with the id "#content". That didn't work. I colored each of the "#main" and "#sidebar"

s, and that *did* work, though it leaves a gulf of the screen with the background color coming through. To experiment, then, I then styled the

children of the ".post" class with another background color, and that worked also. So, that leaves me with the question: why won't the "#container"

take a background color? I thought that it might have to do with the fact that the "#container"

didn't have any content of its own, but was a wrapper for the other two primary content

s. So, I dropped a test paragraph before the "#main"

and after the "#sidebar"

. The "#content"

now takes a background color, but only as far down the screen as the "#sidebar"

goes. I tried to throw another test paragraph sequentially after the "#main"

but before the "#sidebar"

, thinking that it would follow the longer content of the "#main" References: <20050218210404.72267.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10c3e4e00502181346178dcd32@mail.gmail.com> There is no "#container" div on the page that you used as a sample to show us. On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:04:03 -0800 (PST), Daniel LeVangie-Stricklen wrote: > Hi there, > > Can someone take a look at Douglas Bowman's Blogger > template Minima at > > http://www.blogger.com/templates/minima/sample.html > > and help me figure out something about how the DIVs > are working? > > Specifically, I'm using this basic structure for my > blog, and I've decided that I wanted to style the > background separately from that of the > contents. So, I colored the body, and colored the >

with the id "#content". That didn't work. I > colored each of the "#main" and "#sidebar"

s, and > that *did* work, though it leaves a gulf of the screen > with the background color coming through. To > experiment, then, I then styled the

children of > the ".post" class with another background color, and > that worked also. > > So, that leaves me with the question: why won't the > "#container"

take a background color? > > I thought that it might have to do with the fact that > the "#container"

didn't have any content of its > own, but was a wrapper for the other two primary > content

s. So, I dropped a test paragraph before > the "#main"

and after the "#sidebar"

. The > "#content"

now takes a background color, but > only as far down the screen as the "#sidebar"

> goes. I tried to throw another test paragraph > sequentially after the "#main"

but before the > "#sidebar"

, thinking that it would follow the > longer content of the "#main" work. > > I have a hunch that this is what all those tutorials > I've skimmed about the multi-column layout have been > about, and so I'll be hunting them down again. But > just on the offchance that there's something goofy > going on with Firefox or the ordering of some code, I > thought I'd go ahead and toss in this question. > > Thanks, > > Daniel > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo > -- > > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! > From Kyle at JustBreathe.co.uk Fri Feb 18 16:57:29 2005 From: Kyle at JustBreathe.co.uk (Kyle @ JustBreathe) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 22:57:29 -0000 Subject: [thelist] Parent DIV won't take background color In-Reply-To: <20050218210404.72267.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Daniel, >From the start of your mail it sounds as though you want to set the background colour of the body tag and the rest of your mail is alternative strategies when that didn't work ... am I right? If my assumption is right then your problem is in the style for the body element; you currently have the line background:#fff; but you need to have background:#ffffff; This will then work in Firefox and IE (and probably any other browser). It's curious really that the short form seems to be acceptable for 'color' but not for background-color. Kyle Kyle Summers Just Breathe http://www.JustBreathe.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Daniel LeVangie-Stricklen Sent: 18 February 2005 21:04 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Parent DIV won't take background color Hi there, Can someone take a look at Douglas Bowman's Blogger template Minima at http://www.blogger.com/templates/minima/sample.html and help me figure out something about how the DIVs are working? Specifically, I'm using this basic structure for my blog, and I've decided that I wanted to style the background separately from that of the contents. So, I colored the body, and colored the

with the id "#content". That didn't work. I colored each of the "#main" and "#sidebar"

s, and that *did* work, though it leaves a gulf of the screen with the background color coming through. To experiment, then, I then styled the

children of the ".post" class with another background color, and that worked also. So, that leaves me with the question: why won't the "#container"

take a background color? I thought that it might have to do with the fact that the "#container"

didn't have any content of its own, but was a wrapper for the other two primary content

s. So, I dropped a test paragraph before the "#main"

and after the "#sidebar"

. The "#content"

now takes a background color, but only as far down the screen as the "#sidebar"

goes. I tried to throw another test paragraph sequentially after the "#main"

but before the "#sidebar"

, thinking that it would follow the longer content of the "#main" References: <20050218210404.72267.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <421676F9.40602@neptunewebworks.com> Daniel LeVangie-Stricklen wrote: > So, that leaves me with the question: why won't the > "#container"

take a background color? Do you have a URL for the page you're working on? Anyway, in that template, #content only contains two other divs, #main and #sidebar. #main (the main content column) and #sidebar (the side nav, etc) are both floated, so #content effectively has height: 0; But a big fat border on #content and you'll see it, at the top of the page. The simplest way to make #content extend to the height of #main/#sidebar (whichever is longer) is add a clearing div to your markup:

.clearing { clear: both; } Some will skewer me for the suggestion since it's really just presentational markup. Perhaps you can bypass that complain by putting a copyright notice in that clearing div. :) -- Maximillian Von Schwanekamp http://www.neptunewebworks.com/ From Kyle at JustBreathe.co.uk Fri Feb 18 17:41:10 2005 From: Kyle at JustBreathe.co.uk (Kyle @ JustBreathe) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 23:41:10 -0000 Subject: [thelist] Help with site layout: Makovision.com In-Reply-To: <1108673044.32763@mx247.mysite4now.com> Message-ID: There is definitely something strange going on with the page height calculation in IE. The problem seems to be related to the fact that #leftcontent is both the longest of the two panels and it is a float. There are three solutions to this that seem to cure the problem ... 1) make #rightcontent float instead of #leftcontent ... this will require changes to the html to make it work 2) make #rightcontent float:right whilst #leftcontent float:left 3) set overflow:visible for #leftcontent I have managed to get option three to fail, but option 2 seems to be quite solid, it seems to have worked everytime so far ... over to you :) I have tried all of the above with your problem configuration ... IE6 on XP all service packed up. Kyle Kyle Summers Just Breathe http://www.JustBreathe.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Don Makoviney Sent: 17 February 2005 20:44 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Help with site layout: Makovision.com I am having a problem I had last month. . .where the page seems to be stopping halfway down the page. http://www.makovision.com/ In this case the site stops at the Sitemeter Javascript code at the very bottom right of the page. But it only stops sometimes. . .and works fine in Firefox. But in IE it stops. So. . . . . (a) is it loading for you? And (b) if it is/isn't, what browser are you using? And (c) If it is not loading correctly, any ideas why? I am at my wits end. If you noticed I put it just outside the last

