Adam George
www.globalhand.org
www.crossroads.org.hk






From madstone at madstone.net  Sun Nov  9 20:14:32 2003
From: madstone at madstone.net (Jorah Lavin)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 21:14:32 -0500
Subject: Fear-mongering was [thelist] odd IE worm or something..
References: 	<20031109223445.12514.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com><000701c3a71a$e271c140$0d6237d2@oemcomputer><018501c3a71e$6e7625c0$d43752a6@jorah>
	<000d01c3a72b$d4e6be70$6401a8c0@yoda>
Message-ID: <023701c3a730$71e29790$d43752a6@jorah>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lonnie" <kr43m0r at earthlink.net>
>  Do we need to be subjected - as if fact - to
> every clueless journalist's headline grabbing tactic?
(snip)
> FACTS folks - like experiences - not headline conjecture is going to help
> Tom solve his conundrum.

Lonnie is right, and I shouldn't have posted about a subject of which I know
nothing. A tip is in order... but my brain isn't working right now, so it
will have to be a delayed one.

Sorry to all... I don't mean to contribute to the FUD.

-Jorah


From ken at adOpenStatic.com  Sun Nov  9 20:18:51 2003
From: ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:18:51 +1100
Subject: Fear-mongering was [thelist] odd IE worm or something..
References: 	<20031109223445.12514.qmail@web12602.mail.yahoo.com><000701c3a71a$e271c140$0d6237d2@oemcomputer><018501c3a71e$6e7625c0$d43752a6@jorah>
	<000d01c3a72b$d4e6be70$6401a8c0@yoda> <3FAEF06D.4020802@teltest.com>
Message-ID: <02be01c3a730$fbc275c0$0a345e81@careersAD.unsw.edu.au>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: "Paul Bennett" <paul at teltest.com>
Subject: Re: Fear-mongering was [thelist] odd IE worm or something..


: >- not headline conjecture is going to help
: >Tom solve his conundrum.
: >
: </rant>
:
: So....disabling the messenging service will or won't
: help Tom? FYI the messenging service vulnerability is
: (a) widely known and (b) widely exploited and so MAY
: infact prove to be a factor in Tom's problem.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi,

a) There is no "messenging service" - it's the "messenger service" (sorry,
that's a nitpick, I know).

b) I'm not sure what you mean by "widely exploited" - is spam an SMTP
exploit? Now, there is an RPC vulnerability that does in fact exploit the
Messenger service, but that's not "widely exploited". [1] If you are talking
about people receiving lots of Messenger "pop-ups", that's not an exploit.

c) The window is an IE window - I supppose any number of tricks could be
used to "hide it" - have it open at some co-ordinates waaaay off the visible
screen, and have some javascript that always returns focus to another (eg
parent window). Task Manager should show it running someplace (eg at least
in "processes", and you can kill it there).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: And where would your helpful suggestions be? Or is aimless
: sarcasm more "professional" and helpful?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's not aimless sarcasm - there's a perfectly valid point being made. If
you don't know what you're talking about, then please leave the thread
alone. It is scary the amount of misinformation that gets posted. And it
begins to make me wonder how well qualified people are to comment on other
issues (eg the stability of Program X, or the "bloatedness of Y", or the
security of "Z".

[To the Original Poster]

d) If you are running Windows XP, go Start -> Run -> msconfig.exe, and check
the "start-up" tab for possible programs that may be run at Start up without
your permission (to test to see if it's automatically starting up, don't
load anything once you've logged on). You can also check the services list
to see if there's anything out of the ordinary there. Otherwise, it may be
helpful to post what you are doing when this behaviour starts.

Lastly, if you think that you've been infected via some kind of remote
exploit, as opposed to installing some malware, (and your AV software etc is
not picking it up), then please reinstall Windows XP, and enable the
Internet Connection Firewall *before* you put this machine onto the 'net.
Then head over to WindowsUpdate (via the link on your start menu), and get
all relevant patches.

There is further useful information on the Microsoft homepage
(www.microsoft.com) - click the link/image that says "Protect your PC in 3
steps".