. I have tried putting it inside and outside the

region and it still is the same way. Thanks in advance, Don Makoviney Makovision - Handpicked News For Internet Developers www.makovision.com Free Usability/Web Dev Newsletter www.makovision.com/web-dev-newsletter/ -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From evoltlist at delime.com Fri Feb 18 18:57:32 2005 From: evoltlist at delime.com (M. Seyon) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:57:32 -0400 Subject: short-hand color in background-color (was RE: [thelist] Parent DIV won't take background color) In-Reply-To: References: <20050218210404.72267.qmail@web50303.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20050218205646.01be1f10@mx.delime.com> Message from Kyle @ JustBreathe (2/18/2005 06:57 PM) >If my assumption is right then your problem is in the style for the body >element; you currently have the line > background:#fff; >but you need to have > background:#ffffff; >This will then work in Firefox and IE (and probably any other browser). >It's curious really that the short form seems to be acceptable for 'color' >but not for background-color. I've never seen this problem before. Can you elaborate? Thanks. -marc -- Trinidad Carnival in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com http://www.playyuhself.com/ From Ken at adOpenStatic.com Fri Feb 18 19:59:53 2005 From: Ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:59:53 +1100 Subject: SPAM-LOW: RE: [thelist] Internet Explorer 7 Message-ID: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF1E8@kjserver1.kjhome.local> : -----Original Message----- : From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist- : bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Justin @ pxLabs : Subject: Re: SPAM-LOW: RE: [thelist] Internet Explorer 7 : : >a) Web developers aren't the primary users of IE - end users are : : Interesting viewpoint, Ken. : : I tend to think that Web standards is just as important, if not more so : than security. That's an odd thing to say. In another post you can't wait to move over to Mandrake so as not to worry about "...viruses, spyware, and all that jazz". If aesthetics and standards compliance were so important, that would factor into your platform equation as well. But what I detect is a desire to lash out at Microsoft. If the product is insecure then bash them for making "insecure" products. If they are working on security, then complain about something else. In the final analysis though, you probably don't make Microsoft any money. And Microsoft is a business trying to make a profit for its shareholders. When customers who do make money for Microsoft say "we want security", then that's what MS will concentrate on. : >I'm pretty sure I can't think of anyone who chooses their bank by : >the UI of the online interface. : : I did. In fact, I choose to do business with companies who's sites look : good. Call me what you want, but why should I do business with a company : who can't look after their website? Imagine if their website was poorly : made. That, in itself, is a reflection of their business, their : attitudes, and often, is a direct reflection of how they treat their : customers. a) Why do you think you're a typical consumer? b) There are many ways that companies can compete in the marketplace. Do you think Aldi, Ikea or RyanAir became successful because they delivered the same type of "service" or have the same attitude towards their customers that Louis Vuitton or Porsche have? Obviously not. Some companies compete on aesthetics, some on technological brilliance, some on price, and others on other factors (or combination of such factors). There is no single "right" way of doing so, and trying to say that a bank will *inevietably* lose market share because their UI looks rubbish is engaging in a logical fallacy (the bank might be catering to people who care about other things), and to suggest that your choice is somehow statistically significant proof of that fact is further digging yourself into a hole. And if you look at large banks - the Citibanks of the world, do you honestly think that a few consumers changing to another bank because the UI looks better, or is more "standards" compliant is going to affect their revenue or profit (or whatever measure you wish to use) one iota? I think not. Hence the contention that there are far more *important* factors that people, corporations, fund managers etc use in determining which bank or financial institution they will go with: products, location, customer service, returns, reputation, size, previous history and so forth. : Are we (the developers) going to sit around and wait for MS to get their : act together and release a stable, secure, standards compliant product, or : are we going to say "Cuff off, Microsoft!" and start using something : better? Well, lots of designers already use Firefox. I'm not a designer and I use Firefox most of the time. There's no reason you have to use IE (or even Firefox for that matter). : At some point, folks, we have to draw the line and say enough is enough. : Until that happens, we are going to simply be like the fellas in Apple's : 1984 ad; clones and slaves of a billion-dollar organization holding the : entire web development community hostage at the whim of a madman who would : rather release a browser based on nothing more than security updates. A : foolish move, and one which will further degrade the loyalty that their : remaining customers have for them. Woah, let's adjust our tin-foil-hats a little here. There are still plenty of customers using Microsoft products, and a lot of them don't feel they are clones or slaves to some madman in Redmond. They make their choices based on ROI (or so on). I can't speak for every customer in the world, but the company I work for has doubled in size every year for the past 4 years (and we're on track to double to 6,000 employees this year), and we only do MS enterprise infrastructure design/deployment (and app development). So there are plenty of people out there continuing to use/invest in MS products, despite the alternatives. I'm not saying that MS products are right in every circumstance. You need to use whatever's right for you (for example, I use Firefox as my main browser, and I use VMWare as my main emulation environment). But I think your viewpoint of how the world views Microsoft is seriously skewed - it really doesn't seem to accord with what I, and others I know, are seeing... Cheers Ken From dianesoini at earthlink.net Fri Feb 18 20:11:30 2005 From: dianesoini at earthlink.net (Diane Soini) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 18:11:30 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Re: differences in javascript regexp among browsers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91F0A2D4-821B-11D9-AE44-00039358CB42@earthlink.net> On Friday, February 18, 2005, at 04:06 AM, thelist-request at lists.evolt.org wrote: > > On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 20:22:41 -0800, Diane Soini > wrote: >> Well, what I have been doing is pretty simple stuff. Just split on a >> simple pattern, or match a relatively simple pattern. But the array >> returned is of different lengths in different browsers. > > Do you have some examples? > A real simple example, which doesn't have to be done with regexp: URL.split(/javascript:/); In Firefox: [,"popup('foo.html')"] In IE6: ["popup('foo.html')"] Will I always get a null value for the first array item in FF using String.split(regexp)? In a more complicated example (which I don't have in front of me) var pattern = /(support).+\/ (collections|concepts|mfgx|public|qbits|services|solution_center|support )(\/[^\/]+)(\/[^\/]+)*/; I am trying to see if the URL is in one of those folders (collections...) then what is the next folder, and if there is one or more folders below that, then that/those, too. In the end, I will process these three results to show a report: Category Sub-category Sub-sub category (optional) + document title Using URL.exec(pattern) the results were too variable among browsers for me to capture the second, third, and last bit in the parens. So I think I'm using URL.match(pattern) instead. That may also be problematic, too. I just don't have much faith in regexp for this now. So, what would be a better approach? There are not consistent levels of folders. I suppose I could just split on the '/' and write tons and tons of if-else statments...but that just seems so ugly and hard to maintain. From email at timburgan.com Fri Feb 18 22:37:11 2005 From: email at timburgan.com (Tim Burgan) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 15:07:11 +1030 Subject: [thelist] Transparent popups Message-ID: <4216C277.7010909@timburgan.com> Hello, Note: I don't want to get in a war about popups! How does this site (http://www.instantattention.com/) create the popups that they do? The transparency looks awesome.. but that requires PNG use.. which isn't supported in IE, but somehow these popups DO work! How can I create something like this myself? Tim From peter at easylistbox.com Fri Feb 18 22:56:17 2005 From: peter at easylistbox.com (Peter Brunone (EasyListBox.com)) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 22:56:17 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Transparent popups In-Reply-To: <4216C277.7010909@timburgan.com> Message-ID: <003801c5163f$5946f3a0$0500a8c0@monkeyhouse> Wow, another sleazy-looking "marketing" outfit (note that this is just my opinion which, as such, does not seem out of place here in light of recent events). There are many ways you can do this, e.g. Flash, iframes, or HTML elements like DIV or SPAN tags that come and go based on a little bit of scripting. PNG format IS supported in IE; they just don't give you the option of partial transparency. Besides, transparent GIFs have been around for ages. FWIW... Peter -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org On Behalf Of Tim Burgan Hello, Note: I don't want to get in a war about popups! How does this site (http://www.instantattention.com/) create the popups that they do? The transparency looks awesome.. but that requires PNG use.. which isn't supported in IE, but somehow these popups DO work! How can I create something like this myself? Tim From virexmachina at gmail.com Fri Feb 18 23:12:34 2005 From: virexmachina at gmail.com (Adrian Gonzales) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 23:12:34 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Transparent popups In-Reply-To: <003801c5163f$5946f3a0$0500a8c0@monkeyhouse> References: <4216C277.7010909@timburgan.com> <003801c5163f$5946f3a0$0500a8c0@monkeyhouse> Message-ID: <338a77a205021821126bd77704@mail.gmail.com> Ok, so a little more helpful info: This is done with PNGs. IE does support alpha transparency for PNGs, its just really really screwy. Read this: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bobosola/ That should help you. They give background info as well as a great script to automatically make PNGs transparent in IE without the hassle. If you want even more info: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/pngopacity/ Hope that helps. Adrian Gonzales http://www.virexmachina.com/ From fuzzylizard at gmail.com Sat Feb 19 00:07:23 2005 From: fuzzylizard at gmail.com (Chris Johnston) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 01:07:23 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Help with css layout / IE issue In-Reply-To: <421301FB.1090300@neptunewebworks.com> References: <421301FB.1090300@neptunewebworks.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:19:07 -0800, Maximillian Schwanekamp wrote: > > Your site in Win IE 5.5 is need of attention, btw. Setting body { > text-align: center; } for IE only would be a start. cf css-d for hackery: > http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssHack > Okay, I have fixed the site in IE 5.5 thanks to the links to the stand alone IE browsers and the link to the css-d hack page. However, I am still having problems with IE 5.0x that I just can't seem to solve. In addition, I have been able to check the site on the following and it appears to work: Windows: Firefox 1.0, IE 6, IE 5.5, Opera 7.54 Linux: Firefox 1.0, Konquerer (whichever version comes with KDE 3.2) Could some kind sole please check the site in Safari and let me know how it looks? -- chris johnston www.fuzzylizard.com "For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals and something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination, we learned to talk." Pink Floyd From lists at neptunewebworks.com Sat Feb 19 01:25:16 2005 From: lists at neptunewebworks.com (Maximillian Schwanekamp) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 23:25:16 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Help with css layout / IE issue In-Reply-To: References: <421301FB.1090300@neptunewebworks.com> Message-ID: <4216E9DC.6070803@neptunewebworks.com> Chris Johnston wrote: > Okay, I have fixed the site in IE 5.5 thanks to the links to the stand > alone IE browsers and the link to the css-d hack page. However, I am > still having problems with IE 5.0x that I just can't seem to solve. Your .sidebar is too wide. Try setting an explicit width on it; Maximum 210px worked in a quick test for me on IE 5.01. Also since you have padding: 5px 20px 5px 30px on .sideSection, the div.sideSection with the Get Firefox image is forcing the column to be 230px wide. Either use a smaller Get FF img, or reduce the padding. I vote the latter. > Could some kind sole please check the site in Safari and let me know > how it looks? Looks good to me! No problems at all... OS X 10.2.3, Safari 1.0.3. -- Maximillian Von Schwanekamp http://www.neptunewebworks.com/ From evolt at muinar.com Sat Feb 19 02:22:41 2005 From: evolt at muinar.com (Mike) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 09:22:41 +0100 Subject: SPAM-LOW: RE: [thelist] Internet Explorer 7 In-Reply-To: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF1E8@kjserver1.kjhome.lo cal> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20050219091345.0215e668@mail.muinar.com> At 12:59 19.02.2005 +1100, you wrote: >In the final analysis though, you probably don't make Microsoft any money. >And Microsoft is a business trying to make a profit for its shareholders. >When customers who do make money for Microsoft say "we want security", then >that's what MS will concentrate on. Ken You don't need to explain us how business works ;) They're damaging the web, when they don't respect the standards. It's in _our_interest_ that the web is still there in five or ten years. (Whether Microsoft is still there, does matter to you, but not to most of us, even not to their short-term sighted shareholders.) Cheers Mike _____ mike s. krischker http://webdesign-schweiz.ch/ webpro mailing list http://webdesign-list.com/ flashpro mailing list http://flash-list.com/ From Kyle at JustBreathe.co.uk Sat Feb 19 05:23:47 2005 From: Kyle at JustBreathe.co.uk (Kyle @ JustBreathe) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 11:23:47 -0000 Subject: short-hand color in background-color (was RE: [thelist] Parent DIV won't take background color) In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20050218205646.01be1f10@mx.delime.com> Message-ID: Yup - I can elaborate ... it was too late in the day to be thinking about this stuff. I don't know what was going on last night with the short forms but it is not happening today. Maximillian had it right with the floating divs. Kyle Kyle Summers Just Breathe http://www.JustBreathe.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of M. Seyon Sent: 19 February 2005 00:58 To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: short-hand color in background-color (was RE: [thelist] Parent DIV won't take background color) Message from Kyle @ JustBreathe (2/18/2005 06:57 PM) >If my assumption is right then your problem is in the style for the body >element; you currently have the line > background:#fff; >but you need to have > background:#ffffff; >This will then work in Firefox and IE (and probably any other browser). >It's curious really that the short form seems to be acceptable for 'color' >but not for background-color. I've never seen this problem before. Can you elaborate? Thanks. -marc -- Trinidad Carnival in all its photographic glory. Playyuhself.com http://www.playyuhself.com/ -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From Ken at adOpenStatic.com Sat Feb 19 05:31:13 2005 From: Ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 22:31:13 +1100 Subject: SPAM-LOW: RE: [thelist] Internet Explorer 7 Message-ID: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF1EE@kjserver1.kjhome.local> : -----Original Message----- : From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist- : bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Mike : Subject: RE: SPAM-LOW: RE: [thelist] Internet Explorer 7 : : At 12:59 19.02.2005 +1100, you wrote: : >In the final analysis though, you probably don't make Microsoft any : money. : >And Microsoft is a business trying to make a profit for its shareholders. : >When customers who do make money for Microsoft say "we want security", : >then that's what MS will concentrate on. : : Ken : : You don't need to explain us how business works ;) They're damaging the : web, when they don't respect the standards. I can definitely see your point of view here, and I don't dispute it. My point was about where Microsoft was directing its resources. Significant numbers of its customers are calling for improved security. To complain that responding to this call is misguided would be na?ve - Microsoft isn't improving security just for the fun of it - there is some pressure out there to do exactly what it's doing. : It's in _our_interest_ that the web is : still there in five or ten years. I'm sure the web will still be there in 5-10 years. It's survived the last 10 years of competing standards, and I'm sure it'll survive the next 10. Furthermore, I've already said that I'm expecting much better standards support in the IE that comes with Longhorn. And we're not going to have to wait 10 years for that. Microsoft's actively contributing to the development of W3C standards these days, and I would expect that they would be implemented in an upcoming MS browser. The problem at the moment is what to do with the existing Trident rendering engine - the one that's been around for ages. It does have a strict -vs- quirks mode, and that's probably the best that can be hoped for. : (Whether Microsoft is still there, does matter to you, but not to most of : us, even not to their short-term sighted shareholders.) I'm not sure what you're saying here. Why would Microsoft's being around matter more to me than to anyone else in particular? I hope I'm not misinterpreting what you're saying here... Cheers Ken From fuzzylizard at gmail.com Sat Feb 19 08:36:46 2005 From: fuzzylizard at gmail.com (Chris Johnston) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 09:36:46 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Help with css layout / IE issue In-Reply-To: <4216E9DC.6070803@neptunewebworks.com> References: <421301FB.1090300@neptunewebworks.com> <4216E9DC.6070803@neptunewebworks.