Cheers
Ken

Microsoft MVP - Windows Server (IIS)

[1]
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/security/bulletin/MS03-043.asp




:
:
:
:
:
: -- 
:  ------------------------------
: Paul Bennett
: Internet Developer
: Teltest Electronic Design
:  ------------------------------ 
: Email: paul at teltest.com
: Phone: 64 4 237 4557
: Web: http://www.teltest.com
: Wap: http://wap.teltest.com
:
:
: -- 
: * * Please support the community that supports you.  * *
: http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
:
: For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester
: and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org
: Workers of the Web, evolt !
:


From skquinn at frogger.kicks-ass.net  Sun Nov  9 20:29:12 2003
From: skquinn at frogger.kicks-ass.net (Shawn K. Quinn)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 20:29:12 -0600
Subject: [thelist] I'm in a givin' mood
In-Reply-To: <3FA964F9.7080200@teltest.com>
References: <3FA964F9.7080200@teltest.com>
Message-ID: <200311092029.12501.skquinn@frogger.kicks-ass.net>

On Wednesday 2003 November 05 15:00, Paul Bennett wrote:
> (This may be standard in other mail clients but I don't know because
> I haven't used them)
>
> Did you know you can drag / copy mail from one mail account to
> another?
>
> Simply select the messages to copy / move and drag or copy them right
> into another accounts folders.

FWIW this is probably pretty universal; I know it to work in KMail. It 
probably works in Outlook and Outlook Express as well but I don't use 
them so can't say for sure.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn

From kr43m0r at earthlink.net  Sun Nov  9 21:13:14 2003
From: kr43m0r at earthlink.net (Lonnie)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 21:13:14 -0600
Subject: [thelist] IE Update - A Golden Opportunity?
References: <044201c3a730$5adcbb70$250a000a@crossroadsint.org>
Message-ID: <009001c3a738$946c5280$6401a8c0@yoda>

> With the new update to IE announced recently
> (<http://msdn.microsoft.com/ieupdate/>), does anyone think Microsoft will
> take this opportunity to improve IE's CSS support, and/or fix the bugs, or
> will we have to endure the long wait for Longhorn?
>
> ----
> Adam George

So sorry! The URL is a misnomer. IE is not being updated. As a matter of
fact, it's being denegraded. This is a response by Microsoft to the lawsuit
lost to Eolas. All it does is cause the browser to conform to the court
findings (as interpreted by Microsoft). This so they won't be forced to
purchase proper licensing.

Frankly, IMO, don't even waste your time to d/l or install this. Its primary
purpose is to inform developers about how their previous code for
automatically playing various media through a browser will be not treated as
it had been formerly.

Nothing new here... move along!



From burgan at iprimus.com.au  Sun Nov  9 21:35:00 2003
From: burgan at iprimus.com.au (Tim Burgan)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:05:00 +1030
Subject: [thelist] IE Update - A Golden Opportunity?
References: <044201c3a730$5adcbb70$250a000a@crossroadsint.org>
Message-ID: <003601c3a73b$9f528400$a70a8aca@timburgan>

Hi Adam,

 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
 : ----- Original Message -----
 : From: "Adam George"
 :
 : With the new update to IE announced recently
 : (<http://msdn.microsoft.com/ieupdate/>), does anyone think
 : Microsoft will take this opportunity to improve IE's CSS
 : support, and/or fix the bugs, or will we have to endure the long
 : wait for Longhorn?
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I was just reading the other day, about how Jeffrey Zeldman, Eric Meyer, and
others approached Microsoft about this very issue - CSS/W3C Standards
improvements.

You can read an intro to this article at Eric Meyer's website [1], or directly
read the article on C|Net [2].

[1] <http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/200310.html#t200310009>
[2] <http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-5088642.html>

I was actually quite angry after I read the article. I just seems like they have
no idea.

I posted this email on the 'CSS Discuss' mailing list [3] that is moderated by
Eric Meyer a few weeks ago. He directly commented by replying this: "Microsoft
may be about to crush the Web, or lead it into a glorious new golden era".