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 23:25:16 -0800, Maximillian Schwanekamp wrote: > > Your .sidebar is too wide. Try setting an explicit width on it; Maximum > 210px worked in a quick test for me on IE 5.01. Also since you have > padding: 5px 20px 5px 30px on .sideSection, the div.sideSection with the > Get Firefox image is forcing the column to be 230px wide. Either use a > smaller Get FF img, or reduce the padding. I vote the latter. > Thanks for the help. Setting an explicit width for the .sidebar work perfectly. The site now looks the same in IE 5.0x, 5.5 and 6. I can't wait for IE 7 to come out :-P Now to get the site so that it validate as xhtml transititional. However, for this, I know exaclty what it wrong, I just can't seem to solve it and still get the design that I want. Once again, thanks to all that helped me with this, it is appreciated. -- chris johnston www.fuzzylizard.com "For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals and something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination, we learned to talk." Pink Floyd From casey at thecrookstons.com Sat Feb 19 09:59:16 2005 From: casey at thecrookstons.com (Casey Crookston) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 09:59:16 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Quick CSS Question - No Break Message-ID: <009001c5169b$f7414900$6501a8c0@Papabear> Is there a CSS option for "no break"? From lists at j-a-b.net Sat Feb 19 10:32:44 2005 From: lists at j-a-b.net (Jens Brueckmann) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 17:32:44 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Quick CSS Question - No Break In-Reply-To: <009001c5169b$f7414900$6501a8c0@Papabear> References: <009001c5169b$f7414900$6501a8c0@Papabear> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 09:59:16 -0600, Casey Crookston wrote: > Is there a CSS option for "no break"? Presumably, what you are looking for is the CSS property white-space[1], e.g. ELEM { white-space: nowrap; } Cheers, jens [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/text.html#propdef-white-space -- Jens Brueckmann http://www.j-a-b.net/ From mark at testwiz.com Sat Feb 19 10:43:12 2005 From: mark at testwiz.com (Mark Marlow) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 11:43:12 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Transparent popups In-Reply-To: <4216C277.7010909@timburgan.com> Message-ID: <3rra4i$muljor@mxip17a.cluster1.charter.net> It is not a popup, it is DHTML. They are using DHTML to write out HTLM that has an image map with this image (http://www.instantattention.com/attentionGrabber.aspx?cb=632444057131009984 &memberId=39&imageId=0) using I.E. function- DXImageTransform, see (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=DXImageTransform&btnG=Google+Search). The image map defines areas that can be clicked and fire off either local javascript (to close the image), or reference a url (to direct the browser to another website). - Mark -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Tim Burgan Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 11:37 PM To: [thelist] thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Transparent popups Hello, Note: I don't want to get in a war about popups! How does this site (http://www.instantattention.com/) create the popups that they do? The transparency looks awesome.. but that requires PNG use.. which isn't supported in IE, but somehow these popups DO work! How can I create something like this myself? Tim -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From tbrunn at pgmusic.com Sat Feb 19 14:28:41 2005 From: tbrunn at pgmusic.com (Travis) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:28:41 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Searching for a Multilingual Forum References: <3rra4i$muljor@mxip17a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <002a01c516c1$9a070e20$6d0eb5d0@trav> Hi All, I need to set up a forum that can easily switch between languages and which has support for unlimited language templates in the same installation. Does anyone know of a good forum software with support for this? (Note - I have seen some forums where a user can select their language within their user profile preferences - however this is not quite what I'm looking for, since it means the forum will default to a certain language until a user signs up for an account and then specifies otherwise. What I'd really like is the ability to 'switch' the forum into a certain language simply by appending a parameter to the querystring, like ?language=french or, maybe have certain forum topics set to a language, or something like that.) Thanks! From richard.bennett at skynet.be Sat Feb 19 16:01:45 2005 From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:01:45 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Transparent popups In-Reply-To: <4216C277.7010909@timburgan.com> References: <4216C277.7010909@timburgan.com> Message-ID: <200502192301.45576.richard.bennett@skynet.be> On Saturday 19 February 2005 05:37, Tim Burgan wrote: > How does this site (http://www.instantattention.com/) create the popups > that they do? The transparency looks awesome.. but that requires PNG > use.. which isn't supported in IE, but somehow these popups DO work! ...and their claim that they get past all popup blockers is not quite correct. If you want to stop them, rightclick on the shadow, and select "block images from instantattention.com" when using a good webbrowser. Richard. From wayne at freelance-developer.co.uk Sat Feb 19 17:13:35 2005 From: wayne at freelance-developer.co.uk (Wayne) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:13:35 -0000 Subject: [thelist] DOCTYPE DECLARATION HELL... Message-ID: <185F956D2818C24DA8501CBDF63CA67E23E5@inter-server.home.local> Hello List I am making a site for a friend, this is one of the first non-tabular, CSS based websites I have attempted. I normally do back-end application stuff where the W3C has little, direct impact. Can someone explain to me why, when I add the following declaration to my header, the whole layout drops? The good (how I want it) is at: http://justablip.web-demon.co.uk/test.asp The bad (and the ugly) is at: http://justablip.web-demon.co.uk/bad.asp Not tested in anything other than IE6 WinXP Pro. Maybe simple, may be beyond the capabilities of my fragile little mind, maybe I shouldn't be doing this on a saturday night!! Some critique might be nice also... I know I owe a couple of tips too, I'm working on it!! Ta wayne-o -------------------------------------------- w: www.freelance-developer.co.uk e: wayne at freelance-developer.co.uk p: 07786 282 068 -------------------------------------------- FreeExpressionAsRevolution -------------------------------------------- From evolt at muinar.com Sat Feb 19 17:27:42 2005 From: evolt at muinar.com (Mike) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:27:42 +0100 Subject: SPAM-LOW: RE: [thelist] Internet Explorer 7 In-Reply-To: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF1EE@kjserver1.kjhome.lo cal> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20050219235755.0217e980@mail.muinar.com> At 22:31 19.02.2005 +1100, you wrote: >: It's in _our_interest_ that the web is >: still there in five or ten years. > >I'm sure the web will still be there in 5-10 years. It's survived the last 10 >years of competing standards, and I'm sure it'll survive the next 10. What if... ... MS does *not* manage to respond to these security issues. Because the issues are there as long as MS products have a near-monopoly on the web, which is exploited by worms, virii and adware... ... Web users lose interest because they're more and more flooded with 'bad things that come from the web'... ... Companies lose significant numbers of visitors and close their websites... ... Security expenses for companies are growing, until they decide to simply disconnect their employees' computers from the web. Gladly, there are also other possible scenarios :) You could even say, as long as MS doesn't fully respect the standards, their security problem won't be solved. Just another marketing fluff - ? As you said, they're doing it for the shareholders. Or for the shares. Which doesn't automatically include a long-term interest ;) Mike _____ mike s. krischker http://webdesign-schweiz.ch/ webpro mailing list http://webdesign-list.com/ flashpro mailing list http://flash-list.com/ From richard.bennett at skynet.be Sat Feb 19 17:54:55 2005 From: richard.bennett at skynet.be (Richard Bennett) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:54:55 +0100 Subject: [thelist] DOCTYPE DECLARATION HELL... In-Reply-To: <185F956D2818C24DA8501CBDF63CA67E23E5@inter-server.home.local> References: <185F956D2818C24DA8501CBDF63CA67E23E5@inter-server.home.local> Message-ID: <200502200054.55828.richard.bennett@skynet.be> On Sunday 20 February 2005 00:13, Wayne wrote: > Not tested in anything other than IE6 WinXP Pro. If you install firefox you'll see they both look just as bad. Get them working nicely in Firefox, and IE6 will render them ok too mostly, whether or not the doctype triggers it to render in strict or buggy mode. Richard From rharb at earthling.net Sat Feb 19 17:49:45 2005 From: rharb at earthling.net (Richard Harb) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:49:45 +0100 Subject: [thelist] DOCTYPE DECLARATION HELL... In-Reply-To: <185F956D2818C24DA8501CBDF63CA67E23E5@inter-server.home.local> References: <185F956D2818C24DA8501CBDF63CA67E23E5@inter-server.home.local> Message-ID: <138449115.20050220004945@earthling.net> As explained in this page: http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/doctype.html the doctype tells the browser what to expect from the HTML contained in the document and thus how to render it. Without the doctype the browser pretty much assumes that this is a legacy document as opposed to a standards compliant document where the developer knew exactly what he was doing. Mozilla firefox renders the first version (test.asp) in Quirks Mode and the (bad.asp) in Standards Compliant Mode. Though in Firefox both versions would need some adjusting to be presentable. Richard -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005, 12:13:35 AM > Hello List > I am making a site for a friend, this is one of the first non-tabular, CSS > based websites I have attempted. I normally do back-end application stuff > where the W3C has little, direct impact. > Can someone explain to me why, when I add the following declaration to my header, the whole layout drops? > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd"> > The good (how I want it) is at: > http://justablip.web-demon.co.uk/test.asp > The bad (and the ugly) is at: > http://justablip.web-demon.co.uk/bad.asp > Not tested in anything other than IE6 WinXP Pro. > Maybe simple, may be beyond the capabilities of my fragile little mind, > maybe I shouldn't be doing this on a saturday night!! > Some critique might be nice also... > I know I owe a couple of tips too, I'm working on it!! > Ta > wayne-o > -------------------------------------------- > w: www.freelance-developer.co.uk > e: wayne at freelance-developer.co.uk > p: 07786 282 068 > -------------------------------------------- > FreeExpressionAsRevolution > -------------------------------------------- > -- > * * Please support the community that supports you. * * > http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ > For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester > and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org > Workers of the Web, evolt ! From Ken at adOpenStatic.com Sat Feb 19 22:02:01 2005 From: Ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:02:01 +1100 Subject: [thelist] asp.net error: BC30560: 'home_ascx' is ambiguous in the namespace 'ASP'. Message-ID: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF1F8@kjserver1.kjhome.local> Does everything start working if you give the user control an ID? : : : : and then later: : : : : This was working just fine for a very long time. Then I made some simple : text changes to the file at "update/sidebar/homex.ascx", and then I : started : getting this error (below). Why would it just all of a sudden start doing : this? If I change the name of the file to, say homez.ascx and make the : same : change in the register tag, it works again. I don't think there is any : conflict with the file name "home.ascx" as I was using it for days and : days : with no errors. : : Then, to make matters even more weird, the EXACT SAME thing started : happening on the about.aspx page as well. : : : <%@ Register TagPrefix="insert" TagName="sidebar" : Src="update/sidebar/about.ascx" %> : : with this in the body: : : : : Again, if I change the name of the file and the reference in the register, : it works. : : All this would lead me to believe that this is some weird bug in IIS, but : I : am stumped. What gives? : : : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : Description: An error occurred during the compilation of a resource : required to service this request. Please review the following specific : error : details and modify your source code appropriately. : : Compiler Error Message: BC30560: 'home_ascx' is ambiguous in the namespace : 'ASP'. : : Source Error: : : : Line 39: : : : Source File: c:\inetpub\wwwroot\jens2\default.aspx Line: 39 : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : : : : : -- : : * * Please support the community that supports you. * * : http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ : : For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester : and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org : Workers of the Web, evolt ! From JLIST at UNIONINTERACTIVE.COM Sat Feb 19 23:04:37 2005 From: JLIST at UNIONINTERACTIVE.COM (JLIST EMAIL) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:04:37 -0500 Subject: SPAM-LOW: RE: [thelist] Internet Explorer 7 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20050219235755.0217e980@mail.muinar.com> Message-ID: <1108876290.21974@mx64a.mysite4now.com> "the issues are there as long as MS products have a near-monopoly on the web" Microsoft does *not* have a monopoly on the web. Nor do they on the desktop, nor the servers, and so on... What they have is called *market share*, and there IS a difference. One is driven by DELIBERATE LACK OF AVAILABLE CHOICES while the other is driven by continued popularity. No one is holding a gun to our heads, FORCING us to use Microsoft-anything. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head. I don?t recall some large, armed guard ready to cut me down me when I walk to the cash register with Word Perfect instead of MS Word. So -- go ahead and buy Apple, Linux, Sun, whatever else you want. These systems obviously work and they have been proven out there. So, use them. I am so tired of everyone's whining about Microsoft. Its such an old complaint and its generally invoked by those who don?t have ideas good enough to either capitalize on such "monopolies" as they are accused or ride the wave created by them. So, please, stop complaining. Instead, why not turn observations such as: " ... Web users lose interest because they're more and more flooded with 'bad things that come from the web'... ... Companies lose significant numbers of visitors and close their websites... ... Security expenses for companies are growing, until they decide to simply disconnect their employees' computers from the web. " into products, services, or BOTH that help individuals and companies? Instead of pointing out the negative, turn it into a idea! Those three little sentences, above, have given me a handful of ideas that I will endeavor to turn into my own money-making services. So thanks! You know, there is a saying: "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. " (Churchill). I tend to surround myself with the latter. Respectfully. -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 6:28 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: SPAM-LOW: RE: [thelist] Internet Explorer 7 At 22:31 19.02.2005 +1100, you wrote: >: It's in _our_interest_ that the web is >: still there in five or ten years. > >I'm sure the web will still be there in 5-10 years. It's survived the last 10 >years of competing standards, and I'm sure it'll survive the next 10. What if... ... MS does *not* manage to respond to these security issues. Because the issues are there as long as MS products have a near-monopoly on the web, which is exploited by worms, virii and adware... ... Web users lose interest because they're more and more flooded with 'bad things that come from the web'... ... Companies lose significant numbers of visitors and close their websites... ... Security expenses for companies are growing, until they decide to simply disconnect their employees' computers from the web. Gladly, there are also other possible scenarios :) You could even say, as long as MS doesn't fully respect the standards, their security problem won't be solved. Just another marketing fluff - ? As you said, they're doing it for the shareholders. Or for the shares. Which doesn't automatically include a long-term interest ;) Mike _____ mike s. krischker http://webdesign-schweiz.ch/ webpro mailing list http://webdesign-list.com/ flashpro mailing list http://flash-list.com/ -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.857 / Virus Database: 584 - Release Date: 2/10/2005 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.857 / Virus Database: 584 - Release Date: 2/10/2005 From addon at bigpond.net.au Sun Feb 20 00:52:21 2005 From: addon at bigpond.net.au (Adam Pearson) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:52:21 +1000 Subject: [thelist] Re: MS products References: <1108876290.21974@mx64a.mysite4now.com> Message-ID: <00a801c51718$ba034e80$0100a8c0@ADAM> In response to: ----- Original Message ----- From: "JLIST EMAIL" To: Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 3:04 PM Subject: RE: SPAM-LOW: RE: [thelist] Internet Explorer 7 "the issues are there as long as MS products have a near-monopoly on the web" Microsoft does *not* have a monopoly on the web. Nor do they on the desktop, nor the servers, and so on... What they have is called *market share*, and there IS a difference. One is driven by DELIBERATE LACK OF AVAILABLE CHOICES while the other is driven by continued popularity. I am so tired of everyone's whining about Microsoft. Its such an old complaint and its generally invoked by those who don?t have ideas good enough to either capitalize on such "monopolies" as they are accused or ride the wave created by them. So, please, stop complaining. I want to support the last message: I do use Windows XP but that is only laziness when I shopped for my current PC but, out of curiosity, I some time ago explored alternative software and now only use MS software as follows: - Outlook Express for email but only because as my Mozilla Thunderbird developed a fault that I have not yet been able to fix and Internet Explorer, solely for testing web pages. All other software that I use is other-than-Microsoft, for example: - Open-Office.org for word processing and spreadsheet - WordPerfect ditto - The GIMP for image work (MS can't compete here anyway) - Inkscape for illustration (MS can't compete here anyway) along with other non-MS stuff such as: - Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop, GoLive, Audition - Dell music player - Firefox browser - Photofiltre has some very good image utilities - HTML-Kit and so on and so on ... There is a very excellent non-MS world out there if you want it ... Regards From judah at wiredotter.com Sun Feb 20 01:08:17 2005 From: judah at wiredotter.com (Judah McAuley) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:08:17 -0800 Subject: SPAM-LOW: RE: [thelist] Internet Explorer 7 In-Reply-To: <1108876290.21974@mx64a.mysite4now.com> References: <1108876290.21974@mx64a.mysite4now.com> Message-ID: <42183761.9000700@wiredotter.com> JLIST EMAIL wrote: > I am so tired of everyone's whining about Microsoft. Its such an old > complaint and its generally invoked by those who don?t have ideas good > enough to either capitalize on such "monopolies" as they are accused or ride > the wave created by them. So, please, stop complaining. Please...no more "pro microsoft/anti microsoft" emails. No complaining about whiners on either side. Its old, tired and sickening. Microsoft is a monopoly...that is bad. Microsoft is not a fascist enterprise....that is good. They do good things, they do bad things. Good and bad are both relative. They crush competitors, they innovate, they buy out other companies, they endorse some standards, they subvert others, they encourage third parties sometimes just by their existence. Individual actions are good or bad within a certain context and set of assumptions. Keep the debate to that. Companies in and of themselves are neither altruistic nor evil. If you want to rant about attitudes, take it to thechat, or preferably, completely off list. Judah From muraii at yahoo.com Sun Feb 20 13:29:09 2005 From: muraii at yahoo.com (Daniel LeVangie-Stricklen) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:29:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [thelist] Parent