[3] <http://www.css-discuss.org>

Read the above articles
Hope this helps

Tim Burgan








From ken at adOpenStatic.com  Sun Nov  9 21:33:47 2003
From: ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:33:47 +1100
Subject: [thelist] IE Update - A Golden Opportunity?
References: <044201c3a730$5adcbb70$250a000a@crossroadsint.org>
	<009001c3a738$946c5280$6401a8c0@yoda>
Message-ID: <041c01c3a73b$736a20f0$0a345e81@careersAD.unsw.edu.au>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: "Lonnie" <kr43m0r at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [thelist] IE Update - A Golden Opportunity?


: > With the new update to IE announced recently
: > (<http://msdn.microsoft.com/ieupdate/>), does anyone
: > think Microsoft will take this opportunity to improve IE's
: > CSS support, and/or fix the bugs, or will we have to
: > endure the long wait for Longhorn?
: >
: > ----
: > Adam George
:
: So sorry! The URL is a misnomer. IE is not being
: updated. As a matter of fact, it's being denegraded.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Denigrated? Deprecated?

In any case, the IE team is soliciting feedback on bug fixes and new
features to include with IE. Be involved in the IE community, and you should
get opportunities to submit your requests/suggestions.

Cheers
Ken


From ken at adOpenStatic.com  Sun Nov  9 21:41:44 2003
From: ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:41:44 +1100
Subject: [thelist] IE Update - A Golden Opportunity?
References: <044201c3a730$5adcbb70$250a000a@crossroadsint.org>
	<003601c3a73b$9f528400$a70a8aca@timburgan>
Message-ID: <044101c3a73c$8f96b1c0$0a345e81@careersAD.unsw.edu.au>

Where, in either of those two articles, does it say that anyone approached
Microsoft about these issues? Maybe I'm tired, but I don't see anything
there...

Additionally, whilst web-designers like to complain that "Microsoft doesn't
get it" - you need to understand that web-designers are a tiny minority of
IE's user-base. There are lots of competing priorities, and limited
resources. If you want to make Microsoft see that these things are
important, then you need to speak out in the places that Microsoft is
listening in.

Cheers
Ken


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: "Tim Burgan" <burgan at iprimus.com.au>
Subject: Re: [thelist] IE Update - A Golden Opportunity?


: Hi Adam,
:
:  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
:  : ----- Original Message -----
:  : From: "Adam George"
:  :
:  : With the new update to IE announced recently
:  : (<http://msdn.microsoft.com/ieupdate/>), does anyone think
:  : Microsoft will take this opportunity to improve IE's CSS
:  : support, and/or fix the bugs, or will we have to endure the long
:  : wait for Longhorn?
:  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
:
: I was just reading the other day, about how Jeffrey Zeldman, Eric Meyer,
and
: others approached Microsoft about this very issue - CSS/W3C Standards
: improvements.
:
: You can read an intro to this article at Eric Meyer's website [1], or
directly
: read the article on C|Net [2].
:
: [1] <http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/200310.html#t200310009>
: [2] <http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-5088642.html>
:
: I was actually quite angry after I read the article. I just seems like
they have
: no idea.
:
: I posted this email on the 'CSS Discuss' mailing list [3] that is
moderated by
: Eric Meyer a few weeks ago. He directly commented by replying this:
"Microsoft
: may be about to crush the Web, or lead it into a glorious new golden era".
:
: [3] <http://www.css-discuss.org>
:
: Read the above articles
: Hope this helps
:
: Tim Burgan


From mpember at phreaker.net  Sun Nov  9 21:55:53 2003
From: mpember at phreaker.net (Michael Pemberton)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:55:53 +1100
Subject: [thelist] odd IE worm or something..
Message-ID: <ho4ax5.ax7@mail.int.mpember.net.au>