won't take background color Message-ID: <20050220192910.9610.qmail@web50308.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, all, 1. Yeah, I mistakenly type "#container" at odd points throughout my message, rather than "#content". 2. I had a hunch that there was some aspect of the nature of

s that I was missing, and, honestly, I hadn't looked into the spec more than what was covered in the

entry at www.w3schools.com. I might have had my memory about the nature of floated content creating an effective height of 0 for the containing

. Thanks for all who replied. Daniel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From todd at promisingsites.com Sun Feb 20 14:27:37 2005 From: todd at promisingsites.com (Todd Richards) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 14:27:37 -0600 Subject: [thelist] Web server logfile analyzing software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050220203116.XFHY16302.lakermmtao09.cox.net@matrix> I haven't seen any responses to this, and I am also interested. My server is running Win2K3. Todd -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Vlad Alexander (XStandard) Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 10:28 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Web server logfile analyzing software Hi, can someone recommend a Web server logfile analyzing software. I am looking for a product that can analyze logs in batch mode. Thanks, -Vlad http://xstandard.com -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From smiller at callcenters24x7.com Sun Feb 20 15:22:30 2005 From: smiller at callcenters24x7.com (Shane Miller) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:22:30 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Web server logfile analyzing software In-Reply-To: <20050220203116.XFHY16302.lakermmtao09.cox.net@matrix> Message-ID: <67B770C5857C304CB102F35BBCC249D6070ED5@synergy.CallCenters24x7.local> Check out the free Log Parser from Microsoft. It's in the IIS6 resource kit, but an updated version, 2.2, was released on Jan. 19th and is available on their site. I don't have the URL handy but a search for LogParser in their Downloads should bring you right to it. Shane Miller http://www.callcenters24x7.com -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Todd Richards Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 12:28 PM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: RE: [thelist] Web server logfile analyzing software I haven't seen any responses to this, and I am also interested. My server is running Win2K3. Todd -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Vlad Alexander (XStandard) Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 10:28 AM To: thelist at lists.evolt.org Subject: [thelist] Web server logfile analyzing software Hi, can someone recommend a Web server logfile analyzing software. I am looking for a product that can analyze logs in batch mode. Thanks, -Vlad http://xstandard.com -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! -- * * Please support the community that supports you. * * http://evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ For unsubscribe and other options, including the Tip Harvester and archives of thelist go to: http://lists.evolt.org Workers of the Web, evolt ! From Ken at adOpenStatic.com Sun Feb 20 16:02:30 2005 From: Ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:02:30 +1100 Subject: [thelist] Web server logfile analyzing software Message-ID: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF201@kjserver1.kjhome.local> Not entirely sure what "batch mode" means, but can't analog do what you want as well? (www.analog.cx) Cheers Ken : -----Original Message----- : From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist- : bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Shane Miller : Subject: RE: [thelist] Web server logfile analyzing software : : Check out the free Log Parser from Microsoft. It's in the IIS6 resource : kit, but an updated version, 2.2, was released on Jan. 19th and is : available on their site. I don't have the URL handy but a search for : LogParser in their Downloads should bring you right to it. : : Shane Miller : http://www.callcenters24x7.com : : -----Original Message----- : From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org : [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Todd Richards : Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 12:28 PM : To: thelist at lists.evolt.org : Subject: RE: [thelist] Web server logfile analyzing software : : I haven't seen any responses to this, and I am also interested. My : server : is running Win2K3. : : Todd : : : : -----Original Message----- : From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org : [mailto:thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Vlad Alexander : (XStandard) : Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 10:28 AM : To: thelist at lists.evolt.org : Subject: [thelist] Web server logfile analyzing software : : Hi, can someone recommend a Web server logfile analyzing software. I am : looking for a product that can analyze logs in batch mode. : : Thanks, : -Vlad : http://xstandard.com From discuss at alphanumeric.cz Sun Feb 20 16:09:58 2005 From: discuss at alphanumeric.cz (Jan Brasna) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 23:09:58 +0100 Subject: [thelist] Web server logfile analyzing software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42190AB6.2020403@alphanumeric.cz> I personally use AWStats. Colleauges prefer eg. Webalizer or WUsage... -- Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: alphanumeric.cz | janbrasna.com Stop IE! - | From peter at easylistbox.com Sun Feb 20 16:37:08 2005 From: peter at easylistbox.com (Peter Brunone (EasyListBox.com)) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:37:08 -0700 Subject: [thelist] Web server logfile analyzing software Message-ID: <5844e417d54443f6a83661ec7d76b798@easylistbox.com> ???You might try SmarterStats (from SmarterTools); I don't know about their batch mode capabilities, but they have a great web interface so it seems you'd be able to interact with their components to do whatever?you want. Cheers, Peter From: "Todd Richards" todd at promisingsites.com I haven't seen any responses to this, and I am also interested. My server is running Win2K3. Todd -----Original Message----- From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org On Behalf Of Vlad Alexander (XStandard) Hi, can someone recommend a Web server logfile analyzing software. I am looking for a product that can analyze logs in batch mode. Thanks, -Vlad http://xstandard.com From cwhitney at islandnet.com Sun Feb 20 17:16:37 2005 From: cwhitney at islandnet.com (Carol Whitney) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:16:37 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Do you help people who know nothing at all? Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050220145719.01ec4170@pop.islandnet.com> Dear All, Well, I *almost* know nothing at all. So how basic do you get here? I know a little HTML, and a little CSS, but I get lost very quickly. I'm uisng the WebDeveloper Forums, and somebody there mentioned evolt.org, so I took a look, and love the definition of evolt. I started to try to build myself a web site, knowing truly nothing, around 1 November last year; it took me a week to try the tools at Geocities and decide (in one day) they were not for me - couldn't *stand* what they produced, and also, I had to install Sun Java! ARGH! (I'm UnComputer person to begin with; I can manage, with great effort, to learn to operate my lovely, not fancy, but quite competent, machine, given to me a year ago, running Windows XP SP2 - so now I can keep my machine clean, and use my email client, four browsers (only used IE till I started trying to build a web site), a text editor - the basics. I tried some of the tools. I'm on a constantly-eroding pension, so have no money, have to use free stuff. But I get space with my email account, and my ISP is really great - hugely helpful, as far as they can be - they don't teach web-design, though (not free, anyway). I thought at first I'd love to hire someone to build my web site, but now I'm addicted to trying to learn to do it myself, despite the incredibly sweat it is for me. I cannot STAND my layout. I've been trying to change it for a long time (relatively speaking, of course). I see I have too much on one page - my Home Page, for instance. The fonts are all too big (though I go for big fonts because my vision is rotten). (Just learned today I could control that with CSS.) I need to make sub-pages for my Home page, and plan numbers for my Articles page, plan to reorganize my photo galleries, and re-shape the styling some. Here's what I want on my (personal-only) site: Not a table to be seen - all CSS. No Javascript. (If later, I want to do stuff that requires either, *then* I'll gladly bend on that one, but until I need it, I want to use CSS for everything - oh, well, with HTML, of course.) I'm going for HTML 4.01 Strict - forget XHTML for the time being. I don't want to use any of the tools, because I don't understand the code if I do use tools, and I truly need, I think, to understand the code if I'm really to learn, so my text editor is what I'm using. Is that a sufficient introduction to give an idea of where I'm going, where I'd like to go? And to find out if anybody here offers assistance to such beginininininininers? I do have Paint Shop Pro 8, and am doing all my own graphics; I'm not all that skilled with the program, but not too bad with it. I have no working printer, so am simply not worrying about printer-friendly stuff; can't test it anyway. I might do that everntually; for now, it's just visual formatting. Although there's a bit of content on my site, it's relatively small; I have tons on of work to do - I want to get the structure and layout right before I tackle the content. Oh, I would so like to get past my layout hurdles! My problem is, I can parrot okay - that is, copy code. But then I don't know how to alter it to suit my needs! I'm learning slowly, very slowly, partly because what I'm learning isn't unified; I'm learning in bits and pieces, and when I get stuck, I don't know where to go next. There's a page on my site that sketches a general idea of what I'd like the layout to look like; it's at: http://www.coherentdog.org/layout.htm I've been playing with tutorials from MaxDesign (stuff by Russ Weakley) - interesting stuff - but while they seem useful to me, and I'm maybe learning something, I'm too new to it all, and I get lost very, very easily, in my sea of disorientation. Thanks in advance for any direction from anybody here. If what I'm asking is too basic, I'll read with pleasure anyway. I'm used to reading way ahead of myself; I find that eventually I learn some stuff that way. Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:16:26 Carol Whitney *** I receive plain text only. To attach a file, notify me first. *** From technique at oceanicsky.com Sun Feb 20 17:28:14 2005 From: technique at oceanicsky.com (David Siedband) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:28:14 -0800 Subject: [thelist] marking up titles for definition lists Message-ID: <5cbec1b79080a4b0c3786613e7d97b5e@oceanicsky.com> What are the best practices for marking up titles of definition lists? I have a page with several d-lists and I want to associate them with their titles. Something like the way a definition wraps the content of the

would be excellent. This is what I'm using at the moment:

Surfing Terms

Dawn Patrol: An early morning surf session.
Evening Glass: A late afternoon surf session.