Tom Dell'Aringa <pixelmech at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi folks,
> 
> I have a strange thing happening with my IE on winXP. I've run
> ad-aware and a full virus scan which has turned up nothing.
> 
> You can see a screen shot here:
> 
> http://www.pixelmech.com/review/ieThing.gif
> 
> What happens is that a IE window spawns of *its own accord.* When it
> happens, I don't know, but in this case nothing was running. I come
> back and there it is. You cannot navigate to the window at all, there
> is no window per se. The window title seems to be the "==" part. I
> can easily alt-F4 and close it or close it in the task window.
> 
> It does NOT show up when you alt-tab through open apps. 
> 
> Anyone have an idea how I can find out/remove this?
> 
> Tom
> 
> =====
> http://www.pixelmech.com/ :: Web Development Services
> http://www.DMXzone.com/ :: JavaScript Author / Every Friday!
> http://www.thywordistruth.net/ :: Eternal Life
> 
> "I'll ho ho and ha ha you!" (Daffy Duck)

This is a "virus".  It opens a connection to an outside server and acts as a
gateway to allow these popups to be generated at will.

I have seen this on my brother's PC.  The reason I know that it is not RPC /
Messenger related is because the PC is behind a NAT firewall.  This means that
there is no external method of sending a message via these services.

<tip subject="Startup Control Panel" author="Michael Pemberton">
Sick of having all those pesky programs loading on bootup?
Get a program called Startup Control Panel.

http://www.mlin.net/StartupCPL.shtml

This will allow you to select which programs you want to keep and which can be
disabled.

This is one know problem, disabling may not be enough.  Programs, such as Real
Player, put themselves back if they find you have disabled the entry.  The
only way to stop this kind of activity is to keep the entry and simple modify
it.  Simple adding "get lost" to the start of the command line being executed
for the entry should be enough.

When windows is unable to find the program "get", it simple keeps on going
without executing the command.  Real Player thinks you left it there and
doesn't force itself back into the startup.
</tip>

I can't remember the exact file name, but from memory it stuck out because it
was putting the executable in the windows / winnt folder.
---
Michael Pemberton
evolt at mpember.net.au




From burgan at iprimus.com.au  Sun Nov  9 22:19:50 2003
From: burgan at iprimus.com.au (Tim Burgan)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:49:50 +1030
Subject: [thelist] IE Update - A Golden Opportunity?
References: 	<044201c3a730$5adcbb70$250a000a@crossroadsint.org><003601c3a73b$9f528400$a70a8aca@timburgan>
	<044101c3a73c$8f96b1c0$0a345e81@careersAD.unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <006001c3a741$e2a3bc00$a70a8aca@timburgan>

Hi,

I assure you that the people mentioned in the articles have met with Microsoft
on numerous occations and I believe some are even on committies with Microsoft.

I understand that web designers are a small minority of IE users, but their
announcement to not implement further standards at the moment is going to have a
very large effect on users also.

If anyone doesn't know the men in the articles, here is a little history behind
two of them.

Jeffery Zeldman is a Web Standards guru and evangelist. He has recently authored
'Designing With Web Standards" [1], the founder of WaSP - 'Web Standards
Project" [2], and is the founder and contributor the the 'A List Apart' online
magazine [3].

[1] <http://www.zeldman.com/dwws/>
[2] <http://www.webstandards.org>
[3] <http://www.alistapart.com>

Eric A. Meyer has been working with the Web since late 1993 and is an
internationally recognized expert on the subjects of HTML and Cascading Style
Sheets (CSS). Eric coordinated the authoring and creation of the W3C's CSS Test
Suite [4] and has recently been acting as List Chaperone of the highly active
css-discuss mailing list [5]. Author of "Eric Meyer on CSS" [6], "Cascading
Style Sheets: The Definitive Guide" [7], "CSS2.0 Programmer's Reference" [8],
and the fairly well-known 'CSS Browser Compatibility Charts' [9]. Eric speaks at
a variety of conferences on the subject of standards, CSS use, and Web design.

[4] <http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/current/>
[5] <http://www.css-discuss.org/>
[6] <http://www.ericmeyeroncss.com/>
[7] <http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/books/css-tdg/>
[8] <http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/books/css-progref/>
[9] <http://devedge.netscape.com/library/xref/2003/css-support/>


Tim








From kr43m0r at earthlink.net  Sun Nov  9 22:25:52 2003
From: kr43m0r at earthlink.net (Lonnie)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 22:25:52 -0600
Subject: [thelist] IE Update - A Golden Opportunity?
References: 	<044201c3a730$5adcbb70$250a000a@crossroadsint.org><009001c3a738$946c5280$6401a8c0@yoda>
	<041c01c3a73b$736a20f0$0a345e81@careersAD.unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <00e201c3a742$ba162740$6401a8c0@yoda>

> : updated. As a matter of fact, it's being denegraded.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Denigrated? Deprecated?