Validation fails if I nest the

inside the
is there a better way to tag this? -- David Siedband generation-xml.com From lists at neptunewebworks.com Sun Feb 20 17:50:43 2005 From: lists at neptunewebworks.com (Maximillian Schwanekamp) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:50:43 -0800 Subject: [thelist] marking up titles for definition lists In-Reply-To: <5cbec1b79080a4b0c3786613e7d97b5e@oceanicsky.com> References: <5cbec1b79080a4b0c3786613e7d97b5e@oceanicsky.com> Message-ID: <42192253.8000108@neptunewebworks.com> David Siedband wrote: > What are the best practices for marking up titles of definition lists? >
Surfing Terms
>
... > is there a better way to tag this? Assuming you have an h1 somewhere above that h2 (e.g.
About Surfing
), IMHO your markup is ideal. If you want it to visually look like the legend/fieldset combo, you could put a border on
and give a negative bottom-margin to the h2 (or a negative top-margin on the dl). -- Maximillian Von Schwanekamp http://www.neptunewebworks.com/ From keith at digital-crew.com Sun Feb 20 17:53:36 2005 From: keith at digital-crew.com (Keith Gaughan) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 23:53:36 +0000 Subject: [thelist] marking up titles for definition lists In-Reply-To: <5cbec1b79080a4b0c3786613e7d97b5e@oceanicsky.com> References: <5cbec1b79080a4b0c3786613e7d97b5e@oceanicsky.com> Message-ID: <42192300.1020600@digital-crew.com> David Siedband wrote: > What are the best practices for marking up titles of definition lists? > I have a page with several d-lists and I want to associate them with > their titles. Something like the way a definition wraps the > content of the
would be excellent. > > This is what I'm using at the moment: > >
Surfing Terms
>
>
Dawn Patrol
>
An early morning surf session.
>
Evening Glass
>
A late afternoon surf session.
>
No, what you've got there is just fine. Everything under a header as far as the next header of the same or higher level is considered part of the same group. At least that's what I think you mean. K. From lists at onlinetools.org Sun Feb 20 18:28:28 2005 From: lists at onlinetools.org (Christian Heilmann) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 00:28:28 +0000 Subject: [thelist] marking up titles for definition lists In-Reply-To: <5cbec1b79080a4b0c3786613e7d97b5e@oceanicsky.com> References: <5cbec1b79080a4b0c3786613e7d97b5e@oceanicsky.com> Message-ID: <42192B2C.9000404@onlinetools.org> David Siedband wrote: > What are the best practices for marking up titles of definition > lists? I have a page with several d-lists and I want to associate > them with their titles. Something like the way a definition > wraps the content of the
would be excellent. > > This is what I'm using at the moment: > >
Surfing Terms
>
>
Dawn Patrol
>
An early morning surf session.
>
Evening Glass
>
A late afternoon surf session.
>
> > Validation fails if I nest the
inside the
> > is there a better way to tag this? Sadly enough, no. One of the big mistakes of the HTML specs is that the headlines don't incorporate their connected elements but preceed them. One option would be to nest the lot in one unnumbered list (including the headlines and the DLs in an LI each). XHTML2 is planned to have a
and to work around that. We'll be fine in 2030 when all browsers support it. From joshua at waetech.com Sun Feb 20 17:58:53 2005 From: joshua at waetech.com (Joshua Olson) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:58:53 -0500 Subject: [thelist] Do you help people who know nothing at all? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050220145719.01ec4170@pop.islandnet.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Carol Whitney > Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 6:17 PM > Subject: [thelist] Do you help people who know nothing at all? Carol, You asked three questions in your post: 1. Do you help people who know nothing at all? 2. So how basic do you get here? 3 (and 3.5). Is that a sufficient introduction to give an idea of where I'm going, where I'd like to go? 4. And to find out if anybody here offers assistance to such beginininininininers? I'm going to take a moment to answer the questions that are truly answerable. The answer to question #1 is that yes, we do, as a collective group, answer questions from anybody. You'll find, however, that some questions spawn more answers than others. Generally I find that specific questions garner more responses than broad questions. Posters who listen to responses and actually try them out tend to get more responses too. The answer to question #2 is that we go all the way to the bottom floor if necessary. I've found that there are some more complicated questions that this group generally doesn't answer, but almost all basic questions get answered many times over--sometimes with surprising variation. The slower the mail server is pumping out emails, the more responses you'll usually see. :-) The other 2 questions I'll leave to someone else, <><><><><><><><><><> Joshua Olson Web Application Engineer WAE Tech Inc. http://www.waetech.com/service_areas/ 706.210.0168 From harvester at lists.evolt.org Sun Feb 20 18:00:15 2005 From: harvester at lists.evolt.org (harvester at lists.evolt.org) Date: 21 Feb 2005 00:00:15 -0000 Subject: [thelist] Tip Harvest for the Week of Monday Feb 14, 2005 Message-ID: <20050221000015.17302.qmail@acornparenting.org> The tip harvest for the Week of Monday Feb 14, 2005 has been added to the lists.evolt.org site. Get it at: http://lists.evolt.org/harvest/show.cgi?w=20050214 Week at a glance listing at: http://lists.evolt.org/harvest/week.cgi?w=20050214 Harvest Summary --------------- Number of messages: 213 Number of tips : 1 Tip Authors ----------- Max Schwanekamp (1) Tip Types --------- MySQL 4 Query Caching (1) From mattias at inreach.com Sun Feb 20 19:23:36 2005 From: mattias at inreach.com (Mattias Thorslund) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 17:23:36 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Do you help people who know nothing at all? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050220145719.01ec4170@pop.islandnet.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050220145719.01ec4170@pop.islandnet.com> Message-ID: <42193818.1090909@inreach.com> Carol, Well, I think any level of question is okay - this is a really friendly and broad-scoped list. The level of advice will generally correspond with the level of the question - basic questions will get basic answers :-) The first question would be: What would you like to do with your web site? Provide informational and ever-growing pages of 'timeless' nature so that people can learn about your subject - dogs, right? Or would you like to write quick notes on your latest discoveries/funny stories/comments (emphasis on "quick notes" - what you publish is up to you). Would you like to allow visitors to easily leave comments on your web site? Or, maybe you want to host a discussion forum about your favorite subject? Maybe all of the above - but it can still grow one step at the time. You say you're a beginner and non-computer person but still you seem to want to build a site from scratch. Perhaps you haven't yet taken a look at the many freely available web-publishing tools that can make your life a lot easier. Take a look at http://www.opensourcecms.com/. Okay, that's plenty enough of choices to make my head spin... Which ones are the best ones? That's a great question to ask here - just let us know what you're looking for. Right now, I have been using a web portal package called Exponent (http://www.exponentcms.org/), which my "user" loves. We'll use it to put content on our "corporate" web site, customizing the layout. I also use the blog software package called WordPress (http://www.wordpress.org/), which is really handy for posting quick notes. i.e. blogs. There is absolutely no harm in knowing the details of HTML and CSS (in fact it is always useful, even when publishing with a tool), but ask yourself what you would feel most comfortable with yourself? Many of these packages come with templates for layouts, but they can usually be customized (so your HTML/CSS efforts weren't in vain - you can still have the layout you want). Still, you won't have to worry about HTML once you're posting new pages or stories to your site - unless you really want to. What these packages will do for you is manage your text and pictures in a way that is easier in the long run than "plain" HTML pages. A 'plain' site becomes more of a 'pain' the longer you use it, because each new page will probably turn out a little different from the previous one, and then you will want to update the old ones to look like the latest one. Or, you want to change something that's on ALL your pages and you have to change each one - easy if you have five pages, but tedious when you have 25. And depending on your web host, you'll have to FTP the pages from your computer to the web server. Generally, these are server-side packages that run a scripting language (such as PHP) and use a database engine to store your (suer-supplied) data, so you would upload them to the host server (unless you find a host provides a pre-installed CMS package). There's generally no need to learn PHP to do this - the instructions on how to upload and install the software should come with the package. There is hosting available on the internet that fits these requirements starting at $4-5/month. It will allow for a modest amount of traffic, but it will probably go a long way for a new site anyway - it takes time and lots of work to increase the traffic. I hope this is helpful, Good luck! Mattias Thorslund Carol Whitney wrote: > Dear All, > > Well, I almost know nothing at all. So how basic do you get here? I > know a little HTML, and a little CSS, but I get lost very quickly. I'm > uisng the WebDeveloper Forums, and somebody there mentioned evolt.org, > so I took a look, and love the definition of evolt. (snip) -- More views at http://www.thorslund.us From cwhitney at islandnet.com Sun Feb 20 20:02:58 2005 From: cwhitney at islandnet.com (Carol Whitney) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:02:58 -0800 Subject: [thelist] RE: Do you help people who know nothing at all? References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050220145719.01ec4170@pop.islandnet.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050220174918.01ed94b0@pop.islandnet.com> At 18:58 05-02-20 -0500, Joshua Olson wrote: >I'm going to take a moment to answer the questions that are truly >answerable. ; thanks! >The answer to question #1 is that yes, we do, as a collective group, >answer questions from anybody. You'll find, however, that some >questions spawn more answers than others. That makes sense to me. > Generally I find that specific questions garner >more responses than broad questions. That makes sense to me too. The trick, though, is to learn enough to ask the question. Now that you've assured me extremely basic questions are okay to ask, I will have a few, which I'll try to take one at a time, if I can figure out what they are. I'm sure I'll remember some of them as I continue my efforts. > Posters who listen to responses and >actually try them out tend to get more responses too. I've been doing that the last few days, in response to help from the WebDeveloper Forums. I was going to update stuff on my site about that, but I got quite lost in my efforts, which I'm still pursuing. >The answer to question #2 is that we go all the way to the bottom >floor if necessary. Wow. That is very, very generous of you. Something about the evolt.org site suggested to me that was a possibility, though. > I've found that there are some more complicated questions that >this group generally doesn't answer, but almost all basic questions get >answered many times over--sometimes with surprising variation. The >slower the mail server is pumping out emails, the more responses >you'll usually see. :-) I like your sense of humor; it strikes me as rather like mine in some ways. I just subscribed here yesterday, and I note the availability of list-archives, so will peruse them also, but not at the expense of continuing my efforts, which means I'll be going back and forth between efforts and browsing for help! >The other 2 questions I'll leave to someone else, > ><><><><><><><><><><> >Joshua Olson ASCII ART! love it. >Web Application Engineer >WAE Tech Inc. >http://www.waetech.com/service_areas/ Among other things, I'm following links to web sites shown here; that can be fascinating. Talk about SKILL! Looks gorgeous! Thanks for your help, Joshua. I'll be back with questions. Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:02:49 Carol W. * I receive plain text only. To attach a file, notify me first. * From vaspersthegrate at yahoo.com Sun Feb 20 20:21:17 2005 From: vaspersthegrate at yahoo.com (Steven Streight) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:21:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [thelist] RE: do you help people who know nothing at all? Message-ID: <20050221022117.38296.qmail@web53504.mail.yahoo.com> My question to Carol who asks how she can quickly and easily master enough web design to produce a decent web site to accomplish her goal... ...what is your goal? I also think the answer to her general question is "NO". There is no fast, easy, hurry up and build a web site type method. The experienced web developers on this list, who have a much more intimate grasp of this whole topic than I, will have to step and either support or denounce my opinion here. But I'm a web usability analyst, and I sometimes see problems in web sites. It keeps me humble knowing that these problems are not always very easy to fix, and that it's not necessarily the web designer's fault. There are many constraints, budget considerations, conflicting corporate objectives, web site host limitations, etc. I guess I'm reacting to what I see as a Get Web Site Quick mentality here. You have to, I think, be willing to slow down, take the time and effort to learn what you need, in a logical systematic manner, whether books, online tutes, whatever. I suggest using a free Blogspot blog from www.blogger.com You could probably accomplish whatever you want, fast, easy, fairly nicely. You can tinker with it. You can change templates. You can slowly learn how to alter the template code, but avoid major catastrophes. I have a Zero Budget Marketing orientation myself. I am disabled and cannot afford a whole lot right now, but I'm not starving either. So I do relate to your plight. That's why I try to see what can be done on the web, with very little to no expense. Then when a client comes to me with a huge budget, I can say, look at all that can be done for free or low cost. It's an experiment that seems to be successful. Hope this meandering helps a little. Buy Stephen Spainhour & Robert Eckstein's "Webmaster in a Nutshell" (O'Reilly), Jakob Nielsen's "Designing Web Usability" (Peach Pit/New Riders), and Thomas Powell's "Web Design: The Complete Reference" (Osbourne/McGraw-Hill) ===== Steven Streight Web Usability Analyst & Content Writer Blogologist Digital Media Artist Virtual Instrument Music Composer http://www.vaspersthegrate.blogspot.com http://www.streightsite.blogspot.com http://www.arttestexplosion.blogspot.com EMAIL: vaspersthegrate at yahoo.com Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From vaspersthegrate at yahoo.com Sun Feb 20 21:46:24 2005 From: vaspersthegrate at yahoo.com (Steven Streight) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:46:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [thelist] RE: this operation timed out Message-ID: <20050221034624.63089.qmail@web53510.mail.yahoo.com> When my browser presents me with a message: "Alert! This operation timed out when attempting to contact [URL]." What does this generally refer to? I am supposing that it means my internet connection has disconnected. Usually during a disconnect, an orange MSN tab at bottom of browser chrome starts flashing. But not always. I'm on MSN dial-up and considering a change. Today, I've been disconnected about 8 times, and it's 4 times within one minute, then time passes, then another 4 times within two minutes. Strange. Server overload due to people shopping or surfing the information superhighway? ===== Steven Streight Web Usability Analyst & Content Writer Blogologist Digital Media Artist Virtual Instrument Music Composer http://www.vaspersthegrate.blogspot.com http://www.streightsite.blogspot.com http://www.arttestexplosion.blogspot.com EMAIL: vaspersthegrate at yahoo.com ________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From cwhitney at islandnet.com Sun Feb 20 21:53:17 2005 From: cwhitney at islandnet.com (Carol Whitney) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:53:17 -0800 Subject: [thelist] Re: do you help people who know nothing at all? In-Reply-To: <20050221022117.38296.qmail@web53504.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050221022117.38296.qmail@web53504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050220192055.01f5c568@pop.islandnet.com> At 18:21 05-02-20 -0800, Steven Streight wrote: >My question to Carol who asks how she can quickly and >easily master enough web design to produce a decent >web site to accomplish her goal... > >...what is your goal? Good question . Good idea for me to try to define it. I'll have to be careful, though, so as not to write a book to say what my goal is; that wouldn't be appropriate for an email list Maybe I could make a tiny sketch (in writing), though. >I also think the answer to her general question is >"NO". > >There is no fast, easy, hurry up and build a web site >type method. Well-said. I hope I havent' fallen into that trap. Well, the Geocities approach suggests you can do it, but the results look that way - ugly as sin. >The experienced web developers on this list, who have >a much more intimate grasp of this whole topic than I, >will have to step and either support or denounce my >opinion here. I could hope they'd support it; I expect each has spent lots and lots of time in study, probably researrch as well, not to mention practice! >But I'm a web usability analyst, You ARE? Great! I might have questions specifically for you, later on. I'm keeping accessibility in mind, but am helpless to do much about it right now. Still, I'm changing from HTML 4.01 Transistional, which is what the web tools I started with put together for me, to Strict, with accessibility in mind. I know almost nothing about it, but plan to learn. > and I sometimes see >problems in web sites. It keeps me humble knowing that >these problems are not always very easy to fix, and >that it's not necessarily the web designer's fault. Interesting. Your perspectives are helpful to me - gives me more to think about. >There are many constraints, budget considerations, >conflicting corporate objectives, web site host >limitations, etc. My limititations, besides money, are time, but I have a fair amount of that, being retired. >I guess I'm reacting to what I see as a Get Web Site >Quick mentality here. - well, I'm a Terrier by nature - a bit obsessive - want to learn, learn, learn, and do it fast . So I take your point; thanks! >You have to, I think, be willing to slow down, take >the time and effort to learn what you need, in a >logical systematic manner, whether books, online >tutes, whatever. Well, my difficulty there is in finding tutorials or other resources I can understand well enough to be systematic. Even the very good tutorials at MaxDesign are too much for me in some ways; I don't really follow them very well. I thought I understood the FloatTutorial quite well, but when I tried to apply it, I failed. The result is posted on my site, Funnneeeee! My problem is, I'm not sure what I do and don't understand . But I will, one day, get there, I trust. There was one book that really did get me started: _The Complete Idiot's Guide to Creating a Web Page_. That book saved me many months, I'm sure, of really useless sweat - getting nowhere fast. Help people have offered so far has helped in one way or another, but so far, nothing unified; I'd have to hire a coach, probably, to get any kind of unified picture. >I suggest using a free Blogspot blog from >www.blogger.com Thanks! I'll go have a look. >You could probably accomplish whatever you want, fast, >easy, fairly nicely. You can tinker with it. You can >change templates. You can slowly learn how to alter >the template code, but avoid major catastrophes. Sounds great! I tried some of the W3Schools TryIt things, and learned a little that way, and will go back there again. I even tackled the W3C site. Most of it is still way beyond me, but some of the examples help. I begin to understand little bits here and there. >I have a Zero Budget Marketing orientation myself. I >am disabled and cannot afford a whole lot right now, >but I'm not starving either. So I do relate to your >plight. That's why I try to see what can be done on >the web, with very little to no expense. Somebody on the WebDeveloper Forums suggested I look for free software, saying often the free stuff is of the best. Of course, it appears evolt.org is along these lines, also. >Then when a client comes to me with a huge budget, I >can say, look at all that can be done for free or low >cost. It's an experiment that seems to be successful. Wonderful! >Hope this meandering helps a little. It does - thanks a lot! >Buy Stephen Spainhour & Robert Eckstein's "Webmaster >in a Nutshell" (O'Reilly), Jakob Nielsen's "Designing >Web Usability" (Peach Pit/New Riders), and Thomas >Powell's "Web Design: The Complete Reference" >(Osbourne/McGraw-Hill) No buy. I ration my food. Maybe the library. I've also been refereed to Zeldman, Cederholm, and Castro. I'd love to have those books! I'll try the library - well, I did, but it's a small, rural library; I'll have to try for interlibrary loan. > Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:53:07 Carol W. * I receive plain text only. To attach a file, notify me first. * From Ken at adOpenStatic.com Sun Feb 20 23:26:15 2005 From: Ken at adOpenStatic.com (Ken Schaefer) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:26:15 +1100 Subject: [thelist] RE: this operation timed out Message-ID: <160489103479AB4892187638EE7D1E690EF204@kjserver1.kjhome.local> There's a network connectivity issue somewhere. Basically it means that your client (e.g. your web browser) has given up waiting for a response from the remote server. Either the remote server is not responding, or the packets/signals are not getting from your computer to the remote server and back again. You may wish to contact your ISP to see if they are having any issues... Cheers Ken : -----Original Message----- : From: thelist-bounces at lists.evolt.org [mailto:thelist- : bounces at lists.evolt.org] On Behalf Of Steven Streight : Sent: Monday, 21 February 2005 2:46 PM : To: thelist at lists.evolt.org : Subject: [thelist] RE: this operation timed out : : When my browser presents me with a message: "Alert! : This operation timed out when attempting to contact : [URL]." : : What does this generally refer to? : : I am supposing that it means my internet connection : has disconnected. Usually during a disconnect, an : orange MSN tab at bottom of browser chrome starts : flashing. But not always. : : I'm on MSN dial-up and considering a change. Today, : I've been disconnected about 8 times, and it's 4 times : within one minute, then time passes, then another 4 : times within two minutes. Strange. : : Server overload due to people shopping or surfing the : information superhighway?