How about degraded?

Dang it y'all. Sometimes I ain't got dem words real good. I's from Texas and
never did got proper book lernt. Dagnabbit, I bied one of dem fancy big word
books and plopped it down right cheer next to my compute machine. A teacher
done told me I shuold luuk in that thar book ifin I have a spellit qeustion.
Ha ha!

So, Ken, how *do* we get involved in that IE team bug/feedback machine?

TTFN,
Lonnie



From kr43m0r at earthlink.net  Sun Nov  9 22:55:37 2003
From: kr43m0r at earthlink.net (Lonnie)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 22:55:37 -0600
Subject: [thelist] IE Update - A Golden Opportunity?
References: 	<044201c3a730$5adcbb70$250a000a@crossroadsint.org><003601c3a73b$9f528400$a70a8aca@timburgan><044101c3a73c$8f96b1c0$0a345e81@careersAD.unsw.edu.au>
	<006001c3a741$e2a3bc00$a70a8aca@timburgan>
Message-ID: <012201c3a746$e1cc0760$6401a8c0@yoda>

From: "Tim Burgan" <burgan at iprimus.com.au>

> Hi,
>
> I assure you that the people mentioned in the articles have met with
Microsoft
> on numerous occations and I believe some are even on committies with
Microsoft.
>
> I understand that web designers are a small minority of IE users, but
their
> announcement to not implement further standards at the moment is going to
have a
> very large effect on users also.
>
> If anyone doesn't know the men in the articles, here is a little history
behind
> two of them.

The only article mentioned in this thread was:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/ieupdate/

Would you care to help us see where Jeff or Eric are mentioned therein?



From burgan at iprimus.com.au  Sun Nov  9 23:13:39 2003
From: burgan at iprimus.com.au (Tim Burgan)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:43:39 +1030
Subject: [thelist] IE Update - A Golden Opportunity?
References: 	<044201c3a730$5adcbb70$250a000a@crossroadsint.org><003601c3a73b$9f528400$a70a8aca@timburgan><044101c3a73c$8f96b1c0$0a345e81@careersAD.unsw.edu.au>
	<006001c3a741$e2a3bc00$a70a8aca@timburgan>
	<05d101c3a746$6779ca10$0a345e81@careersAD.unsw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <001701c3a749$677b7060$493032d2@timburgan>

I have read it somewhere (obviously elsewhere) on the same day I read these two
articles. I though it actually say they approached Microsoft in the opening
paragraph, but I guess not.



From kr43m0r at earthlink.net  Sun Nov  9 23:16:01 2003
From: kr43m0r at earthlink.net (Lonnie)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:16:01 -0600
Subject: [thelist] odd IE worm or something..
References: <ho4ax5.ax7@mail.int.mpember.net.au>
Message-ID: <013601c3a749$bba0bab0$6401a8c0@yoda>

> > I have a strange thing happening with my IE on winXP. I've run
> > ad-aware and a full virus scan which has turned up nothing.

> This is a "virus".  It opens a connection to an outside server and acts as
a
> gateway to allow these popups to be generated at will.
>
> I have seen this on my brother's PC.  The reason I know that it is not RPC
/
> Messenger related is because the PC is behind a NAT firewall.  This means
that
> there is no external method of sending a message via these services.

Michael,

If you *know* this is a virus. And you know what it does and how it
manifests. And you've seen it before on your brother's PC. Then WHAT IS IT?
How is it that you know, but the major anti-virus folks don't? What did your
brother do to get rid of it? If his PC is behind a tight firewall, how did
this virus infect him?

I'll bet many on this list will forego your tip for a bit more information
on what you profess to know about this alleged virus and how it relates to
Tom's problem.